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  1. TopTop #91

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    Quote Cascade wrote: View Post
    ...Do you remember James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan? As I recall, he said something to the effect that God gave us this world to use fully, and so we should use it up before the end times. I tend to think that the major Trump supporters are like that, and don't care about what they leave for the next generations.
    Misattributed

    • God gave us these things to use. After the last tree is felled, Christ will come back.
      • Attributed in Setting the Captives Free (1990) by Austin Miles, and widely repeated after appearing in "The Godly Must Be Crazy", by Glenn Scherer in Grist magazine (28 October 2004). Grist afterwards retracted and apologized for Scherer's comment, noting that the quotation appears nowhere in Watt's Congressional testimony or any other source it could find. Watt has responded:
        I never said it. Never believed it. Never even thought it. I know no Christian who believes or preaches such error. The Bible commands conservation — that we as Christians be careful stewards of the land and resources entrusted to us by the Creator.
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:32 AM.
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  2. TopTop #92
    Cascade's Avatar
    Cascade
    Supporting Member

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    Obviously I never saw the retraction - but what I remembered certainly fit the way Watt acted. Has anyone seen a comparison between Watt's policies on the environment and what Trump's appointees are doing?

    ~Cascade

    Re James Watt supposedly saying that God gave us the world to use up before the end times.
    Quote cyberanvil wrote: View Post
    Misattributed...
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:33 AM.
    Cascade Cook www.aphroweb.net Re polyamory. cascade(at)hisys.com 707-794-7334
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  3. TopTop #93
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    So be it,
    In which case, the Trump is no different than any other politician, looks good on the outside, but serves themselves for everything else.

    Instead of being critical, what then would you suggest and who do you like??

    It is great to be the sideline critic, but you have asked me for my set of facts and I have given them to you,
    BUT you have offered nothing in return in regards to better suggestions other than being critical about Trump and everything else.

    I find that to be pretty typical of this group, no good ideas other than to criticize whatever you see and not to really try to understand the dynamics of being in a position such as his.
    Please show me something else.
    Ken.
    Quote Cascade wrote: View Post
    You seem to believe that Trump's ultimate agenda is beneficial, ...
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:41 AM.
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  4. TopTop #94
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    So be it,
    In which case, the Trump is no different than any other politician, looks good on the outside, but serves themselves for everything else.

    Instead of being critical, what then would you suggest and who do you like??...

    I find that to be pretty typical of this group, no good ideas other than to criticize whatever you see
    So many things wrong. Hell yes he's way different than pretty much any other politician. I had a boss once tell me that you sometimes have a choice between doing business with a crook and with an idiot. He said, choose the crook because at least you can reason with him. With the idiot, you're screwed. Trump is way worse both intellectually and ethically, unless you really do believe the Hillary-pedophile theory. Even then, she was damn smart. And yes, there's one overriding good idea that's been posted here. Get the bastard out. It's that simple - a great place to start, and it'll pave the way for people who might actually improve things. Deck chairs on the Titanic and all that... worrying about the 'big picture' that you seem most interested in isn't appropriate when he's trashing the place, making future solutions harder.

    I don't share your blanket condemnation of the other politicians, or believe in what little I've learned of your ex-CIA analysts' claims of the forces driving us to perdition. I can't argue on an even footing with climate-change deniers who spend inordinate amount of time on the subject either. For that matter, I can't argue on an equal basis with followers of Baal. That doesn't make their theology right, or climate change a myth, or deep-state conspiracies true.

    And of course there is corruption and people with some selfish motives in politics. Of course economics aren't what Adam Smith is presumed to have said; although he was actually quite the realist himself. I've said, and I suspect others have, that the solution, such as it is, is to push for more transparency, to vote for people with ethics, and to oppose inhumane and destructive policies along with those who support them. That seems like quite a specific set of 'solutions' to me.
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:44 AM.
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  6. TopTop #95
    Cascade's Avatar
    Cascade
    Supporting Member

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    Hi Ken,

    I don't believe all politicians are in politics for their own benefit. I supported Bernie last time. This time I'd still be glad to vote for him if he's nominated, but I'd rather vote for Elizabeth Warren. She's working to help the regular people, for example fighting to establish the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. She understands the trials of people who don't have enough money because of what her family went through as she was growing up. She understands the law - she's been a law professor. She's extremely smart and was convinced by others to go into politics. She uses her spunk and intelligence to fight for economics that will benefit people. She works to give everyone A Fighting Chance (the title of her book published in 2014). She would work hard for all of us to have a chance at a decent life.

    I was impressed by the way Sanders and Warren were friendly at the debate - I think they are both wanting to do what is best for the country, and tearing each other down would not help the progressive cause.

    I definitely don't have answers to the pressing issues of our time. I think we need to be able to have reasonable conversations about possible solutions. I want to see politicians that will support a good solution whether it's proposed by their party or by the opposition.

    ~Cascade
    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    So be it, ...
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:45 AM.
    Cascade Cook www.aphroweb.net Re polyamory. cascade(at)hisys.com 707-794-7334
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  8. TopTop #96
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: Discussions with Trump supporters

    I respect your desire, but I have not seen any of the Dems propose any idea that is doable and would actually work. Talk is cheap, but as we have seen through many years of Obama, lots of good ideas, but nothing that actually resulted in anything.

    Bailing out banks when he could have just let them fail, and then hand that same money to the local communities to keep the credit markets afloat.

    Endless war w/ISIS, and DJT knocked them out in a few months

    Health Care that would work, and we get higher premiums and tons of red tape. This one is still in the works, but if we could do private insurance with standardized data record formats we would have a good system to have competition provide a better level of care overall.

    Things have to be financially sound BEFORE they are presented, and none of the Dems show anything of the kind. Bernie is a socialist nut, who does not stand a chance and has nothing that is economically sound, and Elizabeth is not much better.

    I understand that they may 'Sound' good, but there has to be substance beneath all of the words, and NONE of them have anything of merit.
    Just my opinion,
    Thanks,
    Ken.
    BTW, all other nations would love any one of them to get in, for they will return the US to being the worlds piggy bank, and just milk us dry. Not good for us. Think of how you try to run your own household finances, we have to do the same as a country and have not been doing so for over 40 years and it is killing us. Time for us to get our own house in order, and then we can lead the world by example and mentorship, not by handouts.

    Quote Cascade wrote: View Post
    I don't believe all politicians are in politics for their own benefit. I supported Bernie last time. ...
    Last edited by Barry; Yesterday at 11:47 AM.
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