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The Barlow has been asked to make decisions on how best to go about having a Farmer's Market on our site. We want to hear from the community.
What do you want to see at a Barlow's Farmer's Market?
What day of the week?
What time of the day?
What type of vendors?
What type of entertainment, if any?
We appreciate your open and honest feedback.
Night Market. Wednesday night. 6-10. Live local entertainment.
I'd go. And I don't go to the Sunday morning ones.
It is important to support local growers. I hesitate to call them farmers as local farmers are too conservative and use too many chemicals. So natural and organic local growers are the who.
Are we replacing or competing with the Sunday market? If competing, you have a problem. I would like to see it folded in and expanded. Maybe two days all day. Please no geegaws and crafts.
Expand food in a smaller Oaxaca-like market and with international food.Try to respect Santa Rosa market days.
Love the idea of promoting small bands and music groups of any kind.
ernie carpenter
sorry I don't know what "geegaws" are, but why no local crafts? local woodturners, cheese makers, weavers using local wool,etc.... in the spring ,summer, fall there is more produce for farmers/growers to sell and maintain the market. In the winter crafts people have more product and opportunity to sell.. we need a balance to keep the F/M functioning all year round.
Ultimately we all vote in the market place. Just don't buy what You don't want or like. Those businesses will go out...
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Posted in reply to the post by Ernieman:
Our current Sunday Farmer's market is probably the sweetest community gathering in all the U.S.A. - children , trees-grass , central music stage and so natural . The flow of people is so friendly and interacting - imo because the flow is like 'circular' {outer , inner and comingling circles } and always easily interweaving .
If this ever comes to an end , i feel we will lose an incredible&beautiful way of being together and mingling with our friends , nature , music , children and the vendors .
The Barlow { at this stage and probably later } looks very sterile , corporate , all linear , concrete - much less friendly ,less natural , no harmonious flow =industrial type design , designed for profit.
i wish we can keep our beautiful Sunday Farmer's market the way it is ; i regret that chasing the all-mighty dollaris a reason that we may lose this magnificent quaint style of our gathering .
Our market is a special treasure of our commonunity and being beautifully with our friends and neighbors - i hope we don't lose this treasure .
i wonder if we really have a voice in this move , or if any body inquired what we want . My guess is that the vendors voted and that is the prime reason we are moving .
I should clarify: I "don't go" to the Sunday Farmer's market not because it's not a beautiful thing, it's just that Sundays are quite busy for me with other things. I traveled in Thailand, Indonesia and Vietnam and the night markets were exciting and quite the sights to see.
I'd hate to see the Sunday market end or change in any way. I didn't read this as an either/or choice. That said, I'm sure this community can support two markets per week.
Caverly, I do hope it's not as grim as your post makes it sound!
Surely those who want to offer fresh local produce at the Barlow mean to do so IN ADDITION to our Sunday market? I, for one, cannot get to the Sunday market on the Plaza or the one at The French Market or anywhere else, at this point, without going into Santa Rosa on Saturday. So, a market one or two evenings a week, downtown, with great local entertainment and visiting groups and other kinds of performances would be a great addition to our whole downtown ambiance, which I certainly pray will eventually spread and permeate throughout The Barlow and the Pellini property.
I vote for Monday and Friday. That way, fresh weekend harvest will be available at the beginning of the week and what's left over on Friday will be discounted and go into the soup pot over the weekend... a win-win-win- o, well, you get the point...
... and then that same "farmers market" Barlow space could be used by other vendors other days and nights and weekends (maybe selling one-of-a-kind made-in-Sebastopol "Genuine Gee-Gaws" and other handmade crafts, jars of jams and jellies, handmade baskets for produce, whatevers, and it could be a wonderful variety show of what we have to offer here in the heart of our community! Dancers will dance, musicians will make music, bakers will bake, and we can all (citizens and thousands of visitors from all parts of the globe) dance and sing and play among the streets of Sebastopol, from The Barlow property, Laguna Parkway, up past the theater to Occupy Sebastopol at the Plaza and Main Street and down Sebastopol Avenue to whatever creative and imaginative development finally manifests in our heart-center, the New Heart of Sonoma Center, and down the street to Peace in Medicine and Koffee Katz and then back across the street to The Barlow properties... or, others might just walk down to the Community Center, or visit the Laguna, or walk around to Rite-Aid or Safeway or Martha's Mexican Restaurant, or anyplace else in downtown Sebastopol.
Then, all we need is a clean, efficient, but attractive and sustainable hospice (or something like it) to accommodate all of those visitors who will want to come and see what a great place we've made of our priceless jewel! Maybe somewhere on the Pellini property?
Anyway, the point being, let's get a vision that brings all of our small businesses together in a sweet flow of success, on a map our downtown merchants will be proud to be part of and countless individuals and groups from other towns and cities will come here to gather inspiration and ideas to take back to their communities to implement before they, too, become Big Box Cities. And let's implement procedures NOW to prevent a CVS/Chase travesty in the future! If its necessary to change some rules or regulations somewhere along the way, so be it -- but let's get 'er done!
Such a waste of valuable time and energy having all these contentious attitudes running rampant around our streets -- who wants to go walk around in that?!? Thanks CVS/Chase! Thanks Jamie Dimond!! Thanks, those who brought us to this! Thanks for the opportunity to "share" my opinions!
The post about the trees, grass, flow of people, almost made me cry because it is so precious and so true and so very close to being gone and nobody but us can keep our downtown a loving community gathering place!
Many Blessings!
Rev. BE :heart:
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Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
We have yet to decide on how we will move forward with a farmer's market. One of the major factors in our decision making is the feedback we receive from the community. So, please encourage others to join in on this conversation.
We understand your impressions of The Barlow and hope over time we can shift your thoughts a bit. The objective of The Barlow is to create a lifestyle campus where local artisans, producers and community connect and inspire. This project was inspired by voices in the community. Although we cannot satisfy everyone's voice, we aim to listen and respect all feedback.
We know The Barlow looks very concrete at this time, but there are plans to incorporate apple trees, other edible plants, culinary herbs, berries and more throughout the site.
Thank you for your feedback.
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Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
Thank you for using WaccoBB.net as way to reach the local community for feedback about a farmer's market at The Barlow!
Can you please clarify the relationship between the farmer's market you are considering hosting and the existing Sebastopol Farmer's Market on Sunday's in the plaza?
Is the proposal for that market to move to The Barlow and cease operating at the plaza on Sundays?
Or for that market to continue as is and add an additional day of operations at The Barlow?
Or are you looking at organizing a new market in addition to the sunday market?
Or ???
Thanks! :waccosun:
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
Barry,
All options you listed are a possibility. Apologies for being so vague, but our objective here is to listen and not get wrapped up in specifics at this time. We are open to all options. Once we have enough feedback we can start providing options or a more defined plan.
Thank you for providing the forum to have this conversation. :thumbsup:
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
I am totally up with this discussion and appreciate that Barlow is willing to have a public discussion. The term Farmer's Market leads one to conclude it rivals, resembles the current Sunday market in the square. Therefore, my comments were limited to that impression. It appears that the Barlow is imagining something broader in terms of a Farmer's Market. So, maybe this should be a broader discussion.
My consideration is the broad support the current Sunday Market holds in the community. That needs to be maintained and transitioned if Barlow is going to offer the same kind of activities. Of course it can all exist in the same community. At the appropriate time perhaps WaccoBB and Barlow can sponsor a real time public discussion. We all want a positive community form and discussion is positive. A community brainstorm with no commitment except to listen! Ready when you are!
Geegaws are "trinkets and baubles" usually made in China these days. Stuff you don't need. Local art is good. More art the better.
Ernieman
I rarely make it to the Sunday market . . . too much to do at home and we're already out and about town Mon-Fri. I'm placing my response within the post below. In addition, I would like to see farmer's market prices that match the Santa Rosa market prices. I don't know how prices are set, but Sebastopol prices are higher for the same items from the same vendor. I've seen this repeatedly and finally asked a vendor that I purchase from at both markets. I found that Sebastopl vendors simply get to charge more due to the location. I know that many people have and/or choose to spend more to support local farmers in West County, but high prices mean local food is less accessible for many . . .especially elders on fixed income.
: )
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
Allorrah Be,
Surely you meant Hostel, and not Hospice? Unless there's something about the miraculous healing powers of Town, that I have not heard about...
New Town Slogan, The Lourdes of West County!!
Hell, why not, The Lourdes of The North Bay!!!
Chimayo On The Laguna?
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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:
I already have some alternate routes to avoid the downtown area at what are presently high traffic times.
If the CVS/Chase juggernaut gets built, I won't be going to any farmer's market (or much of anything else) that's happening in that area; if the small businesses or farmers' markets expect to get more action as a result of CVS/Chase, they won't be getting it from me.
Yes, it does look sterile at the moment but I think it will be an attractive development once it's completed. Here's a rendering of the proposed area for the farmer's market (if I've got it right):Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
Thanks for the clarification! :waccosun:
If for no other reason than people hate change, my sense is that it would be best if the current Sunday market stays at the plaza. It seems to work really well and having the plaza there makes it quite sweet!
It would seem "politically" good as well leave the sunday market there, so as not to explicitly reduce the focus on downtown, while establishing The Barlow as a destination.
Adding an a mid week afternoon/evening market seems to make the most sense, but a Saturday market could also be good.
I'd like to see it expand beyond produce to include LOCAL items of all sorts, along with tables for community groups and perhaps service providers, too.
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
I live on Bodega, and I'm totally boycotting "the Intersection" except twice a week when I have to go into Santa Rosa. I use 116 now for credit union, groceries, water machine, hardware/pet supplies, thrift store, auto parts, and ice cream... definitely NOT CVS/Chase!! I also go the other direction on 116 to my doctor, Curves, gas and groceries. So, there's precious little I must have from the downtown Heart of Sebastopol--except the :heart:
May we all love each other through this unsettling time in our town!
Rev. BE
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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
As a supporter of local artists and crafts people, I would love to see more farmers' markets embrace them, especially those who make useful, organic items. When we used to go the the grocery store, we enjoyed the convenience of picking up our sundries there too. Now, if we shop at Farmers' markets, we have to make a host of other stops. Some of us don't have that sort of time. And, I would far prefer to get my home health care needs met at a farmers' market than at CVS!
HydroSouls
There is a good chance CVS/Chase will not get built. For more information go to:
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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:
You are absolutely right!!! Forgive me!!!
I did mean a hostel, not a hospice! But your post is priceless... thanks for turning
my mistake into something hilarious!
:heart:
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Posted in reply to the post by Mad Miles:
Could someone do an overarching explanation here? The Sebastopol Farmers Market is listed as a tenant on thebarlow.net so I'm a bit confused by this talk about The Barlow not knowing what direction it will be taking re: a farmers market. Did I miss something?
Also, last I heard Rosso and Zazu were involved, too, but they are not listed as tenants.
Clarification, please.
This important thread got a little off track. Let's return it to the question at hand:
Anybody else have any comments? Would you like to see it on a mid-week day or evening? Should local crafts be offerred? Should non-local (outside of Sonoma County) and/or non-organic produce be offered?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
Any time , as long as Sunday Market is left the way it is !
Hi all,
I'm a loyal Sunday am market goer though would support a mid-week market for needed items. My suggestions/input:
- Wed or Thurs,
- 4-7 pm,
- organic vendors,
- surrounding counties like Marin, Napa etc ok,
- love any type of music,
- crafts/soaps etc also good with me as I like to buy directly from the folks rather than go in a store. (Especially during the holiday season.)
Thanks for asking :waccosun:
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Keep sunday.
Add Friday evening with local music.
Local produce and crafts emphasized. Absolutely no mass produced junk.
Food and drink booths should provide ample tables.
I'd like to see the Farmer's market remain at the same day and time as it is now, with similar offerings of goods available , music and food for sale. It is important that the Sebastopol Farmer's Market retain its family friendly environment and that it support local farmers, artisans, etc.
I sincerely hope that the Farmer's market will include an outdoor, smoke-free area and live music.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
West Sonoma County needs and could support a mid-week farmers market. I think a Tuesday or Wednesday, 4 to 6:30 or 7 p.m., would be ideal, at a central location. It seems logical for the Sebastopol farmers market to take on the project, given that they have the infrastructure and a long record of success and expansion.
It has been my understanding that the existing market has agreed to be part of The Barlow. But this thread is making me wonder, as it sounds, at times, like a reinvention of the wheel. Can anyone speak to this?
Regarding the issue whether or not out-of-area farmers should be admitted, this is covered by certified farmers market regulations. A market cannot exclude a farm based solely on geography.
My understanding is that the current Sunday market WANTS to expand into the Barlow to allow more room for more growers. I love the idea of an evening market - maybe that will encourage our downtown stores to stay open longer in the evening, so working people can shop there! Twice a week would be good - maybe one weekend day and one evening.
What I DON'T want to see is that new Farmers market group that pushed the Original Market out of the Santa Rosa Vets bldg take over our Sebastopol Market. They are the ones that recently tried to have a market at the exact same time as our lovely existing market.
I hope Paula Downing, who has tirelessly shepherded our market for all these years, will have a big voice in this.
we have the best farmers market already...in the plaza. it is carefully curated by Paula Downing to afford all the farmer participants an opportunity to make some money, by keeping a balance of merchants, never too many folks selling the same things. Our farmers market is a critical component of community building in Sebastopol. I do NOT want to see a farmers market at the Barlow. Our community is not large enough for another farmers market. this sounds fishy and familiar, as when another group tried to establish a competing market at the Vets building a few months ago. tThe Barlow will have wonderful and interesting producers renting there. Let the shoppers at the Sebastopol farm market, and the tourists, and those who don't shop at farm markets go over there and enjoy, any day of the week.
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
The one very-wrong answer is to have a another market at The Barlow on Sundays. Please do not do that! :waccosun:
It was also my understanding when The Barlow project was presented before the Planning Commision, that our current Sunday, Farmer's Market wanted to move to The Barlow. That they wanted to move from the Town Plaza, so they could expand and be open more days. Have no idea if this was true and they changed their mind or if this is the Farmer's Market, that the survey is addressing.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
It is my iunderstanding that the Sunday Farmers Market was recently told they were not welcome at the Barlow in their current incarnation. The Barlow said they are looking for a more "professional" management.. The survey is addressing the possibility of starting a different farmers market.
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Posted in reply to the post by ywv:
i had heard that the vendors had voted to move to the Barlow ; it would make me happy if the Barlow nixed this plan . At this point , only Paula probably really knows { or perhaps the vendors know }. Perhaps we will be able to inquire next Sunday and find out how things stand . Or perhaps "Barlow" will respond to our need-to-know and tell us the current status ; they invited us into this discussion so perhaps they will disclose the current status .
From the Sebastopol Farm Market News yesterday Nov. 4, 2012: Third paragraph: "This past week, we were notified by Bret (Bret Martin, new financial partner of The Barlow) that our market is not welcome as a tenant at The Barlow - that they are considering hiring a professional market manager to develop a Barlow Farmer's Market".
Who wants to go to a place where one is not welcome?
IMHO I think 10pm is to late, 5 - 9, 4-9 or 6-9 would be better on weeknights. They are not very visable, but there are people living less than a block from the Plaza. Within two blocks there are a lot of people living and on Sunday morning, they can hear the Farmer's Market, like they were standing in the middle of the Plaza.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ceni:
If this is true, I will not be going to a market at the Barlow.
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Posted in reply to the post by fafner:
The Sebastopol Farmer's Market has been taken off of our list of tenants as we work through this delicate decision. We want to respect the current Sunday Market and not share conversations we're having with them. Please continue to express your views as they are extremely helpful in how we move forward.
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
Thank you Barry for this very important request.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
I moved away from Sebastopol a few months ago but I thought I'd share my perspective as my heart is still deeply connected to the area. If I were still living in Seba I would be quite excited about a second farmers market. I was often out of town on the weekends and missed out the market and wished that there was one on an alternate day. I think a mid week evening market would be perfect. I feel that the interest in locally grown food is growing exponentially and if having a second market will draw more people out to support local farmers than bring it on. the more the merrier. I feel support for this type of growth should be welcomed in. It is too bad that there is so much controversy and drama around the issue. One person should not have control of the availability and access to locally grown food. If the community is able to financially support another market then it will be clear it's time for growth. I guess time will tell. Good luck to the Barlow center, the vendors they take in and to the Seba community!
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
All along, I thought we might be talking about keeping the current market on the Plaza on Sunday and
maybe having a second market at The Barlow open at a different time, so we have choice, not domination
of the market.
For those of us who are unable to get to the Sunday market, we NEED a second market, preferrably in the evening so working people can get there too. I really do not comprehend what the issue is for people who see only competition and division in this conversation. As far as I am concerned, we could have a Farmer's Market every day of the week and eliminate many trips to Safeway, Whole Foods, Lucky, etc., etc., etc.
Consider San Rafael: They have the immensely popular market at the Civic Center on the weekend. They
also have an evening market downtown during the week, with music and other forms of entertainment, lots of samples, booths serving great food and great community spirit. Nobody is boycotting one market and only going to the other; these markets are enjoying more and more visitors all the time and are limited only by the amount of space they have for more vendors. They probably don't have time to worry about competition!
I say, the more the merrier -- and don't leave out the local handmade products, whether crafts or cooked specialties, those fabulous chocolates made here in Sebastopol, home-made jams and sauces and dressings and all sorts of stuff we used to buy at Whole Foods until we found out about all the GMOs.
See you all at the markets!!
Rev. BE :heart:
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
Thank you for your great response! We like that the community is open to all the options on the table. We are not in this conversation to cause conflict, just options.
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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:
the word was always that the barlow would be the existing farmers market, now this is off the list? why? do you have a problem with the sebastopol farmers market? why do you not want to talk to paula? this does not meet my need for respect.
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Posted in reply to the post by The Barlow:
We are speaking with Paula and her team. We simply want to hear from the community with their thoughts about moving forward. There is a lot of love for the current Sebastopol Farmer's Market and we want to respect that. If you have specific questions, I can direct you to the person doing the direct communication with all parties involved.
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
Please note that this is a delicate situation. We know we can't please everyone, but are doing our best to remain positive. Our goal is to come up with a scenario that will satisfy the community. If you'd like to ask specific questions to Bret Martin, please reply privately and I will provide you with his contact info.
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Posted in reply to the post by fafner:
This is what I heard today also. That Bret Martin stated "We are not welcome as a tenant" I now believe that Bret has a new plan of which Barney has approved of.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
Then, In my opinion, we are not meant to move.....Remember that Barney approached us (The Farmers Market) and asked if we would consider joining his new dream. I believe at the time Barney must have considered that us moving to His new location would be a wonderful way of introducing the Sebastopol Community to the Barlow....And it was......Barney has made a very unfortunate and destructive decision.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by fafner:
He must not be aware of how far reaching and involved the Sebastopol Community is with our Market;
and he has no idea how fortunate he was that we decided to move in the first place.
Barney should do some research on the history of the markets, especially the one in Sebastopol. I think it would be a good idea to sit down with some of the founders and some long term customers so that he could get a sense of the development of the markets. They were not always as they are today but newcomers who don't pursue their history are unaware of this, of course.
Paula Downing transformed both the Santa Rosa Original Market and the Sebastopol market. Her vilification by a small group of individuals is unfair, self-serving and does not at all reflect her extraordinary contribution to our community. Paula understands and loves farmers as much and possibly more than anyone I've ever met. She is a genius when it comes to balancing a market so that customers can find what they need and want and farmers can earn a decent living. Before Paula took over these two markets, they were okay but not the the thriving, must-go destinations they have become under her direction. Paula has not only made the markets thrive; she has--intentionally or not, I have no idea--transformed them into our commons, the place where we not only buy the local foods that sustain us but also connect with our neighbors, make new friends and feel, simply, connected.
Why anyone would suggest that she is not a professional manager is beyond me.
The Barlow would be lucky--blessed, even--to have the Sebastopol farmers market under its umbrella.
If you want to say anything to Barney about opening another farmers market
at The Barlow, here are his addresses:
Barney Aldridge
The Barlow
P.O. Box 1771
Ross, CA 94957
[email protected]
Please take 5 minutes to communicate your thoughts to Barney. It could
help everyone.
Thanks.......
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
"Paula Downing transformed both the Santa Rosa Original Market and the Sebastopol market. Her vilification by a small group of individuals is unfair, self-serving and does not at all reflect her extraordinary contribution to our community. Paula understands and loves farmers as much and possibly more than anyone I've ever met. She is a genius when it comes to balancing a market so that customers can find what they need and want and farmers can earn a decent living."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I have been to both the Wells Fargo and Vet's market. I was there in the last days when Paula was telling everyone that there would be NO market at the Vet's building. Then it was... there's only 3 vendors staying. When I learned that those were straight out lies, when I saw for myself the parking lot FULL of vendors, as though nobody had ever left (I know some did, but a heck of a lot stayed...far more than she led anyone to believe), I was disgusted. Your so-called "small group of individuals" is in actuality, NOT SO SMALL! And why was it that the vendors who stayed have managed to work with the county regarding the rent, whereas Paula clearly failed?! Meanwhile, she gave them ultimatums; "You have to choose- us or them!" I know a LOT of vendors who have multiple locations on the same day, or fluctuate between multiple markets, and would have liked to have done both markets...and they are NOT "big corporate farms;" another one of Paula's lies. She was the one who opened a new market location, at the same time and day as those farmers who had been at the Vet's for 40 years and chose to stay. WHO'S THE DIVISIVE ONE?!
I applaud those farmers who took matters into their own hands, gave her the boot, and stayed poot. Clearly Paula does not understand or love the farmers more than the farmers understand and love their own customers and themselves. KUDOS to you farmers who solved whatever problems Paula had with the county and have kept your marketplace alive and well!! And frankly, what do you consider a "decent living," because from what I understand from the vendors I shop with....everyone has been hurt by Paula's actions! In fact, I've started to see vendors that moved to Wells Fargo starting to return to the Vet's because they want to go back to how it was! And what was that business of kicking Marc Felton out of Sebastopol because he didn't have enough chicken (her words). Seriously?! I use to buy chicken, but also his pork and eggs, and lamb all the time! Ironic that that happened at the exact same time as when he announced to his customers that he would also be selling at the Vet's Bldg. under the new organization! The same exact thing those girls said happened to them!
"Why anyone would suggest that she is not a professional manager is beyond me."
Uuuuh, did you read the PD where they announced she forked out $30,000 to settle that case with those poor girls? You don't pay that kind of money if you've been nothing but "professional." Perhaps you should ask Dan Smith to see the compilation that he put together, of actual SR Market minutes and financials, that he gave over to the district attorney. What you'll find is pretty astonishing. Sounds to me like he shared that info. with the Barlow and they know better to stay away...far far away....from Ms. Downing. I say, "SMART MOVE BARNEY!" Perhaps you need to follow your own advice and research some history. After hearing her lies, reading her quotes, talking to that not so small group at the Vet's, and seeing actual documents.... it should not be beyond you or anyone else, why she is not what a small group here on Wacco make her out to be; a guru among insipid moronic farmers who would be otherwise lost without her.
STAY AWAY FROM PAULA DOWNING, BARLOW!!! She's caused enough havoc for our local farmers and community members. There are other fish in the sea; Wells Fargo has found one, Redwood Empire has found one... you CAN TOO!
I think the tone of this post goes a long way towards underscoring the points I made in a previous post. And I don't find it productive to respond in detail to such vitriol though it is quite easy to document the inaccuracy of these claims should anyone be so inclined.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
I would, however, like to emphasize a primary point I made previously. The markets have a long arc and no matter what anyone thinks of Paula Downing today it is impossible to argue accurately that she did not transform the markets she has managed. They are more dynamic, successful, diverse and important to our daily lives than before she arrived.
Of course, she stood on the shoulders of those managers who came before her, building on foundations that were already established and taking them to new levels. I find her vilification terribly sad and, because it is based on lies, terribly frustrating.
Wow. OM...Oversentive misinterpretation. To call others liars just increases the vitiol. They have their opinions, based on their experiences. I am aware of favoritism that had happened when there were folks on a waiting list. Some vendors were replaced by others that had not waited.Based on this experience, I was not so impressed with Paula.
I think there is plenty of room for our diverse community to have the Farmers' Markets, with crafts. Ernie Carpenter tone about "no crafts" was insulting til he explained what he meant..There are so many talented artisans in West Sonoma County. When I travel, I go to the Farmers' Markets to see local crafts. It is produced here and belongs at the market.
Good luck with this, I will frequent all of them to minimize the need to shop in a big corporate store.
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
hi..i am bret martin and im in charge of the farmers market decision making here at the barlow. if you contact barney he will refer you to me. call me 7073213707 or email [email protected].
there will be a just fair inclusive market at the barlow or there will be no market. its not about money its about the farmers. if you are unhappy with what you think is happening at the barlow i challenge you to invite me over for coffee and a chat and when its over we will be friends working together to benefit all the farmers who deserve a safe environment to sell their goods. and the crafters too.
lets not let stale alliances blind us from the truth..fighting threats lawsuits restraining orders ..not here..we want a fresh start without the baggage and fear ..we deserve better
hi..are you up for helping shape the market at the barlow?
please contact me
bret
Please direct all questions and conversations about the Market and The Barlow to Bret Martin 707-321-3707 or email [email protected].
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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
--- To your point that Paula Downing; A) transformed the markets, and B) they are more dynamic, successful, diverse, etc...I agree with part A. As for part B, it only works if you turn a blind eye to the current phase of Paula's "transformation". Many of the vendors at Wells Fargo market are really struggling. Attendance is sagging & vendor incomes are down by 50 - 70%. Some have begun to defect to the Redwood market at the Vets building. If you talk to vendors in Sebastapol, you'll find they aren't willing to speak candidly in front of Paula. They'll tell you privately that she's already ousted some vendors who wouldn't follow her to Wells Fargo.
I know the party line is that Paula single-handedly breathed life into these markets....the facts reveal a legacy of fear and decay. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Where there's this much smoke, there's Paula Downing.
I would like to see the Barlow start with a clean slate. It really is time for a fresh start!
Sorry to be such a negative voice, but I have a positive motive. The negative - I've heard the tireless shepherd call customers "f...ing idiots" behind their backs and tell vendors to "f " off to their face. Those who haven't seen that side defend her - and I understand that. It's kind of hard to believe it unless you've seen it with your own two eyes. My positive motive - let's make a new choice that makes everybody feel good.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:
"The Barlow { at this stage and probably later } looks very sterile , corporate , all linear , concrete - much less friendly ,less natural , no harmonious flow =industrial type design , designed for profit.
i wish we can keep our beautiful Sunday Farmer's market the way it is ; i regret that chasing the all-mighty dollaris a reason that we may lose this magnificent quaint style of our gathering . "
I'm not sure what planet you live on, but it's not earth! Farmer's markets do not exist so you can get warm fuzzy feelings of "commonunity." They exist so farmers have a central place to sell their wares directly to the public.... FOR A PROFIT! They too have bills to pay, they too have children whom they'd like to send to college. The farmer's market is not your community church or west county hippie lovefest where followers of Pastor Paula go to be baptized. People like you who treat farmers like zoo animals, there for your gauging and entertainment, really chap my hide; it's disrespectful, unrealistic, and an embarrassment. If we don't design for profit, honey, then all that'll be left will be vineyards and zoos.
Hey Brett and Barney,
Keep smart meters, cel towers, wi fi, etc. OUT of Barlow, bring local Green interior products in.
I hope you will strongly consider making you project the Greenest ever; right down to the interiors, with help from Susan Bahl of Keystone Green in Rohnert Park. She has a wide range of knowledge on Green products.
If residents and visitors have the confidence that The Barlow is safe for all electro-sensitive people; that can be one of your most important features as well.
I think having a plaza based Sunday Farmer's market is important. I would also love to see Community Market become a co-op at The Barlow in Sebastopol, for a year round community run CSA kind of Farmer's Market.
How can I help facilitate all of these recommendations for you all?
Much thanks
See
Flooring Myths Busted in the Sonoma County Gazzette here:
www.sonomacountygazette.com/cms/pages/sonoma-county-news-article-763.html
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hi..i am bret martin and im in charge of the farmers market decision making here at the barlow. 7073213707 or email [email protected].
... working together to benefit all the farmers who deserve a safe environment to sell their goods. and the crafters too.
lets not let stale alliances blind us from the truth..fighting threats lawsuits restraining orders ..not here..we want a fresh start without the baggage and fear ..we deserve better
I have a solution, we will now all shop at the Original Santa Rosa Farmer's Market at the Wells Fargo Center on Saturday mornings. Lets give honest non-spiteful community-oriented Farmers their due, (our support). I personally think it unbecoming for Sebastopuddlers to be so mean and spiteful toward Paula Downing. Stop this UGLY WAR and get your priorities straight. I personally worked with Paula on many community events at her markets. As our Bennett Valley Senior Center was threatened with closure Paula let me set up a Save our Senior Center table weekly for over a month in her market. Paula herself was the most generous donor of cash among all who donated. We still love you Paula in spite of your being put in the crucible, and I kaow that you will come through this still a whole, generous, loving person. THANK YOU PAULA DOWNING for rising above the mudslingers and petty competition. Dorothy Friberg
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
You sound like a good person Dorothy, but did it ever occur to you that other people might have information that you don't - or that there may be a valid position other than yours? I give generously to my family & community - I too am a good person. I didn't just wake up one morning and choose to be uncharicistically spiteful or to wage an ugly war. Many things in life are not as they outwardly appear. I think an open mind is the first step in solving any problem.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:
hi
Hating on Paula or anyone is just hurtful and serves no purpose. Humans are magical and multi faceted indeed. I'm proud of Paula for earning so many loyal friends and helping out cancer patients with free food too. Im a colon cancer ileostomy chemo survivor and our baby just finished three years of chemo.I admire those who, like Paula, help those in great need. That being said, these admirable traits sadly don't make us qualified for jobs that require among other things a solid reputation free of damaging controversy.Even if I were to ignore all the hearsay, which is plentiful, I cannot deny the documented evidence that Paula is clearly not suited to run a farmers market at the Barlow. I am a firm believer in redemption and am keeping my heart open to all possibilities ..
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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:
Dian,
Indeed, I just jumped on here a few days ago...why? Because Wacco is not really my thing, but the farming community in sonoma county is.... and yes, indeed, this thread was specifically brought to my attention as it was terribly one-sided ("All hail to Paula!") and did not include any perspective on negative experiences that so so many HAVE HAD. Perhaps, because like myself, Wacco isn't our usual platform or where I choose to casually spend my time. But this is not a casual matter now, is it? I am not a cohort of anybody's any more than I would assume you are (so please don't use name calling yourself when scolding others for "vitriol" and "shaming"). My guess is that Cinda probably doesn't spend much time on here either, but thought it worth the effort too, especially when what hangs in the balance is NOT Paula, or any middle-managment employee (because in reality, that is all we're talking about- a position- when Ms. Downing's name comes up), but OUR FARMERS!!!
I (nor would I expect anyone else) would never take on your lovely story of how Paula helped your friend, a cancer victim. Nor will I (or expect anyone else to) take on the lovely story of the poor seniors faced with their center closing. These are both lovely stories, which I am sure are true and accurate. And indeed, having a negative account of someone who helps the old, sick, and dying, just doesn't seem right or fair. But what you, and others, are missing is that it is by no means predetermined that, if there was to be a market without Paula, that the farmers, community members, and another socially concerned, community focused, good-hearted manager, would not have done the same thing!! Maybe more, maybe less, who knows.... you, and so many on this thread still seem to be missing the point! The Farmer's Market is about the FARMERS, the same ones who grew the food and gave it to Paula to give to you to give to your friend... the FARMERS, the same ones who pitch tents and stand in the scorching sun or pouring down rain, in between the actual backbreaking work to simply produce the food (which they gave, out of the kindness of their hearts)....the FARMERS who are there when there's not an emergency, so that when there IS, people like you and the senior center have a place to go to find community support. I don't know how loud I can yell this or repeat this... it's about FARMERS!!! Not hired middle-management employees!
I GET that you love Paula because you have had the most wonderful experience with her. Nobody is accusing you of lying about that. But why is it that anything to the contrary falls on deaf ears, is dismissed as lies, rumors, vitriol, etc.? You who go on waxing poetically remind me of the narrow-sighted mothers whose children I use to teach who could NEVER believe that it was their little precious, the fruit of their loins, who was the classroom bully! Nobody wants to think (and most, surely don't want to accept) that their beloved child, the same one who writes sweet loving Mother's Day cards in crayon, the same one who is a "free-spirit who needs to express themselves" (never mind they pounce and cut down the other children's opportunity to express), the same one who is so sweet and tender with the family puppy, is also the one who calls other children names when they don't think anyone can hear, hits the other kids when nobody's looking, hogs all the recess toys and doesn't share nicely. THIS IS HOW YOU SOUND... "Oh no, it couldn't be my little Charlie! If you knew him like me, he would never do that!" And yet, school bullying is real... there are little boys and girls who have been hurt and injured at the words and hands of somebody else's precious little one, apple of their eye, but those injured (like so many who suffer, are injure, or abused) remain silent!
Now for all of you who want to practice your fly-by-night west county psychology on me... no, I was not abused as a child... no, I was not a victim of school yard bullying... no, this is not projection of my own unaddressed wounds...blahblahblah... this is an old fashion METAPHOR... because I'm not sure how else to explain it to you "Team Paula" people!!!
PLEASE fact check my earlier comments! If you need, let me know and I will GLADLY direct you not to just personal testimonies, but cold hard documented facts. But please, consider that this thread, this issue, is not about PAULA! If you're one of those who claim you don't like politics, then please stand up and remind these folks that this is NOT where you repay someone with your allegiance and support because they once fed the sick or supported the elderly. This is not an employment campaign, unless of course you want to give suggestions as to what you'd like to see out of that position, by whomever is in it. What makes you think, so narrowly and shallowly, that Paula is the one-and-only? Paula, believe it or not, was once new and naive. Why are we all so supportive of young, fresh, inspired farmers, but when it comes to the management.... well, you see where I'm going.
Lastly, my tenure on Wacco should hardly be a measure of my, or anyone else's, credibility. Seriously!
Thank you Bret for being even handed. Nobody can deny that Paula has done good things AND that documented evidence exists demonstrating that Paula is not suited to run a farmers market at the Barlow. Being privvy to both, I applaud your candor.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
THANK YOU BRET!! So honest and forthcoming (where you didn't need to be) and so well said!!! You put my post to shame, and I'm ok with that :)
Liz
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Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
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Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
Perhaps I'm missing something, but who among us--those commenting on this topic--have suggested or implied that we treat our farmers like zoo animals? I'm confused. I have said on many occasions that the markets have become, in addition to being our sources for wholesome local foods, our commons, the places where community thrives. I don't feel this is at cross-purposes with a thriving farmers market that allows--more than allows, it encourages and supports--farmers to earn a viable living. We shop, we pay what farmers ask, we tell our friends about our favorite vendors. Where is the problem with this?
What do we have in this time that has replaced the town square, the community plaza? We no longer gather at the post office, as townsfolk once did. We don't gather at monthly dances, as was common a few decades ago. We don't even have Traverso's anymore. It seems that the farmers market has become the public place where we gather, catch up, visit with each other and that seems to benefit us all, the farmers and ranchers, the crafts people, the children who accompany their parents, the shoppers of all ages. Where is the problem?
If this suggests I am from another planet, if this is perceived as an embarrassment, if this is disrespectful of farmers, I don't know what to say other than I don't think we are speaking the same language.
The commons, by definition, is welcoming. It is a place for all of us.
The who is "Caverly." (read earlier post) who is more concerned with maintaining the comingling interweaving circular flows, over the "All mighty dollar..." much like a zoo relies on non-profit donations and contributions to maintain it's wonderful meandering natural landscapes so that for families and visitors may enjoy pleasurable experience of interfacing with the unique and exotic in a beautiful, "natural," harmonious setting.
"I regret that chasing the all-mighty dollaris a reason that we may lose this magnificent quaint style of our gathering." This is the implication that some would rather approach the idea of the farmers market more like one would approach the idea of say... a zoo... than a MARKETPLACE.... where people (like farmers) go to chase the "All Mighty Dollar"... the one that pays their bills. If circular flow brings them more money...great! If lots of parking and a direct route does the trick...great! Whatever will bring more "All Mighty Dollars" to our local farmers. I will grant you, it was an "implication," not a direct statement, to which I applied a SIMILE (I'm a big fan of that literary tool!), in order to perhaps shed a little perspective.
Not saying I'm right, just answering your question... where was it coming from...who among you. (But let's be honest, if you were to ask me, I would say I'm right.)
This thread is really unbearably mean spirited. I personally think that Lizzysweet and Cinda are not following the guidelines of waccobb by continuing like this . Barry?.
Just because you don't like my position does not make it mean-spirited or against any rules. I have not used foul language, I have not used name-calling- although several on here would like to imply or pretend that I have. If saying that Paula is not the right person, please don't let her have anything to do with the farmer's market in Sebastopol any more, my experiences with her have been negative and awful... it doesn't make it a lie, it doesn't make it untrue, it doesn't make it mean-spirited.... it just makes it uncomfortable for those who can't bare to hear anything but "WE LOVE YOU PAULA!"
Correction: I did say "west county hippie lovefest where followers of Pastor Paula go to be baptized." Sorry that sounded so mean. I'll try to refrain from such offensive imagery.
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Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
If it's so easy MAJ, pleeeez, don't leave us in suspense.... show us the documents that prove the inaccuracy of my claims... show the basis of my lies... if you can, because it would be productive. It would blow my whole argument out of the water. Consider me the "anyone (who is) so inclined."
Liz
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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:
I'll post my thoughts tomorrow.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
Barry
Gosh , Liz : Enough all ready { at least for me } .
This is Sebastopol-planet where harmony and respect is freely given .
Paula works hard , is dedicated to the Farmer's Market well-being and makes MAJOR contributions to the wonderfulness of our sweet commonnuity . And she is human . Let us leave it at that , if that is the worst .
Personally , you remind me of the one time some one honked at me in Sebastopol and i wondered ," Why do you
need to do that ? Don't you understand that all is being taken care of ? "
And you still don't realize this thread is not (should not be) about Paula. Once you stop making it about her, then I'll let up. Deal?
And if "all is taken care of," then why are you even participating in this? Unless, of course, you don't actually believe that yourself. Relax, Caverly, the universe will provide.
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Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
Please go easy on the negativity, at least till I weigh in.
i don't know what documented evidence you are referring too. the seb farmers market might have a controversial manager but at least it is alive. i go there for the community aspect and have lots of choice where to buy food. the barlow seems to have gone through a lot of changes before building is completed. given this latest decision i wonder what the scene will be there. more and more it reminds me of the outlet stores in petaluma, a community dead zone with nothing but high end crap.
Not to take any side in this particular dust-up, but just to comment on one comment,, i.e. that a farmers' market is for and about the farmers.
I come from an all-farmer family (both sperm & ovum), and so though I'm damned glad my mom was the first kid off the farm, I do know what that life is like, both pro & con, and have great empathy.
But anyone selling products in this society, whether supplier, distributor, or retailer, had damn well better believe, or at least give the impression of believing, that the marketplace is for and about the customer. Obviously, any outfit, be it CVS or Hard Core Espresso, is doing it to make a profit, but it all has to do with some combination of quality & diversity of product, price, and the atmosphere or ambiance of the space or "commons."
We regularly attend the Sebastopol Market, buy most of our seedlings there when planting time comes, buy some veggies there now and then — limited because of price — and on rare occasions a craft item. So I can't claim that we're doing our sacred duty to support the farmers; frankly, we're supporting the pleasure of our Sunday mornings. From our POV, the Market is doing just fine.
Re. farmers: I think we have a lot in common. I've worked in theatre for 52 years, professionally for the past 40. If we're small-scale, we have huge economic pressures & uncertainties. We're marginal to the mainstream, have minuscule ad budgets, but are competing with elephantine distribution, where publishers are now actually paying chain bookstores to feature their books up front. We're subject to huge competition and the whim of the moment. We work incredibly long, backbreaking hours, but all the public sees is the show on opening night or the pile of beets & chard. Even on our tiny scale, we're subject to intense competition — does my show get reviewed? do you get in the farmers' market? — and to the degree that we actually believe in the quality of our work, that makes for an extreme vulnerability to perceived insult.
I could go on, but I'm both busy & sick, so I won't. I don't know if any of this is useful, but it's just offered into the mix.
Peace & joy—
Conrad
Conrad,
First, thank you for your post! You are absolutely right, any business that wants to stay in business has to take into account quality, diversity, price, atmosphere, and ambiance; the mise-en-scene, if you will. I don't think there is any question among the farmers that they must always take the customer experience into consideration when selling their goods.
However, to use your comparison, I don't think audiences or reviewers attend shows based on who the stage manager or production manager is. Every director hopes for a great one who will do a stellar job, and yes, usually tries to hire them again, but what makes them great at their job is understanding their job; to execute the vision of the director and maintain the integrity of the show... much like a market manager. But to so many within the theater, these job titles (director, casting director, production manager, stage manager, general manager, artistic director, technical director, executive director) are often blurred and confusing... I can't imagine what the layman must think, so I'm afraid your comparison (farming/business is like theater) is perhaps not the best one to use here. Furthermore, to compare a theater review to access to the free market, I'm afraid is also flawed (although I think I know what you're trying to say.)
The vision of a play is created by the director who works in tandem with a creative and inspired production team, including his actors. In the case of farmers markets, the production team would be akin to the Board of Directors. In the case of Santa Rosa Original Certified Farmers Market, that would be the farmers. In the case of Redwood Empire Farmers' Markets, that would be the farmers and community representatives. In the case of Sonoma County Farmers Market Association dba Sebastopol Farmers Market, that would be your stage managers (Paula, Hilda, Erica).... and this is the problem.... when then stage manager starts changing the directors vision through the run of the show.
But instead of continuing to clear up your words, let me clear up mine.... allow the farmers to be their own businessmen, concerned about their own customers. Those who do, will succeed. Those who don't, will fail. Let the free market be the free market, and trust that, as Caverly says, "All will be taken care of." The market manager is there to execute and maintain a vision, not to dictate who has access to the free market and who does not. Let the operating organization create their vision (like any good director) and hire a market manger who will execute and maintain that vision. THAT is the healthy relationship and practice which I would like to see the Barlow, and the Sebastopol community, adopt.
i hope I was able to clear up my perspective. Again, thank you for yours... and your body of creative work.
Liz
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Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:
Sounds like you had your cup of venom this morning "lizzy" and it wasn't "sweet"
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Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
True dat Dorothy... I like my venom like I like my coffee; bitter, not sweet; strong, not weak! I'll grant ya, a straight shot of espresso is not your triple decaf soy latte... but to each their own, eh?
Barry?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:
This has been a very interesting discussion. The original question was "What do you want to see at a Barlow's Farmer's Market?" It was not really about Paula.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
The thread has recently become about Paula. On the whole, given that there appears to be several people who have a negative opinion about how Paula has managed the Farmer's Markets, beside the many people who appreciate her management, it's been handled relatively respectfully, IMO, if not completely so. It's a challenge to voice a negative opinion with respect, though altogether possible. Beyond that, it's a challenge reference in public the specific actions that lead to that opinion, especially if the actions weren't taken in public.
Allow me to add some comments regarding Paula before we move on:
It sounds like much, but not all, of the complaints stem from certain farmer's not being able to participate at the market, for one reason or another. Two things strike me about that: One is that people often get very upset if they don't get what they want and they can easily make it about the person who is making the decision, whether it is warranted or not. I've experienced that plenty in my role as moderator here, some of which you have seen. On the other hand, maybe they are right... and I am an asshole... :wink:
The other thing that comes to mind, is that the Sebastopol Farmer's market appears to be a victim of its own success. if it weren't booming, then people wouldn't be so upset for not be allowed to participate. That's Paula's "fault", too!
Given that the farmer's market play such an important role in the community, I felt that it was appropriate to air the concerns about its management. However, I think we've exhaustively aired the various viewpoints now and clearly some people have one experience and some people have a different experience. And as some of you have pointed out, they both may be right! I don't think there is any point to continue.
In addition, it's my understanding is that Paula is due to retire next year!
As long as The Barlow doesn't start a market on Sunday, the current Sunday market can continue just as is. Yes, I suppose you could say they might have more "competition" if there's another market on Saturday's at the Barlow, but that's no different then another grocery store opening up in town, and given that they are not "open" at the same time, it's not direct competition.
It seems to me that another market on another day, no matter who runs it, is a big win for the community!
So let's put management aside, and get back to talking about the market! Further opinions about days and hours are welcome. ( I would suggest a year round Saturday market at the Barlow, and adding a midweek afternoon/evening one during daylight savings time). Also who should be there or not there? Only organics? What about uncertified organics? Only local (where do you draw the line)? What about service providers? Community groups? Local crafts? Should the vendors be limited as to not have too much repetition?
Have you noticed that the lawn where the Farmers Market is going to be at The Barlow is in now? I think it's going to be sweet! :waccosun:
Thanks Barry! I greatly appreciate your perspective on the challenge of voicing negative feedback. I hope the last thing I have to contribute is this:
Barlow: DO A SUNDAY MARKET!
I see no reason why not! Invite all the farmers who were already planning to move to the Barlow on Sunday, before this whole thing became about Paula. the only reason NOT to do it on Sunday, as far as I can tell, is to... what?... not step on the toes of someone who, like you said Barry, is retiring anyway? I mean, Paula herself was touting how wonderful the new location was going to be for the market, right here on Wacco threads. Now, because Barlow is not interested in Paula, Sundays are off the table. I don't understand this caveat. Sundays are what the customers and farmers are already accustom to, It's what they've already been planning on, and the only other market happening on Sundays (that I'm aware of) is Windsor, which is seasonal. Saturday markets.... well, let's see... there's the Vet's, Wells Fargo, Healdsburg, Petaluma, Napa, Marin. Most of the vendors that sell right now on Sundays also do at least one, if not more, of the already existing Sat. markets... don'tcha think you might be asking a bit much of the local vendors? And again...why for?
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
hiQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
if your questioning is merely rhetorical i understand but if you have any interest in learning about our plans and why we are making certain tough choices please dont hesitate to contact me
bret
barryQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
respectfully i disagree
i thought like you that a sunday market would be a bad idea and told paulas board head that we would choose saturday to avoid conflict. he said please do sunday and not saturday. saturday belongs to santa rosa and sebastopol owns sunday. then i agreed and we plotted how two markets so close to each other could benefit each other and help each other create a powerful sunday destination. that was my last meeting with paulas team and i was awaiting good news about a friendly union of markets on sundays when i discovered paulas board had begun distributing handouts to vendors urging them to confront the barlow. thats when i entered wacco to clarify our position.
i feel a bit betrayed perhaps the kind of betrayal paula felt when the barlow that she spoke out for and championed suddenly brought me in ..and i caused the barlow and barney to turn on her..but of course i feel firmly that paula has given us no other choice as her chickens have come home to roost in my lawyers office..
bret
i emphatically agree with Barry =
The one very-wrong answer is to have a another market at The Barlow on Sundays. Please do not do that!
and there is no wisdom splitting the shopping traffic to two locations at the same time . i think the vendors would really suffer ,btw .
Ooooh SNAP! :nod: :thumbsup:
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Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
You are quite right, Caverly.... (for once we agree! Look at that!) :wink: Your point is made evident by the farmer's market split that happened in the 90's AND the recent split caused by Paula when she decided to open up a new market at a new location, at the same time as the Vet's market (the one that had already been in existence for 40 years)....and on top of it, gave vendors an ultimatum of where they could and could not sell!!!!.... A decision that was recently reviewed and upheld.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
THIS is the reason why vendors are starting to leave Wells Fargo and return to the Vet's!! Because the split DID cause suffering to the vendors! And considering that Redwood Empire Farmers' Markets has not only managed to work peacefully with the county and new management company, has upheld their promises to welcome all local farmers, keep stall fees the same (a mere $26/$16 per day), and is also financially solvent, even WITHOUT the county subsidy that SROFM enjoyed for so so many years, goes to show.... there was never a need to open a competing market at the same time on the same day and forcing vendors to choose!
SROFM is now paying the same amount at Wells Fargo as they would have paid had they played nice with the county and sucked up the fiscal responsibility to begin with.... like the grownups who chose to stay at the Vet's. And to boot, they have less space for vendors because they are enjoying a much smaller footprint, and they get canceled, have to change their market dates, and get shuffled around the back parking lot.
You are totally right.... splitting the market only causes suffering to the vendors! GO SUNDAY AT THE BARLOW!!! FREE THE CAPTIVES FROM WELLS FARGO!!!!
i really do want the lowdown on paula's misdeeds, though not enough to meet privately. i enjoy public bb discussions, transparent process, consensus and democracy. what are you willing to write to everybody? it reads from your next post that you are now in a legal, confidential based, confrontational process with the existing sebastopol farmers market board :.(
i also think it would be an inauspicious start for the barlow to set up a competing market time. try something different. perhaps a few permanent outdoor stalls rented at low cost on a rotating basis with changing road signage. build excitement about the destination rather than dividing community.
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Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
ok heres two key facts that are a matter of undisputed record.
i have a letter drafted and signed by paula that was distributed to her vendors where among other things she calls her foe dan smith newt gingrich and calls dans assistant a henchman. the tone of this later scared all of us here at the barlow.
the lawsuit that paulas board paid out on recently as per the press democrat has in it a defacto mutual restraining order or stay away clause.
if paula or her management team operate at the barlow then on that day each week paulas legal foes will not be allowed to shop or eat or step on to the premises.
this is a deal killer by itself and that means paulas foes cant manage anything here either..they did like a murder suicide with each other when it comes to participating here at the barlow in any future managerial capacity..
everything else i have is amazingly damning too but its just hearsay once i tell you so i will stand by whats indisputable only
bret
I think it's silly to consider Sebastopol and Santa Rosa as serving the same market. Yes, there are a virtual handful of people that live someplace between that might decide to come to Sebastopol for a Saturday market, who would have gone to Santa Rosa, but that seems like a very minor factor when compared to the net total increase in customers by having a Saturday market in Sebastopol.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
it gets “curiouser and curiouser!” :hmmm:Quote:
then i agreed and we plotted how two [sunday] markets so close to each other could benefit each other and help each other create a powerful sunday destination. that was my last meeting with paulas team and i was awaiting good news about a friendly union of markets on sundays when i discovered paulas board had begun distributing handouts to vendors urging them to confront the barlow. thats when i entered wacco to clarify our position.
I'm not quite sure what qualifies your assessment, but if Sebastopol goes Saturday, good luck finding the vendors!
And for the record, I've been asked to tone it down a bit. People can accuse me of vitriol and lying without any proof, exercise their own condescension veiled in metaphysics, but my tone needs must be toned down... I agree, it gets "curiouser and curiouser! :hmmm:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Let me help you, Bret!
May 21, 2009
Santa Rosa Board of Directors
Dear Santa Rosa Board of Directors
It is unfortunate that I have to write this letter, but I believe it is necessary for the Board as well as the association to know this. On Wednesday, May 20, 2009 about 8:00 a.m., I was approached by the market manager, Paula Downing, in a very unprofessional and inappropriate manner.
My family has farmed...for almost 25 years. We have been member of the Santa Rosa Farmer's Market for 20 years. We sold our produce at over 20 different farmers' markets throughout the years, and never have we encountered such hostility.
As I was setting up, Paula asked me if I wanted to talk about what was going on with me. I had no idea what she was referring to. I answered, "no." Paula then told me that she had been "sensing" some negative feelings from me and that she wanted me to tell her what my problem was. Not knowing what she was alluding to, I said I had nothing to say to her.
Paula proceeded to tell me that she had lots of problems and that she did not need any more. She stated that if she wanted to, she could "kick me out of Sebastopol Farmers' Market" and that she never had to let me in. She repeated that if I was going to cause more problems, she would just kick me out.
I asked her if she was threatening me. She answered, "yes."
Believing that I had in some way misunderstood her, I asked her again, "are you threatening me?" Again, she said "yes" and repeated that she never had to let me into the Sebastopol Market, and could have me "out" if she wanted.
I was shocked and appalled that at 8:00 a.m.- the beginning of a business day at the market- at my place of work, Paula was threatening me to have me kicked out of another market because she was "sensing" some negative feelings from me.
I asked her again if she was threatening me. Again she answered yes. I let Paula know that she had misinterpreted my "feelings" because I had no idea what she was referring to, as I had neither said nor done anything to her. Paula replied, "okay" and left my table.
I was very upset that a manager would threaten me at my place of work. I left my booth to make a phone call and walked to the restroom. As I exited the restroom I found myself face to face with Paula, who again told me, "we need to talk." I told her repeatedly that I was on the phone and did not wish to speak to her.
She then confronted me in the parking lot and said she was sorry if she misunderstood my feelings but we needed to talk. I told her I did not wish to speak to her and I asked her to please leave me alone. Paula said we needed to talk and asked me if I "did not believe in forgiveness."
I told Paula again to please leave me alone, and that I did not want to speak to her. I informed her that I believed she had acted in a very inappropriate and unprofessional way and that she had upset me and I did not want to speak to her until I had collected my thoughts. She finally left, but not before telling me that she would later call me so that we could talk.
My immediate thought was to just let this incident pass, however, after consulting with family (we're a family business), I realized that the market manager's behavior was without a doubt uncalled for, inappropriate, and a clear threat to our small business.
Though the actual threat to kick us out of the Sebastopol Market has nothing to do with the Santa Rosa Association, (I will address the matter with the Sebastopol Farmers' Market Board of Directors); the threat was made at the Santa Rosa Farmers' Market, by its manager, during business hours.
I am not willing to accept Paula's behavior and the threat she made for no just cause.
As a member of the association, and as a vendor, I expect the board of directors to respond promptly. The market manager is a representative of the association. i would like a guarantee that this type of unprofessional behavior will not be tolerated, nor repeated. More importantly, I would like some assurance that Paula will not carry out her threat.
Regards,
(I leave this anonymous to protect the innocent, however, this letter IS a matter of public record... I can offer more if you like. It only gets worse.)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
I don't know who lizzysweet is or what her agenda is, but this "ooh snap" is yet another nasty tidbit that we could do without.
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Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
Here is a piece of INFORMATION about how the farmers market works, at least under Paula Downing. Yes there is a wait list, but the job of "curating" the market involves trying to keep a balance of farmers who are selling the same and different products. If someone's name comes up and that farmer is selling the same thing that a number of other farmers are selling and therefore the VERY small profit margin of the farmers who are already there is going to be made even slimmer, Paula will move down the list to someone else who is selling something different.
some of us have been advocating for a community forum about this issue so that the public will know the truth of how the market works and what is the job of the market manager before they take strong positions on either side.
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
you've got to be kidding. Some here may dispute my judgement over what's mean-spirited, but come on - read their posts for what they say. How on earth can they make their criticism in any more straight-forward a way without diluting what they are trying to get across?? Sometimes the principle of "don't say anything if you can't say something nice" can't be applied.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
maybe there was a reason.. how aware were you of your surroundings? Some people don't live in a world where all is being taken care of, especially if you have a prosaic rather than cosmic definition of "all".Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by caverly:
sorry, this -is- bordering into mean-spirited!!
Bret,
I am sad that you ended up in the middle of this mess. I started to read the thread because I was interested in the possibility of actually going to a Farmer's Market. The one in Seb is too crowded for me so I have been watching to see if maybe the Barlow would be a more calm, more open place for me to go.
Watching the stuff hit the fan has been interesting and sad though. I don't know Paula. I have no horse in this race. I do know however how crazy making it is to get hit by someone like this who presents as "such a nice person" that when you tell your story people think you are the one who is nuts and has a vendetta because how on earth could that possibly be true? Vilifying the people with negative experiences doesn't help anyone. And vilifying people for not giving details when there are legal issues involved is not helpful either. I can see you are trying to remain in integrity in this situation and so far you are holding your own.
As for your original issue, I don't have a preference on a day, but obviously a weekend day and/or a weekday afternoon/evening would be good for many. I look forward to seeing your site develop.
Jessica
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Posted in reply to the post by bret martin:
thanks, Conrad - but it's also true that the community benefits from both your work and that of the farmers, so we do have a bit of an obligation to support what we'd like to see continue.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:
jessicaQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:
you are the first person here to choke me up.
its as if you peeked into my heart
you are a thanksgiving blessing
thank you
bret
Jessica,Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:
As farmers markets have grown in popularity, they have indeed become more crowded. One way to get around this is to come as early as possible. Although the Sebastopol market officially opens at 10 a.m., farmers are allowed to begin selling once they are set up. They don't have to wait for a bell, as is the policy at some markets. I've found that I can get almost everything I need by 9:30 to 9:45, without crowds.
This is true of most markets--the earlier you arrive, the less crowded a market will be--and the same applies to the end of a market. They are generally not crowded during the last 30 minutes or so, though you risk missing out on a lot of things.
I'd like to contribute a bit of accuracy here. Paula Downing did not decide to open a new market at a new location. In February of 2012, the county rented the space out from under the existing farmers market to a new entity while they were in rent negotiations with the existing market. The county offered it to the new entity at a price lower than they were asked the existing market to pay. Had they asked the full amount, it would have triggered a RFP (request for proposal), which is triggered at $50,000.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by lizzysweet:
The original market, founded in 1967, had two options: Disband or find a new location. The new location was chosen by a committee appointed by the board of directors.
Further, the rule that vendors could not sell at simultaneous markets within something like a 10-mile radius was adopted by the members of the market, not by Paula Downing.
All of this is a matter of public record.
As far as mutual restraining orders go, there is a great deal of misinformation circulating. There is no restraining order. Two individuals agreed not to attend the Santa Rosa Original Certified Farmers Market as customers for a period of five years. This was requested by the market board because vendors and customers had been harassed by these individuals. The individuals then requested that the board members of the original market make the same agreement, that they would not attend the new market as customers for a period of five years. They agreed. This is now in effect. Any vendor, to my knowledge, is free to attend either market, upon acceptance of their application by that market.
The lawsuit was settled with a finding of no wrong doing by anyone connected to the Santa Rosa Original Farmers Market or the Sebastopol farmers market or the two individuals who initiated the law suit.
Paula Downing announced her intention to resign as manager of the Santa Rosa Market in either late 2011 or early 2012. She stayed to help facilitate the move and train the new manager, Jaime Smedes, who is now at the helm, working at the direction of the board.
To get to the true point of this thread, I'd like to suggest an afternoon/evening market. I'd say Friday but that would mean competing for both vendors and customers with the popular Occidental market from June through October.
So what about Thursday? Thursdays in the town plaza used to be very popular, so there is a tradition of getting people out on a Thursday evening.
I think the Barlow needs to answer two questions: What best serves the community and how can the Barlow best be a part of the market. An evening market serves people heading home from work, many of whom can't make it to morning/weekend markets.
If there are businesses that will be open in the evening, then an evening market makes even more sense. Create somewhere for people to hang out, shop, connect, enjoy a nibble or sip and then walk back to town, to go out to dinner or home to cook.
I think 4:30 to 7:00 or 7:30 p.m. on a Thursday evening would be great for this town.