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  1. TopTop #1
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    what the 4th really means

    Compendium courtesy of Global Research, for us to awaken and be the Americans this country really needs. Jude


    Celebrate 243 Years of “Profitable Genocide”

    By Jay Janson
    Independence Holiday in the USA becomes a time when citizens tend to reflect on the nations two hundred forty year history. It is a history typical of six European empires in the areas of genocide and plunder. Read more...

    The United States and Human Rights. A Long and Violent History

    By Robert Fantina
    When speaking about the United States’ blatant, constant and egregious violations of human rights, it is difficult to know where to start. That brutal, rogue nation, which disdains human rights and holds international law in contempt, is guilty on both the domestic and international stages. Read more...

    Militarism Defines Trump’s 4th of July Spectacle

    By Stephen Lendman
    Annual US Independence Day commemorations reflect hypocrisy, not democracy, a notion the nation’s founders abhorred, things no different today.Read more...

    It’s Time to Declare Your Independence from Tyranny, America

    By John W. Whitehead
    Indeed, it is painfully fitting that mere days before the nation prepared to celebrate its freedoms on the anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, the City Council for Charlottesville, Virginia—the home of Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration—voted to do away with a holiday to honor Jefferson’s birthday, because Jefferson, like many of his contemporaries, owned slaves. Read more...

    Fourth of July: “Put Away the Flags”

    By Howard Zinn
    On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed. Read more...

    A Thought for the Fourth of July: Can the U.S. Constitution Accommodate a Rogue President?

    By Prof Rodrigue Tremblay
    Very soon after his inauguration, Donald Trump began governing in authoritative way, issuing decree after decree, while attacking the press and the courts that stood in his way. Now, he seems to want the entire U.S. government to be at his personal service. Read more...

    What is July 4th to US Imperialism? What is it to the Oppressed?

    By Danny Haiphong
    What does America’s national celebration mean to those under the heel of “Manifest Destiny,” at home and abroad? “For the victims of US imperialism, the 4th of July is indeed a ‘hollow mockery’ and ‘mere bombast, fraud, and deception’ as Frederick Douglass so eloquently put it in his famous speech.” Read more...
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    Last edited by Barry; 07-05-2019 at 11:01 AM.
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  3. TopTop #2
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    I must take exception to your cynicism of American history. Clearly you would like to diminish what this country was founded to become and represent. 243 years ago, things were quite a bit different than they were today, and the world would be quite a bit different if we were never here to represent the more positive values that we have and still attempt to do.

    I am clearly aware of the corruption, demeaning politics and international manipulation that you seem to be trying to peddle, but also see that the core of the USA is still intact beyond the last 50 years of attempts of the liberal-socialist agenda to tear us down. Thankfully it is possible to see the world as a non-binary choice and one with multiple layers and agenda's at play that are not easily represented as a push-button choice.

    There are many layers of depth currently in play and I hope that you can see them as well. Trump is trying to bring back this nation more to that which we were founded upon regardless on what the MSM seems to be harping about him on. He is not perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than any other alternative that we have had in the last 10 years or anything that I currently see in play with the possible exception of Marianne Williamson, although I see her more as a good contributor rather than a genuine executive leader.

    It is possible to both honor the majesty of the USA and also be concerned for our flaws, but to have one day where we can celebrate and put our politics aside.
    Just a thought.
    Peace and be well,
    Ken.
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  4. TopTop #3
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Hiya Ken.

    In our lifetimes, Columbus Day has undergone a big change with the growing awareness of what really happened here with his landing on this continent. Thanksgiving has also been transformed somewhat, due to revelations about the actual genocides of native peoples replacing the warm and fuzzy narrative of Pilgrims sitting down to feast with the 'Indians'. I believe it to be healthy, actually necessary for growth and evolution both individual and collective, to learn of true history - as much as possible - and take responsibility for policy which caused massive death and suffering, and still does. Without that, it continues. And worsens. We have the torch now, to enlighten and pass. Or not.

    Some of us have spent decades awake to the brutal effect our country has had around the world. With over 800 military bases throughout the world, we are the dominant power, and it's NOT democracy we're spreading, despite the slogans... have you noticed?

    I find Trump most personally repellent than Obama, and the carnage caused by the vast selling off of nature in every form and the inhumane sensibility regarding children, women, refugees (they all tend to be treated the same - either well or badly) is more. But Obama was the deporter-in-chief and the Wall St. Savior and Main Street betrayer. And each before him, all front men for the same system, founded by white land-owners with great phrases like "the pursuit of happiness" to which to aspire.

    Yep, I was born here, though only just, and feel some allegiance, or certainly responsibly - like trying to educate your kid and keeping him from beating up other kids and acting badly. I'd love to be really proud of 'my country'. Our anthem is about bombs bursting in air. The country's emotional tenor is adolescent male, ready to be rousted to war with a beer and one good speech. Average US IQ 98 - we rank 24th in the world https://brandongaille.com/list-avera...erican-states/ - not that smart.
    Voting against self-interests is still rampant - what do you make of that?
    Sending children to war for the profits of the defense contractors and oil barons... ongoing.

    For some astute input, check out: Democracy May Not Exist, but we'll miss it when it's gone -
    https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Exi...s%2C303&sr=8-1

    and consider "the biggest threat to democracy is capitalism"...https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/02/a...racy-interview

    Seems to me that Scandinavians are far better off than we are (though less sunshine) and the Danes always rank first on happiest.

    Speaking of, gotta go, enjoy the summer, Jude

    P.S. Since the moon walk very nearly 50 years ago, the only flag I feel is worth being waved is the Earth flag. Time for chauvinism, or transnational corporate statehood, is now past. We are (as humanity) at an all or nothing place and planetary consciousness is needed to get through together. Or not. Or to whatever degree we can ameliorate this extremely intense scenario.
    Let's get clear on that and then do everything we can to make it so.





    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    I must take exception to your cynicism of American history. Clearly you would like to diminish what this country was founded to become and represent. 243 years ago, things were quite a bit different than they were today, and the world would be quite a bit different if we were never here to represent the more positive values that we have and still attempt to do.

    I am clearly aware of the corruption, demeaning politics and international manipulation that you seem to be trying to peddle, but also see that the core of the USA is still intact beyond the last 50 years of attempts of the liberal-socialist agenda to tear us down. Thankfully it is possible to see the world as a non-binary choice and one with multiple layers and agenda's at play that are not easily represented as a push-button choice.

    There are many layers of depth currently in play and I hope that you can see them as well. Trump is trying to bring back this nation more to that which we were founded upon regardless on what the MSM seems to be harping about him on. He is not perfect, but is a hell of a lot better than any other alternative that we have had in the last 10 years or anything that I currently see in play with the possible exception of Marianne Williamson, although I see her more as a good contributor rather than a genuine executive leader.

    It is possible to both honor the majesty of the USA and also be concerned for our flaws, but to have one day where we can celebrate and put our politics aside.
    Just a thought.
    Peace and be well,
    Ken.
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  6. TopTop #4
    jbox's Avatar
    jbox
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    I must take exception to your cynicism of American history. ...
    Sorry to be coarse, but how do you feel about an opinion that Trump is intellectually unqualified to be President, is ignorant, is a pathological liar, a racist, and a traitor? Hard to argue with a preponderance of fact. The principles upon which the country was founded demand better than Trump.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-07-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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  8. TopTop #5
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Hi Jude,
    Yes, I do understand how things can appear from the outside, and yet I understand that there are many layers before one gets to something resembling the Truth of the situation, and unfortunately, that Truth is not what resembles what is seen on the surface.

    The desecration of nations and the Planet has been going on for a LONG time and it is not about parties or even governments or even social organizations, but is about banking and globalism, and socialism although a great idea has never worked anywhere in a large country for a long period of time.

    Before I would subscribe to Scandinavian socialism, you might want to visit and see for yourself as I know that whatever one views of the media here is highly skewed to promote it vs providing a fair and accurate view of reality. I am not going to propose to be an expert on its differences other than to say that I have seen/heard this argument many times and when confronted with the truth of those countries, it is far different than what we might see through a small lens.

    Please do a bit more research, and know that Trump did not just fall into the office by being a arrogant rich guy, but was selected as they all are by a select group of military patriots that truly want to bring the original Constitution back to this country before we would have slid into WWIII and a true military socialism. Not a good option for anyone.

    OK to have different opinions, but important to understand the facts first.
    Be well,
    Ken.
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  10. TopTop #6
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    You can be as course as you want, but just because you are not part of the club does not mean that you are unqualified, and just because you think differently does not mean that you are stupid.

    How about virtually all politicians are unqualified to truly represent the American populace primarily because they are groomed into a class of mindset to lie and manipulate for a corrupt system of greater and greater govt power vs truly supporting the nation of people and successful middle class.

    Truth is not about what you see on TV, it is the ability to look through history for yourself and connect the dots.

    I see him as a very well skilled negotiator who has done an incredible job considering that he has been blocked and sabotaged at virtually every turn.

    Mark this time well, for things are going to change a lot between now and 2020, and eventually you will be very thankful that he has done what he has, but it may take a few years after all of that for the real stories to come out.

    Mental distortion is a tough thing to recover from especially when it is done in-masse over a long time, and then the Truth-teller looks like the nut.

    Thanks,
    Ken.
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  12. TopTop #7
    Jude Iam's Avatar
    Jude Iam
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Ken:

    The "truth tellers" are in prison, jailed by those whose horrific acts have been revealed by them:

    Julian Assange - NEVER a single word that he's published has been shown to be false
    Chelsea Manning - the killings that she disclosed were illegal, immoral and perpetrated by those who have imprisoned her AGAIN.
    Edward Snowden is still self-exiled to avoid prison and worse in the US.

    The message is clear: be a "whistle-blower" and be crushed for telling the truth, to preclude more truth coming to light.

    As for Trump, regardless of whether he's in or out of any 'club', it is totally undeniable that he is crude, narcissistic, sexist, clueless, corrupt, brutal, and a bad businessman.

    Since our view of this man, over the course of his presidency, varies so diametrically, I have nothing more to say. History will certainly judge thoroughly.
    Jude
    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    You can be as course as you want, but just because you are not part of the club does not mean that you are unqualified, and just because you think differently does not mean that you are stupid.

    How about virtually all politicians are unqualified to truly represent the American populace primarily because they are groomed into a class of mindset to lie and manipulate for a corrupt system of greater and greater govt power vs truly supporting the nation of people and successful middle class.

    Truth is not about what you see on TV, it is the ability to look through history for yourself and connect the dots.

    I see him as a very well skilled negotiator who has done an incredible job considering that he has been blocked and sabotaged at virtually every turn.

    Mark this time well, for things are going to change a lot between now and 2020, and eventually you will be very thankful that he has done what he has, but it may take a few years after all of that for the real stories to come out.

    Mental distortion is a tough thing to recover from especially when it is done in-masse over a long time, and then the Truth-teller looks like the nut.

    Thanks,
    Ken.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-08-2019 at 01:45 PM.
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  14. TopTop #8
    kburgess's Avatar
    kburgess
     

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Hello Jude,
    I agree with your thought of Truth-Tellers, which is exactly why it is us that need to support them to get the word out and apply our open minds and critical thinking to see for ourselves, and not get caught up into pre-judgments of the thoughts of others to make up our own minds. They were not crushed by our opinions, but by the deep-state-cabal that has all to loose by their voices not being destroyed, thus it is the cabal that is the real enemy and all that has grown out of it and connected to it that must be destroyed in the long run. AKA- Political entrenchment, Fake non-news-reporting-media, non-independent-critical-thinking oriented education, non-health oriented medical and health infrastructure and more.

    As for Trump, he may posses those qualities that you mention, but would say that even so he is a MUCH better leader for our country in regards to intelligent national decision making than Obama or Hillary could ever be, and if we had gotten her in the office, we would not be having anything close to this enlightened conversation that we are having right now.

    As for our conversation, I find that the art of intelligent civil dialogue is exactly what has allowed our country to be different than a socialist controlled regime, where dissenting speech is crushed at the start under the guise of 'social-harmony'.

    I would much prefer the opportunity to have a good discussion with you as we might have differing opinions, but still able to converse and respect each other in the end regardless of our agreement.

    Please be well,
    Ken.
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  15. TopTop #9
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
    Supporting Member

    Re: what the 4th really means

    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    .... to get the word out and apply our open minds and critical thinking to see for ourselves, and not get caught up into pre-judgments of the thoughts of others to make up our own minds. They were not crushed by our opinions, but by the deep-state-cabal that has all to loose by their voices not being destroyed, thus it is the cabal that is the real enemy and all that has grown out of it and connected to it that must be destroyed in the long run. AKA- Political entrenchment, Fake non-news-reporting-media, non-independent-critical-thinking oriented education, non-health oriented medical and health infrastructure and more.

    As for Trump, he may posses those qualities that you mention, but would say that even so he is a MUCH better leader for our country in regards to intelligent national decision making than Obama or Hillary could ever be, and if we had gotten her in the office, we would not be having anything close to this enlightened conversation that we are having right now.
    I don't know why so many people are confident that they see through to reality, and can tell that it's the deep state, not corporate and oligarch's self-interest that are our problems. In other posts, you equally confidently characterize what kind of people are successful politicians, even as you dismiss them as morally deficient -- but somehow Trump escapes that analysis, is even admirable?

    I get more and more convinced that the people most pleased by their 'open minds' are building a 'truth' with those open minds that is unencumbered by data, in particular by actually ever having interacted much with politicians, powerful business people, or people of much wealth. I've proven repeatedly that I'm comfortable building theories based on my own experiences, extrapolating from them to make my own judgments - and to advocate for them too. So I get the impulse. But I recommend trying to limit your psychoanalysis of people you don't know and also to take more seriously the evidence right in front of you regarding the damage that Trump et al are doing. All the theories about the Clinton manipulations that I've seen are based on far less evidence than what you can see right in front of us that Trump and his collaborators/exploiters in the Republican party are doing. I don't say that to exonerate the Clintons at all -- but to wonder that those who condemn them are so forgiving of Trump.
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  17. TopTop #10
    podfish's Avatar
    podfish
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    Re: what the 4th really means

    Quote kburgess wrote: View Post
    I must take exception to your cynicism of American history. Clearly you would like to diminish what this country was founded to become and represent...... the core of the USA is still intact beyond the last 50 years of attempts of the liberal-socialist agenda to tear us down.
    a big part of the liberal-socialist agenda is actually to preserve what this country was founded to become and represent, and to carry it on into the future. I sadly agree that the core of the USA, if you're referring to those with established wealth, is indeed intact despite 50 years of attempts to make society more egalitarian. Still, there's been a lot of progress in those 50 years. Those whose parents didn't share in the AG of MAGA 50 years ago are still fighting the same fight, of course, against many of those who were privileged then and are still reaping the benefits of the advantages their forebears fought to preserve -- but at least transparently fighting to preserve privilege is kind of frowned upon. It's also somewhat tougher to reap economic benefit while foisting the cost on the rest of us by despoiling the air, water and land, though Trump has done a lot to roll that back. It's probably a wash, regarding whether the economically powerful can exploit the less well connected - unions are gone, Trump just won a decision allowing employers to force their employees to revoke the right to sue for redress, but there's hope for increasing a minimum wage that's sat where it was for ten years, and maybe some increased access to health care is going to succeed despite republican opposition.

    But as is typical of people who write from your perspective, you're not denying the facts from his 'cynical view of history'. You're just willing to accept it as at most an unattractive collection of episodes that shouldn't be allowed to detract from a pollyanna-ish view of American exceptionalism.
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