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The Barlow management has applied for a permit to have a competing Sunday farmers market. we have talked about this before on WACCO and there was alot of feeling expressed that we should stay at the plaza and that it would be a bloody shame if the Barlow decided to compete on the same day. Beware...they are.
this would tear our community apart....why do it?
There are a number of farmers markets as we all know and why would the BARLOW compete with the PLaza farmers market- that is just being ornery in my mind. Why not be creative - what about doing a craft fair weekly. I for one am looking for a place to sell my items. If the cost is low like the farmers market then more crafts persons could participate.
I like what the BARLOW is offering as a gathering of vendors and a fun place to visit. You have presented an original creative image- now keep it up. Why cause discontent by competing. Be a good neighbor and "DO YOUR OWN THING!
I just found out that a storage service in Fort Myers is renting to artists and crafts persons. They can run the unit like a small store. NOW that is original and creative. I love the idea of having a small store that is not expensive. They open on SAT during season and every other during summer. Yet one can open whenever. I like this -
MY two cents here - I dont like to see anger and nastiness and opening a market at the same time and on the same day that is what will pursue. Maybe rethink your options. Hopefully you will take a more community oriented stance.
Namaste:thumbsup:
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Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
I find this horrific, mean- spirited and far from community minded. I am really aghast that they are doing this and I hear they have written to all the Sunday market farmers trying to lure them away from the long-standing market at the plaza. WHY would they want to do this? It is nothing but divisive and hostile in my mind! Why do they have to try to have a market at the exact same time as the existing one? Why did they renege on their very clear agreement to move the existing market to the Barlow? If they must do a separate one, why can't they do it on a different day? Or why can't they do crafts and entertainment to complement the existing market.
I was part of a group that tried to mediate on this topic and we were completely shined on. I have been a big supporter of the Barlow, but no more. Not with this hostile community dividing move that they insist on making. They are asking for trouble and they are going to get it! This is a really bad foot to step out with Barlow folks - I hope you are listening.
I have lived in this community for many years - and this is the FIRST time I have said a peep on WACCO. This issue is serious Barlow! Do not do a farmers market on Sunday - do something on another day or night. This is not good community manners. Do you live here? There are many loyal, trustworthy folks that live here and I'm kinda surprised you haven't noticed! Please be mindful of your actions and consider what has been here long before you.
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Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
The Sebastopol Farmer's market is considered the best in Northern California and is the heart of our commonunity .
If Barlow won't respect this and competes then i hope their whole project is boycotted and fails miserably ....
I want the Barlow to succeed not fail. It is a wonderful addition to the area yet it is always good to work with the community and play nice. The actions of the owners or managers does not necessarily reflect those who are part of the project.
Please make this a win win for everyone.
Thank you
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Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
more news...the Barlow is requesting 100 vendors...the Sebastopol Farm market has about 50. how much money could each of 150 farmers selling on a Sunday make? The Sebastopol Farm market works hard to help small farmers make a living ......so they can keep farming.
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Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
{my impression } The Barlow is an ill-conceived project { too large , too big an investment , too much reliant on wineries } that is a behemoth and will do anything to survive . They months ago { on Wacco } said they wanted our input and to work with us and we told them NO SUNDAYS farmer's market competition . Well , now they realize that their large size and investment requires that they can not forgo capturing the Sunday traffic-business that is the Sebastopol Farmer's market { like how Walmart cannabilizes its' competition to survive }. Because of their over-size and over-investment , they now realize they must have this Sunday traffic and have little choice if they want to make-ends-meet and survive . BAD PLANNING on their part !!!!! and so now they seek to destroy our origional market {with 100 vendors more - crazy !!!!! }.
Bob Dylan said, "Money doesn't talk it swears"...Trying to lure the vendors away is so underhanded and an attempt to undermine the current market. They probably are thinking of ways to out do the current market, what a shame.
The Barlow did not grow organically out of the needs of the town like the farmer's market did. It is a "virtual shopping center" for profit. I do respect many of the businesses that are trying to open there and so I feel sad that they are not being managed in a respectful way.
The only reason it got approved so easily, by only having to go through the Design Review process, was because they were supposedly keeping 51% of the old Barlow.
From what I see I don't think that's what happened.
Activist-at-large,
magick
I live in Santa Rosa and have experienced the last months since our Santa Rosa Farmers Market fiasco which caused a rift that resulted in two markets limping along and no one is doing well. For years I enjoyed the meeting friends by chance and community conversation, and the friendly venders offering wonderful products, doing a good business. I recently told a friend I felt caught in the middle of a dysfunctional family feud and the spirit of the purpose of the market has been completely lost, with no concern for those of us who valued the community event.
The vendors at both markets have felt a drop in their revenue, and the drop in the attendance that created the sense of community has been disheartening. I truly hope there is another option for Sebastopol to resolve these issues other than this type of disintegration of the wonderful community event that has brought me to Sebastopol on a Sunday morning many times.
In addition to telling the Barlow what you think of a competing Sunday market, there is an easy way to kill this ill-conceived idea. If they are dumb enough to go ahead with a Sunday Farmer's market, DON"T BUY THERE!
I have been reading all of the posts under this thread and was going to stay out of this fracus, but upon sober reflection, I now feel compelled to add my opinion to the fray.
As almost everyone who lives in this community knows, the Sebastopol Farmers Market which is held on Sunday in the town plaza is a very popular, well-attended event. People go there to shop, meet friends, discuss the important issues of the day and to participate in that one thing that I like to think serves as the glue which makes Sebastopol so unique and attractive to so many of us: a sense of COMMUNITY. Sure, fruits vegetables and sweet treats are good, but who among us doesn't believe that community is better? Not many, I'll bet.
And so it is with a great deal of shock and dismay that I have learned that not only has the Barlow applied for a permit to hold a competing farmer's market on SUNDAY, but that they are ACTIVELY RECRUITING its long-time -- and, hopefully, loyal -- vendors as well. If this isn't akin to rubbing a copious amount of salt on the wound, I don't know what is.
Given the fact that some of the "powers that be" over at the Barlow have local community ties, some which go back many, many years, I find it inexcusable that they are engaging in this kind of conduct. They say "Where's there's smoke, there's fire." Since several of them must well know by now, when it comes to Sebastopol and it's sense of community, the old adage can be amended to: "Where's there's a candle flame there's a bonfire."
And I'm afraid that that bonfire has been lit, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
I am calling on the powers that be over at the Barlow to abandon their no-compromise policy and to agree to a compromise, or else there will no way out of the present donnybrook in which they now find themselves.
To that end, I am proposing the following compromise, for the good of the community:
1. That the Barlow powers that be cease and desist IMMEDIATELY from their active recruitment of the vendors of the Sunday Farmers Market held in the plaza;
2. They then abandon their present plans forthwith to hold a competing market on Sundays at the Barlow;
3. That they agree to hold any farmer's market at the Barlow on any other day of the week, including Saturday but EXCLUDING SUNDAY.
I ask that you consider this in earnest for the good of this community. Not only will the vendors which you may secure for the new market be better off, since they will not have to compete with their counterparts at the original Sebastopol Farmers Market, but you will hopefully be able to start repairing any damage to your previously good reputation brought about by your recent misguided actions.
The decision rests with you.
But remember this: The "C" word still means something in Sebastopol
nature, nature nature...trees, plants and outdoors
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Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
What I just don't understand is this: Why would the owners of the Barlow want to tarnish their exciting grand opening that most of the community is behind with such a divisive issue right off the bat?? Why not work to generate good will? This is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth. I hope they decide to withdraw their application - at least for now - or submit a new one for a different day.
I suggest everyone talk to the vendors--our friends--at the Farmer's Market ASAP. Let them know how we feel about a competing Sunday market, and tell them we will not patronize such a market. The beauty of the Sebastopol FM ( and most FMs) is that we customers are in direct contact with the producers, all of whom are small enough to care about what we say and do!
Yeah, that's it! Blackmail, penalize, hold hostage the FARMERS, because HOW DARE they want to go to THaT PLACE that they have been planning to move to for OVER TWO YEARS, before the Barlow said," You're ALL welcome EXCEPT the 70 year old woman who has been PUBLICALLY on the fast track to retirement because it's time to "listen to her body," THE cause of the big split in SR because she was more concerned about her pay raise than paying the rent, and just forked out $24,000 of a $30,000 lawsuit settlement for wrongful acts! I have never heard more SELFISHNESS than you people who want it organic, local, fresh, and in THIS finite space that WE WANT as oppose to THE SPACE where the SFM and Paula Downing advocated for because it offered MORE OPPORTUNITY for MORE FArMERS, MORE parking, SAFER pedestrian and bicycle access, and COVERED thoroughfare for those torrential rains or protecting valuable product from scourging sun. SELFISH, SELFISH, SELFISH!!
BTW... Barry has only allowed me to post an opposing, non-conformist view on the condition that I declare my "role/relationship with the Barlow." I am a resident of Sebastopol, my family has resided here for 100 years (so let's not play the "Who was here FIRST" game, as some have proposed!), AND I SUPPORT FARMERS, I SUPPORT LOCAL AG, I SUPPORT THE BARLOW!!!!
TWO BLOCKS PEOPLE!!' TWO FRIGGIN' BLOCKS!!
GROW UP!!!!!!
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Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp:
In light of Barry's "requirement," I would like to see everyone who's posting against the farmers who voted to move two years ago/against the Barlow for fullfilling their promise, to disclose their "relationship/role" with Paula Downing, because, frankly, she's the ONLY one who has something to loose here.
Nancy, I asked you (privately) to do 2 things:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
1) "Please make clear what your role/relationship is to the proposed market at the Barlow"
2) "and do your best to be respectful"
It seems to me you didn't meet either request.
So, Nancy, are you saying you have no business relationship with The Barlow or the proposed Farmer's Market there aside from (presumably) being a vendor?
And if this the best you can do at being respectful, I'm going to have to revoke your postings priveldges again. Note that it is not because of your support for the FM at The Barlow, but rather how you choose to express yourself.
I would really like to see someone from The Barlow or the proposed Farmer's Market at The Barlow chime in to please explain what your plans are and why you seem to be planning a Sunday market. I also welcome anybody else out there to who supports this decision to chime in. And I ask that everybody be respectful!
I did find this post from The Barlow on Facebook from March 24th:
BarryQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
Whoa!!
As Beavis would have said: "Calm down, Nancy!"
I, too, have roots that go back 100-plus years in Sonoma County, so I agree with you that people shouldn't be playing that game.
I know you, too, and other members of your family, and as you know, I have always had respect for all of you.
I am also acutely aware of the problems that you had with Ms. Downing at the original S.R. Farmers Market when it was held at the Veterans' Memorial Building in Santa Rosa.
I am also sensitive to the fact that your family has been engaged in various agricultural pursuits for most of the time that your family members have resided in Sonoma County.
I, too, have issues with the way you were treated by the original S.R. Farmers Market.
However, what I have attempted to do is I have tried to put personalities and personal issues aside for the good of the Sebastopol community and proposed what I feel is a workable compromise which could potentially be a win-win for all involved.
Nancy, please do NOT take the following question as being antagonistic: Do you honestly and truly believe that two competing farmers markets which are going to be in close proximity to each other, with a combined total of 150 hard-working vendors, are going to be successful trying to do so under the yoke of such fierce competition? ( I predict that relations between the two markets, to put it mildly, will become quite strained within a very short time.)
I do not believe that they will both succeed, and I truly believe that some compromise needs to be made, or else BOTH Farmers Markets will be headed for complete disaster -- and they'll probably take the Barlow down with them. That would be truly tragic for Sebastopol, after the project has garnered so much heretofore favorable fanfare.
Please, I am asking for all involved to let cool heads prevail, engage in the spirit of compromise and move on so that our sense of community can remain intact and we can make the year 2013 in Sebastopol the year that saw two successful farmers markets launched as a result of compromise -- for the good of all involved, and for the good of our community.
Peace to you.
Seriously Barry? I articulated my role/relationship VERY clearly. If I had a "business" relationship, you think I would be stupid enough to be this vocal? So you u don't "like" my disclosure, so you're going to penalize me? Or I've not been "respectful," as oppose to those who want the Balow to "fail" because they don't want to walk two blocks to a more accommodating space, or they want to "boycott" because they prefer the space that has more mature trees, a fourth of the lawn area, and no opportunity to accommodate new and young farmers in our community?! Really.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
I tried to find some background material so as to better understand this issue, and found the following write-up on the Barlow's website:
Farmers Market
We are extremely proud to be the new home of the Sebastopol Farmers' Market!Browse the farmstands filled with fresh Sonoma County fruits and vegetables while enjoying live music and a convivial atmosphere. The beautifully landscaped campus will be safer for children and families, and will provide public restrooms, more parking and less congestion in downtown Sebastopol.
Covered awnings will provide a space for the Farmers' Market to continue their operation year round and amenities such as an outdoor stage and children's playground will make the Barlow not only a space to conduct business, but a place for people to come together and spend time with friends and family.
"I don't have words to express what The Barlow project will mean to the Farmers Market and the City of Sebastopol...a lot!
It is the realization of a dream that many people have nurtured for awhile:
The (Farmers) market itself will be able to breathe. We are in a sweet space but we are so crammed and crowded. The thought that we can expand our play ground a little bit is really enticing."
-Paula Downing, Sebastopol Farmers Market
Apparently, the move of our Farmer's Market to the Barlow has been planned for a long time, and the vendors had already "signed on" ... or at least, the Market Manager (Paula Downing) was in favor of the move and - presumably - represented the interests of many or most of the participating farmers. (maybe not?)
There are two key factors that would be different if our Farmer's Market moved to the Barlow: 1) it would be in a different location, two blocks away from the current location and 2) it would include about twice as many vendors.
I don't see why there would be two simultaneous and competing markets, which certainly does sound divisive and problematic. It seems to me that the idea was to move the entire existing market to the Barlow, a larger and (according to Paula Downing) better space. AND, there would be more vendors included.
So, I'm trying to find out what the upset is about. Is it that having twice the number of vendors would make it impossible or difficult for most of them to get enough revenue? (splitting the revenue pie in too many and too small pieces?) Or is it that the attendees don't want to relocate, even if the vendors are happy to do so? Or both? Or something else that i'm missing? Is it that some of the vendors want to relocate, and others don't?
When I first started reading this thread, I agreed that a competing Market on Sundays would be bad and messy ... but when i got more information and understood that the ENTIRE market, under Downing's Management, had been planning to relocate to the Barlow site ... that did not seem like a problem to me. Maybe a problem for those of us who are attached to the current location, but not such a big deal if the Vendors all want to move to the new site. We'd probably become attached to the new location (assuming it's got a good feeling ... which I don't know and we'd all probably have different opinions anyway).
And again, maybe I'm wrong in now thinking that the current SFM had been planning to move to the Barlow site. But if that's correct, then there never was an intention of a COMPETING market. Just a RELOCATED market, and one that would include at least twice as many vendors as the current one.
Is the problem that some of the vendors want to move, and others don't ... so that there WOULD be two competing markets if the Barlow hosts one? That would be messy, for sure!
By the way, when I say "what's the problem?" I don't mean it rhetorically as in: "you idiot - can't you see that there's no problem". I'm actually asking a question. I see several possible problems and i'm trying to find out which of them are being addressed in this thread. It seems clear to me that two competing markets on sunday WOULD be a problem ... but I don't see why there would be TWO markets if the WHOLE market moved over to the Barlow.
IF the WHOLE market moved over to the Barlow, then THESE problems might be relevant:
1) there would be too many vendors for most of them to make decent revenue (from the same set of customers as before)
2) many of the attendees are attached to the current location, and don't want the market to move.
BUT, of course,
3) some of the vendors might not want to move, so there WOULD be two competing markets
Since I just showed up late to this party, I probably am missing something ---but a clarifying response might be helpful to others as well as to myself!
I'm sorry. I thought, since it was perfectly fine for folks to be up in arms about the Barlow ("boycot!" "Bad manners" "stupid behavior"), that it would be equally fine that I'm up in arms about those who are up in arms. My mistake.
To answer your question... No! I DON'T think two markets on the same day, two blocks apart, will work. Not at all. I think the city should go with the ORIGINAL plan, SUPPORTED by Paula Downing AND the MAJORITY of the SFM VENDORS, and we should have ONE cohesive market that the COMMUNITY SUPPORTS!! So far, all I've read are comments where people are thinking about themselves, NOT the farmers who work 7 days a week/365/yr. and not about the FACT that there are currently 3 yr-round farmers markets in Sonoma County on Sat. and only 1 on Sundays- Sebastopol. The ONLY reason to make a Sat market in Seb. or have 2 on Sun. is to protect SELF interest, NOT the ag. community's.
One market, at the Barlow- SUPPORTED!
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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:
I'm So sorry Barry. PLEASE don't revoke the ONE and ONLY opposing view because I use CAPS when stating FACTS. I did not realize people were so sensitive to FACTS.
Here is what the problem is - plain and simple. The Barlow reneged on their offer to move the existing market to the Barlow and decided to start one of their own instead. The current market with their board (that makes the decisions) and it's manager - who carries out their decision was UNinvited to the Barlow - THAT is what the problem is.
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Posted in reply to the post by foxrosie:
That is what we would all like, but the Barlow switched and withdrew their offer and told the existing market they are not welcome to move there as planned and promised. This is where all the trouble began.
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Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
THANK YOU ... now I get it. I was COMPLETELY confused. Does anyone know WHY they revoked an offer (that is still sitting on their own website)? That does seem absolutely absurd. There must be some backstory here ...
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
Sorry Scamperwillow, but you are COMPLETELY WRONG. The "board" you speak off is not real, and only me and Paula know it. Look up "Sonoma County Farmers Market Association" and WHO runs it and what markets they control. Don't THINK you know facts, support the facts! I don't want to, but if I HAVE to/ if Barry allows it, I'll post the letter the City Council currently has in their possession from a former faux "board member." PAULA is LEGALLY in SOLE CONTROL. (Sorry.... truth hurts, I know).
And Barlow did NOT renig. They have kept their promise to the MARKET, they just want a less controversial, less divisive manager... the MARKET has always been welcome. You'd understand this unless u claim the "Market" IS the "manager." Is THAT ur POV?!
And here is what happened the last time a competing farm market tried to set up on the same day as the existing market. The application was withdrawn after a LOT of community uproar.
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_we...a4bcf887a.html
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Posted in reply to the post by foxrosie:
If you can't access the link above, you can also see the article here on WaccoBB.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
There is indeed, my dear friend, Lani! In Spades! It's on the thread Farmer's Market at The Barlow, that began with request from The Barlow asking "What do you want to see at a Barlow's Farmer's Market?".Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by foxrosie:
I just did a a quick scan of it. Some of the more notable posts in that thread that seem to shed light on how we got to this predicament are:
#83: from bret martin (who seems to be managing the FM market and/or public relations for The Barlow) saying that Paula's board suggested the Barlow do Sunday market and collaborate and then proceeded advocate against it.
#88 also from bret martin, saying why they can't have Paula at the Barlow.
#91, Nancy Prebilich, under her pseudonym of lizzysweet, posting a letter to the SR Farmer's market BOD outlining grievances against Paula
#111 more from Nancy/lizzysweet. which combined with above.
There's lots more there, much of it well worth a read, though the later part of the thread gets bogged down in a discussion of my outing "lizzysweet" to be Nancy Prebilich.
Don't forget the "outing" of "Oliviathunderkitty" as Michelle Anna Jordan, columnist for the PD/ PAID by the Santa Rosa Original Certified Farmers Market, according to their own financials (which I'm happy to show anyone). But you deemed her use of a pseudonym warranted, as oppose to me, because you claimed she had something worthy of protecting... unlike me. Don't forget THAT! Or how you allowed both Michele and Paula to publish "open letters to the public," about me and my "vicious pit bull" (who's actually a harmless BOXER).... AFTER you banished me, so I had no means of recourse. Don't forget that, Barry.
Here's what I got this evening from Barry... another "Making up rules as I go for the people who's voice I don't like!" Clearly someone is more concerned with "control" than the "issues." I only objected when he posted a copy-written photo which he did not have permission to publish. I poster a photo of my darling Boxer... and this is what I got:
"Nancy, I see that you have changed your avatar.
The only thing I can think of to make you more considerate is to include a photo of you as your avatar so that you are taking full responsibility for what you post, just as I do.
The photo I used was publicly available on your Facebook profile. You are welcome to send me or load an alternate, equally identifiable photo.
I have revoked your posting privileges until you comply. If you do change your photo I will restore your posting privileges for as long as I can tolerate them and will prevent you from re-changing your avatar.
Barry"
I have NO problem being seen Barry! I just want to be treated FAIRLY!!
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
I too have not commented until now, but the more I think about this and the more I read, the more I feel it is important to speak out. I too love the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, and I don't think having 2 markets on the same day makes any sense at all. Also the Barlow location is already a traffic nightmare. If they want to put on a Farmer's market, let it be another day and time so we can have more than one wonderful community experience during the week.
As far as the vendors, we have to recognize their freedom of choice. If they would rather be at a different market, or would like to do both the regular Sunday market and a Barlow market that is held on another day and time - that should be their choice. But it is our choice where we want to shop, and who we want to buy from.
If they do a market that competes with or diminishes the existing Sunday market, I will definitely boycott it!
qidancing
Barry - those are rather selective excerpts. There is much much more to the story than Paula's advocating a against a joint market. This came after a very long period of trying to work things out. But the bottom line again is that the Barlow withdrew their offer to move the ongoing regular Sebastopol market - WITH a board of directors - to the Barlow. And that is where it all began.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Obviously the whole issue here is, if you have an open mind, where is the best location for the Farmer's Market, and who should take the lead in its management. If the Barlow feels their location is a win-win for farmers, the patrons, and the city and community at large then they should have a signicant, if not controlling interest in how the Market is run. Of course they would like to be in control. So, perhaps the question is which location is better, and for whom?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
Nancy talked to me on facebook and she said that we could have fresh squeezed juice and/or seb zero ice cream together and talk about things...isn't that great?:wink1:
Joseph, on the last thread I even told everyone that I would gladly sit in the park on Sunday, with all my documents that support my position, willing to talk to anyone! Not ONE person showed up!! Except of coutrse Michele Ana Jordan who only came by to sneer at me. I am and always have been willing to talk to ANYONE. I have had several people email me privately on this thread and I give them my cell phone number. I have had neighbors knock on my front door to ask to talk to me on this issue and I have stopped what I was doing to sit down and talk under the oak tree. Barry has banned me, made up "requirements" for me, has censored me BECAUSE I am willing to talk. He says it's because I'm disrespectful and inconsiderate, but anyone else who has more than a spaghetti noodle for a spine can see I'm an intelligent woman who writes with a color, tone, and style that may not be to one's liking, but that it hasn't really warranted censorship. Barry has protected his friends using pysudonyms while "outing" me, made up a rule that my avatar MUST show a close up of my face to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." I have NEVER had a problem talking to anyone who, like yourself, is willing to listen to someone other than themselves, and is not afraid of a bold, fiercely passionate, educated, articulate Irish/Croation blooded woman who has documents, facts, and yes, has history in this community and on this particular subject, to support her POV... what I have to say is not just based on I WANT because I LIKE and if I don't get MY WAY, I want others to FAIL! .... Oh, but Nameste!
I look forward to our ice cream. Anyone who wants to join, I welcome (but like last time, I doubt anyone else will).
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Posted in reply to the post by Joseph Askren:
Rarely post here...but my God the censorship on Nancy and MAKING her post a pic is sickening - maybe she doesn't want complete strangers glaring at her due to their utter lack of respect for her right to have an opposing view, (and by the way I should mention that I have no idea who Nancy is or who Barry is for that matter IRL). I have seen soooooooooooo many posts in the past that could be construed as rude and extremely inconsiderate - and they were allowed to stay on the board. I myself moderate several online groups and the ONLY reason to censor a person should be if they directly attack another member. Other than that, censorship is just a matter of control and bias. Seriously, I am disgusted.
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Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Dear Joyma, You might want to read through the thread from last winter that resulted in Barry's decision. It should help mitigate your feelings of disgust. This wasn't a knee-jerk reaction on Barry's part, nor does it seem to have been an arbitrary move. There is a lot of history that got both Barry and Ms. Prebilich to this point.
Barry is, I believe, the founder of waccobb as well as its moderator.
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Posted in reply to the post by joyma:
If anyone is interested in what Barney Aldridge has to say about this, he has posted several comments on The Barlow's Facebook page- It's under their post from Wednesday, under replies (he has given 4 out of the eleven) below Dian Hardy's comment.
I want to remind Nancy, and everybody else, that publicly posting private communication is a serious breach of netiquette. In this case, I have no problem with Nancy's posting of my note to her regarding my efforts to encourage more civility in her participation here.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past. What is evident in the current thread that I have been reading is there is a lot of bias and a lot of personal agendas being promoted. If the people at the Barlow withdrew their offer to the SebFM, I am quite sure they had good reason to do so. I have heard from people around town that there is someone at the SebFM who is extremely challenging to work with and thus if that is indeed the case, the people at the Barlow have every right to protect their interests in having a positive, welcoming, harmonious working environment. The views and opinions here all seem to stem from a personal desire to have things stay the way they are (which is legitimate) - but the opinions have nothing whatsoever to do with making good business choices or with being open to something new and possibly better.
It seems to me that Nancy has a passionate, well articulated viewpoint. And due to other people's personal agendas she is being outcast. That is wrong and immature. A good debate should be welcomed, and all sides should be carefully considered. But that isn't even close to what I am witnessing here: on the contrary it looks like if someone has as strong an opinion in support of the Barlow's actions as do the ones against, they are deemed inappropriate and made wrong.
For the record I have no affiliation with the Barlow, the SebFM, Nancy or Barry.
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
Here are those posts, From this past wedensday afternoon through current:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by counterpoint:
End of Facebook posts.
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...987_7984_q.jpg Barney Aldridge We have committed to our tenants, and the community a farmers market at the Barlow. Because of litigation involving the existing downtown market, we were unable to just have them move down, as we desired, and originally anticipated. We are now planning to provide expansion room, marketing, and parking for the existing market, while managing on our own the vendors who set up in the Barlow.
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...987_7984_q.jpg Barney Aldridge We are committed to work with Steve, and Paula, to promote downtown Sebastopol as a destination farmers market on Sundays. Has anyone seen a larger farmers market? They can really be fun, and interesting. Unfortunately the current market on the square is at capacity. Their are many farmers who want to join, but have not been allowed to. Has anyone else experienced the difficult access to the market? Our goal is to provide room for access, parking, and to provide additional marketing so that the existing market thrives better than ever, and continues to grow.
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...987_7984_q.jpg Barney Aldridge Our policy will be to continue to receive input from the public, and to work closely with the existing market to find solutions to any challenges that are pointed out. Lets together make Sundays in Sebastopol a great showcase for all of our local farmers, and artisans. Lets include everyone!
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...987_7984_q.jpg Barney Aldridge To be clear...... the litigation referred to above was between the existing farmers market, and some vendors who were excluded. Nothing to do with the Barlow.
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...07971635_q.jpg Patricia Dines Thanks for giving us more info on your approach to this. I do appreciate it.... The original promise was to move the existing market, so it seems you're not actually keeping the promise.... And to me I just don't see how two markets at the same time will both flourish. Your arguments seem to be that you're providing a better market - that's competition. Then each market has to compete as to why it's better. That feels uncomfortable to some of us, contrary to the communitarian style we specifically see around farmers' markets.... It seems to me that you could keep your promise to have a market by doing it on a different day, e.g. Sat. That to me is how both markets have a chance to be their own unique offering collaboratively. Or defining it differently, e.g. just arts not food....
- https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net...73827029_q.jpg Marty Roberts And to be clear again, the litigation was around the Santa Rosa Market, not Sebastopol. I sure would like to see the Barlow do a market on a different day. That way farmers could have two days to sell their products and not have to choose between competing markets. And customers would love a second day to buy fresh produce - especially if they are not available on sunday.
What seems disengenous to me is that there have been reports of The Barlow soliciting the current Sebastopol Farm markets vendors to come to the Barlow.
That is precisely what Nancy has done. History counts.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by joyma:
I am now trying the approach of having her be fully accountable for her speech here rather than censoring her.
And how does making up rules as you go and enforcing/implementing them from behind the scenes so nobody can see your bias and prejudice play into proper "netiquette?"
Not buying it, not in this case... and I hope the rest of u are not so easily bamboozled.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Joyma, of course they have the right to hold their own market for whatever reason. The thing that is riling up the community is that they are choosing to do it at exactly the same time as the long-standing existing market (which is already permitted by the city) - causing conflict and forcing farmers to choose one or the other. A very simple solution that would satisfy everyone would be to held their market on a different day. The Barlow's permit application will be coming before the Planning Commission sometime soon and that would be a forum for people to express their opinions on this. Will the planning commission be willing to give a second permit in this small town at the same time as the already permitted one?
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Posted in reply to the post by joyma:
Barry,
I highly respect what you have created for this community.
I can understand the necessity of moderating to keep things copacetic. I have to do so often on my forums. However, from my perspective as an outsider, non-attached to any outcome - it looks more like a reprimanding, reproachful stance than does simple moderation. When I have to moderate people I let them know how I feel first, then I give them guidelines, then I give them another chance and if all else fails, I simply moderate their posts (so the posts can't go through without my approval). Again, from my perspective your "having her be fully accountable for her speech" feels downright patronizing and condescending.
From a very objective viewpoint, I see absolutely nothing wrong with anything that she has posted in this thread. But I absolutely do see a lack of openness, disapproval and aggressiveness from many other people who don't agree with her. I find their patronizing, passive aggressive behavior 1000 times more crude than her clearly passionate and for most likely a good reason, strongly worded communication. If I felt unheard and attacked, I would express myself strongly also.
It looks like a modern day witch hunt...with harassment, belittlement and utter lack of acceptance.
I don't know anyone on this forum. I'm just calling it like I see it. Take it for what it's worth.
Thank you...
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
And that is why I will not be shopping at the Barlow. (In addition to N. Prebilich's venomous attitude)
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
I'm curious why there is an assumption that vendors will have to choose one or the other location? Why couldn't they sell at both locations? Is there anything from the Sebastopol Farmer's Market or the Barlow that indicates they will ban vendors if such vendor sells at the other market?
What I see is an expanded market and more opportunities for vendors.
I'm not saying that expanding the Sunday market is my first choice - I rarely get into town on Sundays and feel acutely disappointed that I miss out on the direct contact with farmers. (which is why I'm so excited to have some take up permanent residency at the Barlow . . . much easier access) I would much prefer an early-afternoon-to-evening market on a week day.
Has anyone talked with local farmers and asked how easy it is to get into the Seb Farm Market these days? Would they like the opportunity to sell in Sebastopol every Sunday? It's been a few years so it may not be true now, but I remember that many vendors could not be there every Sunday because there was only so much room at the plaza. . . so a rotation was set up for some vendors while others could be there every Sunday. As a purchaser, that was hard. I had to ask (and then remember) when my favorite vendors would be at the market. With an expanded market I would not have to wait weeks I could just ask where they will be next week and walk the block between both markets.
Frankly, I go to markets to buy veggies, fruit and meat. I don't often stay to eat lunch or lounge at the Plaza . . . so maybe my needs are different from others on this thread. I DO see a lot of friends and acquaintances on the rare occasion that I get to go, but Sundays are my one day with family so I make my greetings short and get on with my shopping.
Anyway, I'm still curious about the assumption I mentioned at the beginning of my post.
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
To sell at a farmer's market the farmer either hires people or they do everything themselves. Selling at two locations at the same time will require an output of more money - both for paying people and renting the booth space. Although there may be more business at both markets combined, it is unlikely to be enough to make up for the increased expense of selling at both locations.
The farmers are the ones who are most likely to lose out in this scenario, just as they have in Santa Rosa. They will end up working harder to make less money.
Setting up for a market is a lot of work. There is the expense of a truck, the time and effort to load up the tables, scale, and other equipment, the products, etc. Then at the end the effort to break down and bring it all back. It's pretty much out of the question for most local farmers to do two markets at the same time.
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Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:
Why do it, indeed? Could it be the Barlow is a better location? The Barlow has more spaces so more farmers can sell their wares and the public has a greater selection, they have more parkjng, they have a much better node of activity that will attract a diverse clientele who will shop for other things than what is offered at a Farmer's Market, and it frees up the Plaza for other things to happen, though the Barlow is only a 3 minute walk away. Come on folks, this whole thing sounds like a gaggle of indignant hens cluck-clucking around the barnyard. The real question is: What is the better space for the market?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
Now we're starting to have a decent conversation!
What you say is very true, selling at markets IS a whole lot of work, and growing a successful business does take capital (both time and money). I want to clarify a few things and ask a few questions.
1) vendors in SR have been hurting since the split. Remember that EVERY vendor was welcome to stay and the supposed rent issue was clearly a non-issue because the folks at the Vets have NOT had to have their stall fees raised to pay the rent. Then those who moved made a "7 mile rule." My question is why move if you're welcome to stay? And why make a rule that prevents those who CAN grow their local food business from doing so?
2) we know the Barlow did not renig their invitation because people have been griping that vendors at the plaza have been getting invitations to apply. So my question is why, after a mandate to move and two years of anticipation do the vendors suddenly not want to move to a more spacious location that will offer more resources for advertising, more space for more customers, covered awnings, and supportive businesses?
3) if we KNOW the AVERAGE age of the American farmer is 65, why would we not want want to support new and young farmers by helping them with THE HARDEST part of the business- getting your goods to market? Why would we boycott a place that is offering that opportunity and instilling fear in the old farmers that they will have no customers if they move to a space more conducive for THEM?!
4) And how can ANYONE claim they are community minded but want failure at the entrance of our town... in fact, contribute to it?
5) and who are we to say local farm businesses are exempt from competition and/or growth? Right now, you demanding they do neither, yet we have organizations and programs galor promoting MORE MORE MORE local fresh clean food. How do you reconcile with these double standards?!
Most members of the community and vendors at the Sebastopol market in the plaza who weighed in on this said they preferred the plaza. THEY think the plaza is the better space.
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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:
Why not compromise? Anyone ever attended the Thursday night farmers market in San Rafael? I'd love to have two farmers markets on two different days. The current Sunday market in the Plaza is perfect the way it is. It doesn't need to be bigger. I had friends come from out of town and they couldn't stop talking about it. It fits Sebastopol , it's in a perfect location. Adding second market in the Barlow on the same day is a mistake. It's divisive and engenders a competitive attitude, hurt feelings, which is obvious from the comments on this thread and it's not serving the community. I've even heard the threat of a boycott. Jesus, Barlow folks no one wants that, this is becoming a public relations nightmare.
With that said I would completely support a bigger market on Thursday evening at the Barlow. I've walked through the Barlow it has it's own flavor and I believe a market at the Barlow would be a great addition to the community equal to the Plaza. Music, businesses open late, music, etc. I personally hope that everyone involved will let go of their personal agendas and past events long enough to consider the community. We're all bigger than this.
My vote is continuing the current Sunday market at the Plaza and and creating a brand new Thursday night market at the Barlow. I'll admit to a slight bias because by Thursday all of my Sunday produce is gone.
RnoMistakes:
Amen!!
That's what I said a couple days ago. Apparently, by the number of gratitudes which I received, several others in our wonderful community would like to see that happen as well.
I agree with your post in its entirety. However, I would like to propose one slight change: that the market be held starting Friday afternoon and continue into Friday evening. Have you ever noticed how many people are out on the streets on a Friday night? Just think, the Friday night market could become THE end-of-week event, something for lots of people to look forward to.
Also, having the market on a different day than Sunday would also help allleviate on other important problem: TRAFFIC!! How many Waccobbians truly believe that having two markets in close promixity to each other on the same day is not going to be a traffic nightmare?
In my opinion, the Barlow already has a public relations nightmare on their hands, and I'm sure that they don't wish to start a weekly traffic nightmare as well. Now THAT certainly will harm all of their other vendors.
To the powers that be over at the Barlow, I reiterate: Remember the "C" word (community) -- and proceed with another "c" word -- caution.
Here's the problem you are not considering (and I don't blame you because you would only know this if you are coming from the Farmer's perspective.) there will be some people you might accommodate with your propsal, sure, BUT the fact is, farmers NEVER make, per capita, on weekday evenings what they make weekend mornings. Week day evenings are fun and festive and for the customer who wants to be OUT having a good time, not lugging around groceries.
Look at Healdsburg's Tuesday versus their Sat., Sonoma's Thurs. versus a Sat. morning, Santa Rosa's Wed. night vs. Sat. morning... the volume of people are way higher for evening markets but sales are NOT comparable for the FARMERS. Prepared foods, crafts, novelty vendors do well, farmers, not so much. NO farmer would trade a weekend morning for a weekday evening... they're apples and oranges. No chefs shopping, the moms that shop for the houshold are driving the kids to some practice of some sort, or home to get homework done before bedtime... I'm just saying, from an inside vendor perspective, it isn't the quick fix you want it to be. I'm TOTALLY in favor of a weekday evening market, and they're usually great markets, just not great markets for the farmer.
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Posted in reply to the post by Rnomistakes:
The only problem with a market on Friday is there is already an established Farmer's Market on Friday in Occidental, which is closer to my neck of the woods. The Friday Occidental market is a great thing, well attended, lots of fun. I always get the patron peppers.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:
I guess what I don't understand is the reluctance to SHIFT the Sebastopol market to the Barlow and leave the Plaza as a plaza. Clearly, that is what's happening here. The Barlow is a great new venue in town, has more parking, has other attractive amenities like locally run businesses, can accomodate more farmers who wish to sell their crop, and can be a destination for not just local folks but even folks from the hinterlands, like Rohnert Park or Kalamazoo.One final thought, if this forum represents the "progressive" community, why are so many folks so closed minded, so afraid to think outside the box, so afraid of and resistant to change. How progressive is that?
Why not "shift" the wonderful little Friday Occidental market to the bigger Plaza site? Then shift the smaller Sunday Plaza market to the lager Barlow site? Of course I'm being facetious.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by jbox:
I get the feeling that a lot of people in Sebastopol really enjoy their downtown Plaza market the same way that you enjoy the Friday Occidental market. They like the small town feel, local crowd, appreciate the tradition and want to see it continue. I don't understand how it's progressive to fix something so many people feel isn't broken. In a climate of change sometimes "thinking out of the box" is fully appreciating what you already have.
Please always remember that what you love so much HAS a price, and that is all the farmers and vendors who have been prohibited from selling at the market because of its limited capacity. How do you possibly claim to be community minded and progressive when you are limiting who gets to sell? Don't you see you're limiting access to food? Who gets to grow it? The price they get to charge? The people who get to buy?
And PLEASE answer this: I refer you back to the published public statement made by Paula Downing, posted here by Lani... Why is it that this shift was the greatest thing under the sun for the market and the community UNTIL the Barlow said," Seb. Farmers Market, come on over! Just find a different manager who doesn't come with legal issues still following her?" And those legal issues, my dears (and I know this because it was MY litigation) will continue to exist for the next 5 years because of a caveat SHE INSISTED having in the settlement. Given the support for the shift BEFORE, how do you not say this community furry is about the market and not the rally of Paula Downing and her friends to help her keep her post? Had she not insisted on her caveat she would have still been welcome, Michele Anna Jordan who be writing about how great the move is, the whole thing would have been glorified, and we would never be having this discussion because the original question would never have been posed!!! What has happened here is HER divisiveness and exclusionary policies have backfired and now her friends are trying to do damage control.
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Posted in reply to the post by Rnomistakes:
Hi Nancy,Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
I'm sorry that the size of the market prohibits some of the farmers and venders who would like to participate from doing so. Ironically it's the quaintness and the small town feel that makes it special. It's not my intention to limit anyone just as I'm sure it's not your intention to deprive the people who enjoy the Plaza market. If there was a Thursday market added at the Barlow maybe a more inclusive rotation of some sort could be figured out where everyone has the opportunity to sell their wares at both sites.
I'm only representing my point of view Nancy and I believe the desire to maintain the current Plaza market stems from genuine community support. I also feel it would be beneficial for everyone involved to let go of old disagreements and work together in a creative way to serve the needs of everyone involved. I'm sure there are new solutions that will never come to light as long as we focus on old grievances.
I personally would like to see everyone succeed, including the farmers. Maybe if there was a little more of a willingness from all sides to give up a little for the benefit of everyone the changed attitude would pave the way for some real out of the box solutions...
I hear what you're saying and I agree, but the problem is not that "I won't let go" that keeps old issues alive and prevents us from moving forward, it's the caveat that SHE put in the settlement agreement that keeps it alive every day for the next five years!! In the spirit of letting bygones be bygones, when she wants to amend the settlement agreement and rescind her caveat, I will be very happy to sign on the dotted line!
PS: I LOVED the market at the plaza! Loved my customers and the vendors, and was loved back. But then I was kicked out for no reason (and I have letters supporting that from former board members... Letters that have already gone to the city council) and myself and anyone associated with me is banned for the next five years! I would LOVE to enjoy the "small town feel" tomorrow... but alas, I can not. And you are telling me to just get over it?
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Posted in reply to the post by Rnomistakes:
Thank you Barry for posting the FB comments! I would like to bring everyone's attention to the last post by Marty Roberts a.k.a Scamperwillow.
I sent her a private email, a "friendly request" to rescind her inacurrate statement and a request that she not "set the record straight" on issues she does not know, like the litigation. She made an edit where she refered to the "angry souls" and suggested that maybe they also brought litigation against Seb. I then sent her a DIRECTIVE to FIX IT. She said she'd seen the paperwork, so she WAS "informed" and she was not going to edit her statement.
Barry... my question is for you... When I first used a pseudonym, you suggested nothing I had said should be considered credibly because I lied about my name. Then you forced me to publish a close up photo of my face so as to force me to "take responsibility for my posts." What do you do Mr Moderator for someone who uses their real name, real photo, HAS THE REAL INFORMATION and then WILLFULLY CHOOSES to LIE to thousands of people, even after they've been asked NICELY not to, just to further their cause?! What do you do about the Marty Robert's aka "scamperwillow's" of the world? This isn't a personal attack- just wondering what your policy is. Do you ban THEM from posting? Because frankly, I'm offended by blatant liars, and everyone on this forum should be too!
Furthermore, Barry, considering all the postings on this thread, the last thread, and your affiliations, I think you'll find it hard pressed to convince anyone of substance that you did not know that statement to be false, and yet you made no attempt to correct it. Remember when Candy Crawley corrected Mitt Romney on Obama's use of the word "Terror?" Now THAT was RESPONSIBLE MODERATION! The only reason I'm bringing this up NOW is because I wanted to allow both you and Marty the opportunity to do the right thing and save face. Remember now that awkward moment Mitt had after he was corrected? It was almost too painful to watch.
Oh sheesh - I will just delete anything I said about a lawsuit - I really don't want to get into this. I just want a solution for the market that works for everyone.
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Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Willfully and blatantly lying, does that get us there Marty? I don't think so. That's all I'm sayin'!
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
Willfully and blatantly lying
Nancy, You seem to feel it's OK to use this kind of abusive language in your posts. I don't think I'm the only Wacovian reading them and thinking it's definitely not.
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Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Yes, yes I do. It's just kinda how us simple farmer types role; we don't call a spade a hammer, we call it a spade. Here's an easy way to avoid "abuse" as you call it... DON'T LIE.
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Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp:
Nancy:
As someone who has always had respect for your family's hardworking values and your dedication to the land and support for farmers, I would like to offer you the following advice, and I hope that you take it in the spirit in which it is offered:
Perhaps it's time to put down your secateurs and your skythe and use that hammer and spade to which you referred in your previous post to dig in and hammer out a meaningful compromise to this unfortunate debacle.
Calling Scamperwillow a liar and accusing Barry of censorship is beyond the pale and unnecessary, it does nothing to promote goodwill in the community and only serves to incite even more intense anger from those persons who disagree with you.
While I can understand your frustrations, I ask you to please tone it down a bit. I am still interested in what you have to say, but how you are saying it is leaving a very bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths.
Thank you.
Thank you kindly, Tom. The thing is though, Barry HAS censored and Marty DID lie. In Barry's own words, "History counts!" And I HAVE offered a compromise: amend the settlement agreement (which apparently started all this) and I will sign my name. I have complied with with everything you people have asked of me, yet you ignore the facts and real actions of those in your own camp while preaching to me about "abuse" and "compromise." I don't doubt there's a bad taste in your mouth, but maybe it's because of what you're choosing to eat, not because of what's been offered and is still sitting untouched on the table.
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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:
Why not have one during the week in the early evening at the Barlow? It would help the problem of vendors not getting a space at the Sunday market. Sebastol could definitely support two farmers markets. It doesn't need to be exclusive.
Due to the controversy and community discord that has been created around the Sebastopol Farmers Market, I
will not bring forth a proposal to relocate The Occupy Sebastopol Tent to The Barlow at this time.
Sebastopol Farmers Market is crowded. The produce is fine but extremely over-priced. Expand the market and provide a real venue for real farmers and hobby vegetable gardens. When my kids were young they wanted to pick apples and sell them at the farmers market in Sebastopol to raise money for a school trip.
Guess what? The answer was an emphatic and very rude "no".
The kids raised money for permits and were allowed to sell their goods in Santa Rosa, Windsor, and Healdsburg.
I think a better, bigger, friendlier and easy to navigate market would provide the best competition to get the Plaza market to go out-of-business and make way for the future, a market where the importance of farming and camaraderie in a community are important. Not a handful of the same boutique bakeries. I have never found a bargain at Sebastopol farmers market. Delicious yes. Affordable not.
Let's make a new market with room for everyone!!
Here are previous posts garnering HUGE support. What exactly has changed, except the fact that the Barlow does not wish to welcome one individual, Paula Downing, because of the legal baggage she comes with (which she insisted on having!) What's else, besides your friend's possible employment, has changed Scamperwillow, Oliviathundercat, Barry?!
Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
Hi, This is Paula, contributing my two cents as the Sebastopol farm market manager:
When you think about the Barlow, just think about the possible alternatives: An ugly, corporate Chase Bank/CVS pharmacy, for example, or the original concept that was proposed and supported by most of the city council at the time - hundreds of apartments, four stories high, and thousands of square feet of retail space! (Goodbye down town!) Any other corporate funded nightmares you would like to envision??! ! How about Walmart? If we have a Chase/CVS complex on the Pellini corner, why not?
No doubt about it we are going to get something in this space! Here is our chance not to have a corporate monster at the gateway to Sebastopol. Here is our chance to renew and rebirth Sebastopol as a food and farm center of west county. When I weigh and balance all the options, I can't imagine why we would pass this up!
This is an expensive project, a vision that one man, Barney Aldridge, embraced as a result of the encouragement of many people who have been dreaming and hoping for many years to return Sebastopol to its historic roots as a food producing community. Think about that! A Santa Rosa kid who made some money and has made such a complete personal commitment to create this vision that he just sold his home and moved into an apartment to help pay for the project. One guy! Not Chase bank!
I just reread one of Wendell Barry's essay about saving us from the near complete slavery that we are now experiencing as a result of the ownership of corporate banks, insurance companies, etc., of our government, including the Supreme Court, and ourselves. Wendell believes that government will not save us (Oh, Barack, how sad it is!); that our only hope is to take back our communities and create something ourselves. Jesus! Let's do that at the Barlow! Sure, express your concerns, works to alleviate whatever problems you see, but get the vision - get the possibilities! Sonoma County has some of the most amazing food on the planet. I love the idea of immersing the Sunday farmers market in the middle of a community of small, local manufacturers of ravioli, cheese, salsa, tomato sauce, olive oil. kambucha and whatever. To develop a local food economy we need space for the food entrepreneurs to work. Here it is!
Also get the brutal reality. There has to be enough money to pay for this, enough to get the banks to lend to create the project. The wineries involved have some money - and they are small guys we can live with - compared to Gallo, for example.
About farmers markets in the winter: We will have some shelter but the idea is to bring your umbrella and support your local farmers. Shopping in the rain is exhilarating, actually; it's about how good it feels, sensually and emotionally, to connect our personal selves with the physical world and to experience the seasons - green food in winter; the excitement that comes with the first red food of spring (strawberries usually); and on into the bounty of summer. I work the Santa Rosa market all year long. We have tons of winter greens, squashes, potatoes - foods that our bodies need in the cold. Crafters stay home in bad weather because their stuff gets ruined but the farmers are always out there, except when the wind is ugly (wind eats tents). If the rain is really aggressive, we just bring out the Bloody Marys!
About the current market square: I love the square but it has become way too small. When I started managing nearly 20 years ago we had about 10 vendors. Now we have room for about 45. We could invite more young, innovative food producers if we had more room, which we would have at The Barlow. Barney has committed to creating a play space similar to the square at the Barlow. The market won't move unless we have that.
What else? Embrace the vision - I hope. Keep talking here on WACCO. Or find me at the market. Or call me at 829-3494. Or call Barney at The Barlow at 484-8020.
Paula
Sebastopol Farm Market Manager
P.S..We have decided to keep the market open all year long starting this year - right where we are - so you can see how it feels to shop in the rain starting now!
The following 9 members have expressed gratitude to Barry for this post:
bill shearer, caverly, gardenmaniac, Mrs. Wacco, oliviathunderkitty, podfish, scamperwillow, Sebtown1968, Thad
10-03-2011 09:55 AM Top #22
From: oliviathunderkitty
Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
<>
WOW!!!!! Fabulous news, Paula. Yay!!! I'd do handsprings if I could.
Great, thoughtful post overall, too, full of wisdom and thoughtfulness. Thank you.
10-03-2011 03:18 PM Top #23
From: scamperwillow
Re: Barlow Development: year-round farmers market
Yeah Paula! I agree with all of this! and so glad the market will stay open!!
I am not even remotely concerned with what may or may not have occurred in the past.
That's unfortunate, because it does matter.
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Posted in reply to the post by joyma:
You see?! NOW WE AGREE!! That's my point EXACTLY!! (See past posts copied and pasted for your convenience above :-)! I'm so happy we agree :-)
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Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp:
Hello, Waccobbians...
I want to address a couple of points made by two of the posters today.
Nancy: I am NOT a member of any camp. If you want to put me in a "camp" just for expressing my opinion, one that is contrary to yours, that is your prerogative.
You say you are a "strong Irish Croatian woman." Well, I am a "strong, passionate Italian boy."
If you do not wish to have others criticize you for the way in which you express your strong opinions, please do not do it to others. I am simply availing myself of my inalienable right to exercise freely my rights of free speech as a citizen. That will not be taken away from me -- by ANYONE.
All of the opinions that I have expressed in this forum on this particular topic have been solely my opinions; no one, but no one, has attempted to influence me, certainly not Ms. Downing, and not the Barlow or any of its personnel. In fact, I have absolutely no affiliation with either of them whatsoever. If any of them had tried to suggest an opinion or influence me, it would have been a complete waste of time, for anyone who knows me knows that that would be a supreme exercise in futility anyway.
My wish is that there will be a peaceful outcome which will be beneficial for THE ENTIRE community. That is where my heart is. And, judging from the many excellent, heart-felt posts in this thread, I believe that the same can be said for many others as well.
Pearl G: Thank you for your post. I agree with you that the prices are high at the current market. However, I hate to break this to you, but I doubt seriously whether you are going to get many Barlow bargains once they open their farmers market -- whatever day it winds up being held on. The Barlow, like the current farmers market, is a for-profit operation. This is not meant to cast any aspersions on either market for engaging in that type of business, as the for-profit business model forms the foundation of our system of American capitalism; rather, it is to point out that both markets will share a similar business model.
Last year, when my peach trees had a major crop failure, I decided to go to the Sebastopol Farmers Market to buy a box of peaches. I found a supplier, who, incidentally, was from the Sacramento Valley area, and I purchased a box from them. I believe the price, if my memory serves me correctly, was 28 dollars. They were nice people, and their peaches were excellent.
The moral of this story? Quality costs money. Quality plus convenience costs even more.
Since I made the decision to avail myself of both, I did not begrudge paying top dollar.
I'm sure by the time the peach vendor picks the peaches, stores them, hauls them down here, pays their booth space, tears down and high-tails it back to Sacramento, they probably make very little, if any, profit.
Finally, I wish to adopt all of the points which I made in my previous posts and reiterate that the Barlow should abandon their plans for a Sunday market and should give serious consideration to holding either a Thursday or Friday Market at their new location -- for the good of the community.
Thank you all who have taken the time to read my many posts on this subject. It is very much appreciated.
Oh Tom, I don't begrudge you in any way! I completely agree with you. We should ALL excercise our inalienable rights. But if you lie, I should be able to call you a liar. If you censor, I should be able to call out the fact that you censor! I have no problem with peoples' "criticism" of me. It's just, if ur going to criticize, you better make damn sure you're right. At least that's how I was raised. All I know is Marty claims to have had access to the source, yet posted to the contrary, Barry allows others to call me names, but bans me from responding. I think we want the same things, Tom. Just how to achieve it seems to be the dilemma.
Much love,
Nancy
Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:
Having two exciting markets in Sebastopol on Sunday seems like a great idea to me. A little competition will keep both improving. It will bring more folks into town who will probably shop at both markets as well as other local business. Change can be a good thing. I encourage The Barlow and the Plaza Market to both be the best that they can be. I would love to support both. Perhaps downtown could have a sidewalk sale at the same time! Sounds like a party to me : ))
:yinyang:
It is unfortunate that our quaint town plaza is at an intersection where 2 major highways converge and cause a loud stinky neighborhood. The Barlow will inevitably detour some of the traffic and invite a lovely route around town with views of the Laguna.
$28 for a box of juicy peaches is a bargain compared to the $3 I paid for one small tomato when I too had a crop failure. When California farmers hear of our new market, they will be excited. Some central valley farmers are still into haggling and selling in bulk.
If you build it they will come.
And I will come. I had quit shopping at Sebastopol Farmers Market years ago (except to bop in for fresh butter and Indian food), but could never wait to get the heck out of there. I'm so excited to stroll the new Barlow. Bring it!
Hi, Pearl G...
I was about to e-mail you about your out-of-pocket tomato experience, but then I re-read your post and found that I actually misread it; I thought you said you paid 31 dollars for one small tomato!
Still, THREE dollars is, I'll agree, a bit high. I do hope it was a good one!
Hopefully, you won't have a crop failure this year -- and, hopefully, neither will I with my peaches.
*Two Quotes*(it looks like two is better than one,let there be 2 Farmers Market on Sunday)
* A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
* Choose the lesser of two evils.
* Keep two hands above high water.
* Two heads are better than one.
* Two is company, three's a crowd. * It takes one person to forgive;*it takes two people*to be reunited. ~*Lewis B. Smedes
* It takes two days*to learn everything about a man; to know animals you will need more time. ~*Iranian Proverb
* It takes two flints to make a fire. ~*Louisa May Alcott
* It takes two guys*on a team to do very well in the end and be successful. ~ Ed Belfour
* It takes two men*to make a brother. ~*Israel Zangwill
* It takes two people*to ruin a perfectly good day. First a person who says something downright nasty about you, and second, a dear friend who makes sure you hear about it immediately. ~Author Unknown
* It takes two*to destroy a marriage. ~*Margaret Trudeau
* It takes two*to get one in trouble. ~*Mae West
* It takes two*to make a bargain. ~*American Proverb
* It takes two*to make a marriage a success and only one to make it a failure. ~*Herbert Samuel
* It takes two to make a murder. There are born victims, born to have their throats cut, as the cut-throats are born to be hanged. ~*Aldous Huxley
* It takes two*to make a quarrel. ~*Traditional Proverb
* It takes two*to quarrel, but only one to end it. ~*Spanish Proverb
* It takes two*to speak truth — one to speak, and another to hear. ~*Henry David Thoreau
* It takes two*to start an altercation, but only one to end it. ~*Nicaraeuan Proverb
* It takes two*to tango. ~*Traditional Proverb
* One can endure sorrow alone, but it takes two to be glad. ~ Elbert Hubbard
* The chain of wedlock is so heavy that*it takes two*to carry it — and sometimes three. ~*Alexandre Dumas
Recommended Reading
Um, and why not Saturday?
Not for nothing, but in the recent past there has been vehement opposition to the development of other properties on the edge of the downtown core partly over concerns of drawing people away from our small town commercial center. As the Barlow behemoth has a veneer of political correctness they seem to be given a pass here (as on traffic congestion and sucking business away from our core merchants), once again demonstrating it's a moveable standard in Sebastopol when it comes to what's important to this consciousness community. Haven't heard this raised as an issue regarding the Farmer's Market. My guess is that should the Barlow piss off enough former supporters it (being several blocks outside the core) will then become another issue of convenience.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by jbox:
my understanding is that you sued paula and the original sr market. and it resulted in a settlement, which you now regret and want to change. how exactly did marty lie? i don't get it from your posts.
one way we lie is not to tell the whole story. i can cite examples of you doing this. personally i think that sometimes this is a good and necessary thing, and usually no one has the whole story. if someone thinks they do, they are probably mistaken.
barry is clear that free speech is not the wacco promise. with the attention he has given you, it is clear to me he is really trying to work with you. i am glad he still allows you to post. i appreciate the info and passion you share. though i do not agree with you. i think the barlow crew are being stupid and predict their permit will be turned down.
you are correct that my first name is john. i have not used it since i left my family home 36 years ago, just doesn't fit me. i prefer my middle name, ross.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, so ill try again. I agreed to what I agreed to, even the rediculous caveat Paula insisted on. Now it's coming back to bite her in the rear because the Barlow wants no part of her legal baggage. This has nothing to do with regret, my dear... I actually find it very karmic that she is unwanted and doesn't like it. I'm actually trying to help her by saying if she'd like to change the agreement, to help her relationship with the Barlow, I be happy to oblige. If there's anyone regretting anything right now, it's Ms. Downing. I knew what I was signing, she didn't see this coming. Marty posted that the litigation had nothing to do with Sebastopol. She was not only completely wrong, but claimed to have seen the paperwork after I corrected her and she proceeded to correct me- It had everything to do with Sebastopol!!!! In fact, the whole thing started in Seb.!! She had the information, she knew the truth, yet chose not to speak the truth- to me, that's not knowing the whole story, that's a lie.
Not sure what examples you're referring to, but don't care. As anyone can see, I am very willing to talk. I'm just not sure though how you can argue that I don't know the whole story about my litigation and how the organization is structure and ran. It's actually my story! Not Marty's, not Michele Ana Jordan's, not Barry's- mine.Quote:
one way we lie is not to tell the whole story. i can cite examples of you doing this. personally i think that sometimes this is a good and necessary thing, and usually no one has the whole story. if someone thinks they do, they are probably mistaken.
I think there is a difference between "moderating" and "manufacturing," and limiting free speech outside the obvious justifiable reasons like profanity, threats, harassment, etc. is crossing the line from moderating debate to manufacturing concent.Quote:
barry is clear that free speech is not the wacco promise. with the attention he has given you, it is clear to me he is really trying to work with you. i am glad he still allows you to post. i appreciate the info and passion you share. though i do not agree with you. i think the barlow crew are being stupid and predict their permit will be turned down.
Shakespeare wrote,"What's in a name? A rose by any other name smells as sweet!" My point was two-fold:Quote:
you are correct that my first name is john. i have not used it since i left my family home 36 years ago, just doesn't fit me. i prefer my middle name, ross.
1) Barry's hard line policy on using your "real name" somehow being linked to credibility is neither well towed hard line nor relavent to credibility. Are you any less credible as Ross as you are John, or Moonbeam, or Prince, or whatever you want to call yourself? I contend- no.
2) The information is out there, you just have to be willing to find it. Too many people on this thread aren't actually interested in finding the information, the truth. They just want to develop opinions based on heresay. If people really cared, they'd find it, just like I found your real name and what "applefan" majored in in college. Wacco's just don't seem to want to deal in research and facts.
At the Farmer's Market today, the plaza looked naked without the Occupy tent. Don't think it belongs at the Barlow.
Wish there was an easy solution for having 2 markets: Sat @ Barlow, Sunday in the plaza.
I'm sorry for all the hard feelings going around, not picking sides, just hope everyone keeps it accurate and civil.
Heated and passionate points of view need to be heard just as much as the sweet and silly kind.
Yes we have an interesting history; thanks to Wacco, a of record of some of it.
I'm not judging anyone here, just suggesting - before taking action, please ask: is this fair, honest, or is it time to step away and get some air. Is it worth it to get worked up? Sometimes. Is this one of those times? What can be gained; what gets sacrificed?
I can relate to folks not being honest, respectful, fair; and feeling ganged up on. Additionally, I treasure the gratitude and kindness that's been expressed as well.
I also know that if I'm gonna dish harsh truth; I've got to be willing to take it. (Still not taking sides here.)
Let's see how well we can reduce and resolve our differences that stress us. Let's impress the lurkers, and any other life forms who may be observing, with a display of excellent problem solving skills.
If it matters to you, let the managers of both farmers markets know your preferences; perhaps both markets will be improved with your effective communication.
:goorganic: :dcngbrocli: :gravapple:
With all the other challenges we have from toxic: food, water, medicine, energy & politics; I hate when we lose steam fighting each other.
:waccosun:Progress anyone?
Colleen Fernald
5' 9'; blue eyes; brown hair
American of Irish, German, Scottish, & French decent
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Thomas Morabito:
so your charge that marty lied is because the settlement specified that neither you or paula could attend markets which the other was involved in? so since the existing sebastopol market is still managed by paula, marty's statement that the settlement had nothing to do with sebastopol is a lie?
also your words read like if this part of the settlement was dropped, the current market could move to the barlow (management and vendors). do you know this to be true? would you really be ok with this, what was originally planned?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
OOOuuuu do me,do me!!! Tell me something about me?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
I'm no fan of Hitchens. So sharing this quote demonstrates you don't have to like someone to appreciate at least some of what they do or say.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Peace Voyager:
Everyone deserves the right to respectfully speak their truth. If you take the time to listen with your mind open; you might learn something, or even change your: conclusions, preferences, habits & transgressions.
IMO Paula has done our community a great service for a long time providing a place for farmers and others to sell good food, etc to us. And I'd bet that just like me, if she could rewind and redo some things, she would.
Fortunately all of us have the opportunity to improve how we live, work & play.
Besides not have 2 markets on the same day, how can we motivate the mangers to elevate an ideal cooperative farmers market schedule? Poll for this? Can the existing market be improved?
Is peace possible in Sebastopol, or Waccoland?
I'll own my stuff, work on my edges, clean up some unresolved issues, look for ways to shine.
Evolution is a work in progress for us all; but can we make it a team sport?
PeaceVoyager:
I wish to thank you for your inspiring and moving post. Never since I have been a member of Waccobb have such sage words been needed, as I feel that this thread has brought out passion and emotion as perhaps no other thread in memory has.
To all who have posted here: Just remember, when a decision is made -- and I can assure you, a decision WILL be made -- we all STILL have to live in this place we call home. And to quote our excellent Sebastopol Mayor, Michael Keyes, when confronted with a difficult situation involving two people having an argument at a recent city council meeting, "Please. We're trying to have a community here."
Truly beautiful words. And I exhort all of you to remember them each time you post.
Thank you.
Thanks Tom,Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:
Being a veteran of waccoBB.net from incubation, and on Wacco's mothership @ yahoogroups for about 10 years, I've had many opportunities to passionately get it right and wrong.
I'd bet excerpts of the highs and lows of both would make a good book; let's start with the chapters on Green ways to treat ants and disinfect sponges. Remember other hot topics? How many strong opinions are missing now from those days?
Luckily Barry usually let's me gripe & promote where and when I need to. Though the past few years have left the waccoBB@yahoogroup rather stale and over-moderated.
But there I go again, slinging my opinion around ; )
Let's expand this discussion of Sebastopol Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow
to a live public forum.
Perhaps the Seb. Grange or the former Teen Center next to the
Seb. Community Center would be willing to hold the forum?
Gives the greater public a chance to weigh into this important decision.
Amalia
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp:
Nancy I was addressing the overall issue of the Sunday Farmers Market and not your "personal bad experience" with market management which is an entirely different issue. I'm not implying it's not an important issue and obviously is important for you. But I also feel it's important for participants to interact in a forum entitled, "Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow" without having to address your banishment and personal feelings which in my opinion cloud the main topic of this thread .Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
From your response, you also loved the Plaza Market and felt appreciated by the citizens who attended. Without getting into specifics which I feel is a topic for another thread I sincerely hope you find a way to rectify your issue by dealing directly with the person you have grievance with.
Sounds like what you're saying is, even though you loved the old market you would rather see it moved to a private venue so you can again participate. While I can understand your feelings, in the end one vendor's bad experience shouldn't dictate the final solution for everyone..
The "live public forum" will be the planning commission hearing where the Barlow use permit's application will be heard. This is the very best place to express your opinions and hear from others as well. The planning director has told me that it is tentatively scheduled for May 14 - PC meetings begin at 7:00 pm . In the meantime, you can contact our planning commissioners about the matter. Contacting them and showing up at the meeting will have much more real impact than a long drawn out debate here. Not that I discourage commenting here also - it has been very interesting and a way to get the word out.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by amalia:
I'm told by the Planning Director that the application by Barlow for the use permit for a market there is currently set for hearing at the Planning Commission of May 14.
I have given very specific reasons why I support the Barlow:
1) it was the original plan, supported by Paula, people on this thread (the community), and the vendors (I was there when they voted for it)
2) it offers opportunity to farmers the plaza can not
3) it has parking, the plaza does not
4) it will redirect traffic to Morris St. and Laguna Pkwy (did you see the traffic yesterday at 1:00? Awful!)
5) it will be a fresh management that does not have the polarizing reputation of the current manager.
Yes, I liked the plaza- when there wasn't a BETTER option. You people want me to have an open mind, be respectful, hear what you say, compromise, blah blah blah, and yet when I set the record straight on false information (like who/what the litigation involved) you respond with this condescending, passive agressive comment. Furthermore, if my "personal bad experience" was a "personal good experience" then u would say it has a place on this thread, because it was "positive," "community- minded," and basically, what you want to hear. With all due respect, I find this problem to be rampant on this board, and that very practice to be hypocritical.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Rnomistakes:
This has been a very active thread. If you are getting instant email updates and would like them to stop, all you need to do is click the Unsubscribe button on the bottom of your email. That will stop the instant emails but this thread will still be included in your Daily Digest.
Nancy, I see that you have recently summarized why you support the move of the Farmers Market to the Barlow. You have made your point. In fact you have made you point many times. It's time to give it a rest.
However, there are few of things I'd like you to address:
1) Clearly you once were a vendor of the Sebastopol Farmer's Market and perhaps others. Are you currently vendor at any farmer's market? Do you plan to be a vendor sometime soon?
2) What's driving your obvious passion about this? It sure seems to be a personal vendetta regarding your "personal bad experience" with Paula which includes a lawsuit that I believe you initiated.
3) What is the legal restriction that you think that presents such a problem for The Barlow to welcoming Paula along with the SFM? Is it that you, your sister, (and Dan Smith?) are subject to a restraining order?
This is a community discussion about the future of Farmer's markets in Sebastopol. I refuse to let you co-opt it for your own personal objectives, Nancy.
If you wish to continue to participate I'm asking you to moderate (" avoiding extremes of behavior or expression : observing reasonable limits") your postings by limiting yourself to 1 post per 24hour period and avoiding repeating points that you have already made. You've posted 30 times as "Nancy M Prebilich" and 20 times as "lizzysweet" that includes lots of redundancy.
Please don't dominate the rap Jack
if you got nothing new to say
-- Robert Hunter
There are other members that support the Barlow's request for a Sunday market. This is not an attempt at manufacturing consent but rather keeping and orderly and balanced discussion.
I walked over to the site of the proposed market at The Barlow on Gravenstein Court from the plaza. The walk down McKinley Street isn't long, but it also isn't just next store. With trying to allow for the fact the space is still under contruction, I did not find the space all that inviting. The two huge parallel buildings that largely enclose the space are quite formidable and dwarf the small trees that have been planted (that no doubt will grow over time). It's also a very linear space that doesn't feel as organic as the more controlled chaos of the plaza.
It is a much larger space. In my mind it's open question if it can be filled sufficiently to give it a sense of vibrancy and intimacy even without a competing market, and I think it will feel deficient in terms of both vendors and attendess if they proceed with their plans to have the market at the same time as the plaza market. If the market continues at the plaza, I don't think a second market at the Barlow will thrive, but it would suck some of the life out of the plaza market, earning The Barlow some well deserved ill-will.
Clearly it seems it would better if The Barlow would have a market on any other day but Sunday, as I suggested long ago. Again, I hope Bret or someone from The Barlow will explain their thinking about this.
On the other hand, I think the twin/compatabile goals of offering a larger community experience and luring people into the new Barlow space would be served by having some sort street fair along McKinely street, as I believe Paula has suggested, beginning across the street from the market and culminating at the corner at Gravenstein Court. There is a nice community green space at that corner.
This would also free up the large Gravenstein court for parking that would encourage people to begin their experience of the expanded market from that point (which is also adjacent to future home of Community Market).
This addtional parking would also make it more feasibe for the plaza market to expand into the full length of Weeks Way to where it meets Petaluma Ave and into the parking area south of the market that connects to Hwy 12, although that might be too much area, when combined with McKinely street fair, but maybe not.
The McKinley street fair could start off as a monthly event with a particular focus help get it started.
Space could be made available for community groups, crafts, more music, healers, art, wine/beer, along with the many vendors from The Barlow, etc...
Could be really sweet....
The key point is to extend the current market towards The Barlow, rather creating a separate space. The management of the McKinley market could be handled by the Sebastopol Farmer's Market, The Barlow, or some other organization.
This would create increased pressure on the crosswalk betwteen the plaza and McKinley. Perhaps a crossing gaurd would help with that.
Really, Barry?! Really. "Restraining-order?" Implied link to "Dan Smith?" You sure know how to plant seeds, don't you! I hope anyone with common sense sees right through this, and you folks watching from the side-lines, NOW is the time to speak up. This is INSANE! No, Barry, you get no answers to these undignified questions because you, sir, are not worthy of answers. As you said, I've made all my points clear and YOU have revealed YOURSELF!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Can't we all just get along?--Rodney King
I personally don't care if it was the "original plan", and Paula is welcomed to her opinion but I was never on board with moving the Plaza Market.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
I'm all for a market at the Barlow and you've given some good reasons why it could be a good location. But not if it replaces or competes with the current Sunday Market in the public Market. The Plaza Market has it's own charm and adds so much to downtown Sebastopol. There's nothing in your argument that convinces me that the current market warrants replacement. While I respect your opinion I just don't agree with it.
There was nothing in my comment that was passive or condescending. I attempted to be polite but I thought it was pretty clear. I personally don't care about the litigation and your past personal problems with current management and they don't sour my opinion or affect my overall good feelings about the current market. One person's personal disappointment with the current management just doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me. And there's no guarantee some vendor won't have a problem with the Barlow management. Such is life.
I also have no desire to control how you feel about the Plaza Market management , or whether you're community minded. Again, I'm fine with your desire to move the Sunday market to the Barlow, it's a valid opinion, I just don't agree with it.
Wow, lots of back-and-forth opinions on this thread, but there really are only a few people participating.
So . . . I hope no one is going around spreading gossip that the residents of Sebastopol intend to boycott all our local businesses once they open in the Barlow center, just because of a couple active Wacco threads that contain post about people being very unhappy with the idea of expanded marketing options on Sundays.
Maybe a couple people on this thread perceive concurrent Sunday markets as competing. But I don't see even a significant number of WaccoBB posters participating here, much less the general community of Sebastopol. I only see one farmer/potential market vendor participating. Please, let's keep this thread in perspective and not assume that it represents what all of us think or feel.
I surely hope to see the whole Barlow project thrive. I, personally, like the aesthetics of the Barlow buildings and look forward to the charm that will come once the tenants start putting their personal marks on the place and the plants are growing. I look forward to saying: Yes, you don't have to be a big box store to develop commercial land in Sonoma County; look at the Barlow project! We can do big AND local and do well.
Wow! We get Community Market in Sebastopol!
Yay! I hope an expanded Sunday market will be followed by a mid-week afternoon-into-evening market!