Reporter seeking "unbiased" information on Chemtrails

Hi,
I'm forwarding this request because I know there are a few people on WACCO with an interest in this subject and possibly some interesting facts for this reporter.
Best,
Peggy
ps I'm not sure from the context what the 'other side' is.

Subject: I wish to conduct a non bias investigation documentary on chem trails.

Just to let you all know I plan to start an investigation non bias investigation on chem trails. Condensation or chemical trails, which one are they? that is the question I will be asking. Any information from other side would be great!

Thanks

Carl Carl Fiske [mailto:[email protected]]

MendoPower Employment Services
Fort Bragg, CA 95437
707-962-9279

I consider Catherine Austin-Fitts to be an intelligent source of information.

Here she mentions Chemtrails in her preview to the whole Solari Report.

https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Also, interesting to note is her naturopath's recommendation for using a specific kind of diatomaceous earth to detoxify the chemicals of chemtrails from our bodies.

Liz:waccosun:

Sounds interesting. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to access the podcast. Seems to be other problems with her web site.
Could it have been hacked? Or is it my browser???

Thanks for the post, ubaru!

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Posted in reply to the post by ubaru:

I consider Catherine Austin-Fitts to be an intelligent source of information.

Here she mentions Chemtrails in her preview to the whole Solari Report.

https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Also, interesting to note is her naturopath's recommendation for using a specific kind of diatomaceous earth to detoxify the chemicals of chemtrails from our bodies.

Liz:waccosun:

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Quote:

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Sounds interesting. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to access the podcast. Seems to be other problems with her web site.
Could it have been hacked? Or is it my browser???

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Hi CSummer,

I'll give you the highlights. Use only Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Most diatomaceous earth has already absorbed heavy metals. This source has not. Put about 1 TBS in 16oz of water and drink first thing in the morning. Take away from any mineral supplements or high mineral content foods as it may pull these minerals out of your body.

It's been awhile since I've listened to her, but the main impression I'm left with is to come out of denial that chemtrails are happening. Look up in the sky and talk about them with the people in your life.

The audio https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a is working fine on my computer and it's playing on Windows Media Player.

www.solari.com is coming up fine on my Firefox browser.

I'm sorry you're having problems. Why don't you try another browser?

Liz :waccosun:

When I clicked on the links, it seemed like it would load something, but it just routed me right back to the same place where I clicked on the links. Too bad... I'm interested in the subject! Wondering where they (the planes) were for a while, when the skies were so perfectly clear and blue? Maybe I missed it, but does anybody know why they stopped and now they just seem like they're doing random acts?
Thanks for any info.

Regards to all,
Rev. Allorrah Be

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by ubaru:

Hi CSummer,

I'll give you the highlights. Use only Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Most diatomaceous earth has already absorbed heavy metals. This source has not. Put about 1 TBS in 16oz of water and drink first thing in the morning. Take away from any mineral supplements or high mineral content foods as it may pull these minerals out of your body.

It's been awhile since I've listened to her, but the main impression I'm left with is to come out of denial that chemtrails are happening. Look up in the sky and talk about them with the people in your life.

The audio https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a is working fine on my computer and it's playing on Windows Media Player.

www.solari.com is coming up fine on my Firefox browser.

I'm sorry you're having problems. Why don't you try another browser?

Liz :waccosun:

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:

When I clicked on the links, it seemed like it would load something, but it just routed me right back to the same place where I clicked on the links. Too bad... I'm interested in the subject! Wondering where they (the planes) were for a while, when the skies were so perfectly clear and blue? Maybe I missed it, but does anybody know why they stopped and now they just seem like they're doing random acts?
Thanks for any info.

Regards to all,
Rev. Allorrah Be

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Hi Allorrah Be,

I'm in Marin and there have hardly been any chemtrails here for many months. I saw a few one day last week, but I'm experiencing less lately.

I wish you could access the audio link. What browser are you using?

Susan

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by ubaru:

Hi CSummer,

I'll give you the highlights. Use only Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Most diatomaceous earth has already absorbed heavy metals. This source has not. Put about 1 TBS in 16oz of water and drink first thing in the morning. Take away from any mineral supplements or high mineral content foods as it may pull these minerals out of your body.

It's been awhile since I've listened to her, but the main impression I'm left with is to come out of denial that chemtrails are happening. Look up in the sky and talk about them with the people in your life.

The audio https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a is working fine on my computer and it's playing on Windows Media Player.

www.solari.com is coming up fine on my Firefox browser.

I'm sorry you're having problems. Why don't you try another browser?

Liz :waccosun:

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thanks, liz, for all your contributions here. whatever posts, of yours, i've had time to read are always spot on! they've been spraying heavily the past few days and most people remain clueless!
aloha,
becky

I have heard reports that chemtrails are in out of the way pristine places in the world such as New Zealand and the Central S. African nations. That tells me it's a global agenda.

Chemtrails contain nano particles of aluminum, barium, manganese, thorium, nickel, and many other toxic heavy metals at levels 100's of X over the max limit for human exposure. For copies of lab results showing these see https://arizonaskywatch.com and click on the 2008 and 2009 results.

This means every time you inhale your lungs are getting these metals and chemicals. That is why I'd seriously consider the diatomaceous earth remedy. Use only Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Put 1 TBS in 16oz. water first thing in the morning.

For pets: Put in your pet's wet food @ 1/2-1 tsp. per 12# cat. It will also de-worm them in 60 days. (Do a search for dosage for other animals). You can't overdose them (within reason). Just don't let the fine particles be breathed. They are a lung irritant.

I also know of a very effective and gentle method of detoxifying from heavy metals/chemicals for humans that safely bypasses the organs of elimination. Please email me off list for details.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFpS1yVioLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFpS1yVioLM

This video has good info regarding the metals and chemicals in the chemtrails, but in my opinion it being touted as a solution to global warming is very misleading. See https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...ht=#post140377

I have heard that there is a relationship between the use of HAARP and chemtrails.
I suggest searching You Tube for videos on this, and sort through the dross.

Liz :waccosun:

Sharingwisdom has taken the time to post information about Chemtrails here:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...ght=chemtrails

Then do a search here on Waccobb and elsewhere for chemtrails to see what others have discussed.

Liz :waccosun:

Saw 2 planes spewing chemtrails while I was on a walk out in Cazadero yesterday.....

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Posted in reply to the post by earthpunk:

Saw 2 planes spewing chemtrails while I was on a walk out in Cazadero yesterday.....

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How can you tell if it is a chemtrail? What do they look like? I saw a plane over Sebastopol this am leaving a white trail, but my understanding is that these are contrails - condensation trails.

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Posted in reply to the post by Gina Williams:

How can you tell if it is a chemtrail? What do they look like? I saw a plane over Sebastopol this am leaving a white trail, but my understanding is that these are contrails - condensation trails.

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Contrails will dissipate quickly. Chemtrails spread out, can form wispy mares manes, and linger for hours. If you see them crisscrossing each other, that's a common pattern they use to cover the sky with a toxic haze.

Get some diatomaceous earth -- Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Put 1 TBS in 16oz. water first thing in the morning.

I'm so glad you are asking this question. It's going to help a lot of people become aware.

Liz:waccosun:

I saw confirming information today from ISA that contrails are the water vapor that comes out of jet engines and dissipates within 10-20 seconds.

Chemtrails do not come out of the engines, but rather from nozzles above the engines which are fed by tubes from inside the plane.

I've seen them today and the last two days plus last week in Marin after not seeing them for months.

Liz :waccosun:

And today, out of a clear blue sky this afternoon, it's FOGGY at "sunset" in Sebastopol?!!
I admit I'm new in this area, but it came on so suddenly today, I can't believe it's natural.
Is it?

Rev. Allorrah Be
:waccosun:

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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:

And today, out of a clear blue sky this afternoon, it's FOGGY at "sunset" in Sebastopol?!!
I admit I'm new in this area, but it came on so suddenly today, I can't believe it's natural.
Is it?
:waccosun:

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Yes! :waccosun:

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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:

And today, out of a clear blue sky this afternoon, it's FOGGY at "sunset" in Sebastopol?!!
I admit I'm new in this area, but it came on so suddenly today, I can't believe it's natural.
Is it?

Rev. Allorrah Be
:waccosun:

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Late afternoon fog is common in Sebastopol, it rolls in from the coast. Ragel Park is a good place where you can see it moving in from a distance.

When I first heard about Chemtrails in the late nineties, I spent many hours looking at everything I could find online. Since I'm not a Biochemist, Climatologist, Chemicals Engineer, Aerospace Engineer or any other kind of expert in the relevant fields, I could only evaluate what I understood.

What became clear after a while is that the original claims came from a small group of websites, and a few key individuals, that cited each other in a daisy-chain of "confirmation". And the voluminous texts available all fed off each other. That was over ten years ago. I'm sure there's far more interconnected information now available.

So, as in most conspiracy theories, unless and until there is hard evidence, checked by and verified by established and reputable sources, competing sources, I will remain skeptical.

Of course, in such conspiracies, the fact that no reputable sources support the claims, is part of the "proof" that they are true. And the whole chemtrail vs. contrail distinction, is also given as "evidence".

Here's the question I've never seen Chemtrail claimants answer. If there is a vast global conspiracy to spread chemicals in the upper atmosphere for nefarious purposes (Weather Control? Terraforming for the Saurians? Genetic Engineering / Stupefaction of the Masses? Take your pick, there are several other intersecting versions.) why would the elites responsible for them expose themselves and their families to the same chemicals?

What's in it for them?

This wiki seems apropos to the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

When I first heard about Chemtrails in the late nineties, I spent many hours looking at everything I could find online. Since I'm not a Biochemist, Climatologist, Chemicals Engineer, Aerospace Engineer or any other kind of expert in the relevant fields, I could only evaluate what I understood.

What became clear after a while is that the original claims came from a small group of websites, and a few key individuals, that cited each other in a daisy-chain of "confirmation". And the voluminous texts available all fed off each other. That was over ten years ago. I'm sure there's far more interconnected information now available.

So, as in most conspiracy theories, unless and until there is hard evidence, checked by and verified by established and reputable sources, competing sources, I will remain skeptical.

Of course, in such conspiracies, the fact that no reputable sources support the claims, is part of the "proof" that they are true. And the whole chemtrail vs. contrail distinction, is also given as "evidence".

Here's the question I've never seen Chemtrail claimants answer. If there is a vast global conspiracy to spread chemicals in the upper atmosphere for nefarious purposes (Weather Control? Terraforming for the Saurians? Genetic Engineering / Stupefaction of the Masses? Take your pick, there are several other intersecting versions.) why would the elites responsible for them expose themselves and their families to the same chemicals?

What's in it for them?

This wiki seems apropos to the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

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It's a load of crap - people who espouse such beliefs have no idea how absurd they sound to anyone with even just a basic background in meteorology. And yes - if you're planning on being here, get used to it - advection fog blows in off the ocean and fills the entire area with great regularity. It is an entirely natural process and keeps this area relatively green and pleasant compared to points east in Calfornia.

Thanks, Barry! I really had no frame of reference, having lived in Hawaii for 20 years!
See you at the picnic.

Rev. Allorrah Be :heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Yes! :waccosun:

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On the Topic of Atmospheric Geo-engineering, A.K.A. "Chemtrails" See:

https://www.californiaskywatch.com/

https://www.agriculturedefensecoalition.org/

Visit these websites where you will find "40,000" related documents researched by Ms. R. Peterson, California President and Co-Founder of the Agriculture Defense Coalition. Ms. Peterson graduated from SSU in Environmental Studies and Planning (ENSP) and worked as an Agricultural Technologist for the Mendocino County Department of Agriculture, and is a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor.

Contact: Rosalind Peterson.

End

Maui residents craft legislation to ban geo-engineering 'chemtrails'


September 26, 2011
by: Ethan A. Huff,
NaturalNews
https://www.naturalnews.com/033691_chemtrails_Maui.html

The mainstream news media has been quietly releasing an increasing number of stories these days that openly admit the existence of geo-engineering programs, including accounts of various chemical and particle release programs similar to the "chemtrail" operations that those dubbed as conspiracy theorists have been warning the public about for years.


Consider this recent report in Scientific American, for instance, which speaks openly about plans in the UK for an advanced new device that will pump toxins in the atmosphere to promote atmospheric "cooling." The article references how the new design is much more efficient and less expensive than "launch[ing] thousands of high-altitude aircraft" to do the same task https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ng-the-climate



There is a plethora of additional information and reports out there as well that confirm the existence of geo-engineering and chemtrail programs, many of which have been shown to already be in use, not to mention thousands of eyewitness reports and independent particle tests.


So in response, Michael J. Murphy, co-producer of the documentary What in the World Are They Spraying?, and a large and growing group of concerned citizens in Maui, Hawaii, have created a county ordinance by which they hope to put an end to this environmental terrorism.


If you have yet to see Murphy's film for yourself, be sure to watch this 11-minute trailer to gain some further insight into the geo-engineering agenda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=te_FOsKL_5Q#%21
https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...e_FOsKL_5Q#%21


In a recent press release, Murphy explains that he and his team, with the help of a growing base of concerned citizens, are working to pass The Clean Sky Ordinance, a law that will ban any and all geo-engineering and chemtrail programs from taking place in the skies above Maui County.


The ordinance, which is currently being sponsored by several public officials and council members in the area, prohibits the release of aerosols and other particulates into the atmosphere without informed consent from the people of Maui County.


You can watch a video that highlights the birth of the ordinance here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0XEQP3igk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-0XEQP3igk


Murphy is also encouraging citizens of counties across the US to craft similar legislation, and work to get it passed in their own areas as well.


To learn more about how to fight illegal geo-engineering in your community, visit:
https://www.coalitionagainstgeoengineering.org/

Sources for this story include:

https://theintelhub.com/2011/09/22/t...sky-ordinance/

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Posted in reply to the post by ubaru:

Contrails will dissipate quickly. Chemtrails spread out, can form wispy mares manes, and linger for hours. If you see them crisscrossing each other, that's a common pattern they use to cover the sky with a toxic haze.

Get some diatomaceous earth -- Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com Put 1 TBS in 16oz. water first thing in the morning.

I'm so glad you are asking this question. It's going to help a lot of people become aware.

Liz:waccosun:

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"Contrails will dissipate quickly. Chemtrails spread out, can form wispy mares manes, and linger for hours."

I say this in all kindness - That is the biggest fallacy of this entire belief system. Contrails last longer in air that contains more moisture and dissipate in dry air - That's it - all this other stuff just plays on the average persons lack of background in atmospheric science.

Good luck with "unbiased". I asked my contacts on the "other side" to remember the discussions from the Art Bell show. People getting sick from chemtrails seemed to be psychosomatic. Connecting them to the weather fronts, carried along by the jet stream, seemed to indicate conscious influencing of the weather. The haze created may have roots in the "Father" of our thermonuclear weapons, Dr. Teller, advising the military to add monoatomic metals to the jet fuel to both lubricate the turbines and change the Albedo of the atmosphere to slow run away global warming. No one called in and reported rational knowledge about the issue. It was all conjecture. I wonder if adding a lubricant to the jet fuel added more particulate matter to the exhaust gasses, increasing the volume of condensation and inadvertently started to influence the weather? Problem there is that the trails do not evaporate like normal condensation and do expand to cover the sky with haze. I have used a telephoto lens to verify that the "Spraying" is done through the engines. Please let us in on any findings.

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Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens:

"Contrails will dissipate quickly. Chemtrails spread out, can form wispy mares manes, and linger for hours."

I say this in all kindness - That is the biggest fallacy of this entire belief system. Contrails last longer in air that contains more moisture and dissipate in dry air - That's it - all this other stuff just plays on the average persons lack of background in atmospheric science.

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It was suggested to consume diatomaceous earth to stay safe. Food grade diatomaceous earth is silica and alumina. Silica is the main component of sand and glass. Alumina is aluminum. It's not so good to breathe, as it can cause silicosis in the lungs. Can't imagine how it could help to ingest it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

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Posted in reply to the post by Jammer:

It was suggested to consume diatomaceous earth to stay safe. Food grade diatomaceous earth is silica and alumina. Silica is the main component of sand and glass. Alumina is aluminum. It's not so good to breathe, as it can cause silicosis in the lungs. Can't imagine how it could help to ingest it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth

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True, it is a lung irritant. Don't inhale it. The directions are to drink it stirred into water so that it can pull the heavy metals out of your body. Diatomaceous earth is an incredible attractant for heavy metals. Most diatomaceous earth is not food grade, which is not distinguished in the Wikipedia entry, and most food grade diatomaceous earth has already absorbed metals. The source recommended by Catherine Austin-Fitts' naturopath, Fossil Shell powder from www.Perma-Guard.com has not absorbed metals, making it available to do so. Put 1 TBS in 16oz. water and drink first thing in the morning (away from mineral supplements or mineral rich foods).

Liz:waccosun:

Chemtrails are real.

Chemtrails are real. Whatever they may be, they are not ice crystals, the frozen vapor trails we all used to see as children.

I remember the first time I ever noticed the contrails from the back of a high-flying jet. It was in the Summer of ‘56. I remember asking my mother what caused the jet to leave that vapor trail in the sky, and she told me; It was ice crystals.

Now, the vapor out of a jet will not turn into ice crystals until the jet is flying up high; in the stratosphere, at an altitude of at least ten thousand feet. You can verify that, or at least view the debate on this topic, here:

Google search of Chemtrails stratosphere contrails


And here:

Google search of Chemtrails ten thousand feet ice crystals


No, Chemtrails are something else again; Other than the vapor trails out of the back of a jet engine, that turn to ice at high altitudes. In the first place, Chemtrails are generally a low altitude phenomena. Where I live, at fifteen hundred feet altitude, facing the Ridge that is the Napa County line, the Chemtrails that are laid above the Ridge on most mornings appear to be at about five to six thousand feet in altitude - too low for Ice crystals to form from the vapor trail of a Jet engine.

The shiny white lines that are emitted out of the belly of the C-100's that fly out of Edwards Air Force base, soon fan into clouds, as the wind blows them eastward across the Napa valley. By the time they are over the Central Valley, they actually look like clouds. From where I live, I have watched part of this Process unfold; many, many mornings.

Google search of Chemtrails Edwards Air Force base



Also – and this is very important - there were no Chemtrails before the Year 1989; the first year that the George H.W. Bush was in Office. You can confirm that here if you choose:

"

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chemtrails%2C+1989&hl=en&num=100&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images


Some websites maintain that the Bush Family have a financial interest in the production of this aerial phenomena: Google Search : “Bush Crime Family”, Chemtrails , "



Some maintain that the purpose of the Chemtrails is for population reduction – the genocide of “useless eaters.”

939,000


That it is a form of biological warfare :

240,000


That it is a Project connected with HAARP :

2,110,000


And, some maintain, All the fuss is about nothing more than Weather Modification:

543,000

One thing for sure: There are now seven million two hundred ninety thousand (7,290,000) hits that come up when you Google the word Chemtrails at this time; October 2, 2011. That’s a lot of hits. I would suggest that there is something more happening here than just a simple “Popular Delusion” or that ol' “Madness of Crowds.” Where there is that much “smoke,”there is generally “fire” as well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chem...r=&safe=images
7,290,000

- Mark Walter Evans -

Here is an instance when it would be great to have - instead of simply "express your gratitude" - the ability to rate a post, e.g., on a 0-5 scale. Then, when a post simply makes disparaging remarks about what someone else has posted without providing useful information (see below), readers can appropriately rate it. This could allow readers to select which posts they want to read based on the member's average ratings.

Just an idea . . .

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Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens:

The above claims range from uninformed to absurd to idiotic. Again - You are free to burden yourself with erroneous information like this if you want... one day the purveyors of such drivel will be exposed for the frauds they are. Meantime, you get to spend years of your life being fearful and suspicious - a state where you are far more manipulable and open to persuasion by powers that be.

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"There is none so blind as he who will not see."
- Mathew Henry

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Chemtrails are real.

Chemtrails are real. Whatever they may be, they are not ice crystals, the frozen vapor trails we all used to see as children. ...

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Pterosapiens wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
The above claims range from uninformed to absurd to idiotic. Again - You are free to burden yourself with erroneous information like this if you want... one day the purveyors of such drivel will be exposed for the frauds they are. Meantime, you get to spend years of your life being fearful and suspicious - a state where you are far more manipulable and open to persuasion by powers that be.

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Is that all you can say, in the face of over Seven million hits on the Web? - Just offer us more of your intellectual chauvinism? Obviously you are not willing to even look at any of the evidence; somehow you think it is enough to denounce the whole field of this Phenomena with a few, pithy words of derogation. "Ask Doctor Science; he knows more than we do." You, Pterosapiens, know better; We, the great unwashed & superstitious masses are deluded.

Ah, the Art of the short, barbed Negation {quite In, these days}: Void of Substance; empty of tuchen.

https://aircrap.org/category/chemtrail-evidence/


Mark Walter Evans

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Posted in reply to the post by garden:

Whether Pterosapiens uses the phrase "load of crap" as in a previous post to describe the views of other WaccoBB members, or whether he refers to other WaccoBB participants' discussion participation as "uninformed to absurd to idiotic," or "erroneous," or he posts that "purveyors of such drivel will be exposed for the frauds they are," his language is unacceptably hostile and abusive of other WaccoBB participants in all examples.

Ubaru's posts have not contained abusive or hostile language, yet she has been attacked repeatedly with hostility and abusive language by him (Pterosapiens), as have others.

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maybe we need a 'safe and friendly only' setting..
Personally, I get offended when I am the target of comments like that. So? I can't say I enjoy being offended, but I don't want to be protected from such occasions, either. I also don't want to be prohibited from use of such phrasings myself when I am so moved.
Note that he refrained from personal attacks - the closest he comes is "purveyors of such drivel" and even that phrase is reserved for the "authorities" being quoted, not the Waccoon who found them convincing.

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Posted in reply to the post by garden:

Whether Pterosapiens uses the phrase "load of crap" as in a previous post to describe the views of other WaccoBB members, or whether he refers to other WaccoBB participants' discussion participation as "uninformed to absurd to idiotic," or "erroneous," or he posts that "purveyors of such drivel will be exposed for the frauds they are," his language is unacceptably hostile and abusive of other WaccoBB participants in all examples.

Ubaru's posts have not contained abusive or hostile language, yet she has been attacked repeatedly with hostility and abusive language by him (Pterosapiens), as have others.

Such abusive language by Pterosapiens is designed to shut-down discussion, his intent is to offend, and to intimidate WaccoBB participants from exploring ideas and information that are unconventional. We should instead cultivate a spirit of intellectual openness, explored in a civil tone, respectful of each member's rights and individual humanity. With freedom comes an obligation to behave responsibly and respectfully toward everyone within the community.

Request > Webmaster: Please add a "flag" option for "abusive language, etc." to the discussion string options, then we can not only send "gratitude" for posts, but we could also alert you to the use of abusive language, in whatever form it may take (insulting language, sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.).

After receipt of one or more alerts from WaccoBB participants, the Forum Moderator can temporarily remove each post while considering the issue, or delete them as unnecessarily hostile or unacceptably abusive, or in the case of a participant's demonstrated pattern and practice of expressing hostility through the use of abusive language directed at other WaccoBB members, deny membership to the offender. Thank you. :Yinyangv:

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Oh yes, let's all be politically correct whilst infringing on free speech, it's a political tradition of both the extreme left and the extreme right.......

Hey, I request you take the new topic you've created to another post. Let's keep this one about chemtrails.

Thanks,
Liz:waccosun:

I also found Pterosapiens unnecessarily harsh. I note that he(?) has deleted it, but it remains quoted in some of the replies.

Please be kind and tolerant folks.

I must say that I have been a chemtrails skeptic until recently. This recent article in Scientific American seems to indicate that it is not beyond consideration.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I must say that I have been a chemtrails skeptic until recently. This recent article in Scientific American seems to indicate that it is not beyond consideration.

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it's the grab-bag of phenomena lumped as 'chemtrails' that's the issue, along with the implication/outright claims of secretive and nefarious organizations being responsible.
Sure, there may well be both experiments and active attempts at weather manipulation going on occasionally. I think it's most likely that those who are attempting to pollute our precious bodily fluids are doing it through fluoridated water, rather than wastefully spreading it from airplanes. That stuff's got to be too expensive for that. Notice that there's nothing secretive about the UK effort you mention. Why the overlords are bothering to be secretive about the aerial spraying effort, when they're quite overt about most of the poisons they put into our food and environment, has never been explained in a way that makes any sense to me.

Here are my two cents.
This couldn't be real because the powers that be would not want to poison their families??
That is absurd. If Corporations and governments cared about their "families" do you think the Planet would be in this horrendous mess of environmental crisis? That holds water like a sieve.
Secondly, even those who think they are aware of their surroundings often have no idea what is natural and unnatural.
In the last few months I've heard the same statement from 2 different individuals: "That's so weird, the moon was out in the middle of the day!" Excuse me?? What planet have you been living on? Or you read passages in books like, "As evening came, I watched the new moon rise" or that the moon rises as night falls for a week in a row.
If you observe your sky and all that is happening up there every day, many times a day, you may develop an understanding, otherwise you really needn't try to be an authority in this conversation.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by claire ossenbeck:

In the last few months I've heard the same statement from 2 different individuals: "That's so weird, the moon was out in the middle of the day!" Excuse me?? What planet have you been living on? Or you read passages in books like, "As evening came, I watched the new moon rise" or that the moon rises as night falls for a week in a row.
If you observe your sky and all that is happening up there every day, many times a day, you may develop an understanding, otherwise you really needn't try to be an authority in this conversation.

---

...What are you talking about? What does your statement have to do with the topic?

Real accredited climatologists and atmospheric sciencists have weighed in on this subject for years and have collectively written the subject off as the fodder of "conspiracy theorists." I would conisder them to be somewhat an authority on this subject, wouldnt you think? But, these scientists are quickly criticized for being connected to big corporations or bought off or some other excuse rather than accept their findings and understand that our government isnt always trying to kill us.

Instead, most of the links from the "experts" on chemtrails posted on this thread lead you to nutty (and embarassingly poorly built) websites which ultimately do more harm for the posters arguement than help.

There's my 2 centavos...

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Posted in reply to the post by Sebtown1968:

(Claire said: )Secondly, even those who think they are aware of their surroundings often have no idea what is natural and unnatural.
In the last few months I've heard the same statement from 2 different individuals: "That's so weird, the moon was out in the middle of the day!" Excuse me?? What planet have you been living on? Or you read passages in books like, "As evening came, I watched the new moon rise" or that the moon rises as night falls for a week in a row.
If you observe your sky and all that is happening up there every day, many times a day, you may develop an understanding, otherwise you really needn't try to be an authority in this conversation.

...What are you talking about? What does your statement have to do with the topic?

---

My point is that by and large, we aren't really tuned into our environment. The changes in the sky have become standard, if we even observe them at all. Or, perhaps we don't really pay attention to cloud formation or to the moon or planets. They are not within our sphere of interest. (And besides, how would this be going on? No way!!)
My point was that many people have complete ignorance of what is normal, especially in the natural environment. They don't even know the moon's schedule. Our one and only moon. It's not tricky and it doesn't change much.
I think, how could you not know that and I'm guessing that these are the same type of people that are oblivious or dismiss the premise of persistent contrails.
So they don't have to hide a thing because the general population doesn't really look up and see.
Actually as a sky watcher, every day, much of the day, I had wondered about this but found no answers and didn't really use the internet. Then it became the weird norm and.... And it would be pretty much beyond belief.
In fact, when you do look at this online, you are very quickly distracted by the most ridiculous, outlandish conspiracies.

So, believe or not believe, just become your own authority. Check out your own sky. It's free, it's available. It's interesting and I think it's now scary. Find out what to look for and look up, look up and see for your Self.
(Now, however, they seem to be "geo-engineering" predawn around here. Those who are up then see them all the time.)

Is it really so hard to believe that there could be chemicals or metals being dispersed in our Air - for whatever reason?

Also, watch the whole video, What in the World Are They Spraying?
They interview scientists with excellent credentials and others who admit that geo-engineering is happening. Oh yes, and pay special attention to the Monsanto patent on record.

And back to the premise that "they" wouldn't hurt their own... Monsanto?? of course not.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by claire ossenbeck:

My point is that by and large, we aren't really tuned into our environment. The changes in the sky have become standard, if we even observe them at all. ....
I think, how could you not know that and I'm guessing that these are the same type of people that are oblivious or dismiss the premise of persistent contrails. .

---

You ended up in a totally different place than I thought you were going. I thought you were saying that people are so unaware of the sky they vastly underestimate the natural variety of atmospheric phenomena.

Hey, Sebtownman1968, Ahoy!

With your leave, Claire, I will answer Mark Inman, aka, Sebtown1968, on your behalf.

Mark, I understand perfectly what Claire is saying; and it is all very clear in her statement :

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png claire ossenbeckwrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
If you observe your sky and all that is happening up there every day, many times a day, you may develop an understanding, otherwise you really needn't try to be an authority in this conversation.

---

What Claire is saying, is that some people are not in their bodies; they do not really see (or notice) some very basic natural phenomena that has been happening right in front of them all their lives - like the phases of the Moon... As it is written, "Having eyes, they see not; having ears, they hear not; neither do their hearts understand."

This means that some people, although gifted with outward sight, and seemingly "in" their bodies; and who have lived for years upon Mother Terra, are still unable to observe the sky that is spread out before them all day and all night. Likewise, some people, it seems, are unable to remember the high altitude contrails we all saw as children and to realize that "contrails" { which are ice crystals at a high altitude} are very different - and behave differently - from from the Chemtrail = Clouds that are so common today {since 1989}.

We must distinguish between the Phenomena of the Chemtrail=Clouds themselves, which are a recent phenomena - that have only been happening since 1989 - and the enormous flurry about them, on the Internet... Plenty of conspiracy-mongering there, I'll grant you.

But, I re-iterate,

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Chemtrails are real. Whatever they may be, they are not ice crystals, the frozen vapor trails we all used to see as children. ...

---

Now, to address this:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Sebtown1968 wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
Real accredited climatologists and atmospheric sciencists have weighed in on this subject for years and have collectively written the subject off as the fodder of "conspiracy theorists." I would conisder them to be somewhat an authority on this subject, wouldnt you think? But, these scientists are quickly criticized for being connected to big corporations or bought off or some other excuse rather than accept their findings and understand that our government isnt always trying to kill us.

Instead, most of the links from the "experts" on chemtrails posted on this thread lead you to nutty (and embarassingly poorly built) websites which ultimately do more harm for the posters arguement than help.

---

Show us some links, please. Name some names of some of these "Real accredited climatologists and atmospheric sciencists" [sic] wouldya? Be specific. We need facts. I agree wholeheartedly that the Subject of Chemtrails is the fodder of plenty of conspiracy theories. In the run of the seven million two hundred and ninety thousand {7,290,000} hits that come up with when one does a Google Search of the word Chemtrails, there is a lot of wacky materiel.

But, as I said above, "Where there is smoke, there is fire." One of the more clever ways that the Company {C.I.A.} "covers up" phenomena that they want to contain, is by generating a whole lot of disinformation and black propaganda to muddy up the waters. They always use the word "conspiracy" very liberally, too, when they want to contain a Subject, and dissuade strata like the Chompskyites, and Leftist systems analysis ideologues from accepting the reality of some weird thing like Chemtrails. That's because no self-respecting Chompskyite wants to be caught dead holding any opinion associated in any way, with any sort of "Conspiracy thinking."

How did the C.I.A. deal with containing public awareness about the Kennedy assassination after the cat was out of the bag, and a significant number of Citizens began to realize that the Warren Commission Report was a cover-up?

After the first serious critiques of the Warren Commission Report were were published, the C.I.A. began a little cottage industry of their own, churning out one conspiracy pot-boiler after another; paperback after paperback. All of the Company-generated disinformation about who killed J.F.K. had some validity, but, in the aggregate, it was all wrong, and off the mark. The purpose was to generate confusion. Then the C.I.A. coined a handy little phrase. It caught on. They said: "Oh, that's just another conspiracy theory."

That, to my knowledge, is the authentic, historical etiology of the phrase "Conspiracy Theory." If it is not the precise origin of the term, it most certainly is the point at which the phrase entered History with a vengeance.

Mark Walter Evans

So, in essence, you are presenting the arguement that geoengineering is going on out in the open because "people" are no longer paying attention to the sky? And based on 2 people talking about the moon - that passes as an adequate scientific sampling to arrive at nobody's paying attention.

There are thousands of people who's job is centered around the sky in some form or another. Wouldn't a reasonable person have found hard evidence of this by now? Geoengineering pre-dawn? Huh?

I did watch the entire video "What in the World Are They Spraying" and found it full of the same overly-edited shock journalism that one can see on Fox each night. Cascading newspaper clips and half spoken points from news casts is hardly hard journalism. This video seems nothing short of fearmongering to me as, in the end their findings are loose, unverified and unproven.

Here is a review of the film that adds some yin to your yang:

https://contrailscience.com/what-in-...they-spraying/

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Sebtown1968:

So, in essence, you are presenting the arguement (sic) that geoengineering is going on out in the open because "people" are no longer paying attention to the sky? And based on 2 people talking about the moon - that passes as an adequate scientific sampling to arrive at nobody's paying attention.

---

Oh come on. Did I say I was stipulating that for 'adequate scientific sampling'? I was using it as an example (within my own small sphere of people) of those who don't even know what's up in their own sky. I believe they are ubiquitous. That is why something like this could be happening without an uproar. I'll bet there are quite a few of those types adamantly denying the possibility of chemtrails right here on this forum.
I am saying Observe for yourself.
And Podfish, I would say that " people are so unaware of the sky they vastly underestimate the natural variety of atmospheric phenomena" not to mention unnatural.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtr...spiracy_theory

https://www.debunker.com/conspiracy.html

https://conspiracies.skepticproject....es/chemtrails/

https://www.nmsr.org/chemtrls.htm

This took five minutes of googling. (Barry, for some reason the site is not automatically hyperlinking wikipedia URL's.)

Claire, I'm fully aware of what phase the moon is in. I can read it everyday on the weather page of the newspaper, if I have lost track. And I have never been surprised at seeing it during daylight hours. I'm lucky to live up on a hill in Forestville so when the sky is clear, I can see the stars pretty well. There is still ambient urban light. So it's not as clear as memorable times I've been out in the boonies, or driving cross country, and have observed a clear night sky from lookouts in New Mexico or Utah and many other places.

Lately I've been noticing how, due to the season, Ursa Major is so low on the horizon that I cannot see it due to the ambient urban light north of me. Windsor and Healdsburg specifically.

Before you make sweeping assumptions about what others are, or are not aware of, I would check with some reputable sources. Anecdotal evidence is just that. And intuition only carries you so far.

Everybody, just as with all other True Belief phenomenon, Vaccines, Ron Paul, Alex Jones, Obama, The Tea Party, Allopathic vs. Alternative Medicine/TCM/Homeopathy/Naturopathy, The Secret / Law of Attraction, The Inevitable Triumph of the Proletariat over the Bourgeoisie, Christ's Return, and on and on and on, there is no resolution to this debate.

The believers will believe, no matter what they're presented with. The skeptics will choose not to believe (or I prefer, be convinced, belief itself is a dangerous and problematic issue) unless and until clear and irrefutable evidence from multiple and competing sources is provided, if then. And a whole range of opinion will exist in between and outside of such polar opposite positions.

Ultimately we're all entitled to think whatever we choose. What we're not entitled to do, is enforce our beliefs by forcing them on others. Even if it's for their own good.

But what constitutes "forcing ones beliefs (or lack thereof) on others" is also highly debatable. When beliefs lead to actions which are harmful to others, then it gets even more complicated. I'm thinking of the "anti-vacc" movement as an example.

The new Ken Burns documentary, "Prohibition", on PBS is an able representation of just such a social quandary. It ably demonstrates the unintended consequences of using government, law and democracy to try and force people to do things they don't want to do, "for their own good".

Claire, it's one thing to engage in profit making activity that is environmentally destructive and harms the public health, but can be avoided if one has the wealth and power to do so, protecting ones family in isolated enclaves in pristine areas, (an activity that we see plenty of throughout history and is still going on in massive ways today. And which looks like will be continued for quite some time into the future. More's the pity.) and another to engage in an activity which is purportedly harmful on a global/planetary scale in which there is no escape.

Surely my question, and the very nature of this controversy made that clear. If it didn't, I hope it does now.

So my question stands, what's in it for the perps? Where's the profit? What is the advantage? How are they able to keep them and theirs safe from the terrible damage that they're supposed to wreaking on the rest of us?

I don't see any forthcoming answers to those questions, and without such answers, the whole story makes no sense.

In the various theories of why conspiracy theories arise and flourish, I find the idea that they appeal to those with a need to ascribe some conscious agent to everything that happens, especially threatening / dangerous events and phenomenon, as the basis for why some people, quite a few of them, need to believe that dark, terrible forces are behind major events in the world.

And since I ascribe to a social theory that ascribes a great deal of social causality to non-rational, unconscious and irreducible to the intentional actions of individuals or small subgroups, basically giving authorship to systemic forces beyond human cognition and control. Including the responsibility for much that happens in the world that is destructive and dangerous, to those impersonal forces, so I'm less inclined to look for "The Perps", all the time.

This doesn't mean I don't also hold individuals responsible for actions for which we are truly responsible, within our own ranges and spheres of influence. But given a social epistemology that privileges systemic forces beyond volition, I'm less likely to attribute everything to some secret cabal of dark actors.

Of course, it's a matter of emphasis. I'm always open to proofs which are convincing and seem reliable. I never, say never.

In the case of Chemtrails, I see little to no basis for changing my mind, so far. And many, many reasons to dismiss the claims of the believers, or adherents, as unfounded and stemming from a need to blame somebody, for everything that happens. Whether it's happening, or not...

I am loosely acquainted with someone who is a firm adherent to the chemtrail threat. This person also claims to be sensitive to EMF radiation. They are anti-vacc and have young children. They live somewhere, where they refused WiFi as their access to the internet, and required ground wiring.

Yet they live next to a conventional vineyard, within a few feet. Where pesticides, fungicides and herbicides are used regularly. And they live up a hill from a PG&E transformer complex.

I don't get it. That seems fundamentally irrational. And I completely understand the concept of harm reduction and the cautionary principle. I'm sensitive to petrochemical fumes and used to suffer from "exquisite" allergic rhinitus (massive hay fever, and yes that was literally my diagnosis, exquisite allergic rhinitus). Maybe it's the only place they could find and they're making the best of it. But it still seems contradictory.

I don't discount claims by those who are chemically sensitive, or claim to be sensitive to various invisible energy rays. I myself cannot get a tan, due to my genetic inheritance. And I'm deeply concerned by the massive amounts and combinations of industrial chemicals that industrial civilization has invented and injected into the environment. And "we" continue to do so.

But that's just it. Those things were done to accomplish certain goals, medical, industrial and all commercial. By a system which primarily encourages short sighted goal seeking and has no mechanism, social, political, let alone juridical, to enforce a perspective that takes into account the long term. Let's call it what it is, Capitalism.

What are the goals of Chemtrails? (Yes, I've read the literature.) If it's an "us against them" situation, what are they accomplishing that is so dangerous to the rest of us?

Oh wait, it's secret. And they're EVIL. Never mind!

Just cause our systems are irrational, doesn't mean we have to be. Does it?

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png "Mad" Miles wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
Here's the question I've never seen Chemtrail claimants answer. If there is a vast global conspiracy to spread chemicals in the upper atmosphere for nefarious purposes (Weather Control? Terraforming for the Saurians? Genetic Engineering / Stupefaction of the Masses? Take your pick, there are several other intersecting versions.) why would the elites responsible for them expose themselves and their families to the same chemicals?

---

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png "Mad" Miles wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
So my question stands, what's in it for the perps? Where's the profit? What is the advantage? How are they able to keep them and theirs safe from the terrible damage that they're supposed to wreaking on the rest of us?

I don't see any forthcoming answers to those questions, and without such answers, the whole story makes no sense.

---

Miles, In an attempt to answer your very valid questions :

In the first place, how do we know that the families of the power elite even breathe the same air that the rest of us breathe, every day? Perhaps the children of privilege stay indoors on the days that the chemtrail spraying is going on; having been forewarned of the days when the aerial spraying will take place?

And, if the brew that is being sprayed is occasionally viral or bacteriological junk, the families of the power elite may, for all we know, already be inoculated with antibodies to protect them from the pathogens that are being let loose in the clouds. There's one possibility for you.

I am not fully persuaded that the contents of the Chemtrails is viral or biological junk. Again, that is only one theory; one explanation of what the Chemtrails are. For the sake of this discussion, it would be good if we could get on the same page and at least acknowledge that Chemtrails Are; that they are a recent phenomena - no older than 1984, at the most; and that they are not "contrails," which are ice crystals.

I opened up the website, contrailscience.com that Mark Inman, Sebtown1968 offered. Here is what the webmaster of that site says about himself:

Quote:

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ContrailScience.com is just a place where I write about both contrails and science – which also includes some looking at the “chemtrails” theory, and the pseudoscience associated with it.

My name is Mick West, I’m a private pilot (in training, I have a solo certification, and have flown a 150 mile solo flight). I’ve been training out of Santa Monica airport, so I know the airspace round here. I like writing, and figuring things out. See something odd in the sky? Let me know.

I’m not a scientist, or a meteorologist, but I like to think that what I post is comprised of independently verifiable facts. You can check the facts yourself. If you find ANY error on this site, then let me know and I will issue a correction immediately.

I’m not paid for this. I do not work for anyone in conjunction with this site. I’m just some guy.

---

So much for the scientific credentials of your link, Sebtown1968. This guy, Mick West, maintains that there are no chemtrails at all - & that the word itself is a fallacy - it's all contrails. Such errant non-Science, masquerading as "Science;" such disinformation.

How can you explain 7,290,00 hits on a subject that does not exist - or where the name, the word itself, should not, properly, even exist? This is only one more example of a "contra" in this field, Chemtrails, where there is a vast psy-op [psychological operation] and a minefield of disinformation on all sides, pro and con... Where there is Smoke, there is also Fire.

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Sebtown1968 wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
Real accredited climatologists and atmospheric sciencists have weighed in on this subject for years and have collectively written the subject off as the fodder of "conspiracy theorists." I would conisder them to be somewhat an authority on this subject, wouldnt you think? But, these scientists are quickly criticized for being connected to big corporations or bought off or some other excuse rather than accept their findings and understand that our government isnt always trying to kill us.

---

Here are some credible links on the Subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEtOc2IFO8

https://videos.howstuffworks.com/dis...vers-video.htm

https://www.wat.tv/video/chemtrails-...7z_31wod_.html

https://www.squidoo.com/chemtrailillness

https://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrail...Chemtrails.htm

https://www.panacea-bocaf.org/chemtrails.htm

https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

https://www.californiaskywatch.com/

Mark Walter Evans

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:

And today, out of a clear blue sky this afternoon, it's FOGGY at "sunset" in Sebastopol?!!
I admit I'm new in this area, but it came on so suddenly today, I can't believe it's natural.
Is it?

Rev. Allorrah Be
:waccosun:

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No, no, of course not! We pay the spacing guild to create these conditions using their weather control satellites.

:wink:

-DJ

I think we should talk about this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_c6HsiixFS8

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by daynurse:

Hi,
I'm forwarding this request because I know there are a few people on WACCO with an interest in this subject and possibly some interesting facts for this reporter.
Best,
Peggy
ps I'm not sure from the context what the 'other side' is.

Subject: I wish to conduct a non bias investigation documentary on chem trails.

Just to let you all know I plan to start an investigation non bias investigation on chem trails. Condensation or chemical trails, which one are they? that is the question I will be asking. Any information from other side would be great!

Thanks

Carl Carl Fiske [mailto:[email protected]]

MendoPower Employment Services
Fort Bragg, CA 95437
707-962-9279

---

I've been taking an interest in this subject for several months. Here is a website with a lot of information about this: californiaskywatch.com You're going to find it very disturbing. As a "do-it-yourselfer", look up in the sky and on some days you'll find what look like cloud patterns that take up only a portion of the sky. Normal weather patterns that produce high clouds usually cover hundreds or thousands of square miles in the atmosphere, covering a large portion of the sky. When I see strange patterns in only a portion of the sky, I assume they're chem trails. Normal jet contrails, which are made of water vapor, will dissipate within an hour or so. These chemtrails can last about 20 hours!

Bob Heisler

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

Miles, In an attempt to answer your very valid questions :

In the first place, how do we know that the families of the power elite even breathe the same air that the rest of us breathe, every day? Perhaps the children of privilege stay indoors on the days that the chemtrail spraying is going on; having been forewarned of the days when the aerial spraying will take place?

And, if the brew that is being sprayed is occasionally viral or bacteriological junk, the families of the power elite may, for all we know, already be inoculated with antibodies to protect them from the pathogens that are being let loose in the clouds. There's one possibility for you.

I am not fully persuaded that the contents of the Chemtrails is viral or biological junk. Again, that is only one theory; one explanation of what the Chemtrails are. For the sake of this discussion, it would be good if we could get on the same page and at least acknowledge that Chemtrails Are; that they are a recent phenomena - no older than 1984, at the most; and that they are not "contrails," which are ice crystals.

I opened up the website, contrailscience.com that Mark Inman, Sebtown1968 offered. Here is what the webmaster of that site says about himself:


So much for the scientific credentials of your link, Sebtown1968. This guy, Mick West, maintains that there are no chemtrails at all - & that the word itself is a fallacy - it's all contrails. Such errant non-Science, masquerading as "Science;" such disinformation.

How can you explain 7,290,00 hits on a subject that does not exist - or where the name, the word itself, should not, properly, even exist? This is only one more example of a "contra" in this field, Chemtrails, where there is a vast psy-op [psychological operation] and a minefield of disinformation on all sides, pro and con... Where there is Smoke, there is also Fire.

Here are some credible links on the Subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udEtOc2IFO8

https://videos.howstuffworks.com/dis...vers-video.htm

https://www.wat.tv/video/chemtrails-...7z_31wod_.html

https://www.squidoo.com/chemtrailillness

https://www.willthomas.net/Chemtrail...Chemtrails.htm

https://www.panacea-bocaf.org/chemtrails.htm

https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

https://www.californiaskywatch.com/

Mark Walter Evans

---

:stormcloud:

Thanks for your post Mark.:waccosun:

It must be that the people who do not notice the difference between the contrails we've seen throughout our lives, are very different than the GeoEngineered ones which have been increasing for the last several years; must be victims from some mass hypnosis, or are suffering from nature deficit syndrome. They just don't get out enough to notice what has changed through the Weather Modification program.

Most of the elected officials, current and former water agency executives, and even the climate protection leaders such as Ann Hancock, tell me they know nothing about it, or if they do, (such as, folks like Mark Leno and Gavin Newsom) will not discuss it.

When I started researching this, I found business that do this work in our state, advertising their clients over the past 10 years; this list included PG&E and municipalities. Now days, it's not just about increasing the snow pack for hydro power production; the methods and materials they are using are designed to reflect the sunlight away.

What do the GeoEngineering deniers gain from keeping us in the dark? There are many perilous consequences from trying to outsmart nature.

I noticed a sharp increase in the weather modification activities when Arnold Schwarzenegger was denied getting the water bond on the ballot to build a pipeline for his cronies in the Westlands Water District; the Resnicks. These same folks who are spoiling the native's water supply while profiting from the Fiji Water Co. Now the Resnicks have bought a winery in Sonoma County. Sorry I don't have the name right now; it's one which should be put on the boycott list.

See their connection to Dianne Feinstein here:
https://www.alternet.org/water/14442...wrecking_crew/

Controlling the rain for the water supply of wine grapes is likely another reason it is being funded, now that the State is finally taking charge of the 800 illegal water diversion issues in the Russian River watershed, and many more along the Napa river. (The Bohemian has a recent story on that.)

With all the manipulation of weather going on, it's hard to tell if the recent rain harming this year's grape crop is normal, a result of Geo Enineering gone awry, or a deliberate way to profit from hedging bets on crop failures, or eliminating the glut & competition.

See https://weatherwars.info/ for details on that.

In 2006, the first year I ran for US Senate, and had climate protection a core issue; Congress made climate change a national security issue. This is why the weather modification programs done by the Air Force and Navy can be done is secret, without any environmental impact review.

Here are some more images from Chem Trail on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002298761467

This subject is one of the top 5 most important issues in my platform; how does it rank for you all?

I invite you to see some of the poetry I posted on my 2006 campaign website. www.campaignforpeace.org/CFernald/Poetry.html

In "Listen to the Trees", I wrote about the risks to us all, from dropping depleted uranium bombs in Iraq while the massive dust storms were going on:

The wind blows
The water flows
You do not control the jet stream

Perhaps "they" took that as a challenge.

I took some inspiration for this from a brilliant play by Ben Elton, ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Elton), which I saw in England about 20 years ago, called "Gasping". The premise was that air had become a commodity. I think it's time to turn that one into a feature film.

(Any Investors, Writers, or Producers out there interested? My partners and I are working on real life screenplays to submit as, Chinatown III, Terminator 6, and Ms. Smith goes to Washington.)


Another part of what fueled "Listen to the Trees" in 2006, was that Sudden Oak Death was high on the radar of the media. I had concern for all the possible threats to the health of our tress, which are of course essential for every human life.


This year, I met Rosalind Peterson from California Sky Watch. Here's some of her credentials from their website:


Rosalind Peterson is the California President and Co-Founder of the Agriculture Defense Coalition (ADC), formed in 2006 to protect agricultural crop production from uncontrolled experimental weather modification programs, atmospheric heating and testing programs, and ocean and atmospheric experimental geoengineering programs.


In 1995, Rosalind became a certified U.S.D.A. Farm Service Agency Crop Loss Adjustor working in more than ten counties throughout California. Many crop losses throughout the State can be attributed to weather related causes.
Rosalind earned a BA degree from Sonoma State University in Environmental Studies & Planning (ENSP), with emphasis on agriculture and crop production.


Between 1989 and 1993 Rosalind worked as an Agricultural Technologist for the Mendocino County Department of Agriculture. After leaving Mendocino County she took a position with the USDA Farm Service Agency as a Program Assistant in Mendocino, Sonoma, and the Salinas County Offices.


***


Everyone, please start sky watching and documenting the abnormal clouds which form from these aerial operations. I have some of my own, which I turned into art. Anyone wishing to support my causes is welcome to become a collector; who knows how much it might be worth down the road.


Ignorance is not bliss; it may be fatal.


Patriotically in peace,

Colleen Fernald

:rainbow:

California's Constitutional Candidate for PEACE!
United States Senate 2012
campaignforpeace.org

In the World Watch section of the Sunday, SF Chronicle a few months back, it mentioned that China had announced a successful weather modification program.

Many people know "Cloud Seeding" has been going on for decades, this is no myth or theory. GeoEngineering is taking this to new, very dangerous levels of risk.

It's curious, and disturbing that prominent local business owners, such as Dane Jasper of Sonic, and Mark Inman, formerly, of Taylor Made Coffee; are in the camp of weather modification deniers.

Rainbows...at ground level? This is far more terrifying than anything we've been talking about on this thread. As the person who submitted the video evidence clearly states "This did not exist 20 years ago." If you noticed, her video was filmed and uploaded July 6, 2007. "20 years ago" would put the original creation of this phenomenon to be July 6, 1987. In 1987, people stopped looking at their sprinklers- or the watering of their lawns in general as they were busy being "distracted" with the launch of PowerPoint, Microsoft's O/S2 and IBM's PS2 with the new 3.5 inch floppy diskette.... a convenient launch timing, don't you think? Getting the mainstream all into computers and away from nature when this "phenomenon" started to rear its nefarious head.

:hmmm: What else was going on on July 6, 1987, you might ask?

Aside from weak attempts to distract us with the whole Klaus Barbie trial, where he was sentenced to life in prison for Crimes Against Humanity...There existed a man who was quietly filling the office of Vice President. This man was able to work unchecked, under the radar.... a man who would eventually be (according to one Mark Walter Evans aka "lolchan") behind the implementation of a mass poisoning of the citizens of earth through "chemtrails".

And who was that man? He was none other than.......George H.W. Bush!!!:smkdev:

Ever notice why George W Bush was always "indoors." or "testing his dive tanks" for hours on days when strange cloud patterns dotted the Texas sky? Ever wondered why the "illuminati" always held their "underground" meetings during cloudy days?? Why did the G8 have "inoculation day" when the weather looked just a little off? :hmmm:

Coincidence? I think not!!!

Forget the sky...we really need to be looking downward, answering the $10,000 question that the poster of the video asks: "What is oozing out of our ground??

Sebtown1968
AKA Mark Inman
AKA former owner of Taylor Maid (Not Made) Farms.

Confirmation Bias is a Beeaaattttcccchhhhhh!

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Peace Voyager:

In the World Watch section of the Sunday, SF Chronicle a few months back, it mentioned that China had announced a successful weather modification program.

Many people know "Cloud Seeding" has been going on for decades, this is no myth or theory. GeoEngineering is taking this to new, very dangerous levels of risk.

It's curious, and disturbing that prominent local business owners, such as Dane Jasper of Sonic, and Mark Inman, formerly, of Taylor Made Coffee; are in the camp of weather modification deniers.

---

that's like saying that if you don't believe in chupacabra you're denying that wild animals kill sheep. Is it really true that Dane and Mark deny there's such a thing as weather modification?? I bet they just take issue with the interpretation of what you all seem to think you see in the sky.
of course there's been interest in weather modification for a tremendously long time, and even attempts to implement it. That's only peripherally relevant to the "chemtrail conspiracy".

"Podfish" is very observant......

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Sebtown1968 wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

:hmmm: What else was going on on July 6, 1987, you might ask?

Aside from weak attempts to distract us with the whole Klaus Barbie trial, where he was sentenced to life in prison for Crimes Against Humanity...There existed a man who was quietly filling the office of Vice President. This man was able to work unchecked, under the radar.... a man who would eventually be (according to one Mark Walter Evans aka "lolchan") behind the implementation of a mass poisoning of the citizens of earth through "chemtrails".

And who was that man? He was none other than.......George H.W. Bush!!!:smkdev:

Ever notice why George W Bush was always "indoors." or "testing his dive tanks" for hours on days when strange cloud patterns dotted the Texas sky? Ever wondered why the "illuminati" always held their "underground" meetings during cloudy days?? Why did the G8 have "inoculation day" when the weather looked just a little off? :hmmm:

Coincidence? I think not!!!

---

Look, Mark Inman, I am only a man; but I have eyes in my head, & I am an observer of this phenomenon of Chemtrails - and I can testify that they are Real. I know the difference between Chemtrails and natural Clouds, and Contrails. To discern the difference between these three distinct phenomenal categories is not rocket science. One need not be a Scientist to Process this discernment. In fact, it is easy; and anyone can do it - even yourself, if you choose to let go of Denial, and embrace Reality.

On the other hand, If you want to mock the whole phenomenon, and say that those people are deluded who think they are seeing non-existent "Chemtrails," when, in fact, only Clouds and Contrails are actually Real; then go ahead and mock. =OR= If you just want to bait me, and bring non-sequitors like the "illuminati" into the conversation, then go right ahead.

I, myself, have no personal Knowledge of such things - nor have I ever written a single word, anywhere, ever, to the effect that the so-called "illuminati" are the sinister masterminds behind this technology. Frankly, I think that your mockery does not speak well for your position. For you still have not answered my original Challenge to you:

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Show us some links, please. Name some names of some of these "Real accredited climatologists and atmospheric sciencists" [sic] wouldya? Be specific. We need facts. I agree wholeheartedly that the Subject of Chemtrails is the fodder of plenty of conspiracy theories. In the run of the seven million two hundred and ninety thousand {7,290,000} hits that come up with when one does a Google Search of the word Chemtrails, there is a lot of wacky materiel.

---

I agree with Peace Voyager on this point:

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Peace Voyager wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

It must be that the people who do not notice the difference between the contrails we've seen throughout our lives, are very different than the GeoEngineered ones which have been increasing for the last several years; must be victims from some mass hypnosis, or are suffering from nature deficit syndrome. They just don't get out enough to notice what has changed through the Weather Modification program.

---

But I have never [yet] alleged in print that I "believe" {or "know"} that George H. W. Bush is the dark mastermind behind Chemtrails. Frankly, I do not know who is behind them, or what the purpose[s] of the damned things are. So far, in this thread, I have merely stated a few of the the various opinions that one may find in this field. That is what is known as Reporting. In dealing with the the Subject of the Phenomenology of Chemtrails, there are a lot of opinions... Here follows what I did write. You, the Public, may do the research - and draw your own conclusions - for yourselves.

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

...Chemtrails are generally a low altitude phenomena. Where I live, at fifteen hundred feet altitude, facing the Ridge that is the Napa County line, the Chemtrails that are laid above the Ridge on most mornings appear to be at about five to six thousand feet in altitude - too low for Ice crystals to form from the vapor trail of a Jet engine.

The shiny white lines that are emitted out of the belly of the C-100's that fly out of Edwards Air Force base, soon fan into clouds, as the wind blows them eastward across the Napa valley. By the time they are over the Central Valley, they actually look like clouds. From where I live, I have watched part of this Process unfold; many, many mornings.

Google search of Chemtrails Edwards Air Force base


Also – and this is very important - there were no Chemtrails before the Year 1989; the first year that the George H.W. Bush was in Office. You can confirm that here if you choose:

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chemtrails%2C+1989&hl=en&num=100&lr=&ft=i&cr=&safe=images


Some websites maintain that the Bush Family have a financial interest in the production of this aerial phenomena: Google Search : “Bush Crime Family”, Chemtrails ,


Some maintain that the purpose of the Chemtrails is for population reduction – the genocide of “useless eaters.”

939,000


That it is a form of biological warfare :

240,000


That it is a Project connected with HAARP :

2,110,000


And, some maintain, All the fuss is about nothing more than Weather Modification:

543,000

One thing for sure: There are now seven million two hundred ninety thousand (7,290,000) hits that come up when you Google the word Chemtrails at this time; October 2, 2011. That’s a lot of hits. I would suggest that there is something more happening here than just a simple “Popular Delusion” or that ol' “Madness of Crowds.” Where there is that much “smoke,”there is generally “fire” as well.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Chemt...r=&safe=images
7,290,000

- Mark Walter Evans -

---

Mr. Mark Walter Evans....

What you are doing is far from "Reporting." It is fear mongering. You are merely linking sources from dubious websites that draw wild conclusions form anecodotal evidence. What I am simply doing is calling "Bulls%&t" and attempting to balance this discussion with a sprinkling of sanity. Others on this thread have made similar attempts. Not to change your mind- as it is already convinced, but to offer a balanced discussion for others who stumble on this thread and have not formed opinions on this matter.

Look, Mark Inman, I am only a man; but I have eyes in my head, & I am an observer of this phenomenon of Chemtrails - and I can testify that they are Real. I know the difference between Chemtrails and natural Clouds, and Contrails. To discern the difference between these three distinct phenomenal categories is not rocket science. One need not be a Scientist to Process this discernment. In fact, it is easy; and anyone can do it - even yourself, if you choose to let go of Denial, and embrace Reality.

Having eyes in your head and being an "observer" (whatever that means) is a straw dog arguement. You see it with your eyes-therefore it is real. Others that dont believe your words are in denial. Well I can counter that with:

YOU have no direct proof of anything. YOU are not a scientist or a climatoligist- who have described the phenomenon of "Chemtrails" using their scientific training numerous times. You are a lay person on this subject, suffering from the trappings of any lay person. Everything you "Know" comes from sources that have yet to be verified or proven. For your theory to hold any tangeable weight, it is up to YOU to prove it. My "Denial" comes from the same place my "Denial" of Bigfoot comes from- the lack of any hard evidence.

BTW- When you type in "Bigfoot" on Google you come up with 23,100,000 hits. When you type in "Chupacabra" you get 5,030,000 hits. "Boogeyman" 5,020,000 hits. Your constant reference of 8+ million hits = Truth is silly.

And what version of "Chemtrails" are you arguing for today, as it seems the definition slips and slides on this thread:

1. Weather Modification (increasing rainfall)
2. Reflecting Sun's to mitigate global warming.
3. Outright poisioning people for nefarious purposes

Let's take a look at the results of your "Reporting," shall we?
Some maintain that the purpose of the Chemtrails is for population reduction – the genocide of “useless eaters.”

Aside from the utter foolishness of the above premise, when one clicks through, you read nothing but anecdotal evidence from a past, past director of the LA FBI office who is recounting a secondhand story from a "Drunk" pilot who was trying to pick up women at a bar. When he failed to convine these women he was Daniel Craig or Sean Connery, he finally "Ante's up" and spills the beans on his supposed "Chemtrail" missions.....and this is some sort of proof to you?

This story is coming from a retiree who is convinced that the death of Sonny Bono, the Oklahoma City Bombing and Jeffery MacDonald case were caused by "High Level Government Officials" and "Satanic Cults."

Really? This is your "Reporting."

This is utter nonsence. It smells of the same insane ramblings as this:

https://www.lennonmurdertruth.com/

Which is a site full of "Evidence" and "Facts" as well. This does not make it credible.

Again, the burden of proof of "Chemtrails" is on you. And- again- from ANY credible news source- which you have utterly failed to bring to the table.

Mark Inman

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png "Mad" Miles wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

The believers will believe, no matter what they're presented with. The skeptics will choose not to believe (or I prefer, be convinced, belief itself is a dangerous and problematic issue) unless and until clear and irrefutable evidence from multiple and competing sources is provided, if then. And a whole range of opinion will exist in between and outside of such polar opposite positions.

Ultimately we're all entitled to think whatever we choose. What we're not entitled to do, is enforce our beliefs by forcing them on others. Even if it's for their own good.

---

Good point, Miles; we do agree about that; emphatically. Thank You...

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.pngSebtown1968 wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Let's take a look at the results of your "Reporting," shall we?
Some maintain that the purpose of the Chemtrails is for population reduction – the genocide of “useless eaters.”

Aside from the utter foolishness of the above premise, when one clicks through, you read nothing but anecdotal evidence from a past, past director of the LA FBI office who is recounting a secondhand story from a "Drunk" pilot who was trying to pick up women at a bar. When he failed to convine these women he was Daniel Craig or Sean Connery, he finally "Ante's up" and spills the beans on his supposed "Chemtrail" missions.....and this is some sort of proof to you?

This story is coming from a retiree who is convinced that the death of Sonny Bono, the Oklahoma City Bombing and Jeffery MacDonald case were caused by "High Level Government Officials" and "Satanic Cults."

---

"...When one clicks through," there are over eight hundred thousand hits on the confluence of the words genocide and chemtrails. To suggest that "you read nothing but anecdotal evidence from a past, past director of the LA FBI office who is recounting a secondhand story from a "Drunk" pilot," just shows that you, Sebtown1968, have not done any serious homework on the link. In point of fact you only "clicked through" the first ten items. Google (which was subjected to a hostile takeover by the Central Intelligence Agency, no later than 2007) conveniently placed those crazy, and disinformation-laden links at the top of the pile, in order to show people who suffer from ADD, and do not have either the patience or the inclination to dig deeper, that the whole subject is just wacky.

I like the way Paul Simon put it:

"A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."

And, to be frank, I do not wish to be categorized or stereo-cast as a "believer" in Chemtrails.
I only claim to be an "observer" of them. I have seen them; many thousands of them; since I first started taking notice of this then-novel phenomena, in the 1990's.

'Tis true; I am not a scientist; but neither am I a fool, a simpleton, or your garden-variety "conspiracy theory" junky. I have eyes, and I see with them. I observe the heavens, and the changes that take place in the field of heaven, over Time.

Unlike "Contrails," Chemtrails are not - generally - a high altitude phenomena. The Jets that lay these trails in the atmosphere are not cargo or passenger planes en route from cities like Chicago and Denver, flying to destinations like San Francisco and Portland, on routine, commercial business...

Typically, these planes fly out of Air Force bases - and, it does appear { i.e. all of the evidence indicates} - that these planes are on one mission only: laying Chemtrails in the sky.

And to Dane Jasper, Miles Mendenhall, and Mark Inman, I say: Open your eyes; you might be surprised at what you see - some of it is definitely Loopy; to say the least:

Mark Walter Evans

Words Have Definite Meaning

“ Observer ”

from the Oxford English Dictionary :

observer, n.

Pronunciation:
Brit. /_b_z__v_/ , U.S. /_b_z_rv_r/
Forms: 15 observar, 15–16 obseruer, 15– observer, 16 observor.
Etymology: < observe v. + -er suffix1. Compare Middle French observeur ...

1. a. An adherent or follower of a law, religion, custom, ritual, method, etc. Usu. with of.
1550—1991


†b. A person showing respect, deference, or dutiful attention; an obsequious follower. Obs.
1601—a1640

2. a. A person who watches or takes notice; a spectator.
Freq. in titles of newspapers; cf. observator n. 3b.
1555—1989


b. A person who watches for and interprets omens. Cf. observe v. 6b. rare after 17th cent.
1588—1971

c. A person who observes in an official capacity without participating; spec. (a) one who attends a conference, inquiry, etc., to note the proceedings; (b) one posted to an area of conflict to monitor events, supervise a ceasefire, etc.; freq. attrib. in observer force, etc.
1925—2001

3. a. A person who observes objects or phenomena scientifically; a person who makes scientific observations; such a person (real or hypothetical) regarded as having a particular viewpoint or effect. Also: a person in charge of an observatory.
a1631—1993


b. Mil. A person responsible for observation; spec. (a) a person carried in an aeroplane, or (formerly) in a balloon, to observe enemy positions, direct ground forces, etc.; (b) a member of an artillery unit responsible for identifying targets and watching and directing fire; (c) a person trained to keep watch for and identify incoming aircraft, missiles, etc., as a safeguard against enemy air attack. Freq. attrib.
1870—1990

†4. A person who makes a verbal observation or remark. Obs.
1724—1724

Compounds
Used attrib. with reference to the effect of subjective factors on the accuracy or veracity of scientific observations.
1959—1991

Scientists - And Others - Expose Chemtrail Agenda :

Dr. Michael Castle : https://bariumblues.com/methodic_dem...ural_earth.htm

Lauren Moret :
See Search results here.


Evergreen Aviation : https://coupmedia.org/arial-spraying...with-usaf-1401

Weather Modification Companies in operation today inside the USA: https://www.wtwma.com

Weather Mitigation Research and Development Policy Authorization Act of 2009 : https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-60

A.C. Griffith on Project Cloverleaf - (Series with Joyce Riley, Captain in the United States Air Force and flew on C-130 missions in support of Operation Desert Storm, a well known nurse, advocate for soldiers with Gulf War Syndrome and who had it herself) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4c0...eature=related

North American Weather Modification council :
https://www.naiwmc.org/

Owning the weather by 2025 (by US Airforce Col, Ltn, and Majors
https://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

I'll just leave this here.

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/jet_fuel.png

Ah so; One Picture says more than one thousand words:

And if one picture is worth more
that one thousand words;
What is the worth of fourteen pictures ?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

And if one picture is worth more
that ten thousand words;
What is the worth of fourteen pictures ?

---

Zero.

Posting random pictures of jet airliner condensation trails doesn't mean anything.

A suggestion: If you see a jet leaving behind a contrail, and you think it might be a sinister "chemtrail", just use FlightAware and look it up. From the location overhead and the direction of travel, you can identify the flight on the map.

Click one of the little airplanes to look up the call sign, source and destination, plane make and model and more. Heck, you can even see the range of prices that the passengers paid for their seats. If you see a sinister one, you can view it's past and scheduled future flights, and track it as it passes overhead again tomorrow.

Perhaps this resource for factual input might help assuage your confusion.

For our region, start here:
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KSTS

-DJ

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by danejasper:

A suggestion: If you see a jet leaving behind a contrail, and you think it might be a sinister "chemtrail", just use FlightAware and look it up. From the location overhead and the direction of travel, you can identify the flight on the map.

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that just means the airlines are complicit...

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Dane Jasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
Zero.

Posting random pictures of jet airliner condensation trails doesn't mean anything .

---

Excuse me, Dane, but these photographs, taken by a friend with a digital camera from my deck two weeks ago, were not "random pictures of jet airliner condensation trails." And for several reasons:

In the first place, these photographs were taken in a Series; admittedly without a tripod, nevertheless, in the manner of time-lapse photography, about two minutes apart. Thus, they are not "random" at all. Furthermore, the jets which were laying these trails in the sky, on a warm day, at a relatively low altitude, towards the end of Indian Summer, were not your everyday average "jet airliners," either.

Jet airliners - which are passenger planes, and fly from one destination to another - are engaged in business. Jet airliners do not fly back and forth, and turn around, again and again, leaving "vapor trails" that fan into faux clouds. But the planes which produced these linear, wispy, false clouds the day these pictures were taken were doing just that...

And otherwise, it was - or would have been - a completely cloudless day. As it developed, the whole eastern sky, above the county line, became covered with a bank of clouds that might appear, to the untrained eye - or those who choose to be in denial of this phenomenon - as either Cirrus, or Nimbus, clouds. But such clouds are too low in altitude to be Cirrus clouds. Also, unlike Nimbus clouds; these are clouds without rain.

Indeed, clouds that are emitted out of the belly of C-100's are faux clouds - false clouds - just as phony as a three-dollar bill, or fast food from MacDonalds or Burger King. Lawsuits, anyone?

Look : you don't have to believe me; and those of you who find this Subject to be frightening =OR= disturbing to your comfort-zone, can find at least a dozen reasons to disbelieve my witness; I am sure...

Nevertheless, as I wrote earlier in this thread, I have seen thousands of these false clouds, since I became aware of the phenomenon of chemtrails back in the 1990's. And you have, too. All of you have; that is, if you actually look up. But, as Bob Dylan moaned, long ago:

"How many times must a man look up, before he can see the sky?"

And, as Solomon also intoned :

"He who observes the wind shall not sow;
and he that regards the clouds shall not reap."

to which I would add the corollary,

"He who spends too much time in front
of computer screen {or in commuter traffic}
shall not find time to observe the clouds."


Cirrusly,
& Seriously,

Mark Walter Evans

p.s.,

Here's a tidbit;
a Lecture,
by a cogent Woman:
Rosalind Peterson

This brief video may help explain condensation trails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9j-_1haGk

When fuel is burned, you get a few things - CO2, H2O (water), and carbon particulate. The carbon particulate is a great spot for water droplets to precipitate, and the water itself is a bit like when you exhale on a cold day - you get a bit of "steam" on a cold morning.

A jet engine burns lots of fuel, putting out water vapor in a high-altitude environment that might be -30 to -50 degrees. This is a prime environment for a sort of steam trail.

Now - why do they sometimes form in parallel lines, or even a grid pattern? Commercial jets generally travel along jetways, paths between intersections as dictated by air traffic control. At the same time, there is wind - so imagine a jet moving from S to N (say, LA to Sacramento) with wind from the West. As each jet flies by, it leaves a contrail, which slowly moves toward the East with the wind. A bit later, another jet flies the same jetway, leaving a parallel track, a bit Westward of the previous one. Repeat, and you can end up with parallel tracks.

A grid is even possible, if for example wind is from a 45 degree angle to two jetways which intersect at a 90 degree angle. So, imagine a jetway running N-S, and one E-W, while you've got wind from the NW (45 degrees to the two jetways). As each jet goes by, it leaves a contrail which moves toward the SE. If there are more than one in each jetway, you can end up with condensation trails that intersect at 90 degree angles, and which are in parallel tracks, forming a sort of "grid" pattern.

Contrails are no mystery - it's really basic science which anyone who's exhaled on a cold morning can understand. And no, it's not weather control or government mind control. "Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

-DJ

Dane,

I really appreciate that you take the time to explain these things to these loopy folks who have no common sense and can’t seem to engage in basic rational thinking. I just don’t have the patience.

After your last e-mail I tried talking some sense into a few people who had just seen the movie “Thrive” and were telling me all about aliens and how they’ve affected Earth’s history and the “galactic perspective”. My attempts to talk some common sense to them were met with extreme hostility. They said I was “close-minded”. (Well, I am very open-minded to evidence.)

I am less and less thinking it is all right for people to spout utter nonsense and woo-woo and stupid conspiracy theories when we face so many real problems that need all of our energy and focus such as catastrophic climate change and the destruction of American democracy by gigantic corporations and you know the rest. Only rational thinking can ever hope to solve these problems, not nutjob hysteria or my-God-is-stronger-than-your-God stuff. (Have you listened to Caroline Casey lately--- she literally bemoans the “reality police”.)

I almost wonder whether we need to form some sort of Rational Thinking Squads to challenge this growing anti-enlightenment, anti-rationality culture and say it’s just not alright.

Anyway, just want to say that I appreciate that you take the time and make the effort to respond to these folks. I just get frustrated and disgusted.

Best,

Philip Tymon

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by danejasper:

This brief video may help explain condensation trails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9j-_1haGk

When fuel is burned, you get a few things - CO2, H2O (water), and carbon particulate. The carbon particulate is a great spot for water droplets to precipitate, and the water itself is a bit like when you exhale on a cold day - you get a bit of "steam" on a cold morning.

A jet engine burns lots of fuel, putting out water vapor in a high-altitude environment that might be -30 to -50 degrees. This is a prime environment for a sort of steam trail.

Now - why do they sometimes form in parallel lines, or even a grid pattern? Commercial jets generally travel along jetways, paths between intersections as dictated by air traffic control. At the same time, there is wind - so imagine a jet moving from S to N (say, LA to Sacramento) with wind from the West. As each jet flies by, it leaves a contrail, which slowly moves toward the East with the wind. A bit later, another jet flies the same jetway, leaving a parallel track, a bit Westward of the previous one. Repeat, and you can end up with parallel tracks.

A grid is even possible, if for example wind is from a 45 degree angle to two jetways which intersect at a 90 degree angle. So, imagine a jetway running N-S, and one E-W, while you've got wind from the NW (45 degrees to the two jetways). As each jet goes by, it leaves a contrail which moves toward the SE. If there are more than one in each jetway, you can end up with condensation trails that intersect at 90 degree angles, and which are in parallel tracks, forming a sort of "grid" pattern.

Contrails are no mystery - it's really basic science which anyone who's exhaled on a cold morning can understand. And no, it's not weather control or government mind control. "Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

-DJ

---

Hey, phltymon, you sound like someone who would appreciate my monthly WaccoBB column "The Gospel According to Dixon", wherein I attempt to inoculate the Wacco community with an appreciation for rationality/critical thinking, etc. If you haven't seen it yet, check it out. Ten installments have been published so far, with the eleventh coming out shortly. Links to them can be found here. I look forward to getting your feedback on my effort to increase rationality in our community.

As someone who has a curious attitude and has always appreciated the process of scientific inquiry, I have yet to hear or read a satisfactory explanation of my contrail observations. The video link demonstrates how variations in atmospheric movement and stability might effect lingering contrails. I have wondered why they linger in the first place. They always quickly dissipated. Then some started lingering . . . I observed this maybe 12 years ago.
I have heard that we may be seeing these contrails linger because a large volume of moisture has been introduce into altitudes where it would had never before been introduced, due to heavy air traffic in recent decades. The moisture-saturated air slows the dissipation process. This explanation may explain why I have seen lingering contrails in the last decade, when I did not observe them before.

And yet . . . None of the above explains an observation I made a few years ago. While I am not out combing the net for explanations, nor am I prone to conspiracy theories, I am still curious. Can someone explain this:

I watched an commercial airline-sized plane traverse the sky and produce a lingering contrail. Another similar sized plane crossed the sky at the same time and passed through the lingering contrail at a perpendicular angle. This passage cut a path through the lingering contrail and made some fun swirls. (there is much beauty to observe in the sky!) The second plane was at a close enough altitude to the first plane that it sliced a clean swath through the first plane's lingering contrail, but the second plane left a contrail that evaporated quickly. In addition, a plane was flying at a much higher altitude (relative to the others) at the same time and it's contrail dissipated quickly.

Why did that one contrail linger?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by danejasper:

This brief video may help explain condensation trails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9j-_1haGk

Contrails are no mystery - it's really basic science which anyone who's exhaled on a cold morning can understand. And no, it's not weather control or government mind control. "Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

-DJ

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:

...Why did that one contrail linger?

---

several possible answers:
1) there are differences in the aerodynamics of the two planes that affect the air, and thus the condensation, in their wakes
2) there are differences in the exhaust gasses coming out of the engines (the engines might be different, the fuels might be different)
3) the planes may be close enough in altitude that their wakes interact (swirling one) but far apart enough that the gasses cause different visual trails (thinner or drier or cooler air behind one of them)
4) secret chemicals are being emitted by one or both
5) invisible sky-creatures are following one of them, breathing in the gasses and eliminating them from the atmosphere
6) invisible sky-creatures are following one of them, and you're see the effects of its last meal
7) the trails behind them are oriented differently and because they act as polarized light filters, the effects are different when the plane goes in a different direction
8) the visual effects are different because the perspective of the observer is different; if the trail crosses the field of view it looks thinner than if it's perpendicular

Some of the above sound scientific but actually aren't; some sound imaginary but can't be proven false. The planes are really far away, there are tremendous limitations to the quality of observations made from the ground, and it's essentially impossible to collect any data other than its visual effects. You can't tell what chemicals were there before the plane passed by, much less what chemicals are there afterward. You can't tell what temperature or moisture is or was. So it's all just fun speculation. There really is no reason it can't be some chemical being disbursed, but there's really no evidence to support that it might be.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

several possible answers:
3) the planes may be close enough in altitude that their wakes interact (swirling one) but far apart enough that the gasses cause different visual trails (thinner or drier or cooler air behind one of them)

---

As a pilot, I can comment on this one a bit. When large jets travel, their "wake" is a sort of downdraft, which moves down and back. (Small planes can be tossed about violently, so you should always pass a large jet's wake well above if you are behind!)

The smaller the jet, the less downdraft, and the smaller the wake. So, a smaller jet could pass by at 26,000ft, where an atmospheric layer was conducive to a contrail, then for example a larger one might cross at 29,000ft - 3,000ft above, where for example an atmospheric layer might be less prone to contrail formation, but the larger jet's downdraft could disturb the smaller jet's contrail. This would result in something like what the poster described; a contrail disturbed by the passage of another jet, which itself did not leave a contrail.

Thinking of it another way, why do clouds often form at one elevation and not another? They have a "bottom" (which pilots call a "ceiling", as it would be if you flew under it) and a "top" (which pilots would say as "tops at 25,000ft", as in what altitude you must climb to get over the cloud and into clear air.)

In other words, why does a cloud not go from ground level to the top of the atmosphere? The reason is temperatures and moisture levels at various altitudes. Between the "ceiling" and the "tops" (inside the cloud), conditions are right for cloud formation. Below and above, they're not. It might be too warm (warm air can hold more moisture), or too dry. Temperature as you climb normally "lapses" (declines), but you can also have an inversion, where warm air is over cold. There's a ton of complexity in the behavior of the atmosphere, which is why the weather man is so often wrong.

Read up on "dew point" for more on the topic of atmospheric saturation and temperature. This is key to contrail formation; if the air is near the dew point (saturation for a given temperature), the additional moisture of the jet exhaust will result in a contrail.

-Dane

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

several possible answers:
There really is no reason it can't be some chemical being disbursed, but there's really no evidence to support that it might be.

---

I agree . . . interesting stuff to ponder once in a while. It sure would be great to have enough resources to test things out for myself and possibly answer my own questions. In the mean time the daily tasks of sheltering, feeding, clothing and transporting a family fill most of my thoughts.

: )

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by danejasper:

Read up on "dew point" for more on the topic of atmospheric saturation and temperature. This is key to contrail formation; if the air is near the dew point (saturation for a given temperature), the additional moisture of the jet exhaust will result in a contrail.

-Dane

---

Thanks. I am sure this information will help others who haven't learned about atmospheric variations, dew point, temperature, wind, etc. I tried to keep my post as short as possible, therefore I did not include my familiarity with inversion layers, how our weather systems work, etc. I also realize that it is hard to trust that I have a good observational sense of altitude. This is something that could actually be tested if we can find some time. (after the New Year, please)

Of course, I could be wrong, but what I observed did not look like a downdraft slicing the lingering contrail. I've seen that happen. The path-clearing happened immediately, starting with the nose of the aircraft. There was no delay. Not even a minuscule delay, which is what I see when planes fly close to a contrail. It was also a clean slice. The swirling happened in the wake of the plane, after the plane made a clear cut across the trail.

I know atmospheric layering is pretty distinct. I've walked through an inversion layer while hiking downhill. (fun!) The change is almost immediate. Maybe these aircraft had only a 20 foot difference in altitude and were in completely different atmospheric zones?

As a pilot, have you noticed a difference in contrails over the last couple decades?

Why is it that folks like Dane J and Mark I are so quick to write this off?

Just so disconnected to nature you don't notice what's different in today's sky, vs the ones from before the last decade; you are afraid to learn the truth; or you know the truth, and you are one of the ones working to cover it up?

State Senator Leno knows it's real but won't talk; Tom Roth, who used to work for Congresswoman Woolsey, and now Noreen Evans, also knows but won't say much.

They aren't just using silver iodide; they also use vast amounts of aluminum and boron in GeoEngineering.

What I have noticed, besides how much weather modification has escalated ever since the last Governor did not get the water bond he wanted; is that the earthworms, which have always come out when it rains here at my Sebastopol condo, are nowhere to be seen this year.

If the earthworms are killed off, our soils will not get aerated and fertilized. Do you understand the consequences of that!?

When I told this to someone at the last Farmer's market, they just made fun of me.

Now along with the bees in peril; I'm very concerned about our species; especially with so many so fast to insult the messengers regarding the causes.

This was in Saturday's Press Democrat:

Santa Barbara County to try cloud seeding

The Associated Press
Posted: 11/25/2011 10:57:10 AM PST
Updated: 11/25/2011 10:57:10 AM PST


SANTA BARBARA, Calif.—Santa Barbara County has plans to begin cloud seeding over the next five years in an effort to replenish local watersheds.

Santa Barbara County Water Agency manager Matt Naftaly tells the San Luis Obispo Tribune (https://bit.ly/s8oAuR) that they will use planes to disperse silver iodide vapor into the atmosphere during winter storms to promote the formation of raindrops.

Naftaly says cloud seeding can increase rainfall by as much as 20 percent. The goal is to increase rainfall in local watersheds, but portions of San Luis Obispo County could also be affected.
The cloud seeding program costs about $300,000 a year and is paid for by the Santa Barbara County Water Agency and the various water districts that would benefit from it.
———
Information from: The Tribune, https://www.sanluisobispo.com

I'm glad that Dane and Peter both gave detailed answers so I wouldn't have to. So I'll just add two things:

1. You can't accurately "eyeball" stuff that's happening thousands of feet away in the sky. The human eye just is not designed to do it-- you are trying to interpret what is, essentially, a two-dimensional projection back into it's three dimensional reality, but our eyes are not engineered to do that accurately. As a result, people often think they see something of a certain size or distance in the sky, but they are often wrong. (A related phenomenon is observing the size of the moon at the horizon and when it is directly overhead--- it looks huge on the horizon and much smaller directly overhead. Do we attribute this to aliens or the government or the Illuminati manipulating the size of the Moon for nefarious purposes or the more common sense explanation that our eye/brain connection it simply not equipped to measure the size of the Moon accurately because it is too far away and so it misinterprets what it is seeing?)

2. My first housemate in Sonoma county was also the first licensed hot-air balloon pilot in the county. I crewed for him on a number of occasions and observed how he did things. Before launching the large hot-air balloon, he would send up a small party-sized balloon and carefully watch it. At various altitudes the wind would be blowing in different directions. Sometimes an altitude shift of just 50 or 100 feet would produce a dramatic shift in wind direction and/or speed. I got a sense for the vagaries of the wind that the average person may not have. And this was at 6 am in the morning when the air is relatively stable (one reason balloonists launch so early). Later in the day, the winds are much more chaotic and unstable.

So when you saw a plane "intersect" another plane's contrail, even if it was just a hundred or so feet above or below, it could be in a significantly different wind environment.

Or it could be a huge, secret government conspiracy (being conducted right in front of us, so we can all see it) for who-knows- what-nefarious secret government reasons. I'm sure that Dick Cheney and Michelle Obama are right now toasting their success at fooling all of us.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:

I agree . . . interesting stuff to ponder once in a while. It sure would be great to have enough resources to test things out for myself and possibly answer my own questions. In the mean time the daily tasks of sheltering, feeding, clothing and transporting a family fill most of my thoughts.

: )

---

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by phltymon:

Dane,

I really appreciate that you take the time to explain these things to these loopy folks who have no common sense and can’t seem to engage in basic rational thinking. I just don’t have the patience.

After your last e-mail I tried talking some sense into a few people who had just seen the movie “Thrive” and were telling me all about aliens and how they’ve affected Earth’s history and the “galactic perspective”. My attempts to talk some common sense to them were met with extreme hostility. They said I was “close-minded”. (Well, I am very open-minded to evidence.)

I am less and less thinking it is all right for people to spout utter nonsense and woo-woo and stupid conspiracy theories when we face so many real problems that need all of our energy and focus such as catastrophic climate change and the destruction of American democracy by gigantic corporations and you know the rest. Only rational thinking can ever hope to solve these problems, not nutjob hysteria or my-God-is-stronger-than-your-God stuff. (Have you listened to Caroline Casey lately--- she literally bemoans the “reality police”.)

I almost wonder whether we need to form some sort of Rational Thinking Squads to challenge this growing anti-enlightenment, anti-rationality culture and say it’s just not alright.

Anyway, just want to say that I appreciate that you take the time and make the effort to respond to these folks. I just get frustrated and disgusted.

Best,

Philip Tymon

---

For someone like you, as I remember, who works for an important organic farm operation and educational facility (OAEC); I am very dismayed Phil, at your lack of concern.

Most adults know why a jet makes a vapor trail, no science lesson needed.

Why you and the others cannot see the difference from a vapor trail which dissipates, and one that grows into an enormous sky cover is disturbing. Why such abnormal clouds and sky white outs taking place in Sonoma County almost daily, with photos of the same from around the world, would not wake up your curiosity, is quite alarming.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:

Of course, I could be wrong, but what I observed did not look like a downdraft slicing the lingering contrail. I've seen that happen. The path-clearing happened immediately, starting with the nose of the aircraft. There was no delay. Not even a minuscule delay, which is what I see when planes fly close to a contrail. It was also a clean slice. The swirling happened in the wake of the plane, after the plane made a clear cut across the trail.

I know atmospheric layering is pretty distinct. I've walked through an inversion layer while hiking downhill. (fun!) The change is almost immediate. Maybe these aircraft had only a 20 foot difference in altitude and were in completely different atmospheric zones?

As a pilot, have you noticed a difference in contrails over the last couple decades?

---

The wake of a plane moves down and back - so if in fact the nose of the new plan cut right through the contrail of the plane that left the contrail, the first plane would have been higher than the one that subsequently intersected it. The second plane's wake will be behind and below it, thousands of feet lower.

Keep in mind also the difference between the size of engines, number of engines, level of thrust, etc - all influence the amount of water vapor in the exhaust.

Regarding your last question, no, the only difference is that there is more air traffic, more people travelling, and thus more contrails.

It's neat to be up there, particularly around the Bay Area, as they descend in to SFO and OAK. You can see the big "heavies" and interact with them (from a respectful distance) as they come in to the airports. There are no C-130s trailing plumes of chemicals, just lots of passenger jets.

-Dane

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png This brief video may help explain condensation trails: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW9j-_1haGkhttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png

When fuel is burned, you get a few things - CO2, H2O (water), and carbon particulate. The carbon particulate is a great spot for water droplets to precipitate, and the water itself is a bit like when you exhale on a cold day - you get a bit of "steam" on a cold morning.

A jet engine burns lots of fuel, putting out water vapor in a high-altitude environment that might be -30 to -50 degrees. This is a prime environment for a sort of steam trail.

Now - why do they sometimes form in parallel lines, or even a grid pattern? Commercial jets generally travel along jetways, paths between intersections as dictated by air traffic control. At the same time, there is wind - so imagine a jet moving from S to N (say, LA to Sacramento) with wind from the West. As each jet flies by, it leaves a contrail, which slowly moves toward the East with the wind. A bit later, another jet flies the same jetway, leaving a parallel track, a bit Westward of the previous one. Repeat, and you can end up with parallel tracks.

A grid is even possible, if for example wind is from a 45 degree angle to two jetways which intersect at a 90 degree angle. So, imagine a jetway running N-S, and one E-W, while you've got wind from the NW (45 degrees to the two jetways). As each jet goes by, it leaves a contrail which moves toward the SE. If there are more than one in each jetway, you can end up with condensation trails that intersect at 90 degree angles, and which are in parallel tracks, forming a sort of "grid" pattern.

Contrails are no mystery - it's really basic science which anyone who's exhaled on a cold morning can understand. And no, it's not weather control or government mind control. "Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

-DJ

---

So, Dane, could you please explain { from the following pictures} what the planes which laid these "contrails" which fanned out into cloud formations were doing? Because they sure weren't flying from LA to Sacramento.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image.../paperclip.png Attached Thumbnails (click for larger view)

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attac...1&d=1318502550 https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attac...1&d=1321004577

I think people would find, were they to take the time to actually observe the sky for a few hours on a day when chemtrails are being laid, that it is the same planes that are flying back and forth, and in criss-cross patterns. Sometimes, they do circles and loops, as these photographs demonstrate.

Furthermore, if you take the time to take your binoculars out of their case, and use them, you will also observe - in most cases - that the jets that are leaving the trails that fan out into clouds are not passenger planes. Generally, they are C-100's and the like: Air Force, cargo planes.

More:

Catherine Austin-Fitts on the subject of Chemtrails:

https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Rosalind Peterson, on the subject of Chemtrailshttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png

Would you guys care to comment on what these two wise women have to say ?
=OR=
Are they just "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, "loopy" - and the like?

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

"Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

---

Someone?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

So, Dane, could you please explain { from the following pictures} what the planes which laid these "contrails" which fanned out into cloud formations were doing? Because they sure weren't flying from LA to Sacramento.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image.../paperclip.png Attached Thumbnails (click for larger view)

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attac...1&d=1318502550 https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attac...1&d=1321004577

I think people would find, were they to take the time to actually observe the[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3] sky for a few hours on a day when chemtrails are being laid, that it is the same planes that are flying back and forth, and in criss-cross patterns. Sometimes, they do circles and loops, as these photographs demonstrate.

---

They are in a hold. When traffic is inbound to an airport that is busy, air traffic control will put them in a hold somewhere to space things out. These can be part of a published instrument approach, or in arbitrary locations. Often you'll see jets holding over waypoints such as VORs.

If you'd like to learn more about the skies above you, and the navigation that pilots are engaged in, you can obtain a map of the region by visiting the fixed base operator at the Santa Rosa airport, and buy a Northern California sectional map. They are about $7 for a really pretty and colorful paper map.

Here's an image of a sectional map, showing a VOR in the middle; it's the triangular thing with the circle around it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VOR_on_sectional.gif

There is a VOR at most airports, plus various waypoints around the country. Locally for example at Pt. Reyes there is one, so sometimes you'll see jets holding over there prior to heading in to SFO or OAK.

ATC can have you hold over pretty much any waypoint, but generally it's an airport or VOR as that's easiest.

These two pages will make it clearer:

IFR Holding Pattern Entries Made Simple
How to...fly a hold

Your pic on the right is a textbook hold, you'll note the "racetrack" pattern. The one on the left is a poorly executed hold entry; I think he should have entered teardrop, but ended up having to do a 360 degree turn instead.

Regarding your assertion that the planes leaving "chemtrails" are military planes, I can assure you that I've seen passenger jets AND military jets leaving contrails. Just because condensation forms due to exhaust coming out the back-end of a C-130 doesn't mean it's any different than coming out of a 747 with the same sort of engine. They're jets dude, and they output moist and sooty jet exhaust!

(Now, we SHOULD be complaining about the CO2, global warming, etc - that's real science and a legitimate threat to us all, not mind-control woo-woo!)

Bonus points - I just found the very image you posted on the right above, here: https://contrailscience.com/racetrack-contrails/ - where the poster also explains holds. Doh!

Wow, NASA even offers a "contrails forecast", using data about the temperature and water content at various altitudes: https://www-angler.larc.nasa.gov/cgi...33&cmd=latest#

Side note: ever seen "Pushing Tin"? Neat movie.

-Dane

Thank you, Dane, for your swift, and lengthy answer. Next Question: Can you explain the Phenomenon of why the word "Chemtrails" has come into existence in the last twenty years or so, other than attributing it to the category of "Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds?"

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

"Chemtrails" are just a boogie-man, made up by someone who doesn't understand science and aviation.

---

We, who think that the word "Chemtrails" has a certain legitimacy, {as a phenomenal category distinct from phenomena described by the words "clouds" and "contrails"} are not so quick to castigate those who do not perceive the distinction between natural clouds, classical "contrails" and Chemtrails, as "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, or "loopy." We are merely amazed that you folks are not able to perceive the distinctions. And that, somehow, you are not in touch with your own train of Memory...

Because, truly, there were no "Chemtrails" prior to 1984.

The record does not show that the little cabal of nay-sayers who have posted on this thread are qualified either as therapists or psychologists to aver that people who think they see "chemtrails" are either ignorant or crazy.

Turning the issue of "Contrails versus Chemtrails" into a psychological issue, and asserting that "believers" in Chemtrails are either deluded or ignorant, is a technique of discrediting. Such a tactic does not follow from a pure pursuit of Science. It flows, instead, from cant, and demagoguery.

Again, I request that you guys
- and you are all Men -
watch, or listen to the following:


Catherine Austin-Fitts on the subject of Chemtrails:
https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Rosalind Peterson, on the subject of Chemtrailshttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png

Would you guys care to comment on what these two wise women have to say ?
=OR=
Are they just "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, "loopy" - and the like?

*

Mark Walter Evans

Asked and answered Mark. See my first reply in this thread. #17. Calling people names is not an argument, by the way.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

Thank you, Dane, for your swift, and lengthy answer. Next Question: Can you explain the Phenomenon of why the word "Chemtrails" has come into existence in the last twenty years or so, other than attributing it to the category of "Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds?"

---

Nope, I've got no other explanation. You've pegged it.

Contrails have formed behind jets since jets the beginning of the "jet era", the late 1950's. The "phenomenon" of the word "chemtrails" can be attributed to people trying to explain what they don't understand (atmospheric condensation, holding patterns, etc.)

It's similar to how those in the dark ages attributed disease to spirits or "vapors", or thought that bloodletting would purge evil spirits. When you (as an individual or a society) do not understand what's going on around you, there is a tendency to make things up in order to create a zone of comfort.

The alternative is to accept that you don't know what you don't know, and to make an effort to learn the facts - rather than the woo-woo.

-Dane

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png "Mad" Miles wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Asked and answered Mark. See my first reply in this thread. #17. Calling people names is not an argument, by the way.

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Names? Which names are you referring to, Miles? : "nay-sayers" ? "guys" ? "Men" ?

All of which are benign terms, in comparison with the aspersions of Madness, Delusion, and Ignorance that your party has continually used in your invectives against those whom you typify as "believers" on this thread.

Again, I request that you guys
- and you are all Men -
watch, or listen to the following:


Catherine Austin-Fitts on the subject of Chemtrails:
https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Rosalind Peterson, on the subject of Chemtrailshttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png

Would you guys care to comment on what these two wise women have to say ?
=OR=
Are they just "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, "loopy" - and the like?

*

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

Would you guys care to comment on what these two wise women have to say ?
=OR=
Are they just "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, "loopy" - and the like?

---

Bingo!

-DJ

Mark, you might enjoy:

https://youtu.be/qqWAosLWMQs

Lots of folks have posted videos on Youtube which might help you understand the science and facts behind contrail formation.

Or, you can take normal things like condensation and holding patterns and ascribe mystical and magical beliefs to them.

But, that's really not rational.

-DJ

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by danejasper:

Bingo!

-DJ

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So even after posting the article on cloud seeding in Santa Barbara; some are still in denial?

Funny how the article states they're doing it to protect the watershed; without considering what the concentration of the materials involved will do to everyone's habitat, or the consequences of different region's weather modification programs impacting each other.

The real reason is more likely that, the cities have not learned to live within their limits of water supply. So as usual, they use artificial means, to support unsustainable growth with complete disregard for the consequences.

Climate change is man-made, both as a consequence of our lifestyles, and just like with GMO's, by trying to out-engineer Nature, instead of just adjusting our lives to do less harm.

The "ignorant" description fits those on this list who are IGNORING what is in plain sight; and IGNORING the facts which support what is really going on. Is this willful, or just lazy? Do the naysayers own stock in these faux Green technologies?

I doubt they reviewed the information on the Rosalind Peterson website, www.californiaskywatch.com. Perhaps even my older post, which mentions she worked for the County of Mendocino on crop loss assessment. Having spent time with her; I know she does not fit the adjectives mentioned above.

FYI, I grew up on Air Force bases; took the aviation course at SRJC, and flying lessons from Dragonfly Aviation at the SC Airport, in the early 80's; also have been painting and photographing clouds for decades.

Vapor trails still look just the same; but our sky has changed because of the many, varied GeoEngineering methods!!!

The worms have not come out during the rains this year, as they have for the last 3 I've been here. I used to scoop them up by the dozen to relocate them in my container garden, before they were flushed down the storm drain. Not one has appeared this year.

:raindrops:

This is not delusion, it's astute observation!

The lack of it, from those who deem themselves rooted in science, is astounding.

Anyone here able to make a time lapse video on heavy spray days?

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Thank you, Dane, for your swift, and lengthy answer. Next Question: Can you explain the Phenomenon of why the word "Chemtrails" has come into existence in the last twenty years or so, other than attributing it to the category of "Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds?"

---

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Nope, I've got no other explanation. You've pegged it.

Contrails have formed behind jets since jets the beginning of the "jet era", the late 1950's. The "phenomenon" of the word "chemtrails" can be attributed to people trying to explain what they don't understand (atmospheric condensation, holding patterns, etc.)

It's similar to how those in the dark ages attributed disease to spirits or "vapors", or thought that bloodletting would purge evil spirits. When you (as an individual or a society) do not understand what's going on around you, there is a tendency to make things up in order to create a zone of comfort.

The alternative is to accept that you don't know what you don't know, and to make an effort to learn the facts - rather than the woo-woo.

-Dane

---

Zone of Comfort?

It is hardly "comforting" to entertain - even for a moment - the notion that rogue elements in the Federal government could be, or are, doing one iota of all the things that are alleged to be happening, regarding this issue of Chemtrails. So I hardly think that this point of your argument holds water. On the other hand, I completely agree with this sentence:

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

The alternative is to accept that you don't know what you don't know, and to make an effort to learn the facts - rather than the woo-woo.

---

- With the hope that you, Dane, and you, All, might learn to realize that this applies to you, too. I don't claim to know what is going on with these chemtrail-clouds, and I have stated as much, repeatedly, and mildly, on this thread.

I have been accused, in this thread of "fear-mongering." I did not answer the charge at the time, because to me, it was absurd. Because fear-mongering, like "going about willfully to deceive," implies a degree of malicious intent, and I know, in my own heart, that this is not the case... I also know, from experience, how hard it is to maintain a position of active opposition to the oligarchy. The powers that be have developed Silent weapons for Quiet wars; and they use them.

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Sebtown1968 wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

What you are doing is far from "Reporting." It is fear mongering. You are merely linking sources from dubious websites that draw wild conclusions form anecodotal evidence. What I am simply doing is calling "Bulls%&t" and attempting to balance this discussion with a sprinkling of sanity. Others on this thread have made similar attempts. Not to change your mind- as it is already convinced, but to offer a balanced discussion for others who stumble on this thread and have not formed opinions on this matter.

---

So which is it - Comfort or Fear - that this topic evokes in People? Get it straight. I, for one, derive neither comfort, or pleasure from the subject. It's a hard subject; an unpleasant one.

But, even if I were blind, and could not verify the existence of this new phenomena with my own eyes, >which I can do, and have done< I would maintain, from a philosophical standpoint - from a position of Phenomenology - that the simple and mere existence of this new word, Chemtrails, {concerning which, there are upwards of seven million, two hundred eighty thousands hits on Google, at this date} is significant, in and of itself, and can not be dismissed and swept away so readily, and blithely as you have done, Dane. With all due respect.

- Mark

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

Zone of Comfort?

It is hardly "comforting" to entertain - even for a moment - the notion that rogue elements in the Federal government could be, or are, doing one iota of all the things that are alleged to be happening, regarding this issue of Chemtrails. So I hardly think that this point of your argument holds water. On the other hand, I completely agree with this sentence:

- With the hope that you, Dane, and you, All, might learn to realize that this applies to you, too. I don't claim to know what is going on with these chemtrail-clouds, and I have stated as much, repeatedly, and mildly, on this thread.

I have been accused, in this thread of "fear-mongering." I did not answer the charge at the time, because to me, it was absurd. Because fear-mongering, like "going about willfully to deceive," implies a degree of malicious intent, and I know, in my own heart, that this is not the case... I also know, from experience, how hard it is to maintain a position of active opposition to the oligarchy. The powers that be have developed Silent weapons for Quiet wars; and they use them.


So which is it - Comfort or Fear - that this topic evokes in People? Get it straight. I, for one, derive neither comfort, or pleasure from the subject. It's a hard subject; an unpleasant one.

But, even if I were blind, and could not verify the existence of this new phenomena with my own eyes, >which I can do, and have done< I would maintain, from a philosophical standpoint - from a position of Phenomenology - that the simple and mere existence of this new word, Chemtrails, {concerning which, there are upwards of seven million, two hundred eighty thousands hits on Google, at this date} is significant, in and of itself, and can not be dismissed and swept away so readily, and blithely as you have done, Dane. With all due respect.

- Mark

---

Hi Mark,

I guess for me it's just not enough to say contrails have become chemtrails and it's gotta be true. I remember when I was a kid and I looked into the sky and saw jets leaving contrails. These didn't dissipate in a minute or two but lasted a long time. So far nobody has answered the essential questions like who is doing the spraying, who is paying for it, why is it being done, and why does it span many years with many political changes taking place. Why has there been no compelling evidence of it, why hasn't it become a huge scandal, why hasn't anyone come forth to "out" the practice who is credible with incontravertable evidence.

A worldwide conspiracy to foist chemtrails upon an unsuspecting public just seems so laughable, especially when they can so easily be explained as simple contrails. Give me some evidence and I'll listen but until then the scientific reasoning of folks like Dane have the upper hand. Do you at least grant that he answered your questions about your "photographic evidence"?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Hi Mark,

I guess for me it's just not enough to say contrails have become chemtrails and it's gotta be true. I remember when I was a kid and I looked into the sky and saw jets leaving contrails. These didn't dissipate in a minute or two but lasted a long time. So far nobody has answered the essential questions like who is doing the spraying, who is paying for it, why is it being done, and why does it span many years with many political changes taking place. Why has there been no compelling evidence of it, why hasn't it become a huge scandal, why hasn't anyone come forth to "out" the practice who is credible with incontravertable evidence.

A worldwide conspiracy to foist chemtrails upon an unsuspecting public just seems so laughable, especially when they can so easily be explained as simple contrails. Give me some evidence and I'll listen but until then the scientific reasoning of folks like Dane have the upper hand. Do you at least grant that he answered your questions about your "photographic evidence"?

---

Aside from having hundreds of my own photos as evidence; I researched. Please do the same. Just google Weather Modification and Geo Engineering.

(Sad the science minded here fall short on doing simple research.)

When I did this a few years ago, I saw the firms who were under contract to do this, and have advertised for at least 10 years that they have been doing business with local governments and folks like PG & E (to increase hydro power production by increasing the snow pack.)

Then look at how Congress made climate change a national security issue in 2006. Even though it's known that the Navy and Air Force are involved, the can keep the cloak of secrecy going.

Just start making a sky observance diary for yourself. You WILL see.

You are breathing this stuff; wake up and smell the chemicals before they completely clog your ability to think for yourself.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

.... So far nobody has answered the essential questions like who is doing the spraying, who is paying for it, why is it being done, and why does it span many years with many political changes taking place. Why has there been no compelling evidence of it, why hasn't it become a huge scandal, why hasn't anyone come forth to "out" the practice who is credible with incontravertable evidence. ... A worldwide conspiracy to foist chemtrails upon an unsuspecting public just seems so laughable,

---

That's your problem! Obviously it doesn't seem so laughable to the chemtrail crowd. And there are lots of answers to your questions. It's just that neither you nor I find them credible. Lump that with PV's tack, where she finds that the mere existence of any cloud seeding programs supports the claims that (all? large numbers?) of the atmospheric effects are incontrovertible evidence of deliberate spraying, and you get your explanation of why this won't go away.

Wow. I'm amazed that this topic has engendered so many passionate, thoughtful, and sometimes hurtful replies. I was the original poster and, as far as I know, the reporter requesting information has not tuned in to take note of the responses. I sent him two emails with links to the thread and have not heard back from him at all. He's in Mendo County and part of an Investigative Reporters group I belong to.

I posted this because I have a dear friend of 60 years I grew up with, 90 miles from the Laguardia Airport. I spent many an afternoon at home, lying on the grass, staring at the white trails from planes that were circling above, watching them dissipate -- or not, while opening my heart to my young friends. Marty saw those same plumes. Over the years, Marty seems to have become afraid of many phenomena: extraterrestrials, a group he describes as devoted to a concept called "predetermined consensus" (google it) and now, chemtrails.

When I posted I thought I might learn something new that would make me believe that the Powers That Be have a true interest in usng the skies above to harm us. Since the day I wrote that original post, the Occupy Movement has taken a human form and has paved a clear Path to the true Evil in our world - a Path that I believe we need to be focusing on now. We need to follow, support, and empower those courageous youth who are saving our country, our lives and our planet. Scott Olsen is recovering and now able to speak about how his right to free speech was literally taken from him. Michael Moore has painted a picture of the embodiment of Greed known as Wall Street.

The very few people who actually run our country, and world, by dumbing down and enslaving the masses have no problem with dropping nuclear plants (read bombs) into the middle of the masses, destroying the water tables under the farms and homes with a process known as fracking, drilling for oil and hiding ecological disasters under media and advertising voodoo, dumping plastics into the lifeblood of the earth, the oceans, raising the CO2 levels causing ocean acidification to a level not known for 500,000 years, masterminding massive worldwide wars using the children of the masses to enrich themselves, and on and on --- and on. Seems to me, there is no need for them to hide their activities up in the sky when they can openly pillar and purge the "peasants" (their word, not mine) into Believing -- sometimes with great enthusiasm (tea baggers).

Seems to me that, if all the energy spent on this long thread on Wacco about chemtrails were used to alleviate just one of the disasters above, we could move toward taking the country back to the 50's, when I was dreamily watching the white trails in the sky.

And you, my treasured Waccoians, are part of this History. Your words rise above, then dissipate down over this conscious community of almost 11,000. Take care with your writing. Read what you are about to send twice over. Slipping into two common shortcuts, (1) referencing another opinion as insane (loony, nuts, crazy, paranoid, etc.) and (2) saying they are under-informed (uneducated, in denial, not scientific, stupid, etc) doesn't lead to the clear communication your own ideas. Instead, it causes the reader to lose his way. Your point of view and information can stand alone and become a strong message with a clear, clean impact.

Thank you, everyone for caring so much and keeping this consciousness breathing.

Peggy Day, grandmother.

Look, up in the sky! It’s a bird, it’s a plane, it’s (wait for it) - CHEMTRALS! Chicken Little was right! OMG, vapor trails high in the air, we’re all gonna die, or breathe aluminum dust or something else really, really bad. And the evidence is: scary vapor trails high in the air. Oy.

Pardon my French, but this has got to be one of the most retarded conspiracy theories of all time, and that is saying something. My evidence? Occam’s Razor (look it up if you’re clueless). Incidentally, I have viewed enough dumbass YouTube videos on this subject to last a lifetime, so forget about sending me more links.

Snarking aside, I want to thank the experienced pilots who have contributed to this thread, I’ve learned some interesting things about the atmosphere.

(Apologies to Peggy Day, but, when reason fails, ridicule to the rescue!)

Richard

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png jbox wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Hi Mark,

I guess for me it's just not enough to say contrails have become chemtrails and it's gotta be true. I remember when I was a kid and I looked into the sky and saw jets leaving contrails. These didn't dissipate in a minute or two but lasted a long time. So far nobody has answered the essential questions like who is doing the spraying, who is paying for it, why is it being done, and why does it span many years with many political changes taking place. Why has there been no compelling evidence of it, why hasn't it become a huge scandal, why hasn't anyone come forth to "out" the practice who is credible with incontravertable evidence.

A worldwide conspiracy to foist chemtrails upon an unsuspecting public just seems so laughable, especially when they can so easily be explained as simple contrails. Give me some evidence and I'll listen but until then the scientific reasoning of folks like Dane have the upper hand. Do you at least grant that he answered your questions about your "photographic evidence"?

---

Jon,
Contrails have not become chemtrails. Contrails are still contrails - and ever will be, while there are jet engines on airplanes... Chemtrails are a new phenomena, that, beginning in 1984, and especially since 1989, have made a spectacular appearance in our skies. Unlike classical jet contrails, chemtrails are not ice crystals. Unlike "contrails," chemtrails are not a high altitude phenomena. Unlike "classical" jet contrails, chemtrails fan out into clouds, and often become a haze that covers the whole sky.

Unlike the typical, "classical" jet contrail, that made its advent in 1945, with the development of the jet engine, chemtrails are often sporadic, & manifest as faux clouds, in line-segments. Indeed, it does appear, that there is a spigot inside the plane that is being turned on and off; opened and closed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5z4a_eGs0&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5z...eature=related

As far the question of who is doing it, that is fairly clear, from the materiel that is available on the internet. The feds are doing it - or at east an element among them that has been called, variously, over the years, the "invisible government," "the secret government," or "the secret team." Remember Danny Sheehan?

As to why it is being done; well there are a lot of theories there, and a number of them may intersect. The power elite are taught about "elegant solutions" in Prep School, and they love them. I had a friend, long ago, who went to Case Western Reserve Academy, and he filled me in on that score. The scions of privilege learn about elegant solutions, beginning in the eighth grade. So the purpose of these clouds, of this haze, that is emitted these days from the bellies of the C-100's that are spewing out this stuff, may be manifold.

As far as the answers Dane gave? Well, he did give an answer - that the planes were "in a hold;" in other words, waiting to land at some airport. That's one answer. It may not be correct, however. It involves a certain amount of presumption; since neither Dane nor I were present, or took those particular photographs. We just were not there. The planes in question might have been many miles from any airport, for all we know. I would argue, however, that the trails left by those planes were not classical contrails, since the plumes of the trails are fairly wide, and dense.

I do know about the photographs that I posted on this thread, {#58,#59} for I was present when my friend took them with her digital camera, from my deck. Those were authentic "Chemtrails" and not classical contrails. They fanned out into clouds, and eventually filled most of the sky with haze, over the Mayacama Ridge. I am a witness to that; for I was there...

Do listen to what Catherine Austin-Fitts has to say, here: https://solari.com/podcast/Solari_Report_Digest-11.m4a

Also, I would encourage everyone to invest an hour of their time to listen to this talk by
Rosalind Peterson, on the subject of Chemtrailshttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png

And check out her website, here: www.californiaskywatch.com.

Frankly, I found Dane's one word answer to my Question regarding the testimony of these two women to be a little too glib:

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Would you guys care to comment on what these two wise women have to say ?
=OR=
Are they just "confused," crazy, delusional, ignorant, "loopy" - and the like?

---

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Bingo!

-DJ

---

That, after all, is not exactly a critique... Causing me to wonder if he actually opened up the links... :hmmm: :Yinyangv:


I'll leave it to the goddess gals out there in the west county to find other possible errors of judgment in the brevity of his commentary. And I encourage you women, and ye wymyn, to listen to, and to watch Catherine Austin-Fitts, and Rosalind Peterson; two accomplished and saavy women, each discoursing on the same subject : of how they first became aware of this new phenomenon, Chemtrails.

I also challenge all of you men out there - the science-minded, self-defined, Rationalists among you - to take the time to listen to what these two women have to say.

- Mark

Mark, I'm no expert on identifying "con" versus "chem" - what are these?

They certainly appear to be persisting, fanning out, covering more of the sky.

https://s11.postimage.org/amxj439pf/Capture.png

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png
Mark, I'm no expert on identifying "con" versus "chem" - what are these?

They certainly appear to be persisting, fanning out, covering more of the sky.

https://s11.postimage.org/amxj439pf/Capture.png

---

Dear Dane:
I do not know what "these" are, since I was not present when the picture was taken/or assembled, by Photoshop... I try not to exercise myself in things that are beyond my ken, Dane. I am very slow in forming judgments - and especially - making assumptions about anything that I have no personal experience of. That would be contrary to the Scientific method, you know.
Best Regards,
Mark

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

Dear Dane:
I do not know what "these" are, since I was not present when the picture was taken/or assembled, by Photoshop... I try not to exercise myself in things that are beyond my ken, Dane. I am very slow in forming judgments - and especially - making assumptions about anything that I have no personal experience of. That would be contrary to the Scientific method, you know.
Best Regards,
Mark

---

No, no, this is a real photo, not photoshop.

Are they chemtrails?

-Dane

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

No, no, this is a real photo, not photoshop.

Are they chemtrails?

-Dane

---

Dane,
I do not know, and therefore I can not say whether they are chemtrails or not. If I had been present, on the ground, the day the alleged photograph was taken, Present at the site before and after, then, for sure I could give you a square answer as to yea or nay, Dane.

As it is, all I can say is that I am able to recognize a chemtrail when I see one with my own eyes. I can also testify, before the bar of history, and in the court of the Commons, that the pictures that I posted on this thread { #58, #59} were, indeed Chemtrails, and that there were no natural clouds in the sky on that day, before the Jets began flying back and forth overhead, in these hills where I dwell, east of Santa Rosa proper.

Furthermore, after the planes were through flying back and forth, the sky was thick with haze. None of it was natural.

In Truth,
- Mark

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3]Dane,
I do not know, and therefore I can not say whether they are chemtrails or not. If I had been present, on the ground, the day the alleged photograph was taken, Present at the site before and after, then, for sure I could give you a square answer as to yea or nay, Dane.

---

Sorry, I didn't realize that it was important to see the development over a period of time. Here's two pictures that should make it clear, as the trails fan out and spread.

Are they chemtrails?

-Dane

https://s12.postimage.org/4lxl5omwd/Capture0.png https://s11.postimage.org/amxj439pf/Capture.png

These are interesting pictures, Dane. Did you take them yourself?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Iolchan:

These are interesting pictures, Dane. Did you take them yourself?

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No, they were taken by someone else.

Are they chemtrails?

-Dane

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png danejasper wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

No, they were taken by someone else.

Are they chemtrails?

-Dane

---

My Answer Remains the Same:

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Dear Dane:
I do not know what "these" are, since I was not present when the picture was taken/or assembled, by Photoshop... I try not to exercise myself in things that are beyond my ken, Dane. I am very slow in forming judgments - and especially - making assumptions about anything that I have no personal experience of. That would be contrary to the Scientific method, you know.
Best Regards,
Mark

---

Quote:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Iolchan wrote: https://waccobb.net/forums/images/bu...post-right.png

Dane,
I do not know, and therefore I can not say whether they are chemtrails or not. If I had been present, on the ground, the day the alleged photograph was taken; Present at the site before and after, then, for sure I could give you a square answer as to yea or nay, Dane.

As it is, all I can say is that I am able to recognize a chemtrail when I see one with my own eyes. I can also testify, before the bar of history, and in the court of the Commons, that the pictures that I posted on this thread { #58, #59} were, indeed Chemtrails, and that there were no natural clouds in the sky on that day, before the Jets began flying back and forth overhead, in these hills where I dwell, east of Santa Rosa proper.

Furthermore, after the planes were through flying back and forth, the sky was thick with haze. None of it was natural.

In Truth,
- Mark

---

excuse me, while

I appropriate the Lull...

*

https://www.agriculturedefencecoalition.org

https://www.911weknow.com/about-the-sky

https://www.carnicominstitute.org/

https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/

https://newyorkskywatch.com/

https://thecontrail.com

https://www.iseelines.com/

These are Chemtrails:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3pi9v3mDLs&feature=related

youtube;p3pi9v3mDLs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3pi9v3mDLs&feature=related

And These :


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnO3kDo5J0

youtube;7gnO3kDo5J0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gnO3kDo5J0

Testify

The lines are open for all callers:
believers/unbelievers; the curious;

de-bunkers; dilettantes; doubters;
the dubious; renegades; researchers;

et cetera...

Shah Maat.

*

Mark Walter Evans

On the Project Censored Website, Among
the Top 25 Censored Stories of 2012 :

https://www.projectcensored.org/top-...-modification/

9. Government Sponsored Technologies for Weather Modification


Rising global temperatures, increasing population, and degradation of water supplies, have created broad support for the growing field of weather modification. The U.S. government has conducted weather modification experiments for over half a century, and the military-industrial complex stands poised to capitalize on these discoveries.

One of the latest programs is HAARP, the High-Frequency Active Aural Research Program. This technology can potentially trigger floods, droughts, hurricanes and earthquakes. The scientific idea behind HAARP is to “excite” a specific area of the ionosphere and observe the physical processes in that excited area with intention of modifying ecological conditions. HAARP can also be used as a weapon system, capable of selectively destabilizing agricultural and ecological systems of entire regions.

Another EnMod program is that of atmospheric geo-engineering or cloud seeding, which has found new life since the global warming scare. Cloud Seeding is cirrus clouds created from airplane contrails. Unlike regular contrails, which dissolve in minutes, these artificial contrails can last for several hours…even days. Once the artificial clouds have been created, they are used to reflect solar or man-made radiation.

At a recent international symposium, scientists asserted that “manipulation of climate through modification of cirrus clouds is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy theory.” The only conspiracy surrounding geo-engineering is that most governments and industry refuse to publicly admit what anyone can see in the sky or discover in peer-reviewed research. The Belfort Group, has been working to raise public awareness about toxic aerial spraying – popularly known as chemtrails. However, scientists preferred the term ‘persistent contrails’ to describe the phenomenon, to move the inquiry away from amateur conspiracy theories.

Dr Vermeeren, Delft University of Technology, presented a 300-page scientific report entitled, “CASE ORANGE: Contrail Science, Its Impact on Climate and Weather Manipulation Programs Conducted by the United States and Its Allies.” He stated clearly: “Weather manipulation through contrail formation… is in place and fully operational.” Vermeeren mentioned a 1991 patent now held by Raytheon, a private defense contractor, with: “18 claims to reduce global warming through stratospheric seeding with aluminum oxide… thorium oxide … and refractory Welsbach material.” Authors of the study expressed concern that Raytheon, a private corporation, makes daily flights spraying these materials in our skies with minimal government oversight. Raytheon is the same company that holds the HAARP contract with the US.

Other countries are also experimenting. The Chinese government announced in April, 2007 the creation of the first-ever artificial snowfall over the city of Nagqu in Tibet. China now conducts more cloud seeding projects than any other nation.

Sources:

“Atmospheric Geoengineering: Weather Manipulation, Contrails and Chemtrails,” Rady Ananda, July 30, 2010, Global Research.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=20369

touche'

Now we're getting some meatier evidence re: "chemtrails", from a pretty credible source (though I must admit I haven't found the time to look at the video links, and I've always found Catherine Austin-Fitts's analyses of the economy to be very convincing, so maybe she has something convincing to say about "chemtrails" too).