Where is the outrage? (Sonoma County only maintaining 150 miles of roads)

Last Wednesday, as reported in the Press Democrat, the County Supervisors approved a plan presented by Phil Demery, county transportation and public works director, to limit preservation of smooth paved road surfaces to "a select list of of 150 miles of county roads."

For us out here in the far west county, those roads are limited to River Road, Guerneville road, Fulton Road, and Bodega Highway. All of the other paved roads in the county are going to be allowed to just get worse and worse, until they revert to gravel. The only maintenance to be done on any of these other roads is "storm damage repair."

It might happen that if Measure W passes tomorrow, adding $10 to our license fees, there will be an extra $5 million to be divided between Sonoma County and its five cities. This will not help us much.

The supervisors were convinced that there was nothing else that they could do; Efren Carrillo at least suggested "taking money from somewhere else in the county budget," but no one carried this idea any further.

Our taxes pay the salary of this Phil Demery, I think, and I have yet to even see a complaint in the letters to the Press Democrat.

Perhaps the outrage you wish could take the form of citizens being willing to pay the taxes necessary to maintain our roads, schools, libraries and other infrastructure.

It would be fine with me, and probably cost less than my car maintenance when I have to drive the 14 miles to get to River Road over potholes, and then just gravel.

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Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:

Perhaps the outrage you wish could take the form of citizens being willing to pay the taxes necessary to maintain our roads, schools, libraries and other infrastructure.

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Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:

Perhaps the outrage you wish could take the form of citizens being willing to pay the taxes necessary to maintain our roads, schools, libraries and other infrastructure.

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Larry,

Actually the outrage is that road maintenance is one of the core things that virtually all citizens are happy to pay taxes for. This is being cut back and we are told that our rural roads will revert to gravel. That is outrageous. The county spends alot of money wasting time on roads. This year it repaved River Rd. from Guerneville to the freeway, a perfectly serviceable road that didn't need work. Last year miles of perfectly good guardrails between Guerneville and Duncans Mills were torn out and replaced with identical guardrails. What a dumb waste of money that could have been put to a far better use. But you think we should just shut up and pay more taxes so policy wonks and data reduction clerks can have something to do and politicians like you can feel good about their job? Give me a break. Spend the tax dollars where it will be most effective, on things that benefit taxpayers, things that taxpayers want, deserve, and expect. Start with decent roads.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Larry,

Actually the outrage is that road maintenance is one of the core things that virtually all citizens are happy to pay taxes for. This is being cut back and we are told that our rural roads will revert to gravel. That is outrageous. The county spends alot of money wasting time on roads. This year it repaved River Rd. from Guerneville to the freeway, a perfectly serviceable road that didn't need work. Last year miles of perfectly good guardrails between Guerneville and Duncans Mills were torn out and replaced with identical guardrails. What a dumb waste of money that could have been put to a far better use. But you think we should just shut up and pay more taxes so policy wonks and data reduction clerks can have something to do and politicians like you can feel good about their job? Give me a break. Spend the tax dollars where it will be most effective, on things that benefit taxpayers, things that taxpayers want, deserve, and expect. Start with decent roads.

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I noticed the same waste a few months ago in the Larkfield area. Old Redwood Highway was repaved from Windsor all the way to Santa Rosa. Also, they didn't stop at the freeway on River Road. They kept going on Mark West Springs Road up to at least Riebli Road. In the midst of the traffic snarls, I remember bicycling along and thinking at the time, "Why are they doing this? There was nothing wrong with these surfaces before they started, they were more than serviceable."

Guys, it's called road maintenance. They have a schedule, and the focus is on the most heavily used ones. You can't do resurfacing in the middle of the winter rains. So you get ahead of the curve to anticipate the damage.

What chaps my grits is the aggregate crap they're now using to save money. All that "gravel", in reality asphalt chips, or gravel covered in asphalt, that gets thrown up after it's newly put down. I know the traffic serves to seal the surface. But when did my car become part of the road maintenance equipment?

And JBox your savaging of Larry is unfounded. He's one of the most thoughtful, accessible and conscientious local politicians around. And he's retiring, so he's well out of it.

The popular kneejerk abuse of all politicians, just because they're politicians, serves no one, and contributes to the resistance by talented and caring people to running for office. I don't have any problem with slamming a pol, but only if it is based on their specific actions, their record.

Gonna vote my conscience not my fears today! Hope everyone else does as well. Although I'm not naive enough to think that's what's really going to happen.

The County of Sonoma and most responsible cities use a process called a Pavement Management System to prioritize road and street maintenance and repairs. It is essentially a form of triage, which recognizes that we don't have the money to adequately maintain all of our roads and therefore allocates what resources there are in a rational way. Heavily used roads that are in decent shape get the most attention in order to keep them functional. Those that are too far gone to simply repave must, unfortunately, be abandoned. Those in between get repaired if possible.

This is not a failure of local leadership, it's a local symptom of a financially collapsing global empire.

I recently read that Sonoma County's share of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is $1.8 billion thus far. Likely our share of the cost of the Wall St bailouts and 'tax cuts' under Bush and Obama is even greater. Add to that our share of the interest on borrowing $2 to $3 billion a day for the last 10 years AND the cost of spending more on our military than all other nations in the world combined and you can see why there's NO money, locally or nationally, for infrastructure.

The outrage should be in where the money goes. I'm sure that some of our road tax money is going to fund the overpriced, Chinese-made bridge that they're building to replace the old Bay Bridge.

The politicians focus on where they get the most votes. Their only interest (typically) is getting re-elected, not actually listening to ALL of their constituents. Since the number of people living in the west county are not a majority, the politicians don't listen to us.

The biggest example is Mr. Efren "asphalt" Carillo. Build business, at any cost, even the expense of the constituency, until our county looks like another third world country. As long as he's in the "ruling class" - he doesn't give a whit of concern to the rest of us.

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

Guys, it's called road maintenance. They have a schedule, and the focus is on the most heavily used ones. You can't do resurfacing in the middle of the winter rains. So you get ahead of the curve to anticipate the damage.

What chaps my grits is the aggregate crap they're now using to save money. All that "gravel", in reality asphalt chips, or gravel covered in asphalt, that gets thrown up after it's newly put down. I know the traffic serves to seal the surface. But when did my car become part of the road maintenance equipment?

And JBox your savaging of Larry is unfounded. He's one of the most thoughtful, accessible and conscientious local politicians around. And he's retiring, so he's well out of it.

The popular kneejerk abuse of all politicians, just because they're politicians, serves no one, and contributes to the resistance by talented and caring people to running for office. I don't have any problem with slamming a pol, but only if it is based on their specific actions, their record.

Gonna vote my conscience not my fears today! Hope everyone else does as well. Although I'm not naive enough to think that's what's really going to happen.

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Miles,

I'm sure you're not advocating for a local, convenient source of quality asphalt products, but what I was bringing up was 2 examples of the waste of tax dollars for road maintenance in the county. I think the county should get its priorities straight, starting with the program Larry mentioned, the Pavement Management System ( PMS, are you kidding? ). Miles and Larry, apologizing for the bureaucracy doesn't ring true with me. And popular kneejerk abuse of politicians? Savaging? As one of my favorite social philosophers said, "Exxcccuuuuuuuuuuusse me!!!" I have a right to say my opinion even if it isn't in favor of the esteemed local politicians. Larry's specific action was to call for more taxes from the public. We are in the most severe recession since the 30's and his solution is for the public to open our wallets. I say to the county tighten your belt like the rest of us and quit wasting our money. Getting the priorities straight and living up to the most basic responsibility of providing safe roads in one of the cornerstones of the modern social contract.

After I voted today one of the poll workers said "That wasn't so painful", My response was "The pain comes later".

Well, not to complicate the discussion...then again, life ain't simple. Here's another perspective.

Perhaps paved roads are overvalued in our petrochemical-centric culture, although I admit I'd rather bike on pavement and that pavement can reduce sediment deposition into streams. Get rid of the bulky, high-speed death traps we prefer to move ourselves about in and I could get more behind asphalt.

Perhaps we should ask why county governments are struggling to maintain infrastructure while the Department of Defense can afford to lose billions of taxpayer funds, even while spending trillions on illegal wars and the occupation of hundreds of foreign nations. If funding road maintenance is so important, then why not elect some politicians who are really interested in serving in our best interests? Why not vote for someone who has a vision of the future, instead of perpetuating the culture of paranoia and fear so characteristic of all levels of American government? If roads are so damned important, you need to understand why roads fall apart, and yes, waging wars for oil and global resource hegemony are a necessary part of the discussion!

Perhaps we should consider that if roads can't be maintained, then perhaps we might consider what might work better: the much reduced maintenance needs of light rail, bike paths, and lifestyle choices in travel. We might consider that life works just fine when it's slowed down.

We might even consider that drivers might slow down on unpaved roads, something I'd appreciate as a frequent walker along west county roads, where pavement improvements are tantamount to license to drive to kill. Potholed roads slow drivers down, although as a bicyclist , I realize they do increase the need for constant attention to the task at hand.

My, my, the choices are never as simple as they might at first appear.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Larry,

Actually the outrage is that road maintenance is one of the core things that virtually all citizens are happy to pay taxes for. This is being cut back and we are told that our rural roads will revert to gravel. That is outrageous. The county spends alot of money wasting time on roads. This year it repaved River Rd. from Guerneville to the freeway, a perfectly serviceable road that didn't need work. Last year miles of perfectly good guardrails between Guerneville and Duncans Mills were torn out and replaced with identical guardrails. What a dumb waste of money that could have been put to a far better use. But you think we should just shut up and pay more taxes so policy wonks and data reduction clerks can have something to do and politicians like you can feel good about their job? Give me a break. Spend the tax dollars where it will be most effective, on things that benefit taxpayers, things that taxpayers want, deserve, and expect. Start with decent roads.

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And to add to this, as mentioned in an article I submitted 5 days ago, CAFRs(Comprehensive Annual Financial Report) has a sweet, hidden policy whereby taxpayers collectively surrender enormous assets to the government, which then invests the trillions that swell in these accounts. As this money is secreted away, taxpayers are warned of debilitating budget deficits to either squeeze more taxes from them and/or cut public services. To add insult to injury, the state commits a gross lie of omission by never informing citizens of their withheld trillions as they eliminate jobs, reduce education, and attack the quality of our lives. https://www.wanttoknow.info/banking_finance/cafr_comprehensive_annual_financial_reports

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Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:

This is not a failure of local leadership, it's a local symptom of a financially collapsing global empire.

I recently read that Sonoma County's share of the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars is $1.8 billion thus far. Likely our share of the cost of the Wall St bailouts and 'tax cuts' under Bush and Obama is even greater. Add to that our share of the interest on borrowing $2 to $3 billion a day for the last 10 years AND the cost of spending more on our military than all other nations in the world combined and you can see why there's NO money, locally or nationally, for infrastructure.

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Your proposals seem fine for someone who lives in, or close to, a town; I don't, and there ain't gonna be any "light rail, bike paths" or (what does this mean, anyway?) "lifestyle choices in travel" for those of us who live 40 or 50 miles from town.

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Posted in reply to the post by phloem:

Well, not to complicate the discussion...then again, life ain't simple. Here's another perspective.

Perhaps paved roads are overvalued in our petrochemical-centric culture, although I admit I'd rather bike on pavement and that pavement can reduce sediment deposition into streams. Get rid of the bulky, high-speed death traps we prefer to move ourselves about in and I could get more behind asphalt.

Perhaps we should ask why county governments are struggling to maintain infrastructure while the Department of Defense can afford to lose billions of taxpayer funds, even while spending trillions on illegal wars and the occupation of hundreds of foreign nations. If funding road maintenance is so important, then why not elect some politicians who are really interested in serving in our best interests? Why not vote for someone who has a vision of the future, instead of perpetuating the culture of paranoia and fear so characteristic of all levels of American government? If roads are so damned important, you need to understand why roads fall apart, and yes, waging wars for oil and global resource hegemony are a necessary part of the discussion!

Perhaps we should consider that if roads can't be maintained, then perhaps we might consider what might work better: the much reduced maintenance needs of light rail, bike paths, and lifestyle choices in travel. We might consider that life works just fine when it's slowed down.

We might even consider that drivers might slow down on unpaved roads, something I'd appreciate as a frequent walker along west county roads, where pavement improvements are tantamount to license to drive to kill. Potholed roads slow drivers down, although as a bicyclist , I realize they do increase the need for constant attention to the task at hand.

My, my, the choices are never as simple as they might at first appear.

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If the county's plan is to stop paving our roads then why do we need the Dutra Asphalt plant?

Excellent point!

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Posted in reply to the post by Eileen M.:

If the county's plan is to stop paving our roads then why do we need the Dutra Asphalt plant?

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A lot of one-time federal stimulus money (recovery act) was used for some major repaving projects in Sonoma County. California got more money than any other state because they were able to quickly identify projects to spend money on.

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Posted in reply to the post by Runningbare:

I noticed the same waste a few months ago in the Larkfield area. Old Redwood Highway was repaved from Windsor all the way to Santa Rosa. Also, they didn't stop at the freeway on River Road. They kept going on Mark West Springs Road up to at least Riebli Road. In the midst of the traffic snarls, I remember bicycling along and thinking at the time, "Why are they doing this? There was nothing wrong with these surfaces before they started, they were more than serviceable."

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JBox wrote: We are in the most severe recession since the 30's and his solution is for the public to open our wallets. I say to the county tighten your belt like the rest of us and quit wasting our money. Getting the priorities straight and living up to the most basic responsibility of providing safe roads in one of the cornerstones of the modern social contract.

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So, where would you suggest further cuts in the county budget? What are your priorities for public spending? You're aware that major cutting has been going on for the last two years, right? So what more would you put on the chopping block? Please, back up your call for straight priorities and responsibility. Show us where the waste is.Talk is cheap, actions matter more than words.

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

So, where would you suggest further cuts in the county budget? What are your priorities for public spending? You're aware that major cutting has been going on for the last two years, right? So what more would you put on the chopping block? Please, back up your call for straight priorities and responsibility. Show us where the waste is.Talk is cheap, actions matter more than words.

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I already gave you 2 examples of unnecessary road work which puts other roads that really need repair on low priority. Sonoma county has among the worst roads in the state.

Another example, since you asked, has to do with vacation rentals.The county recently voted to institute a whole new set of rules and regulations for vacation rentals under the assumption that they were creating problems with noise, parking and so forth. Out of the more than 700 vacation rentals only about 20 were considered problem properties, most in the Kenwood area where Shirley Zanes's constituents complained, probably with good reason.

The county's response was to have PRMD staff draw up a whole set of regulations, the planning commission held hearings, and the final version of the ordinance is slated to go into effect next year. The preponderance of complaints could have been dealt with by enforcing a simple noise ordinance, yet the supervisors, planners, and staff waste resources on an ordinance that is unnecessary, burdensome, that infringes on private property rights, impedes tourism, decreases the number of rentals that bring in lots of economic activity to the county.and treats vacation rental unequally from their next door neighbors who may create the exact same problems but are not subject to the ordinance. There is going to be alot of resistance, creating a whole new set of expensive monitoring and enforcement issues for the county.

And the piece de resistance is the county wants to build a spiffy new administration center and tear down most of the existing buildings. That just makes me wanna puke. I say clean up roadkill first and we'll talk about fancy new offices when the public is in the mood

I have been thinking about this since the piece ran in the PD. Not long after, trucks showed up near where I live and began jackhammering the curbs and putting in new ones, with wheelchair/stroller access. We now have perfect access where almost no one ever walks. There are two houses on the southwest side, two on the south east side and three each on the northwest and northeast sides. On most days when I take my pup for a walk, I encounter no one. There are no businesses here, either.

Now bigger trucks have arrived and last night they repaved Valley View Court, where there are maybe 8 houses, possibly just six. It is not a thoroughfare, it is a cul de sac. It looks like they will next repave Ragle Ave. South (they started at 7 a.m. this morning), also not a thoroughfare.

WTF? This makes no sense to me. I drive on Frei Rd. at least once a week and that road, which is a thoroughfare, is in serious disrepair. I drive down Lynch Rd. several times a week and it has some of the worst potholes I have ever seen. Big, dangerous potholes that can take out a tire.

This one is beyond me; I have no idea what those in charge are thinking.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

...Another example, since you asked, has to do with vacation rentals.The county recently voted to institute a whole new set of rules and regulations for vacation rentals under the assumption that they were creating problems with noise, parking and so forth. ... The county's response was to have PRMD staff draw up a whole set of regulations, the planning commission held hearings, and the final version of the ordinance is slated to go into effect next year. The preponderance of complaints could have been dealt with by enforcing a simple noise ordinance, ..

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good response. I think this highlights the reason for the wildly disparate perspective people take on government, though. My first reaction to this thread was that the focus on the salary of one of the government employees and resistance to increased taxes that would go to improving roadways is myopic. If you look at the way the government actually spends its money, most of it is military, education and a couple of widely used social programs (e.g. Social Security). So from that perspective, even welfare, much less spending on the stereotypical Caltrans guy holding up a shovel, is just a rounding error in the budget. But the conservative crowd seems totally focused on those kind of issues, and gets pretty excited about what's statistically unimportant waste.

Your post highlights why they do, though. On a local level, that's not unimportant waste - it's easy to see, it's a nuisance and it's overkill. And it does add up to real money, though I still don't think it's enough to make a huge difference in overall government spending. As Clancy pointed out, the government's unwilling to address the big issues and it's hard to see why more people aren't outraged by that, instead focusing on what seem to be more petty concerns. I can see why it happens, though - "common sense" is in the eye of the beholder. I know a lot of people who think the "common sense" approach to noisy neighbors would be to 1) just talk to them yourself and leave government out of it. or 2) act like a man and kick their ass if they continue to act like jerks. Their frustration with overly-complicated systems and procedures is huge, and they're confronted with them all the time. Personally, I think that's a different problem, and I hate to see these kind of issues turning people against all government actions.

Are Valley View Court and Ragle Avenue South in Sebastopol? If so then you're complaining about Sebastopol repaving projects taking precident over a county road (Frei). The county can't use Sebastopol's money to repave roads.

I think the real issue is whether the work really needs to be done. There are engineers in the public works department that survey roads and determine if they need work. If they wait until the road looks bad, the cost of maintenance becomes much higher.

Ron

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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:

I have been thinking about this since the piece ran in the PD. Not long after, trucks showed up near where I live and began jackhammering the curbs and putting in new ones, with wheelchair/stroller access. We now have perfect access where almost no one ever walks. There are two houses on the southwest side, two on the south east side and three each on the northwest and northeast sides. On most days when I take my pup for a walk, I encounter no one. There are no businesses here, either.

Now bigger trucks have arrived and last night they repaved Valley View Court, where there are maybe 8 houses, possibly just six. It is not a thoroughfare, it is a cul de sac. It looks like they will next repave Ragle Ave. South (they started at 7 a.m. this morning), also not a thoroughfare.

WTF? This makes no sense to me. I drive on Frei Rd. at least once a week and that road, which is a thoroughfare, is in serious disrepair. I drive down Lynch Rd. several times a week and it has some of the worst potholes I have ever seen. Big, dangerous potholes that can take out a tire.

This one is beyond me; I have no idea what those in charge are thinking.

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Posted in reply to the post by rekarp:

Are Valley View Court and Ragle Avenue South in Sebastopol? If so then you're complaining about Sebastopol repaving projects taking precident over a county road (Frei). The county can't use Sebastopol's money to repave roads.

I think the real issue is whether the work really needs to be done. There are engineers in the public works department that survey roads and determine if they need work. If they wait until the road looks bad, the cost of maintenance becomes much higher.

Ron

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You are correct about Valley View and Ragle Ave. South being in the city (my mail box is in the city limits, my house in the county; it gets confusing). But I think Lynch Rd. is in the city and it is a highly traveled road. It should be fixed. Soon.

While there are protocols and schedules that road departments follow, whether city or county, they also take calls, letters and emails.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease!

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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:

I have been thinking about this since the piece ran in the PD. Not long after, trucks showed up near where I live and began jackhammering the curbs and putting in new ones, with wheelchair/stroller access. We now have perfect access where almost no one ever walks...

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This may have to with the Americans with Disabilities Ace (ADA) rather than road maintenance.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

good response. I think this highlights the reason for the wildly disparate perspective people take on government, though. My first reaction to this thread was that the focus on the salary of one of the government employees and resistance to increased taxes that would go to improving roadways is myopic. If you look at the way the government actually spends its money, most of it is military, education and a couple of widely used social programs (e.g. Social Security). So from that perspective, even welfare, much less spending on the stereotypical Caltrans guy holding up a shovel, is just a rounding error in the budget. But the conservative crowd seems totally focused on those kind of issues, and gets pretty excited about what's statistically unimportant waste.

Your post highlights why they do, though. On a local level, that's not unimportant waste - it's easy to see, it's a nuisance and it's overkill. And it does add up to real money, though I still don't think it's enough to make a huge difference in overall government spending. As Clancy pointed out, the government's unwilling to address the big issues and it's hard to see why more people aren't outraged by that, instead focusing on what seem to be more petty concerns. I can see why it happens, though - "common sense" is in the eye of the beholder. I know a lot of people who think the "common sense" approach to noisy neighbors would be to 1) just talk to them yourself and leave government out of it. or 2) act like a man and kick their ass if they continue to act like jerks. Their frustration with overly-complicated systems and procedures is huge, and they're confronted with them all the time. Personally, I think that's a different problem, and I hate to see these kind of issues turning people against all government actions.

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Thanks for the thoughtful response. It is at the local level where the frustration with modern life is most likely to be felt, the national stage is is of such a scale and at such a great distance that most folks just feel powerless and alienated. So, for the record I'm not against all government action. Obviously there is the need for the government to preserve, protect, and defend the constitution and the Bill of Rights at every level of society. I wish there was a better balance of local control vs. state/federal. I also wish the government at all levels didn't continue the inexorable insinuation into the private affairs and lives of the citizenry.
It seems we must continually submit to increasing complexity of legislation that regulates and enforces human behavior in increasingly minute ways. Whatever happened to common sense and personal responsibility? Its being legislated out of existence and I for one lament that.

But I digress. This thread was about local road maintenance and how the county said the public is just going to have to accept that lots of rural roads are going to revert to gravel. My reaction was I'm mad as hell and I'm just not gonna.... well maybe on second thought I'm just gonna have to take it??

Here's my question - if the County says it cannot pay to fix our roads - Then what is the County paying for?

According to the budget, salary and benefit costs an AVERAGE per employee of $100K.

Salary is 55% of the budget.

4230 employees

$763 Million budget.

This is $180K per employee TIMES 55% = $100K.

https://www.sonoma-county.org/cao/ci...et_impacts.htm

The Median family income in Sonoma county is $91K.

That would tell me the County is overpaying its employees if we assume that their employees should, on average, have a similar family income to their own county.

Family income includes 2 income families. Which represents a good amount of families
in Sonoma County. I assume many county workers are in 2 income families.
So, the average INDIVIDUAL salary of a worker should be less than $91K, maybe substantially less to be on par with the rest of the county.

However, the County seems to believe that any one person should receive as much as a complete family unit. Based on these few numbers, I would suspect that the average county employee median family income is substantially more than $91K.

I don't know how the County determines worth of its work force, but I don't believe their workforce deserves SUBSTANTIALLY more than the public which pays its salaries.

One reason we cannot pay for real road repair is too much money paying to cover the old potholes of pension plans and new pavement of ongoing salaries for either too many employees OR employees receiving more than necessary.

If those salaries are effectively substantially higher than the county population income, there are MANY qualified people working in the county at substantially less money.

This all comes down to accountability. Politicians are doing a horrible job holding their own administration accountable for budget. They should be making it clear to us that, in fact, they have a lean government and can therefore deliver services such as road paving. Instead, politicians like Kerns, O'Reilly, Kelley all left a poorly managed administration as their legacy, and chose to blame Sacto politicians or the economy or Obama or someone else for their budgetary problems. These problems were built up over the years of good times, but really, didn't track the local economy and local income. We all saw the Sonoma housing bubble and costs escalate - the county chose to pay more to its own staff instead of finding ways to keep the total housing costs down. Hence the county blames 'inflation' for their salary levels - inflation including now substantially reduced housing costs.

But the county is clearly continuing to overpay to this day -

Few cared when times were good - but now folks need to decide if they want to help fix this problem or not.

I for one would prefer NOT to worry about what the county is paying its staff.
I would prefer to believe they are getting a fair salary and a good pension to make up for somewhat lower salaries. But I don't see any of our elected officials making these statements.
Instead, they seem frozen when it comes to reviewing these costs.

Maybe the new Sups will do what the previous Board failed to do?

Supervise?

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

But I digress. This thread was about local road maintenance and how the county said the public is just going to have to accept that lots of rural roads are going to revert to gravel. My reaction was I'm mad as hell and I'm just not gonna.... well maybe on second thought I'm just gonna have to take it??

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I could be wrong, but I don't think that any town does its own road maintenance; I believe that all the roads are either county roads or state highways.

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Posted in reply to the post by oliviathunderkitty:

You are correct about Valley View and Ragle Ave. South being in the city (my mail box is in the city limits, my house in the county; it gets confusing). But I think Lynch Rd. is in the city and it is a highly traveled road. It should be fixed. Soon.

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Posted in reply to the post by Bryan:

According to the budget, salary and benefit costs an AVERAGE per employee of $100K.

The Median family income in Sonoma county is $91K.

That would tell me the County is overpaying its employees if we assume that their employees should, on average, have a similar family income to their own county.

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Just to nitpick, you're comparing apples & oranges. "salary and benefits" vs. (implied) takehome pay. Rule of thumb is that employees cost their employer about double their salary. So hey, they're going for cheap! let's buy some more!

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

I could be wrong, but I don't think that any town does its own road maintenance; I believe that all the roads are either county roads or state highways.

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Not correct. State highways are maintained by the State (Caltrans). Roads within any City Limits are maintained by that City. All the rest (in unincorporated areas) are maintained by the County. Only two small portions of Lynch Road are in the City of Sebastopol, the part nearest Highway 116, and the part from Beattie Lane to about Enos Avenue. You can tell which they are because their pavement is in better shape--the City resurfaced them a few years ago.

Oh, thanks; I guess by "town" I didn't mean "city". What defines a city, anyway? I don't think Guerneville does it's own roads, or Forestville. I know Cazadero doesn't. So maybe just Sebastopol and Santa Rosa?

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Posted in reply to the post by Suz:

Not correct. State highways are maintained by the State (Caltrans). Roads within any City Limits are maintained by that City. All the rest (in unincorporated areas) are maintained by the County. Only two small portions of Lynch Road are in the City of Sebastopol, the part nearest Highway 116, and the part from Beattie Lane to about Enos Avenue. You can tell which they are because their pavement is in better shape--the City resurfaced them a few years ago.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

Oh, thanks; I guess by "town" I didn't mean "city". What defines a city, anyway? I don't think Guerneville does it's own roads, or Forestville. I know Cazadero doesn't. So maybe just Sebastopol and Santa Rosa?

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You are correct that Guerneville and Forestville are not incorporated Cities and the County is responsible for their road maintenance, except for Highway 116, which is maintained by Caltrans.

There are nine incorporated Cities in Sonoma County. They are Cloverdale, Healdsburg, Windsor, Santa Rosa, Rohnert Park, Cotati, Petaluma, Sonoma and Sebastopol. Each of these is responsible for street (and other systems') maintenance within their boundaries.