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  1. TopTop #61
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by occihoff: View Post
    Huh?? And are all those Time covers actual? I don't get Time.
    there's a whole line of trumpy whining saying "They didn't treat Obama this way" or "they didn't investigate Hillary as much" (not true, btw) but that happens to ignore that you often get the treatment you earn. It's not like the MSM is willfully ignoring all Trump's admirable traits and covering up Obama's uncivilized behavior. He did get slammed for his tan suit. And on a more serious note, got plenty of criticism for not standing up to the banks and for his willingness to use killer drones.
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  3. TopTop #62
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by occihoff: View Post
    ...I had always presumed that Bernie simply wanted to differentiate "democratic socialism" from the authoritarian so called "socialism" or "communism" we see in Russia and China. If it's "democratic," presumably that means the citizens have the power to make it be how they want it to be. No?

    And "Democratic Socialist sounds better" than what?
    ok, the label is not equivalent to a body of law. Call him what you want. It's a fun angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate to a large extent. The questions really are: what policies does he want & what policies will he actually get. The ship won't be turning in any hurry no matter what the pilot wants it to do.
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  5. TopTop #63
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn: View Post
    It would be illuminating if you provided some links, Cyb.
    It's gratifying that you've chosen to give me some gratitude via post #60
    But it appears the readers digest version is not satisfying the powers that are.
    So here you go.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy
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  7. TopTop #64
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020










    Last edited by Barry; 02-25-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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  9. TopTop #65
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020


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  11. TopTop #66
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

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  12. TopTop #67
    occihoff's Avatar
    occihoff
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Yes, your point about turning the ship is so important and generally overlooked. And no president can simply "turn the ship" without Congress. It's a matter of having the right intent and influencing things in that direction.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    ok, the label is not equivalent to a body of law. Call him what you want. It's a fun angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate to a large extent. The questions really are: what policies does he want & what policies will he actually get. The ship won't be turning in any hurry no matter what the pilot wants it to do.
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  13. TopTop #68
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020












    Last edited by Barry; 02-26-2020 at 01:55 PM.
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  15. TopTop #69
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020






    Last edited by Barry; 02-27-2020 at 11:31 AM.
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  17. TopTop #70
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020























































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  19. TopTop #71
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020


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  21. TopTop #72
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020





    Last edited by Barry; 02-28-2020 at 12:43 PM.
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  23. TopTop #73
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020













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  25. TopTop #74
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

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    Man, this obsession on the right with people's presumed desire for "free stuff" really baffles me. It strikes me as projection of some perverse sort. It triggers the same reaction in me that their obsession with bathroom laws does. Why do they care so much?

    I don't have any examples of someone objecting to free roads, fire, police, etc. It seems weird that they keep going to this for some things and not others
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  27. TopTop #75
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    Man, this obsession on the right with people's presumed desire for "free stuff" really baffles me. ...
    Maybe because the Right can't believe that the Left can be so naive. "free stuff" isn't free.

    Name:  Bernie free stuff.jpg
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  29. TopTop #76
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020



























    [ that is ... if he loses! ~ B]

















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  31. TopTop #77
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post
    Maybe because the Right can't believe that the Left can be so naive. "free stuff" isn't free
    the whole thing is an artificial construct. It's predicated on the idea that the left is all about the free stuff, and after taking that fake construct as a given, extends it by claiming they don't understand that there's a cost involved.

    It's really tedious because first, the right is all about pushing costs on to the society at large, and treating attempts at making them pay those costs via regulation as some sort of theft. When in fact, they're stealing from everyone by using what should be common resources. "Ownership" is at the heart of much of the conservative's world view, with right of ownership being treated as if it's right there in Jesus' speeches. They go to great lengths to preserve the ability of those who've exploited something first to keep doing it forever. And they accuse others of seeking free stuff?? The Clive Bundy gang with their sheep on public land are perfect caricatures of this.
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  33. TopTop #78
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by podfish: View Post
    the whole thing is an artificial construct. It's predicated on the idea that the left is all about the free stuff, and after taking that fake construct as a given, extends it by claiming they don't understand that there's a cost involved.

    It's really tedious because first,.
    I just saw a Bernie interview where he admitted the MFA would cost about 30T (that's trillion). When pressed by CNN, he wouldn't admit any other figures. His website itemizes and the total is 100+T. Scary. Free stuff really isn't free, it doesn't add up. Can anyone visualize 100 trillion dollars, I can't.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-29-2020 at 01:36 AM.
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  34. TopTop #79
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post
    ... Free stuff really isn't free, it doesn't add up. Can anyone visualize 100 trillion dollars, I can't.
    to reiterate, this "free stuff" lens is a creation of the right. The idea that costs are born by the society instead of by individuals doesn't equate to 'free stuff'. It's just that if society bears the costs for all citizens, we probably can't save money as a group by refusing to give care to anyone. That's what the current system is based on -- rationing by ability to pay. Doesn't seem any more fair than rationing by dart-board.
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  36. TopTop #80
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    But 100T puts the lie to just taxing the haves to fund free programs. Heck, instead of taxing you could just take 100% of their wealth and it still wouldn't fly. A trillion (times 100) is just too big. Latest I heard is that Bernie just doesn't care about the details. He will print money and explode the national debt like never before.
    Last edited by Barry; 02-29-2020 at 01:38 AM.
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  37. TopTop #81
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    It will cost what it will cost, but there are several reasons, which I'm sure you can think of, why it will end up being cheaper than a system with a dozen different insurance companies and pharma charging whatever the traffic will bear. It will avoid the uncertainties of the present "system" with its heartaches and bankruptcies. Most of the industrialized world have similar systems and they all work out to be cheaper and better than what we have now. Is there a part of the above that you find to be inaccurate?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post
    But 100T puts the lie to just taxing the haves to fund free programs. Heck, instead of taxing you could just take 100% of their wealth and it still wouldn't fly. ...
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  39. TopTop #82
    ray50sfo
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020







    Last edited by Barry; 03-01-2020 at 09:24 AM.
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  41. TopTop #83
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by phredo: View Post
    It will cost what it will cost, but there are several reasons, which I'm sure you can think of, why it will end up being cheaper than a system with a dozen different insurance companies and pharma charging whatever the traffic will bear. It will avoid the uncertainties of the present "system" with its heartaches and bankruptcies. Most of the industrialized world have similar systems and they all work out to be cheaper and better than what we have now. Is there a part of the above that you find to be inaccurate?
    I just feel Bernie is not being fully truthful. Seems to me that I'm getting conned. His website lists more details than he is willing to mention in interviews. I'm not comfortable when he won't state specifics of his tax increases and just where 100T is coming from. "It will be cheaper" doesn't cut it for me. Increased taxes are going to save me money? Sorry Bernie, I'll need more specifics before I buy that bridgeName:  Bernie BS.JPG
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  42. TopTop #84
    phredo's Avatar
    phredo
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Well, I was talking about the money side of it, which I guess you are too. I'll try to put it another way. If one decides that everyone "deserves" quality health and dental care, it's going to cost something to provide that. The argument for a more socialized medical system, as far as costs go, is that there are big savings to be had by having a single payer with everyone covered, because it saves a lot of costs through economy of scale, no need for advertising competing interests, clients getting needs met in a timely fashion, less productivity loss from clients going bankrupt, losing their homes, etc., drug company gouging, and more. So why would it not be cheaper? The only costs I can think of one could balance against all that are if the big tent method would be less efficient because of lack of competition causing laziness and slack in the system. But that sounds small in comparison to all the cost benefits, and, in fact, Medicare seems to have proved itself to be rather efficient.

    Now, besides the money side of it, there are a whole lot of other issues. One is, does anyone actually "deserve" health care? Libertarians say, no, there isn't much anyone deserves except the right to be left alone by their neighbors and especially the government. Medicare For All fits right into the middle of discussions about people's rights, the welfare/nanny state, whether people are happier when they successfully fend for themselves balanced against how unhappy they are when they're not successful. Also, isn't the general level of happiness going to be raised by a lot to not have the anxiety of how to pay for medical and dental care? But a lot of socialized medicine, or socialized anything, for that matter, usually involves the richer people paying more than what would be their actual cost to cover the less rich It's all a really big discussion.

    A related issue is, is it really a good idea to "put all our eggs in one basket" by having the government taking care of all our medical needs? Maybe it would work out well under some circumstances, but what if a government is dedicated to austerity and cutting cost? What would happen to the health care then? And, similarly, just ask someone who is middle class or richer in a place like Mexico whether they'd rather be treated in the government hospital or a private one and see what answer you get. But, again, balance that against the generally satisfied clients in places like Canada and Scandinavia. So that's another big issue that doesn't have to do with cost.

    Another issue is, how do we get from "here to there"? Who in Congress will vote for Medicare For All? Maybe it would take years to get a Congress that would agree. What happens in the meantime -- would Bernie sign a bill to improve Obamacare?

    So I recognize there are many issues and problems, and we all have our ideas and opinions about all of them, I imagine, but it just seems to me that the actual cost of Medicare For All.has a fairly straightforward answer, because, in my opinion, it just has to work out to be a lot cheaper than the present payment method.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post
    I just feel Bernie is not being fully truthful. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 03-01-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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  44. TopTop #85
    wisewomn's Avatar
    wisewomn
     

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Apparently, it IS free if you're a bank, or a corporation, or Big Pharma, or a tech giant, etc. They don't even have to pay taxes to cover their bailouts. It's the rest of us who do.

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post
    Maybe because the Right can't believe that the Left can be so naive. "free stuff" isn't free.
    Last edited by Barry; 03-01-2020 at 09:32 AM.
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  46. TopTop #86
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

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  48. TopTop #87
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Isn't this how Tump won?

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil: View Post

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  50. TopTop #88
    cyberanvil
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    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    Quote Posted in reply to the post by Barry: View Post
    Isn't this how Tump won?
    Ha Ha. Ouch!
    Well, he was the first to mention "the Swamp." To be fair there are Swampies on both sides of the isle.
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  52. TopTop #89
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: Best of Political Humor - February 2020

    If you have been getting individual email updates of our ongoing curation of the best in political humor and you'd like them to continue, then go to the new thread for March and click "Express your Gratitude for this Post" (not on this post) and that will let me know you appreciate them and continue your subscription for this month

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