Please click on this link to learn the REAL problem with Pit Bulls...and guess what...it's not the dogs!!!
https://www.nsalamerica.org/pitbull/realproblem.html
Printable View
Please click on this link to learn the REAL problem with Pit Bulls...and guess what...it's not the dogs!!!
https://www.nsalamerica.org/pitbull/realproblem.html
This is what you REALLY want to see. You will :crying2:and :burningmad:, but it is THE best pro Pit Bull thing I have ever found.
https://gprime.net/flash.php/thepitbullproblem
Lucinda
I read that article showing that pit bulls are trained to fight, so the real problem is with the evil trainers.
Nonsense! I have heard many stories about pit bulls that were pets from birth. They were loving and friendly pets. Then one day, for no known reason, they bit off someone's face. Often a child that they knew well.
And casting the blame on evil trainers leads me to wonder why the article is written at all. After all, why aren't those same evil trainers training beagles or collies or Irish setters? Could it be that the pit bulls are inclined to vicious fighting from birth? Sounds right to me.
I think from now on, when I walk my dogs in a vineyard, I will make sure to have a sturdy club with me, for protection. Even better would be if pit bulls were banned in Sonoma County.
Sciguy
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wildflower:
Ever wonder how Kenyans keep winning long distance runs?
No, not all of them.......just wondering......
or why the NBA is so Black?
other things too....just wondering.....aloud
If a pit pull bites a child its probably cause the child was mistreating the dog and not being properly supervised by the parents. Some people even though they are nice kind great people just have no idea how to train or care for a dog. They think with there ego and call there dog a "badass". These are the worst people. TELL YOUR DOG NO! I see people all the time, there dog is jumping up and trying to dominate everyone it comes into contact with and the owners don't even do anything. This video made me cry, actually I cry myself to sleep most nights cause the god damn human race is just so fucked up. I have a pure breed pit bull, I never received his papers from the breeder, now Sonoma county wants to put him down, EVERYONE THIS DOG HAS EVER COME INTO CONTACT WITH LOVES HIM.
Too bad SciGuy doesn't apply logic and reason over media myths and down right lies about these great dogs. I have 3 of my own and two fosters living in harmony and raised both of my children around Pit Bulls. Both off to college and faces intact.
You won't find Pit Bulls being banned in Sonoma County or any other place in California as Breed Bans are not allowed, thanks to our States Constitution. Thanks for posting the link, wildflower. I've read it before, but always enjoy going back from time to time.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sciguy:
I told my son, "DON'T get a Pit Bull, DON"T ever come around with it if you do"....so he went ahead and got one, he has a girlfriend and a baby now....and of course, this beautiful, gentle, intelligent, sweet, pit bull too.....I tried not to fall in love with her....but she is now part of a large family with several children...and she is around other dogs....retriever, rat terrier and THEY are the bossy dogs...so, I have to think.....Pit Bulls cannot be made out to always be the bad dog ALL THE TIME!....it is how they are trained, and treated on a daily basis like any other pup....I definitely have changed my mind......thank youQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Patrick:
Maybe there's a lot of Pit Bulls in Kenya.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Lenny:
All this talk is for the most part great.
I heard the other day that spaniels bite more people then pit bulls, then again I do not see gangsters and thugs running around with springer spaniels either.
Pit bulls are pretty much banned in Sonoma County already, the shelter only recognizes 3 registries that allow you to0 avoid getting your pit spayed/neutered( AKC, UKC, ADBA). If your dog is not registered with one of these registries you have to get your dog fixed....they say this is because of overpopulation of pit bulls in Sonoma County.
Currently, because I have refused to get my pit bull fixed, I owe county collections over $900.00 and they took my drivers license away until I pay it. All because I like my dog just the way he is. Thanks.
The county can't enforce the law. I agree the Pit Bull population is way to high as my rescue currently has no more room to take anymore in, so forcing people to spay and neuter their Pit Bulls has failed. The County Shelter also keeps them all in the back where the public can't see them and eventually kills them. Including many highly adoptable dogs. ADBA will register just about anything and is not a valid registry in my opinion.
I believe the Kenyans' speed is due to the fact that they have, forever, I guess, run everywhere; if they want to see, or deliver a message to, someone in a distant village, they RUN there!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Lenny:
I, for one, am puzzled as to why you wouldn't want to get your dog fixed unless you want to breed it, It really is the responsible thing to do, but as they say - whatever. Is it worth losing driving priveliges? I do want to contribute this observation though. I own a few rentals and have a pet policy that allows cats and dogs, except for pit bulls. The only incidents involving bad dog behavior have been with pit bulls and I just can't take that chance any more. I am a dog lover and believe they enhance people's lives. But you can't avoid the plain fact that the pit bull breed was bred to fight and kill and they just have that hardwired in. I know the breed has more than its share of clueless knucklehead owners and raised properly they can be sweet, loving pets. But personal experience also tells me they are unpredictable and prone to aggressive, dangerous behavior. I'll take my chances with a spaniel bite over a pit bull. I'm just baffled with the breed's popularity. Why not get a dog that is bred to be sweet and fun instead of aggressive?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Krunk:
Sorry to hear you've had problems with Pit Bulls. But the overwhelming number of Pit Bull type dogs are not going to get into trouble. Maybe you ought to check your tenants more carefully, regardless of the type of dog they have. That's your problem, not the dog. You've got to consider how often that dog gets walked and exercised, how often that dog is socialized, does the dog spend all it;s time outside, or is it part of the family?
You are not fully understanding the temperament of these dogs. It is not always hardwired. It is often environmental as has been the case of a few dogs I've rehabilitated in the past years. And the only thing a Pit Bull was bred to "kill" was vermin on ranches and farms. The Pit Bull type dog was around long before some moron decided to put them in a ring and fight. Fights rarely ended in the death of another dog. Please do your research before posting what you believe to be "fact."
Historically, the Pit Bull was never bred to be human aggressive. In the days of legal dog fighting, any dog exhibiting said behavior was culled. With legitimate breeders and the majority of owners, it is still undesirable and unacceptable behavior. The dog has no choice as to who raises him and how or what he is trained or conditioned for. Again, take a good look at your tenants. That's your problem. The only ones breeding dogs to fight or kill are your gangbangers, thugs and druggies. Like some of your past tenants, I'm sure. I now have 7 Pit Bulls in my care, 5 of them in the room with me right now, asleep in a pile. Do some real research on the history of the American Pit Bull Terrier in America. Read it from start to finish. Educate yourself before posting such nonsense and hearsay.
PS: I've been bitten and or attacked by other types of dogs including mutts, but I have never been bitten by a Pit Bull. Ever. And I've been around many, many of them. The one that bit the most? The Cocker Spaniel. Why? Because in the 1980s, they were all the rage. Now it's the mini rat like Chihuahuas. Land Piranha. :wink:
I actually tried to get my pit bull to chase some wild turkeys off my property, ended up with him running with his tail between his legs. Also I have 20 poultry birds on my property that roam free.....with the pit bull ( 7 ducks 13 chickens 3 roosters 10 hens ). I have seen bad dogs of all breeds, I am blessed to have such a well tempered and behaved pit bull, I worked at it also. My dog is my best friend and I spend time with him accordingly. I have never seen a dog kill another dog, a human, or any other animal, I have owned dogs for 30 years. Have you ever seen a dog seriously hurt anything? Was it a pit bull? There are tons of people out there giving second hand information as truth, if you see a dog behaving badly would you do anything about it? Would you try to inform the owners? Possibly report them if they failed to be responsible?
Pit bull isn't even a breed, and the variation among the dogs we recognize as pits is so wide, that I wonder where this hardwiring takes place. It is true we get stories in the media about pits attacking people, and I'm sure they are true, but the last time one of these stories was in the news, I knew a lab/shepherd mix that bit a neighbor's child's leg so badly he needed 22 stitches. It was not a pitbull, however, so it wasn't in the news. Americans love having someone to hate, some way to feel superior (US) to "them." For the last few years it has been pits, before that it was dobies, rottweilers, German Shepherds. Every movie I see about Nazis has German Shepherds in it attacking people. Should we then assume that German Shepherd are hardwired to kill? The problem is that we suck up whatever the media tells us is the enemy of the day, be it animal or person, race or nation.
I love dogs and the feeling is usually mutual but I give pit bulls a wide berth. Personally I think the breed should be allowed to die out.
My daughter's partner had a pit bull that never attacked anyone or any other dog, though she was very territorial and not really friendly to anyone other than her owners. When she died of old age he got another pit bull for sentimental reasons. This dog seemed very friendly at first but proved to be a disaster. Despite all their efforts to restrain it, it would attack any dog it encountered, culminating in an attack on an old family pet. The pit bull had the other dog by the throat and almost killed it. After that they had the pit put to sleep. They are now the proud owners of a German pointer and would never consider owning another pit bull.
For the Record a dog commonly known as a Pit Bull is either an American Pit Bull Terrier, an American Staffordshire Terrier or a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Three very distinct breeds of dog with similar characteristics. We don't tolerate stigmatizing an entire culture or ethnic group over the actions of an individual so why do we think it's ok to do it with an animal who has no choice in his upbringing? More times than not, it's environment. Did you raise that dog with the family or did you banish him to a chain in the yard?
Since some people are naturally prone to prejudice and are under the impression that all dogs considered to be "Pit Bull" are bad dogs and post nasty comments and of course the obligatory Bad Pit Bull Experience, here is my experience. 8 years ago, a co worker brought to my attention a dog that may need a home. She told me "She might be a Pit Bull, I'm not sure." I met her, she was a Pit Bull, and I took her home. She had been left tied to a tree by a rope around her neck and a bone dry bowl with earwigs in it under a dead tree. She was 9 months old. In the following years I've taken other dogs from similar situations, some much worse. One current came from a known dog fighter. She was to be used as a Bait Dog because she wasn't "game" enough. For those of you who do not know, the most vile of dog fighters use weaker dogs to increase aggression and gameness (willingness to fight) in their better performing dogs. My only question to the neighbor who intervened was "how soon can you get her here?" Barely a year old and already had a litter. She also has a blood oxygen level of 85%. She'll ned more testing and possible surgery to get better blood flow to her lungs. She's been with me for over one year and is the best dog I have ever come across when it comes to temperament. There is no animal this girl wouldn't make a friend with.
The unfortunate truth is, the bad owners, the irresponsible owners, the gang bangers, druggies and thugs are the ones who get all the press. Because people who post nasty comments and negative stories eat it up faster than the latest tweet from Lyndsay Lohan. Good Pit Bulls don't sell papers and they certainly don't do nightly news ratings any good, do they?
I have worked with many Pit Bull type dogs. I have never had one respond negatively towards me, no matter what they'd been through. However, you can give a dog all the love and affection, but if you don't include structure, discipline, training and exercise, you are going to have problems. No matter the breed or type of dog. I wonder what these people are like whose dogs "suddenly Snapped" or "out of nowhere he..." and how much those dogs were a part of their daily life. A dog is a living breathing sentient being, not a lawn ornament, or an additional set of testicles for a man inflicted with a bad case of macho insecurity.
We don't have a Pit Bull problem, we have a people problem
Wrote a great retort, got flushed by unfamiliar and sticky software. May this suffice:
The deadliest dogs
Merritt Clifton, editor of Animal People, has conducted an unusually detailed study of dog bites from 1982 to the present. (Clifton, Dog attack deaths and maimings, U.S. & Canada, September 1982 to November 13, 2006; click here to read it.) The Clifton study show the number of serious canine-inflicted injuries by breed. The author's observations about the breeds and generally how to deal with the dangerous dog problem are enlightening.
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states:If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.Clifton's opinions are as interesting as his statistics. For example, he says, "Pit bulls and Rottweilers are accordingly dogs who not only must be handled with special precautions, but also must be regulated with special requirements appropriate to the risk they may pose to the public and other animals, if they are to be kept at all."
https://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Seems like we are all buying in, giving this issue tons of attention. Probably why its in the papers, it gets people reading. Yet another reason I do not own a TV, watch cable, or read the paper.- Show quoted text -
Simple fact: Dog bite statistics are unreliable as not all dog bite/attacks are reported. If any breed, type or mix there of shows a higher percentage of bites/attacks, one has to take into account the popularity of the breed. But then again, who's going to report a2lb lb Chihuahua?
For a more reliable source of information, please visit www.atts.org. The American Temperament Test Society temperament tests thousands of dogs of virtually every breed of dog, and the American Staffordshire Terrier, the American Pit Bull Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, AKA: Pit Bull, have higher passing grades that a multitude of well known "family dogs."
Anyone aware of the Pomeranian that killed a weeks old infant? The supposed "Pit Bull" that attacked a person yet turns out to be a Black Lab? These stories never make headlines and if they do it's "Dog Attacks" not "Family Labrador Attacks." And if there ever is a mistake, there is never any printed correction.
I've spent enough time rehabilitating these great dogs to realize you can't change everyone's mind. I have changed a few, and I'll change some more, but I don't bother with anyone who refuses to listen. There are always those who are so set in their ways, the sheep, the bigots, the ignorant and the plain uninformed.
The overwhelming majority of people know and understand what the real problem is, so maybe some day some of you here, like those who have posted their own change of heart, you will too discover the truth about the Pit Bull.
Does this study mention how these dogs where treated before their attacks? Where they mistreated, trained for "play- attacks", tied up, alone all day, locked up all day, do they come from dog fighters, etc, etc...?Quote:
According to the Clifton study, pit bulls, Rottweilers, Presa Canarios and their mixes are responsible for 74% of attacks that were included in the study, 68% of the attacks upon children, 82% of the attacks upon adults, 65% of the deaths, and 68% of the maimings. In more than two-thirds of the cases included in the study, the life-threatening or fatal attack was apparently the first known dangerous behavior by the animal in question. Clifton states: [INDENT] If almost any other dog has a bad moment, someone may get bitten, but will not be maimed for life or killed, and the actuarial risk is accordingly reasonable. If a pit bull terrier or a Rottweiler has a bad moment, often someone is maimed or killed--and that has now created off-the-chart actuarial risk, for which the dogs as well as their victims are paying the price.
Some dog owners have these kind of dogs trained to attack but do not take care of them properly, then give them away and do not mention they where trained to attack.
Yesterday I spoke at some length with a Sonoma County Animal Control officer who told me in no uncertain terms the #1 "breed" he deals with are pit bulls, no other breed even comes close. Apparantly the pit bull was bred to fight animals but to not be aggressive to humans, however when it is mixed with other guard type breeds like mastiffs they can be aggressive toward humans too. He said these genetic factors combined with owners training or lack thereof results in a pretty big problem. By the way he owns pit bulls himself but made a point to not apologize for the breed like some folks on this forum. He just told it like it is and it made perfect sense to me.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by edie:
Of course Sonoma County has to deal with Pit Bulls more than any other type of dog. That has to do with a faulty Breed Specific mandatory spay and neuter law that they've even admitted they can't enforce. And the question remains: How were those dogs treated?
To say a Pit Bull mixed with guard type breed is going to be prone to attack is pure speculation. Just because this person is an Animal Control Officer, doesn't make them an expert on genetics. I'm willing to bet that more times than not, it's environmental.
I've never apologized for anything when it comes to these dogs and I haven't seen it from anyone else. I certainly won't apologize for what another person allows their own dog to do. Please take the opportunity to take what this person has told you and to continue learning about the American Pit Bull Terrier and it's cousins, the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.
PS: Spay or Neuter your dog, no matter its breed. If you're out there Breeding Pit Bulls in this county, you're part of the problem.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by jbox:
First, I admit to being anti-Pit (I use the term loosely to mean Staffordshires, Pitbulls and Pit crosses) . I love most dogs, even some Pits, but as the DOGBITE guy says, a bad moment with a Pit can be a disaster. A bad Pomeranian is not likely to kill anyone (yes I know it happened to an infant, but isn't it kind of amazing that could even happen?)
What I am more interested in in reading people's opinions here is just how, well, opinionated we are. It is as though no matter what study, expert, or statistic is cited, someone always finds a way to cast doubt on it. We simply cannot be persuaded out of our beliefs, no matter how much contrary information is out there.
Anyhow, for me, I cast my vote against Pits, as though my opinion matters. I simply feel that there is no justification in taking any greater chances than necessary when adopting a dog. Yes, my Labrador could kill. My goofy Pointer could.
There are plenty of other chices of breeds in the world, why take a chance on a group of breeds that have been created for dog fighting, and that are packing a set of jaws meant for killing other dogs? Why deliberately pick a dog that is more dangerous, either by breeding and temperament, or simply by sheer biting power? Sorry, that just seems insane to me.
Paulswetdog, you have obviously not completely read any of the posts made by myself or any other "Pro Pit Bull" people here.
A Pit Bull was never bred to kill another dog. A Pit Bull does not have "locking jaws. And when it comes to the truth, opinion means nothing except to you and your friends and any other yahoo who has it out for the Pit Bull type dog. Read up on the history. I challenge you and every other person who is willing to actively seek the truth.
Your breed of choice, the Pointer scored an average of 89% passing grade according to the American Temperament Society.
The American Pit Bull Terrier scored an average of 86%, the American Staffordshire Terrier 83% and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier 89.6%. Not a bad comparison, eh? Granted this test is very extensive and it does not mean that dogs that fail the test are bad dogs (or breeds). some dogs are just plain fearful and that will get them a failing grade no matter the breed or type of dog.
I raised both of my children around Pit Bull type dogs and there was no greater bond between them. They get to meet and help care for the dogs I take in when they visit. I'd sooner trust my kids around a Pit Bull than my own mothers Toy Poodle. I don't like reading the paper or watching the evening news and see negative storys involving Pit Bulls anymore than you do. In fact, it angers me even more because there is some jackwagon who either can't, or refuses to handle and control his dog(s). I fell into this by accident. A dog in need was brought to my attention and she just happened to be a Pit Bull. Then came another, and another.
I take these dogs because I can give them a chance at a life they've never had. It's easy to talk bad and spew lies and hate, but until you've lived a day in my life, or that of any other rescuer or true lover of the Pit bull, you have no idea. You have absolutely no idea of what you're talking about.
Another challenge for you. Meet the dog who was taken from a dog fighter. Meet her and then tell me how bad she is because someone abused her and thrust her into a fight, and when she wouldn't, she was going to end up as a Bait Dog because she wouldn't fight back. Take a really good look at her and get the chance know who she is before you judge her on what she is.
But the bottom line is, she doesn't know you hate her. She is one of thousands upon thousands abused daily and she is an individual. Though you are entitled to your opinion, you're still wrong.
I tried the link and got this:"Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wildflower:
Page Not Found
We're sorry, the page you are looking for can not be found or has moved."
try this link
https://www.fortheloveofpits.org/In%...%20Beastly.htm
So pit bulls are just misunderstood and have no more propensity to attack other dogs or people than any other breed and its all the fault of jackwagon owners? Is this the truth, Patrick? Even an apologist like you knows the truth if you have the courage to admit it to yourself. Enough spin, OK?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Patrick:
What is the truth Jbox? Do you know it because you spoke to an animal control officer who agrees with you? I spoke to my vet who believes the opposite. Obviously Patrick has extensive experience with pits and has actually done the research, as opposed to having a short conversation with an animal control officer and then claiming to have the truth. I prefer to read scientific articles and talk to people who have done the same. I adopted a pit on accident. I didn't even know she was one, and yet I've had her for years without a single problem. That, however, is not scientific, only an observation, and I believe that for the sake of claiming to have "truth" things should be a little more scientific.
Exactly. Again, I've never apologized for anything regarding these great dogs. Show me the spin. Show me where I'm wrong. Wait, you can't, because I'm right. Enough of the rhetoric, OK? I'm sure you're the type of person who thinks all non whites are lazy and prone to criminal behavior. Your postings smack of bigotry. Ignorance is bliss, jbox, but it's not an excuse.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by jbox:
To Jbox, wetdog and the other morons. I suppose these puppies had it coming in your "opinion?"
https://petaluma360.com/article/20101206/NEWS/101209678
My opinion is that the cop should have stuck to his firearm and filled this scumbag full of lead.
Patrick,
If you want to have a discussion, how about knocking off the name-calling? I never called you a moron or bigot, so WTF gives you the right to do that to me?
All I can think to say is that you are proving my conviction that Pit-types are a menace, partly because of their genetics and physique, but mostly because of the type of people who keep them.
I've proved you to be nothing more than uninformed. And I didn't realize you were an expert in genetics. Big Smile
What type of person owns a Pit Bull? I do.
and... https://www.cesarsway.com/node/967
Patrick, name calling violates our guideline to treat all members with respect. Please be more considerate. :waccosun:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Patrick:
Well, we all know what side Barry is on. That was a little petty.
It is what it is. However, I am happy to debate anyone on the subject, including Barry.
I am relentless and unapologetic when it comes to what I say and do working with these great dogs we call Pit Bull. I've seen far too much and been involved far to long to backpedal. The hardest part is dealing with people armed with lies and misleading information and all I have is the truth. :wink:
I really feel the same way as patrick.....and to add....when people feel and believe strongly about something, it's worth finding & researching information to support the facts, we are not just impassioned but pretty right on with facts and info to support our position simply BECAUSE we did the homework....this argument that's been going on for our pits comes from not just a heartfelt love of these dogs but from educating and understanding the myths and truths about their breed. Dogs can be complex if you really take the time to appreciate them. Just as humans deserve the grace, respect we expect from each other, I accord my animals the same. I have more respect sometimes for my animals than some folks I have met....sorry to say, but true....to just decide that ALL pits are bad is ignorant and obviously it will be difficult to change that point of view no matter HOW much information and facts are presented... when I refused (at first) to allow my son's dog into our home, it was because I thought I KNEW about them, even though I had met some pretty nice pits before this, I just ASSUMED they were not to be trusted. In time I was proved wrong...and I'm grateful for the lesson........thank you
beshiva, thank you for that reply. I know there are many others like you who have not only opened their mind, but have opened their heart and home to a great dog. My family was a bit taken back when I adopted Bean, but once they saw what a great girl she was and when I started taking in more for rehabilitation, they accepted what I do and at least have a better understanding. I've had as many as six living under the same roof. And if you want to save on those winter heating bills, curl up with a Pit Bull. :wink:
Sorry Everyone...This post is OLD and the link is no longer valid. If you search for the article, you can probably find it elsewhere!
Thanks!
wildflower
huh? apparently NOT!Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wildflower: