Efren Carrillo--Friend of the 1%?

This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

Neil

I took it as a serious invitation when I was invited...Without more details, I would be making assumptions..What I do know is Efren Carillo is attending functions all over the county and is in touch and personal with many people...which I guess could include wealthy people who also appreciate these qualities..I was impressed when I first met him before last election..He is compassionate , involved and I believe genuine and sincere..I have been impressed with his dedication and passion once he was elected..Do we know anything about the hosts of this fundraiser..? maybe we should go and find out...

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by neil:

This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

Neil

---

Good Morning:

I'd like to second the previous poster. I think he is attending fundraising events all over the county. I can't see anything wrong with this one as it is just one of many. It would be one thing if Carillo had isolated himself and only communicated with the 1% (though I have to say that $50 for attending a fundraising does not rise to the level that the 1% dwell in). But that is not my observation. I have been impressed with Carillo's dedication, his concern for the disadvantaged, his accessibility, and just plain hard work. I voted for him in the last election and plan to do so this time as well.


Best wishes

Hi Rebeka,

I think you are right--it is a serious invitation from Efren Carrillo, to a serious campaign event. I'm not assuming that the hosts of the fundraiser are bad people just because they live where they do or have what they have, or that Carrillo is a bad person for doing a campaign thing at their house. My concern is with the disparity of wealth, which is increasing, and with the disproportionate political influence and control that comes with having so much wealth.

I do not think it is a law of nature that a few people are rich and live "the beautiful life," while many more have to work hard to create the wealth yet are poor and struggle to get by. It is a question of social organization and policy. If there were fairness--anything approaching fairness--in the laws governing economic relations (property, investment, business, commerce, taxation), there wouldn't be such wealth disparities or the corresponding imbalance in political influence.

For me the question is not "is Carrillo a nice guy?" Maybe he is extremely personable. Fine. I'm much more concerned about whose interests he serves. Whatever the personal qualities and attributes of the Vicini family hosting the event, for me it is an obscenity that some live in luxury while others sleep on cardboard or under tarps along the tracks. No amount of personal charm on Efren's part overcomes the fact that the people who slave under the hot sun in the chemical-laden vinyards to grow the grapes cannot afford to buy and drink the wine. Nor can they afford to attend Carrillo's event Sunday, which is located in the middle of one of the larger vinyards in the area.

Neil

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rebekahlgraham:

I took it as a serious invitation when I was invited...Without more details, I would be making assumptions..What I do know is Efren Carillo is attending functions all over the county and is in touch and personal with many people...which I guess could include wealthy people who also appreciate these qualities..I was impressed when I first met him before last election..He is compassionate , involved and I believe genuine and sincere..I have been impressed with his dedication and passion once he was elected..Do we know anything about the hosts of this fundraiser..? maybe we should go and find out...

---

Last year his fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery. It'd be interesting to see the guest list. Recently I recieved aa Carillo mailer stating his top priority to be "Sonoma County roads". Wonder if Dutro has the contract yet.

How about the predatory lending practice which is still being commited by a local lender from Graton,Martin Gavriloff. He sold our farm and home illegally in Freestone.I spoke about it at one of the town hall meetings in Sebastopol before the last election. Effren told me he would contact me and help me resolve our devastating experience.I never heard from him again. We are not the only victims of this predatory lenders' scams,yet Effren allows it to happen.Apparently he used to be a loan broker.Justice needs to be served for us,my children were to inherit this property.Not to forget the wonderful childrens' day camp which was to open there.

The fund raiser this Sunday is a fund raiser for the Preservation ranch. Good bye trees. The 1% wins again.

If you want four more years of a corrupt Supervisor, than vote for Carrillo. If you have a business and want to distroy the environment, than vote for Carrillo. If you have money to waste, then vote for Carrillo. If you voted for Carrillo, than you got what you have paid for, a bad politician.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by eeeeeeow:

Last year his fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery. It'd be interesting to see the guest list. Recently I recieved aa Carillo mailer stating his top priority to be "Sonoma County roads". Wonder if Dutro has the contract yet.

---

Is that why Mirabel Road is now being fixed one week before elections or is it because Ernie is running?
Carole Domeikis, a 30 year forestville home owner.

I went to check our mail box the other day ,and it was filled up with Efren Carrillos' trash ads to vote for him,honestly I wouldn't vote for him if you paid me! And all the west county roads are in poor condition still .If Efren Carrillo is responsible for filling in ANY pot holes theyr'e only on the roads he travels on.......which is not a regular road the general public travels. I think everyone who has had damage done to their cars and trucks due to all the poorly maintained roads should send Efren their repair bills,how about filing small claims actions as well.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by advocarole:

Is that why Mirabel Road is now being fixed one week before elections or is it because Ernie is running?
Carole Domeikis, a 30 year forestville home owner.

---

RETURN TO SENDER, SEND cARRILLO'S TRASH BACK.

I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.

I'm going to vote for Ernie, but I think Efren's done a decent job. The biggest reason that I'm not going to vote for him is his Dutra vote. He said it was principled, from an holistic environmental point of view (vs. trucking in the asphalt). Other's, including me, suspect some financial support may have played role in swaying his vote. In either case, this puts some distance between his position and that of the progressive community. I also note that there have been many times he voted consistent with our values.

Given how progressive and environmentally conscious our district is, we deserve to be represented by someone who is as passionate about protecting our environment as we are. I think Ernie fits that bill. OTOH, Efren would be a big upgrade as compared to some other of the county Supes.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck:

RETURN TO SENDER, SEND cARRILLO'S TRASH BACK.

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.

---

How much respect should be given to someone who promises to listen to the West County residents, work hard for them, then goes and does nothing of the sort?

Can you name one time where big business didn't get the vote from Carrillo, and where the environmental concerns won out over big business? I won't hold my breath waiting.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Imagery:

Can you name one time where big business didn't get the vote from Carrillo, and where the environmental concerns won out over big business? I won't hold my breath waiting.

---

Here's 3 for you:
- his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
- his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
- his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry

Three for who?

Three things that have no relevance to environmental issues in the fifth district for the next four years. Ask your Mr. Carrillo about "The Preservation Ranch",The Best Family Winery, and the Hobbs-Jenkel travesty.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's 3 for you:
- his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
- his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
- his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry

---

I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'd to see a little more respect shown to our current county supervisor, even if you disagree with some of his decisions. On the other hand you are welcome to enumerate specific reasons why you think someone else would be better.

I'm going to vote for Ernie, but I think Efren's done a decent job. The biggest reason that I'm not going to vote for him is his Dutra vote. He said it was principled, from an holistic environmental point of view (vs. trucking in the asphalt). Other's, including me, suspect some financial support may have played role in swaying his vote. In either case, this puts some distance between his position and that of the progressive community. I also note that there have been many times he voted consistent with our values.

Given how progressive and environmentally conscious our district is, we deserve to be represented by someone who is as passionate about protecting our environment as we are. I think Ernie fits that bill. OTOH, Efren would be a big upgrade as compared to some other of the county Supes.

---

Dear Neil,

Thank you for your post. What I find troublesome is Efren Carrillo's secretiveness on county issues - his website is VOID of any real information. Just his life story. Apparently his claim to fame is having grown up in a handout house and that this made him who he is: Someone who likes taking handouts.

At the supervisor forums, he refused to answer direct questions. Very evasive. He'd make a great poker player. Reminds me of: "If you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything."

It's a no brainer to vote for Ernie Carpenter - he stands by his word and lives by his principles amongst us Hobbits out here in West County w/ our wells, septic tanks, no sidewalks.....

Take good care, Larysa

The biggest controversial environmental vote was about the Dutra asphalt plant, which he supported and that's the prime reason I can't support him.

His refusal to take a stand on Preservation ranch, which is quite suspicious, and is another reason I can't support him

I didn't have a problem with the Best Family Winery, so I didn't have a problem for his support of it. I can understand the NIMBY concerns of the neighbors.

I would also liked to have seen him come out against Hobbs early on, instead of way late. I believe that debacle was nominally legal, though there should be stronger laws to prevent such rapes of both the land and people. Preventing forest conversion is one of Ernie's key issues and one of the reasons I support him.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Damien:

Three for who?

Three things that have no relevance to environmental issues in the fifth district for the next four years. Ask your Mr. Carrillo about "The Preservation Ranch",The Best Family Winery, and the Hobbs-Jenkel travesty.

---

The message I get from this discussion as well as many others is this: Without publicly funded elections, we will continue to see good people go into politics with the best of intentions only to succumb to the imperatives of raising money to stay in office.

It's why Doris Haddock in 1999, at the age of 88, walked 3200 miles across the country to advocate for campaign finance reform. She understood that big money in politics is the fundamental evil, the cancer at the heart of the system.

So my sympathies to Mr. Carrillo, and to Barack Obama, and all the other idealistic people who feel they have to betray their principles to stay in the game. But my support and vote will go to those courageous fighters who truly represent my values—the Ralph Naders and Jill Steins and Norman Solomons of this world.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's 3 for you:
- his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
- his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
- his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry

---

I went before Carrillo and pleaded to save my home from Mesa Distribution extending their days of operation. For four years I have fought the county and the courts because Mesa distribution built a massive 155,000 square foot concrete building within 125 feet of my home. All night long my family is impacted with the sound of rigs traveling along the side of my home.. From Sunday night until Friday evening the sound of night time operations of this company continues to destroy our right to sleep peacefully. While pleading to the supervisors not to extend Mesas' days of operation, Carillo was totally distracted while playing with his ipod and showed no concern or respect for me or my neighors. He is arrogant and will continue to support large business owners over the people that he represents. If I sound disrespectful and harsh at times, it is because I feel our county needs individuals that care for the public at large, Carrillo is NOT THAT PERSON. We need to vote him out of office this year before he can distroy another families home.

Mesa's attorney's are Cohen, Fitzpatrick, and Kenworthy, the same attorneys that have continued to contribute to Carrillos' campaign for relection.
How can you make a fair decision when you hands are tied by those who contribute to your campaign? Carrillo is corrupt, and not a friend to the people.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's 3 for you:
- his strong support for a public power agency - the kind that PG&E has tried to prevent
- his strong support for a moratorium on smart meters - again in opposition to PG&E
- his opposition to the Roblar Road quarry

---

Has PG&E given his campaign any 'contributions' to keep him in office?
Has any of this come up for legislative review and ruling on these subjects, or is this some 'feel good' politics that don't really matter?

go ahead and vote for Ralph and when Romney takes office remember you had a choice. You chose to lose.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by peggykarp:

The message I get from this discussion as well as many others is this: Without publicly funded elections, we will continue to see good people go into politics with the best of intentions only to succumb to the imperatives of raising money to stay in office.

It's why Doris Haddock in 1999, at the age of 88, walked 3200 miles across the country to advocate for campaign finance reform. She understood that big money in politics is the fundamental evil, the cancer at the heart of the system.

So my sympathies to Mr. Carrillo, and to Barack Obama, and all the other idealistic people who feel they have to betray their principles to stay in the game. But my support and vote will go to those courageous fighters who truly represent my values—the Ralph Naders and Jill Steins and Norman Solomons of this world.

---

I understand Efren has made a few mistakes in his first term and he is paying for them now in this election. Witness Ernie Carpenter's surprise entrance into the campaign. This smacks of opportunism and I bet is motivated by 69 year old Ernie's desire to pump up his pension as much as anything else for a single 4 year term. Since leaving office he has had a few gigs as a paid special interest shill, now he wants to un-retire. I am not impressed.

From where I sit I have seen a hard working, bright young supervisor. He regularly attends Monte Rio's wastewater committee meetings, dealing with the thankless task of looking into a sewer or alternative solution to a big problem on the lower river. He has helped our little hamlet of Villa Grand acquire and restore our beach with the Open Space district. He is all over the place in west county for all four years, not just at election time. I find him accessible, reasonable, diligent. I feared he would be the supervisor from Roseland but this has not turned out to be the case. Efren has tried hard to be our man on the Board and this is a difficult job walking that political tightrope 24/7. He deserves re-election.

Ernie does seem like a bit of a whore - not that he doesn't appeal to some individuals.

It seems like he's courting the environmental vote, taking the opposite stance on issues Efren is criticized on, such as Dutra & Best... although his past actions have not always been supportive of environmental concerns.

He's a bit of a tainted candidate, an opportunist, like may politicians, is he not?

Can anyone offer any defense of him?

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by maryr45:

I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.

---

Let's take the Dutro plant, for instance: Millions of tax dollars that were spent on reinvigorating Schollenberger park have been squandered by vote for Dutro to proceed. The park, along with three schools, will be subjected to pollutants emitted by the Dutro plant. A walk in the park will be at your own risk. That safe haven is now a health issue. Particularly since the Dutros have been fined time and time again for environmental and business related violations. This may sound rote, but Carrillo is in big business and developers' back pocket. Many issues re: developement will be decided over the next few years and I, for one would not like to see Sonoma County paved over. Especially with Dutro getting the contract! pLease excuse any typos.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by garyahighland:

go ahead and vote for Ralph and when Romney takes office remember you had a choice. You chose to lose.

---

I think I understand where you're coming from, and admit it's a valid consideration. Yet, I wonder when we will vote for someone we'd like to see in office, rather than against someone we don't. If a significant number voted for a third party who lost and took enough votes to hand the election to, say, Romney, would the subsequent unfolding (unraveling?) of events under his administration be enough to stir the electorate into paying more attention and demanding constructive change in the way we elect people to office? With apologies to the feathered, a "lesser of two evils" method of choosing is for the birds.

from today's Press Democrat:

Carpenter's conversion

EDITOR: The letter from Bob Whitney (“Forest conversions, Wednesday) acting as apologist for Ernie Carpenter's flip-flop on timber-to-vineyard conversions is laughable. It reads like spin written by Dick Cheney, master of political deception. Carpenter and Whitney are engaged in flagrant revisionist history.

Articles appeared in The Press Democrat in May and June 1999 and can be found in paper's online archives. Anyone who can read will reach the unavoidable conclusion that Carpenter was a hack for Rich Padula's 1999 proposal to convert 10,000 acres of coastal forest to vineyard in Sonoma and Mendocino counties. Go see for yourself.
Here's a sample from a May 22, 1999 article (“Plan calls for 10,000 acres of grapes”), “The proposed 10,000 acres of vineyards would dwarf most grape planting projects on the North Coast” and Carpenter “has been hired as a consultant to the project.”

Also see Chris Coursey's June 28, 1999 column, which says “Carpenter acknowledges that Padula, a Willits lumberman, hired him in part to trade on my name and my good reputation — or what's left of it.” Your reputation Ernie? Not so good.

RICHARD JOHNSON
Sebastopol

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

Ernie does seem like a bit of a whore - not that he doesn't appeal to some individuals.

It seems like he's courting the environmental vote, taking the opposite stance on issues Efren is criticized on, such as Dutra & Best... although his past actions have not always been supportive of environmental concerns.

He's a bit of a tainted candidate, an opportunist, like may politicians, is he not?

Can anyone offer any defense of him?

---

Not only does this location speak eloquently as to Carrillo's true priotities, it demonstrates that having more money than God need not accompany having any aesthetic sensibility at all.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by neil:

This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.

Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!

Most of us never get to see the inside of such a place, let alone live there. So if you have the requested 50 buck$ to attend, or if you don't mind seeming to be too poor but you want to go anyway, you can make your way there and maybe rub shoulders, eat, drink, pretend..... or maybe they won't even let you in.

You can view this 61 acre $14 million property at this high-end real estate website, listed as "Vine Hill Ranch" about half way down the page. I recommend taking the virtual tour!

https://www.spanekre.com/html/network/intro.html

I see these images and I think about the immigrant farm workers and other laborers who create such wealth. I think about what their life is like and choke on the contrast.

What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth? Should we go and ask him Sunday? Maybe pocket some yummy goodies and distribute them to their rightful owners in the poor Latino neighborhoods of Santa Rosa? Hmmm....

Neil

---

My answer to your question is "no."

Third parties will play a important role for good in this country only when the electoral rules are changed. Until then under current conditions they are a standing threat to any hope at all. There is a solution that would empower third parties in a good way, and no third party to my knowledge has indicated any interest in it at all.

Our plurality system guarantees that voting for a third party assists the main party you dislike most. If we had majority elections that would no longer be the case because if no one received a majority some kind of run off, like an instant run off, would take place. Greens and others would have a real chance to make a difference. Even win.

If third parties campaigned for a state initiative requiring majority vote elections I would respect them as sincere advocates for improving California and the country. Until they do I consider them vanity parties serving their leaders' egos and feelings of self-righteousness on the part of their supporters, all without doing anything constructive to help anyone.

I am not defending the main parties. I am saying politics is the art of the possible, and when all we have is a choice between a thief and an ax murderer, I'm voting for the thief rather than throwing my vote away because I will not vote for a crook, thereby increasing the probability the ax murderer will be elected. Many many thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of dead Iraqis testify mutely to the worse than foolishness of letting personal self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of purity override good sense when voting. Our Supreme Court is the travesty it is mostly because of Republican appointees. Bush made the key appointees. That is yet another testimony to the irresponsible imbecility of those who voted for Nader in places where the election could have gone either way- like Florida. It has only gotten worse since then.

I have argued for years for third parties to campaign for majority vote elections which would enable them to actually matter, and for the most part all I have ever heard from them is crickets... I'd contribute $1000 to an initiative on the subject that had credible backing organizationally. And I am very very far from wealthy.

Gus

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Karl Frederick:

I think I understand where you're coming from, and admit it's a valid consideration. Yet, I wonder when we will vote for someone we'd like to see in office, rather than against someone we don't. If a significant number voted for a third party who lost and took enough votes to hand the election to, say, Romney, would the subsequent unfolding (unraveling?) of events under his administration be enough to stir the electorate into paying more attention and demanding constructive change in the way we elect people to office? With apologies to the feathered, a "lesser of two evils" method of choosing is for the birds.

---

I'm impressed that you mention no concrete issues where Carrillo has taken a good stand and just attack his opponent.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by maryr45:

I come by once in a while to see what's up and it's always the few miscreants bashing the hardest working Supervisor the Fifth District has ever had, Efren Carrillo.

Ernie's a blow hard, he's Ratzo Rizzo pounding on the hood of the taxi saying, "HEY, Look at ME!" He dropped the ball his last years in office, burned out and didn't do dodoo.

Meanwhile Ernie's been a bag man for timber interests and garbage companies selling his services to the highest bidder (provided they wear protection I would assume).

This is Ernie's last hurrah, I'll be glad to see the 14 commentators here take notice when Efren get's over 50% and it's all over.

---

>>>This Sunday from 5-7 pm there is a fundraising event for Efren Carrillo at 5626 Vine Hill Road, Sebastopol.
Hey, I thought, that's my neck of the woods! So I googled the address...whoa! Fancy place!
...What is Efren telling us by saddling up to such wealth?

Not to express support for Carrillo here, but just to comment on the point made: To denigrate a candidate because he's trying to raise money from rich people seems nonsense, IMHO. It's a great idea to limit yourself to taking small contributions, but sorry, we probably won't even hear about your candidacy or your virtue. People try to do fundraisers in gorgeous houses because more people are likely to want to see that gorgeous house than somebody's two-bedroom apartment, and if admission is only $50 (not a huge contribution by current standards) you need a lot of people and a lot of good munchies.

When our theatre was back east, we were in constant fundraising mode, and I was very happy to have a couple of board members who'd give $5,000 and throw parties for us, despite the fact that we were on different sides of the political spectrum. It allowed us to do a lot of good work. When we started feeling that support might disappear if we continued doing the work we were doing, well, we left.

Indeed, Carrillo should be judged by his votes & his actions, but I think it's unrealistic to diss someone for "saddling up to wealth." That's part of the game, and I could wish it were otherwise, but it won't be, ever.

-Conrad

A quick comment on 3rd parties. I've voted for third parties in the past and don't consider the votes wasted. But I have to admit that I've only voted for 3rd parties when I considered the election an easy call. And I had nearly equally negative views regarding both major party candidates. Still, if I had been in a toss-up state on some of those votes, I sense that I likely would not have voted 3rd party. In other words, I suspect that my voting for a 3rd party was a kind of luxury and not generally applicable. But Gus's suggestion would change that dynamic, I suspect. Gus's suggestion regarding ballot reform is, I think, a good one. I'm surprised 3rd parties haven't seen it as significant.

Jim

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Gus diZerega:

My answer to your question is "no."

Third parties will play a important role for good in this country only when the electoral rules are changed. Until then under current conditions they are a standing threat to any hope at all. There is a solution that would empower third parties in a good way, and no third party to my knowledge has indicated any interest in it at all.

Our plurality system guarantees that voting for a third party assists the main party you dislike most. If we had majority elections that would no longer be the case because if no one received a majority some kind of run off, like an instant run off, would take place. Greens and others would have a real chance to make a difference. Even win.

If third parties campaigned for a state initiative requiring majority vote elections I would respect them as sincere advocates for improving California and the country. Until they do I consider them vanity parties serving their leaders' egos and feelings of self-righteousness on the part of their supporters, all without doing anything constructive to help anyone.

I am not defending the main parties. I am saying politics is the art of the possible, and when all we have is a choice between a thief and an ax murderer, I'm voting for the thief rather than throwing my vote away because I will not vote for a crook, thereby increasing the probability the ax murderer will be elected. Many many thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of dead Iraqis testify mutely to the worse than foolishness of letting personal self-righteousness and a misplaced sense of purity override good sense when voting. Our Supreme Court is the travesty it is mostly because of Republican appointees. Bush made the key appointees. That is yet another testimony to the irresponsible imbecility of those who voted for Nader in places where the election could have gone either way- like Florida. It has only gotten worse since then.

I have argued for years for third parties to campaign for majority vote elections which would enable them to actually matter, and for the most part all I have ever heard from them is crickets... I'd contribute $1000 to an initiative on the subject that had credible backing organizationally. And I am very very far from wealthy.

Gus

---

Gus, Jim,

The Green Party of the U.S.A. has advocated and worked for Electoral Law Reform in terms of IRV and other changes that would make Third Party efforts more likely to bear electoral victory fruit. For decades.

In some California counties, the Registrar has conducted GP elections for the County Council (required by current state electoral law in order to have ballot status) using IRV.

Just because it is not well publicized, so you don't know about it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

The ways in which Third Parties are locked out, are not just due to current election law, there is also a concerted effort by the two established parties and the media, to downplay, exclude, dismiss and demonize Third Party efforts. The fruit of those efforts, have been demonstrated in this thread, and are generally held as "common sense".

I'm referring to the whole mythology of, "spoiled, wasted votes", "voting alternative party is a vote for the greater of two evils", and the rest.

For instance, it is still a generally held view that Nader ruined it for Gore in Florida in 2000. A demonstrably false claim, as the following linked article shows.

Not that the DP leaders in the DLC (now disbanded because they had completely taken over the DP and no longer needed the organization) and the DNC, didn't know that when they made up the lie and promoted it to deflect blame from their campaign errors. "A lie, told often enough, becomes the truth."

https://www.disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election

https://www.gp.org/committees/platfo...acy.php#316100

https://www.cagreens.org/content/true-democracy

https://www.cagreens.org/platform/democracy

The vineyard scenario across the state has changed so rapdily in ten years. With the threat to not only natural habitat and the environment, but of creating a monoculture within Sonoma County, I can certainly allow ANYONE to have a change of heart. Mr. Carrillo and crew have tried to use the past to render useless Mr. Carpenter's current stand on issues that have been brought to the fore by Mr. Carrillo's developement friendly votes. How about Mr. Carrillo? I bet he wouldn't want anyone to know his thought patterns from ten years ago.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by eeeeeeow:

The vineyard scenario across the state has changed so rapdily in ten years. With the threat to not only natural habitat and the environment, but of creating a monoculture within Sonoma County, I can certainly allow ANYONE to have a change of heart. Mr. Carrillo and crew have tried to use the past to render useless Mr. Carpenter's current stand on issues that have been brought to the fore by Mr. Carrillo's developement friendly votes. How about Mr. Carrillo? I bet he wouldn't want anyone to know his thought patterns from ten years ago.

---

I imagine it would be fine for anyone to know his thought process from 10 years ago, when he was a student at UC Berkeley, the first in his family to graduate from High School, and working toward a degree in Environmental Economics and Policy - yes, I imagine that any thought bubbles from that time would be completely acceptable.

What was the other guy doing at this time? Taking checks from a forest to vineyard conversion developer.

FACTS

2-3 questions:

b: How did we get from paid consultant to hack exactly? a: consulting on what aspect of the project?

Can we have a link to the chris coursey piece? I can't find anything older than 01 on the site. I have no idea who is saying "my name and my good reputation" the way this is structured. thanks- Cal

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by maryr45:

from today's Press Democrat:

Carpenter's conversion

EDITOR: The letter from Bob Whitney (“Forest conversions, Wednesday) acting as apologist for Ernie Carpenter's flip-flop on timber-to-vineyard conversions is laughable. It reads like spin written by Dick Cheney, master of political deception. Carpenter and Whitney are engaged in flagrant revisionist history.

Articles appeared in The Press Democrat in May and June 1999 and can be found in paper's online archives. Anyone who can read will reach the unavoidable conclusion that Carpenter was a hack for Rich Padula's 1999 proposal to convert 10,000 acres of coastal forest to vineyard in Sonoma and Mendocino counties. Go see for yourself.
Here's a sample from a May 22, 1999 article (“Plan calls for 10,000 acres of grapes”), “The proposed 10,000 acres of vineyards would dwarf most grape planting projects on the North Coast” and Carpenter “has been hired as a consultant to the project.”

Also see Chris Coursey's June 28, 1999 column, which says “Carpenter acknowledges that Padula, a Willits lumberman, hired him in part to trade on my name and my good reputation — or what's left of it.” Your reputation Ernie? Not so good.

RICHARD JOHNSON
Sebastopol

---

I agree with your point Conrad, to an extent. Modern political campaigns are EXPENSIVE! Candidates get money wherever they find it. They get other kinds of support, too, like use of a luxury home amidst the vineyards for an afternoon fundraiser.

I assume that when someone gives a lot of money or other support to a candidate, they expect that candidate to advance their interests if elected. The same would apply for any candidate, not just Carrillo. For example, when Wall Street pours in tens or hundreds of millions of (our stolen) dollars into Obama's and Romney's campaigns this year, they are hedging their bets. Whoever is elected will serve the interests of big finance.

In my opinion, it is indicative of something if the wine industry and other titans of Sonoma County business are throwing their weight behind Carrillo. Do they similarly support Jacobi and Carpenter? If so, then we should notice that, too. Saddling up to wealth has implications, as you found when you were back east.

Neil

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:

>>>

Not to express support for Carrillo here, but just to comment on the point made: To denigrate a candidate because he's trying to raise money from rich people seems nonsense, IMHO. It's a great idea to limit yourself to taking small contributions, but sorry, we probably won't even hear about your candidacy or your virtue. People try to do fundraisers in gorgeous houses because more people are likely to want to see that gorgeous house than somebody's two-bedroom apartment, and if admission is only $50 (not a huge contribution by current standards) you need a lot of people and a lot of good munchies.

When our theatre was back east, we were in constant fundraising mode, and I was very happy to have a couple of board members who'd give $5,000 and throw parties for us, despite the fact that we were on different sides of the political spectrum. It allowed us to do a lot of good work. When we started feeling that support might disappear if we continued doing the work we were doing, well, we left.

Indeed, Carrillo should be judged by his votes & his actions, but I think it's unrealistic to diss someone for "saddling up to wealth." That's part of the game, and I could wish it were otherwise, but it won't be, ever.

-Conrad

---

People like Efren do lots of things to "look good"; all the while they have been primed to do the bidding of the 1% of this county and Wall Street. I coined the term "Faux Green" to express how this applies in one sector.

I have seen Ernie Carpenter stand up to some of the BS at Santa Rosa City Council and SC BOS meetings, proving he has real backbone and principals.

I am most certain that Veronica Jacobi is NOT in the pockets of the big ag wine industry; though, as I do, would support truly good steward growers.

What I know about Efren and his staff, Susan Upchurch, is that they are criminals, and they are enabling criminals - the one who raped me, and allowed those who raped John Jenkel's land on hwy.116.

They knew about the illegal activities of Hobbs Winery, and John Molinari, my daughter's father for years, and did nothing, until the public outcry about Hobbs looked as if it may lose him/them the election.

I need that same public outcry to help put the man who raped me, and denied our child the care she needed BEFORE her life was lost, in jail.

Our community is not safe until that happens. Please ask the District Attorney's office why they are not pressing charges against John Molinari. They have 2 major pieces of evidence against him. I have the right to have this rapist go before a judge and jury. Just like in the Zimmerman case; only the public outcry will get the DA to take action on it.

I have reason to believe Efren, other Supervisors current and past, and others working for the Supervisors, likely have helped this rapist escape justice.

Carillo does not deserve your vote; or support in any way other than to be accountable for his involvement in crimes against his constituents.

Please don't feed these criminals; boycott Paul Hobbs Winery, and the businesses who sell and serve this wine made out of the destruction of our forests and scenic corridors.

Tell you friends, we need Efren Carillo and Shirley Zane replaced; they have indeed sold us out to the 1%.

:waccosun: Swift justice for all!,

Colleen Fernald

www.campaignforpeace.org

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by neil:

I agree with your point Conrad, to an extent. Modern political campaigns are EXPENSIVE! Candidates get money wherever they find it. They get other kinds of support, too, like use of a luxury home amidst the vineyards for an afternoon fundraiser.

I assume that when someone gives a lot of money or other support to a candidate, they expect that candidate to advance their interests if elected. The same would apply for any candidate, not just Carrillo. For example, when Wall Street pours in tens or hundreds of millions of (our stolen) dollars into Obama's and Romney's campaigns this year, they are hedging their bets. Whoever is elected will serve the interests of big finance.

In my opinion, it is indicative of something if the wine industry and other titans of Sonoma County business are throwing their weight behind Carrillo. Do they similarly support Jacobi and Carpenter? If so, then we should notice that, too. Saddling up to wealth has implications, as you found when you were back east.

Neil

---

A few facts:

When Efren Carrillo first ran for Supervisor, he ran on a promise to stop all gravel mining in the Russian River. After he won the election, he not only let mining continue, he extended the lease for another 15 years.

Mr. Carrillo claims that Ernie Carpenter was a consultant for a vineyard company ten years ago. In fact, what I did find out is that Mr. Carpenter actually persuaded the previous owners of Preservation Ranch to conserve 2/3 of the entire property to a land trust instead of converting the entire 20,000 acres. The property was then sold to the current owners.

Mr. Carpenter is on the record as being dead set against the conversion. Mr. Carrillo says he cannot talk about it. Why not? There is no legal reason why he can’t.

Or could it be he doesn’t want to talk about it because the current owners, who want to convert the entire 20,000 acres have donated generously to Mr. Carrillo’s campaign?

Look it up.

Consider this: When Efren Carrillo first ran for Supervisor, his major fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery in Sebastopol. The consulting winemaker for Lynmar is the notorious Paul Hobbs. These are the kinds of monies that line the campaign pockets of Efren Carrillo.

And those are the people he listens to. Not the communities who beg him to prevent an asphalt plant or a quarry in their backyard. Not the people who asked for the Russian River to remain clear of pollutants…

I find it amazing that Mr. Carrillo can accuse Ernie Carpenter of doing ten years ago what Mr. Carrillo is quite flagrantly doing today.

Carillo campaigns like he went to the Karl Rove school of politics.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by eeeeeeow:

A few facts:

When Efren Carrillo first ran for Supervisor, he ran on a promise to stop all gravel mining in the Russian River. After he won the election, he not only let mining continue, he extended the lease for another 15 years.

Mr. Carrillo claims that Ernie Carpenter was a consultant for a vineyard company ten years ago. In fact, what I did find out is that Mr. Carpenter actually persuaded the previous owners of Preservation Ranch to conserve 2/3 of the entire property to a land trust instead of converting the entire 20,000 acres. The property was then sold to the current owners.

Mr. Carpenter is on the record as being dead set against the conversion. Mr. Carrillo says he cannot talk about it. Why not? There is no legal reason why he can’t.

Or could it be he doesn’t want to talk about it because the current owners, who want to convert the entire 20,000 acres have donated generously to Mr. Carrillo’s campaign?

Look it up.

Consider this: When Efren Carrillo first ran for Supervisor, his major fundraiser was held at Lynmar Winery in Sebastopol. The consulting winemaker for Lynmar is the notorious Paul Hobbs. These are the kinds of monies that line the campaign pockets of Efren Carrillo.

And those are the people he listens to. Not the communities who beg him to prevent an asphalt plant or a quarry in their backyard. Not the people who asked for the Russian River to remain clear of pollutants…

I find it amazing that Mr. Carrillo can accuse Ernie Carpenter of doing ten years ago what Mr. Carrillo is quite flagrantly doing today.

---

Greetings!

I had lived in San Diego for years - once 'America's finest city'. Now it's like a little LA - thanks to 'development'. Twelve years ago, I noticed vacant commercial properties increasing as green fields were torn up and modern (ugly & toxic) buildings were built. Therefore, It is imperative for all of us in the 5th District to do some critical thinking about the facts. Just the facts. Not opinions.

What do we want Sonoma County to look like in 5, 10, 15 years from now? Ernie is clear on where is stands on issues / Efren is vague and secretive. Even his supporters have yet to clearly articulate where he stands, his ideas and visions for Sonoma County. "Just the facts, M'am. Just the facts."

Questions: Which candidate lives in a rural setting, giving them a first-hand experience on many issues? Shopping where we shop, driving the same roads, connecting with similar neighbors, etc.? What good is having a 5th district Supervisor live in Santa Rosa along the 101 corridor? How many county supervisors need to live in this urban setting? Do they really represent us and serve our communities or theirs?

Do we really need any more wineries? Do the wineries already here need more competition? There's more potential profit and longevity in organic orchards and vegetable gardens. Throw in a cafe serving delicious and healthy food plus a place to gather (like Ace in the Hole Pub) and someone will be a very busy and happy business owner. Plus a hero to the local communities!

Below is an important article in today's Press Democrat - May 30th 2012. Thanks for reading, thinking and sharing your ideas! Larysa

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120530/ARTICLES/205301065/1033/news?p=all&tc=pall

Mixed open space marks

Sonoma County 3rd highest in protected acres in Bay Area, but has most land threatened by potential development, report says

By BRETT WILKISON
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Published: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 4:03 a.m.

Last Modified: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 7:29 a.m.


Sonoma County has the third-highest tally of protected open space in the nine-county Bay Area.

Facts

OPEN SPACE REPORT CARD

In Sonoma County, the largest Bay Area county:
171,200 acres:
Permanently protected, third in Bay Area counties
115,500 acres:
At high-to-medium risk of development in next 30 years, first among Bay Area counties
649,200 acres:
At low risk of development

But more land in the county also remains threatened by development than in any other part of the bay region, according to a new report from the Greenbelt Alliance, an open space preservation group.
About 115,000 acres — an area more than four times the size of Santa Rosa — could be transformed by development within the next three decades, the group said.
That's more than a third of the 322,000 acres across the Bay Area likely to be threatened by development over the next 30 years, the report said.

I noticed that Carrillo isn't a friend to the environment, his vote can be bought and paid for, and he only serves the interests of big business and corporate greed. Let's hope enough people have woken up and realized how he is going to destroy our way of life (in the West County) if given the chance.
I know he will vote FOR the timber conversion. Simple as that, his vote has already been paid for.

Ernie Carpenter posted a very clear statement regarding why he is running for Efren's seat.

I moved it to our article section. See it here: Why I am running for the Board of Supervisors.

Barry

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/...206011452l.png

Ernie was kind enough :wink: to provide links to Efren's campaign disclosures. You can see them here and here. I have also added these links to Ernie's article.

I hope some of you will investigate these documents and report back regarding donations that appear to be linked to Efren's vote on key matters. I also hope this will lead to any accusations to be fact-based rather than base-less suspicion.

OK, that's enough slams against Efren, Imagery. If you want to post any more about him please post only facts with references and ones that you haven't already posted. I suggest you start with analyzing the disclosure links that I posted earlier today.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Imagery:

I noticed that Carrillo isn't a friend to the environment, his vote can be bought and paid for, and he only serves the interests of big business and corporate greed. Let's hope enough people have woken up and realized how he is going to destroy our way of life (in the West County) if given the chance.
I know he will vote FOR the timber conversion. Simple as that, his vote has already been paid for.

---

you sound like a republican.

Here's a link to Ernie's campaign disclosures.

Very nice endorsement of Efren from Vesta Copestakes with Sonoma County Gazette, including comments on Dutra and Best Family Winery.

I would echo everything that Vesta says about Efren and these two issues. My support for Efren has increased over the last four years...the Fifth District is so much the better with Efren representing us at the County.

My hope is that the end of the day will be Tuesday and that there will be a move toward reconciliation afterwards ;0).

L.

Tom Lynch
Guerneville

p.s. Don't forget I am running for State Assembly in the new 2nd Assembly District www.tomlynchforassembly.com. Our campaign is on major fundamental changes in the social contract between our government and ourselves.

VESTA'S ENDORSEMENT:
Efren Carrillo for 5th District Supervisor endorsement

Why I endorse Efren Carrillo for 5^th District Supervisor
By Vesta Copestakes

Efren Carrillo is the first supervisor since I have lived in Sonoma County (this time around, 1983 on) who literally devotes every day to the job. It's not a 9 to 5 for him. He treats it like a self-employed person treats their business. He is goal and task-oriented, and has the focus and energy to accomplish what he sets in front of himself to do.

He has a clear head for economics, as well as an ability to balance issues with a broad spectrum of considerations. When it was time to work on the budget and major cuts were in order, he hosted community meetings where people came to champion their own personal cause, but were also exposed to other champions of their causes, so everyone got first-hand exposure to the process and challenges. He didn't TELL us what was going to be done - he asked for our input.

He's a centrist - which I am - and in that position you will always anger people at either end of the spectrum, but you make progress on all fronts. I appreciate that.

His devotion to children is beyond any politician I have seen so far, from education to health care. He believes that by taking care of people you have a better society and save money in the long run. And to that effort, he has partnered to establish the Upstream Investment Program in Sonoma County, as well as made sure that children support services get funded. And not just children, but seniors as well. His respect for elders and elder needs is impressive. He is committed to supporting human needs with services that better society as a whole.

When a community has an issue that needs attention, he doesn't ask them to come to him - he sets up a community meeting and comes to the town, no matter how far out it is. He brings in experts from all sides to answer questions and interact with people about their issue. You get a real sense that your voice is being heard. And in many cases, your issue gets resolved because attention has been brought to the subject.

He's remarkably intelligent and spends a lot of time learning issues in depth before coming to a conclusion. His decisions don't feel like emotional or political decisions, they come across as considered based upon information and knowledge. I don't get the sense that emotion plays a part, or even political expediency, although I am sure there is some of that because it is the nature of the job. Government has a fair amount if “I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.” I consider that part of doing business, not some “crime.”

On environmental issues, I see him as balancing human and society/economic needs with environmental concerns. He has proven that he is committed to preserving open space with land acquisitions, budget support and championing programs that have long-term environmental benefits. This is a delicate balancing act. What I see is his focus is on preserving outlying areas, while building our economic base along the Hwy 101 corridor. I believe he has carried on Mike Reilly's environmental legacy with his commitment to healthy rivers, water resources, and wastewater management. We're making progress that can only be seen over the perspective of time, from past to the future.

Efren supports business in a way I can appreciate. Like I said above, he functions like an entrepreneur even though he is a government employee. Leaders and innovators need support in order to create jobs, and keep our area economically strong. Emphasis on jobs in environmentally sensitive businesses with strong social values is how we will get out of the economic slump, and into a sound economic future. Social and environmental values connects into taking care of people in the present, so they can thrive in the future.

I respect Efren as a person. I've watched him at meetings, hearings, gatherings, you name it. He's calm and polite, respectful and considerate. He has impressive charisma, grace and charm. These are all skills that serve him in his job to serve us.
Efren is non-combative and a team player. People focused on their own agenda take much more time to get a job accomplished. The battles that ensue are time and energy intensive (and therefore expensive when every hour is paid for by taxpayers!). Seeking consensus brings people to agreement quicker than arguing for your position. Yes, you can bring up all kinds of information in battle - but it pits one person's “right” against another's, and in my mind, anyone who feels passionate about something is right in their own mind. So just respect them even if you don't agree, and seek a balance where everyone can get the task accomplished. I prefer team players on my government team.

He's young and energetic. This job takes time - literally. I am old enough to know that long hours of intense work don't feel as easy when you're over 60 as when you're 30. It's time for us elders to pass the baton to young people who show talent for the job. Efren is not arrogant like so many young people. He listens. I want his energy and commitment to the future that us elders won't be around to experience.

I have endorsed Efren Carrillo - because I believe he is the person who will serve us best.

AS TO SPECiFIC VOTES THAT ARE CONTROVERSIAL:
DUTRA: Rock and a hard place...an asphalt plant next to a sensitive wetland and entrance to a community - not good - BUT - where else should it go? Placing it right by the highway where the product is transported for nearby use - and next to the river where the aggregate comes in on barges - and next to the pre-exisiting aggregate facility makes sense. Road products need to be transported as short a distance as possible, and roads need to be maintened frequently. Modern faciclites built to Sonoma County envionmental policy are not what the used to be. Have a little faith that this is a difficult balance of environmental needs to human needs - not a black and white situation. It's a rainbow of colors and considerations.

BEST FAMILY WINERY: The American Way is to have control over your own property - at least some say about what you want to do with it. This family has owned that land for many decades - since the 1920s. It's in vineyards already. The other three corners are commercial - an old packing plant - factory - warehouse facility - a gas station - and a Christmas tree farm. There's a trafic light on the corner because of the amount of traffic going through. There are maybe three to five homes scattered over many acres, but not what most of us would consider a neighborhood. The facility is being designed to LEED standards - ot doesn't get any more envirnomentlly sensitive. It will bring jobs and money to the area tha is already a commercial area. Re-zoning - from agricultural to business - one corner? The other three crners are already cmmercial. As you head south eest on Hwy 116 it's commercial relax - it's not the end of our world as we know it.

Efren Carrillo's $160,000 campaign war chest is further proof that Efren believes in government of the 1% by the 1% and for the 1%.

Every controversial vote Efren cast was in favor of the big corporations. His votes for Dutra, Best Family Investors Winery, Syar Gravel Mining and Frost Protection are the foundation for his ultimate dream project, Preservation Ranch. Shhhhh, let's not talk about that one till after the election.

Is Efren a hard worker? Working hard at self promotion and photo ops is just campaigning. If Efren is reelected we can be sure that the 1% will continue to be well protected and represented but " Who Speaks for Us? "

He'll vote for big business everytime, as long as they support his campaign. Please, please, please vote Carrillo out of office.