SMART METER ALERT! Stop installation in Sonoma and Marin Counties!

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An EMF Safety Network member just called to say there are Smart Meter installers (Wellington trucks) in Rohnert Park NOW ( (9:45 am Friday Dec 31) near the corner of East Cotati Ave and Camino Collegio on the South West side, heading towards or near M section.

Can anyone (or better- two or more) go there to chase them off? Bring a camera!

Please, join our WELLINGTON ALERT phone tree list for Sonoma County so we can help to protect our areas!
email your name and phone number to [email protected]

Anyone can call 824-0824 HOTLINE for Wellington alert- to let us know if they spot Wellington trucks and where they are in Sonoma County. Let's get organized and keep them OUT!

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

Wellington is the subcontractor PGE hired to install Smart Meters. Their deployment yard is in Rohnert Park behind the Hertz rental yard at 5500 Commerce Blvd. They drive little white trucks with Wellington logo on the drivers door. Some trucks now have the Wellington logo covered by white plastic.

Do you think "chasing them off" is going to stop them? I don't understand the fuss. EMFs are all around us, how is not having a smart meter going to change the effects from an environment that is already flooded with EMFs? I live in Sebastopol, asked for and got a smart meter last May. No problems so far. Probably less signal strength than the wireless router, microwave and cel phone.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sasu:

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An EMF Safety Network member just called to say there are Smart Meter installers (Wellington trucks) in Rohnert Park NOW ( (9:45 am Friday Dec 31) near the corner of East Cotati Ave and Camino Collegio on the South West side, heading towards or near M section.

Can anyone (or better- two or more) go there to chase them off? Bring a camera!

Please, join our WELLINGTON ALERT phone tree list for Sonoma County so we can help to protect our areas!
email your name and phone number to [email protected]

Anyone can call 824-0824 HOTLINE for Wellington alert- to let us know if they spot Wellington trucks and where they are in Sonoma County. Let's get organized and keep them OUT!

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

Wellington is the subcontractor PGE hired to install Smart Meters. Their deployment yard is in Rohnert Park behind the Hertz rental yard at 5500 Commerce Blvd. They drive little white trucks with Wellington logo on the drivers door. Some trucks now have the Wellington logo covered by white plastic.

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So, what is the big deal about Smart Meters that you want to stop their installation & keep them out of Sonoma County?

Beverly

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Posted in reply to the post by BeverlyBR:

So, what is the big deal about Smart Meters that you want to stop their installation & keep them out of Sonoma County?

Beverly

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The main issues are:

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Simply put, the main issues are:

1. Security of data and private information

2. Questionable accuracy and greatly increased bills

3. Loss of jobs and trained people in the field monitoring the infrastructure

4. Potential and unknown health risks from wireless radiation

5. Private property rights and your ability to choose for yourself in your own home

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There's more info about each of these issues here.

FWIW, I think #1 is a serious concern, and perhaps #2, but i think that's been sorted it out. My understanding is that thanks to the PUC, PG&E actually makes more money by selling less energy.

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

If you don't understand the potential erosion of personal land and health rights as posed by the smart meter grid, you can find PLENTY of well documented info on these two sites: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/ , here: https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/, and more on health risks here: https://www.radiationresearch.org/, and here: https://wiredchild.org/, and those are just a few that can be found. The fact that we are not given a "choice" in the matter of installing a smart meter is an invasion of personal property freedom of choice rights. While it's true we are bombarded with electromagnetic fields these days, most all of the technology are choices we can make, such as Wi fi or cell phones, and other wireless media. According to PG & E, I believe a privately held stock company, we do not have a choice in the matter of having a smart meter installed; they say they are mandated by the state.

" ....In California alone, 23 Cities (including Morro Bay) and three counties have formally opposed the wireless PG&E smart meters...." and "....Prudent avoidance of electromagnetic radiation has been adopted in Australia, Sweden and several U.S. states including California, Colorado, Hawaii, New York, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin...." says Judy Vick in a recent Cal Coast News Article. See: https://calcoastnews.com/2010/12/leg...-smart-meters/. While some folks may not be sensitive to the electromagnetic fields and feel that this should not be such a big deal, think of those who are sensitive and actually do develop illness's from it. They should have a choice in the matter and not have it forced on them. After all there has been NO study done by the PG&E, the CPUC or the FCC on the health risks of these meters. Any statement that they are "safe" is false, because the study has not been done to determine that.

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Thanks to Barry and Sabrina for posting the concerns with Smart Meters: here's more info:

Smart Meters are costing us money, our privacy, our health and safety. Some people's bills have doubled, tripled and more. Smart Meters have exploded, burned out appliances and are making some people very sick, insomnia, split second head aches and high pitched ringing in the ears, nausea, etc. This is RF pollution, just like cell towers, only right on our homes! While some people have gotten meters removed, others are stuck fighting PG&E.

PG&E cannot be trusted to provide substantiated or believable information to consumers about Smart Meters. There's been no environmental safety study. Smart Meters transmit pulsed microwave radiation (RF) constantly, throughout the day and night.

Here's some science simplified: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=609
Also: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/wp-cont...09/10/sage.pdf

People are getting sick from Smart meters https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=2292

Read these shocking comments : burnt out appliances, serious over billing, interference https://www.ucan.org/forum/forums/en...illing_dispute
https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1223

And Smart Meter fires and explosion https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1280

People can reduce their EMF exposure- something the State of California advises people to do! Here's some suggestions on how to do it: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page%20id=327

Read more about why we and many cities and several counties oppose them here: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=872

The fact is, a microwave, a cell phone, wi-fi are a choice, and you can purchase or not. You can also turn these devices on or off at your convenience. A Smart Meter is part of a microwave radio system that the utility is forcing on our homes and they and they are using our property for their use without compensation- this violates California law!

PGE will be able to turn off your power remotely, or turn down your heat, or AC or water heater when they need to. Plus they will be able to track your personal activities, and do you want to trust your privacy to PGE?

All new Appliances will be sold with RF chips so our homes will be further polluted with wireless, where there's evidence of harm, scientific and anecdotal!

Need more? See this: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...956#post126956
and
https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=1546

Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

PS... and here's what you can do about it!
Refuse Smart Meters! Post signs on utility meters or demand removal and complain (in CA send this: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=1588) to your public utilities commission!

Take Action! https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=649

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjokY5flkbw

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Posted in reply to the post by natalie:

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

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What month was that? Our bills go way up in winter due to far shorter days and longer nights, and of course, it's COLD so that's another draw on gas or electric power.
You can compare the month(s) in question that you noticed the bill going up with the same month LAST year. Check specifically to make sure there wasn't a dramatic difference in the number of kilowatt hours of energy used ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Sasu:

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Smart Meters are costing us money, our privacy, our health and safety. Some people's bills have doubled, tripled and more. Smart Meters have exploded, burned out appliances and are making some people very sick, insomnia, split second head aches and high pitched ringing in the ears, nausea, etc. This is RF pollution, just like cell towers, only right on our homes!

There's been no environmental safety study. Smart Meters transmit pulsed microwave radiation (RF) constantly, throughout the day and night.
Sandi Maurer
www.emfsafetynetwork.org

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Maybe money (although more expensive electricity would reduce usage, thereby reducing green house gasses, but that is beside the point). Most likely, the cost will be found in the future if they enforce time-of-use pricing to all: but this doesn't relate to smart meters, just to time-of-use meters (of which smart meters are one example).
If the old meters were not reliable, and reporting less usage than they should have, we should applaud the improvement to make people pay for the resources that they use. The State of California is undertaking a study of smart meter accuracy. If they are determined to be on-the-average over reporting usage, then it is a simple matter for the state to dictate that the smart meter reading be "prorated" for the average error to ensure there is no net increase in the rate of overcharging. By the way, from my understanding of regular meters, the failure mechanism is to record lower usage than actual due to friction and loss in the "wheel" that measures the electric use; so it is reasonable to expect a majority of people might see an increase as they are finally paying for their actual usage.

Doubtful privacy: Is having a person walk up to your house more or less private than a meter reporting your usage? Tracking usage vs time could tell someone when you were home (unless your heater and air-conditioner are on a timer and thus go on-and-off at normal intervals) but the difficulty of hacking into the system is undoubtedly much more difficult than just buying an Infra Red (IR) camera and pointing it at the house. This is how "grow" houses are often found, and it is easy to see people walking around inside.

Health: well here is just where the science and math just don't bear you out. The fields are so small and so infrequent, compared to the ubiquitous fields that they simply cannot have much effect. There is RF in the form of AM and FM stations, Cell towers, and neighbors WiFi that are several orders of magnitude larger. It makes no sense at all to argue this; even if you say it is cumulative (and there is absolutely no evidence, mechanism or hint that low lever signals can accumulate with even the perceived possibilities of high level signals causing some dna damage), the accumulation is so many orders of magnitude below the existing levels and for so short of time that it cannot possibly be considered significant. So to argue it affects your health just makes you look silly and uninformed w.r.t. to even extreme "precautionary" principles.
My son commented to me "are you arguing with those smart meter guys again; it's like arguing with the homeless at a bus stop; they're mostly irrational and is just a waste of your time". I don't suppose there is any possibility that any science or study could convince you, but I don't intend to let you make these completely false posting without at least presenting the logical extension of even your "facts"; which is...the effects you claim, beyond any reasonable doubt, cannot be caused by RF of smart meters. And did you know that the old meters relied on EM fields to turn the little wheel (eddy currents) which can only occur in the presence of radiating RF fields: thus, perhaps the new meters radiate less RF than the old meters.

Safety: I have never heard an example of a smart meter exploding or damaging anything. I can't see how they possibly can since there are a nearly passive monitor. If you did have a smart appliance, then maybe it could have an effect if it "pulled-the-plug" at the wrong instance in the operating cycle, but to my knowledge no smart appliances have been made available. Further, I would like to know if any regular meters have exploded? I would guess so too. A reasonable scenario for an explosion would be an installation where the meter is poorly connected in-line, causing a heat build up at the contacts: but that would be the same whether it is a Smart Meter or a regular meter being installed. However, if one could say "1 in 1000" meter installations results in a bad installation that can cause problems" then I would consider that a valid justification for asking whether it is wise to replace all meters. If it's 1 in 30 million, then I would guess the benefits outweigh the risks.

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Posted in reply to the post by daynurse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjokY5flkbw

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The biggest thing that is disturbing about this is that they don't jumper the mains before pulling the meter, and (according to the poster) don't contact an residents to let them know they're killing the power. It'd be a bummer to have you most elegant in-process posting killed by the power going off. But, in West County, we must be prepared for unstable PGE anyhow (Uninterpretable Power Supplies -UPS and standy systems are recommended!).

And: does anyone else find it ironic that shes talking on a mobile phone while she's filming this? That mobile phone call just exposed her to conservatively 62,500 times the exposure of a smart meter (2 cm vs 5 meters average distance). So that one phone call exposed her to 171 years worth of smart meter radiation!

Actually, since our meter went in our bills have dropped. Same for the gas meter.

I had a client for a while who was an engineer with PG&E - he said the old mechanical meters ("analog") were notoriously inaccurate - the gears would corrode and they'd slow down or even stop. I recall the investigations of the high bills in the central valley towns usually came up with this - the old meters were running slow, so the customers were used to underpaying for their huge AC load.

Other issues: PG&E owns the meters - they have the right to access them, repair them, and replace them.

EMF: the meters emit very little - less than a typical cell phone. Where we live we're near the KSRO transmitters (off Stony Point Road), and talk about EMF! We can hear "Coast to Coast" coming out of our hifi when the tuner is turned off. AM broadcast (and FM and TV) have been happening for many decades - these guys put out hundreds of thousands of watts. With all that going on, I'm not really worried about the drop in the bucket.

If you are EMF sensitive (I know some are), I just found out there is a federally designated EMF-free area in West Virginia - to protect the Green Bank radio telescopes. You could always move there. Admittedly, it's probably not feasible for most. The idea is interesting, however. (If anyone tries to emit any microwaves there - a cell phone, WIFI, Prius V (with it's adaptive cruise - a huge emitter), the telescopes will pick it up and the guys trace it down and shut it off.)

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Posted in reply to the post by natalie:

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

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Posted in reply to the post by natalie:

I do have a smart meter and I noticed my bills went up by about 35%. Did anyone else notice this?

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My bill went up- the Smart Meter was installed early summer 2010, but not turned on. An area has to have a curtain % of Smart Meters installed to be turned on.
I guess it was the cold and wet season that made my electric heaters work harder... perhaps I could blame it on the SM?

Thank you. I don't have an electric heater.

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Posted in reply to the post by edie:

My bill went up- the Smart Meter was installed early summer 2010, but not turned on. An area has to have a curtain % of Smart Meters installed to be turned on.
I guess it was the cold and wet season that made my electric heaters work harder... perhaps I could blame it on the SM?

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Well, it makes sense that the bills would be higher with the smart meter if the old meters weren't functioning properly. I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

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Posted in reply to the post by stuartdole:

Actually, since our meter went in our bills have dropped. Same for the gas meter.

I had a client for a while who was an engineer with PG&E - he said the old mechanical meters ("analog") were notoriously inaccurate - the gears would corrode and they'd slow down or even stop. I recall the investigations of the high bills in the central valley towns usually came up with this - the old meters were running slow, so the customers were used to underpaying for their huge AC load.

Other issues: PG&E owns the meters - they have the right to access them, repair them, and replace them.

EMF: the meters emit very little - less than a typical cell phone. Where we live we're near the KSRO transmitters (off Stony Point Road), and talk about EMF! We can hear "Coast to Coast" coming out of our hifi when the tuner is turned off. AM broadcast (and FM and TV) have been happening for many decades - these guys put out hundreds of thousands of watts. With all that going on, I'm not really worried about the drop in the bucket.

If you are EMF sensitive (I know some are), I just found out there is a federally designated EMF-free area in West Virginia - to protect the Green Bank radio telescopes. You could always move there. Admittedly, it's probably not feasible for most. The idea is interesting, however. (If anyone tries to emit any microwaves there - a cell phone, WIFI, Prius V (with it's adaptive cruise - a huge emitter), the telescopes will pick it up and the guys trace it down and shut it off.)

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I don't have sound on this computer, so I could not hear if there was any talking going on in the video, BUT...I AM WONDERING WHY the guy is required to use a protective glass (or heavy plastic?) face cover when there is no welding going on? If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E), could the guy be wearing protective glass because of the cumulative effect the radiation has on a person, that is so clearly laid out throughout all of the links posted so far, especially the links posted by Sandi Maurer (Sasu)? They're being safe with their workers, but what about the person who's bedroom and bed are backed up right to the wall of a smart meter? Who's protecting them? Spam 1 lays out a long argument in favor of smart meters with no documentation to back him or her up unlike ALL of the websites and links that have been presented so far pointing to the potential harms and dangers of the smart meters. Stuart Dole is suggesting that the old analog meters gears were corroded; so yes, meters may need replacing from time to time, but that does NOT give PG&E the permission to change folks quality of life and environment by adding unwanted permanent wireless technology fixture to your house. They can add a new "wired" meter; it might even be digital; but does NOT need to be wireless.

HERE are a couple things you can do to stop smart meters:
SEND AN OPT OUT LETTER TO CPUC, Form letter here: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?p=1588
PUT A SIGN ON YOUR METERS, here's how: https://emfsafetynetwork.org/?page_id=649

THERE IS NOW A NEW ACTION ALERT to STOP SMART METERS. I just received info on this action from Deborah Tavares of hthttps://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com and have attached action info within this thread. If you already have a smart meter on your house and don't want it, see attachment " A Small Claim with Big Consequences". IF you DON'T have a smart meter yet, and still don't want one, see attachment " Steps to Avoid Big Injuries"
Here is the original forwarded information from Deborah and I've attached the action letters at the bottom:

From Deborah Tavares
(If you have questions about this action alert email: [email protected])


ACTION ALERT!


IF PG$E HAS NOT YET INSTALLED A SMART METER ON YOUR PROPERTY - OR - IF THEY HAVE - YOU CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.


We have citizen action claims and notices that are attached to download for all to complete for either folks with a smart meter or those who do not have a smart meter yet.


These were drafted by the attorney types in our group of horrified deployed and un-deployed utility customers.


There is a small claims court action packet is intended to use the law against people who say they are using the law against us. The Small Claims filing is for folks with a smart meter already and the Notice is for folks without a smart meter.


Specific instructions are attached to each course of action and you should all consider following through with one of these as soon as possible.


PLEASE FORWARD TO "ALL" YOU KNOW - ASAP!
If you have questions about this action alert email: [email protected]

NOTE: as of 1/19/2011 I removed the attachments for the actions for smart meters and am pasting in the website for purchasing signs and bumperstickers, which also has the same actions posted to the right of the web page. Go here: here:https://www.refusesmartmeters.com/

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

I don't have sound on this computer, so I could not hear if there was any talking going on in the video, BUT...I AM WONDERING WHY the guy is required to use a protective glass (or heavy plastic?) face cover when there is no welding going on? If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E), could the guy be wearing protective glass because of the cumulative effect the radiation has on a person,

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No. Here you are just making things up out of your ignorance. As I stated in the post, the disturbing thing is that they are replacing the meter "hot". When you open an electric circuit that has current running through it, it MUST spark (absolutely has to, Maxwell's equations require it). If there was really substatial current, at the max of the usage it might be 100 or 200 amps, the spark could conceivably vaporize a bit of the the contact material throwing off a spark of molten metal. In fact, it is identical to an arc-welding system, and it fully explains wearing protection that resembles protection for a welder. For that matter, a plastic face mask won't have much effect on RF energy other than possibly concetrating it around the mask (slightly) do the dielectric of plastic being different from air.

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that is so clearly laid out throughout all of the links posted so far, especially the links posted by Sandi Maurer (Sasu)? They're being safe with their workers, but what about the person who's bedroom and bed are backed up right to the wall of a smart meter? Who's protecting them? Spam 1 lays out a long argument in favor of smart meters with no documentation to back him or her up

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I have had lots of links, but mostly I can rely on the physics of the situation which is not subject to interpretation. A cell phone operating 1 inch from the head at max power (roughly 2 watts) produces a field strenght 41 milliwatts/cm^2. A smart meter operating at the max of part 15 FCC rules would be about 1W at a distance of 500 cm, producing a field 0.0003 millwatts/cm^; about 125,000 times smaller, but to be conservative, I suggested that the cell phone was operationg at 1/2 power, thus the claim of 62,5000 times less. The phone call lasted about 45 seconds, about the same time as the smart meter operates all day, so you can divide 62500 by 365 days/year and come up with the FACT that the one phone call made exposed the user to 171 years of smart meter operation. I don't say there is NO evidence of cell phone usage being linked to disease, but I do say that all the posted references refer to levels associated with cell phones held to the head, and are so much greater than the smart meters, that anyone acting Reasonably or Rationally would have to conclude there is simply no cause to believe smart meters can cause any perceptible change in anyone's health. You don't need a reference for that, the math and facts speak simply for themselves.

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issueof unlike ALL of the websites and links that have been presented so far pointing to the potential harms and dangers of the smart meters.

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And I have taken the time to read almost everyone of them. And many here conflate the discussion of Cell phones (with high fields near the head) with cell towers (much lower fields), AM radios (much higher fields) and RF smart meters (much much lower fields).

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Stuart Dole is suggesting that the old analog meters gears were corroded; so yes, meters may need replacing from time to time, but that does NOT give PG&E the permission to change folks quality of life and environment by adding unwanted permanent wireless technology fixture to your house. They can add a new "wired" meter; it might even be digital; but does NOT need to be wireless.

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Wired vs wireless has no effect on the real issues: time of use pricing, ability to net meter, privacy. Your irrational fear of the wireless RF smart meters is just that, irrational. If you have ever used a cell phone, or a cordless phone, for even 1 minute, you have exposed yourself to more than 171 YEARS of RF smart meter fields. And no, I don't work for PGE. It just drives me nuts that as a society we decide what should be done and not done based on a completely irrational basis. By the way, the old meters had lead and probably mercury in them...removing them should be encouraged as it removes lead from the environment. (Actually, I'm kidding here, in that while the risk of disease from lead from the old meters is probably significantly more than any possible risk of the RF fields, the risk is so low as to also be de minimus).

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Posted in reply to the post by rhartsantarosa:

I heard a spokesperson for TURN (The Utility Reform (or somesuch) Network on KGO say that the reason PGE is so intent on smartmeters everywhere is so they can implement demand pricing--yu pay more when use is high and less when use is low. They tout this as a conservation measure but it punishes those who must be at home such as moms and old folks, who will pay more or sit and freeze in the winter and bake in the summer. My old parents-- including my 100% housebound mom-- already hesitate to use their air conditioning in the summer (115 degrees for days in their town last summer!) because they are afraid of the bills and this will will just make it worse. The TURN suggestion is to have PGE give rebates to reward conservation, not higher rates to punish their captive customers. I am refusing the installation (by phone) and so far it has worked. But very worried about the end game.

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Watch out for TURN (Toward Utility Rate Normalization). They've done more damage to the utility industry than any single entity. They may be watching PGE, but who's watching them. I was an Environmental Supervisor for Southern California Edison, in the mid 90's, when TURN began to gain a stronger influence on the regulatory processes of the utility industry. They helped create the political process that forced investor owned utilities to divest significant percentages of their generating facilities, selling them off to IPP's (independent power producers), who had no better qualification to run the facilities than the original owners. TURN was so influential in convincing the powers that be, to de-regulate and resructure the utility industry, that a new energy broker was created to regulate the distribution and pricing of energy....................ENRON!!!!

yikes! I can see that when I said: " If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E)" It struck a cord in Spam 1 causing him to call me names like "ignorant" and "irrational". Well, for your info, I am one of 11 Sonoma county residents chosen by PG&E to take part in a citizens advisory council regarding our concerns over smart meters. We've had 3 meetings with PG&E (always with about 10 PG & E members present as well). The arguments spam1 and Mr. Dole made sounded just like stuff I heard from PG&E in those meetings. And, I did not accuse you, Joel, of working there. Joel, you sound like them pretty much all through your arguments. I'm not going to select quotes out of your argument to prove it and make this any longer than it needs to be.

FYI, as of this AM I received in Email that Sage Associates Environmental Consultants have published an on-line report titled Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions from Smart Meters, dated January 1, 2011. I've just posted to a new separate listing in general community that you can view and download. It's here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...190#post127190. Or go straight to the report here: https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/.

There is PLENTY of facts for you to peruse and argue about there. And there is no longer the excuse of saying that there have been no studies done to show damaging effects by smart meters. By the way, I'm of the opinion that if you chose to have one, I could care less about arguing that with you as long it doesn't pose a risk to me or my loved ones. But I don't want one forced down my throat, and that's my right as an American Citizen; and out of conscience, I feel it's my duty to inform people what I know as I learn it. They can delete, or give me new info I'm not aware of. By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above.

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It just drives me nuts that as a society we decide what should be done and not done based on a completely irrational basis.

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Thank you spam1 January 3,..... to be exposed to a possible health risk from the RF fields you would have to be within 2 feet of the smart meter... therefore- who the hell wants to watch or linger around a smart meter within 2 feet?

..... who will pay for all the now ongoing lawsuits? The taxpayers, PG&E costumers? Many states in US and Europe have them installed for many years now, sooner or later they all will be installed in California. Why don't we just install them and have one group of oversight to monitor and improve the smart meter- outside of PG&E, which I believe is doing just that ongoing, out of their own interest.

..... there are sooo many other health-risk-problems going on that are stuffed down on us- there are books written about them... but I watched one everyday incidence that we don't seem really aware of that got my blood-pressure up on one of the past holidays: A driver stopped his car on the side of the road to make a phone call. (That's very good) he was on the cell phone for 1 1/2 hrs (nooking or frying his brains is his problem)- but his engine was running all the time, not just that, he left and came back two more times each time quite over 1 hr parking with a running engine... This is a senseless ongoing pollution and how many care?------ The smart meter?... get over it... I am sure other stuff is in the making... that's evolution?!

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

yikes! I can see that when I said: " If these meters pose so little risk as as Spam 1 and Stuart Dole are suggesting (sounds like arguments directly from the mouth of PG&E)" It struck a cord in Spam 1 causing him to call me names like "ignorant" and "irrational".

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Please don't confuse being called ignorant with name calling. Ignorance can be cured, and I am happy to help you become less ignorant. (Definition: Ignorant = lack of knowledge). In fact, at the end of your post you say " By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above" again displays ignorance of the fact that for the most part, glass or plastic is invisible to RF energy; however, it will protect against sparks and molten metal, as I explained. So, when you propagate the idea the "smart meters must be dangerous because I see a technician using face protection, based on the Sage report" (my paraphrasing) you are propagating a complete untruth. And doing this due to your lack of knowledge.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

Well, for your info, I am one of 11 Sonoma county residents chosen by PG&E to take part in a citizens advisory council regarding our concerns over smart meters. We've had 3 meetings with PG&E (always with about 10 PG & E members present as well). The arguments spam1 and Mr. Dole made sounded just like stuff I heard from PG&E in those meetings. And, I did not accuse you, Joel, of working there. Joel, you sound like them pretty much all through your arguments. I'm not going to select quotes out of your argument to prove it and make this any longer than it needs to be.

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and if you have access to PGE professionals, then you could also ask them about the protection.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

FYI, as of this AM I received in Email that Sage Associates Environmental Consultants have published an on-line report titled Assessment of Radiofrequency Microwave Radiation Emissions from Smart Meters, dated January 1, 2011. I've just posted to a new separate listing in general community that you can view and download. It's here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...190#post127190. Or go straight to the report here: https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/.

There is PLENTY of facts for you to peruse and argue about there. And there is no longer the excuse of saying that there have been no studies done to show damaging effects by smart meters.

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And I read this in its entirety. This report does not say there are damaging effects of smart meters. At the very best, it says that under some conditions (most of which are dubious) the levels of smart meters could exceed FCC limits for some RF products. But there also some disturbingly biased assumptions in the report, two of which dominate:
1) The report states in essence that since the smart meters have the functionality to operate 100% of the time (vs 0.05% PGE states they will operate) and the signal might be enhanced by 20 times due to reflections, at these levels they exceed some FCC mandates. Thats a 400,000 :1 difference in the assumed amount of RF energy between PGE statements and assumptions in the report.
2) A particularly egregious situational analysis says that a smart meter could be located 11 inches from a nursery, and does field calculations based on assumptions from 1 above. BUT for a meter to be installed, it must be in a completely fire-blocked metal box, with the back of the box facing the house. The very "reflection" effects that the report states can occur would in this case shield the inside of the house.

An interesting side note is that this shielding effect could very reasonably cause the field from your neighbors smart meter to be larger than that from your own. For anyone to not consider this shielding effect amounts to engineering malpractice of the type that was recently reported in the Lanclet re: vaccines and mercury. https://www.torontosun.com/life/heal.../16778696.html

More to the report: at it's very worst implication (stated to be 400,000 times greater than PGE reports) it is still less RF energy than that of a cell phone call, or cordless phone. Thus, if you have ever used either one, you have already voluntarily exposed yourself to so much more RF energy than the likely amount from a smart meter, that it isn't really rational to be concerned with it. The numbers just don't bear it out.

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By the way, I'm of the opinion that if you chose to have one, I could care less about arguing that with you as long it doesn't pose a risk to me or my loved ones. But I don't want one forced down my throat, and that's my right as an American Citizen; and out of conscience, I feel it's my duty to inform people what I know as I learn it. They can delete, or give me new info I'm not aware of. By the way the reason the smart meter installer must use a glass face covering is from potential damage to the eyes at 6'' away from meter, I found out, from within that report above.

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I am trying to help you be RATIONAL about the risks: for example, if it is shown that the risk of cancer from the PGE guy driving up to your house using a gas powered car (which is truly carcinogenic) is less than that of RF from a smart meter, would you then say "sign me up, I want to lower my risk"? That would be the rational thing to do.

And I don't have dog in this fight; I don't think smart meters are all that necessary, but they might allow for reduction in peak power generation, most likely by making it really expensive to run your dryer between noon and 7 pm. But I think a major problem with public debate is a few ignorant and irrational people make a fuss that our local politicians just can't seem to deal with. A true example of this is the Sebastopol city council denying Sonic's application to provide free wifi in Sebastopol. The result of that is very likely HIGHER wifi generation as every single person, business and agency that wants wireless access has to set up their own network. A sonic network could be used by all, with lower overall RF and much lower costs...so how did it get turned down? Two words: Ignorance and irrationality.

Spam 1,
I am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, I'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. You are spending so much energy on just me, and baby, thanks for all the love, but I gotta tell ya, I am not alone nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county; see today's PD article: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110105/ARTICLES/110109761&tc=email_newsletter?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar . Mendocino is starting their fight on now too against the dumming of smart meters. :heart:

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I am not alone nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you

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No, I didn't suppose so. You don't want to be confused by the facts. I, on the other hand, could be convinced the other direction (it is rational to think it is possible for RF to cause disease, but so far the preponderance of the evidence says at most small risk for even large RF energy of hand held phones and I infer smaller risk for smart meters that produce 1/400,000 the energy ). I would be curious, however, if you do own a cell phone or a cordless phone or have ever used one?
And as I said, the RF question is completely unrelated to the question of meters that can monitor usage and charge time of use rates. But one goal of a forum is to educate others, and one way to do that is try to post unbiased facts.
And also as I said, I don't care whether smart meters are installed or not, but just like the fraudulent vaccine scare, this fraudulent scare about RF from smart meters causing disease just doesn't sit well with me. Nor not I believe in space aliens, psychic predictions of the future, homeopathy, the healing power of crystals, or most religious statements. So I will keep posting a reasonable position as my public service. And you do have another choice, unsubscribe from PGE...it's just that simple. And if irrational people from the left and from the right (tea party) are against something, it's probably a sign to support it for all of us in the center.

Does anyone find it ironic that this discussion is happening online?

More ironic...I wouldn't be online at all except for pogowave (inside joke).

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

Spam 1,
I am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, I'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. .... nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters

---

how 'bout ONE of his irrational arguments? actually, on a quick perusal, I didn't see one myself. As Inigo Montoya said in Princess Bride, "I don't think that word means what you think it does". Rational means "appeal to reason". You may not like the conclusions, and in fact you may not believe the evidence he's trotting out, but his posts have been rational arguments.
Sorry to say, saying "nor am I going to be the one to have my mind changed" literally is saying "I have a closed mind". You probably wouldn't characterize yourself that way, but can't you see that's what you're saying?
Finally, finding such bad bedfellows like the tea party should be a warning sign, not a signal that you're on the path to truth.
Along with Spam1, I too don't "have a dog in this fight". But I do have one in the fight against all the crazy battles being fought by people who think windmills are giants and can't be convinced otherwise. There are so many real problems that should be addressed and people of good will piss away their energy on nonsensical wars. If I was more conspiracy-minded I'd think that our overlords are doing it on purpose to distract us from their hidden machinations. (I'll leave defense of that conclusion to other Waccos...)

You don't have to be too conspiracy minded to remember how race has been used as a tool of distraction....you may not be far off Podfish.

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Posted in reply to the post by sabrina:

spam 1,
i am not going to be worn out by trying to copy and paste every one of your, i'm sorry to say, irrational arguments about the emerging scientific and political facts about the dangers of smart meters to both our constitutional rights or our health freedoms. You are spending so much energy on just me, and baby, thanks for all the love, but i gotta tell ya, i am not alone nor am i going to be the one to have my mind changed by you. I simply will continue to share the facts and information from those that to me have credibility, and there are a growing quite a many, darling. Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county; see today's pd article: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110105/articles/110109761&tc=email_newsletter?p=1&tc=pg&tc=ar . Mendocino is starting their fight on now too against the dumming of smart meters. :heart:

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snore

Even the tea party's getting involved against smart meters, so no more accusing just the liberal west county...

'nuff said.

[
Interesting presentation by a guy who is more quailified to speak knowledgeably on the subject of the proposed dangers of smart meters than most of us.
Worth watching, even if you're just a cell phone user who worries about long term effects of RF. He elucidates on the subject of relatively low levels not being the whole story with the system. Pretty good presentation with some scientific background that I found helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLeC...ayer_embedded#!

QUOTE=spam1;127355]No, I didn't suppose so. You don't want to be confused by the facts. I, on the other hand, could be convinced the other direction (it is rational to think it is possible for RF to cause disease, but so far the preponderance of the evidence says at most small risk for even large RF energy of hand held phones and I infer smaller risk for smart meters that produce 1/400,000 the energy ). I would be curious, however, if you do own a cell phone or a cordless phone or have ever used one?
And as I said, the RF question is completely unrelated to the question of meters that can monitor usage and charge time of use rates. But one goal of a forum is to educate others, and one way to do that is try to post unbiased facts.
And also as I said, I don't care whether smart meters are installed or not, but just like the fraudulent vaccine scare, this fraudulent scare about RF from smart meters causing disease just doesn't sit well with me. Nor not I believe in space aliens, psychic predictions of the future, homeopathy, the healing power of crystals, or most religious statements. So I will keep posting a reasonable position as my public service. And you do have another choice, unsubscribe from PGE...it's just that simple. And if irrational people from the left and from the right (tea party) are against something, it's probably a sign to support it for all of us in the center.[/QUOTE]

Thank you broadbandersnatch! And reminder to folks, check the other post I put up on wacco that has the newly published Sage Report that is ALL about the Science that Rob is speaking about. See: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showth...190#post127190.. or the actual report site here: https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

[
Interesting presentation by a guy who is more quailified to speak knowledgeably on the subject of the proposed dangers of smart meters than most of us.
Worth watching, even if you're just a cell phone user who worries about long term effects of RF. He elucidates on the subject of relatively low levels not being the whole story with the system. Pretty good presentation with some scientific background that I found helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLeC...ayer_embedded#!

QUOTE=spam1;127355]No, I didn't suppose so. You don't want to be confused by the facts. I, on the other hand, could be convinced the other direction (it is rational to think it is possible for RF to cause disease, but so far the preponderance of the evidence says at most small risk for even large RF energy of hand held phones and I infer smaller risk for smart meters that produce 1/400,000 the energy ). I would be curious, however, if you do own a cell phone or a cordless phone or have ever used one?
And as I said, the RF question is completely unrelated to the question of meters that can monitor usage and charge time of use rates. But one goal of a forum is to educate others, and one way to do that is try to post unbiased facts.
And also as I said, I don't care whether smart meters are installed or not, but just like the fraudulent vaccine scare, this fraudulent scare about RF from smart meters causing disease just doesn't sit well with me. Nor not I believe in space aliens, psychic predictions of the future, homeopathy, the healing power of crystals, or most religious statements. So I will keep posting a reasonable position as my public service. And you do have another choice, unsubscribe from PGE...it's just that simple. And if irrational people from the left and from the right (tea party) are against something, it's probably a sign to support it for all of us in the center.

---

[/QUOTE]

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

[
Interesting presentation by a guy who is more quailified to speak knowledgeably on the subject of the proposed dangers of smart meters than most of us.
Worth watching, even if you're just a cell phone user who worries about long term effects of RF. He elucidates on the subject of relatively low levels not being the whole story with the system. Pretty good presentation with some scientific background that I found helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLeC...ayer_embedded#!

---

I watch this in its entirety and I notice that he only cites reports for Cherry and Havas which seem to be the only researchers who find these effects. Just a year before the San Francisco Dept of Public Health issued a report ( https://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/repo...dRpt032001.pdf ) that concluded "this review has not found substantial epidemiological evidence to support an
association of radiofrequency radiation with cancer. Furthermore, two prior San Francisco childhood
cancer studies found no evidence of childhood cancer clusters in the neighborhoods surrounding the
tower. The association of adult and childhood cancers and broadcast tower RFR exposure do not appear
to be supported by the epidemiological literature, therefore studies of neighborhoods near the tower are
not warranted at this time". It's informing to note that that these negative results are never mentioned those who have already reached a conclusion.

With respect to ElectroSensistivity, I have yet to find one example except Havas, which has been quoted and requoted so many times that it seems there are "many reports" that all go back to a single author. A google search on "wifi heartrate" produces many results, every single one of which that indicates wifi affects heart rates goes back to this single report. My conclusion is that there is exactly 1 result showing an effect. I don't say that it can't happen, but if the effect was so strong as to be a concern, I would think that some major research institute would be able to reproduce it.

What I haven't seen is a single report from a well respected research center; show me something from UC Berkeley, Standford, UCLA, MIT, Harvard Medical or Caltech? Most studies that are well controlled and well done always end up with the problem of "a priori hypothesis" and many studies don't consider the "null case", typically because the researchers are not well based in statistics.

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Posted in reply to the post by spam1:

... he only cites reports for Cherry and Havas which seem to be the only researchers who find these effects.... Most studies that are well controlled and well done always end up with the problem of "a priori hypothesis" and many studies don't consider the "null case", typically because the researchers are not well based in statistics.

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that's what I saw as well. The interpretation of medical statistics is really really hard. Even among professionals it's a problem, and when us amateurs try to determine what to believe it's especially tricky. So of course you can't say that EMF is harmless, and that electrosensitives don't exist as such. But there's certainly no compelling evidence that EMF does cause harm at these levels and that people (and bleeding trees) really do react to cell-phone radiation. So we're back to choosing which wars to fight. One point the guy in the video made, that this is potentially sustained, rather than intermittent, radiation does make sense - if you accept that there's a problem at all. I'm not overly impressed with his credentials - he's in related fields, but not a specialist, and Havas is even less well credentialed. He also claims that in civil engineering the standards always are set to account for the worst-case risk which is disingenuous at best, further hurting his credibility. He's an appealing speaker, though.
In the end, though, as several other posters have touched on, we're surrounded by nasty health risks imposed on us by modern society. This one seems like an odd one to push to the head of the list, though it's one of the few that maybe can be resisted with tinfoil hats.

Here is just a smattering of the many links to recent studies and excerpts showing harmful effects of low level radiation from all sorts of wireless technologies emitting low level radiation as posted in the US National Laboratory of Medicine, all published in 2010.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20807179.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20807176.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20809504
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20701462
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20622138
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816824
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20816755
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20607743
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20824388
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20690107
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20569191
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20176397

And here is a very good story by Michael Segell of Prevention Magazine citing all sorts of studies including some being done in US, published one year ago, and printed in main stream MSNBC: .https://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34509513/ns/health-cancer/

And finally, here is another page from a site called Power Watch that has numerous down-loadable reports on EMF harm / un-safety. https://www.powerwatch.org.uk/library/index.asp. (Note: Just because a report is not about Smart Meters, as per say, it may be about the same technology containing same / similar amounts of RF Pulse radiation.

ONE OF THE WORST THINGS ABOUT SMART METERS COMPARED WITH CELL PHONES, WI FI, ETC. IS THAT WE HAVE A CHOICE ABOUT USING THEM; BUT NOT WITH SMART METERS. IT'S ALSO A VIOLATION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS BECAUSE PG&E IS NOT THE GOVT. THEY ARE A PUBLICLY TRADED CORPORATION; THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO READ AND MAINTAIN THEIR METERS, BUT NOT CHANGE OUR QUALITY OF LIFE.

I don't have the time that others on this thread seem to have to write about all my personal opinions and conclusions, besides, I'm not a scientist. I just know that the evidence has been compiling for probably 20 + years on the potential harms of EMF / RF radiation (probably much longer - I saw some studies back to the 1970's); and I simply can't stand by and act like what I've presented is just a bunch of irrational / Ignorant blather as a few on this thread have tried to insinuate. I feel I must respond with actual documentation (as I have time and as i receive it) so people can can decide for themselves. :heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by spam1:

I watch this in its entirety and I notice that he only cites reports for Cherry and Havas which seem to be the only researchers who find these effects. Just a year before the San Francisco Dept of Public Health issued a report ( https://www.sfdph.org/dph/files/repo...dRpt032001.pdf ) that concluded "this review has not found substantial epidemiological evidence to support an association of radiofrequency radiation with cancer. Furthermore, two prior San Francisco childhood
cancer studies found no evidence of childhood cancer clusters in the neighborhoods surrounding the tower. The association of adult and childhood cancers and broadcast tower RFR exposure do not appear to be supported by the epidemiological literature, therefore studies of neighborhoods near the tower are not warranted at this time". It's informing to note that that these negative results are never mentioned those who have already reached a conclusion.

With respect to ElectroSensistivity, I have yet to find one example except Havas, which has been quoted and requoted so many times that it seems there are "many reports" that all go back to a single author. A google search on "wifi heartrate" produces many results, every single one of which that indicates wifi affects heart rates goes back to this single report. My conclusion is that there is exactly 1 result showing an effect. I don't say that it can't happen, but if the effect was so strong as to be a concern, I would think that some major research institute would be able to reproduce it.

What I haven't seen is a single report from a well respected research center; show me something from UC Berkeley, Standford, UCLA, MIT, Harvard Medical or Caltech? Most studies that are well controlled and well done always end up with the problem of "a priori hypothesis" and many studies don't consider the "null case", typically because the researchers are not well based in statistics.

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For those who've been following this thread, I wanted to call your attention to a new article that just came out in the NY Times regarding The CPUC's considering whether to offer wired or opt-out alternatives to wireless SmartMeter's due to the large number of northern CA folks opposed to them. See WaccoBB link here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...eters-Persists

And original NY Times article here: https://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2011/0...ute-96087.html

Thought it was important to change the subject line to add Marin. Peggy

Pretty soon we can ad Mendocino too. They are just starting to get mobilized up there, as the meters are not yet, but about to be deployed. They're having a Mendocino board of supes meeting on Jan 25 to discuss the possibilities of a moratorium or opt-out choice for Smartmeter. I wonder how many are on this board from Mendo yet?

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Posted in reply to the post by Two Riders:

Do you think "chasing them off" is going to stop them? I don't understand the fuss. EMFs are all around us, how is not having a smart meter going to change the effects from an environment that is already flooded with EMFs? I live in Sebastopol, asked for and got a smart meter last May. No problems so far. Probably less signal strength than the wireless router, microwave and cel phone.

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Because,Smart meters work like a cell phone.
they are completely traceable,and fully capable of recording and transmitting information about every single thing you do that's electric
in your entire property.welcome to the future,and your borg home.,as for emf's I am reminded of the guy I met in Mexico who said about
d. d .t ." Heck ,I DRINK the stuff, and it doesn't hurt me."..(yet)...wonder how he's doing now 20 years later.

Smartmeters may be capable of transmitting information about the energy use of particular appliances, but at the moment that information is not available to them: you need to get a "smart appliance" or retrofit your appliance with a sensor to monitor its energy use and communicate that to the Smartmeter.

It's probably possible to develop software that can guess with a good accuracy what appliance is responsible for a spike in your energy use, as in this explanation and discussion of the smart energy project Goggle is working on.

https://earth2tech.files.wordpress.c...pg?w=430&h=274

https://gigaom.com/cleantech/google-...r-energy-data/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dx38hzRWDQ&feature=player_embedded

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Posted in reply to the post by nicofrog:

Because, Smart meters work like a cell phone. they are completely traceable,and fully capable of recording and transmitting information about every single thing you do that's electric in your entire

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Every day "Big Brother" finds new ways to track the activity of our fellow man. With Smart Meters invading our homes, observing our energy usage and any intangibles related to energy use, the manner with which we lead our lives, without scrutiny, has lost another dimension. EMF's are much less relevant to this issue, than our personal privacy. Once lost, it's virtually impossible to get it back.

PG&E is indeed not the best entity to implement a Smart Meter program.

But the community has a clear interest in making sure people do not waste energy, since that energy is produced in a manner that affects the community in negative way: atmospheric pollutants and other environmental impacts, but also the economic negativities of waste and other health impacts of the energy network.

What other ways can you think of to balance these two interests?

Bob, you saw the legal doc. I had attached here somewhere (can find for you if you need me to) to either file a small claims court action if you have a smart meter installed, and another "notice" that they could be sued if they have not put on a smart meter yet, warning them not to install? We have to fight them from all angles; privacy and health are all important to the various citizens involved in the fight. We just need not to fight among one another as to which part of the Smart Meter issue you care more about; Let's just all come together and battle this thing. Believe me, it's a lot easier for them to take up the fight than us because all of their political activists will be paid lobbyists vs. the people who are working their butts off just to survive., and this battle will be volunteer, the only, and extremely important benefit is keeping our constitutional and health freedoms.

Did you see the article I posted on wacco the other day https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...764#post127764? This article talks about the CPUC looking at other possibilities such as a new wired meter and ways to opt out of the wireless smart meter. So to balance what the two interests, it's not necessary, and apparently contradictory (i.e. health concerns in the environment to use wireless smart meters) to use the wireless smart meter technology.

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Posted in reply to the post by Zeno Swijtink:

PG&E is indeed not the best entity to implement a Smart Meter program.

But the community has a clear interest in making sure people do not waste energy, since that energy is produced in a manner that affects the community in negative way: atmospheric pollutants and other environmental impacts, but also the economic negativities of waste and other health impacts of the energy network.

What other ways can you think of to balance these two interests?

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Zeno Swijtink:

PG&E is indeed not the best entity to implement a Smart Meter program.

But the community has a clear interest in making sure people do not waste energy, since that energy is produced in a manner that affects the community in negative way: atmospheric pollutants and other environmental impacts, but also the economic negativities of waste and other health impacts of the energy network.

What other ways can you think of to balance these two interests?

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Smart Meters do not measure pollution or pollutants, nor are all energy producing processes damaging They are also not capable of determining if the energy is wasted, or just how it is being used............yet. They do create trending patterns, allowing utilities to begin augmentation of Demand based billing, floating the billing rates as they see fit. The regulatory process has been flawed for almost 15 years and is still strongly influenced by big oil and gas.
We live in one of the most energy and environmentally sensitive areas of the country. You could go virtually anywhere else in the country and find energy/environmental waste easier than you would here. Try looking into the residences of our leaders, our celebrities, our rich and famous. Look at how inefficiently our major corporations are being run. Don't make us your "whipping boys" for excessive and probably unethical scrutiny.
Lastly, the first sentence of your dialog mentions The community concern regarding waste. This is not community scrutiny, but a major corporation, who will do the best job they can to turn their new data acquisition systems into money in their pockets, at our expense. I was an Environmental Specialist for an investor owned utility for over 14 years and they had much higher scruples than P,G & E ever will. They cannot be trusted.

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Posted in reply to the post by boB Phelps:

Every day "Big Brother" finds new ways to track the activity of our fellow man. With Smart Meters invading our homes, observing our energy usage and any intangibles related to energy use, the manner with which we lead our lives, without scrutiny, has lost another dimension. EMF's are much less relevant to this issue, than our personal privacy. Once lost, it's virtually impossible to get it back.

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Well, thanks for that, Bro Bob. Let me say this about that. As long as the dreaded smartmeter doesn't monitor our precious bodily fluids and take them away in the middle of the night without our knowledge mebbe I'm a gonna be OK. :tiphat:

I recall a story I read a long time ago, by Robert Heinlein, prescient as he so often was; it was called "Waldo" (that's a wikilink). In his story, the radiant energy put into the air is also a hazard ignored by most people but it's finally recognized. (I read it a long time ago, and I forget the details.)
But remembering it made me think of an imminent radiant hazard that's going to be at least as scary. We're now talking about low-energy signals, but have any of you noticed the recent release of wireless chargers?? There's a lot of work being done to eliminate power cords and plug-in chargers. If you want to worry about radiant energy, those are going to be far more energetic emitters than anything we're dealing with now - the whole point of them is to pump RF across the room!

Here Here... Save my precious bodily fluids. I for one would love real time cost data resolved down to the device level, not just for electric but for gas and water. I already track my automobile fuel usage and use the data to be more efficient why not at home too?

As I mentioned somewhere earlier, Mendocino Co is now getting up in arms over the unconstitutionality of the Smart Meters, not to mention health concerns to boot! See this article: https://www.ukiahdailyjournal.com/ci_17134070, and note comments at bottom of article as well. If any one wants a sign, bumpersticker, or to take particular action against installed smart meters go here:https://www.refusesmartmeters.com/
They've got a regular business going on to eradicate the meters.... (or you could get ideas and make your own stuff)

Mendocino County Board of Supervisors unanimously adopted a one year Smart Meter moratorium today!!
That makes THREE counties who've passed ordinances against Smart Meters. (Marin, Mendocino and Santa Cruz)

How about SONOMA COUNTY?
Call Supervisor Carrillo, or your supervisor at 565-2241
ALSO call State Senator Noreen Evans and ask her to support the right to opt out AB 37 576-2771
Thanks,
Sandi

I have taken a wait and see attitude toward the Smart meter issue and thought I would post what I have seen so far.

A SM was installed in our house in Santa Rosa a few months ago and the install went OK. I was at home and the very brief power outage did not seem to affect anything. A couple of people on my computer user group reported that the process zapped their electronics, killing computers, modems, routers, printers, etc. They applied to PG&E for reparations.

When it was very quiet I began to notice a humming sound coming from my boom box when it was turned off. I did not realize it was related to the SM till I heard someone mention on the radio that since their SM was installed their electronics had been humming when off. My more expensive electronics including my computer are plugged into an uninteruptable power supply battery backup that "conditions" electricity. I may need to plug my boom box into that too.

A couple weeks ago a friend who lives in the Rosenberg building at the corner of 4th and Mendocino mentioned the building had been out of hot water for three days. Later he told me that his 2nd floor apartment was flooded, and the flood was due to pipes freezing in that very cold weather we had. It seems that the SM system decided the building was using too much electricity and shut off power to the hot water heating system, thus allowing the pipes to freeze. Multiple apartments were flooded as water cascaded from the top floor down through the building.

The Smart M System does not turn electricity off because of too much usage! I just talked to PG&E. The only time they cut your power off is when you didn't pay your bills. The Rosenberg building probably had some other problems. please check it out.

My friend told me that was what they were told by the building management, but it could be that the SM has become a convenient scapegoat. On the other hand, it seems that SMs are capable of turning off stuff without PG&E having a clue.

https://rdist.root.org/2010/02/15/re...a-smart-meter/

The information you pointed to is so very important, I decided to paste some of it here. Seems from the first comment, it is already being used to turn off air conditioners in New Jersey.

February 15, 2010

Reverse-engineering a smart meter

Filed under: Embedded,Hacking,Hardware,Reverse engineering,RFID,Security — Nate Lawson @ 7:00 am

In 2008, a nice man from PG&E came out to work on my house. He installed a new body for the gas meter and said someone would come by later to install the electronics module to make it a “smart meter“. Since I work with security for embedded systems, this didn’t sound very exciting. I read up on smart meters and found they not only broadcast billing information (something I consider only a small privacy risk) but also provide remote control. A software bug, typo at the control center, or hacker could potentially turn off my power and gas. But how vulnerable was I actually?

https://rdist.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=229&h=300

I decided to look into how smart meters work. Since the electronics module never was installed, I called up various parts supply houses to try to buy one. They were quite suspicious, requesting company background info and letterhead before deciding if they could send an evaluation sample. Even though this was long before IOActive outed smart meter flaws to CNN, they had obviously gotten the message that these weren’t just ordinary valves or pipes.

Power, gas, and water meters have a long history of tampering attacks. People have drilled into them, shorted them out, slowed them down, and rewired them to run backwards. I don’t think I need to mention that doing those kinds of things is extremely dangerous and illegal. This history is probably why the parts supplier wasn’t eager to sell any smart meter boards to the public.
There’s always an easier way. By analyzing the vendor’s website, I guessed that they use the same radio module across product lines and other markets wouldn’t be so paranoid. Sure enough, the radio module for a water meter made by the same vendor was available on Ebay for $30. It arrived a few days later.

The case was hard plastic to prevent water damage. I used a bright light and careful tapping to be sure I wasn’t going to cut into anything with the Dremel. I cut a small window to see inside and identified where else to cut. I could see some of the radio circuitry and the battery connector.

https://rdist.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=300&h=225

After more cutting, it appeared that the battery was held against the board by the case and had spring-loaded contacts (see above). This would probably zeroize the device’s memory if it was cut open by someone trying to cheat the system. I applied hot glue to hold the contacts to the board and then cut away the rest of the enclosure.

https://rdist.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=300&h=282

Inside, the board had a standard MSP430F148 microcontroller and a metal cage with the radio circuitry underneath. I was in luck. I had previously obtained all the tools for working with the MSP430 in the Fastrak transponder. These CPUs are popular in the RFID world because they are very low power. I used the datasheet to identify the JTAG pinouts on this particular model and found the vendor even provided handy pads for them.

https://rdist.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=225&h=300

Since the pads matched the standard 0.1″ header spacing, I soldered a section of header directly to the board. For the ground pin, I ran a small wire to an appropriate location found with my multimeter. Then I added more hot glue to stabilize the header. I connected the JTAG cable to my programmer. The moment of truth was at hand — was the lock bit set?

https://rdist.files.wordpress.com/20...pg?w=290&h=300

Not surprisingly (if you read about the Fastrak project), the lock bit was not set and I was able to dump the firmware. I loaded it into the IDA Pro disassembler via the MSP430 CPU plugin. The remainder of the work would be to trace the board’s IO pins to identify how the microcontroller interfaced with the radio and look for protocol handling routines in the firmware to find crypto or other security flaws.

I haven’t had time to complete the firmware analysis yet. Given the basic crypto flaws in other smart meter firmware (such as Travis Goodspeed finding a PRNG whose design was probably drawn in crayon), I expect there would be other stomach-churning findings in this one. Not even taking rudimentary measures such as setting the lock bit does not bode well for its security.

I am not against the concept of smart meters. The remote reading feature could save a lot of money and dog bites with relatively minimal privacy exposure, even if the crypto was weak. I would be fine if power companies offered an opt-in remote control feature in exchange for lower rates. Perhaps this feature could be limited to cutting a house’s power to 2000 watts or something.

However, something as important as turning off power completely should require a truck roll. A person driving a truck will not turn off the mayor’s power or hundreds of houses at once without asking questions. A computer will. Remote control should not be a mandatory feature bundled with remote reading.

Comments (40)

40 Comments

1. “I would be fine if power companies offered an opt-in remote control feature in exchange for lower rates. Perhaps this feature could be limited to cutting a house’s power to 2000 watts or something.”
   The power company (PSE&G? I can’t remember) that serves a relatives’ house in New Jersey has been doing this for something on the order of a decade. My relatives get better electricity rates in the summer in exchange for PSE&G being able to disable their central A/C for up to two hours in peak load times. (The agreement has stated limits on how long and for how often the central A/C can be disabled for.)
   In nearly all cases, this just results in the A/C running harder during the non-disabled periods, however this is advantageous for PSE&G because they can control which A/C units are running when, as opposed to the possibility that all A/C units on the system will trip their thermostats at the same time.
   Comment by Andy — February 15, 2010 @ 10:54 am
   
   
   
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     Right, that’s the way I think it should work. There should be a local override so if you really want to turn your AC on, you just end up paying more. Having a remote disconnect feature is what I find most dangerous about these systems. After that, maybe forged billing records would be a secondary concern.

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Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

My friend told me that was what they were told by the building management, but it could be that the SM has become a convenient scapegoat. On the other hand, it seems that SMs are capable of turning off stuff without PG&E having a clue.

https://rdist.root.org/2010/02/15/re...a-smart-meter/

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yep, while I'm unconvinced about any significant health risks posed by these, if you generally want to resist big brother you're going to hate these. Because they certainly do give PG&E a much finer-grained control. However, when you purchase a service, over the years the providers of it are going to get more sophisticated than the original drop-the-coal-off-in-the-cellar approach that was common last century. So I do find it so last-century to wish that the features remain the way they were with the old dial meters. Kind of like the way Sacramentans resist having -any- water meters.
But they're sure hackable. The proverbial Ukrainians can probably shut them off at will. So we'll be more vulnerable. Of course, realize that the controllers for the big distribution lines are pretty likely to be nearly as poorly designed, and they make much better targets for hackery. Can't wait....

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Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

My friend told me that was what they were told by the building management, but it could be that the SM has become a convenient scapegoat. On the other hand, it seems that SMs are capable of turning off stuff without PG&E having a clue.

https://rdist.root.org/2010/02/15/re...a-smart-meter/

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PG&E told me the SMs are not able to cut the power off. I asked if in the near future they told me no.

Actually as one of the citizens chosen to sit on the PG& E Citizens advisory board (chosen by PG& E for being one of several with a big mouth complaining about the smart meters), Austin Sharp, of PG&E told us that Yes the smart meters can shut off the power. It's as simple as a remote control turning it off. It's actually the meter is shut down, thus shutting down your power. Or were you referring to the power surges that can shut off appliances or devices through overload, or make them act funny? This also has been documented. Here's an article that talks about it: https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/smart-meter-interfering-with-your-appliances-well-be-right-out-smart-meter-interfering-with-your-sleep-sorry-youre-out-of-luck/
And here is the link to the recent Sage report (https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/) as discussed earlier today on KPFA with Layna Berman on her show "Your Own Health and Fitness. See Layna's page on that here, you can also see where to listen to todays show: https://www.yourownhealthandfitness.org/radioshow.php

Not too sure why you would believe PG&E is a good source for the truth.
Peggy

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Posted in reply to the post by edie:

The Smart M System does not turn electricity off because of too much usage! I just talked to PG&E. The only time they cut your power off is when you didn't pay your bills. The Rosenberg building probably had some other problems. please check it out.

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Not too sure why you would believe PG&E is a good source for the truth.
Peggy

This is the big question... PG&E or something somebody said that somebody told somebody said so and so...

Could you elaborate what you mean Edie, by "...or something somebody said that somebody told somebody said so and so..."? I think there have been lots of documentation here.

I think Eddie is referring specifically to the post about the pipes freezing because of the smart meter turning off the hot water heater. The first I thought when I read that was that management is lying. With or without a smart meter pge has no way to reach into your house and control your devices.

yet

But .... that is the plan! Hope you saw my post about how they are already doing that in New Jersey and the appliances are being designed and marketed all over the internet. YES, there is a way.

And, this is precisely WHY I am so passionate about fighting the installations in the first place. Government of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation is the real issue here and, if you are going to defend a giant corporation, you might very well be shooting yourself in the foot.

Peggy

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Posted in reply to the post by bythe9s:

I think Eddie is referring specifically to the post about the pipes freezing because of the smart meter turning off the hot water heater. The first I thought when I read that was that management is lying. With or without a smart meter pge has no way to reach into your house and control your devices.

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phooph, can you tell me more about the electrics humming with the sm. I don't even have one but my neighbors is about 15 ft from my bedroom and I've been hearing a pulsing electric sound that doesn't stop when it's very quiet, usually at night.

Also started having some agitation, and lack of sleep and appetite. Thinking of having an emf expert come to the house to see if I can do anything.

My boom box now makes a very low electronic hum like when a station stops broadcasting and you have dead air but the radio is on. The trouble is, it is doing this when it is off. I am sitting next to it right now and it's quiet in the room so I can hear it. I have had it for 15 years and it never made a sound when it was off until after the Smart Meter was installed. When I first heard it I was concerned because it is close to where I sleep. I couldn't figure out why it would suddenly begin doing this until I heard someone on the radio mention it has been happening to them since the Smart Meter went in. Silly me didn't make the connection on my own.

Have you approached your neighbor's SM to see if the sound is coming from it?

I would like to add that I read on a forum (for people who had smart meter installed) that a man who is an amateur radio enthusiast said he was having static coming in bursts that he believed coincided with the installation of the smart meter. There was also a guy who was an audiophile with a really high-end system who said he was experiencing the same thing. So for all the naysayers and tinfoil hat ridiculers,'splain this away please.

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Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

My boom box now makes a very low electronic hum like when a station stops broadcasting and you have dead air but the radio is on. The trouble is, it is doing this when it is off. I am sitting next to it right now and it's quiet in the room so I can hear it. I have had it for 15 years and it never made a sound when it was off until after the Smart Meter was installed. When I first heard it I was concerned because it is close to where I sleep. I couldn't figure out why it would suddenly begin doing this until I heard someone on the radio mention it has been happening to them since the Smart Meter went in. Silly me didn't make the connection on my own.

Have you approached your neighbor's SM to see if the sound is coming from it?

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Smart Meters are little computers. As someone who works with computers, I can tell you that they sometimes do things they are not supposed to do. If you read the article by the computer security fellow you would note that he mentioned bugs in the firmware and other programming glitches. Smart Meters are only as smart as the people who program them and software without bugs is rare indeed because typos in code are common.

Then there are mechanical failures. One of the biggest challenges to integrated circuitry is a tiny monster call a tin whisker. Much has been put into the development of special alloys and coatings to try to prevent their occurrence, but they still can wreak havoc with anything electronic. Nasa has a sizable amount of web space dedicated to the tin whisker and its victims.

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Posted in reply to the post by edie:

PG&E told me the SMs are not able to cut the power off. I asked if in the near future they told me no.

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Posted in reply to the post by phooph:

Smart Meters are little computers. As someone who works with computers, I can tell you that they sometimes do things they are not supposed to do. If you read the article by the computer security fellow you would note that he mentioned bugs in the firmware and other programming glitches. Smart Meters are only as smart as the people who program them and software without bugs is rare indeed because typos in code are common. ...

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I don't know about you guys, but I never make typoes! :wink:

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

I would like to add that I read on a forum (for people who had smart meter installed) that a man who is an amateur radio enthusiast said he was having static coming in bursts that he believed coincided with the installation of the smart meter. There was also a guy who was an audiophile with a really high-end system who said he was experiencing the same thing. So for all the naysayers and tinfoil hat ridiculers,'splain this away please.

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:idea: Regarding the buzzing, it's starting to make sense to me now! Given that smart meters are meant to be able to "talk" to your appliances, there needs to be a signal encoded into the power line downstream from the meter. Some version of that technology has been around for a long time, including being used by baby monitors. I don't think its anything dangerous, but I can imagine that it is something extra that your appliances are not expecting, and may well result in some anomalies, especially in those that are very sensitive to power and that any subtle change in their reaction is easy for you to detect ...such as any kind of audio equipment...

Is there an engineer in the house?:magician::confucious::conehead: :anyone:

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

Could you elaborate what you mean Edie, by "...or something somebody said that somebody told somebody said so and so..."? I think there have been lots of documentation here.

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There have been lots of documentation on both sides.

With the broken pipes, I believe its possible that the electricity was turned off after the building was flooded. I do not know anything about that building, therefore I am not able to say what happened there, but lots of people have something to say about it, then it turns into gossip.

When I talked to PG&E they told me the SM by itself is not able to cut power off, and wouldn't because it is a possible danger to people with life support etc. PG said legally they can not do that.

Appliances will be designed to monitor the electric usage- by you mostly, for you to save electricity, I was reading. I found out that the SMs are not in a long run ready to control your home. Would they ever be able to do so? Possible. (legally-no-PG said) Why then? To bug us? To get us mad? To control us? To get our money or perhaps in fifty years or so we might not have enough electricity for overpopulated cities at crunch time and somebody needs to take care of that? The old meters are to old- I can understand that.

Trust PG? Trust the other side? I belief it is not Efren Carrillos job to take care of it, he spoke out about this. I can only read and listen to what is said and make up my own mind.

I do not like the SMs. I am even less in favor of the cell phones, the micro waves, children in front of TVs and computers for many hrs, now we'll be getting the electric cars and all the tinkertoys inside... more will be ahead of us thats called evolution... and no, I do not like most of it but I do not see anybody fighting against all that. Why now the SM, the lesser harm?

I can hear a bussing in my bathroom (I found out it is my electric toothbrush), the computer, I can hear my heaters. My radio is out of order and static for over a year, I thought it started when some of my neighbors installed solar panels- what do I know about that? Nothing. Someone told me its possible. Who knows.

My SM was installed summer 2010 but not hooked up to the system as many SMs are not. The meter made is still coming to read the SM.

Perhaps we might be more thinking about improving all that has to do with PG and the SM instead of fighting it, like working together if possible... just my thoughts... I do not think that PG is out to "get us".
edie

Edie, I am sorry, but you are making a lot of statements that show you have not read through all the info and threads on Smart Meters. It has been pointed out over and over that PG&E is a corporation and not the government. They are not like some friendly person to work things out with, they are the monopoly on power in our part of the state, where we have no other choice than to go off the grid. As stated in many links / messages about Smart Meters it has been stated and is true that PG&E is being MANDATED by the CPUC to deploy smart meters all over CA, as are the other Energy companies down south (one called Edison, forget full name). The real battle here to get the choices we deserve as American citizens entitled to our constitutional rights is with the CPUC which is a Government entity. They are not listening to WE the people who have now approved Moratoriums at local levels on smart meters in Mendocino County, Marin County, Santa Cruz County, San Francisco, and many many other areas due to the wide spread controversy on smart meters both at a constitutional level AND at a health level. The CPUC says that they allow the Smart Meters as "safe" because they are approved by the FCC. The FCC say's they are safe but have NOT done any recent studies unlike the MANY MANY studies that have been done internationally on the health effects, etc. The FCC standards for approving RF levels are MUCH higher than that of other countries, therefore they allow them. I don't have time to go back and find for you all of the numerous sites I and others have posted here; so I say, go back and do some reading before you make statements. You are right that many other electrical items are un-safe such as cellphones, wi-fi, TV, etc. These items, at this point are a "choice". The danger w/ smart meters is that they are currently NOT a choice and whether you like it or not, not only will you be forced to have one on your wall, perhaps behind your headboard, but you will be subjected to the radius of the radiation of all surrounding neighbors. Here are are just a couple quick links anyhow: https://www.yourownhealthandfitness.org/ (from Layna Berman,PHD), https://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/ (from Cindy Sage, Scientific Environmental Consultant)https://stopsmartmeters.wordpress.com/. These sites have numerous links to facts and figures, testimonials, and legal documents. Just realize that WE are all in this together as American Citizens. We sometimes have to fight the powers that be, as many know that CPUC and PG&E have been incestuous bed-fellows from the time PG&E was founded (one of the last great highway robbers). My great Grandfather sat on the CPUC board and also owned major stock in PG&E. Just read up, my friend. No insults intended here. P.S. Also remember when you speak to any PG&E activist (on their side) they are paid campaigners, unlike We the people who are struggling just to get by sometimes, but need to take the time to fight to keep our so-called liberties in place.

We are so accustomed to having electricity whenever we want it that we have started thinking of it as a right. Did you ever consider how hard the power provider has to work to continually balance the the amount of electricity being produced to the amount being used? It isn't like water that is stored in tanks and fills the pipes as it is used; electricity must be produced at the same rate at which it is being used. What if our society starts depending more on sun and wind power, and a cloud passes over and the wind dies down for a moment--we will all experience a decrease in power. Is the answer to build more fossil fuel plants just to be ready when that day comes? Or does it make sense to start being able to adapt the amount of electricity our community is using to the amount of power available?? Now there's a radical idea! We have the technology to turn off some of the appliances in homes and factories. It's called smart metering; let's start using it!

Make sure you all READ THIS: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?76084-Stop-Smart-Meters!-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-Wellington-Energy-Whistleblower&p=128401#post128401

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Posted in reply to the post by Sabrina:

Make sure you all READ THIS: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?76084-Stop-Smart-Meters!-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-Wellington-Energy-Whistleblower&p=128401#post128401

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I read this in it's entirety, and just as I said, the very likely the ONLY danger is hot-switching the meter. And that's completely unrelated to whether it is smart or dumb; it's exactly like pulling a big plug, which will spark when the electricity is cut. So, this guy had nothing to say about safety of efficacy after the installation;

One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. Note that this is completely different than controlling a smart appliance. Such a function I would view with concern as poor programming, human error, computer virus etc could in such a case shut down a house or a neighbor hood (now I don't care for myself, we have backup power). This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

-
I am posting the design information from Texas Instruments below. The chart can be seen at: https://focus.ti.com/docs/solution/f...print/407.html. I read the words "supply management" to mean that supply to the home can be turned off remotely.

Peggy Day

Block Diagram


I am pasting the design information from Texas Instruments below. The diagram can be found at :

Design Considerations

For AMR (and AMI) to become truly pervasive it needs to provide more than a reduction in meter reading costs. Optimization for Asset tracking, dynamic pricing, tamper notification, outage management, supply automation, load profiling and network diagnostics are critical elements for the success of this infrastructure. This drives the move from Mechanical Meters towards Static (electronic) meters for all major utilities (Electricity, Water, Gas, Heat).
Currently, meters can be read manually, touch-read (handheld device with a wand or probe), Radio, Bus, Power Line, Modem, or GSM/Satellite. The drivers behind each choice are cost, existing infrastructure, and local regulations. In some regions the usage charge for a radio frequency band is higher than the cost of manual reading, or the local grid may not support communication over the power line (PLC).
In any case, the trend is towards AMR increases the electronics content of the meter itself, and AMI drives a networked infrastructure for all metering. A complete implementation could include power line communication to the electricity meter, and low power wireless communication from the electricity meter to other utility meters. Low power wireless communication to the major loads in the home/business (AC, Heaters, Refrigeration, etc) and would also allow dynamic setting control during power plant peak loading.
Given the need for very low power consumption, microcontrollers like the MSP430 are ideal for any metering application. An advanced electronic meter requires an MCU that offers precise measurements over a wide dynamic range, programmable Flash, non-volatile storage, real-time clock function, flexible display and AMR-enabled communications features. The MSP430 family offers up to up four 16-bit independent sigma-delta converters and programmable gain amplifiers along with specific integrated e-metering modules such as the ESP engine or 32x32 hardware multiplier allowing for easy, high performance metering calculations Utility Metering
As utilities requirements grow, pushing more and more smart functions like load demand response, Tariff management, communication and others, as metrology firmware may require to be qualified and isolated from the rest of the functions, the application layer for the smart electricity meter may require an additional functional unit to the primary Metrology function commonly called a Main MCU or the Application Processor. This MCU will typically require large amount of on-chip flash and connectivity. This can be the MSP430 with devices going up to 256kB flash, allowing leveraging development effort made on the Metrology side. Time to market pushing to software re-uses and easy migration, standard cores are very often required. With over 140 members in its family available today, TI's Stellaris Cortex M3 offers the widest selection of precisely-compatible MCUs in the industry. With many connectivity options, including the unique EMAC PHY+ MAC integrated in one device, many serial port combinations available to accommodate communication options, various flash size offer, TI's Stellaris Cortex M3 enables enabling powerful, cost-effective and simple to program paths for growing application layers for smart electricity meters.
TI’s F28x controller platform provides a cost-effective means to implement PLC technology. Along with advanced DSP cores, the controllers integrate robust peripherals such as analog-to-digital converters (ADCs), timers and pulse-width-modulation (PWM). F28x controllers offer a unique combination of 150 MIPS of 32-bit control-optimized performance, system integration and microcontroller- (MCU) like ease-of-use. This high level of system integration simplifies design and keeps control systems compact and cost-efficient. MCU-like instructions and on-chip flash memory enables rapid prototyping. SW flexibility and scalable performance in the family gives easy migration path from one modulation to another one as communication standards evolve.
Range, network configuration and power consumption are important factors when selecting a Low Power Wireless (LPW)solution. Range is affected by output power, sensitivity and selectivity, which in turn impact the jamming of other signal sources and the ability to distinguish the desired signal from local interferers. Point to Point, Star or Mesh Network choices not only impact these elements, but also the standards and frequency ranges chosen. TI’s LPW/Chipcon product family offers the performance and flexibility needed for Metering AMR and AMI applications.
TI's WiLink™ 6.0 solution, when combined with one of TI's ARM-based microprocessor (MPU) solutions provides a low-power, cost effective means to support broadly deployed wireless network topologies of WLAN (IEEE802.11a/b/g/n) and Bluetooth 2.1+EDR in a single chip. With this solution, Smart Meter customers can connect to a wide range of products such as home wireless routers and residential gateways, enabling the Smart Meter to easily connect to the network.
For the electricity meter, power for the electronics can be derived from the single to 3-phase power lines. For other utilities, the meter would either need to be attached to a power source or leverage an internal battery. In some regions it may also be possible to use rechargeable batteries and small solar cells to recharge them during the day. In order to do this effectively, high efficiency power and battery management devices are necessary.

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Posted in reply to the post by spam1:

One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. ..... This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

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Good point. I haven't looked all that close at one, but I think I would have noticed any modification to the junction box or line-in where a big enough solenoid would have to be added. The big fat three-phase wires would require a big fat electronic switch. I saw no sign of one.

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The danger w/ smart meters is that they are currently NOT a choice and whether you like it or not, not only will you be forced to have one on your wall, perhaps behind your headboard, but you will be subjected to the radius of the radiation of all surrounding neighbors.

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Sabrina, don't worry- I am reading up on radiation, electromagnet fields, the body's electrical system etc since the seventies... and most of what's written about the smart meter for what- over a year now or longer. Your fighting this only because its not your choice?

Can you imagine the electromagnetic traffic on the internet, the radiation pattern of the cellular-phone towers, the path of each cell phone-pattern around us? On top of all that what the military is doing all over the planet- above sky and in the oceans? The future electric cars will have all kinds of electronics built in. We are caught in a spider net of all kinds of man made crap and I have NO choice! You want to fight all this -thats great, even if you fight only for a little bit, thats fantastic. As far as I can make out, the SM is the least problem of all. The cell phones are the larger problem- but they are free choice and fun, so its OK?

Do you have a better way of controlling the future onslaught for the need of electricity? To stop future projects like the smart meter you have to get in touch with the people who are experimenting with the future toys who believe they will improve the world by doing so. Yes its a business- ideas are sold.

How about if ALL of us spent one private day every other week without cellphone, no TV, computers, electric tools, one room only with electric light- candles only. I believe that would make in many ways a fantastic change!

My bigger worries are the taking over the world foods by MONSANTO- that would be something to fight about- but who has the power to do so? Austria is a small country who does fight them very strongly, but for how long can they fight them till they are taken over too?

Edie

Hi Edie,

You ended by asking "My bigger worries are the taking over the world foods by MONSANTO- that would be something to fight about- but who has the power to do so?"

You do. That's what grassroots is all about. As a grandmother I feel passionately about many different issues. Monsanto is up there high on my list. But, as an organizer, I have limited resources. So, when I am contacted by the anti-GMO organizers, I support their efforts in whatever way possible.

I would ask you to put your energies only into the GMO issue but then we who are working to stop the installation of smart meters would suffer a huge loss. It is your well thought out, well worded criticism of the smart meter activism that helps the organizers (I'm not one), prioritize and come up with more research and more cohesive arguments.

The only thing I ask if for you to respect the passion of those who are willing to hit the ground running on this issue and I'm sure they respect your passion on the GMO issue and support it.

We don't know the future, we know that in the past we were told that there was no harm in DDT, tobacco, high-voltage towers, even fertilizers.

Noam Chompski said the only effective change comes from the ground up. Power to the grassroots organizers!

Respectfully,
Peggy Day

Hi Peggy Day,

Well taken...
Edith

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Posted in reply to the post by daynurse:

I read the words "supply management" to mean that supply to the home can be turned off remotely.

Peggy Day

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This just refers to the TI chipset that is designed for smart metering. In the application note, found in the link, it shows the full implementation and shows no possibility of turning off the mains using the designs in the link. The mains appear to be always on with a direct connection. I infer that "supply automation" (I didn't see "supply management") means both smart appliances as well as detecting which parts of the grid are consuming the most power.

In my former career I wrote some code for a much earlier generation of smart meters. The meter itself won't control anything in your house - all it does is tell PG&E about how many kWh you've used during what time slots - for billing. I know some people who have "time of day billing" - PG&E'll give you a huge discount for late night power usage if you're willing to pay a premium for peak afternoon usage - think 6 cents vs 30 cents.

Then what you need to take advantage of this is something like Cisco's "Home Energy Manager". This does NOT talk to the meter - it talks to PG&E through the internet (to get your billing tiers), and to you (through the internet to your PC or smart phone), and (probably by WiFi) to what appliances you have that are controllable (and you have enabled). That way you can program your electric car to charge after midnight (at 6 cents a kWh), and so on.

So, more WiFi, more internet. But you could save a bunch of money if you wanted.

Happy trails!

The way that PG&E explained it to me (and everyone at the customer Advisory group that they invited me and 10 other customers to). is that Yes they Can quickly turn on or off your power "remotely" when there is a smart meter installed (they like to accentuate the "turn on" aspect - as per new customers will no longer have to wait a few days for new service); but they did confirm that "yes" if they are turning off your power, say for non payment, it will happen as quickly as pushing a remote button, rather than waiting for a person to come out and shut it off. This communication of turning on and off is working with just "one" of the transponders inside the meter. There are two transponders (if this is the correct "name" for it). The second one will not be working until a future time when there will be appliances people will be able to purchase (or purchase remote communication devices to place on your appliance) that are designed to "communicate" with your smart meter. This is where "Google Meter" (as someone mentioned earlier - think that's the name) or perhaps "Home Energy Meter", as Stuart mentioned, come in to play; they are designed to be able to read exactly what each appliance is using. This is the way PG&E explained it to us. It is supposed to save us energy, but it also means a lot more wi-fi in your home if you want to take part in that aspect of the program (or also purchasing more devices that "work" with their program, most likely from GE, etc). PG&E says that supposedly the second transponder will not be active until you elect for it to be active with appliances that can communicate with it. But the power on off, yes they can do. However they are very conscientious about the possibility of someone being on any sort of electrical based medical device that could be disrupted. In the past, when I've been behind on my bill, and they're threatening turn off, they always ask " do you have anyone on any sort of electrical medical device" (or some such wording).

Hi Sabrina,

Did PG&E happen to mention how many people they will be laying off because there will be no need for workers to come out and turn power on/off, adding further to unemployment?

Attila

It seems that's been figured somewhere in all the data, and has definitely been a point of contention to them. Maybe someone else knows the numbers? PG&E's answer is that "all of the meter readers are being "offered" to apply for other jobs within the company, but those people are actually not "guaranteed" jobs, which is really bad (they just get to apply, and maybe have some seniority over folks who've not worked for the company yet). I know the Meter Reader by my Mom's house keeps giving her the thumbs up about her stop smart meter sign, and has hinted that he's not looking forward to changing or looking for another job. One of the major PG&E spokespersons for smart meter, Austin Sharp, constantly impresses everyone with the fact that he used to be a meter reader and is now happily employed in a new position. Clearly, part of the idea around smart meter is to save PG&E money, thus, most likely, part of this is cutting job positions, along with getting to charge us higher fees at "peak" times . Now that I am practically the only one in my neighborhood without a smart meter, it's making me wonder if they are just estimating my bill now; as I've not seen a meter reader in months. (the dog always barks when they come)

See Efren's letter in support of AB37 (Jared Huffman's Opt-Out measure) here.

On the 'solar panel installation' thread, the subject of smart gas and water meters came up. What does anyone know about these? Are they the same? I live in Santa Rosa and I know I have something attached to my water meter so they can read it without getting out of their truck. It was installed a year or two ago, I think.

I'm not really sure about the water meters. There is another thread starting up about smart meters here though with maybe more people who may know to? https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...eters&p=128955

Now I think we are asking good questions. I hope people who go to the forums/ council meetings, etc. ask--how this will advance implementation of the smart grid and help us prepare for a future based on renewable energy--

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One question that I have not heard convincingly answered is whether the smart meters being installed contain the capability (as in the form of an internal switch) to actually cut usage to a house. Note that this is completely different than controlling a smart appliance. Such a function I would view with concern as poor programming, human error, computer virus etc could in such a case shut down a house or a neighbor hood (now I don't care for myself, we have backup power). This question is a matter of fact, and I have not heard a conclusive response.which I would be interested in.

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Just for everyone's information, I posted a protest happening at the SF CPUC office under events. You can see it here: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...-San-Francisco

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Posted in reply to the post by Sasu:

Mendocino County Board of Supervisors unanimously adopted a one year Smart Meter moratorium today!!
That makes THREE counties who've passed ordinances against Smart Meters. (Marin, Mendocino and Santa Cruz)

How about SONOMA COUNTY?
Call Supervisor Carrillo, or your supervisor at 565-2241
ALSO call State Senator Noreen Evans and ask her to support the right to opt out AB 37 576-2771
Thanks,
Sandi

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I visited my daughter in Sacramento last week. Also spent some time at my mothers in the house where I grew up, in Sacramento. Both of my adult children live in the Sacramento area. I recently spent a week in the small town of Wickenberg Arizona.
One thing I found common to all these places was that they all had Smart Meters.
I don't think anyone of was aware that they had them, nor were they aware of the problems that people here say go along with Smart Meters.
I live in Sebastopol and I have had a SM since last Spring.
I have not noticed anything different.
I don't know what it is about Sebastopol that makes some people so hypersensitive.

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Posted in reply to the post by Two Riders:

... in Sacramento last week.... spent a week in the small town of Wickenberg Arizona.
One thing I found common to all these places was that they all had Smart Meters.
I don't think anyone of was aware that they had them, nor were they aware of the problems that people here say go along with Smart Meters. .

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slow fat one up the middle, at the start of baseball season no less!
there are a lot of things people in Arizona and Sacramento don't seem to be aware of.....