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  1. TopTop #1
    infojockey's Avatar

    Occupy Wall St. Means Wall St. and Fascist Headquarters - Banks, Bankers, Banking

    How did the Occupy Wall St. movement get itself deflected from targeting the brain of the Beast to targeting the Beast's butt? Occupy Sonoma County is now a co-opted entity that has abandoned its laudable founding principles- raising awareness of the globalist crypto-Nazi Wall St. - City of London financier debt farmer oligarchy in favor of environmentalism as a Marxist postmodernist critical theory battering ram against kapital. My observation is that the kapital that Marxism attacks is emphatically not capitalism, but rather, should be termed "monopolism", a concept that itself is anti-capitalist. Below is a conversation I am in the middle of with Kamyan Nayeri who is agitating for a strict Marxist party line in Occupy Sonoma County's agenda.

    Walter Alter, [05.09.19 12:18]
    >>PS. I am entirely serious that the Sonoma Country climate groups need to have public speaking venues for ideas such as mine to be aired and discussed. It will help the group as well as invite newcomers.

    On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 9:31 AM Walter Alter wrote:

    You are going to have a difficult time keeping the 3rd World nations from developing industrially and wishing to enjoy the same standard of living that we enjoy. China and Russia under socialism were utterly out of control environmentally; North Korea under socialism continues to face chronic starvation. The status of the Aral Sea as a result of socialilst state mandated cash crop cotton farming, illustrates my point. The obvious upheavals of any coerced shift to socialist economics in the West are not easy for us technological comfort junkies to contemplate.

    CO2 production can be somewhat controlled in the industrialized nations, but how do you plan to shut down CO2 production in developing nations without force of arms? The islands of plastic in the Pacific Ocean are mainly oriental and South American in origin. How do you plan to curb 3rd World industrial development without having them repudiate Western designed environmental controls as India and China did to the Kyoto Accords, precisely because they and others saw their hopes for becoming a modern nation on the chopping block? My point, anti-capitalism is not going to be a winning strategy outside western Europe and the US.

    I am troubled by the demonization of kapital, the economic system that produced the technology I'm typing on right now. The demonization of kapital will become a ball and chain to this movement. What you really want to wish for is the overthrow of MONOPOLISM. Monopolism looks like kapital, but it is two things that kapital is not - 1) it destroys free competition in favor of cartels and state granted monopolies, i.e. it is state dictated fascism or a mafia, 2) it controls the debts of nations via the IMF, The BIS and World Bank and forces them into ruinous agricultural and mineral policies as collateral to their borrowing. The burning of the rain forests of Brazil is a direct result of debt economics - cheap land turned to cattle farming to supply Burger King - cash crop farming, which is destroying the ecosystems of the 3rd World.

    Slogans and sound bite generated passion is short term localized thinking. 90% of ecologists have little sense as to the casuative nature of Wall St. investment bank globalist debt farming upon ruinous environmental degradation. Occupy began as such an awareness but was co-opted by the usual distractive litany of progressive issues. Money flow is the substrate to all environmental disorder. We know this, yet fall for the smoke and mirrors again and again. Without an adequate understanding of money dynamics we will continue to be fooled by the waving red cape. Until the banker oligarchy is attacked directly and its personnel and their clandestine aristocratico-Nazi plantation policies outed, I fear that this movement will continue to be frustrated and enraged and easily panicked into inefectuality. If globalist debt banking is not attacked by us, then we are, de facto, its allies

    Walter Alter, [05.09.19 12:19]
    >>I agree with your the developing countries need to develop--with the caveat--not capitalistically and sustainably.

    A lot of my advocacy is based on choices that are a bit ambivalent. I don't want to sound like a cheer leader of unbridled capitalism or unbridled anything because a lot of issues out there are not black and white, rather, they often follow a 51%-49% kind of evaluation. But capitalism is hugely productive and delivers plenitude across a lot of fronts that enhance life and mind. Much of my analysis is based upon potential. Remember back when the 1960's Summer of Love morphed into the "human potential movement"? I do, and discovered much of that potential, as did many of my contemporaries, in the observations of Buckminster Fuller. His "Ideas and Integrities" was a bible to me then and still is, tho much amplified and brought up to date. His take was the the carrying power of the planet was near infinite if subjected to a design science revolution. We see spinoffs of this design science revolution in the large by way of digital technology and at street level in the small is beautiful mantra of Stewart Brand and the Whole Earth Catalog philosophy, such as the tiny house movement, the permaculture movement and the many low tech innovations aimed at reducing 3rd World toil, discomfort and disease.

    So I champion capitalism over Marxist economics, but barely, lol! I'm an ex-Marxist and am such because we have too many modern examples of the failure of Marxist demand economies. Pointing to the Scandanvian example is not pointing at socialism, it is pointing at welfare state capitalism since no part of the Scandinavian economies are owned by the state or workers committees or communes or anarchist syndicates. All the wealth that goes into their social programs is derived by capitalist surplus wealth production. The Scandinavian example is good to study and emulate, but it should not be termed socialist or used as an example of socialism at work. What we see when we look at socialism at work is poverty and privation, police state extortion of labor, the creation of a privileged nomenclatura ruling class, the rise of black markets and a stagnation of initiative and problem solving. The Maoist "Great Leap Forward" towards decentralized industrial production was a cosmic failure, which caused a doubt and disquiet that resulted in the "Cultural Revolution" which was the grisly pattern for Pol Pot's Cambodian "killing fields". Lenin's battle cry of "The ends justify the means" is, in fact, the psychopath's rationale for the causing of misery and represents, not the dictatorship of the proletariat, but the dictatorship of ideology over logic and humaneness.

    >>However, if you look at the wealth and income distribution worldwide you will see that a tiny majority appropriates almost half of the world GDP each year. Thus, we can cut back drastically by getting rid wealth accumulating economic activities (but that will require going against capitalism)

    Walter Alter, [05.09.19 12:19]
    Yes, and this is because of the clandestine dictatorship of the modern day British East India Company, expanded to global scale as the social Darwinist fascist culture of the ruling class. The modern day British East India Company is dispersed somewhat into the boardrooms of investment banking around the world with headquarters on Wall St. and Threadneedle St., London, but as well in Brussels, Berlin, Zurich and other banking centers. What is the source of global debt farming for these banker crypto-Nazis if not the mineral and agricultural wealth of those who cannot defend their economic integrity from predator loan shark mafias? Their control lines, personnel lists, nested corporate ownership hierarchies and henchmen are, thanks to Internet technology, available for the world to see and they know it. Because of this rapidly accumulating knowledge about how they forcefully take and wield their power, they are beginning to go into panic mode and create crises where none need to exist, particularly in the middle east under our various punitive expeditions to the region exacerbated by our misconceived and miscarried "Arab Spring" adventure.

    >>Also, I agree with you about the catastrophic environmental policies of the so-called "Communist" regimes in the former Soviet Union (also Eastern Europe) and China. Our difference may be that you consider them to be (have been) "Communist" and I consider them to be Stalinist (anti-communist as Marx's communism is a truly democratic idea of the working people assuming power to run society in the interest of majority--something similar to Lincoln's idea except the latter had not class conception).

    I'm not able to disassociate Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al from Marx with your facility. Marxism up to 1917 was famous for its revolutionary failures, with each wave of suppressed European revolution resulting in a subsequent wave of radical immigration to the US, Australia, Latin America and elsewhere, which eventually formed the backbone of our progressivism! Marx and Engels based their evaluation of the natural economic state of humanity on some really dodgy pre-anthropology tales of seafarers, explorers and early naturalists, tales that fueled Jean Jacques Rousseau's foundation for his "noble savage" idealism of humanity in its pristine state, an idealism that is nearly impossible to shake off even in the face of modern anthropological evidence that hunter gatherer societies did not live in balance with Nature, but, rather were nomadic precisely because they ate themselves out of hunting and gathering grounds, meanwhile engaging in endless deadly skirmishing with competing tribes, engaging in infanticide and parricide as a means of population control, and punishing transgressors of tribal taboos, such as marrying outside your clan, with death in an example of strict behavior control that would be called fascist today. Marx's ideal communist state is a direct application of Rousseau's template of humanity's natural state, whose incantation of the pre-city building paragon of "natural man" was a huge influence on Marx and other radical thinkers of his age.

    Walter Alter, [05.09.19 12:19]
    Furthermore, Marx was basically a Malthusian and a prophet of scarcity economics. Hell, the first words of the Communist Manifesto of 1848 were - "There is a specter haunting Europe, the specter of overproduction". Yet it is today this technological overproduction that creates surplus wealth that gives us all the good we enjoy in the modern world. Yes, there is bad in the modern world as well, but again back to that 51%-49% deal. Purism is simply not going to function in this world of science, industry, pluralistic democracy and high resolution, high pixel count cognition without turning the purist into an ends justify the means zealot capable of wishing for the deaths of millions, as one can find, if one digs in some of the deeper deep ecology literature. Besides, one day we are going to be damned glad we have the technological means of protecting this planet from the next extinction level asteroid that has us in the cross hairs. Google "Younger Dryas Event" along with "Richard Firestone".

    >>If you wish you can take a look at Alexander Gerschenkron's writings about late industrialization in which he considers the role of the state and ideology in economically backward countries to industrialize and catch up with the West (he was a conservative Harvard University economic historian whose work I examine in a chapter of my own dissertation).

    I'm thinking that theories of "late capitalism" failed to take into account the notion of "science drivers" and the impact of digital technology upon societies and economies. Also, lacking from much economic theory is an appreciation of human psychology and the flux that the current milieu of peer to peer lateral crosstalk is delivering to our psyches. Peer to peer is also the beginning of a great revolution against top down hierarchical control structures. The state actually IS withering away, lol, but not because of Marx, rather, because of the democratization of information, long monopolized by power centers. The most revolutionary among us are now whistleblowers, they are the new progressive cadre and should be encouraged and given safety. Additionally, the impact of artificial intelligence on human affairs is yet to be adequately gauged. I find it rational to wish for a decision making element that is not neurotic, not propelled by fanatacism, not leashed to an abysmal understanding of the human subconscious, not dealing with infant trauma or parental instigated PTSD, with total access to a flawless memory, with access to all data all the time, with instantaneous computation of complexities beyond our cognitive abilities and so on. Will AI render humans obsolete? Heh, worth thinking about. What is there about us that would merit obsolescence, where does our sentience fail us? Why are we not embarked on a crash program to discover the cause of the miraculous mental capabilities of Rain Man autistic savantism to better insure that we don't become obsolete?

    >> If you like to explore my own ideas including about issues that concerns you, please take a look at my essays. Here is one:
    To Be or Not to Be: Ecocentric Ecological Socialism as the Solution to the World Social and Planetary Crisis
    Please note that I am simply offering on set of ideas for the movement to consider. There will be many such ideas--all should be considered.

    Walter Alter, [05.09.19 12:19]
    Got it bookmarked. I'd be happy to check out your writing, but will comment initially on a portion of the web page's lead in quote from Marx you cite - "man’s private interest must be made to coincide with the interest of humanity. " The imperative tone of Marx on this point is a bit chilling to me and opens up a Pandora's box of potential abuse against human autonomy, which as a free agent anarchist, I find rippling my danger antennae. I think that all sane humans would coincide with the interest of humanity out of their intrinsic sense of fair play and pleasure driven future casting and don't need a bayonet as encouragement. The problem is how to reduce the level of insanity in the world and the key to that, in my estimation, is the eradication of scarcity including the scarcity of love, tolerance, stability, idealsim, etc. Marx puts the cart before the horse in my opinion by assuming that the state can reform humans before humans can reform the state. This is top down hierarchical thinking which is out of step with the cyber age and its eminent democratization of information. Time and again we see the good in history kickstarted by bright, problem solving individuals often going against the taboos of their society, often putting themselves in danger and getting themselves killed. What they fight against is the social and psychological fallout from feudalist scarcity economics, which has typified human social organization from the dawn of history up until late capitalism. We now live within a context of surplus economics for the first time in human history and no one really knows how that is going to shake out.

    A pleasure to dialog with you,
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  2. TopTop #2
    EmeraldMatra's Avatar

    Re: Occupy Wall St. Means Wall St. and Fascist Headquarters - Banks, Bankers, Banking

    Public response to the post below:

    The Occupy Movement has a policy not to endorse any political party or candidate.

    Here is the mission statement for OSC:
    Occupy Sonoma County embraces the egalitarian, deep democracy principles of the Occupy Movement with a regional strategy for effectively organizing countywide social justice campaigns that are globally relevant.

    Here is our Climate Declaration:

    Occupy Sonoma County, along with concerned, forward thinking people all over the world, declares that climate change has reached catastrophic proportions as evidenced by the current level of CO2 in the atmosphere, the melting of polar ice caps, and the continual rising of global temperatures. This is a global emergency, and we must act immediately.​ We invite all forces of life to join together for our survival. We stand up for life.
    We recognize that the root of climate change is a capitalist system run by money greedy corporations and the governments that they control. We actively oppose greenhouse gas producers, nuclear power investors, and fossil fuel companies by boycotting their products, developing alternatives, divesting from corporations that endorse them and insisting that governments at all levels take action. We call on all governments and corporations to adopt life-sustaining practices immediately.
    The people must act now to stop this destruction from continuing and reverse the damage this has caused​. The future is in our hands. We are the 99%!

    Neither Kamyan Nayeri or Walter Alter have ever attended a meeting of Occupy Sonoma County and are not involved in OSC although they have been invited. There has been no discussion within OSC for a "strict Marxist party line" as suggested below.

    For more information about what we are working on go to our website at

    Our next teach-in is on

    Monday, September 23, 7:00-9:00 PM at the Peace & Justice Center

    With presenter Mickey Huff, professor of social science and history at Diablo Valley College, director of Project Censored & co-*host of the weekly KPFA Project Censored Show

    To anyone who wishes to influence the decisions of OSC, our meetings are always open. Our meeting schedule is posted on our website.

    Occupy Sonoma County

    Quote infojockey wrote: View Post
    How did the Occupy Wall St. movement get itself deflected from targeting the brain of the Beast to targeting the Beast's butt? Occupy Sonoma County is now a co-opted entity that has abandoned its laudable founding principles- raising awareness of the globalist crypto-Nazi Wall St. - City of London financier debt farmer oligarchy in favor of environmentalism as a Marxist postmodernist critical theory battering ram against kapital. ...
    Last edited by Barry; 09-07-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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