ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!

I have a Dr. friend picking through the proposed Health Care bill. Sure wish others would do the same. Here is some food for thought:

Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed...

FINALLY someone is reading it!! Make sure your reps are too. This person
has been reading the 1000 page house bill and posting it at Twitter..the
bill is worse than you thought

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.

This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)



Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments and benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC
benefits for you. You have no choice!

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens,
illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals' finances and
a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks'
accounts for election funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in
unions & community orgs (ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating a HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will
ration your Healthcare!

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic-appropriate services.
Example: Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups (I.e., ACORN & Americorps) to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Ben Levels for Plans. #AARP members - your health care will be rationed.

PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be
automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST automatically enroll employees into pub opt plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for health care for part-time
employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY employer with a payroll of $400k and above who does not provide pub opt. Pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between $251k & 400k who don't provide pub. Opt pays 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

Pg 195 HC Bill - Officers and employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans' financial and personal records.

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be
treated as tax" Yes, it says that.

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Govt will reduce physician services for
Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors will all be paid the same, regardless of
what specialty you have.

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of doctor's time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

PG 265 Sec 1131 Govt mandates and controls productivity for private HC
industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. Treatment of certain cancer hospitals. Cancer patients:
welcome to rationing!

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what it deems
preventable re-admissions.

Pg 298 Lines 9-11 Doctors who treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission will be penalized by the Govt.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells doctors
what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input required . Can you say ACORN?!!

Pg335 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates establishment of outcome-based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing peeps into Govt plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people.!
WTF. My sis has down syndrome!!

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates more bureaucracy - Telehealth Advisory
Committee. Can you say HC by phone?

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think
Senior Citizens end of life

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct and consult regarding living wills,
durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides approved list of end of
life resources, guiding you in death. Excuse me???!?!?!?

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The
Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "advance care planning consult" will be used frequently
as patient's health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "Advance care consultation" may include an ORDER for
end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end
of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will
have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs. Hello,
ACORN Medical Svcs here!!?

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. One monthly payment to a community-based org. Like ACORN?

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Pg 494-498 Govt will cover Mental Health Services including defining,
creating, rationing those same services

I can't wait to see what's in the last half.

Buy guns, buy gold

Please pay no attention to paranoid rants like this. Barrie

How can it be a paranoid rant if it is being read from the document itself?

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Posted in reply to the post by Barrie:

Please pay no attention to paranoid rants like this. Barrie

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by alanora:

How can it be a paranoid rant if it is being read from the document itself?

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It's not quoting the document, somebody out to protect the insurance industry is paraphrasing, with absurd distortion, the document.

Here's what makes this a "paranoid rant". The indicators are in the capitalized words.
My god, "A GOVT COMMITTEE" will be involved! Obviously nothing could be worse; I guess just by definition. And we do have long precedent of the government being allowed to audit business records (for taxes among other reasons), but I suppose some people really think that's an intrusion too.
But the resistance to rationing particularly bothers me. I'm afraid that's a fear that too many people buy into without thinking it through. Currently we also have rationing. There's always rationing unless there's unlimited supply. One of the claims for the superiority of "the market" is that by attaching monetary value to things the rationing is efficiently done - the price rises until those who don't value the thing enough drop out. 'Course that presumes that those without the money to compete for the service don't get to have the service. A good principal for allocating health care resources, don't you think?

(Yeah, I know that the rising price is supposed to bring new resources... for a variety of reasons I don't think that's working real well here).

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by BizWrangler:

I have a Dr. friend picking through the proposed Health Care bill. Sure wish others would do the same. Here is some food for thought:

Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed...

FINALLY someone is reading it!! Make sure your reps are too. This person
has been reading the 1000 page house bill and posting it at Twitter..the
bill is worse than you thought

Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on
Twitter his findings.

This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)



Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure!!

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments and benefits you get

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

It's not quoting the document, somebody out to protect the insurance industry is paraphrasing, with absurd distortion, the document.

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For instance, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE OBAMA PLAN ABOUT RATIONING, this idea is 100% insurance company propaganda. All the other countries that offer some form of government sponsored health care or health insurance spend less per capita on health and have better out comes. We are near the bottom on infant mortality and other measures of effective health care amongst industrialized nations. Cuba does much better than we do.

Health insurance companies spend 20-30% of what we pay them on their wages, advertising, profit for share holders, etc. This has been much less in the past and would be reduced with COMPETITION from a government plan. Free market needs competition, the current chokehold by a few large insurance companies is not competition, it is a cartel.

What Obama is proposing is paying doctors and hospitals for out come more than procedure. This will prevent them from doing and repeating costly and unnessecary procedures that run up the cost of medicare. Also, they want to pay general practioners more and reduce the pay of specialists to be more in line with what procedures actually cost. I work in a health clinic and think these are excellent ideas.

Barrie :yinyang:

Obamacare? 'The communists have landed'? What is this nonsense?

What is the purpose of this but to create more fear based propaganda to confuse and scatter supporting the creation of a comprehensive national health care plan, one that every major nation enjoys, but for the the good ol' US of A.

A 'Dr. friend picking through' Obama's plan? If that Dr. even did exist, what special interests might he be representing? Perhaps the insurance companies'? Obama's plan is to create an alternative to the insurance company's lock on medical care and spiraling costs in a system that is not sustainable.

This posting uses the same fear tactics of the Bush administration to create a frozen 'Let's stay the course' directive. Look to whom that benefits.

Ironically, in the end, even the insurance companies will go broke.

Warmly,

Rich

Exactly!!!! If you saw Rachel Maddow (and you still can if you go on msnbc.com and dig the show out of the archives) Monday night, you saw lots of damning and specific evidence against those opposing the plan. The main point was that all the nay-sayers are quoting "The Lewin Group" as experts--when this group is OWNED by one of the biggest insurance co.s around!

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Posted in reply to the post by Barrie:

For instance, THERE IS NOTHING IN THE OBAMA PLAN ABOUT RATIONING, this idea is 100% insurance company propaganda. All the other countries that offer some form of government sponsored health care or health insurance spend less per capita on health and have better out comes. We are near the bottom on infant mortality and other measures of effective health care amongst industrialized nations. Cuba does much better than we do.

Health insurance companies spend 20-30% of what we pay them on their wages, advertising, profit for share holders, etc. This has been much less in the past and would be reduced with COMPETITION from a government plan. Free market needs competition, the current chokehold by a few large insurance companies is not competition, it is a cartel.

What Obama is proposing is paying doctors and hospitals for out come more than procedure. This will prevent them from doing and repeating costly and unnessecary procedures that run up the cost of medicare. Also, they want to pay general practioners more and reduce the pay of specialists to be more in line with what procedures actually cost. I work in a health clinic and think these are excellent ideas.

Barrie :yinyang:

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Please watch the movie, SICKO, again. Obama is a highly intelligent man, working diligently to make our country a better place. He's not, however a magician and there's no magic solution to our problems, most of which have been caused by past and present good ol' boy power mongers, who would love to "bring down Obama!", so they can get on with business as usual. Obama is not perfect, but he is doing his best, against great odds. I think, the least we can do, is not fall for (inaccurate!) fear mongering, like what is written in this rant, on wacco. When you read the actual facts for yourself, it's a totally different story:

BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN FOR A HEALTHY AMERICA
Lowering health care costs and ensuring affordable, high-quality health care for all
The U.S. spends over $2 trillion on health care every year, and offers the best medical technology and scientific
research in the world. Yet, the benefits of the American health care system come at a price that an increasing
number of individuals and families, employers and employees, and public and private providers cannot afford.
Millions of Americans are uninsured or underinsured because of rising medical costs. Nearly 45 million
Americans—including 9 million children—lack health insurance.
Health care costs are skyrocketing.Health insurance premiums have risen 4 times faster than wages over the
past 6 years. Lack of affordable health care is compounded by serious flaws in our health care delivery system.
About 100,000 Americans die from medical errors in hospitals every year.
Too little is spent on prevention and public health. The nation faces epidemics of obesity and chronic
diseases as well as new threats of pandemic flu and bioterrorism. Yet despite all of this less than 4 cents of
every health care dollar is spent on prevention and public health.
Obama’s plan will provide affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage for all Americans by:
• Making available a new national health program that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy
affordable health care similar to that available to federal employees. No one will be turned away or
charged more due to illness, and everyone who needs it will receive a subsidy for their premiums.
• Making available a National Health Insurance Exchange to reform the private insurance market. Any
American could enroll in participating private plans, which would have to provide comprehensive
benefits, issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums.
• Ensuring all of the 9 million currently uninsured children have affordable, high-quality health coverage
• Expanding Medicaid and SCHIP and ensuring they continue to serve their critical safety net function.
• Requiring employers to make a meani
• Requiring that insurance plans accept all applicants and do not charge different prices based on
pre-existing conditions.
ngful contribution to the health coverage of their employees.
Obama’s plan will reduce costs and save a typical American family up to $2,500 each year:
• Driving adoption of state-of-the-art health information technology systems
• Improving access to preventive care and chronic disease management programs
• Requiring hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
• Reforming our market structure to increase competition in the insurance and drug markets
• Reducing the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees
• Lowering drug costs by allowing importation of safe medicines from other developed countries and
increasing use of generics in public programs
Obama’s plan will promote public health by:
• Requiring coverage of preventive services
• Increasing state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Gayla:

Please watch the movie, SICKO, again. Obama is a highly intelligent man, working diligently to make our country a better place. He's not, however a magician and there's no magic solution to our problems, most of which have been caused by past and present good ol' boy power mongers, who would love to "bring down Obama!", so they can get on with business as usual. Obama is not perfect, but he is doing his best, against great odds. I think, the least we can do, is not fall for (inaccurate!) fear mongering, like what is written in this rant, on wacco. When you read the actual facts for yourself, it's a totally different story:

BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN FOR A HEALTHY AMERICA
Lowering health care costs and ensuring affordable, high-quality health care for all
The U.S. spends over $2 trillion on health care every year, and offers the best medical technology and scientific
research in the world. Yet, the benefits of the American health care system come at a price that an increasing
number of individuals and families, employers and employees, and public and private providers cannot afford.
Millions of Americans are uninsured or underinsured because of rising medical costs. Nearly 45 million
Americans—including 9 million children—lack health insurance.
Health care costs are skyrocketing.Health insurance premiums have risen 4 times faster than wages over the
past 6 years. Lack of affordable health care is compounded by serious flaws in our health care delivery system.
About 100,000 Americans die from medical errors in hospitals every year.
Too little is spent on prevention and public health. The nation faces epidemics of obesity and chronic
diseases as well as new threats of pandemic flu and bioterrorism. Yet despite all of this less than 4 cents of
every health care dollar is spent on prevention and public health.
Obama’s plan will provide affordable, comprehensive and portable health coverage for all Americans by:
• Making available a new national health program that will allow individuals and small businesses to buy
affordable health care similar to that available to federal employees. No one will be turned away or
charged more due to illness, and everyone who needs it will receive a subsidy for their premiums.
• Making available a National Health Insurance Exchange to reform the private insurance market. Any
American could enroll in participating private plans, which would have to provide comprehensive
benefits, issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums.
• Ensuring all of the 9 million currently uninsured children have affordable, high-quality health coverage
• Expanding Medicaid and SCHIP and ensuring they continue to serve their critical safety net function.
• Requiring employers to make a meani
• Requiring that insurance plans accept all applicants and do not charge different prices based on
pre-existing conditions.
ngful contribution to the health coverage of their employees.
Obama’s plan will reduce costs and save a typical American family up to $2,500 each year:
• Driving adoption of state-of-the-art health information technology systems
• Improving access to preventive care and chronic disease management programs
• Requiring hospitals to collect and report health care cost and quality data
• Reforming our market structure to increase competition in the insurance and drug markets
• Reducing the costs of catastrophic illnesses for employers and their employees
• Lowering drug costs by allowing importation of safe medicines from other developed countries and
increasing use of generics in public programs
Obama’s plan will promote public health by:
• Requiring coverage of preventive services
• Increasing state and local preparedness for terrorist attacks and natural disasters.

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Some of the above sounds great but it reads like a sales pitch for the bill...
So what does the bill actually say? does anyone in this discussion actually know? Who has read it?
It's supposed to be 1000 pages. Anyone have a link for it?
I wonder how all this government intervention will be paid for? Raising taxes most likely. Germans may have a great health care system but they pay 60% or more in income taxes (have heard from German friends who live there). With our government trillions of dollars in debt how is all this government oversight going to be paid for?
Personally, I don't want to have to pay into a sick care industry/big pharma that I don't want to have anything to do with unless I need emergency care. I don't hear anything in this that is promoting prevention, education and focusing on improving the health of Americans.

Mike Adams, "the Health Ranger" has 2 articles worth reading:

https://www.naturalnews.com/026628_h...alth_care.html

https://www.naturalnews.com/026693_d...a_disease.html

He sites some interesting points and facts near the end of the article about increases of government ownership of things in recent times which we should keep in mind. Bigger government with more government control is where we are still headed and it doesn't look appealing from where I sit!
If you only have time to read one article on this then
I encourage everyone interested in this topic to go to this link:

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...n-to-Change-US

and listen to Rep. Dr. Ron Paul's analysis about health care in the U.S. - how we got to where we are today, what could work and what probably won't, and then read the article that follows it by Dr. Mercola which in his usual style is quite level headed and well thought out.
I think we all need to understand more about this plan and not just approve on the basis of some of the assumptions I have heard in this discussion. This is an important topic and we can participate in the shaping of health care reform so we can end up with something everyone will be happier with rather than simply approve of what our government hands us without really looking at what it is.
Thanks for considering my views.

Don't worry, the insurance industry's grip on our nation's health care is in no danger. They will continue to gouge the American public, continue to provide pathetically poor health care, and corporate shills will continue their downright evil disinformation campaign.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by DancingDeva:

Some of the above sounds great but it reads like a sales pitch for the bill...
So what does the bill actually say? does anyone in this discussion actually know? Who has read it?
It's supposed to be 1000 pages. Anyone have a link for it?
I wonder how all this government intervention will be paid for? Raising taxes most likely. Germans may have a great health care system but they pay 60% or more in income taxes (have heard from German friends who live there). With our government trillions of dollars in debt how is all this government oversight going to be paid for?
Personally, I don't want to have to pay into a sick care industry/big pharma that I don't want to have anything to do with unless I need emergency care. I don't hear anything in this that is promoting prevention, education and focusing on improving the health of Americans.

Mike Adams, "the Health Ranger" has 2 articles worth reading:

U.S. Senate Health Committee Passes Health Care Reform Bill that will Bankrupt America by Mike Adams the Health Ranger

The New Mr. America: Bankrupt, Diseased and Running Out of Options by Mike Adams the Health Ranger

He sites some interesting points and facts near the end of the article about increases of government ownership of things in recent times which we should keep in mind. Bigger government with more government control is where we are still headed and it doesn't look appealing from where I sit!
If you only have time to read one article on this then
I encourage everyone interested in this topic to go to this link:

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...n-to-Change-US

and listen to Rep. Dr. Ron Paul's analysis about health care in the U.S. - how we got to where we are today, what could work and what probably won't, and then read the article that follows it by Dr. Mercola which in his usual style is quite level headed and well thought out.
I think we all need to understand more about this plan and not just approve on the basis of some of the assumptions I have heard in this discussion. This is an important topic and we can participate in the shaping of health care reform so we can end up with something everyone will be happier with rather than simply approve of what our government hands us without really looking at what it is.
Thanks for considering my views.

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I believe the HR3200 doc can be downloaded in its entire form at:

https://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi...=f:h3200ih.pdf

Peace,

- Rex

The bill can be found at:

https://edlabor.house.gov/documents/...ext-071409.pdf

A random check of more than 30 of the pages referenced in the original post, were found exactly as quoted.

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Posted in reply to the post by dandss1:

A random check of more than 30 of the pages referenced in the original post, were found exactly as quoted.

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That's funny, the very first one I checked, at random, wasn't a quote at all.

The OP's version:

"PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental and purchase of power driven
wheelchairs"

The actual page;

268
PART 3—OTHER PROVISIONS
1
SEC. 1141. RENTAL AND PURCHASE OF POWER-DRIVEN
2
WHEELCHAIRS.
3
(a) INGENERAL.—Section 1834(a)(7)(A)(iii) of the
4
Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395m(a)(7)(A)(iii)) is
5
amended—
6
(1) in the heading, by inserting ‘‘CERTAINCOM-
7
PLEXREHABILITATIVE’’ after ‘‘OPTIONFOR’’; and
8
(2) by striking ‘‘power-driven wheelchair’’ and
9
inserting ‘‘complex rehabilitative power-driven wheel-
10
chair recognized by the Secretary as classified within
11
group 3 or higher’’.
12
(b) EFFECTIVEDATE.—The amendments made by
13
subsection (a) shall take effect on January 1, 2011, and
14
shall apply to power-driven wheelchairs furnished on or
15
after such date. Such amendments shall not apply to con-
16
tracts entered into under section 1847 of the Social Secu-
17
rity Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w–3) pursuant to a bid submitted
18
under such section before October 1, 2010, under sub-
19
section (a)(1)(B)(i)(I) of such section.
20

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Posted in reply to the post by BizWrangler:

I have a Dr. friend picking through the proposed Health Care bill. Sure wish others would do the same. Here is some food for thought:

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Spin doctor.:Yinyangv:

:hello: I'm not so sure exactly how to state this, but I will try to be as concise as I can: 1; I received what looks to be a private e-mail from: "Judith N", that stated this:

“No, actually he is a brain surgeon in Berkeley. His name is Dr. Robert Fink. "What we see depends mainly on what we look for."”

…in regards to my spin doctor comment.
2; as far as I can tell, the original post had nothing to do with Dr. Robert Fink.
3; I am perplexed why I got that as a private e-mail instead of it being a post on the topic; or why it is not on the bulletin board or somewhere in this topic thread, publicly.:hmmm:
4; I did another Internet search with this title: Obamacare-Are you paying attention? And did come up with the exact text, which was the original post on this topic thread: https://www.rememberourconstitution....ing-attention/
5; sometimes I do miss things, and sometimes I do forget things, and sometimes I overlook things; so I spent quite a bit of time today trying to figure out if I overlooked, missed, or forgotten anything here. I have come to the conclusion that I am not the one that is off base here.:idea:
6; maybe this was edited out of the “reply publicly”, and I did not see it before it was removed?
7; I did an Internet search for: Robert A. Fink, M. D. and I found a web page with some writing that the Dr. wrote specifically in regards to the so-called health care reform.
The web page, I found did not have the high “spin” level that was in the original post of this topic. Actually, none, no “spin” whatsoever.:yinyang:
The article was copyright, so I only copied a couple of sentences from it and added a link so whoever wants to can go to the link and read the whole article. (Link is in the highlighted sentence of the text in the second table [box].).
I basically agree with what this doctor (Robert A. Fink, M. D.) in this article said.:wink:
BTW; the doctor that wrote this article (Robert A. Fink, M. D.) from what I can tell is very professional and he is not a “spin doctor”.:heart:
The way that original post topic was written, you wouldn't know it or, maybe it was a different doctor or a different web page than the one that I found, which I linked to. After searching the Internet, I can confirm that, yes it is a different person and a different URL altogether.:thumbsup:
8;

BizWrangler wrote, and or quoted: “Peter Fleckstein (aka Fleckman) is reading it and has been posting on Twitter his findings. This is from his postings (Note: All comments are Fleckman's)”

Aha! Fleckman is the spin doctor; no?:nod:
9; I'm wondering how did “Dr. Robert Fink’s” name get into this conversation in the first place other than the private e-mail that I received in my inbox?:thinking:
10; :sorry:, I am not into twitter.


I (Hotspring 44) personally think “we the people” have to in essence, ramrod single-payer health care into the discussion, and then support it. Otherwise, like I said in a different post on a different topic; we “the people” are going to get “screwed”.:2cents:

Dr. Robert Fink Wrote in his website: … “I feel that some form of universal health care coverage, and probably with a "single-payer" infrastructure, is an idea whose time has come.”… _________________________ … … “This will put a stop to the ill-advised, unfair, and morally reprehensible schemes of capitation now being foisted upon an unsuspecting public in the name of "managed care", "managed competition", or managed anything.”

I guess the other option is "business as usual". Meaning the private insurers will try their best to deny a claim and if they can't, they will cheat the provider as much as possible.

Wake up people!!!! Health Care is a right, not a benefit to be bestowed by those who do not care......:hmmm:

Public health care does not scare me.

But people like you do scare me, and a lot. You also make me very angry.

Edward

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Posted in reply to the post by BizWrangler:

I have a Dr. friend picking through the proposed Health Care bill. Sure wish others would do the same. Here is some food for thought:

Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed...

...

Buy guns, buy gold

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Drug Industry To Run Ads Favoring ObamaCare

WASHINGTON — The drug industry has authorized its lobbyists to spend as much as $150 million on television commercials supporting President Obama’s health care overhaul, beginning over the August Congressional recess, people briefed on the plans said Saturday.
The unusually large scale of the industry’s commitment to the cause helps explain some of a contentious back-and-forth playing out in recent days between the odd-couple allies over a deal that the White House struck with the industry in June to secure its support. The terms of the deal were not fully disclosed. Both sides had announced that the drug industry would contribute $80 billion over 10 years to the cost of the health care overhaul without spelling out the details...

link to the NY Times article

"grassroots" support for ObamaCare all over the internet

link

link

Ho hum... same old rhetoric... I have a friend in Mauritius who is part of the "health care system"... They love it... Every citizen is given basic health care. And you know what? Prescriptions are on average, 25% of our (patient)cost. One entitiy buys the drugs for the whole country. Big discount when you buy direct in large quantities... By the way, prescriptions are sometimes not filled by patients because they cannot afford them here in the US...What a shame...

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Posted in reply to the post by d-cat:

Drug Industry To Run Ads Favoring ObamaCare

WASHINGTON — The drug industry has authorized its lobbyists to spend as much as $150 million on television commercials supporting President Obama’s health care overhaul, beginning over the August Congressional recess, people briefed on the plans said Saturday.
The unusually large scale of the industry’s commitment to the cause helps explain some of a contentious back-and-forth playing out in recent days between the odd-couple allies over a deal that the White House struck with the industry in June to secure its support. The terms of the deal were not fully disclosed. Both sides had announced that the drug industry would contribute $80 billion over 10 years to the cost of the health care overhaul without spelling out the details...

link to the NY Times article

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CNN's coverage of the above story:
link to video clip

and some articles about the industry that is pushing ObamaCare:


A New Low in Drug Research: 21 Fabricated Studies
link


Merck Drew Up “Hit List” of Doctors to be “Neutralized”
AN international drug company made a hit list of doctors who had to be "neutralised" or discredited because they criticised the anti-arthritis drug the pharmaceutical giant produced.
link


Drug firms' cash skews doctor classes
link


Drug Company Money is Top Factor in Publication of Vaccine Studies
link


Harvard Medical School Professors are Paid Big Bucks by Big Pharma to Push Meds
link


Lilly Sold Drug for Dementia Knowing It Didn’t Help
link


A Possible Cure for Diabetes Ignored by Big Pharma
link


Eli Lilly Pays $1.42 Billion for Illegal Marketing of Deadly Drug
Zyprexa causes severe neurological problems in children and can be deadly for the elderly, and it has no proven benefit for either -- but Eli Lilly marketed the antipsychotic to them anyway.
link


Marketing Lilly's Phony 'Miracle' Drug Zyprexa
Created to treat schizophrenia, Zyprexa wound up being used on misbehaving kids. How the pharmaceutical industry turned a flawed and dangerous drug into a $16 billion bonanza
link


Bayer Knowingly Sold HIV-Contaminated Vaccines, Say Internal Documents
link


Bayer Exposed (HIV Contaminated Vaccine)
link


Nobel prize row over pharmaceuticals firm link
link


Baxter, Supplier Say Heparin Taint Was Deliberate
April 29 (Bloomberg) -- Baxter International Inc. said its blood thinner heparin, linked to 81 deaths, appears to have been deliberately contaminated. The drug's main ingredient was contaminated before reaching the Chinese factory of Baxter's supplier...
link


Government Swine Flu Advisor On Vaccine Maker Payroll
link


Drug groups to reap swine-flu billions
link


Vaccine Doctor Given at Least $30 Million Dollars to Push Vaccines
link

Here is a reality from a friend, she has sent this email to me during a discussion we were having about health care. It started like this:
I wrote:
Please click on the link below and sign up (type your first and last name and email address that’s all) if you think that the members of congress and other government officials and their families should be forced to participate in a government run health care plan themselves?
www.fleming.house.gov/. (Go Ahead Waccos)


My friend wrote back:

I would have been very happy to have ANY health insurance during my recent hospital stay. Those who can afford to be choosy are fortunate. The surgeons and hospital saved my life but I will lose my home to pay them. My work doesn’t give us any insurance or sick leave. And Yes, It probably will be that bad, I just don’t have enough money and spent all my savings while I was out sick. I owe over 100k to about a dozen different organizations because of the surgery – some of the doctors I didn’t even know I’d seen! Crazy - The bills are coming in and they want paid NOW – they just don’t understand. Very frustrating – and then my work cut down our hours while I was in the hospital. But on the other hand at least I’m still here to complain about it:thumbsup: Take care, Friend Name Here

I wrote:
We are a small operation compared. (Only three people working here) We have NO Coverage what-so-ever! Its scary! Wow! For people like you and me this healthcare issue is fraught with probs.


She wrote:
30 people working here and an office in Hong Kong – so size doesn’t matter! Yes – I am SO GRATEFUL everything came out ok – LITERALLY!

I wrote:
I am sorry for what you are going through.
Thank you God that you ARE still here!
Try to have a good day!


This is sooooo ridiculous! Why does it have to be this way???? I am getting older now. 4 years from 50, I wonder what if anything will affect me in the future, or if I will have to have some major operation. I have no assets to lose really so, no turnip blood here. I have no regular doctor, I haven't been to a doctor, except the medical clinic in Guerneville…THANK GOD FOR THEM!!! I only have to pay a fraction of a regular doctor visit, because of what I make. But even then sometimes it is just out of my reach and I have to wait for a pay day to visit them.

I hope something good happens, I know that there are a lot of people out there who are passionate about this debate, and with the reasons above I am not surprised. This has not hit that close to home for me YET, because I am basically healthy.
But I bet there are millions of situation like what is mentioned here.
:2cents:

I believe that members of congress and other government officials and their families are already on a government run health plan, one that most Americans would be very grateful to have.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Lorrie:

Here is a reality from a friend, she has sent this email to me during a discussion we were having about health care. It started like this:
I wrote:
Please click on the link below and sign up (type your first and last name and email address that’s all) if you think that the members of congress and other government officials and their families should be forced to participate in a government run health care plan themselves?

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At age 65, I moved from a private insurance carrier that was bleeding us dry (premiums greater than our mortgage, with no options because of a pre-existing condition that had never cost a cent to the insurer) to a "government-run" plan, i.e. Medicare.

Oddly, I didn't feel any twinge of anti-Americanism or fascist oppression coming down on me. I experienced vastly lower premiums, a chance to afford a long-delayed colonoscopy and repair of an umbilical hernia without the vast deductibles that would have hit us pre-65.

And somehow I'm still under the naive illusion that whichever government bureaucrats are deciding which treatments will or will not be covered as I approach geezerhood, they're likely to be a bit more merciful than my previous Blue Cross "death panel."

Peace & joy—
Conrad B.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:

At age 65, I moved from a private insurance carrier that was bleeding us dry (premiums greater than our mortgage, with no options because of a pre-existing condition that had never cost a cent to the insurer) to a "government-run" plan, i.e. Medicare.

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which I understand is broke

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by d-cat:

which I understand is broke

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So are the schools and our highway system, due to corporate America sucking the lifeblood out of the system.

Shall we close the schools and shut down the freeways because we're broke?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

I believe that members of congress and other government officials and their families are already on a government run health plan, one that most Americans would be very grateful to have.

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THIS JUST IN...my email...


YESTERDAY ON "ABC-TV" (BETTER KNOWN AS THE ALL BARRACK CHANNEL) DURING THE "NETWORK SPECIAL ON HEALTH CARE".... OBAMA WAS ASKED:

"MR. PRESIDENT WILL YOU AND YOUR FAMILY GIVE UP YOUR CURRENT HEALTH CARE PROGRAM AND JOIN THE NEW 'UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM' THAT THE REST OF US WILL BE ON ????"..... (BET YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER)...

THERE WAS A STONEY SILENCE AS OBAMA IGNORED THE QUESTION AND CHOSE NOT TO ANSWER IT !!!...

IN ADDITION, A NUMBER OF SENATORS WERE ASKED THE SAME QUESTION AND THERE RESPONSE WAS..."WE WILL THINK ABOUT IT."

AND THEY DID. IT WAS ANNOUNCED TODAY ON THE NEWS THAT THE "KENNEDY HEALTH CARE BILL" WAS WRITTEN INTO THE NEW HEALTH CARE REFORM INITIATIVE ENSURING THAT CONGRESS WILL BE 100% EXEMPT !

SO, THIS GREAT NEW HEALTH CARE PLAN THAT IS GOOD FOR YOU AND I... IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR OBAMA, HIS FAMILY OR CONGRESS...?? WE (THE AMERICAN PUBLIC) NEED TO STOP THIS PROPOSED DEBACLE ASAP !!!!... THIS IS TOTALLY WRONG !!!!!

PERSONALLY, I CAN ONLY ACCEPT A UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE OVERHAUL THAT EXTENDS TO EVERYONE... NOT JUST US LOWLY CITIZENS... WHILE THE WASHINGTON "ELITE" KEEP RIGHT ON WITH THEIR GOLD-PLATED HEALTH CARE COVERAGES.

IF YOU AGREE PLEASE PASS THIS ON ....IF NOT PLAN TO SUFFER WITH THE OBAMA HEALTH CARE PLAN ....FOR FREE.... WHILE OUR SELF-SERVING POLITICIANS MAKE SURE THAT THEY TAKE CARE OF THEIR BUTTS AT OUR EXPENSE.

Neither Social Security or Medicare would be nearing break even (they're not yet costing more than contributions) if all the funds contributed since inception had actually been put into a fund and earned interest. Government immediately spends what comes in every year on general operations and then prints those IOU's putting T-Bills in a drawer in West Virginia. Sort of like a Ponzi sceme. Take from current "investors" to pay the earlier ones off till the new funds dry up and its game over.

So its pay as you go every year and in about 8-10 years more or less it tips the other way when yearly costs exceed contributions.

If the last administration hadn't added the drug benefit paying retail cost for all prescription drugs the road to ruin would have taken a lot longer. Plus there's that outdated cap on social security earnings - somewhere around $120,000 when it should be unlimited. It would satisfy some public outrage if Wall Street mega-millionnaires paid soical security on all their salary and bonus.

>Which I understand is broke.

Not as broke as I'd be if I didn't have it.

The issue of funding is a different issue. As with Social Security, there are a number of proposals. Which of those you favor depends on your education, your income sources, and your social class. Personally, I'd favor payroll tax reform to remove the exemption of the vast proportion of the income of high wage-earners -- no question but that this is a highly regressive tax, and taxing only earned income and not investment income is equally so. However, I don't expect those proposals to fly, as most Americans think that (a) any tax increase will inevitably cost them another nickel, no matter how specifically it's targeted, and (b) they all think they're going to win the Lottery and would hate to lose that extra 2% of the $65 million they'll get shoved into their pocket. It's called "voting your aspirations."

But my post wasn't addressing the issue of financing (which is unquestionably a significant issue). It was addressing the RightWing/Libertarian bogeyman of "government control." A Libertarian will assume, I think, that Blue Cross has a stronger stake in my health, that I'd be better off in their hands, than a Medicare administrator. I don't buy it.

-Conrad