What in the World are they spraying?

https://vimeo.com/16219493

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Posted in reply to the post by OrchardDweller:

https://vimeo.com/16219493

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This is HUGE. All else pales by comparison.
I think every person should take an hour and watch this documentary. The defining moment for me was about halfway through.
I have noticed what they are talking about and often wish I still had my father, an Air Force pilot, to question about this.
He used to talk to me about the nature of contrails.

They're not "spraying", anymore than you are "spraying" exhaust from your car. Yes, jet engine exhaust is changing the weather and degrading the environment, in exactly the same ways as car engine exhaust; but that doesn't prove you're intentionally adding chemicals to your gasoline to accelerate the process.

Contrails are not evidence of "chemtrails". Any combustion engine will produce contrails under the right conditions, and do so, all the time.

It is so sad to me that no matter how often this cumbersome paranoid fantasy is soundly refuted, people will just not let it go. There are real conspiracies in the world, like the US invading Iraq under false pretenses, or the looting of our treasury by Wall Street with our government's help. These have enormous consequences. Please put your energy where it might do some good.

That being said, persistent CONtrails pose a real environmental problem. One of our astronauts (forget which but a famous dude,) has a website that focuses on this issue and features some startling photos of the earth from space just covered with persistent contrails. They have affected our weather and are a part of the equation of our changing climate. It is not a conspiracy, just due to increased air traffic over the decades.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

They're not "spraying", anymore than you are "spraying" exhaust from your car. Yes, jet engine exhaust is changing the weather and degrading the environment, in exactly the same ways as car engine exhaust; but that doesn't prove you're intentionally adding chemicals to your gasoline to accelerate the process.
...
Please put your energy where it might do some good.

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

That being said, persistent CONtrails pose a real environmental problem. One of our astronauts (forget which but a famous dude,) has a website that focuses on this issue and features some startling photos of the earth from space just covered with persistent contrails. They have affected our weather and are a part of the equation of our changing climate. It is not a conspiracy, just due to increased air traffic over the decades.

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Well, sort of. To be precise, when we see contrails, what we are seeing is water vapor that has condensed out of the frozen air due to heating, then refrozen again as tiny ice crystals that form around the tiny soot particles from the exhaust. That's why they persist for so long and become so diffused before they dissipate.

It's the hydrocarbons in the exhaust that's doing the polluting, whether the jet is on the ground or at altitude. Jet fuel does have some nasty added chemicals, but they're used to make it more explosively flammable, not to attempt to change the weather. It's essentially the same nasty gases emitted in your car exhaust, leaf blower and all other forms of burning gas and oil. That's what's causing manmade global warming.

On the other hand, there is a small but measurable effect of contrails, they actually cool the earth;
https://www.csmonitor.com/Environmen...n-temperatures
and that is due to the ice crystals reflecting sunlight before it reaches the ground, but again that has nothing whatsoever to do with any sort of conspiracy to lace jet exhaust with flu virus (a common claim among chemtrail conspiracy theorists) or malevolent chemicals meant to intentionally change the weather, pacify the population, genetically modify mold to make it more toxic or the even more bizarre claims that googling 'chemtrials' can provide.

[QUOTE=Clancy;124292]Well, sort of. To be precise, when we see contrails, what we are seeing is water vapor that has condensed out of the frozen air due to heating, then refrozen again as tiny ice crystals that form around the tiny soot particles from the exhaust. That's why they persist for so long and become so diffused before they dissipate.

It's the hydrocarbons in the exhaust that's doing the polluting, whether the jet is on the ground or at altitude. jet fuel does have some nasty added chemicals, but they're used to make it more explosively flammable, not to change the weather. It's essentially the same nasty gases emitted in your car exhaust, leaf blower and all other forms of burning gas and oil. That's what's causing manmade global warming.


In this documentary, the scientists responsible for the geoengineering say that it is happening, that they are doing it with highly reflective aluminum particles, although they actually have no clue as to the long term effects. Also the doc. points to the recent findings of hugely elevated amounts of aluminum in even the relatively isolated areas of, say, California. Aluminum, barium and strontium. 60,000 times the level considered alarming by our gov't standards. This verified by climate-wise scientists with credentials up the wazoo.

Am I wrong? Please tell me that's all bullshit, along with the contention (they showed the official paperwork from the US patent office-- it looked good from here) of patents on GMO seeds that sprout plants that are engineered to survive/ thrive in high soil concentrations of aluminum. Now I know the good people of Monsanto and the like simply have our best interests at heart. No conspiracies there! They've been so good us. Just look at the nation's cornbelt.

Today I went out and saw the usual array of contrails, wide because of the humidity in the air, right? Did I think that they were all chemtrails? Of course not. Do I want to believe they could do this to us? Hell no! But the scientists on the geoengineering panel admitted that they are already doing it.

One thing I do know is that we are vulnerable as a planet in our efforts to maintain an adequate food supply as our environment degrades. Having to rely on GMO seeds is a frankenfooder's wet dream.

Aluminum in toxic levels in the so-called interest of preventing global warming. Why would I be skeptical of such a plan?

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Posted in reply to the post by claire ossenbeck:

In this documentary, the scientists responsible for the geoengineering say that it is happening, that they are doing it with highly reflective aluminum particles, although they actually have no clue as to the long term effects. Also the doc. points to the recent findings of hugely elevated amounts of aluminum in even the relatively isolated areas of, say, California. Aluminum, barium and strontium. 60,000 times the level considered alarming by our gov't standards. This verified by climate-wise scientists with credentials up the wazoo. [/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]

Am I wrong?

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No, you're not wrong in the sense that we're fouling our air, water and soil with myriad heavy metals and very nasty chemicals; we're doing it in many ways, not just via jet exhaust. We're also creating the largest die-off of species since the dinosaurs expired 65 million years ago, but the 'conspiracy' is shared by all of us, it's for profit and comfort and ease, with hardly a thought of the consequences.

Did you even watch the movie? Did you even know that other countries are experiencing, publicizing and measuring this fallout as well? Well, just because companies or the sectors of the government say something isn't so, doesn't make it that way. Since you believe there are conspiracies, I'm assuming you must know this. What you mentioned is all part of many vast issues that others try to cover-up.

Your judgment ("a paranoid fantasy") of the reality of chemtrails, which affects the air we breath and the food we eat through intentional release of polymers, barium, aluminum and mycoplasma infections, not contrails that dissipate, doesn't make it any less an issue than using deleted uranium in Iraq for a war that shouldn't be. "Do no harm" in any form whether it be Wall Street or "Skygate."

What I actually find sad is that people have such a way to use diminishing and belittling dialogue when there is a difference of opinions or information that is presented, rather than put forth information to educate, inviting others to come to their own decisions or have their own experiences...not telling them what to do ("Please put your energy where it might do some good" as if where you choose to put your energy is the best route for everyone), and then using disparaging remarks to get them to see they must be wrong if they think or act differently. Battles are not stopped by attempting to insult others. I continue to pray we can do this differently.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

They're not "spraying", anymore than you are "spraying" exhaust from your car. Yes, jet engine exhaust is changing the weather and degrading the environment, in exactly the same ways as car engine exhaust; but that doesn't prove you're intentionally adding chemicals to your gasoline to accelerate the process.

Contrails are not evidence of "chemtrails". Any combustion engine will produce contrails under the right conditions, and do so, all the time.

It is so sad to me that no matter how often this cumbersome paranoid fantasy is soundly refuted, people will just not let it go. There are real conspiracies in the world, like the US invading Iraq under false pretenses, or the looting of our treasury by Wall Street with our government's help. These have enormous consequences. Please put your energy where it might do some good.

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Yeah, well it's good to post the chemtrail topic online to get more people to realize that the trails that we see are not just exhaust. Any person who wants to stop and think would understand that the typical exhaust ALWAYS evaporates in like eight seconds to where it is invisible. If you look at most chemtrails they not only expand, they don't disappear for a long time and when they do, it can make the sky white and the sun blinding. I don't see much chemtrail activity here in Texas (have only been here since late March), but I have seen scary chemtrail missions in central Kansas and some in northeast Arkansas and mid Tennessee. I have photographed some and have twice seen the long strands of metal floating down or going by in the breeze! It has to be metal that they are spraying as it blinds the sky when dissipated and then the rare "tinsel" that is rarely seen. Folks, open your mind. You claim to be so enlightened, but you really shut out the truth in politics and matters of the govt. doing harm.

Talk about a researched and documented topic! Scroll through this website and see the vast amount of information on this:

https://www.heartcom.org/ChemtrailOverview.htm

And to think I hadn't even heard about this until last night.
However, for the past many years while I was living above Alexander Valley, I noticed a new phenomenon that no one could ever explain. There was a configuration of very thick and persistent contrails fanning out from the exact due-North, very wide nearest the horizon. I would see these all the time and they lasted for many hours. Any thoughts?

If I could I'd like to see some show of hands: Are y'all feeling healthy these days? How about your friends and family?

Tomorrow I step up my Milk Thistle intake (silymarin).

So sad, you say, Clancy? I'll agree with you there.

Just as many contrails "fan out" from the south of Sonoma County, because LAX, SFO, Portland and Seattle are roughly in a north/south line.

I give up. Sorry if I've distressed anyone. Chemtrails are caused by shapeshifting reptilian aliens from Alpha Centauri who have taken over the world's governments and are altering our atmosphere more to their liking. Never fear though. Someone on Whacko is selling $300 Magic Healing Wands, so any detrimental physical effects due to chemtrails can be easily healed. Carry on.

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Posted in reply to the post by claire ossenbeck:

...for the past many years while I was living above Alexander Valley, I noticed a new phenomenon that no one could ever explain. There was a configuration of very thick and persistent contrails fanning out from the exact due-North, very wide nearest the horizon. I would see these all the time and they lasted for many hours. Any thoughts?

If I could I'd like to see some show of hands: Are y'all feeling healthy these days? How about your friends and family?

Tomorrow I step up my Milk Thistle intake (silymarin).

So sad, you say, Clancy? I'll agree with you there.

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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)


Yeah, people can even see the chemtrails in the form on an 'X' in the sky and keep it to themselves it seems. What a toll that must take with guilt inside. Kind of like how people get cancer from living with sour and corrupt people. The chemtrails are in your face in certain areas, and I know a few people look up and wonder. A lot of people don't look up. People are dumb, like Hitler said.

Knowledge + common sense = wisdom

No, 'X''s in the sky are not random at all. White lines expanding like that, "Oh, look at that white, puffy 'X'! What are the chances? Oh, look another one." And then you see it on more days! Better start to think.

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)


Yeah, people can even see the chemtrails in the form on an 'X' in the sky and keep it to themselves it seems. What a toll that must take with guilt inside. Kind of like how people get cancer from living with sour and corrupt people. The chemtrails are in your face in certain areas, and I know a few people look up and wonder. A lot of people don't look up. People are dumb, like Hitler said.

Knowledge + common sense = wisdom

No, 'X''s in the sky are not random at all. White lines expanding like that, "Oh, look at that white, puffy 'X'! What are the chances? Oh, look another one." And then you see it on more days! Better start to think.

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I have seen them spraying in Sonoma County. These are not normal contrails. When I ask my friends what they think, they give me strange looks. SOMETHING is happening. Thank you for noticing.

I have until now been convinced the idea of "chemtrails" was a paranoid tinfoil-hatty kind of
fantasy. But there were some seriously compelling points in that fascinating documentary, not the least of which is the public governmental discussion of potential overhead spraying, "in the future" of precisely those substances being found currently in the soil and water. I find that disturbing, and food for some serious thought.

However there remains a sticky point for me: If there is current deployment of these chemicals via aircraft, how or why do the people involved pretend or intend to remain invulnerable to the effects? Is it pure delusion, do they simply not "believe" it will personally cause them any harm?

Otherwise, I cannot go to population control, or even total food supply control (although that's not a huge stretch, and the GMO patent is worrisome) because there remains the problem of those "in charge" of the "plan" avoiding exposure/contamination.

I can easily get out my tin foil hat (well, small beanie, anyway) but it is difficult for me to go all the way to nefarious organized plot to control or poison the people.

The documentary did, however, convince me there is something afoot, and something that should be looked at long and hard. There is a long history of weather control and cloud seeding, and also a long history of ignoring the spewing of toxic crap in favour of corporate interests. In fact there is so much deliberate illegal dumping, spewing, messing with nature and food supply, so much intentional blindness to the horrors of factory food, conventional energy, the list goes on....this is just one more example of how humans as a collective have lost sight of their place in this living being we call earth, and our connection to it.

I have gone back and forth on this issue for many years now. it didn't help that my brother asked an old high school buddy who happens to be high ranking military official involved in some ecret operations in Michigan about this. Te guy was rather cryptic about chemtrails but did not dismiss the idea out of hand. Instead he invited my brother out to visit him near the facility where he works close to Lansing to "show him something". My brother never took him up on it...

Personally I think its bad enough that these persistent contrails hang around as long as they do, mucking up the sky on what would otherwise be a clear day. They have been shown to carry traces of all sorts of chemicals and metals and that can't be good for humans or the environment. If there is some sort of government sponsored program they have managed to keep it quiet pretty effectively. There is so much stuff on the net about this, even "pictures" of those "white jets" spraying the shit in giant plumes across the sky. Eb=ven secret photos of the insides of these jets. Is it all bogus? I won't say for sure but at times the conspiracy nut in me has wondered at the amount of murk in our Sonoma county skies...

By the way, that documentary is the best overview I have seen on what is known on this subject .
Fascinating piece.

One of the sad things about this thread is that there seems to no recognition that we are the ones providing the demand for quick, reliable transportation, and the corporations that fulfill it care no more about the resulting pollution than most of us when we fly or drive, spewing noxious chemical exhaust in our wake.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

One of the sad things about this thread is that there seems to no recognition that we are the ones providing the demand for quick, reliable transportation, and the corporations that fulfill it care no more about the resulting pollution than most of us when we fly home for christmas, a contrail of noxious exhaust in our wake.

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Clancy,

I believe I alluded to that in my post when I said
"this is just one more example of how humans as a collective have lost sight of their place in this living being we call earth, and our connection to it. "

Also, your lamentation of a lack of awareness on this thread may be misplaced, since the thread itself was started as a dialogue about whether or not there actually *are* weird chemical "extras" in the jet exhaust. I believe most of the people on this board are pretty environmentally conscious, and do their best with their own footprint.

I agree with you that aeronautic jet fuel exhaust alone does present its own set of problems, though less urgent in the greater scheme of less "necessary" evils, IMHO, like factory farming or industrial chemical pollution. The insatiable hunger for fast food and more plastic crap seems like such a less justifiable reason to pollute and abuse. Air travel serves a useful purpose, and perhaps we can soon devise a way to move large amounts of people from place to place without polluting our planet.

But perhaps you are not hearing enough of what you want to hear on this thread simply because its focus is more on whether there is deployment of aluminum and barium from these planes, and less on the merits (or not) of plane travel itself. In fact if I understood correctly it is military planes that are suspected of the nefarious behaviour? Someone correct me if I got that wrong.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

One of the sad things about this thread is that there seems to no recognition that we are the ones providing the demand for quick, reliable transportation, and the corporations that fulfill it care no more about the resulting pollution than most of us when we fly or drive, spewing noxious chemical exhaust in our wake.

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Dude, You could apply that to cars, a culture that is still almost entirely dependent on oil etc. I think most of the people up here on Wacco are painfully aware of these issues.

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

Dude, You could apply that to cars, a culture that is still almost entirely dependent on oil etc. I think most of the people up here on Wacco are painfully aware of these issues.

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Dude, I did. Try reading my post again.

Flying or driving, we're polluting the hell out of the planet with the same noxious chemicals, heavy metals and hydrocarbons. You don't need a conspiracy, we're all doing it willingly.

Hi,

I appreciate the views expressed on this thread and am glad that some people who befoe thought chem trails were just nonsense are now concerned. The posts have been of a reasonably good nature with just a little tension thrown in.

Does anyone know of Cathy Palmer, because she is the gal apparently who lived in your area and reported on chemtrails on her blog and YouTube channel. I was just scanning my chemtrails bookmarks and went to her blog. She states on her site, https://sonomachemtrails.blogspot.com/ , that she is now residing in Florida and still reports on this issue. You must visit her site! Now I got that link from the page in my bookmarks, https://sonomachemtrails.blogspot.com/search?q=ksla .

The Jeff Ferrell article on that page posted Dec. 1, 2007, highlights a bit on the fact that it wasn't known then who is directly responsible for the chem trail activity but that the military was pointed to since they admitted getting the Welsbach Patent to dispuse metals in the sky this way and then the Colin Powell quote, "we are committed to a billion-dollar program to develop and deploy advanced technologies to mitigate greenhouse-gas emissions."

I believe it is a black op program for sure, and is likey done with the guise to study the effects on the population (do people and animals get sick, do they notice us doing this, etc.) while serving some monetary/population control interest. It could be like with fluoridation of water, where the metals industry apparenty got municipalities all around to add the chemicals to the water as a profitable way to dispose of their waste metals (is one theory I have heard). I'm quite certain big corporate interests are behind this, as that is the mainstay of our military-industrial society very sadly.

https://www.ksla.com/Global/story.as...39345&nav=0RY5 "There's already no shortage of unclassified weather modification programs by the government. But those who fear chemtrails could be secret biological and chemical testing on the public point to the 1977 U.S. Senate hearings which confirmed 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Later, the 1994 Rockefeller Report concluded hundreds of thousands of military personnel were also subjected to secret biological experiments over the last 60-years."

https://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtra...aying_god.html a man's 2007? account of regular chemtrail activity on the West Coast and the supposed govt. reason of climate modification.

https://www.carnicom.com/mgr1.htm Airline manager's anonymous letter to Clifford Carnicom that regular airlines are equipped in a secret govt. program to dispurse chemicals into the sky for the public's best interest. Force-fed breathing of chemicals for our best interest! But that is what I have understood Operation Cloverleaf to be, a directive by the military making airlines who fly the public to dispurse the metalic compound. Wikipedia.org apparently does not have an article on the Operation.

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

...I believe it is a black op program for sure, and is likey done with the guise to study the effects on the population (do people and animals get sick, do they notice us doing this, etc.) while serving some monetary/population control interest. It could be like with fluoridation of water, where the metals industry apparenty got municipalities all around to add the chemicals to the water as a profitable way to dispose of their waste metals (is one theory I have heard). I'm quite certain big corporate interests are behind this, as that is the mainstay of our military-industrial society very sadly....

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But...but... wait, what about the reptilian aliens? Lots of people just like you believe they're in charge of the government and are doing the chemtrails "for sure" and they have lots of internet links too! Look!
https://www.google.com/search?client...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8


OMG. You must be a reptilian disinformation agent, trying to cover up the truth.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

Dude, I did. Try reading my post again.

Flying or driving, we're polluting the hell out of the planet with the same noxious chemicals, heavy metals and hydrocarbons. You don't need a conspiracy, we're all doing it willingly.

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"Dude", No one's is saying we're not aware of these issues. That was the point of my post, which was a response to your post which expressed sadness over the lack of awareness of these issues being expressed on this thread. I'm certainly not supporting a conspiracy theory regarding americans feeling of entitlement regarding our reckless use of the planet's resources

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Posted in reply to the post by broadbandersnatch:

"Dude", No one's is saying we're not aware of these issues...

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Uh, Dude, no one but me is even talking about it. That was my point. It's silly to be wringing our hands over a possible conspiracy to inject hydrocarbons and heavy metals into the air when almost all of us are doing it, every day, willingly.

I would like to suggest that as a general group most people are doing it knowingly, but not willingly.

If better cleaner options had been researched, subsidized and implemented by government and corporate/private sector entities alike, we would not be doing it, knowingly or willingly. We need transport, it is wonderful and useful, and until better options are implemented with environmental and human well-being in mind, that is what we are stuck with.

Diminishing peoples' concerns that something suspect might be going on, (much like the supression of alternative vehicles by gov't/corporate collusion several years back, a known fact) by pulling the alien mind-control-tinfoil-hat-cult card on them, seems unfair, and verging on rude.

You keep saying you're the "only one" on this thread concerned about the issue of fossil fuel pollution etc, but are ignoring all the posts here that agree with you and express an equal amount of concern. Sounds like you're the paranoid one now ;)

I see you posted a response to me that was nothing more than what a middle school bully would do.

I looked at the part in our posts that mention how much gratitude one has given, and you have given zero gratitude in your four years on here and 600+ posts. In looking at the threads you have started, without going to see how many bully tirades you have gone on to other members, I see quite a few stories against big oil, many on Democrats (and Obama being a disappointment), and then the one about the time traveling bird (I scanned the story and the sentence about the time traveling bird seemed very out of place).

And as you lay into people on here about conspiracies, why, you have several that you seem to believe in as evidenced by some of the titles of newstories you copied and posted in full on here (shaky grounds for violating the terms here as well as copyright law). One of your multiple stories on the H1N1 virus being trumped to the public declared the author, "Am I a conspiracy theorist if I suggest that since the network's nightly news broadcasts are sponsored almost entirely by prescription drug ads, that you might have to hold your breath a long time before you hear the alternative point of view to using pharmaceuticals to cure all our ailments? . . . I don't think its "anti-science" to pause and consider that point of view."

Then there are more stories such as, "Mediums - Worthwhile or Hoax? , H1N1 Flu Is a False Pandemic, Health Expert Claims, America has been hijacked, The extent of Obama's betrayal can not be overstated, The sheer EVIL of the oil industry's disinformation campaign on global warming, Study: Wireless phones can affect the brain."

Did anyone taunt you in your rage to post stories that went against the mainstream? Why are you a grown man bully, and it seems a hypocrite and against freedom to discuss issues in the proper section of this bulletin board?

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

I see you posted a response to me that was nothing more than what a middle school bully would do... Why are you a grown man bully, and it seems a hypocrite and against freedom to discuss issues in the proper section of this bulletin board?

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Where'd you go? Does this mean you don't believe aliens are doing the chemtrails? Many, many people believe 'reptilians' are responsible, how about you? Frankly, I'm skeptical, and I wonder how you determine which conspiracy theory to believe.

LightBrownLeghorns,

I find your retort to Clancy to be hyperbolic, bordering on the hysterical. (No, it's not a sexist word, even if the origin can be painted with that brush, it means "emotionally out of control." In some contexts it means funny, but that's not the sense in which I'm using it here.)

Clancy is fully capable of defending himself, and I'm sure he will. But your response to being teased about Reptilian Overlords (All Hail Our Serpentine Masters!!! ...Just wanna be safe, rather than sorry....) is, how can I say it without adding fuel to your fire? Inflated. Over the top.

Now, nobody has violated any restrictions on expression here, neither you or Clancy, you've both stayed within the guidelines of "respectful, conscious" communication. Well, maybe pushed the boundaries a little, but nobody's broken through the border into direct insult and abuse.

But, digging up his posting history? Threatening him with copyright law? (Which would rebound on Barry, not Clancy.) Labeling him a Bully?

Really? Is that how you refute a refudiator?

You are aware that the "gratitude" history is incomplete, as reported by Barry a few days ago. So your investigation into Clancy's history of giving and receiving thanks, only represents his participation for the last several weeks. And he's been inactive on wacco for months, until his recent reappearance. If you're going to cite facts about a community, you should know the lay of the land.

Clancy is brusque and direct. I appreciate his candor. Granted, generally we're on the same side of these debates. But even if we weren't, I'm fairly sure his derision, if it was aimed at me, would be something I could handle, and could return in kind if I so chose.

Reading the riot act and crying home to momma? (In this case I suppose momma is the court of waccoon public opinion.) Seems kind of extreme given the circumstances.

Who kicked your hen?

By the way, the subject of Chemtrails, pro and con, is not a new topic on this board. It's already been addressed by most, if not all, sides. At least twice, extensively, that I recall in the last five years or so. I haven't seen anything new or convincing to support the purported threat posed by them, in this thread.

Doesn't mean you believers don't fully have the right to bring them up again. Of course you do. But you don't have the right to demand that those who find the "evidence" for them unconvincing shut up and leave you alone. The fact that they're a persistent concern among some circles of our, uh, fringe culture is not sufficient proof that they are anything other than a self-perpetuating urban myth, that is being spread by a small, incestuous group of opportunistic pseudo-scientists, for purposes of fun and profit. And the charlatans I'm referring to are not you believers, they're the ones who I am fairly confident have you hoodwinked.

And before you think you're being dismissed and/or insulted by my use of "fringe", just let me say I love the TV show, and I'm an agnostic on this and many other issues. Spin spider webs from the upper atmosphere all you want. When I think there's convincing empirical evidence that the military industrial complex is poisoning the same ecosystem that their families depend on for their lives, oxygen, food and shelter, I may hop on board. So far, no cigar.

Or it's the minions of the green, slant pupiled, yellow eyed, scaly cool smooth ones trying to deflect us from the truth! All hail the beautiful ones!

Good resources. Thank you! Would also like to add about "Operation Popeye."
https://www.sunshine-project.org/enmod/US_Congr.html where weather modification was used during the Vietnam War. So it's not like it hasn't been implemented before to continue the process to now.


Award-winnning journalist, William Thomas, has also discussed how technology & planning was developed as far back as the 1960s to combat global warming by scattering small particulates in the atmosphere. He detailed how a whistleblower known as "Deep Sky," an air traffic controller, revealed in 2001 that controllers were ordered to divert commercial flights away from Air Force craft that were involved in weather/climate modification. He continued that in the winter of 2005, the United States government established a federal bureau of weather modification in Washington, DC. whose stated mission is to modify the weather and climate. Under this rubric, he claims that the government could come out and admit to a chemtrail-type project eventually. https://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/thomas-william/5796

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

Hi,

I appreciate the views expressed on this thread and am glad that some people who........

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Geez, Miles. Take a chill pill.
You sound a little over-the-top emotional to me. Bordering on Hysterical!
How does that feel to be on the receiving end? Would you like me to go on and on for a full page?
Again, if someone wants to follow the studies of accredited scientists and be completely alarmed, how is that your problem?
And the crack about running home to Momma... well, "seems kind of extreme, given the circumstances". yada yada yada.
if you aren't interested in this supposed pseudo science topic, you could always just butt out.
i didn't see that you offered anything of value yourself except the gratitude history.

Coming at me next? aw c'mon, gimme your best shot! :]

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

LightBrownLeghorns,

I find your retort to Clancy to be hyperbolic, bordering on the hysterical.
...
Or it's the minions of the green, slant pupiled, yellow eyed, scaly cool smooth ones trying to deflect us from the truth! All hail the beautiful ones!

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Who is Clancy - some political official - because normally people like Mad Miles only go on the defensive to such an extent when one of their own good ole boys gets criticized! I know this from experience. When I was a City Councilman in a corrupt town and publicized accusations of the higher ups stealing city water and not paying improvement fees and such things, all heck broke loose. At least I know what I'm dealing with now.

Our gay newspaper in Dallas had a good column just recently about the psychology of bullies since that is a current issue with gay kids who have committed suicide as they lived in the terrible emotional abuse of daily public humiliation from just such people in my regard.

In looking at my chemtrails bookmarks again, I came across a fascinating story from 2006 I think it is. Ken Welch's ideas are in line with what I stated earlier about the public being sprayed as a way to harm their health. This is SCARY. Below I have copied and pasted some of the highlights from his essay. And where you read in the actual web article the paragraph about aliens, he is clearly quoting a theory. At the end, an eyebrow raising moment came when he addressed that question that one or two people had on here about why would the govt. leaders in charge do this when their own family members would be affected. He mentions a vaccine that would have been given. I don't believe much in vaccines, but looking at the believability of people, they would say, "Sure, I'll order all the missions, this vaccine will protect me." People trust those above them so much! Hope you enjoy the article. And my sympathies to you who know this is a health danger - we are all in this together. The best we can do is avoid being outside in the spraying times like the article says and take care of our health and I believe in telling others. I will have the rest of the highlights in the next post as I went over the word limit for a single posting.

https://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

"First, around 1989 the U.S. government announced a quest to make fires on crashed aircraft less explosive. Spots were run on TV showing a jetliner being crashed in the desert and a large fireball. About a year later it was announced that jet fuel would be reformulated to include a chemical that would help with the problem. This was done, although no one can recall any demonstration of effectiveness. . . .

In a number of cases people were able to obtain samples of jet fuel and have them analyzed. The culprit was clearly pinpointed as the new additive, Ethylene Dibromide.

Ethylene Dibromide is one of the most toxic chemical pesticides ever developed, and also the first to be banned for all uses that would bring it in contact with the environment or any human being. . . .

Several things were immediately apparent about the spray planes. First, they weren't high enough to be making contrails and even if they were, the sprayed liquid was flashing into voluminous white visibility much too fast to have any connection with the process by which moisture in 1000 degree (F) jet exhaust can freeze into visible ice crystals. Second, you could literally watch the crew turn the pumps on and off when they were having fun with their aerial designs and, in the case of planes with older pumping systems that pulsed as they pumped, the sprayed liquid was literally coming out in clumps (there are still some pictures of this around). Third, during the first six months or so, all the photographed planes were military refueling tankers, the aircraft that have the role of implementing Uncle Sam's chemical and biological warfare missions. . . .

Considering that the main event is now relatively imminent, I don't think there's much risk then in going on the record today to predict that chemtrails will end soon." The article was posted on rense.com in January 2006, so I would say his prediction was a dud.

I edited this right after I pasted the additional highlights because I think I got most of the article in my post which I didn't want. I hope just these few sentences I am writing shows up and you can read the article yourself at rense.com.

https://www.rense.com/general69/chem.htm

Claire,

Please ma'am may I have another?!

I feel just fine. My hide is considerably thicker than many others. Apparently.

It's what it takes to be an apologist for a "high official" bent on suppressing the awful truth. Goes with the territory.

Plus there's this vaccination I can't talk about in public... Oops! Let the cat out of the bag!

And now for a moment of seriousness.

Bullying is not simply derision. A sustained campaign of unrelenting derision is bullying. A response to the credulous with humor, even if it is not welcome by those it is directed at, is not bullying. Should it continue, then it is. I understand the distinction. It is clear to me.

And replying to initial and limited derision with the accusation that it is bullying, and then making comparisons to purported "officials" who are covering up the mass poisoning of the planet. Well, I won't characterize that, for fear of feeding the, "You're a bully!!!", frenzy. Suffice it to say I'm not particularly concerned, or alarmed. But it bears mentioning.

Responding to criticism and light derision (believe me, there are much stronger ways to criticize the chemtrail community, your treatment here has been quite respectful, compared to what I've read elsewhere) with hyperbolic accusations of dark conspiracy and highhanded official suppression of "The Truth"? Doesn't lend your cause any credence.

And there's a point at which quick pulling of the "Bully" card, is itself a form of coercion. And no, I'm not saying, "You did it too!!", as a defense. I'm just saying that words have meaning and if one uses them as an attack on something that isn't what you say it is, your motivations and judgment are suspect. And of course, opinions differ, and battle lines are being drawn.

When I read the available material on chemtrails back in the late nineties, the material available online, after a while it became clear that a daisy chain of interlocking websites and a small community of self-appointed experts existed as the primary sources for the, uh, claims. As I am not an atmospheric scientist, nor a chemist, physicist, engineer, aeronautical engineer, etc., etc., I was not and am not in a position to judge the claims for chemtrails. It seems from her/his recent posts, LightBrownLeghorns is a member of that original community. Great! We now have a resident expert on the matter.

In the two previous waves of chemtrail discussion on waccobb (at least two, I don't have an eidetic memory) I've refrained from commenting with my doubts, and lack of fear. (At least that's my memory, knowing me, I probably wrote something, but I don't recall it blowing up into recriminations and accusation of "bullying", denial and truth suppression. On other topics of Woo interest, yes, but not this one.)

A lot of this has to do with history and context. What veterans of wacco percieve vs. what newbies experience. I can't and won't speak for Clancy. But I know I had the instant response to the revival of chemtrail discussion in recent days as, "not this nonsense, again! Aren't there bigger problems, that we can show convincing evidence for, that merit our attention? The Neo-Con reaction to Obama's Neo-Liberal programs for instance? What waste of effort and what a diversion are chemtrails!"

Hey, just my opinion, we're all entitled to have one. I didn't respond with those thoughts, because, what's the point? True believers and conspiracy mongers gotta do what they gotta do. In opposing such lunacy one only adds fuel to their/your fire.

But when Clancy, who I respect and generally agree with, gets slimed with outraged accusations of Bully and Truth Suppressor, well, I've got my waccoons back.

So, anywhoo, carry on. Words speak for themselves.

A small bit of advice though. Telling people to shut up and butt out, because you don't like what they have to say, because of their criticisms and mild hilarity at your antics, is not a particularly good way to get them to leave you alone and ignore you. At least not at first!

Waccobb.net is a Community Bulletin Board. It's the free market of ideas. It's the Agora, the public forum. Everybody and anybody is welcome here. So long as they comport themselves within broad limits of comity. (Not to be confused with comedy, although that's also allowed!)

Only Barry gets to tell people to shut up and go away. Or the person themselves. While I've considered shutting up and going away occasionally, out of despair for the level of discussion here, or the repetition of subjects that never get resolved, or boredom, or pique, or because other venues feed my interest in communication better, I've committed a significant amount of time and effort to participating here. For good or ill.

Some people like my writing. Some people are not too enthused, as in probably despise it and me. So what? That's the risk one takes in being expressive and bold.

I welcome respectful criticism. I am completely capable of defending myself if attacked. That's all I expect from anybody else. We're all adults here, right?

Except for the God Damn Scum Sucking Fucking Socialist BULLIES!!!!

https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=priceiswrong

https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

Who is Clancy - some political official...

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Thanks, I needed a good laugh.

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

I think it is reasonable now to predict that chemtrails will end soon...

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How will you know? You see, I get the feeling you don't understand that contrails will always be created, by any combustion engine under the right circumstances. Your flight to Las Vegas, your car at Lake Tahoe in the winter, a leaf blower on the summit of Mt Everest - they will all create visible contrails that contain noxious, polluting exhaust. How long they remain visible depends on local conditions.

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Posted in reply to the post by Mad" Miles;124388][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]
Claire,
[SIZE=4][I][B]Please ma'am may I have another[U][U].....[/U][/U][/B][/I][/SIZE][URL="https://instantrimshot.com/index.php?sound=rimshot:

[/URL]
[/FONT][/SIZE]

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Well now, Miles ( as in Miles to go to get to the bottom of that letter? lol),
I can certainly tell that you do not have an eidetic (I love my thesaurus, too) memory as I did not tell you to shut up and butt out.
Actually, I am trying to be essentially respectful.

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Posted in reply to the post by claire ossenbeck:

...it does not seem a huge stretch to believe the findings of the scientists who are discovering astronomical amounts of these toxins in remote areas. I would take their word over any supposed gospel that our military/industrial complex chooses to spew. It would be naive of me not to want to know more.
This is new information for me, although I have seen that the contrails are nothing like those I used to remember when my dad and I would discuss them. The possibilities have shaken my hopes. I am not attacking any one who does not believe in this. I just want to know what in the world are they saying!!
But enough about me. I'm boring myself.

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No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

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And no one is suggesting that aliens are doing it--besides you ;)

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

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Yes you are right, there is tragic pollution and abuse of the planet. But this isn;t necessarily an either/or situation--there ARE conspiracies of sorts, that is to say corporate lobbying and payola and good ol boys clubs that keep these things going, and getting worse. You don't need an Alien World Domination Plot to explain a conspiracy, either.

Did you see the list, after the Guatemala deliberate contaminations news came out, of 40 other secret government programs that did things like spray SF from the bay with an infectious agent to see how it would spread? Like infect newborns and old people in charity hospitals? 40 documented atrocities referred to by Francis Collins of the NIH. I have a link somewhere, it includes the horribleness at Tuskegee.

What I'm getting at here is that I believe it's a both/and situation, and that a conspiracy, or planned secret nassties, doesn't necessarily equal reptile aliens and mind control.

Actually, shape shifting reptilian aliens are a favorite theory among chemtrail conspiracy theorists as a simple google search will show.

Of course there are evil conspiracies in the world, including the ones you mention. But - there's two major differences between the ones you mention and chemtrail conspiracies. The first is proof, and the second is that the ones you mention are localized conspiracies that harm a given subject population, not everyone in the world including the children of the conspirators.

Thanks for your comments, I'm going dancing and shake off this dour subject.

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Posted in reply to the post by leela8:

And no one is suggesting that aliens are doing it--besides you ;)


Yes you are right, there is tragic pollution and abuse of the planet. But this isn;t necessarily an either/or situation--there ARE conspiracies of sorts, that is to say corporate lobbying and payola and good ol boys clubs that keep these things going, and getting worse. You don't need an Alien World Domination Plot to explain a conspiracy, either.

Did you see the list, after the Guatemala deliberate contaminations news came out, of 40 other secret government programs that did things like spray SF from the bay with an infectious agent to see how it would spread? Like infect newborns and old people in charity hospitals? 40 documented atrocities referred to by Francis Collins of the NIH. I have a link somewhere, it includes the horribleness at Tuskegee.

What I'm getting at here is that I believe it's a both/and situation, and that a conspiracy, or planned secret nassties, doesn't necessarily equal reptile aliens and mind control.

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.

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You are right, Clancy. No one is disputing that. They are talking about the huge spike in certain heavy metals that these geoengineers admit they are messing with. I am thankful to OrchardDweller for bringing this documentary and topic to my attention.... this horrid, insidious possibility that is a sci-fi movie nightmare, certainly.
I believe that there have been enough links cited that I can go from here and do my own research, although I'd love to hear from local sources what they are experiencing.
As this conversation has too often segued into some alien conspiracy ideology to diminish any validity and ridicule any concerns, I do believe I am done here. Worried, concerned, coughing, but armed with enough info thanks to the serious posters to research it by myself. Thank you all.
claire

Wow! I just watched the documentary. Awesome job they did, and the activists involved in the campaign to raise awareness on the metalic spraying that occurs. Please, do join in this effort to raise awareness. Think of some credible things to say when you raise the topic. The facts are that aluminum and barium are now showing up in the precipitation, according to scientific tests. The white lines spread and do not evaporate as jet fuel would.

We have seen on this board how people can try to ridicule one who addresses this issue. We have seen the polititians in the movie walk away repeatedly. When I won my city council position, the newspaper published a story on me in the Sunday paper in which I touched on the white lines in our skies. I had only lived in the town one year and did not visit every house in my ward, but I got over 48% of the vote. It was a town of 15,000 people - a solidly middle class town in Kansas with a lot of nice homes and yards.

Some may think you are a nut, but listen, the spraying is real. When you are telling the truth, there is no reason to be anything but proud, strong, and prepared on what to say! If anyone posts on this topic again, please plan out a few things to say. It took me several days to view the movie, and I am about the biggest crusader against chemtrails that I have ever ran into. You posted the URL and hinted in the title what it was about. But like my high school oral interp. teacher would have said, give an introduction - make it entertaining enough to draw people in! There is a black op. program that sprays HIGHLY toxic metals and chemicals over our heads; that is the white lines in the sky that you would see almost daily if you looked up!!

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Posted in reply to the post by LightBrownLeghorns:

"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." - Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

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Much nonsense passes through three stages. First, it is offered as truth. Second, it is mildly ridiculed. Third, it is passionately defended.
You can't tell truth from nonsense by the way it's ridiculed. Sometimes an idea or claim really may be true. Sometimes it may be nonsense. Really, the noise surrounding it is just noise. Either it stands up to challenges or it doesn't.

Yeah, our sweet, lovable government; the same one that tested LSD on people.....



QUOTE=Clancy;124405]No one is disputing that toxic chemicals are found all over the globe, even in the most remote areas. That does not prove that anything is being intentionally added to jet exhaust by governments, militaries or aliens to pacify, poison or infect people.

We are pouring thousands of tons of toxic chemicals into our air, water and soil every day. You don't need a vast global conspiracy to explain it, we're ALL doing it, willingly or not and knowingly or not.[/QUOTE]

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

Yeah, our sweet, lovable government; the same one that tested LSD on people.....

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and left syphilis untreated in the Tuskegee experiment, and exposed soldiers to nuclear fallout, and financed brainwashing experiments at Harvard, and..
I wouldn't put it past government, academia or industry to do (relatively) small-scale experiments that are harmful. I find it a lot harder to accept conspiracies of the level of complexity implied in the chem-trail story. But sure, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they'd sprayed nasty stuff on us a few times.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

and left syphilis untreated in the Tuskegee experiment, and exposed soldiers to nuclear fallout, and financed brainwashing experiments at Harvard, and..
I wouldn't put it past government, academia or industry to do (relatively) small-scale experiments that are harmful. I find it a lot harder to accept conspiracies of the level of complexity implied in the chem-trail story. But sure, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they'd sprayed nasty stuff on us a few times.

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Ahh and what of the Gulf of Tonkin false flag attack that drew us into the Vietnam war? I guess 58,00 Us troops and 1.1 million Vietnamese troops killed is just small-scale stuff, right Mr. Fish?

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Posted in reply to the post by someguy:

Ahh and what of the Gulf of Tonkin false flag attack that drew us into the Vietnam war? I guess 58,00 Us troops and 1.1 million Vietnamese troops killed is just small-scale stuff, right Mr. Fish?

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remember the Maine? history trivia time here... Not all government malfeasance is the same. No-one here's arguing that the government is above wrongdoing. But there's a huge difference between military adventurism, and yes, small-scale operations on a group of soldiers, prisoners or patients, and the kind of grand conspiracies that are being claimed here. Manufacturing excuses for military action seems to be prerogative of every nation-state in history. It's quick and easy to do with a small group of people who work well under orders. Industrial-scale secrecy is harder to maintain.

man, now they're spraying from mystery rockets in LA!

https://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml


now THIS one meets more of the criteria for clandestine experimentation (except for the clandestine-ness, since someone inexplicably forgot that launching off the coast of a huge city isn't particularly stealthy). But so far no-one's admitted it's theirs. Atlanteans, maybe?

But so far no-one's admitted it's theirs. Atlanteans, maybe?
[/QUOTE]



Atlanteans in the Pacific! What are you, some kind of kook??

;]

Please spread the word about this topic.
Maybe if enough people know about it, a 'stay-in' can be organized to shut down the system until the spraying stops or until we get some answers. United we are powerful. That's why there's such an ongoing effort to keep us divided...

Part 1 of a informative interview with Mendocino's Rosalind Peterson of California Skywatch, from 2008.



the links to the following segments should appear in the player window