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  1. TopTop #1
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    One of the clearest articles I've read about critical issues of our time involving climate, law, justice, politics. Author gives a good background of start and development of planning - from late 1980s through to present time. The information, I think, helps us understand more of what is going on locally, nationally, globally.

    Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!
    https://www.globalresearch.ca/word-t...w-deal/5673678

    quotes from article: "...the vast majority, out of deep concern for the planet, are effectively neutralized by the jargon, buzz words and slogans with purposely obscure definitions, all of which are dreamt up by the best PR firms money can buy."

    "big “S” Sustainable Development will affect the farmer: If you own livestock and they can drink from a creek, then they want you to permanently fence off your own land to prevent any upset of potential fish habitat. . . Agenda 21 focuses on the goal of eliminating meat consumption and using pastures to grow wheat, corn and soy for human consumption. To get us to comply, we’re told in endless propaganda campaigns that meat is dangerous and the vegan lifestyle is the only healthy alternative."

    "agriculture and private property are listed as “unsustainable.” All the private property and water rights infringements ....come in a wide variety of names to throw people off, such as Comprehensive Planning, Growth Management, Smart Growth, and so forth."

    "Smart Growth and Smart Cities .... part of the “sustainability” plan .... fail to look at “new” energy or even non-industrial hemp as a soil-rebuilding, environment-friendly way to provide a sizable portion of the nation’s energy needs; which fail to understand the crucial importance of restoring carbon-rich humus to the soil via holistic livestock management and other forms of regenerative agriculture; which somehow rely on the big banks and a flotilla of “investors,” rather than doing the obvious by reforming the nation’s monetary system; and which, as Koire and others correctly assert, can only lead to totalitarianism in the end."

    "Regional Planning Association is America 2050 whose focus is on planning for the emergence of mega-regions, or high density urban areas, along with infrastructure development......"

    "A little 40 page book titled Redevelopment: The Unknown Government (https://sanlorenzoexpress.com/norby1.htm) put out by the California Municipal Officials for Redevelopment Reform lays out the ugly truth with charts, cartoons and hard data ..."

    "The problem that almost no one sees is that UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is the action plan to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, all energy, and all human beings in the world."
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  3. TopTop #2
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    ...."big “S” Sustainable Development will affect the farmer: If you own livestock and they can drink from a creek, then they want you to permanently fence off your own land to prevent any upset of potential fish habitat. . .....
    "The problem that almost no one sees is that UN Agenda 21/Sustainable Development is the action plan to inventory and control all land, all water, all minerals, all plants, all animals, all construction, all means of production, all information, all energy, and all human beings in the world."
    yeah, darn it, if you trash the creek on your property, (cuz, it's my creek!) then your downstream neighbors might find it reasonable to regulate you a bit.

    for all of you redpillers who are so quick to see hidden motives and secret powerful groups, how come you don't see the obvious ones? Maybe there's an odd cabal who want to "inventory and control all land / water / minerals / molecules / thoughts / dreams" but it seems way more likely there's a quite visible informal cabal of those who profit by your fears. They've successfully co-opted you to preserve their current levels of economic control. In fact, you're doing better than that, you're helping them escape any accountability for negative effects on the rest of us. But having an imagined boogyman is maybe easier on your psyche than the idea that you're kind of helpless against more traditional, banal economic oppression?
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  5. TopTop #3
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    yeah, darn it, if you trash the creek on your property, (cuz, it's my creek!) then your downstream neighbors might find it reasonable to regulate you a bit.
    I agree... I'm not against regulations that preserve/protect the commons and quality of all life.... What I don't like is that a group of self-appointed nonelected people are determining policies - without allowing public awareness or input, and who seem to be removing the commons entirely for commodification.

    a quite visible informal cabal of those who profit by your fears. They've successfully co-opted you to preserve their current levels of economic control.
    I find my fear lessens when seeing documentation of plans that explain why there is increasing nonresponsiveness of government et cetera at all levels - across all party affiliations. This kind of reporting helps us see more rather than less.

    As for the obvious economic control and lack of any course correction (e.g. actual restoration of Glass-Steagall, banks held accountable, stopping wealth transfer to 1% and the even more rarified, et cetera) I see as part of the same problem...

    We are all affected by these most extreme times that I, for one, never ever imagined living in. I wish us all:
    Beannacht ("Blessing")

    On the day when
    the weight deadens
    on your shoulders
    and you stumble,
    may the clay dance
    to balance you.

    And when your eyes
    freeze behind
    the grey window
    and the ghost of loss
    gets in to you,
    may a flock of colours,
    indigo, red, green,
    and azure blue
    come to awaken in you
    a meadow of delight.

    When the canvas frays
    in the currach of thought
    and a stain of ocean
    blackens beneath you,
    may there come across the waters
    a path of yellow moonlight
    to bring you safely home.

    May the nourishment of the earth be yours,
    may the clarity of light be yours,
    may the fluency of the ocean be yours,
    may the protection of the ancestors be yours.
    And so may a slow
    wind work these words
    of love around you,
    an invisible cloak
    to mind your life.

    John O'Donohue
    ~ Echoes of Memory
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  7. TopTop #4
    Karl Frederick's Avatar
    Karl Frederick
    Supporting member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Podfish, I'm curious about your comment
    " . . . but it seems way more likely there's a quite visible informal cabal of those who profit by your fears."
    --

    Please name and describe the actors in your hypothesis! (And please address the content of the original post, explaining your issues with the specifics it presents.)

    I'd like to see informed and respectful dialogue on this and other subjects which are emerging into (limited) public awareness in these times of discovery and increasing transparency. Using humor to disparage an idea that's not yet confirmed as "legitimate" by the MSM can be temporarily effective if the desire is to make it go away. But that approach doesn't solve anything. Let's elevate the discourse and grant each other a truly open forum.

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    ...
    for all of you redpillers who are so quick to see hidden motives and secret powerful groups, how come you don't see the obvious ones? Maybe there's an odd cabal who want to "inventory and control all land / water / minerals / molecules / thoughts / dreams" but it seems way more likely there's a quite visible informal cabal of those who profit by your fears. They've successfully co-opted you to preserve their current levels of economic control. In fact, you're doing better than that, you're helping them escape any accountability for negative effects on the rest of us. But having an imagined boogyman is maybe easier on your psyche than the idea that you're kind of helpless against more traditional, banal economic oppression?
    Last edited by Barry; 04-08-2019 at 08:57 AM.
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  9. TopTop #5
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote Karl Frederick wrote: View Post
    Podfish, I'm curious about your comment,,,
    right, because until it's confirmed as legitimate by the MSM, the sheeple won't go for it? is that your implication? does 'respectful' mean slightly more veiled innuendo?

    As for who profits, it's anyone who wants to avoid regulation and finds allies who buy into the idea that regulation is being imposed as part of a one-world-order plan. So yeah, it includes the farmers (actually agribusiness) who are forced to protect fish habitat. And the beef lobby, who fight any measures that compromise their business in order to limit their environmental impact. MM seems to see this as part of the problems caused by excessive corporate influence on government.

    I beg to differ. I think the corporations are thrilled when people are side-tracked by the idea that there's a small conspiracy going on. No, it's an ant-hill - the beef-growing ants, quite understandably, want to promote their businesses and limit alternatives, and avoid costs associated with stream protection.

    And transparency in any organization is rare. If you work for a company, does your boss disclose their motives to you (much less to customers or god forbid rivals)? People with jobs to do or goals to accomplish rarely benefit from the meddling that happens when others get involved. For god's sake, parents don't let their kids know everything that's going on and teenagers are even less inclined to overshare with their parents. This is such a strong tendency that we have laws and regulations to try to force transparency. It's not a conspiracy when it turns out there are indeed people coordinating their plans, it's a system failure. Fortunately, people also are terrible at keeping their secrets, so eventually many things do get exposed. There's also often more negative consequences to exposure of an attempt to hide things than there is at revealing them. That also serves as a control.

    So to return to emergent behavior (my anthill) - what we see is exactly what we should expect to see; groups acting selfishly in their own interests, and limited, semi-random pushback. M/M seems to tacitly acknowledge this at least somewhat. I don't see why hunting for the influence of the Rothschilds or Bilderbergers adds any understanding.
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  11. TopTop #6
    theindependenteye's Avatar
    theindependenteye
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    I have to admit to a bias on this issue: I agree almost all of the time with Podfish's balanced rationality.

    Apart from that, I have only this to add: When I hear Agenda 21 invoked, I ask myself a question I haven't heard answered by anyone in the business, for or against: If it's as invidious a conspiracy as is alleged, why have the perpetrators published it where all can see it? Why didn't they have their private conspiracy huddles at the Left-wing versions of Mar-a-lago? How did the brilliant detectives of the Eco-terrorists log into these secret conspiracies? If I sound dubious, well, yeh.

    Who's making money out of the Vegan agenda? Maybe some healhfood stores? Who's making money out of rampant deregulgation. Ah, let me count the ways! Pardon the sarcasm, but right now I'm not up to attaining calm.

    Cheers—
    Conrad
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  13. TopTop #7
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    ....When I hear Agenda 21 invoked, I ask myself a question I haven't heard answered by anyone in the business, for or against: If it's as invidious a conspiracy as is alleged, why have the perpetrators published it where all can see it?
    I cannot speak to ALL.. I am aware that after the Santa Rosa fires of 2017 - city plans were taken off City's website. I have no idea if they are back on the website. I've heard from people who are willing to do the research vis a vis UN Agendas that plans for towns, cities, states are not always published. The point I wanted to make is that in a democracy where politicians are voted in by us - because they are part of 'government of, for, by the people' .. these plans are not discussed. They appear mandated, not open for discussion or are discussed in very limited, sometime even ludicrous, terms. E.g. Green New Deal uses catch phrases that are not all that illuminating. The idea that gas from cows is sole source of methane and warming is ludicrous. Nothing is said about the vast amounts of methane being released from melting permafrost all around entire northern hemisphere... Those who planned their Post-Whatever Doomsday seed bank in Svalbard (12 stories beneath the permafrost) are now finding that ironically is one of the most rapidly warming areas: ‘Doomsday vault’ town warming quicker than any other on Earth, climate scientist says
    https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/doomsday-seed-vault-svalbard-norway-global-warming-a8842521.html

    A related article:
    Thousands of underground gas bulges, formed by thawing permafrost, set to 'explode' in Siberia
    http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017...ode-in-Siberia

    The sheer amount of gases released by volcanoes all over the Pacific Rim is another source of warming. Deforestation - cutting down the planet's lungs is another - with their ability to take up CO2; all sorts of ordinances used in various wars - none of these are part of picture we are provided as to why our planet is in trouble.

    Dr. Shiva for one discusses many of the complex issues involved for anyone who wants to take the time to investigate: Vandana Shiva: We Must Fight Back Against the 1 Percent to Stop the Sixth Mass Extinction https://www.democracynow.org/2019/2/...IlAN9Fbh6S63K4

    Who's making money out of the Vegan agenda?
    In terms of health: Big Pharma for one, medical equipment companies, for another.... it takes knowledge to do a vegan diet well. If not done well, health conditions can take some years to develop. For example, It is difficult to get the right balance of proteins - so that all the essential amino acids are available to body. They are called 'essential' because they can only be obtained via diet. The body cannot make these on its own. All the neurotransmitters in the body, all the enzymes for many metabolic processes including digestion, all the repair of normal wear and tear of cells in digestive, skeletal and other organ systems - rely on adequate protein. So without the right aminos and co-factor B vitamins and minerals to make neurotransmitters: anxiety, depression, sleep disturbances, low energy can develop. Each condition is associated w/1 or more neurotransmitters.. so one, or more, may show up based on what aminos are deficient. Many plant foods have lectins, phytates, poisons like oxalates - that require either certain preparation (soaking/sprouting, cooking w/high temps) to limit damage or require limiting the amount of toxins ingested.. This does not get into the issues w/damage to soil and to gut from glyphosate - sprayed on all non-organically-grown grains before harvest to 'dry' them.. Depending on whether 'vegan' diet consists of processed foods and high amount of starchy carbohydrates, diabetes can occur. Plants have very tough cell walls; eating a raw vegan diet makes it even harder to obtain nutrients from food.

    That does not even get into the many other related issues of who dictates land use, diet... etc etc etc
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  14. TopTop #8
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    more information coming out re: melting permafrost and warming:
    Thawing Permafrost Emitting Higher Levels of Potent Greenhouse Gas Than Previously Thought:
    Last edited by Barry; 04-18-2019 at 12:08 PM.
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  15. TopTop #9
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    more information coming out re: melting permafrost and warming:
    Thawing Permafrost Emitting Higher Levels of Potent Greenhouse Gas Than Previously Thought:
    https://www.commondreams.org/news/20...iously-thought
    yeah, this is part of why 5G doesn't get me very excited, it's kind of a first-world problem compared to what seems to be inevitable major climate change.

    This is where it's flipped - the majority of scientists researching EMF don't seem very worried, but the majority doing climate work seem to be either in despair or resignation. The political upheavals are starting - not protests, really, but migration - along with economic and health effects that we can't really expect to avoid. Tropical diseases moving north, etc, much less just dealing with the heat waves, are gonna get us before EMF ever does. Plus, if you're worried about 'millimeter radiation' getting into your cells, I'm much more concerned with this stuff getting in our lungs and bloodstream:

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...g-in-the-wind/

    just for one example. Lots of toxics out there!
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  17. TopTop #10
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    yeah, this is part of why 5G doesn't get me very excited, it's kind of a first-world problem compared to what seems to be inevitable major climate change....
    Podfish I hear you on so many levels...

    Two things.. just about to post an article linking 5G and how rockets to launch so many satellites for this technology makes it a contributor to climate change. Second, "the majority of scientists researching EMF don't seem very worried" is true for industry scientists, who know and suppress knowledge of detrimental effects. There are 10s of 1000s of papers from independent scientists showing damage and great concern. Many of these are from when we were still at 3G !
    Last edited by Barry; 04-18-2019 at 12:09 PM.
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  19. TopTop #11
    rossmen
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    In the hierarchy of needs survival is king. That's why central planning gets questioned. And trump got elected. The majority believe borders can be protected. To question this is interesting, and appropriate. Of course intelligent, historically accurate questioning moves beyond boarders. The green new deal reminds me of sugar cane fuel in Brazil. Another example of the crowd sourcing intelligence of raw capitalism. How do you plan to survive? That's the problem I have with climate scientists, the honest ones don't think it's possible. Such a bummer!

    Quote podfish wrote: View Post
    yeah, this is part of why 5G doesn't get me very excited, it's kind of a first-world problem compared to what seems to be inevitable major climate change...
    Last edited by Barry; 04-19-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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    M/M
  21. TopTop #12
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    more information coming out re: melting permafrost and warming:
    Thawing Permafrost Emitting Higher Levels of Potent Greenhouse Gas Than Previously Thought:
    Additional related articles: Fires seem to be happening @ 54 and 55 degrees latitude:
    https://www.sott.net/article/411627-...onegal-Ireland

    a "running wildfire" in the foothills of the Mourne Mountains in County Down
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-48010513

    https://www.euronews.com/2019/04/21/...ges-in-siberia
    ZABAIKAL SIBERIA RUSSIA ! 26 APRIL 2019 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLTTzNm4m14

    UK: 3 arrested over West Yorkshire moorland fire on hottest day of year so far
    https://www.sott.net/article/411571-...of-year-so-far

    from February:
    Arthur's Seat-Edinburgh https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/a...-a4077441.html

    Yorkshire UK https://www.sott.net/article/408086-...UK-In-February

    Europe: https://www.euronews.com/2019/03/01/...es-in-february

    Rising global temperatures are creating bubbling, methane lakes you can light on fire
    https://www.businessinsider.com/froz...-change-2019-4
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  23. TopTop #13
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    If you want to hear more about the Green New Deal, it will be the subject of the CAFF/Farm Guild 6 p.m. pot-luck on Mon. May 6 at the Sebastopol Grange, located on Hiway 12 on the way to Santa Rosa. If you plan to come, please bring some food to contribute. The presentations usually start around 7 p.m., if you want to come only for that.
    Last edited by Barry; 05-02-2019 at 01:42 PM.
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  25. TopTop #14
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    One small microcosm of 'sustainable' development in Bay Area . Today KCBS radio ran a story about contention between residents of San Jose re: $100 million land sale to Google by San Jose City Council - that neither Google nor city are transparent re: plans... Related: an article back in December 2018, re: same land sale:
    City Council meeting in San Jose cleared out by police after protest over Google land sale

    Meanwhile, urgency for GOOD plans to help planet are still needed AND need to be looked at in depth - not on basis of catch words nor solely on, seemingly now meaningless, right/left, dem/republican, et cetera advocates:

    May 3, 2019 Environmental Crisis, Oil Geopolitics and the Trump Diversion by Rob Urie

    Pelosi Invokes Obama's Legacy To Kill The 'Green New Deal'
    Last edited by Barry; 05-04-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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  26. TopTop #15
    Shepherd's Avatar
    Shepherd
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Next Tuesday, May 7, there will be a presentation at the Sebastopol Grange, on Highway 12 " 6000, on the left, as you go from Sebastopol to Santa Rosa, on the Green New Deal. It starts with a potluck at 6 p.m., following by a presentation and discussion. All are welcome.

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    One small microcosm of 'sustainable' development in Bay Area . Today KCBS radio ran a story about contention between residents of San Jose re: $100 million land sale to Google by San Jose City Council - that neither Google nor city are transparent re: plans... Related: an article back in December 2018, re: same land sale:
    City Council meeting in San Jose cleared out by police after protest over Google land sale

    Meanwhile, urgency for GOOD plans to help planet are still needed AND need to be looked at in depth - not on basis of catch words nor solely on, seemingly now meaningless, right/left, dem/republican, et cetera advocates:

    May 3, 2019 Environmental Crisis, Oil Geopolitics and the Trump Diversion by Rob Urie

    Pelosi Invokes Obama's Legacy To Kill The 'Green New Deal'
    Last edited by Shepherd; 05-05-2019 at 06:30 PM.
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  27. TopTop #16
    doghairnancy
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Happy to come hear your thoughts on the GND. I feel pretty pessimistic about any mega scale plan brought to us by either business or gummint. The priority for both is spinning a plan the public will swallow and then lining their own pockets.


    Quote Shepherd wrote: View Post
    Next Tuesday, May 7, there will be a presentation at the Sebastopol Grange, on Highway 12, as you go from Sebastopol to Santa Rosa, on the Green New Deal. It starts with a potluck at 6 p.m., following by a presentation and discussion. All are welcome.
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  29. TopTop #17
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote doghairnancy wrote: View Post
    ... I feel pretty pessimistic about any mega scale plan brought to us by either business or gummint. The priority for both is spinning a plan the public will swallow and then lining their own pockets.
    So then what do you suggest?

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  31. TopTop #18
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote doghairnancy wrote: View Post
    Happy to come hear your thoughts on the GND. I feel pretty pessimistic about any mega scale plan brought to us by either business or gummint. The priority for both is spinning a plan the public will swallow and then lining their own pockets.
    I hear you... Good information from scientists including astrophysicists et al, investigative journalism, and public asking detailed questions and not settling for non-answers... including, but not only, getting to bottom of who is funding what... and what interests they really support would be important.

    There is fossil-fuel related warming; there are now three Van Allen belts - how do they affect climate; are thousands of satellites to be launched into space via rockets something that will further denigrate planet; geoengineering is taking place - but no transparency; and there are further out notions of use of fire/flooding and/or other weather modification via weaponry.... Any or all of these may be involved in what we are witnessing...

    Clearly science that says methane from cows means we MUST change our diet - while ignoring the huge eruptions of methane around northern latitudes - isn't giving us the WHOLE picture....

    There is so little transparency .... i hope that our dire state of affairs will mean .... more real and truly relevant information will be shared and solutions that help the whole will be proposed.
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  32. TopTop #19
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    I hear you... Good information from scientists including astrophysicists et al

    There is so little transparency .... i hope that our dire state of affairs will mean .... more real and truly relevant information will be shared and solutions that help the whole will be proposed.
    I heard Jack Kruse MD interviewed. He has MUCH of value to add to discussion... though much of what he says is way over my head. Some samples from his forum - where others contribute food for thought as well:
    https://forum.jackkruse.com/index.ph...f-earth.19041/
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  33. TopTop #20
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    There is so little transparency .... i hope that our dire state of affairs will mean .... more real and truly relevant information will be shared and solutions that help the whole will be proposed.
    From a different vantage point: Technocracy with Patrick M. Wood
    less than 4-minute video at: https://home.solari.com/technocracy-...atrick-m-wood/

    Technocracy is a global system designed to implement central resource management and control through rules-based micromanagement. The growth of technocracy is made possible by digital systems and software, artificial intelligence, and the “one way mirror” managed through 24/7 surveillance by intelligence and enforcement agencies—funded by our tax dollars......

    Seeing and documenting this process is challenging. It requires integration of complex operations across many different industries and governments—and it is protected by extraordinary secrecy afforded to the military-industrial complex and the central banks.

    Despite the challenges, publisher and economist Patrick M. Wood has succeeded in making the technocracy invasion visible. Patrick is the author of Technocracy Rising: The Trojan Horse of Global Transformation and Technocracy: The Hard Road to World Order
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  34. TopTop #21
    podfish's Avatar
    Supporting Member

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    Technocracy is a global system designed to implement central resource management and control through rules-based micromanagement. The growth of technocracy is made possible by digital systems and software, artificial intelligence, and the “one way mirror” managed through 24/7 surveillance by intelligence and enforcement agencies—funded by our tax dollars......
    anything with such a high density of scare/conspiracy buzzwords is suspect. When you add to it a completely made-up definition, it's even sillier. 'global system' 'central.. control', 'micromanagement', '24/7 surveillance' and of course! 'funded by our tax dollars'. Sounds evil as hell, but pretty imaginary. Not that I doubt the idea has its adherents (someone had to make up the new jargon) butt they aren't likely to beat out the guys who are backing any of the autocracies out there now, including ours. The political danger we're in isn't well hidden at all.
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  36. TopTop #22
    luke32
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    First of all, we have to win the election, And beating Trump with a solid 40% approval rating and unemployment at 50 year lows will not be easy. And Ocasio-Cortez' Green New Deal, like Bernie's Medicare for All,is going to be an easy target for Trumpian campaign tactics. The best approach is Nancy Pelosi's Own the Center Left. Own the Mainstream But stay away from frivolity like the Green New Deal. Great subject for freshman college level Poly Sci 101 discussions, but its not going to win an election.

    Also, here's another look at GND: Yes We Need a Green New Deal. Just Not The One Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is Offering
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  38. TopTop #23
    sealwatcher
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Ah, this reminds me of the old white-man saw: I was a radical in my youth but then I saw the light and am now conservative or perhaps an adherent of the Pelosian chill-pill. Let the revolution commence! Let ethics conquer vapidity! Let me step into this phone booth and reveal myself: First vote was for Adlai Stevenson for President. Later I voted P&F. Then Green. Haven't lost traction after all these years. Liking Bernie and Elizabeth and loving the green new deal. Frivolity? My dear man, such a straw man argument!

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    First of all, we have to win the election,...
    Last edited by Barry; 05-06-2019 at 12:58 PM.
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  40. TopTop #24
    luke32
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    and you'll wear those badges on your sleeve in whose inaugural parade in January '21?

    Quote sealwatcher wrote: View Post
    ... First vote was for Adlai Stevenson for President. Later I voted P&F. Then Green. Haven't lost traction after all these years. Liking Bernie and Elizabeth and...
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  41. TopTop #25
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote luke32 wrote: View Post
    First of all, we have to win the election, And beating Trump with a solid 40% approval rating and unemployment at 50 year lows will not be easy.
    Winning election may be your priority before environment... However, for me, given extinction rates, I think we have a better chance of not having our time wasted and/or being checkmated by polar opposites forever.. by uniting around survival... not as corporations and politicians decide, but that works with Nature everywhere....

    About employment... there are figures and there are figures... A good article that invites us to see through faux news: How Accurate Are the April Jobs Numbers? https://www.globalresearch.ca/april-...umbers/5676620
    Bottom line, the U-3 unemployment rate is basically a worthless indicator of the condition of the US jobs market; and the 263,000 CES (Establishment Survey) jobs is contradicted by the Labor Dept’s second CPS survey (Population Survey).

    For a more detailed discussion and explanation of these, and other, contradictory facts about the current US labor market, released by the Labor Dept., listen to my May 3, 2019 Alternative Visions radio show podcast accessible (at the above address).

    Government stats are as much an ‘art’ (of obfuscation) as they are a science. They produce often contradictory indication of the true state of the economy, jobs and wages. Readers need to look at the ‘whole picture’, not just the convenient, selective media reported data like Establishment survey job creation and U-3 unemployment rates.
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  42. TopTop #26
    Barry's Avatar
    Barry
    Founder & Moderator

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote M/M wrote: View Post
    Winning election may be your priority before environment... However, for me, given extinction rates, I think we have a better chance of not having our time wasted and/or being checkmated by polar opposites forever.. by uniting around survival... not as corporations and politicians decide, but that works with Nature everywhere....
    What does that mean?? It's actions and policies of government and corporations that are putting Nature at risk.

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  44. TopTop #27
    caromia333's Avatar
    caromia333
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    While we wait for our government / representatives to take action on climate change - there are so many things we can do right NOW in our own lives and in our communities.

    Here's a website with these POWERFUL actions we can take. How To Start The Revolution
    www.howtostarttherevolution.org

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    What does that mean?? It's actions and policies of government and corporations that are putting Nature at risk.
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  46. TopTop #28
    M/M's Avatar
    M/M
     

    Re: "Word to the Wise: Beware the Green New Deal!"

    Quote Barry wrote: View Post
    What does that mean?? It's actions and policies of government and corporations that are putting Nature at risk.
    Um.... Exxon-Mobil, Shell, pipelines, transport of liquid natural gas etc via rail in US and Canada - and resulting fires, Monsanto, wars without end and weaponry that releases depleted uranium etc, low gas mileage in vehicles, fracking - ruining millions of gallons of water at a clip, attempts to weaken the meaning of 'organic', packaging and waste beyond capacity to deal with same....

    Great article - though not brief:
    Crisis-Afflicted Humanity is like an Alzheimer’s Patient Lost in the Forest


    by Ben Debney

    A couple of very useful quotes are attributed to Einstein. The first is his definition of madness as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The second is his observation about the impossibility of solving problems using the thinking that created them....
    ....
    To get around the dilemma raised by Einstein’s prescient observations then, and find our way out of the forest, we need to firstly to recognise that the insanity that got us into the mind-bendingly colossal fix of global warming isn’t going to get us out of it. We must also therefore recognise the paramount importance of acknowledging the root cause of the thinking involved—not only then, in light of all the comments above, of the climate crisis, but of the dynamics that have rendered us powerless to deal with it.
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