Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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Just keep on voting for people who vow to cut taxes and the ways government will find to fund itself will become ever more oppressive and draconian.

i haven't been public about this. it makes me uneasy. i feel like the sebastopol pd is over funded. i know of many tix that are questionable.
i warn my friends, visitors & new residents here. it is a speed trap town.
not bad abuse, beating people, etc.
just a general sense of harrassment.
in terms of tix they are zealous. my partner rec'd a speeding tix last year that seemed outrageous.
i have rec'd one tix here in 16 years, cell phone tix that was justified. so i do not have a grudge, nor am i complaining about tix i have rec'd. (i don't agree w. the laws, i was at a stop sign. driving w. my children is so much more dangerous. it's the law & it worked. i rarely talk on my cell phone when driving, & certainly don't here.
i have never complained publicly but i agree they should be "fighting crime".
i do feel like the police don't have much to do here.
this is a speed/tix trap.
i also try to shop locally, but sometimes i want to "get out of dodge", where i am not aware of the harassment of drivers, teens, & bike riders, i am glad for the heads up on jaywalking.
i could have rec'd that tix, so i will be extra careful about that as well.
i'm sure i'm going to offend 1/2 the town, but i don't think our police stance is a healthy one.
not good for business, tourists, or teens.
i want police focused on dangerous practices, real speeding, dangerous driving, crime & best crime prevention.
i have said to friends we ought to loan some officers to richmond, oakland & sf.
seldom felt like i wanted something to be anonymous, but this posting makes me nervous. feel like i'm putting a target on my back.
i have spent the day in drama, rescuing abused animals.
i don't want any more drama, but this certainly struck a chord.
our criminal justice system needs some major overhaul, i have been clear on that for years.
i liked sebastopol as a sleepy town, the ticketing frenzy has seemed to have gotten worse.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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I've lived here for 22 years and have been pulled over only once (for a burnt-out headlight) and it was a positive encounter. I have no problem with the poIice doing their job, and I would like them to have an even higher traffic enforcement profile. As far as I'm concerned, stopping people who are talking on a cell phone while driving (stopped at a stop sign is still driving) is part of "fighting crime". The recent death of a 2 year-old in a crosswalk, killed by a driver who was using a cell phone, is the inevitable result of drivers who ignore the law. I encourage the Sebastopol Police to increase their vigilance in traffic enforcement because it saves lives, not because of a return to the department of a portion of any fine. Far too many drivers blow through our town speeding, tail-gating, using cell phones and rudely ignoring traffic laws and disregarding common courtesy.

How can any stretch of road through our town be a "speed trap" when the speed limits are determined by CalTrans safety engineers and there are plenty of regulatory signs with the speed limits clearly displayed? I don't understand how anyone who is stopped and ticketed for speeding can call it a "speed trap" when the speed limit is clearly shown and it's clearly understood by anyone driving that driving above the speed limit is illegal and punishable by a fine. Where's the trap?

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

i haven't been public about this. it makes me uneasy. i feel like the sebastopol pd is over funded. i know of many tix that are questionable.
i warn my friends, visitors & new residents here. it is a speed trap town.
not bad abuse, beating people, etc.
just a general sense of harrassment.
in terms of tix they are zealous. my partner rec'd a speeding tix last year that seemed outrageous.
i have rec'd one tix here in 16 years, cell phone tix that was justified. so i do not have a grudge, nor am i complaining about tix i have rec'd. (i don't agree w. the laws, i was at a stop sign. driving w. my children is so much more dangerous. it's the law & it worked. i rarely talk on my cell phone when driving, & certainly don't here.
i have never complained publicly but i agree they should be "fighting crime".
i do feel like the police don't have much to do here.
this is a speed/tix trap.
i also try to shop locally, but sometimes i want to "get out of dodge", where i am not aware of the harassment of drivers, teens, & bike riders, i am glad for the heads up on jaywalking.
i could have rec'd that tix, so i will be extra careful about that as well.
i'm sure i'm going to offend 1/2 the town, but i don't think our police stance is a healthy one.
not good for business, tourists, or teens.
i want police focused on dangerous practices, real speeding, dangerous driving, crime & best crime prevention.
i have said to friends we ought to loan some officers to richmond, oakland & sf.
seldom felt like i wanted something to be anonymous, but this posting makes me nervous. feel like i'm putting a target on my back.
i have spent the day in drama, rescuing abused animals.
i don't want any more drama, but this certainly struck a chord.
our criminal justice system needs some major overhaul, i have been clear on that for years.
i liked sebastopol as a sleepy town, the ticketing frenzy has seemed to have gotten worse.

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I hope they booked her and charger her a big fine for endangering the public. I am concerned that there were only four officers to apprehend this criminal, surely we need more Police to protect us from these kind of crimes. I think they should put up a big sign in block lettering "NO SWEET WOMEN ALLOWED TO J WALK". The City should hire more policemen to enforce these laws, certainly the revenue from the additional tickets and fines would pay for the officers salaries. It's well known that all the Progressives around here only obey the laws they feel like obeying, so it only makes common sense to have a huge Police force.

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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great. you have me beat by 6 yrs.
i said i haven't had problems, i said i have observed problems.
it seems a bit progressive.
try to pull out of ragle park & wait til it seems safe.
when you pull out, being w. the flow of traffic, if an officer is their you will be ticketed for 3 mph over, & they may write it for 4 or 5.
i agree many people go to fast on bodega, especially 9.11 curve, but that is sherrifs territory.
when you drive into a town and the speed drops rapidly, w. out warning, that is a "sign" of a speed trap.
there are places where they could tix, by the library, but too crowded.
i am glad your experience has been good.
as i said, personally, mine has, but i give a heads up to all.
teens outside of safeway.
having the same interaction as adults w. kids, but being teens.
teens w. skateboards.
registration paid, but tag expired one month, this is the town where you will get ticketed.
thank goodness for progressive ways to pay for force.
and the schools all have bake sales & car washes & rummage sales for extra curricular activities like art & music.
i'm grateful someone cares about funding art & music.
our priorities are different.
i haven't been in an accident for over 30 years, don't plan to be.
as i said, when i'm stopped in traffic, especially what can be 15 minutes backed up on bodega heading downtown, can be 3-5 lights, i would never again call someone to say i would be late.
i have learned.
killing a 2 year old, hitting anyone, killing anyone is horrible.
geez louise, i think i live in a different town.

go get them, car 54 where are you?? (right on the side street). thank the lord.

A lot has been covered in this thread. Sebastopol is a strange town. It feels safer now that there's a bright blinking crosswalk on Bodega Hwy at the library that will flash obnoxiously in the dark of the night even though no pedestrian is in it or near it. I have great vision normally but this thing is so bright at night when it flashes that I can't tell which side of the street I am driving on as I approach it. I am forced to slow down just in case there actually is someone in the street. Money well spent. Perhaps. I do not plan to hit anybody with my car, or be hit by a car. Ever.

While an innocent lady is being ticketed by four police vehicles, 30 feet away an intoxicated or unaware driver is making a right turn onto a one way street going the wrong direction and hopefully not colliding head on with the driver that is about to round the corner next corner. The entire police force is unaware this ever happens. I've witnessed it a handful of times over the course of my 23 or so years in Sebastopol. I'm always holding my breath as they approach the intersection hoping they won't actually cause a potentially bad collision. Fortunately I have not seen or heard of it happening. But at some point the city may have to install bright flashing lights around the "ONE WAY" sign if unaware drivers still don't get it. I don't advocate such a move but it could happen in a town like Sebastopol. I advocate that drivers, pedestrians, and Jay walkers keep their senses peeled and look out for themselves and the safety of others alike.
I understand and appreciate that the police must do their jobs, including ticketing the Jay walker, but I think one officer can pull that task off just plenty. The other three can search around the corner for my car to ticket for not having a license plate on the front bumper.

i have lived just outside of sebastopol for 23 years and have had many interactions with the sebastopol pd. one of my most recent ones was a ticket for failure to yield to a pedestrian. i fought this one, it took five court appearances. i attribute my sebastopol pd attention to frugality and family values, i drive old funky cars and raise teenagers.

my ticket before that was indeed a expired tag, two weeks past and registration paid, smogged. i learned from riding around with the seb pd for four hours one night how little they really have to do. three cars circling the town practicing proactive policing. the 14 sworn officers are augmented with 12 reserve officers, people who have been trained who volunteer, hoping i guess to be hired. chief weaver is very proud of the department and the volunteer augmented resources. he was willing to talk to me after i challenged the city council to consider changing law enforcement strategies to subcontract with the sheriff dept, potentially saving the city 1 million a yr. he was very well prepared for this question. after having my latest ticket dismissed, not guilty, by the traffic court commissioner, chief weaver declined to talk to me, perhaps because the setting was a restorative justice one, where everyone present agrees to listen.

i feel quite angry and sad about this because i care very deeply about pedestrian and bike safety. i walk and bike a lot and so do many people i love. law enforcement is a limited tool and has understandable self interest. economic segregation facilitated by law enforcement is part of sebastopol civic culture. unquestioning support of the pd will make this more true. we need more crosswalks instead of less like what the city did in front of analy hs. bike trail users need right of way instead of cars when intersecting residential streets and alleys. sebastopol police could get out of cars and ride bikes on the streets, creating the bike presence which will encourage all drivers to slow down and be aware of the more vulnerable people on the road. human powered wheels on the side walk need to be a legal option so that people choosing safety and following the law are not forced to drive to go somewhere.

thanks for reading, ross

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

...i feel quite angry and sad about this because i care very deeply about pedestrian and bike safety. i walk and bike a lot and so do many people i love. law enforcement is a limited tool and has understandable self interest. economic segregation facilitated by law enforcement is part of sebastopol civic culture. unquestioning support of the pd will make this more true. we need more crosswalks instead of less like what the city did in front of analy hs. bike trail users need right of way instead of cars when intersecting residential streets and alleys. sebastopol police could get out of cars and ride bikes on the streets, creating the bike presence which will encourage all drivers to slow down and be aware of the more vulnerable people on the road. human powered wheels on the side walk need to be a legal option so that people choosing safety and following the law are not forced to drive to go somewhere.

thanks for reading, ross

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I don't like bicycles on sidewalks, personally, besides it's against the law. I also don't like bicyclists pushing pedestrian crosswalk buttons when by law they should be flowing with the autos obeying traffic laws like stop signs and lights, stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks.
OK, get this... There should be no on street parking on Main Street and bicycles , skate boards, skates, scooters, etc could then have a safe lane to themselves... of course, the merchants will balk at this but think of it... pedestrians have the sidewalks, human powered motivators are in the curb-most lanes, cars in the middle lanes and if we really get forward thinking, light rail down the middle of highway 12 connecting Sebastopol with Santa Rosa.

in this progressive town, we ought to be able to be smarter.
or as smart.
i was sickened by the library closures, a great place for families to go, & kids to hang out.
great decision.
i assume that was county wide, but fewer police & an open library would better serve this town.
i like your ideas, but given the skate park, likely to take 5-10 years.
cutting the police force seems smart here, dumb in berkeley, richmond, sf, etc.
but police cuts for more bike lanes, fewer library closures, this should be a town "hip" to prevention, if
anywhere.
seems that it's not. i would re-write a more cost effective budget. too bad i pay property taxes & sales tax, but can never vote on a city issue. only my mail address is sebastopol, nothing like living 'out of town' to be disenfranchised.
makes me sad.
loved to be proven otherwise.:heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by tacitus:

I was in Germany this spring and summer, living in a suburb near Hamburg. In the town, the sidewalks were wide and divided into two lanes, one for pedestrians and one for bicyclists. The roads were narrow but that wasn't a great problem as the cars are small. When I first arrived, just off the plane, I went downstairs and got on the train. All very intelligent.

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OK here is mine:
1) No seat belt (yes guilty), no warning or offer, just a ticket; got out of my car and was told get back in or go to jail! Great way to treat the towns citizens.
2) Had a birthday party outside of town (out of their jurisdiction) Sebastopol PD laid in wait as each person left the party and pulled them all over. Has nothing better to do I suppose...
3) A dear friend was walking home from a restaurant the day before July 3rd fireworks (he was in sight of his house). He was arrested and never told what he was charged with, taken to So Co. jail and then prosecuted by the DA.

We have too many officers in Sebastopol and their charter is out of wack with its citizens. The Chief of Police defends this behavior.
They work for us, we pay them, it is upside down
UR

This is like the old telephone message game where the message changes as it gets further from the original message. In the original post in this thread, there are four police officers, one cruiser, and one sweet looking woman. The post below now has four police vehicles and an innocent lady being ticketed while a hypothetically dangerous crime is being committed. It's wishful thinking to hope that the police are always present when 'real' crimes occur while wanting the police to ignore or disregard the 'soft' crimes of citizens who know the law but decide it shouldn't apply to them.

Don't jaywalk, don't ride on the sidewalk, don't speed, don't use a cellphone while driving, don't fail to yield to pedestrians, etc. and you won't have a problem with the police doing their job.

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Posted in reply to the post by try2focus33:

A lot has been covered in this thread. Sebastopol is a strange town. It feels safer now that there's a bright blinking crosswalk on Bodega Hwy at the library that will flash obnoxiously in the dark of the night even though no pedestrian is in it or near it. I have great vision normally but this thing is so bright at night when it flashes that I can't tell which side of the street I am driving on as I approach it. I am forced to slow down just in case there actually is someone in the street. Money well spent. Perhaps. I do not plan to hit anybody with my car, or be hit by a car. Ever.

While an innocent lady is being ticketed by four police vehicles, 30 feet away an intoxicated or unaware driver is making a right turn onto a one way street going the wrong direction and hopefully not colliding head on with the driver that is about to round the corner next corner. The entire police force is unaware this ever happens. I've witnessed it a handful of times over the course of my 23 or so years in Sebastopol. I'm always holding my breath as they approach the intersection hoping they won't actually cause a potentially bad collision. Fortunately I have not seen or heard of it happening. But at some point the city may have to install bright flashing lights around the "ONE WAY" sign if unaware drivers still don't get it. I don't advocate such a move but it could happen in a town like Sebastopol. I advocate that drivers, pedestrians, and Jay walkers keep their senses peeled and look out for themselves and the safety of others alike.
I understand and appreciate that the police must do their jobs, including ticketing the Jay walker, but I think one officer can pull that task off just plenty. The other three can search around the corner for my car to ticket for not having a license plate on the front bumper.

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Okay here is MINE
1. click it or ticket - the signs have been up for years and it has been law for longer than I have been alive.
2. Hard to believe Seb police worked out of their jurisdiction and "laid in wait"
3. Do NOT believe anyone was arrested and not told their crime

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Posted in reply to the post by Uncle Ratty:

OK here is mine:
1) No seat belt (yes guilty), no warning or offer, just a ticket; got out of my car and was told get back in or go to jail! Great way to treat the towns citizens.
2) Had a birthday party outside of town (out of their jurisdiction) Sebastopol PD laid in wait as each person left the party and pulled them all over. Has nothing better to do I suppose...
3) A dear friend was walking home from a restaurant the day before July 3rd fireworks (he was in sight of his house). He was arrested and never told what he was charged with, taken to So Co. jail and then prosecuted by the DA.

We have too many officers in Sebastopol and their charter is out of wack with its citizens. The Chief of Police defends this behavior.
They work for us, we pay them, it is upside down
UR

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can't find the last thread about soft crimes vs. hard crimes.
feeling gutsier now that many feel as tho i do, even stronger.
i do believe the police dept. here is overfunded.
i do believe there should be someone on foot, or bike.
if they are looking for easy money i don't believe dope should be smoked openly in public by underage kids, even tho i do think those kids should be able to talk in front of a grocery store the way i might.
i find when i shop at fircrest, love it, i talk to people shopping. small aisles.
i don't think seat belts are soft crimes, as we pay for these things.
i do feel like this is a bit of a police state, & i have ONLY had 1 tix, re cell phone, & the officer was polite, was at stop sign, don't use now.
i would like a touch of that money to prevention.
library open during christmas.
i know things don't work this way, but the thread is out there. it would be great if something happened.
how 'bout one friendly officer on foot that walks thru the town & improves police relations w. the public. sounds like that would be a good start.

Before continuing to the thread the comment on young people smoking pot reminded me of what I said to my son. I didn't raise him didn't know about him and he came to visit as a 16 year old with his own lifestyle already defined. He really liked the strange gadgets you could smoke pot with and he would go through what would last me 6 months in three days and so I told him how I am with it, that the day is for life the night is for mystery you wreck your dreams getting high in the day time.

Now on to the thread. I made a comment on the article I'm going to post.

If we would get the idiot laws off the books, and a fallible cop wouldn't be able to fuck with you just because he/she liked the feeling of power
and no longer could you get arrested simply for resisting arrest
then the cops wouldn't be able to create the attitudes that gets them killed when they act like they are more equal than us.

___________________________________________________________________________________________

Police fatalities jump 37 percent in 2010

Greg Bluestein, Associated Press Tue Dec 28, 4:30 pm ET
ATLANTA –

Two officers in a remote Alaska town were ambushed as they chatted on a street. A California officer and deputy were killed by an arson suspect with a high-powered rifle as they tried to serve a warrant. Two other officers doing anti-drug work were gunned down by men along a busy Arkansas highway.

These so-called cluster killings of more than one officer helped make 2010 a particularly deadly year for law enforcement. Deaths in the line of duty jumped 37 percent to about 160 from 117 the year before, according to numbers as of Tuesday compiled by the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, a nonprofit that tracks police deaths.

There also was a spike in shooting deaths. Fifty-nine federal, state and local officers were killed by gunfire in 2010, a 20 percent jump from last year's figures, when 49 were killed. The total does not include the death of a Georgia State Patrol trooper shot in the neck Monday night in Atlanta as he tried to make a traffic stop.
And 73 officers died in traffic incidents, a rise from the 51 killed in 2009, according to the data.

Craig Floyd, director of the Washington-based fund, said the rise in fatalities could be an aftershock of the nation's economic troubles as officers in some communities cope with slashed budgets.

"We're asking our officers to do more with less. We're asking them to fight conventional crime, and we're asking them to serve on the front lines in the war against terror," he said.

Last year's toll of 117 officers killed was a 50-year low that encouraged police groups. But this year's total is more the norm than an anomaly: The number of police deaths has topped 160 five times since 2000, including 240 in 2001. The annual toll routinely topped 200 in the 1970s and before that in the 1920s.

The deaths were spread across more than 30 states and Puerto Rico — with the most killings reported in Texas, California, Illinois, Florida and Georgia. The two law enforcement agencies with the most deaths were the California Highway Patrol and the Chicago Police Department, each with five.
Ten of the shooting deaths came from five tragedies in which several officers were shot and killed in groups.
The cluster shootings started in February, when authorities say a Fresno County, Calif. deputy was shot by an arson suspect who had vowed to kill investigators and himself rather than go to prison. The killing led to a daylong gunbattle during which a police officer was also shot and killed. The gunman later killed himself.

In March, San Juan authorities say two park rangers serving as guards at Puerto Rico's Department of Natural Resources were gunned down by invaders who jumped a fence during an attempted robbery.
Two West Memphis police officers doing anti-drug work in May were shot to death by two men wielding AK-47s along an Arkansas interstate. The suspects were later killed in a shootout that injured the local sheriff and a deputy at a crowded Walmart parking lot.

In June, authorities say a man wanted for writing a bad check shot and killed two Tampa, Fla., police officers after he was pulled over at 2:15 a.m. And in August, a man was charged with killing two officers chatting in front of his home in the tiny Alaska village of Hoonah.

Maria Haberfeld, a professor of police science at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, said the rise of community-oriented policing over the last few decades has also had the unintended consequence of lessening the public's respect for officers.

"It's a cascading effect of the people thinking police are here to serve and protect them on an individual basis"

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

can't find the last thread about soft crimes vs. hard crimes.
feeling gutsier now that many feel as tho i do, even stronger.
i do believe the police dept. here is overfunded.
i do believe there should be someone on foot, or bike.
if they are looking for easy money i don't believe dope should be smoked openly in public by underage kids, even tho i do think those kids should be able to talk in front of a grocery store the way i might.
i find when i shop at fircrest, love it, i talk to people shopping. small aisles.
i don't think seat belts are soft crimes, as we pay for these things.
i do feel like this is a bit of a police state, & i have ONLY had 1 tix, re cell phone, & the officer was polite, was at stop sign, don't use now.
i would like a touch of that money to prevention.
library open during christmas.
i know things don't work this way, but the thread is out there. it would be great if something happened.
how 'bout one friendly officer on foot that walks thru the town & improves police relations w. the public. sounds like that would be a good start.

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i don't care what you like. i care about the safety of people who choose to transport themselves by environmentally responsible means. the behaviours you mention, which i occasionally do, are motivated by survival. there is a greater law than the vehical code. today riding bikes for errands and transporting kids to school is a form of direct action, you do what is needed to stay safe. yeah, i like to ride with the cars too, its quite a thrill. ross

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens:

I don't like bicycles on sidewalks, personally, besides it's against the law. I also don't like bicyclists pushing pedestrian crosswalk buttons when by law they should be flowing with the autos obeying traffic laws like stop signs and lights, stopping for pedestrians at crosswalks.
OK, get this... There should be no on street parking on Main Street and bicycles , skate boards, skates, scooters, etc could then have a safe lane to themselves... of course, the merchants will balk at this but think of it... pedestrians have the sidewalks, human powered motivators are in the curb-most lanes, cars in the middle lanes and if we really get forward thinking, light rail down the middle of highway 12 connecting Sebastopol with Santa Rosa.

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i find it very easy to believe that the sebastopol pd would lay in wait. go ahead and ask, they will probably afirm with pride. this is just the kind of proactive policing they celebrate only happens in sebastopol. the sebastopol police know exactly where the town starts and look for problems coming in. they support the city government reaching out to deal with problems, such as buying the trailer park and campground at the laguna on 12 with open space money and shutting it down. squeezing out the poor for the safety of the good citizens of sebastopol.

i also have no problem believing that a police officer would not tell someone what they will be charged with when arrested. this is policy. ross

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Posted in reply to the post by genihouston:

Okay here is MINE
1. click it or ticket - the signs have been up for years and it has been law for longer than I have been alive.
2. Hard to believe Seb police worked out of their jurisdiction and "laid in wait"
3. Do NOT believe anyone was arrested and not told their crime

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

i don't care what you like. i care about the safety of people who choose to transport themselves by environmentally responsible means. the behaviours you mention, which i occasionally do, are motivated by survival. there is a greater law than the vehical code. today riding bikes for errands and transporting kids to school is a form of direct action, you do what is needed to stay safe. yeah, i like to ride with the cars too, its quite a thrill. ross

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Survival my ass... mostly it's laziness and a disregard for anyone but yourself. I'm imagining that usually it's just trying to take a short cut you couldn't take if you rode where you were supposed to. I feel the lanes I've suggested would go a long way toward actual safety.

It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

If we would get the idiot laws off the books, and a fallible cop wouldn't be able to fuck with you just because he/she liked the feeling of power and no longer could you get arrested simply for resisting arrest then the cops wouldn't be able to create the attitudes that gets them killed when they act like they are more equal than us.
"

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I wonder if the Sebastopol family who called 911 for help with a mentally disturbed child who was then murdered by cop shares your opinon?

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Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand:

It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.

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the posting on this has gone wild.
my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand:

It's a strange and disturbing post that blames the on-duty deaths of police officers on the officers themselves. I could not disagree more with this post.

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I couldn't agree more. Where has the police officer of the 20s and 30s gone? The one you would walk up to and ask directions from? The only answer(s) I see are either that they're all now in their cars or the general police mentality has changed from serving the public to something... different in the past hundred years.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

the posting on this has gone wild.
my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

the posting on this has gone wild.
my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.

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Your wish to know more about the Sebastopol Police Department seems sincere. I believe that if you inquire at the PD, you will find out that many of the things you wish for are in fact part of their programs and services, and that you will be pleasantly surprised at the answers to some of your questions. The staff is friendly, accessible and knowledgeable, and takes pride in their good community relations.

Rather than endlessly speculating and wondering, why not just ask someone who knows?! The PD is located at 6850 Laguna Park Way across from the movie theater.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

the posting on this has gone wild.
my intent in responding was to address what i have felt ever since i have been here, that perhaps there is a larger police presence than needed. i have only had these discussions among close friends, so i had no idea what responses there would be. and yes, i am a spirit of the law gal, not a letter of the law person.
a distant dream i had never shared publicly, but my ideal would be to make changes so our police needs were met in a cost effective and friendly manner.

i would love to see an officer on foot downtown, interacting and being a part of the community s/he was serving. (haven't seen a female officer in this town, but doesn't mean we don't have one.)

if the budget was not sacred, we could look at some prevention approaches with a one fewer officer, car, etc.
a police on foot, would hear what community concerns, as well as the officers' perspective, i would love to have a downtown officer or two, the best way to maintain a healthy community is by the involvement of more of its citizens. i would love to see that happening with law enforcement here.

i feel "safe" in and outside of sebastopol. i also feel over policed as well.
how great it would be to have a balance of crime prevention, and not just enforcement. an on foot officer usually great for community relations, as well as crime prevention.

i would want any savings put into a community center, library hours, a study center at the library or youth center. places for tweens and teens to "hang out", like the "y" i had growing up in sf. (teens could hang out, listen to music, play basketball, do community projects; there were two full time "counselors" who were there to talk to, get support from, and much more.
i think we can do better here. i would love support for some different approaches.

we might loose a bit in ticket revenue, but i think our community would be so much healthier.
to have a town that felt a little less "over policed", had access to officers, and a balance between the needs/safety of our town.

---

Thanks for a thoughtful reflection on the police. I agree with the sentiment that cops should primarily enforce the spirit rather than the letter of the law . Plenty of folks just going about their daily lives have their day ruined by an overzealous cop trying to "enforce" the law. When it begins to feel like harassment it becomes a problem. Where I live in west county it is the CHP doing somewhat overzealous traffic enforcement. The sheriff's dept, I'm happy to say, does a great job of actual police work without using the police boot as much as other agencies.

The other point I want to make is in a time of severe budget cutbacks police agencies are at the vanguard of defending their share of the budget instead of taking cutbacks and reductions. Some cities are even instituting sales tax increases rather than reduce police budgets The police say the high salaries are needed to attract officers, but are they really having a hard time getting good applicants? My niece's husband is a police sergeant who after 25 years on the force is taking classes to get his bachelors degree so he can "have career advancement opportunities". He and I both know all he wants is to jack up his salary so he can retire in 3 or 4 years at 90% pay for the rest of his life. When I ask about this he just laughs, actually laughs. These guys have a really sweet deal at the expense of the public and if you dare question it there's a lot of "big dogs" out there that ask if you're not in favor of public safety? I think we could do with fewer cops, especially the ones who have nothing better to do than enforce traffic laws with a bit more enthusiasm than necessary. It's still a free country, right? Do you feel free?

I agree with you on several points, however the last comment there... free is a hard word to use. If I want to, I can drive to, say, Colorado, and start a new job, a new life there. However, if I sped the entire way there, I would expect to be pulled over. Free implies that I can do ANYTHING I want, and we both know that's not true.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Thanks for a thoughtful reflection on the police. I agree with the sentiment that cops should primarily enforce the spirit rather than the letter of the law . Plenty of folks just going about their daily lives have their day ruined by an overzealous cop trying to "enforce" the law. When it begins to feel like harassment it becomes a problem. Where I live in west county it is the CHP doing somewhat overzealous traffic enforcement. The sheriff's dept, I'm happy to say, does a great job of actual police work without using the police boot as much as other agencies.

The other point I want to make is in a time of severe budget cutbacks police agencies are at the vanguard of defending their share of the budget instead of taking cutbacks and reductions. Some cities are even instituting sales tax increases rather than reduce police budgets The police say the high salaries are needed to attract officers, but are they really having a hard time getting good applicants? My niece's husband is a police sergeant who after 25 years on the force is taking classes to get his bachelors degree so he can "have career advancement opportunities". He and I both know all he wants is to jack up his salary so he can retire in 3 or 4 years at 90% pay for the rest of his life. When I ask about this he just laughs, actually laughs. These guys have a really sweet deal at the expense of the public and if you dare question it there's a lot of "big dogs" out there that ask if you're not in favor of public safety? I think we could do with fewer cops, especially the ones who have nothing better to do than enforce traffic laws with a bit more enthusiasm than necessary. It's still a free country, right? Do you feel free?

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Suz:

Your wish to know more about the Sebastopol Police Department seems sincere. I believe that if you inquire at the PD, you will find out that many of the things you wish for are in fact part of their programs and services, and that you will be pleasantly surprised at the answers to some of your questions. The staff is friendly, accessible and knowledgeable, and takes pride in their good community relations.

Rather than endlessly speculating and wondering, why not just ask someone who knows?! The PD is located at 6850 Laguna Park Way across from the movie theater.

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know where it is, have been there.
maybe will try again. they weren't that friendly, they were busy talking to each other.
one person was nice.
it was awhile ago.
will try to stop in w. my kids & ask about the foot patrol. haven't seen one, & see the cars regularly. doesn't seem like anyone has seen one.
if there is a foot patrol presence it's not very visible.
will take you up on you suggestion at some point.
would love to hear about the prevention programs.
tried to talk to the sheriff, we are out of town, about the special needs/mentally ill child who was killed & he was very defensive.
just tried to back out sideways, as we have a special needs son, & have called the sheriff once in our 16 years here for him. wasn't great. have called about 12 years ago in brookings, oregon. one cop came. he was great.
have called most for our neighbor who thru rocks at our horses, tried to play chicken with me while i was on horseback & he was in his car (no crime apparently unless he hit me, the old dv argument.)
worked w. the police in sf, when i was working in domestic violence.
had some friends on the horse force in the park, used to ride w. them.
dear friend is one of the best chp's in the state, right here in sonoma county.
she's very big on seat belt tix, & of course, anything that helps make this a safer county. she has been very informative, very smart.
doesn't eat donuts on principle, brings her lunch.
another good friend, dispatch for a local pd, not sebastopol.
pd in sr is closed on fridays, think it's twice a month. you have to phone to get someone when you are at the station. they are open for emergencies, anything that is not you have to call or wait until monday. state cut back.
think we might be able to loan an officer there on fridays, (know it doesn't work that way but if it did, i think from sitting there waiting for an officer, who was very nice, they could really use the help.)
our police needs are different. this town is teeny. the jurisdiction small. you don't have to go far until the sheriff's kick in.
their was an incident a block away one time when i was living here & every law enforcement vehicle & quasi one was on our road. we had to "go around" to another side of the property & walk in.
i have never seen anything like that in the city.
they don't have that ratio of officers to population, or officers to those present, which on most days, exceeds the population, especially "event days", gay pride parade, giants parade, etc.
i will stop by sometime, when i am out w. my children. would it be good to say you suggested it.
will report back, so all who have concerns can make the trip.
perhaps others will beat me to it & also report in.
will work on maintaining a positive attitude. haven't had a bad experience w. the force here personally, as i earlier stated. my observations, & experiences of friends i trust, and the sheer # and visibility in cars.
i have seen officers out of their cars, by safeway talking to students.
try to avoid downtown at that hour, major backup most days from 2:30-4, other times as well.
citizens & politicians have talked about addressing that but nothing has been done. just gotten worse.
change isn't easy, but always look to be pleasantly surprised.
many of my thoughts are based on living in a larger jurisdiction, & knowing what helped there. i have also lived in smaller towns, but population of both double of sebastopol. neither had the police presence. could be money in one town, not the issue in the other.
this is the only place i have lived where there are so many police visible in cars, or parked on a side street.
i am looking forward to finding out what programs are in place.
perhaps someone else might list them here, i think that would be a good public service.
thanks for the suggestion. will follow up.:heart:

Make an appointment with someone, so that they can make time for you. They are often very busy dealing with what they do, and they have to prioritize emergent problems, and crimes and whatnot. I only suggest that you give 'em a chance to educate you about how it all works.

will take longer, behind on my own medical appts, when i catch up w. those, will call.
thanks for reminding me to not "just stop by". that is what i would have done.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Suz:

Make an appointment with someone, so that they can make time for you. They are often very busy dealing with what they do, and they have to prioritize emergent problems, and crimes and whatnot. I only suggest that you give 'em a chance to educate you about how it all works.

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having a special needs child, & having a partner who is uneasy calling the police, & i am sometimes, but to a lesser degree. i think killed is the right word, murdered is inaccurate and over the top. being a police officer isn't easy. i wouldn't want the job regardless of the great benefits.
being a police officer in a larger jurisdiction seems scarier, & police friends will vouch for it.
the horse back detail in the park was coveted for those who had "burnt out" on the streets. i used to think they should rotate through on that detail, but not possible, as those who were there didn't want to leave, it they did it was very early on. additionally the cost of training was not realistic for my suggestion.
don't know how to post to jbox's thread, it's ok barry, will learn next year!
but agree w. most of the comments.
wanted to add that many government jobs, as noted in the pd, as in press democrat, last week, have outrageous retirement benefits.
i think that most police officers deserve there salary, as do most teachers. in every profession, 1/3 of the people have no business being there.
but salaries for police & teachers i support.
the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack.
i don't believe in the extra school for salary, as most studies for teachers show it is ineffective. would think the same about the police but would be guessing.
we definitely need to address gov't employees benefits, locally, state wide & nationally.
this horrible economic environment will help move us there. one of the few good things to come out of these challenging times.
(there are others i could list, but this post is not about that!!):waccosun:it is gorgeous out, & time to get off this computer & out w. the horses & volunteers. you all just keep posting. never know when one will strike a nerve!

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

I wonder if the Sebastopol family who called 911 for help with a mentally disturbed child who was then murdered by cop shares your opinon?

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i don't understand why you would call someone who chooses to ride a bike instead of drive a car lazy. far more often bike riders choose a longer route to avoid busy car streets. bikes don't activate street sensors so if you want to turn left onto 116 you either wait for a car or push the crosswalk button. i also didn't understand that you were serious about your ideas, thought you were being sarcastic.

it is possible for cars and bikes to share the same streets. visit portland. its all about the culture of driving since cars are confirmed killers and bikes are relatively harmless. the culture of law enforcement is a small part of this. a cop on a bike would make a difference. more bikes on the street would make a bigger difference.

the sebastopol pd is very concerned about pedestrian safety. the tool they have is the vehicle code. they write more tickets per year than any other city in the county, including santa rosa. and people still get run over.

the reason i was judged not guilty by the traffic court commissioner was because the citing officer was 1000' ahead of the crosswalk and probably thought my car was the car 50' behind me. we both saw the pedestrian, but at a different place with a completely different arrangement of cars. i think the commissioner believed me because my testimony was more exact and detailed, easy since i was right there and she was 1000' away, at night.

the problem is believing everything would be ok if others just "rode where you are supposed to." the world is more complicated than that. this kind of thinking stops an officer from actually communicating with the person they pull over, thus wasting lots of time and money. sometimes riding a bike does involve choosing between following the law and personal safety. i guess you choose not to ride. thats a shame because its a great way to get around:)

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Posted in reply to the post by Pterosapiens:

Survival my ass... mostly it's laziness and a disregard for anyone but yourself. I'm imagining that usually it's just trying to take a short cut you couldn't take if you rode where you were supposed to. I feel the lanes I've suggested would go a long way toward actual safety.

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In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

Just want to mention my amusing encounter with a Sebastopol Police Officer earlier this year, as I drove through downtown Sebastopol at 1:30 AM on a week night in my conservative Volkswagon Passat station wagon containing two sleeping german shepherds and me, a 62 year old female , on our way home from san francisco to our home in Occidental.
Needless to say I was the only vehicle around. Sebastopol was so deserted it was other-worldly, and my eyes-lids were so heavy that in order to remain alert I made a game of making the dial on my speedometer move into perfect alinement with the various speed limits posted as one approaches downtown Sebastopol on 116. So absorbed was I with my quest for perfection and control -- the dial had to be exactly on the nose, not a mile over or under the speed limit-- I almost failed to notice in my rear view mirror as I passed the Holiday Inn that I was being followed by a Sebastopol Police Car all lit up and ablink.

The very young officer who came to my window, assessed the situation and, amid the barking of dogs, politely told me that he was stopping me because he didn't see a front license plate on my car when I passed by his roost at the Holiday Inn , but now he could see that there was a front plate, so there was no problem and I could go.

I rest my case.

Hi,
Regarding the comment above: "the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack."
I am a county employee and I have a different perspective. Most county employees, and I assume most local govt. employees, are Not making a salary equal to their counterparts in private business. (Law enforcement officers do earn a high salary, but did you know over 150 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the past year, most from car accidents - the point is we pay people more money for high risk positions.)

Many county unions over the past 20 years agreed to take less than adequate pay increases in exchange for quality health care benefits and a guarantee of pension benefits. Recently the county has attempted to cancel health care benefits for retirees and the cost of health care benefits for employees has started to rise, requiring many to choose Kaiser, the lowest cost provider, while paying out of pocket for additional services, as I do.

The public is no doubt angry about the economy sliding down hill, foreclosures, unemployment, etc., and the govt. salaries and benefits have become a prime target for that anger. Many govt. agencies will be changing their pension plans for newly hired employees - they have that right. However, I think it would be extremely unjust to take away pension benefits from current employees, as they are doing great work for this county, and as I said above, they are not earning a salary equal to private enterprise. In many cases, they stuck with their govt. job because they were providing a service they felt good about, and also, in part, due to the benefits packages and health benefits that were promised.

I'll take any comments off the air. :-) SW

I read the statement below about Sebastopol PD writing more tickets than any city in the county and wondered if this was accurate as no statistics or reference were included. A quick web search revealed that in this specific link (https://speedtrapahead.org/wordpress...s-on-speeders/), Sebastopol indeed leads the county in speeding citations. There are no stats in this article about any other vehicle code citations. As a city tax-payer, I see this as public funds well-spent.

In light of the discussions in this thread about Sebastopol PD being over-staffed, it's interesting to note in this article from Jan 2010 that Chief Weaver is quoted saying that the current staffing is the same as 1986, nearly 25 years ago.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

the sebastopol pd is very concerned about pedestrian safety. the tool they have is the vehicle code. they write more tickets per year than any other city in the county, including santa rosa. and people still get run over.

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that may have been the case in the 50's-70's, that was the idea.
but the realities of 2000 and beyond, and the 90's, & likely the 80's showed people jumping from job to job. their is no security our there, and the "high pay", i guess i don't know anyone but some lawyers making "high pay", certainly doctors, except plastic surgeons & those in specialized fields are getting beyond screwed. thus, the fleeing to kaiser. try to find a general practitioner,internist, a regular doctor. my partner has lost 4 in as many years. the last one has been around over a year, so it is looking hopeful.
if you are making more than $20 an hour, count yourself fortunate. their are very few jobs out there now, and that has been true for many of the economic pullbacks, but clearly for 2008 on, w. no little good news. i know many chronically unemployed for the lst time in my life. i have many friends who are making $12-15 an hour. no benefits, who were making $30 w. benefits. people who are making $20 an hour w. out benefits are lucky.
my medical w. kaiser is over $1k a month, nothing like cancer to make one uninsurable, or very expensive to insure. i was glad when i got the kaiser, very circuitously, because i couldn't get coverage anywhere else. in 3 months i will be able to switch over to my partners "newly acquired benefits" after working in the same job for 16 years, a home care physical therapist, who had challenging educational requirements, yet she has not seen a significant raise in her salary. her paperwork has more than doubled, the time w. patients has been reduced by 60%, she "volunteers" w. some patients to cover them adequately. she made more $ 16 years ago in sf, because this county has a terrible reimbursement rate.
those who are employed at safeway are doing well. i don't think they are hiring. i believe in unions, but when they get greedy, they sell their people down the river. auto industry has other issues, but that is a piece of it.
this post was about police, & this will takes us far in another direction.
although i believe we have a too aggressive dept. & too many police for this town, i stood up for police pay (& teacher pay), & here for doctor pay, which is a good portion a county pay.
regardless of money, i don't want my officers sitting outside of restaurants & bars, waitning to stop sober patrons. the writing is on the wall in calistoga, & we are starting down that path.
i don't want people stopped for a registration someone thinks might be expired, or a front license plate they "thought" was missing.
these incidents, and more are common.
again. haven't been harrased directly, so it's not from my own anger. friends, partners, visitors, teens & more. too many stories, & i have witnessed several of them.
not anti-law enforcement. want good cost-effective law enforcement centered on prevention.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by stevenw:

Hi,
Regarding the com ment above: "the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack."
I am a county employee and I have a different perspective. Most county employees, and I assume most local govt. employees, are Not making a salary equal to their counterparts in private business. (Law enforcement officers do earn a high salary, but did you know over 150 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the past year, most from car accidents - the point is we pay people more money for high risk positions.) Many county unions over the past 20 years agreed to take less than adequate pay increases in exchange for quality health care benefits and a guarantee of pension benefits. Recently the county has attempted to cancel health care benefits for retirees and the cost of health care benefits for employees has started to rise, requiring many to choose Kaiser, the lowest cost provider, while paying out of pocket for additional services, as I do. The public is no doubt angry about the economy sliding down hill, foreclosures, unemployment, etc., and the govt. salaries and benefits have become a prime target for that anger. Many govt. agencies will be changing their pension plans for newly hired employees - they have that right. However, I think it would be extremely unjust to take away pension benefits from current employees, as they are doing great work for this county, and as I said above, they are not earning a salary equal to private enterprise. In many cases, they stuck with their govt. job because they were providing a service they felt good about, and also, in part, due to the benefits packages and health benefits that were promised.
I'll take any comments off the air. :-) SW

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chief weaver shared the statistics with me himself. you found just the beginning of the story. sebastopol has different policing than everywhere else in the county. chief weaver wasn't counting all the reserve officers. i guess it depends who you are. if you're a little bit different, doing something unusual, you are suspect and will be stopped and questioned, at least. sebastopol has one of the highest police cost per citizen per year of sonoma county municipalities. and the department pulls in lots of volunteer/reserve officer energy as well. thats why they can do what they do.

wether you think this is good or bad, the question is what kind of town/society do you want to live in? yes crime stats in sebastopol are very low, that is also true in surrounding west county communities, where sheriff presence is way less, you really need to call them.

i believe, practice, and work for restorative justice. thats when the community comes together to create justice when harm has happened. how can we prevent another teenager from getting run over on 116? or another old person on 12? i agree with chief weaver that traffic is this towns biggest problem. after i was judged not guilty, he was approached to be in a restorative circle with me about my ticket. thats a format where everybody present agrees to listen(if someone does go talk to him be prepared to listen, he has a lot to say). he turned it down, even though he says he supports and believes in restorative justice. this is why i am writing on wacco, as an advocate for restorative justice.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand:

I read the statement below about Sebastopol PD writing more tickets than any city in the county and wondered if this was accurate as no statistics or reference were included. A quick web search revealed that in this specific link (https://speedtrapahead.org/wordpress...s-on-speeders/), Sebastopol indeed leads the county in speeding citations. There are no stats in this article about any other vehicle code citations. As a city tax-payer, I see this as public funds well-spent.

In light of the discussions in this thread about Sebastopol PD being over-staffed, it's interesting to note in this article from Jan 2010 that Chief Weaver is quoted saying that the current staffing is the same as 1986, nearly 25 years ago.

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what if i have done all you recommend and then some? for the last three years i have taught a weekly class for inmates in nonviolent communication at the north county jail. in february i'm scheduled to lead a two hour training with the forty deputies of the mental health mod of the main jail(if they still let me after reading what i have been writing on wacco!). i know many law enforcement officers and have a different opinion of each one of them. in my four hour ride around with the sebastopol pd the longest interaction with the public i witnessed made me very sad. everyone struggled in the situation and the police were definitely the most armored in many meanings of the word.

the police are empowered by society. and they have a lot of power. to dismiss those who question and challenge the job they do, to give the police unquestioning support, is dangerous. in this discussion i name the dangers economic segregation, and roads suitable only for cars. small issues really, unless you are personally effected.

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Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

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now when i tell my friends this town is a speed trap, & if they can find something to stop you for & ticket you they will. have never had a ticket here for speeding. i am not proud to say that my town is known as a speed trap, that officers wait outside bar/restaurants like the hop monk & challenge people. that sounds like a police state & a town that dervives revenue from tix.
i do not want people driving drunk, nor do i want them speeding, in my town, or any town.
i think the stories that have been presented here back up this stop for anything, ticket aggressively for the smallest infraction. my stories are all 2nd hand, but i believe the sources, like my partner of 33 years who was sure she was not speeding. she drives slowly, and in those 33 years has never had a speeding ticket.
she felt over policed, and i agree. since she has never had a speeding ticket, and the officer and her were not going to come to any agreement, she took on line traffic school.
as a home care physical therapist she drives all over west county 3 days a week. for several years she drove to napa. she is a cautious and careful driver, and logs her a number of miles in her profession.
i drive significantly less than the average american, coming in at about 6500 mis. a year. (the average used to be 10k a year, it may be 12k now.
i am not proud of our obsession with stopping people and ticketing for the smallest infraction.
i am not happy when there are over 30 police, sheriff, and every other government vehicle on my road for a potential suicide (who may have threatened harm to someone). there were 2 helicopters as well.
it was funny/ironic in an over the top use of resources way, which is how this post began.
having worked in domestic violence & with law enforcement, this was not my lst suicide/homicide experience, tho, it was never clear to neighbors that it was more than someone threatening suicide.
i imagined it looked more like the stakeout at ruby ridge. we have a couple of photos, will find and post a link to one; warning this could take a month or two, (like visiting the station.)
i would like a town, that not only focuses on prevention, has a pedestrian & bike police presence, and again can find a balance between a the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law.
it seems to me posts are more weighted in this direction. perhaps someone could tally these. not sure how reflective wacco is of sebastopol. if it is reflective of our town, i wonder how many people are concerned enough to take time and action.
it is not on my A list, but i would support an effort if someone spearheaded it.
as it is now, i will continue to tell friends & visitors to be very careful here.
i would prefer to tell people other things about 'my town'.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver shared the statistics with me himself. you found just the beginning of the story. sebastopol has different policing than everywhere else in the county. chief weaver wasn't counting all the reserve officers. i guess it depends who you are. if you're a little bit different, doing something unusual, you are suspect and will be stopped and questioned, at least. sebastopol has one of the highest police cost per citizen per year of sonoma county municipalities. and the department pulls in lots of volunteer/reserve officer energy as well. thats why they can do what they do.

wether you think this is good or bad, the question is what kind of town/society do you want to live in? yes crime stats in sebastopol are very low, that is also true in surrounding west county communities, where sheriff presence is way less, you really need to call them.

i believe, practice, and work for restorative justice. thats when the community comes together to create justice when harm has happened. how can we prevent another teenager from getting run over on 116? or another old person on 12? i agree with chief weaver that traffic is this towns biggest problem. after i was judged not guilty, he was approached to be in a restorative circle with me about my ticket. thats a format where everybody present agrees to listen(if someone does go talk to him be prepared to listen, he has a lot to say). he turned it down, even though he says he supports and believes in restorative justice. this is why i am writing on wacco, as an advocate for restorative justice.

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

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I can't help but feel the local police are an enthusiastic tool for 'Revenue enhancement" whilst using the shield of "Public safety". Does anyone out there know if the number of traffic citations rises year after year, and by how much?

just wrote an extensive post about my history as an employee in the domestic violence field, my support of my friend who has more than 20 of years behind her as one of the finest chp's, and law enforcement officers i have had the pleasure to meet, and in this case lucky to have as a dear friend. (seldom a time she doesn't approach the window with apprehension. like parenthood, one of the hardest jobs you love, and sometimes hate.)

i have worked w. the sfpd on model protocols for domestic violence, which our citizen's police task for drafted, that became policy, locally as well as in many states throughout the nation. we also developed much needed sections on police training that became models for national domestic violence training, these hours of training are have been mandated into ca. law for over 20/25 years. numerous other states adopted some form for training as well. (domestic violence related deaths are the number one common denominator in murders nation wide!)

no question that police need more training in the area of dealing with chemically imbalanced children/teens & adults.
most of my roadside encounters have been positive. the one time i called law enforcement to my house it was helpful in the moment, over the long term, undermining.

i write as a citizen that is not only concerned, personally, and additionally has has solid professional knowledge into the workings of several departments.

nothing has changed my mind from my lst post, about the enthusiastic ticketing that frequently has more to do with numbers than public safety. i was the second thread to the lst post regarding jaywalking and the absurd numbers of police that were involved in this letter of the law christmas ever crime.

i would not want to live in a town with out a police presence. i do not begrudge their salary nor benefits. this is a job i would not want.
several days, many posts of mine, and full readings of others, i stand by my original thoughts of training, prevention, a foot patrol, bike patrols, improved personal relationships and visibility with the community. i think obsessive ticket writing where there might be an infraction, or a border line infraction, is detrimental to our community, police/public relations, and a questionable use of resources.
from the postings here, there seems to be a strong feeling that our policies have devalued respect for the department, created much resentment and frustration, and has resulted in a lack of respect for the important job of a police force.

there have been a handful of posters who see things differently. for the most part, the wacco community would like a more community oriented police department. if we can't see, or are not aware of the programs in place perhaps their should be a public forum where these are presented.

rather than visiting with the department personally a more cost effective, and needed approach would be a series of 3 community forums where the programs of the force are presented; most of us are ignorant to them, a second forum where a question and answer session is made available, so people can understand the police priorities, as well as followup sessions where citizen frustration can be heard.

last time i tried it discussing this with a sherrif the level of defensiveness was great. (i have had a lot of solid interactions with sherrif's where i was happy for their response, and presence. when i have a chance to meet with chief weaver i will express these thoughts. i sincerely hope prior to that time the police will look to host an early evening where they can present their programs, so we don't individually research, or take their limited time to be informed of them.

since the lst "jay walking" post, their seems to be a great frustration and some resentment from the populace. the majority of wacco posters, by individual number, seem to want a more accessible street presence including on foot officers, bicycle officers and an awareness of what prevention programs do exist. hopefully, this will be the last time i am compelled to post on this issue, until such time as i visit the station, or hopefully a community forum is put in place. if the citizenry is not aware of services & programs then visibility for such programs is needed.:yinyang:

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

I can't help but feel the local police are an enthusiastic tool for 'Revenue enhancement" whilst using the shield of "Public safety". Does anyone out there know if the number of traffic citations rises year after year, and by how much?

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

.... i know many law enforcement officers and have a different opinion of each one of them. ...the police are empowered by society. and they have a lot of power. to dismiss those who question and challenge the job they do, to give the police unquestioning support, is dangerous....

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those are well-made points. My own early experiences with the police were with the LAPD and Santa Monica police. There were some really obvious cultural differences between the two organizations, largely due to the differing populations they dealt with. I'm sure the SPD has a pretty well-defined culture of its own. I haven't had a lot of interaction with them, but the times I've dealt with them they were actually really reasonable. If it were my department to run, I'd probably change its priorities but it doesn't seem to be particularly extreme in any direction. Still, it's always good to keep an eye on anyone running around with guns & the power to stop anyone they choose, so this kind of thread is a great use of this forum.

As far as the thread's digression to pension reform goes - it's not the "fault" of the government employees or the unions that they have the deal they do now. To someone living with a ton of economic insecurity, they're an easy target. And a lot of people with pensions seem to find it hard to understand what a luxury that is - even if in absolute terms, it's not necessarily a lot of money. The gaming of the system that's inherent in economics, either by unions, their members, politicians, or businessmen, is always fair game for criticism (re: the officer taking 'training' that's just to pad retirement income). Spotting them is important; usually the first to spot them are those who will exploit them, then (hopefully) they'll get spotted by those who want to address those problems. But the existence of loopholes doesn't indict the whole system. It was a conscious trade-off at the time to buy off employees by offering a hamburger Tuesday rather than a raise today.

agree w. many of your points. something is really wrong when15% of the population is unemployed, another 10-15% underemployed, & another big chunk doesn't have hamburgers on tuesday or a raise on friday!
it' is not just the economic crisis, i have always felt like people should have some deductible on their health care, people need to have a level of responsibility & be in touch.
feel the same way about pensions & retirements. the buck stops where people really can't take care of themselves. arnold made my blood boil when he was looking at cutting in home support services (one of the least expensive, cost effective parts of our health care system.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

those are well-made points. My own early experiences with the police were with the LAPD and Santa Monica police. There were some really obvious cultural differences between the two organizations, largely due to the differing populations they dealt with. I'm sure the SPD has a pretty well-defined culture of its own. I haven't had a lot of interaction with them, but the times I've dealt with them they were actually really reasonable. If it were my department to run, I'd probably change its priorities but it doesn't seem to be particularly extreme in any direction. Still, it's always good to keep an eye on anyone running around with guns & the power to stop anyone they choose, so this kind of thread is a great use of this forum.
As far as the thread's digression to pension reform goes - it's not the "fault" of the government employees or the unions that they have the deal they do now. To someone living with a ton of economic insecurity, they're an easy target. And a lot of people with pensions seem to find it hard to understand what a luxury that is - even if in absolute terms, it's not necessarily a lot of money. The gaming of the system that's inherent in economics, either by unions, their members, politicians, or businessmen, is always fair game for criticism (re: the officer taking 'training' that's just to pad retirement income). Spotting them is important; usually the first to spot them are those who will exploit them, then (hopefully) they'll get spotted by those who want to address those problems. But the existence of loopholes doesn't indict the whole system. It was a conscious trade-off at the time to buy off employees by offering a hamburger Tuesday rather than a raise today.

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Just thought I would quickly chime in and say that the numbers and tone of comments does not necessarily represent the greater body of folks on WaccoBB.net. This thread has posts from folks who felt the desire to post here. I, for one, appreciate the clear message that speeding and traffic violations are not tolerated here. I can actually drive the speed limit and not get tail-gated by impatient drivers.

As for too large of a police presence? There are two police officers on for one shift in the 24 hour day and three police officers on the second shift. That does not feel over-policed to me.

I am sure people have had negative experiences. At the same time, I recently have had some great interactions with local police officers as well as Chief Weaver.

This is the first town I have lived where local on-duty officers smile back or wave when my children wave at them. My kids are not afraid of the police here. It was hard to convince them that police are "helpers" when we lived in other towns.

FYI - something I recently learned: The front doors of the police stationed have never been locked. There is always someone at the front desk 24/7/365 and available to help even if officers on patrol are busy. I find that comforting.

There have been some great point of feedback in this thread. I recommend calling up Chief Weaver and setting up a meeting to bring forth anything that you feel is important. This is our town. The police work for us and I have found them quite responsive when I approach them in a meeting format.

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

the majority of wacco posters, by individual number, seem to want a more accessible street presence including on foot officers, bicycle officers and an awareness of what prevention programs do exist. hopefully, this will be the last time i am compelled to post on this issue, until such time as i visit the station, or hopefully a community forum is put in place. if the citizenry is not aware of services & programs then visibility for such programs is needed.:yinyang:

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I contacted Sebastopol Police Chief Weaver about the J-Walking incident (quoted below) that kicked off this thread. He was kind enough to reply with the following explanation, which seems quite reasonable to me:

Hi, Barry -

I stopped by work this evening and got the story about the pedestrian citation.

This occurred about 3:10 in the afternoon on Christmas Eve. One of our three on-duty officers was conducting a downtown foot patrol. He had a police explorer with him.

A pedestrian entered the crosswalk in front of the officer against the red "don't walk" signal. The officer called to the pedestrian, advising them they needed to return to the sidewalk as it was illegal to cross against the "don't walk" signal.

The pedestrian immediately started berating the officer, explaining that the officer was wasting her time and her money by enforcing this pedestrian law. She added she had a friend or relative in public safety in the bay area and she knew they wouldn't enforce such a minor law.

Seeing a warning wasn't sufficient for the pedestrian to accept their responsibility, the officer determined it was appropriate to issue a citation. Since he was on foot patrol he didn't have his citation book with him, so he asked for an officer in a vehicle to respond with a citation book.

An officer did respond in a vehicle. Also in the vehicle was a newly hired reserve police officer in plain cloths undergoing orientation.

During the contact, the pedestrian was calling out to others in the area, complaining about being cited for the violation.

We have issued a total of three such citations in all of 2010, including this citation.

The City has spent much money and time trying to make Sebastopol safer for pedestrians. This effort includes enforcement of laws regarding pedestrian safety, which are directed at both drivers and pedestrians.

While our main emphasis is on drivers who don't yield to pedestrians, we must also be fair and hold pedestrians accountable for violating traffic laws designed to keep them safe. It must be remembered there have been too many serious collisions in Sebastopol involving pedestrians.

We most commonly use warnings for pedestrian violations; however, when the pedestrian refuses to accept any personal responsibility, a citation is a reasonable outcome.

Take care,

Jeff

And here's the original post:

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:

Just thought I would quickly chime in and say that the numbers and tone of comments does not necessarily represent the greater body of folks on WaccoBB.net. This thread has posts from folks who felt the desire to post here. I, for one, appreciate the clear message that speeding and traffic violations are not tolerated here. I can actually drive the speed limit and not get tail-gated by impatient drivers.

As for too large of a police presence? There are two police officers on for one shift in the 24 hour day and three police officers on the second shift. That does not feel over-policed to me.

I am sure people have had negative experiences. At the same time, I recently have had some great interactions with local police officers as well as Chief Weaver.

This is the first town I have lived where local on-duty officers smile back or wave when my children wave at them. My kids are not afraid of the police here. It was hard to convince them that police are "helpers" when we lived in other towns.

FYI - something I recently learned: The front doors of the police stationed have never been locked. There is always someone at the front desk 24/7/365 and available to help even if officers on patrol are busy. I find that comforting.

There have been some great point of feedback in this thread. I recommend calling up Chief Weaver and setting up a meeting to bring forth anything that you feel is important. This is our town. The police work for us and I have found them quite responsive when I approach them in a meeting format.

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I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

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Yes, it would be great if we could trust people who make obscene amounts of money to always be ethical and trustworthy, that we would trust parents to raise their children without abuse, that people could drink alcohol or use intoxicants in a safe way, or that people would treat each other fairly and with respect... but it seems we can't. People can't even figure out how to use their turns signals! I agree with Barry that we pay the police to protect and serve, and when they make a reasonable lawful request, that they be listened to. If they abuse their power, there are ways to address that! Sorry Rossman, I meet too many people who are intelligent but don't have a lick of sense... too smart for their own good...

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

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I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman .

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sounds like profiling to me.

i believe that the police could do a better job if they listened to people when they were doing their job. from chief weavers account, it sounds like the woman did obey the officers order to get out of the crosswalk. she then chose to express herself forcefully, and thats why she got cited. if the citing officer had chosen to listen to me, then she could have saved me a lot of time and the traffic court and sebastopol time and money. i think sebastopol will have more success in protecting pedestrians from cars if the community is more involved, rather than just depending on the police and laws. the crosswalk changes in front of analy hs are a perfect example of top down government unintended consequences. now all the kids are j walking and the bikes are on the sidewalks!

i wish police were less interested in politics and more interested in feedback from the public about how they are doing their job.
just ross

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

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I agree that the public should be involved, and take responsibility for each person's behavior, individually and collectively. That is what is being done, with elected officials and public employees. Now, if folks would take a bit more care with their own individual actions, it would leave it less to those public officials to intervene. I am a visitor to Sebastopol, since i live outside of Occidental, but my son used to go to school there... I am not sure he was mindful of his teenage behavior and attitude all the time, but i did want him to be safe from others as well. And, I am glad we have this forum to dialogue about it, although I am not sure there will ever be a clear consensus. Why can't we all just get along... I'll do my part if you do yours...Big Smile:Yinyangv:

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

i believe that the police could do a better job if they listened to people when they were doing their job. from chief weavers account, it sounds like the woman did obey the officers order to get out of the crosswalk. she then chose to express herself forcefully, and thats why she got cited. if the citing officer had chosen to listen to me, then she could have saved me a lot of time and the traffic court and sebastopol time and money. i think sebastopol will have more success in protecting pedestrians from cars if the community is more involved, rather than just depending on the police and laws. the crosswalk changes in front of analy hs are a perfect example of top down government unintended consequences. now all the kids are j walking and the bikes are on the sidewalks!

i wish police were less interested in politics and more interested in feedback from the public about how they are doing their job.
just ross

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yeah, all doing our part, what a wonderful place to live. teenagers are a hoot, and the future. i am also a visitor, living just outside of sebastopol, for 23 years. i struggle to be fully responsible for what i do, every day. often the response is, especially from the young, tmi! and that is the gift and burden of our time, so much info at our fingertips! in community, ross

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Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

I agree that the public should be involved, and take responsibility for each person's behavior, individually and collectively. That is what is being done, with elected officials and public employees. Now, if folks would take a bit more care with their own individual actions, it would leave it less to those public officials to intervene. I am a visitor to Sebastopol, since i live outside of Occidental, but my son used to go to school there... I am not sure he was mindful of his teenage behavior and attitude all the time, but i did want him to be safe from others as well. And, I am glad we have this forum to dialogue about it, although I am not sure there will ever be a clear consensus. Why can't we all just get along... I'll do my part if you do yours...Big Smile:Yinyangv:

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Hello Good People,
This is an interesting conversation and I feel compelled to contribute.

Fact..People drive drunk.

Fact..People drive while texting and cell phone using.

Fact..People are killed and injured daily, both in vehicles, on foot and on bikes.

Fact..some officers and friendly, kind, reasonable and respectful..some are not...

Fact..Some people on Wacco are friendly, kind, reasonable and respectful...and some are not.

Some people will always be rude and unkind to police...no matter the circumstances. Some people will drink plenty, get in their car and drive down the road. Some people continue to argue and fuss even when they have clearly broken a law.
Many are rude just for the sake of it.
Its really sad to me that the police are subjected to this kind of heartless treatment. I can only imagine how they feel, knowing that the haters are at large, and that any encounter could be an energetic and emotional bummer for them.

I was personally happy the police were attentive to the new and wildly successful Hopmonk Nightclub scene, where lots and lots of people are most definitely drinking...and leaving in their cars !

I have personally made a point to be respectful and kind to law enforcement and in more than one occasion I have been given a warning, or lesser charge, primarily, I believe, due to the demeanor of kindness and respect.

I truly believe in the universal law of attraction. We really do get back what we put out. We reap what we sow.

If you want something or someone to be gracious, kind and respectful...be that yourself...Its a worthy experiment.

I agree with the part about challenging the authority of the police in this instance. I was tempted to do the chivalrous thing and rise to this woman's defense but didn't want to spend Christmas in jail, or worse.

I also agree that it is safer to use one's good judgment and cross the street safely wherever and whenever.

I believe many people are getting run over because these foolish laws about j-walking create a false sense of security. I've written about this here before. J-walking laws will not prevent people from being hit by cars. Teaching them common sense about looking before they step in to the street will. I once posted on this site studies that showed fewer per capita such accidents in those places where custom is contrary to j-walking laws. An argument can be made that these laws actually exacerbate the problem. The nanny state at its worst.

Teach your kids to cross a street safely and maybe the next generation in Sebastopol will see less injury and death from these sort of accidents.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

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I can not believe a person in the quiet Mayberry-like town of Sebastopol,
would react to a policeman who ask them to not jaywalk, with a "non compliant" reply.
My first reaction to this story was, "This person who questioned this officer must be related to a judge".

If this person did this to an officer in Texas, or Compton, they might have been tasered and jailed for assaulting a police officer.
Police are permitted to kill you if they feel it's necessary.
They are not to be questioned, or treated like they are your friend.
Police, since 911, have been given even more authority over us.
Anyone who "harasses" them is a threat to our national security.

Most wonderful Sebastopol citizens, you are blessed with a bubble of sanity in a world gone mad.
Do what your police say. Particularly in incident of little merit. This is where they can feel like they are one of us.
Do this for them, make them feel like they are ok in their judgment, and they will love your for it.
Do this and d your town will be spared the ugly reality of a Nation that is Corrupt and Evil from the top down.
Citizens and Police, working together. Give a little here, give a little there. That's Sebastopol.

Right or wrong, The Jay walker should have helped the cop do his job by going along with what he said.
Jaywalker needs to spend a little time in Compton. or Afghanistan. To recognize "a break" when they[re getting one.

This note was written intentionally outrageous. To make a point.

:rant:

I just HAVE to add my two cents here: I'm disabled, not in a wheelchair but most days I just can't walk very fast... Over the last two weeks, I've come close to being hit, almost every time by a pickup, but once by a woman in a station wagon. I was in the cross-walk, halfway across, having the light green, having checked both ways that no one was coming. In every event, the person was driving too fast, coming at me in the middle of a left-hand turn, and apparently looking for cars coming from the right - ie., running the red light -- rather than looking for a pedestrian in the cross-walk they are about to enter!! I wear light clothing, I carry and red&white striped umbrella which I literally WAVE as I'm crossing, and still I have to jump out of these idiots' way ... LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING! It's really no contest between your truck and my li'l body!!
Thank you very much.
Rant complete.

the police are us, not the other. i think we think of it this way to push away the work they do, so far away that it needs licence to kill. it doesn't have to be this way. there are lots of different models of justice.

when i rode with the sebastopol pd i heard the mayberry metaphor. there is opportunity here. energy looking for purpose. i asked chief weaver to do something different. be in a circle where he is another human being, rather than the chief in charge, for mutual understanding and collaboration. the offer still stands. now i am making it publicly. thanks waccoites! ross

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by KellytheSinger:

I can not believe a person in the quiet Mayberry-like town of Sebastopol,
would react to a policeman who ask them to not jaywalk, with a "non compliant" reply.
My first reaction to this story was, "This person who questioned this officer must be related to a judge".

If this person did this to an officer in Texas, or Compton, they might have been tasered and jailed for assaulting a police officer.
Police are permitted to kill you if they feel it's necessary.
They are not to be questioned, or treated like they are your friend.
Police, since 911, have been given even more authority over us.
Anyone who "harasses" them is a threat to our national security.

Most wonderful Sebastopol citizens, you are blessed with a bubble of sanity in a world gone mad.
Do what your police say. Particularly in incident of little merit. This is where they can feel like they are one of us.
Do this for them, make them feel like they are ok in their judgment, and they will love your for it.
Do this and d your town will be spared the ugly reality of a Nation that is Corrupt and Evil from the top down.
Citizens and Police, working together. Give a little here, give a little there. That's Sebastopol.

Right or wrong, The Jay walker should have helped the cop do his job by going along with what he said.
Jaywalker needs to spend a little time in Compton. or Afghanistan. To recognize "a break" when they[re getting one.

This note was written intentionally outrageous. To make a point.

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OK. Well, we've heard lots of points of view and more than a few rants and off topic (but related) issues in response to this post. The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.

Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

We now know why there were 4 officers and a car present and why the ticket was issued.
The j-walker could have apologized, accepted the warning and went on about her business, but she chose a different path.
Sometimes you get what you give. :yinyang:

It is important for anyone living in, or going through town to know what to expect from the local police.
Respect and a good attitude are always a good start. The golden rule comes to mind.

I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority.. and the rest of us too.

Happy New Year Everyone
Make it a good one :waccosun:
Tom

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.
Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

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true enough.

Quote:

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I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority..

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I wouldn't draw that conclusion at all! There's plenty of respect for authority in our society already, most of it misplaced. Maybe it can be redistributed a bit. It doesn't sound like she was all that out of line, no-one was hurt, everything unfolded the way you might expect it to. Sometime you just wanna create a scene.

i think resisting arrest, unless you are participating in a political protest & have been through trainings, is beyond foolish. i am always polite to "authority figures", usually friendly to officers, clear they have "too much power." something is wrong when we have the highest rate of incaceration of any industrialized country.
i have read the stories.
i still don't understand why there were 4 officers there. nor do i understand why there were over 40 law enforcement vehicles on our rode, for a suicide, potentially they feared an attempted homicide, along with the 2 helicopters. i worked w. the police for 3 years going out on domestic violence calls.never did they need that much "back up". i have a good understanding of the danger of those calls.
jefferson could not have imagined what our society has evolved to, but the "price of liberty is" still "eternal vigilance."
to have a quality society we need to pay attention to the good, & the bad, in many areas, this one is more obvious, & more dangerous than most. (though in my line of work, i have seen things that have turned my stomach, & except with close friends/students, i too am bound by a code. i can't eliminate the bad riding instructors/trainers, but i can promote/support the good ones.)
i am committed to working for justice on all fronts. also know that know act of kindness, however small is ever wasted. these work together well, when possible.:Yinyangv:

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

OK. Well, we've heard lots of points of view and more than a few rants and off topic (but related) issues in response to this post. The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.

Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

We now know why there were 4 officers and a car present and why the ticket was issued.
The j-walker could have apologized, accepted the warning and went on about her business, but she chose a different path.
Sometimes you get what you give. :yinyang:

It is important for anyone living in, or going through town to know what to expect from the local police.
Respect and a good attitude are always a good start. The golden rule comes to mind.

I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority.. and the rest of us too.

Happy New Year Everyone
Make it a good one :waccosun:
Tom

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i think talking back to an officer when being warned about a victimless infraction you think is unjust is perfectly appropriate. while you might get a citation, who knows? you might spark a community conversation about police practices!

the reason there were four police representatives there is because the sebastopol police have almost nothing to do. if they didn't work so hard "looking for trouble," they would be totally bored. when chief weaver refers to a "newly hired reserve officer" he is probably referring to someone who has gone through police training, is licensed to carry weapons, and is working for free to gain experience and contacts. the department probably pays a bit extra insurance or something. there are almost as many reserve officers as paid officers on the sebastopol pd. who knows, maybe more now, turns out law enforcement is like other careers in the us, more supply than demand.

why do so many police job yearners want to roll with the sebastopol pd? probably because its safe, easy, they are welcomed, and moral is high. chief weaver comes across as a protective mother hen, totally devoted to his department, accessible, the perfect volunteer coordinator. he clucked at me so loud when i went to talk with him about the city considering another law enforcement strategy it was hard to get a word in edgewise, and it went way over the requested time window! don't get me wrong, i like the guy, i consider him honest, lots of integrity. i am asking him to be a little more ambitious, to consider the possibility that the sebastopol pd could be a cutting edge training ground for law enforcement which includes policies fostering compassion and restorative justice.

i know this is possible because of volunteering at the sonoma county jail for three years and the exciting developments there.
how about it chief weaver?

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

i think resisting arrest, unless you are participating in a political protest & have been through trainings, is beyond foolish. i am always polite to "authority figures", usually friendly to officers, clear they have "too much power." something is wrong when we have the highest rate of incaceration of any industrialized country.
i have read the stories.
i still don't understand why there were 4 officers there. nor do i understand why there were over 40 law enforcement vehicles on our rode, for a suicide, potentially they feared an attempted homicide, along with the 2 helicopters. i worked w. the police for 3 years going out on domestic violence calls.never did they need that much "back up". i have a good understanding of the danger of those calls.
jefferson could not have imagined what our society has evolved to, but the "price of liberty is" still "eternal vigilance."
to have a quality society we need to pay attention to the good, & the bad, in many areas, this one is more obvious, & more dangerous than most. (though in my line of work, i have seen things that have turned my stomach, & except with close friends/students, i too am bound by a code. i can't eliminate the bad riding instructors/trainers, but i can promote/support the good ones.)
i am committed to working for justice on all fronts. also know that know act of kindness, however small is ever wasted. these work together well, when possible.:Yinyangv:

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