by Stephen Dinan founder of the Shift Network
Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
by Stephen Dinan founder of the Shift Network
Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
by Stephen Dinan founder of the Shift Network
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
"Note: The purpose of this article is not to speak to those who are spreading Bill Gates-is-the-Antichrist or the coronavirus-is-a-hoax memes..."
I'd like to clarify my own position on Bill Gates, because I didn't arrive at it through any "memes". As I have said, I came upon this Corona-virus Crisis (for me it started on February 7) with an open and an empty mind - a Zen mind. In the course of doing research on Bill Gates, I have come across some amazing things. For instance: Bill Gates lll is a direct descendant of Charlemagne, Alfred the Great, Robert the First of France, and William the Conqueror. That's quite a pedigree. Talk about blue blood.
I have never had anything personal against Bill Gates - until Now. I was aware, years go that the Hollywood send-up of him as the self-made whiz kid in the Movie, “PIRATES OF SILICON VALLEY” was just that; Hollywood hype. I was also aware that he did not get the sweetheart deal to write Basic for IBM on account of his "natural brilliance" - but because of his family connections. But none of that was personal. It was just data.
I was also aware that the Gates Family was one of “America’s Sixty Families” ( as per the book by Ferdinand Lundberg.) And, yes, William Henry Gates, the Third is related to Frederick Taylor Gates, the lieutenant of John D. Rockefeller I - for both were/are related to General Horatio Gates of the Revolutionary War.
I was not aware of what Bill Gates has been doing for the last ten years - promoting vaccinations as a way of life & steadily buying up as much of the Media & the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex as he could. Now it has become personal. There is no way I am going to submit to a bloody mandatory vaccine. Neither will I submit to being micro-chipped by Microsoft Corp & the World Bank.
It is evident now that Bill Gates is the front man of the plutocracy* in their end game against Humanity – [the wogs, that is] - the lower echelons of society around the Globe, whom they intend to vaccinate, micro-chip, genetically alter &/Or "cull" in order to bring about their “sustainable” number of five hundred million humans on planet earth. It is the final conflict, and the plutes have taken the offênse à oûtrance..
Far from being the warm, fuzzy Mr. Rogers look & sound-alike he has been re-invented & packaged to appear to be, William Gates III is, in truth, more like Dr. Mengele.
* Specifically, he is the front-man for the billionaires' Men's Club known as the World Economic Forum.
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
"So my real audience is well-intended people who are doing our best to keep our loosely-defined human potential movement on an evolutionary path forward to be of greater service to humankind..:
Well that sounds warm and fuzzy. '...Well intended people doing their best in a loosely-defined human potential movement on an evolutionary path forward, to be of greater service for humankind...' Who can argue with that? -And- who would want to stray from the Path to depart from a Cause like that ?
But wait ! -What if the "loosely defined human potential movement" was in reality a big psy-op ? What if many of the movers and shakers in the Movement were in reality, Intelligence agents? And what if the "Movement" didn't just start up spontaneously in the 60's and 70's, but was a well-organized Movement that had been in existence - while the baby had been in gestation - for close to one hundred years at the time of the Summer of Love? -A Movement following a Plan that began in a very specific Cult way back in 1875 ?
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
“Underneath any outrage on the surface, you may feel a deep dismay and, if you’re honest, a bit of genuine questioning of what it is in our collective movement that made such a large percentage of people susceptible to this descent into rather extreme positions, what some are calling “conspirituality” as the confluence of extreme conspiracy ideas and spirituality…”
Interesting. A “large percentage" of New Agers are 'descending' – Stephen Dinan does not say how many. But evidently, from the standpoint of "New Age Shepherds” like Stephen Dinan, these folks have left the proper, right-thinkful “New Age” fold.
Momentous Events – such as the Corona-virus Crisis - often have this effect: of effecting Sea-Changes in Consciousness, and forcing folks into novel thought-patterns and new alignments; in creating schisms, and realignments in established Movements. –And the “New Age” is a Movement.
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness :
"When we share facts with these folks, we are often dismissed as simply parroting the “discredited mainstream narrative.” We have not yet “woken up” to the reality that there is a small cabal of people who are orchestrating virtually everything in the service of our enslavement. "
Perhaps the feeling is mutual, this feeling of frustration. For my part, try as I may, I find that a certain percentage of you new agers & west county alternative life-stylers simply will not listen to logic, reason, =or= facts.
One fact that y’all seen to be oblivious of is that there is something that historically has been termed “the class war”. –And that it is still going on, Denny. It isn’t something that ended when the cold war ended and the Berlin Wall came down...
The reality of the class war is something that you can take home with you. It is a fact of life.
Here, in Stephen Dinan, we have a self-described “New Age CEO” slurring the issue and representing the ruling class as a [presumably non-existent & imaginary] “small cabal of people” - as if two centuries of social science never existed at all, and can be dismissed magically, with the wave of a wand. Talk about “magical thinking.”
It is also very much a matter of fact that Six Mega-corporations currently have come to own the “mainstream media” – and that these mega-corporations also have interlocking directorates with the Pharmaceutical Industrial Complex. Just the facts.
None of this is secret – or esoteric. And furthermore it is a fact that when the World Economic Forum met in Davos Switzerland in mid- January of this year, they already had a website up and running dedicated to hastening “Global Governance” on the wings of the “Crown Virus” – a website that was two hundred {200} layers deep.
The fact that all you good-thinkful folks can ignore the deeper implications of these facts is nothing short of amazing to this one ( i ).
Dear spiritual friends,
A few important talking points by Jason Hine:
Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for.
https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pngSpiritual people are particularly susceptible to this because they are perceived as high on empathy and low on boundaries and therefore seen as easy to turn or manipulate.
https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pngAn effective way to defeat one's opponent is to get them to chase after imaginary enemies in order to weaken them, confuse them, control them and cover up one's really existing nefarious behaviour.
It's an old strategy: Machiavelli and Sun Tzu describe it, its used by abusers everywhere to get their victims to trauma bond with them, and some intelligence agencies round the world are trained in such techniques.
The overton window has shifted to the right over the last thirty years or so, so folks mistake centrists for leftists and the far right for the moderate right. Of course the far right's strategy has been to encourage and capitalise on that shift in the overton window.
https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pngPeople who are disenchanted with the political center, disenchanted with "identity politics" and disenchanted with capitalism or neoliberalism would in the past have gravitated to the moderate left, far left or center right, but these days the far right have extensive recruitment and disinformation campaigns to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism towards fascism.
Part of the fascist strategy is to misguide people into thinking the centrist neoliberal policies that trouble them are leftist policies.The far right then pretend to be rebels against capitalism, whilst in fact standing for an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism.
Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time.
https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pngThe fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."
The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.
https://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pnghttps://static.xx.fbcdn.net/images/e...2/16/1f449.pngAlso, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles.
Just to begin, the "deep state" was first coined and used by Peter Dale Scott, hardly 'far right':
Peter Dale Scott (born 11 January 1929)[1] is a Canadian-born poet, academic, and former diplomat.
A son of the Canadian poet and constitutional lawyer F. R. Scott and painter Marian Dale Scott, he is best known for his critiques of deep politics and American foreign policy since the era of the Vietnam War. Although trained as a political scientist, Scott holds an atypical academic appointment as a poet-scholar in an English department.
After receiving undergraduate degrees in philosophy (first-class honours) and political science (second-class honours) from McGill University in 1949, he studied at the Institut d'Etudes Politiques (France, 1949) and University College, Oxford (1950-1952) before receiving a Ph.D. in political science from McGill (with a dissertation on the social and political philosophy of T.S. Eliot) in 1955. He briefly taught in McGill's political science department and spent four years (1957–1961) with the Canadian diplomatic service before joining the speech department of the University of California, Berkeley as a lecturer in 1961. He was subsequently promoted to assistant professor of speech (1962), associate professor of English (1968), and professor of English (1980); since his nominal retirement in 1994, he has served as professor emeritus of English.[2][3]
Notably, he was a signatory in 1968 of the "Writers and Editors War Tax Protest" pledge, in which participants vowed to refuse tax payments in protest against the Vietnam War.[4]
He has written a book on the topic:
https://www.amazon.com/American-Deep-State-Democracy-Library/dp/1442214244
To not recognize that the deep state exists is not to be invulnerable to it, on the contrary.
RE: "Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time."
AI Algorithms have not been around for a long time, so... huh?
Also wondering: ..."fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers"
WHO are these, exactly?
And just who might Jason Hine be? A search does not reveal anyone conclusive.
I would imagine we might have more conclusions in common than it seems here; if so, clearly need to weed through much to get there.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:
Jason Hine is quite mistaken about the etiology of the term, "Deep State", Larry. Although, since 2016 the term has been co-opted by the "right" - most notably by Jerome Corsi, who has gotten a lot of exposure & airtime on "Coast-to-Coast" & other Bircher type "Right-wing CIA" disinformation fronts. It has become, of course, a stock phrase in the "Q"-Cult - those naive red state followers of Donald Trump who mistakenly believe that he is valiantly fighting the good fight.
From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott on VoltaireNet:
VoltaireNet: Professor Scott, as your work is not as widely known as it ought to be in French-speaking countries, could you please start by defining what “Deep politics” is, and explain the distinction between what you call the “Deep state” and the “Public state”?
Peter Dale Scott: The term “Deep state” comes from Turkey. They invented it after the wreck of a speeding Mercedes in 1996 in which the passengers were a Member of Parliament, a beauty queen, a local senior police captain, and an important drug trafficker in Turkey who was also the head of a criminal paramilitary organization – the Grey Wolves – that went around killing people. And it became very obvious in Turkey that there were a covert relationship between the police who officially were looking for this man – even though a policeman was there with him in the car – and these people who committed crimes on behalf of the state. The state that you commit crimes for is not a state that can show its hand to the people, it’s a hidden state, a covert structure. In Turkey, they called it the Deep state, [1] and I had been talking about deep politics for a long time so I used the term in The Road to 9/11. This is why I have defined deep politics as all those political practices and arrangements, deliberate or not, which are usually repressed rather than acknowledged. So the term “Deep state” – coming from Turkey – is not mine.
It refers to a parallel secret government, organized by the intelligence and security apparatus, financed by drugs, and engaging in illicit violence, to protect the status and interests of the military against threats from intellectuals, religious groups, and occasionally the constitutional government. In this book, I adapt the term somewhat to refer to the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government. You might call it the back door of the Public state, giving access to dark forces outside the law. The analogy with Turkey is not perfect, because what we see today in America is less a parallel structure than a wide zone or milieu of interaction between the public state and unseen dark forces, as I expound in my latest book The American War Machine. But this interaction is significant, and we need a name, such as Deep state, to describe it."
[ CONTINUES... ]I tried to get Peter Dale Scott to do a book reading of the second, revised edition of this book at Copperfield's in Sebastopol last year, but unfortunately, was not able to pull that off. I am certain that several of our west county intellectuals could have derived benefit from his lecture, since in the revised edition of the book, he dealt with the recent phenomenon of how the term "Deep State" has been co-opted... Here is the book:
The American Deep State: Big Money, Big Oil, and the Struggle for U.S. Democracy (War and Peace Library) Updated Edition
Here is his website : https://www.peterdalescott.net/
Here is his facebook page.
You may be sure that Peter Dale Scott is not a "right-winger."
"Jason Hine" sure got that right. The "overton window" has moved...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Jason Hine:
Still, I question the geometry of the conventional model of the so-called "political spectrum" that commonly & colloquially employs the stock terms "left" & right." Something else is going on. We dwell after all, in a Reality in which there are more than four dimensions. A line-segment is only a one-dimensional geometric figure. I have tried to address this anomaly in another thread on WaccoBB. And this is (a portion of) what I just wrote over there:
I suggest to y'all that when Jason Hine speaks of "the far right" that he has no idea of what he is talking about. Because the "far right" are not the Power Elite or the "One Percent" [ 1% ]. Not at all. The Power Elite are "Centrists" - from the Center that is Above the whole shooting match {see pic.}Quote:
...The "Political Spectrum" is, in Reality, shaped more like a Mobius Strip; a Pretzel - or the bloody Roller Coaster at Coney Island - than the common misconception of the damned thing as a line-segment. And Everyone should be seriously aware that the opinions that are posted as 'facts' at disinformation sites like "Snopes" & "Media Bias / Fact Check" come straight down the Elevator Shaft from ye olde 39th Floor of the Rockefeller Center. They don't call it "The Center" for nothing, you know...
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/attac...0&d=1589155734
[ Image taken from “Media Bias / Fact Check” ]
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-fake-news-codex/
The so-called "far right" are trailer park eedjit white folks who read disinformation about the ruling class - and just about everything else - disinformation that is churned out by the disinformation channels that are coordinated from the Think Tanks {see pic} of the Rockefeller "Center", the Puzzle Palace, and Langley, Virginia. Get a Clue, kids.
But the Power Elite are certainly not authentic old-school American Liberals. They are so far beyond Ideology that they have financed Bolshevism, Nazism, and the soft Fascism of the "New Deal." The only Ideology that they consistently adhere to is their insatiable Quest for more power and more profits.
From the Center that is above the Demo / Repub ground floor Center, the Power Elite control the dialectic and play off the so-called "Left" against the so-called "Right". This they do continually, and on a whole lot of levels. It is called "Divide & Rule" - the Old Roman Axiom that you've all heard about. The reason why I employed the symbol of the "All-Seeing Eye" to depict the summit of power is because it is a Symbol 1* that they themselves are fond of. 2 *
Larry Robinson, Poet Laureate of WaccoBb, Greetings
I have been posting on this thread - the one that you started. Care to comment on anything that I have written here thus far? Just wondering... If not, I shall continue to make further commentary on the material that you have already placed here before us. There is a lot of material here already - and it is a big field.
=ALSO =
Judith Iam made some legitimate points, and asked you some serious questions, which i think you really ought to *answer - that is, if you are seriously interested in conversing with us darkies down here in the Ninth Ward. To wit:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:
So Who is this "Jason Hine", Larry ? Care to share a link with us ?
Well. So far, Larry Robinson, wordsmith, poet, has not seen fit to dabble in a little prose and respond to my request that we dialog about these "taking points" that he has set before us - or let us know who the illustrious "Jason Hine" might Be. No matter.
I shall continue with my dissection of all of the ontological and philological errors in this tidy little missive that Larry has attributed to Jason Hine, since it is what is currently on the plate. And, after I am done with Jason, I shall return to my critique of the errors in the missive of the more verifiable Stephen Dinan.
In the first place, I find it fascinating that Jason -whoever he may be- uses the phrase "the imaginary "deep state"' two times in a missive that is only four hundred and ninety-two (492) words long.
"Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for."
"The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."
I wish to return to this point, because as Jude Iam and I have both noted already, the political scientist who first began the use of the term, "deep state" in the United States and applied it to Amerikan politics, was Peter Dale Scott of Berkeley, with whom I am 'facebook friends'. My late uncle, Walter Liggett (née William Wallace Liggett), "Haiku Master of Berkeley" was an actual friend of his, as was my late friend Brad Cleveland, who also lived at Redwood Gardens at the head of Derby Street, not far from the Claremont Hotel, in the neighborhood of Peter Dale Scott.
Here follows a segment of an interview of Peter Dale Scott in Tikkun Magazine in July of 2017 in which he deals with the issue of the "deep state" in the present - after the use of the term had been co-opted by Breitbart, Steve Bannon, and the people around Donald Trump:
***
Tikkun: Please tell our readers more about the deep state.
PETER: Well, let’s start with three Beltway agencies that are principal in it: the NSA who probably overheard all the conversations that are at stake here, the CIA which has got a long history of manipulating press leaks, and the FBI who are in charge of the Russiagate investigation. But I want to think on a larger level. I already mentioned that the media play a role in the deep state. What I’m now calling the “deep state media” includes the New York Times, the Washington Post and close behind them the LA Times and The Wall Street Journal. I’ve defined the deep state as “the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government.” In other words, the deep state is the sum of all the forces who are not authorized by the Constitution to exercise political power, and therefore are in the role of playing a significant but unauthorized political role, often in secret.
Tikkun: In your understanding, is the Pentagon part of your definition of the deep state or or not?
PETER: The Pentagon is not an independent player in the way it was under JFK and JBJ. In those days, backed by a powerful military-industrial complex, the Joint Chiefs resented and frequently challenged White House limitations on their actions. Today what the Pentagon does in a regular way has been brought more under civilian control.But the military component of the U.S. economy and budget has grown and the old civilian component has withered. An increasing role is now played by hi-tech industries which are harder to define on this spectrum. This has created a new militarized economy in which hawks are found everywhere.
I argue in The American Deep State that 9/11 empowered Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their lobby PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) to implement their expansionist policies into Afghanistan and Iraq, with a momentum that Clinton and the Dems have since sustained in Libya and Syria. But the Pentagon didn’t provide the impetus here; in fact Rumsfeld and Cheney had to clear out of the way a reluctant General Shelton, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Pressure was coming more from the oil industry (including Cheney’s old company Halliburton) who had their eyes set on creating a US military presence to overshadow and protect U.S. oil developments in Central Asia.
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in turn promoted a lot of hawkish generals like Petraeus who pressured a reluctant Obama for the meaningless Afghanistan surge. And then in turn, Generals Mattis and Flynn, two of the hawk generals Obama had disagreements with and let go (they had wanted more U.S. military pressure on Iran) , were picked up by Trump. So hawks and doves have been switching sides on the Pentagon/White House seesaw..Meanwhile the Pentagon expansionist hawks have been making use of a Pentagon element called JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command, for dirty CIA-like covert operations in other countries,
Tikkun: Is there a set of interests that this deep state has that runs in a different direction than what our elected officials want.
PETER: Yes, but I want to say more clearly than I did in the first edition of my book, The American Deep State, that there are competing elements in the deep state. I’m not saying that there’s some s kind of secret team that in charge of everything, As I say in my book, the deep state “is not a structure but a system, as difficult to define, but also as real and powerful, as a weather system.” A vigorous deep state, like America’s, encompasses dynamic processes continuously generating new forces within it like the Internet — just as a weather system is not fixed but changes from day to day.
Tikkun: Are our major corporations part of what you are calling the deep state?
PETER: Well some corporations are, yes. The big oil companies are even in the subtitle of my book (Big Oil), because they conduct their own foreign policy. This fact is almost never written up, so you have to go to very specialized sources to find out what’s going on. But they have a very intimate relation with the CIA, often via the CIA’s “cleared contractor” firms like Booz Allen Hamilton. And you can’t mention these corporations without mentioning the financial interests involved in them. It was relatively simple back in the ‘50s, when the Rockefellers were Big Oil, and they also controlled the Chase Manhattan Bank and the Council on Foreign Relations; and these interests all had a very close connection with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. And Solomon and Cromwell partners John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles were Secretary of State and head of CIA….
The easiest way to see what’s happening now is to remember how much clearer the deep state was back in the 50s. The concept of a deep state is vital, and even the people who are using the term don’t understand how really relevant the deep state is in this, because of what is being left out. The debate is being carried on in the big media as if the media were not part of the deep state, but they are. And what’s being left out altogether is the role of billionaires, and believe me that is very relevant here. The media are talking about Beltway agencies and too many people are only talking about them. Why aren’t more people talking about Robert Mercer or the Koch brothers or Karl Icahn? These men have been restructuring US politics, because they all have a stake in shrinking the government and getting rid of regulations. And this squabble is fine for them. No matter who wins between Trump and the Beltway agencies, the billionaires are likely to come out even more powerful and unregulated.
Tikkun: But it does matter which side wins. The Trump Administration has been systematically going forward in its goal of dramatically shrinking government while most of the forces that you’ve identified as “the deep state” oppose this direction. And that shrinking will hit the poor and middle income Americans hardest. That is morally outrageous.
PETER: We have to recognize there are two factions of the billionaires. You also have the people like Bill Gates the head of Microsoft (the richest of all) who are in favor of regulation and whose businesses do better in a well-regulated society.
Tikkun: That’s why it’s difficult to say that “the deep state is a useful category when it turns out that deep state is on both sides of this issue.
PETER: Well the deep state isn’t a way of solving a mystery. The deep state is a way of keeping our minds enlarged to think of the big picture here. And now there is a great deal of money involved in politics on both sides, a lot of it from super-billionaires making a political investment for profit. They dominate as never before: by 2007 the top one percent in America owned 35 percent of America’s total wealth.This means that traditional politics have changed. The money used to be channeled through the political parties; but now both of them have significantly lost influence because their funding is no longer so dominant.
The Republican Party in particular has lost control over its primaries because they are being outbid by people like the Koch brothers and Robert Mercer who detest the party establishment.The fund controlled by the Koch brothers announced in 2015 that it would spend $889 million leading up to the 2016 campaign — more than double the nearly $400 million the Republican National Committee spent on the 2012 election. And Mercer in particular, whose firm was once investigated for tax evasion, gave over $22 million to right-wing candidates and PACs in the last campaign Mercer was also backing Bannon and Breitbart. These billionaires are restructuring the way in which politics is played. It’s almost as if they have rebuilt a new stage for American politics, on which Trump and the quote deep state that they talk about in the papers are just actors.
A Short Summary of what Peter Dale Scott
Said about the "Deep State" in Interviews
From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott on VoltaireNet:
VoltaireNet: Professor Scott, as your work is not as widely known as it ought to be in French-speaking countries, could you please start by defining what “Deep politics” is, and explain the distinction between what you call the “Deep state” and the “Public state”?
Peter Dale Scott: The term “Deep state” comes from Turkey. They invented it after the wreck of a speeding Mercedes in 1996 in which the passengers were a Member of Parliament, a beauty queen, a local senior police captain, and an important drug trafficker in Turkey who was also the head of a criminal paramilitary organization – the Grey Wolves – that went around killing people. And it became very obvious in Turkey that there were a covert relationship between the police who officially were looking for this man – even though a policeman was there with him in the car – and these people who committed crimes on behalf of the state. The state that you commit crimes for is not a state that can show its hand to the people, it’s a hidden state, a covert structure. In Turkey, they called it the Deep state, [1] and I had been talking about deep politics for a long time so I used the term in The Road to 9/11. This is why I have defined deep politics as all those political practices and arrangements, deliberate or not, which are usually repressed rather than acknowledged. So the term “Deep state” – coming from Turkey – is not mine.
It refers to a parallel secret government, organized by the intelligence and security apparatus, financed by drugs, and engaging in illicit violence, to protect the status and interests of the military against threats from intellectuals, religious groups, and occasionally the constitutional government. In this book, I adapt the term somewhat to refer to the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government. You might call it the back door of the Public state, giving access to dark forces outside the law. The analogy with Turkey is not perfect, because what we see today in America is less a parallel structure than a wide zone or milieu of interaction between the public state and unseen dark forces, as I expound in my latest book The American War Machine. But this interaction is significant, and we need a name, such as Deep state, to describe it."
From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott in Tikkun Magazine in July of 2017Tikkun: Please tell our readers more about the deep state.
PETER: Well, let’s start with three Beltway agencies that are principal in it: the NSA who probably overheard all the conversations that are at stake here, the CIA which has got a long history of manipulating press leaks, and the FBI who are in charge of the Russiagate investigation. But I want to think on a larger level. I already mentioned that the media play a role in the deep state. What I’m now calling the “deep state media” includes the New York Times, the Washington Post and close behind them the LA Times and The Wall Street Journal. I’ve defined the deep state as “the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government.” In other words, the deep state is the sum of all the forces who are not authorized by the Constitution to exercise political power, and therefore are in the role of playing a significant but unauthorized political role, often in secret.
Tikkun: In your understanding, is the Pentagon part of your definition of the deep state or or not?
PETER: The Pentagon is not an independent player in the way it was under JFK and JBJ. In those days, backed by a powerful military-industrial complex, the Joint Chiefs resented and frequently challenged White House limitations on their actions. Today what the Pentagon does in a regular way has been brought more under civilian control.But the military component of the U.S. economy and budget has grown and the old civilian component has withered. An increasing role is now played by hi-tech industries which are harder to define on this spectrum. This has created a new militarized economy in which hawks are found everywhere.
I argue in The American Deep State that 9/11 empowered Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their lobby PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) to implement their expansionist policies into Afghanistan and Iraq, with a momentum that Clinton and the Dems have since sustained in Libya and Syria. But the Pentagon didn’t provide the impetus here; in fact Rumsfeld and Cheney had to clear out of the way a reluctant General Shelton, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Pressure was coming more from the oil industry (including Cheney’s old company Halliburton) who had their eyes set on creating a US military presence to overshadow and protect U.S. oil developments in Central Asia.
Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld in turn promoted a lot of hawkish generals like Petraeus who pressured a reluctant Obama for the meaningless Afghanistan surge. And then in turn, Generals Mattis and Flynn, two of the hawk generals Obama had disagreements with and let go (they had wanted more U.S. military pressure on Iran) , were picked up by Trump. So hawks and doves have been switching sides on the Pentagon/White House seesaw..Meanwhile the Pentagon expansionist hawks have been making use of a Pentagon element called JSOC, the Joint Special Operations Command, for dirty CIA-like covert operations in other countries,
Tikkun: Is there a set of interests that this deep state has that runs in a different direction than what our elected officials want.
PETER: Yes, but I want to say more clearly than I did in the first edition of my book, The American Deep State, that there are competing elements in the deep state. I’m not saying that there’s some s kind of secret team that in charge of everything, As I say in my book, the deep state “is not a structure but a system, as difficult to define, but also as real and powerful, as a weather system.” A vigorous deep state, like America’s, encompasses dynamic processes continuously generating new forces within it like the Internet — just as a weather system is not fixed but changes from day to day.
Tikkun: Are our major corporations part of what you are calling the deep state?
PETER: Well some corporations are, yes. The big oil companies are even in the subtitle of my book (Big Oil), because they conduct their own foreign policy. This fact is almost never written up, so you have to go to very specialized sources to find out what’s going on. But they have a very intimate relation with the CIA, often via the CIA’s “cleared contractor” firms like Booz Allen Hamilton. And you can’t mention these corporations without mentioning the financial interests involved in them. It was relatively simple back in the ‘50s, when the Rockefellers were Big Oil, and they also controlled the Chase Manhattan Bank and the Council on Foreign Relations; and these interests all had a very close connection with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. And Solomon and Cromwell partners John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles were Secretary of State and head of CIA….
The easiest way to see what’s happening now is to remember how much clearer the deep state was back in the 50s.The concept of a deep state is vital, and even the people who are using the term don’t understand how really relevant the deep state is in this, because of what is being left out. The debate is being carried on in the big media as if the media were not part of the deep state, but they are. And what’s being left out altogether is the role of billionaires, and believe me that is very relevant here. The media are talking about Beltway agencies and too many people are only talking about them. Why aren’t more people talking about Robert Mercer or the Koch brothers or Karl Icahn? These men have been restructuring US politics, because they all have a stake in shrinking the government and getting rid of regulations. And this squabble is fine for them. No matter who wins between Trump and the Beltway agencies, the billionaires are likely to come out even more powerful and unregulated...
[ CONTINUES... ]
"Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon, and conspiracy theories about the imaginary "deep state" are cooked up by the far right and weaponized to distract attention from really-existing geopolitical strategic game playing and really-existing empire building on the part of fascists: that is part of the purpose these conspiracy theories are designed for..."
Stepping back one square to the first clause, "Fictional conspiracy theories such as Qanon," I'd like to address the issue of "Qanon". I have already stated my own position on the Cult of "Q" in this forum, last year, on another thread. As I wrote there:
"I don't follow leaders and I have an eye & a nose for psy-ops - and this is one - perhaps the most sophisticated psychological operation that ever came down the pike. That is my opinion."
In other words, the Q-Cult is a "Psychological Operation" - a disinformation channel that originated in the bowels of the National Security Agency, the "puzzle palace" in Maryland. There is epistemological evidence of this in their own documents. To wit:
Quote:
FOLLOW "Q"
There are many others you can find too. Don't be a sheep. They want you divided. They have been working to divide us forever. It's time to wake up and experience true freedom instead of the fake kind we have been living under.
The good people of America, Left and Right, Democrat and Republican, White or of color, young and old, are witnessing the take-back of America from a large number of very powerful criminals who have been destroying society and the world for several decades, maybe longer. This is the greatest story of our time.
You have the choice of either scratching your head in confusion when seeing events unfold, or looking at the information provided by Q to understand the real story. These are people I trust to bring you the right information.
The good guys, with control over the NSA, began the Q intelligence dissemination program to invoke an online grassroots movement that came to be called "The Great Awakening". It started on underground internet channels, then moved to the mainstream.
[ Source ]
That being said, I must re-iterate a fact concerning the terrain of "deep politics" : No political party -or- political position with any visible seat & presence on the so-called "political spectrum" can hold positions or dialectical doctrines that are completely false or "fictional"
"Disinformation" just doesn't work that way. =And= In order for "disinformation"that originates in the bowels of the N.S.A. to have any traction among the masses in the Red states, that disinformation must, of necessity, contain a high percentage of that which is real & true. The "true facts" {"factoids" was a word that the late Anita Hoffman favored } in the mix are the bait for the rat-poison & erratic disinformation.
I think the real danger in the thinking that is promoted here by Jason Hines is the chauvinistic assurance to his targeted audience that they alone are politically correct and that the enemy - designated as the so-called "far right" - are 100% deluded, with no basis in reality for any of their doctrines or beliefs. This negation - which is part & parcel of the novel phenomenon of "cancel culture" - leads to serious gaps in the Comprehension of those that follow suit...
The Bottom Line Is: It's All About Divide & Rule
As I wrote, in a tiny left-wing bi-monthly produced out in Occidental back in the 1990’s:
“…the Power Elite in America have set up tax-exempt foundations to facilitate the coordination of Left / Right activities, in order to implement the greater dialectical (or thesetical) process and move history in the direction.. [favored by] …the corporate interests of the ruling class.
The tax-exempt foundations dispense their ill-gotten capitalist largesse (much of which derives from interest collected from the national debt, as well as currency speculation, and various other surplus-value scams) all along the political spectrum - to left, right and center, as well as to the foggy bottom of the political underworld, the "fringes" of Left and Right.
Although the power elite transcend the political spectrum and are seldom visible in the political arena… their fingerprints are all over the whole thing, and their bag-men and liaisons are in almost every camp of any size.
Beneath the tax-exempt foundations, …think tanks… target various segments of the political spectrum and serve as transmission-belts for implementing policy directives.
These think tanks formulate the unique language (dialectics) tailored to suit and influence the thinking of the various targeted strata across the political spectrum… Various sectors of the Spectrum are apportioned various Analyses, each of which contains a core element of historical truth, (lending it a certain validity) as well as current Ideological & Economically derived applications.
These various Ideologies all contain elements that are seemingly antithetical to the "hands" held by other players. In the dialectical (thesetical) process, the [power elite] via the Foundations, set the various political formations in conflict, each holding a thesis or antithesis originating in the various think tanks.
In turn, the Syntheses that are hammered out by means of this process of orchestrated dialectical conflict, become, in turn, a new thesis, or antithesis, and thus the historical process is "shepherded" by the ruling class elite.
It is this constant enmity or political strife within the spectrum, which gives the whole thing its incredible dynamism, its electric drive. It is what makes the Mobius = Continuum turn. The various "stations" along the spectrum, are like seats on a Merry-go-Round: segregated, isolated, and locked into specific "party-spirit" consciousness.
Although this Dialectical Merry-go-round may be said to spin, in reality, the Geometry of the spectrum cannot be a circle. Rather, it is more on the order of a Mobius strip. It is not a circle, because it is twisted; possessing an intrinsic twistedness…” [ Source (on Archive.org) ]
In retrospect, I think that the Mobius-Continuum Model of the Political Spectrum can best be likened to the Roller Coaster at Coney Island; loop de loop & all. It is a diversion - and, like Monday Night Football, it is merely 'bread & circuses' for the masses.
Larry Robinson, Poet Laureate,
Once Again, Greetings
You have set this missive before us as your "talking points" -And I see that you have received a lot of gratitude for it. Yet so far, you have refrained from 'talking' with me about them. So I ask you, if you could render a Yea or a Nay on a few points...
A. **When you prefaced your post with the dedication "Dear spiritual friends" were you subtly implying that there was a wolf at the door ? ( i.e., myself )
B. **Do you seriously think that the plutocrats who are the members of the World Economic Forum are only "imaginary enemies" to the working (& middle) classes ?
C. **Do you believe that this one, ( i ) am part of an "extensive recruitment and disinformation campaign" myself? *=OR= That my own particular purpose is "to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism*towards fascism." ?
D.** =OR perhaps, You think that this one ( i ) am a covert agent from "the far right" who 'pretends to be [a] rebel against capitalism' whilst in fact [this one ( i )] stand for "an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism." ? Is that what you truly believe, Larry Robinson? You may answer Yea or Nay.
E. **"The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West..." Do you truly believe that that sentence describes me, or my purpose in posting at WaccoBB ?
F. **Are you willing to see the psychological manipulation inherent in the phrase "... a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state." ? -Do you not see that this construct implies the casual acceptance of it's negation, by the author of the sentence ?? [: i.e. by subliminal implication, George Soros and Globalism are good, & the "deep state" as Jason Hines has averred -twice- is "imaginary" ?...
I have already established - at least I hope so - the reality of the so-called "deep state"
G. ** Is George Soros really such a beneficent, benevolent, innocent & jolly benefactor of the so-called [current,& kept] "left"?
H. ** Is "Globalism" really such a wonderful programme for our collective future?
I. ** Do you truly believe that my own personal "purpose" is to "divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe" ?
J. **Furthermore, Larry, Do you truly believe that it is my own personal agenda to "forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism." ? Again, you may either answer Yes or No.
K. *=OR= Perhaps you think that I, personally, am trying to "actively rebrand [myself] as [a] spiritual teacher or "new paradigm influencer." Is that it, Larry?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson:
Hey Barry. is it your plan to allow all this paranoid stuff to take up so much room on WACCO? Also personal attacks on Larry Robinson?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Paula:
1. this is a bulletin board, a place for public discussion
2. calling detailed historically accurate material "paranoid stuff" does not address it nor dismiss it
3. you are suggesting censorship of views contesting the mainstream narrative - book burning du jour
4. while this material has been challenged and repeated requests made for clarification as to the source, etc.
5. Larry has chosen to not respond - and not been maligned in the slightest. "personal attacks"? no, not.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
I've done what I can to segregate the "paranoid stuff" into this category (slyly named Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories) so people can easily turn it off and remove it from their digest or emails. See how here.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
I didn't notice "personal attacks" on Larry Robinson, though I can't say I read every word of Mayacaman/Mark's posts. Please reply privately or publicly to point out what I may have missed.
I would welcome Larry's comments about Mark's posts, either generally or categorically. :waccosun:
1- What I'm not quite clear on is what post, and or postings applefan was responding to... ...Re: It appears to me that there is no contextual connection between the link and what applefan asked Barry; IOW, the posting did not have enough defining information to make any sense of what applefan actually was trying to convey...
...Was applefan's posting meant to criticize the article the link goes to or somebody's response/s on this thread or about the core gist of the first post on thread, Re the linked article?:hmmm:
There is incomplete at best contextual information and in applefan's post to be able to reasonably know specifically what was being directed towards.
The question to Barry that applefan posed is more open to making assumptions regarding how to interpret the question in the 1st place before even being able to answer to it.
I think that if Barry has the time he would probably ask for more information or just simply say he's not into doing anything different than what he has been regarding this thread.
My understanding of how Barry operates, I would put my bet on the former rather than the latter.:waccosun:
UPDATE: As I thought. Barry posted before I was finished with this.:WaccoRays::thumbsup:
2- Re:
Agreed. However, just because somebody, (whoever), mentions and or posts multiple links to of "accurate material" does not necessarily in any way mean that the context regarding how the interpretation of the "accurate material" is being portrayed by the person's posting.Quote:
2. calling detailed historically accurate material "paranoid stuff" does not address it nor dismiss it
One can sort, reorder :juggle: and cherry-pick a virtually infinite amount of real bona fide peer-reviewed etc. "accurate information" and contextually misinterpret the "accurate information" by using the cherry-picked "facts"; whether intentional or not and opine with bias the 'chosen' misrepresentation on what it all means as if that interpretation is the one and only absolute unmitigable set of facts because the 'interpretation' given uses all 100%, (or close to it anyway), "accurate information" per se.
To be clear; there is an infinite number of ways to choose, rearrange, and cherry pick "accurate information" to form virtually any bias opinion imaginable.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:
I have updated applefan's post to include a quote of the post to which I'm guessing triggered her comments.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
Barry, thanks for saying that you are "guessing", which is why I said what I said about applefan's question to you.
Although you may have accurately 'guessed', there may be more to it or something else... ...Just 'guessing'.:wink:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Well. I am not aware of having made any “personal attacks on Larry Robinson” – though I do admit to using a bit of irony, and mild sarcasm in my last post on this thread. If Larry wishes to complain on his own behalf about anything I have already written - he may. As Barry said, “I would welcome Larry's comments about Mark's posts, either generally or categorically...” I second that motion.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
As far as Barry having already “done what [he could do] to segregate the "paranoid stuff" into this category (slyly named Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories)” - All I can say is he sure did.
And what, pray tell, determines what is a “coronavirus conspiracy theory” here @ WaccoBB ?The Answer to that Question seems to be “Whatever Barry says is a “coronavirus conspiracy theory” is a “conspiracy theory”… And so it goes…
The rest of the sheeple here nod and genuflect & signal their own virtue and innocence by expressing their gratitude in accordance with the party line.
In this manner, Dr. Luc Montagnier, the Nobel Laureate who mapped the genome of HIV; Dr. Francis Boyle, the lawyer who drafted the Bio-weapons Act of 1989; and Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., the nephew of slain president John Fitzgerald Kennedy and the son of slain presidential candidate, Robert F. Kennedy, have all been consigned to the Ninth Ward that Barry conveniently – and “slyly” - set up for us darkies.
If any of you wish to see if there may be any insidious digs against the former Green Councilman of Sebastopol and the Poet Laureate of WaccoBb lurking in the tall grass of the dense verbiage that I have posted thus far on this thread, you are all welcome to read what I have written – and try to ferret out any slights to his honor – if you can find them. I challenge you to try.
Re:
Yes; it sure is! Particularly when there is a vast amount of information given to parse and also particularly when there are many sources of the particular information that would have to be investigated.Quote:
true. It can be tough, though, to distinguish between editing and cherry-picking.
Sometimes it's intentional to use vast amounts of 'bias, (IOW 'cherry-picked') information to make it extremely difficult to argue point by point against something when there is so much data to sift and vet through, whereas at some point it becomes impossible for the common individual person to do...Which... ..Is a 'technique' aimed at sidetracking a strong 'opposition'. Particularly when one knows their 'argument' can not stand against a direct point by point argument at the crux of the actual issue....
...That being said; of course there are some individuals who are capable of going through large amounts of data, to vet and parse a vast amount of information, (it still takes time though; and there is a limit). Most people just either don't have the time and most aren't capable of sorting through vast amounts of information and maintaining the ability to create a cognitive point by point opposing argument when, (because) at some point there becomes a critical mass of information for any individual to be able to handle.... ...Even groups for that matter, that's why there are computers to crunch the numbers.
Re:
Cherry picking; definition:Quote:
Editing is necessary. Also, remember that cherry-picking is how you get cherry pie. Some people like it. I'm not a fan of cherry pie. I guess the distinction is whether you're making a full meal, where you want to use more of the ingredients, or just a tasty desert.
↑↑↑↑↑↑-Footnote: Also; colored, bold, some underlined and enlarged text for emphasis and is not like that from the ↑↑↑↑↑↑ source but no words, sentences, definitions or meanings have been otherwise changed in the above quote. I just 'cherry picked' what I wanted to emphasize:wink2:Big Smile.Quote:
(Source: Merriam-Webster),
cherry-pick | \ ˈcher-ē-ˌpik\
intransitive verb:
to select the best or most desirable.
transitive verb:
to select as being the best or most desirable also : to select the best or most desirable from
// cherry-picked the art collection.
Literal cherry picking can be a fun activity during harvest season. But using the best cherries make a more delicious pie.
To cherry-pick means to select the best or most desirable from a larger group (such as selecting from a list of facts only those that supports your argument).
:waccosun:Ultimately, what I'm trying to say is that just because somebody can remember and even quote a library's amount of information does not necessarily mean their opinion about something or another is going to be (the) 'correct' (one).:meditate:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
true. It can be tough, though, to distinguish between editing and cherry-picking. Editing is necessary. Also, remember that cherry-picking is how you get cherry pie. Some people like it. I'm not a fan of cherry pie. I guess the distinction is whether you're making a full meal, where you want to use more of the ingredients, or just a tasty desert.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
Mayacaman; Re; terminology: Do you think that someone that disagrees with your prognosis and 'pays' gratitude' to a post that challenges your opinion/s here are a “sheeple” person?......I am hoping and I am also 'guessing' that you mean that, (sheeple), in more of a literary meaning then a derogatory sense of the word.Quote:
The rest of the sheeple here nod and genuflect & signal their own virtue and innocence by expressing their gratitude in accordance with the party line.
Also, Mayacaman; that 'party line' part of the comment appears a bit like a dig, (in the noun meaning) to me.
Honestly, I don't take it personally even if it is directed at least in part at me, I am OK with it. Actually, it can be amusingly ironic to me when I think about it....:wink:
...Others, they can speak for themselves if they so choose.:waccosun:
Anyway, Just thought I should mention it because some of the people here on waccobb are hypersensitive to even tiny increments of what could be perceived as a 'derogatory' remark to them, an individual or a particular group/class of.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Quite right, Hotspring, old chap. I don't take any personal umbrage at being slighted when derogatory comments directed at me are given gratitude by others; and I mean no one any ill. In the ultimate reality, we are all sheep. And, when I employ the word "sheeple," it is meant in the proper "literary sense" - and by no means should be interpreted by anyone as either an insult or derogatory.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
I do confess to having a "literary quill" that has been sharpened by years of internet debate...
= * ONCE * AGAIN * =
Larry Robinson, Poet Laureate,
Once Again, Greetings
You have set this missive before us as your "talking points" -And I see that you have received a lot of gratitude for it. Yet so far, you have refrained from 'talking' with me about them. So I ask you, if you could render a Yea or a Nay on a few points...
A. **When you prefaced your post with the dedication "Dear spiritual friends" were you subtly implying that there was a wolf at the door ? ( i.e., myself )
B. **Do you seriously think that the plutocrats who are the members of the World Economic Forum are only "imaginary enemies" to the working (& middle) classes ?
C. **Do you believe that this one, ( i ) am part of an "extensive recruitment and disinformation campaign" myself? *=OR= That my own particular purpose is "to funnel those disenchanted with capitalism, centrism, identity politics or neoliberalism*towards fascism." ?
D.** =OR perhaps, You think that this one ( i ) am a covert agent from "the far right" who 'pretends to be [a] rebel against capitalism' whilst in fact [this one ( i )] stand for "an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism." ? Is that what you truly believe, Larry Robinson? You may answer Yea or Nay.
E. **"The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West..." Do you truly believe that that sentence describes me, or my purpose in posting at WaccoBB ?
F. **Are you willing to see the psychological manipulation inherent in the phrase "... a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state." ? -Do you not see that this construct implies the casual acceptance of it's negation, by the author of the sentence ?? [: i.e. by subliminal implication, George Soros and Globalism are good, & the "deep state" as Jason Hines has averred -twice- is "imaginary" ?...
I have already established - at least I hope so - the reality of the so-called "deep state"
G. ** Is George Soros really such a beneficent, benevolent, innocent & jolly benefactor of the so-called [current,& kept] "left"?
H. ** Is "Globalism" really such a wonderful programme for our collective future?
I. ** Do you truly believe that my own personal "purpose" is to "divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe" ?
J. **Furthermore, Larry, Do you truly believe that it is my own personal agenda to "forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism." ? Again, you may either answer Yes or No.
K. *=OR= Perhaps you think that I, personally, am trying to "actively rebrand [myself] as [a] spiritual teacher or "new paradigm influencer." Is that it, Larry?
= * Post * Script * =
Larry: Barry and I would Both welcome your literary input on this thread. If you can offer any analysis that addresses and counters any of the words that I have posted thus far on this thread, please do so. Otherwise, I shall continue with my analysis of the flaws in the short (492 word) missive by "Jason Hines" and when I am done with that task, I shall continue where I left off on critiquing the longer missive by the more verifiable Stephen Dinan.
https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
After doing a bit of research, I found the point at which the term "deep state" passed from the "academic left" of Peter Dale Scott and such, into the "right-wing" patriot / populist camp. Here - as far as I can tell - is the article that marked the cross-over:
For decades, extreme ideologies on both the left and the right have clashed over the conspiratorial concept of a shadowy secret government pulling the strings on the world’s heads of state and captains of industry.
The phrase New World Order is largely derided as a sophomoric conspiracy theory entertained by minds that lack the sophistication necessary to understand the nuances of geopolitics. But it turns out the core idea — one of deep and overarching collusion between Wall Street and government with a globalist agenda — is operational in what a number of insiders call the “Deep State.”
In the past couple of years, the term has gained traction across a wide swath of ideologies. Former Republican congressional aide Mike Lofgren says it is the nexus of Wall Street and the national security state — a relationship where elected and unelected figures join forces to consolidate power and serve vested interests. Calling it “the big story of our time,”Lofgren says the deep state represents the failure of our visible constitutional government and the cross-fertilization of corporatism with the globalist war on terror.
“It is a hybrid of national security and law enforcement agencies: the Department of Defense, the Department of State, the Department of Homeland Security, the Central Intelligence Agency and the Justice Department. I also include the Department of the Treasury because of its jurisdiction over financial flows, its enforcement of international sanctions and its organic symbiosis with Wall Street,” he explained.Even parts of the judiciary, namely the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, belong to the deep state.
How does the deep state operate?
A complex web of revolving doors between the military-industrial-complex, Wall Street, and Silicon Valley consolidates the interests of defense contracts, banksters, military actions, and both foreign and domestic surveillance intelligence.According to Mike Lofgren and many other insiders, this is not a conspiracy theory. The deep state hides in plain sight and goes far beyond the military-industrial complex President Dwight D. Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech over fifty years ago.
While most citizens are at least passively aware of the surveillance state and collusion between the government and the corporate heads of Wall Street, few people are aware of how much the intelligence functions of the government have been outsourced to privatized groups that are not subject to oversight or accountability. According to Lofgren, 70% of our intelligence budget goes to contractors.
Moreover, while Wall Street and the federal government suck money out of the economy, relegating tens of millions of people to food stamps and incarcerating more people than China — a totalitarian state with four times more people than us — the deep state has, since 9/11, built the equivalent of three Pentagons, a bloated state apparatus that keeps defense contractors, intelligence contractors, and privatized non-accountable citizens marching in stride.
After years of serving in Congress, Lofgren’s moment of truth regarding this matter came in 2001. He observed the government appropriating an enormous amount of money that was ostensibly meant to go to Afghanistan but instead went to the Persian Gulf region. This, he says, “disenchanted” him from the groupthink, which, he says, keeps all of Washington’s minions in lockstep.
Groupthink — an unconscious assimilation of the views of your superiors and peers — also works to keep Silicon Valley funneling technology and information into the federal surveillance state. Lofgren believes the NSA and CIA could not do what they do without Silicon Valley. It has developed a de facto partnership with NSA surveillance activities, as facilitated by a FISA court order.
Now, Lofgren notes, these CEOs want to complain about foreign market share and the damage this collusion has wrought on both the domestic and international reputation of their brands. Under the pretense of pseudo-libertarianism, they helmed a commercial tech sector that is every bit as intrusive as the NSA. Meanwhile, rigging of the DMCA intellectual property laws — so that the government can imprison and fine citizens who jailbreak devices — behooves Wall Street. It’s no surprise that the government has upheld the draconian legislation for the 15 years.
It is also unsurprising that the growth of the corporatocracy aids the deep state. The revolving door between government and Wall Street money allows top firms to offer premium jobs to senior government officials and military yes-men. This, says Philip Giraldi, a former counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer for the CIA, explains how the Clintons left the White House nearly broke but soon amassed $100 million. It also explains how former general and CIA Director David Petraeus, who has no experience in finance, became a partner at the KKR private equity firm, and how former Acting CIA Director Michael Morell became Senior Counselor at Beacon Global Strategies.
Wall Street is the ultimate foundation for the deep state because the incredible amount of money it generates can provide these cushy jobs to those in the government after they retire. Nepotism reigns supreme as the revolving door between Wall Street and government facilitates a great deal of our domestic strife:
“Bank bailouts, tax breaks, and resistance to legislation that would regulate Wall Street, political donors, and lobbyists. The senior government officials, ex-generals, and high level intelligence operatives who participate find themselves with multi-million dollar homes in which to spend their retirement years, cushioned by a tidy pile of investments,” said Giraldi.How did the deep state come to be?
Some say it is the evolutionary hybrid offspring of the military-industrial complex while others say it came into being with the Federal Reserve Act, even before the First World War. At this time, Woodrow Wilson remarked,
“We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the civilized world, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men.”This quasi-secret cabal pulling the strings in Washington and much of America’s foreign policy is maintained by a corporatist ideology that thrives on deregulation, outsourcing, deindustrialization, and financialization.
American exceptionalism, or the great “Washington Consensus,” yields perpetual war and economic imperialism abroad while consolidating the interests of the oligarchy here at home.Mike Lofgren says this government within a government operates off tax dollars but is not constrained by the constitution, nor are its machinations derailed by political shifts in the White House. In this world — where the deep state functions with impunity — it doesn’t matter who is president so long as he or she perpetuates the war on terror, which serves this interconnected web of corporate special interests and disingenuous geopolitical objectives.
“As long as appropriations bills get passed on time, promotion lists get confirmed, black (i.e., secret) budgets get rubber stamped, special tax subsidies for certain corporations are approved without controversy, as long as too many awkward questions are not asked, the gears of the hybrid state will mesh noiselessly,” according to Mike Lofgren in an interview with Bill Moyers.Interestingly, according to Philip Giraldi, the ever-militaristic Turkey has its own deep state, which uses overt criminality to keep the money flowing. By comparison, the U.S. deep state relies on a symbiotic relationship between banksters, lobbyists, and defense contractors, a mutant hybrid that also owns the Fourth Estate and Washington think tanks.
Is there hope for the future?
Perhaps. At present, discord and unrest continues to build. Various groups, establishments, organizations, and portions of the populace from all corners of the political spectrum, including Silicon Valley, Occupy, the Tea Party, Anonymous, WikiLeaks, anarchists and libertarians from both the left and right, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and whistleblowers like Edward Snowden and others are beginning to vigorously question and reject the labyrinth of power wielded by the deep state. Can these groups — can we, the people — overcome the divide and conquer tactics used to quell dissent? The future of freedom may depend on it.
About the Author
Jake Anderson writes for The Anti Media.
This article (Forget the New World Order, Here’s Who Really Runs the World) is free and open source. You have permission to republish this article under a Creative Commons license with attribution to Jake Anderson and theAntiMedia.org. Anti-Media Radio airs weeknights at 11pm Eastern/8pm Pacific. If you spot a typo, email [email protected].
Read featured article here
[ Source : The Liberty Beacon ]
See Also:
https://www.thelibertybeacon.com/?s=Peter+Dale+Scott
A Comparison of the Dialectics (language) of "Jason Hine"
and Peter Dale Scott with regard to the so-called "Deep State"
Jason Hine writes:
"Part of the fascist strategy is to misguide people into thinking the centrist neoliberal policies that trouble them are leftist policies.The far right then pretend to be rebels against capitalism, whilst in fact standing for an even more extreme and brutal form of capitalism.
"Spreading disinformation and fictional conspiracy theories through mechanized AI algorithms to lure alternative culture luminaries and leftists to the far-right has been part of the international far right and fascist play book for a long time.
"The fascist strategy is to pose as a "rebel" against the system, and get leftists and hippies to attack each other and attack civil society in the West thinking they are fighting a noble fight against George Soros, "globalism" or the imaginary "deep state."
"The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.
"Also, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles."
From an Interview of Peter Dale Scott in Tikkun Magazine in July of 2017Tikkun: Please tell our readers more about the deep state.
PETER: Well, let’s start with three Beltway agencies that are principal in it: the NSA who probably overheard all the conversations that are at stake here, the CIA which has got a long history of manipulating press leaks, and the FBI who are in charge of the Russiagate investigation. But I want to think on a larger level. I already mentioned that the media play a role in the deep state. What I’m now calling the “deep state media” includes the New York Times, the Washington Post and close behind them the LA Times and The Wall Street Journal. I’ve defined the deep state as “the wider interface in America between the public, the constitutionally established state, and the deep forces behind it of wealth, power, and violence outside the government.” In other words, the deep state is the sum of all the forces who are not authorized by the Constitution to exercise political power, and therefore are in the role of playing a significant but unauthorized political role, often in secret.
Tikkun: In your understanding, is the Pentagon part of your definition of the deep state or or not?
PETER: The Pentagon is not an independent player in the way it was under JFK and JBJ. In those days, backed by a powerful military-industrial complex, the Joint Chiefs resented and frequently challenged White House limitations on their actions. Today what the Pentagon does in a regular way has been brought more under civilian control.But the military component of the U.S. economy and budget has grown and the old civilian component has withered. An increasing role is now played by hi-tech industries which are harder to define on this spectrum. This has created a new militarized economy in which hawks are found everywhere.
I argue in The American Deep State that 9/11 empowered Cheney, Rumsfeld, and their lobby PNAC (the Project for the New American Century) to implement their expansionist policies into Afghanistan and Iraq, with a momentum that Clinton and the Dems have since sustained in Libya and Syria. But the Pentagon didn’t provide the impetus here; in fact Rumsfeld and Cheney had to clear out of the way a reluctant General Shelton, who was Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. Pressure was coming more from the oil industry (including Cheney’s old company Halliburton) who had their eyes set on creating a US military presence to overshadow and protect U.S. oil developments in Central Asia.
Tikkun: Are our major corporations part of what you are calling the deep state?
PETER: Well some corporations are, yes. The big oil companies are even in the subtitle of my book (Big Oil), because they conduct their own foreign policy. This fact is almost never written up, so you have to go to very specialized sources to find out what’s going on. But they have a very intimate relation with the CIA, often via the CIA’s “cleared contractor” firms like Booz Allen Hamilton. And you can’t mention these corporations without mentioning the financial interests involved in them. It was relatively simple back in the ‘50s, when the Rockefellers were Big Oil, and they also controlled the Chase Manhattan Bank and the Council on Foreign Relations; and these interests all had a very close connection with the law firm Sullivan and Cromwell. And Solomon and Cromwell partners John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles were Secretary of State and head of CIA….
The easiest way to see what’s happening now is to remember how much clearer the deep state was back in the 50s.The concept of a deep state is vital, and even the people who are using the term don’t understand how really relevant the deep state is in this, because of what is being left out. The debate is being carried on in the big media as if the media were not part of the deep state, but they are. And what’s being left out altogether is the role of billionaires, and believe me that is very relevant here. The media are talking about Beltway agencies and too many people are only talking about them. Why aren’t more people talking about Robert Mercer or the Koch brothers or Karl Icahn? These men have been restructuring US politics, because they all have a stake in shrinking the government and getting rid of regulations. And this squabble is fine for them. No matter who wins between Trump and the Beltway agencies, the billionaires are likely to come out even more powerful and unregulated...
*******
Analysis:
When one compares the dialectics of Jason Hine with the dialectics of Peter Dale Scott, Professor Emeritus at UC Berkeley, it is not too difficult to see who is talking through his hat, and who is spot on. Mr. Hine speaks in generalities and platitudes, while Peter Dale Scott names names and deals in specifics.
Is the "deep state" an "imaginary" construct as Jason Hine alleges ? I think it is fair to say that Peter Dale Scott establishes the reality of it - and that it exists in some manifestation in every government on the planet - Especially here in the United States.
Dealing with the last two verses
of Jason Hine’s Misbegotten Prose
"The purpose in these disinformation campaigns and conspiracy theories are to divide people against each other, divide the working class, undermine democratic systems in the US and Europe and forward the agenda of white supremacist Christian fundamentalism.”
What does this have to do with the Corona-virus Crisis? Larry, can you tell us? Can anyone show how this sentence is relevant to the issues that are before us – or can anyone point to a specific example of the activity described in this sentence? I aver that it is a bogus construct and totally irrelevant with regards to the issue at hand.
In the first place, “white supremacist Christian fundamentalism” is a very insignificant tendency in the field that is called “Christendom.” One may place the KKK in that corner, but that is about all. What Jason Hine shows by making such a construct is A. His general ignorance of the field and B. His hatred for Christ and Christianity in general.
Don’t get me wrong. There are serious and systemic problems with “Christianity” as it exists in Amerika in the present. But I would tend to point the scholar who is intent on understanding the nature of the rot to look in another corner of the field, besides the grassroots racist right, the white supremacist, eedjit biker types... The article “Christianity In The Service Of A"Religio-Political-Corporate-Terrorist" State” is a more appropriate place to begin.
See also the article "THE CEDARS:" THE HOUSE ON 24th STREET” = &/OR = Watch the documentary mini-series, "THE*FAMILY"
"Also, one of the far right's current strategies is to actively rebrand themselves as spiritual teachers or "new paradigm influencers." Some of those right wing "new paradigm influencers" around today share some of the same beliefs as the fascists and Nazis from the 1920's and 30's but use a cover identity as new thought teachers, spiritual teachers, coaches and new paradigm influencers to forward their agenda and get ingress in leftist and alternative culture circles."
Now this is another kettle of fish, because it is of necessity, a totally different camp of people. One could not be a member of this set and pass muster in the set of folks who Jason Hine failed to identify, but nevertheless described in the last paragraph.
I doubt that Jason Hine himself could name any specific person who fits the description that he has offered here. Can anyone in Waccoville help me out here? Can you, Larry?
Furthermore the rot in the New Age Movement predates this “current strategy” that Jason Hine ascribes to the “far right.”In point of fact, the Nazis themselves and their acolytes and admirers in Britain and Amerika were the New Agers of the 1920’s and 30’s -their very Selves.
This is an unpleasant truth that current “New Agers” may find hard to swallow. But the proof of the pudding is in the book, “The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow” that a certain conservative female trial lawyer, Constance Cumbey – a Phyllis Schlafly type of old gal if there ever was another – wrote back in the early 1980’s. I'll say it again - just so you get it: Hitler & the S.S. were considered Fellow Travelers by Alice Bailey & Co.
One thing you’ve got to concede to Bircher types – historically, most of them were equally anti-Nazi & anti-Fascist as they were anti-Communist. That’s something they had in common with Hannah Arendt and her coterie of Frankfort School revisionists who were quite content to make Aliyah in Amerika after the War.
Mark Passio classifies it as a religion & I had no idea the evils created it.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
This is a long, but great video if people can watch it in pieces.
https://youtu.be/DtWm4ndkoBk
So much of society IS against men, meaning the male gender.
I didn't realize how much work the evils put into bringing down men until a couple of years ago.
Even the feminist movement was created for that reason although there's other reasons Rockefeller launched it.
Men on this earth are dying. Both in their essence & what it means to be a man. :(:
"so much of the society is against men"??? that's because men have an oversize presence in the society! Shockingly, you can indeed tell that there are women in the society too; not all accommodations for gender are exclusively for the males. But damn near all the important ones. And this 'war on men' you allude to is often a case of unhealthy gender stereotypes coming home to roost. No-one but men forced those on men. They're often unintended side effects of tactics taken to enforce male supremacy anyway.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by OurFreeSociety:
Well considering everything we've been taught is a lie I'm not even sure anymore. Since I'm not out in mainstream society I can only go by what the evil hollywood created TV & movies portray.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
But I do know that mothers have also demasculated (not all of course) their sons, & that yes, fathers only concentrated on sports, but then again, so did the school system which is toxic in & of itself.
As far back as at least 10-15 years ago I was shocked to learn that most girls are graduating HS & going onto to college vs boys & this was all b/c of the focus on BS sports which as you can see (if you look closely) is a way for society to turn their focus from the truth, towards shallow things that don't matter.
Note: I don't care about post secondary education. It's a scam racket that doesn't make the kids any more intelligent than someone who didn't go to post secondary. AND it convinces people who don't go that there's something wrong with them.
In fact just the idea of intelligence makes MOST of mainstream society cringe, which is horrific to me. This is why 90% of society now is completely brainwashed & slaves so the lies of the evils & the rest of us are suffering because of it.
Even women over the years have started focusing on sports which shocked me.
In fact most women (again, not all) wanted to become like men to fit into the male dominated biz world.
And almost ALL men these days aren't real men, they are little boys trapped in a man's body. That's due to emotional trauma as a child that society REFUSES to acknowledge because they fear themselves.
A real man doesn't abuse women or other men & society as a whole.
Only someone full of immense EGO (insecurity) does that & that's been going on for as long as I have been reading the true history (not the fake lies) of what has really taken place.
Most of that is due to the evils creating a climate of scarcity, dominance & abuse so their only option was to play ball or succumb as a slave to the evils..
And real men don't want a woman to order him around and/or want her to abuse him physically in the bedroom. This is no offense to men who want this, I understand it's a psychological trauma just like men who were forced into being gay due to the evils poisoning us all these years focusing on the hormones, digestive system & the brain. The 3 main areas we as a human need in order to be a fully healthy human being.
Oh, & they also started making it so most babies came out female, not male. In fact there was this whole BIG thing (which they buried of course) in Sarnia, ON around 10-15 years ago, where Native women were only giving birth to females otherwise they were miscarrying.
They lived right across from a toxic chemical plant across the Detroit river (I think it was). Scientists from all over the world were coming to see what was going on.
That was their goal, & they succeeded b/c people were too busy just working to survive, or thinking that making tons of money is the only reason for living.
And so here we are in a state of war & when REAL MEN are needed to protect the tribe/family, they are nowhere to be found. Not that women can't also help to protect, but anthropologically speaking & physically speaking, they weren't meant to & this is NO insult towards women. Woman shouldn't have to act & be men to think they are worth something in this world.
I won't even touch on how most trans are MTF & that's just the way the evils want them as the trans epidemic is their doing. No offense to trans people, they are victims in this situation. Did you know that 90% of all stars (actors, singers, models, even sports) are trans? That's the ONLY reason they are successful b/c they made a pack with the evils to sell their soul for stardom & money.
P.S. I'm a woman just to be clear. It's hard to wrap your head around which is why learning THE TRUTH is so very important.
Ha ! You come upon this poster, Peter, guns blazing, in perfect form as the left-wing reactionary that you are, virtue-signalling to the Womenfolk in the audience that you are a true and certifiable "sensitive new age guy." Did you even open the link to see or hear the lecture by Mark Passio? I doubt it. Do you ever open any links? That is questionable. I advise you to do your homework, Peter, before you shoot off your cap gun.Quote:
podfish wrote:
"so much of the society is against men"??? that's because men have an oversize presence in the society! Shockingly, you can indeed tell that there are women in the society too; not all accommodations for gender are exclusively for the males. But damn near all the important ones. And this 'war on men' you allude to is often a case of unhealthy gender stereotypes coming home to roost. No-one but men forced those on men. They're often unintended side effects of tactics taken to enforce male supremacy anyway.
The irony of this situation is that the poster, "Our Free Society" is a Woman, Peter. Of course, you just assumed that the poster was a typical, dumb male chauvinist. The woman in question contacted me early in August in response to my posts on the "Hoaxes of Deborah Tavares" thread. We have been talking on the telephone.
If I may say a word on her behalf - until she responds to your comment* - I think what she is saying is that most of the men-folk have been gelded & neutered by the social engineering sponsored by the likes of the Rockefeller Foundation. She is signalling to us that she misses the real men - the kind that used to exist in society before the social engineering took place.
That is one aspect of the message in the seven hour lecture by Mark Passio that is at the other end of a simple click on the link. I opened that link up the hour her post appeared on the thread... I let the lecture run into the early hours of the morn, though it is an illustrated lecture. I got a lot out of the mere words.
* [ EDIT : She beat me to the punch, and posted first... ]
I don't know whether it's worse these days than it's been. I tend to think not, but it sure feels that way. The emotional appeal of knowing that you're seeing through the lies of the world, not wearing the blinders that all the sheeple have, that you've taken one of the few red pills, is maybe stronger now because of the onslaught of information. The internet is a firehose, when before people had to rely on thinner streams of 'insight'.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by OurFreeSociety:
Not just OFS's post, we get it everywhere now. Wholesale via places like Fox News, retail on every little BBS. I've proven here I'm not shy about making my own judgements and expressing them, so I'm trying to avoid singling out anyone as a kettle here. But this unbounded confidence that so many show in their insight and even more in the cluelessness or mendacity of the world at large is occasionally very hard to take. Sometimes it helps to rail against it a bit, but sometimes it's just disenheartening to see how strong such worldviews are in so many.
A little cynicism and a few cynics can be helpful in holding the powerful accountable and encourages questioning what seems obvious, but too much of it is destructive and actively prevents common action that would improve our world. We can survive an occasional betrayal, we can't survive if there's inability to work together because there's no trust. The people who apply unpassable purity tests to any policy or leader, holding out for perfect solutions, cede the decisions to those who are perfectly happy exploiting the flaws in the current systems for their own gains.
sorry, Barry, this removal of the ability to selectively quote is a problem when responding to elements within long posts.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
".Do you ever open any links? "
.. almost never to movies. Note though I don't react to her movie, I react to the words she put in her post.
"The irony of this situation is that the poster, "Our Free Society" is a Woman, Peter. Of course, you just assumed that the poster was a typical, dumb male chauvinist"
.. read my post again, MM. Not a word says anything about OP. You're projecting here, something you're wont to accuse others of.
I think what she is saying is that most of the men-folk have been gelded & neutered by the social engineering sponsored by the likes of the Rockefeller Foundation. She is signalling to us that she misses the real men "
... I didn't want to assume that, but it's true it was implied. And her (and your) subsequent posts do seem to go there. Espousing such a world-view doesn't seem to me to show a lot of enlightenment or free-thinking. "Real men" ?? my god...
Quote:
Peter / podfish wrote:
A little cynicism and a few cynics can be helpful in holding the powerful accountable and encourages questioning what seems obvious, but too much of it is destructive and actively prevents common action that would improve our world. We can survive an occasional betrayal, we can't survive if there's inability to work together because there's no trust. The people who apply unpassable purity tests to any policy or leader, holding out for perfect solutions, cede the decisions to those who are perfectly happy exploiting the flaws in the current systems for their own gains.
I agree with what you wrote here in this particular paragraph, Peter. And though we do disagree again & again, I do appreciate the fact that you are an habitual cynic. I'm a cynic, too. That is why I always question the "cover stories" that are presented to us on convenient platters by the mainstream media.
I just wish that you. Peter/podfish would open the links, and do some serious thinking about the 'alternative' data that has been presented down here in the Ninth Ward of this forum known as WaccoBb. To not do so, but to merely react to the patois of the posters is to dwell on the surface - and that, by definition, makes your commentary superficial. I have made this point before, Peter.
And You could learn a thing or two if you would simply open up the link that "Our Free Society" posted on this thread. It is a lecture, Peter, seven hours long. One can parse it out into bite-sized 1-hour segments. That fellow, Mark Passio has a lot of insight into what is wrong with the "New Age Movement". I suggest that you listen to it also, Larry Robinson. You as a therapist could also learn more than a few things from the very legitimate insights of Mark Passio, the man. Here it is again:
In closing, Peter, I would say that it is true that men in our society have been emotionally and spiritually gelded, and that it is legitimate to point that out. The construct "real men" is not a toxic juxtaposition of words. Instead, it is a "Real Idea" - one that highlights the damage that has been done & the after-effects of the social engineering fostered by the Rockefeller Foundation - whose obvious class interests should be apparent in having created a society of neutered males. Capishe ?
Umm, you CAN'T improve the world if the world is run one-sided & we are slaves.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
You know we are slaves, right?
If you have to ask anyone for permission to do ANYTHING in this world & in this case we have to ask our masters for permission to do almost ANYTHING, then you are NOT FREE!
Plain & simple.
You know you don't even own your own land, house, car, etc.? Right? Read the small print.
The evils use the gov't to control us, & what better example of that then now during this take-down of humanity where we are in month 7. That's unless you want to go back to Dec. when they first started their propaganda piece re: the scam CV.
I would LOVE to make this world a better place. It's been a goal of mine forever, BUT I was being very very naive when I attempted to do that NOT knowing that we are being prevented in doing so at every turn by the evils.
Unless you've studied everything I have & put the pieces together, you will have no idea what I'm referring to. I'm still learning more & more every day b/c playing catch up on history is very very time consuming. You have to literally unlearn & relearn everything including who controls what, how they have been harming us every decade, century, even thousands of years before & that isn't a small feat.
Since you clearly have no intentions of learning from any of the info I give you, this will be my last comment, as I don't have time to waste on someone who has no interest in learning.
As for the men, men have been weak for ages. I started to notice this in 2009 (maybe even '97), but at the time I didn't' know why, as I wasn't awake back then.
This is NOT just about the man's general character, but all the things I mentioned which people seemed to miss.
Physiological things like low sperm count, sperm count that isn't fertile, shrinking penises, they have turned a huge amount of men gay & into trans (women), & just the very fact that NO MAN today has the guts to stand up to the war we are in. Go back even 200 years & men would have been willing to go in guns blazing to protect their family and/or land.
And YES, of course men should be in touch with their feelings, but that has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That's a whole other topic that I could go into, but won't here.
I can't STAND war, but the evils have drawn us into this toxic war & people are going along with the destruction of humanity like the sheeples they are.
Women need to be stronger too & I see many women who appear to be stronger, but I'm only talking about men now b/c putting all the pieces together about how the evils have been trying to eradicate men since at least the early to mid 90s, they wouldn't have DARED start this war if they thought men were going to stand up & start fighting back - And they were right.
I hope one day before they kill you, you start to open your eyes to the truth about what is going on.
P.S. Yes women have been abused for many many thousands of years, but they were also warriors many times too.
I haven't studied when, but I've heard about it a few times since I was a young adult.
And women can be bitches & abuse their children. I know, I've experienced it.
The mother is supposed to nurture & there were (maybe things are different now) very few mothers who nurtured.
I'm NOT saying none of them did, but they were the exception, not the rule.
In fact, if the mother does not nurture, the child is as good as emotionally & physically deformed.
It's the mother's role to nurture both with her breast & holding, hugging, caressing, whispering, caring, picking up the baby right away when it cries, feeding on time, etc.
Any neglect in those areas means the baby won't develop properly & will grow up to be emotionally dysfunctional that will also lead to physical issues which leads to sociological issues, & then they will pass these traits on to their children & so on.
It's a known fact that emotionally women are stronger, but men are supposed to be the protector.
BOTH genders need to be on this earth in order for it to flourish & in order for there to be synergy & procreation. You can NOT just have a woman dominated world just like you shouldn't have a male dominated world.
We need to work together as a team & that's why we have ying/yang & positive/negative in both true science (not the fake bought & paid for science of today) & true spirituality, not the toxic new age religion.
Be well.
This whole thread is bs, and I question the op, who is rumored to suffer from cognitive decline, despite admirable contribution to community. Yes we live in difficult times, and it's really easy to put others down because we are writing stronger opinion in effort to contribute. So the premise of this thread in context is suspect. I prefer to assume that our species is getting smarter as we screw the world. Call me an optimist.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
Ok three posts and you're done? What world do you stand in? You seem to have a lot to write about gender. Off topic, and weird. Man up, name your beef. Personally, as gender queer, I struggle to understand man/woman dichotomy.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by OurFreeSociety:
Fess up, rossmen. Who is this "op, who is rumored to suffer from cognitive decline" ?Quote:
Rossmen wrote:
This whole thread is bs, and I question the op, who is rumored to suffer from cognitive decline, despite admirable contribution to community. Yes we live in difficult times, and it's really easy to put others down because we are writing stronger opinion in effort to contribute. So the premise of this thread in context is suspect. I prefer to assume that our species is getting smarter as we screw the world. Call me an optimist.
On a Binary level you can only be referring to one of two people: Either to Larry Robinson, who initiated the thread... =OR= to myself. If you are referring obliquely to me, come clean. I say this because I am very well aware that I am the subject of "rumors." ‘Twas ever thus with people who are bright...
Other, less bright people are always jealous. I've had to deal with this shit ever since I was in nursery school. And when I was seventeen, I got flack from my own psychiatrist father, who had a photographic memory and was close to being a genius himself, but who nevertheless had me locked me up in Langley-Porter as my graduation present from Berkeley High. He was jealous of my intellect and he told me so. They don’t call them “shrinks” for nothing.
The "rumors" about this one ( i ) began back in 1997, when a co-member on the Steering Committee of the Jerry Brown affinity group "We The People" covertly told many folks out in the West County that I was "Crazy." This, even at a time when she was being 'friendly' to my face. I confess there was once a time when I would bloc with ‘Liberal Democrats’.
I learned this from a mutual friend, Moksha, who has since gone on to bigger and better things in the town of Budapest; the city his Hungarian revolutionary parents fled in 1956. In 1997, Moksha informed me that this other party - a female who frequently posts in this forum - had told him that she had “warned everyone in the Greens and the Acorns that I was crazy."
Evidently, some people think that when they slander someone else they are doing a good work. And what was the basis of this slander? I had simply said that Noam Chomsky was a C.I.A. Agent. You can do a web search on that one. There are a lot of others who hold that position. You may click on the link.
I also had told her that Federal Agents had visited my rural cottage and taken books and documents off the premises. That is still is the case. It is still happening. Recently, (Christmas night, 2018) the thugs on the Federal payroll graduated to cutting wires on engine blocks and stealing wifi antennas & hard drives out of computers while I was away.
Dickson Dangers’ old friend, Bruce Nywalt, was a witness to this. He was here at the time, and it was his truck that had the wires to a sensor hidden behind the engine block shorted with a serrated knife. I had to pay for two different trips & two mechanics to come out to find it & fix it, because Bruce had next to no money. It cost me several hundred dollars.
True confessions time. I am a targeted individual. You can also do a web search on that. I have conveniently supplied you with a link. Truth be told, we are living in a fascist police state, and the Fourth Amendment is quite gone.
I strenuously disagree that this whole thread is “bs” rossmen. Easy for you to say, rossmen, you who are a virtuoso at one-liners that are as vacuous as they are meaningless. The only difference between you and the excommunicated “cyberanvil” is your “orientation”.
This thread is important for several reasons. In the first place, the writ that Larry Robinson dropped in this department must be examined on a point by point basis. The article by Stephen Dinan is a significant bit of work. And I shall continue to examine it. Point by point.
Quote:
https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted in reply to the post by Larry Robinson: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
Stephen Dinan writes:
"At the deepest level, we are each participating in an upgrade to the human cultural operating system to a worldview that is holistic, sacred, inclusive, global, and expresses in a more peaceful and sustainable lifestyle. But this collective crisis has revealed serious design flaws that are corrupting that code and need to be addressed with patches or fixes in some fashion so that the new worldview actually is a sustainable and healthy upgrade.
This is not a problem with THEM (the conspiracy folks) but about systemic weaknesses in our emerging worldview, which most of us have participated in co-creating or perpetuating.
Our fellow movement members who have gone down to the bottom of the rabbit hole are basically revealing the problems that need to be addressed for our new worldview to actually be an enduring, solid upgrade for our world.
In fact, I would go so far as to say that we cannot solve our collective crises WITHOUT this upgrade happening and what we now have to face is that the code-base we thought was DONE is actually riddled with flaws. Those flaws in the design and promulgation of that worldview are contributing to many of our beloved once-allies going off the rails."
*******
Funny [not] that he should speak about this "code" as if we were all programmable computers. That is what the damned plutocrats want us to become, and you will hear the celebrity, Elon Musk speaking similar verbiage. And what about this construct concerning "our emerging worldview, which most of us have participated in co-creating or perpetuating..."*?? I would beg to differ. What passes for "New Age" doctrine is pablum that has been spoon fed to the preemies one spoonful at a time.
Since I am not now, nor have I ever been a "New Ager" I find the bulk of Stephen Dinan's spiel to be tedious and tendentious. But the cat is out of the bag; no "fix" or "patch" in the "code" will make the cat go back into the bag.
Momentous Events often have this effect - of effecting ye olde Sea-Change in consciousness, and forcing folks into novel thought-patterns and new alignments.
The "new paradigm" was & remains psychobabble / sprecken generated by a British Intelligence Operation that had its roots in the very significant and very obscure Alliance that the Rajahs made with the British East India Company at the time of the Seven Years War on the Subcontinent, when the Brits kicked the French out of the Deccan after the Battle of Plassey in 1757.
This joint venture Union - of the ruling class Rajahs of India and the Oligarchs of Angleterre - has been the sub rosa subtext of History ever since the end of the Seven Years War in 1763. It was the significant bond that both created and promoted the Theosophical Society of London & New York in 1875. This coalition has been the driving force behind the "New Age Movement" ever since.
The "code" of the "new paradigm" can't be "patched" - no matter how many words get spieled into the air by a thousand "New Age CEO's" or acolytes like Stephen Dinan. The "New Age" was and is a gyp. It is high time to wake up. The Real "New Age" - the One that the Globalist Billionaires of the Bilderberger / Club of Rome / Club of the Isles & World Economic Forum circles are building shall be Paradise for the Plutocrats : a two-tiered, neo-feudal future of two classes: Alphas & Drones; the Vision written in granite on the Georgia Guidestones.
From the Article "Anatomy of Delusion: How Otherwise Conscious People Descended into the Darkness
Stephen Dinan writes:
“…This is similar to shifting from seeing racism as a problem of stopping a small percentage of “bad people” to understand our participation and collusion in systemic racism.
Basically, if we’ve been on a path of personal growth, going to yoga classes, conscious music festivals, or spiritual retreats, and exploring greener, healthier, holistic lifestyles we have likely been subtly colluding in some deeper worldview problems that this crisis is bringing to the foreground.
As the CEO of a large company in the space, The Shift Network, I include myself in this. How have I been colluding in aspects of the problems in the “new paradigm” worldview that are now manifesting in people going into a land beyond reason?
That excavation requires more rigor than simply writing off people as delusional weirdos. But I think we can’t actually accomplish a solid upgrade of our culture without doing it…”
*******Perhaps some of the new agers who have "gone off the rails" yet whom Stephen Dinan charitably refrains from writing off as "delusional weirdos" are actually somewhat psychic & empathic people (positive traits in New Age Circles) who have become a bit shall we say nervous & uneasy about how the language / patois of Greensprechen has been co-opted by the likes of Dr. Peter Daszak & the Alliance for ID_2020, those wonderful, hip, 'New Age' Plutocrats who want to have you-uns all micro-chipped, and are busy bringing the Cashless Economy to Birth on a "Global" Level...
Cases in point :
From the Interview of Dr. Peter Daszak on Democracy Now ! on April 16, 2020 :
NERMEEN SHAIKH:
And could you also explain — you have talked about the environmental causes of this, what’s called a virus spillover, like — infectious diseases like COVID-19, causes such as environmental, causes such as deforestation, the loss of biodiversity, and wildlife poaching. You’ve also said that people are developing a lot of new towns in this region of southwest China with a lot of high-speed train lines. And you warn that we’re going to see more pandemics like this as long as such rampant development continues. So, could you explain what the link is between development and the spread of these infectious diseases?
PETER DASZAK:
Well, we’ve done the science on this. We’ve been working on this for 20 years. We tracked every known emerging disease to its origin, from the scientific literature. And then we tested, with mathematical models, what’s driving that, what are the causes that could underlie the emergence of these new diseases. And what we found is they emerge in places where human populations are very dense and growing. They emerge in the tropics mainly, because that’s where the wildlife diversity is, and the viruses that become pandemic come from wildlife.
And the other key factor is land-use change, people moving into new areas, encroachment into wildlife habitat, building roads into a forest for a mine or for a logging camp. There are many, many examples of diseases, like Ebola, SARS and others, HIV itself, from this. And that’s a global trend that will drive the rise of future pandemics.
Now, we’re not saying that we’ve got to stop every modern aspect of development. We can do these things, but we need to do them in a smarter way, a more sustainable way. And we need to start treating pandemics as a risk of doing these things around the planet. We’ve got to reassess our relationship with the environment and reduce our ecological footprint. It’s to the benefit of conservation. It’ll reduce climate change. It will also stop us getting sick. And I think that’s a really important point. For folks on the right who aren’t interested in conservation or climate change, what about your own health? You know, we are making ourselves sick by making the planet sick.
And that’s really the message that needs to come through from this, because if we just treat this as another disease, wait for a vaccine and then think, “Great, it’s all over,” well, I’ve got news. There are 1.7 million more viruses out there that will be emerging in the future. We can either wait for them to emerge and get sick and have another global recession, or we can get out there and readdress our relationship with wildlife and make the planet a little bit healthier...."
Sourcehttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png
Transcript of Interview
= MORE Greensprechen Psychobabble=
This from the ID_2020 Web-page :
An approach that is holistic, market-based and
addresses the full scope and scale of the challenge
No government, company or agency can solve this challenge alone. Setting the future course of digital ID and navigating the associated risks is a challenge that requires sustained collaboration and global partnership.
ID2020 is building a new global model for the design, funding, and implementation of digital ID solutions and technologies. There is no other multi-stakeholder effort focused on user-managed, privacy-protecting, and portable digital ID.The ID2020 Alliance is unique in its
philosophy and transparent governance.
Ad-hoc investments in single use-case projects (“business as usual”) will be insufficient to bring about transformative impact. Changing the flow of funds is necessary to re-align incentives. That’s why Alliance partners are pooling funds to invest in programs that consider digital ID holistically, as a platform for diverse benefits, services, and use cases throughout an individual’s life.
Private sector engagement is critical for solving at scale. Alliance partners include companies with a collective footprint in the billions and a shared commitment to an ethical approach to digital ID. Decisions about how Alliance funds are administered, which programs to fund, and which technical standards to support are made jointly by Alliance partners through a transparent governance process, preventing dominance by any single institution or sector.
[ Source ]
what? no mention of Bill Gates or manufactured virii? IIRC MM, you've been on the side of those claiming this is manufactured. Maybe that's a misremembering.Quote:
We tracked every known emerging disease to its origin, from the scientific literature. And then we tested, with mathematical models, what’s driving that, what are the causes that could underlie the emergence of these new diseases. And what we found is they emerge in places where human populations are very dense and growing.
Dear Peter:Quote:
Peter / podfish wrote :
what? no mention of Bill Gates or manufactured virii? IIRC MM, you've been on the side of those claiming this is manufactured. Maybe that's a misremembering.
Had you been paying attention, you would have gathered by now that this one ( i ) doth believe that this particular individual, Dr. Peter Daszak, is a certifiable & veritable villain. And that, via the sure channels of Buddhist Logic !
Quote:
Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell
- 1. (If A is B), A is B
- 2. A cannot be both B and not B
- 3. A is either B or not B
- 4. A is neither B nor not B
- But alas, you do "misremember". I get it. In this latest quote - of Dr. Peter "Mengele" Daszak, the man gets quoted as a sample of how a disingenuous individual can speak the patois of Greensprechen, and smile & smile and yet be a villain. I would refer you to Post #100 over on the 'Coronavirus "Reality" and "Conspiracy"' thread, but, being as you seem to have an allergy to clicking on links, I'll copy and paste it here, as well:
https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Posted in reply to the post by occihoff: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
Richard, aka, occihoff, Evidently you missed the dialog on the other thread : "Robert F Kennedy Jr Exposes Gates' Globalist Vaccine Agenda", in which I focused on the meaning of the term "gain-of-function" research as it applies to the field of virology. Here is a clip of what I wrote there:
"For the present, let us simply examine one term that professor Peter Boyle speaks of in his interviews with Dr. Joseph Mercola – the phenomena of “gain-of-function” research on corona-viruses that originate in bat caves in China. He has a lot to say about it – none of it very charitable or especially forgiving. He also says categorically that the BSL-4 Laboratory in Wuhan, China is a “Bio-weapons Lab” He does not mince words.
Dr. Peter Daszak, on the other hand, failed to mention to Amy Goodman’s listeners on Democracy Now! “O, by the way, I was doing “gain-of-function” research on Corona-viruses from bat caves in China at the lab in Wuhan.” –A big glitch. But the journalist, Fred Guterl, in his article in Newsweek fills in that gap:
"...The NIH research consisted of two parts. The first part began in 2014 and involved surveillance of bat coronaviruses, and had a budget of $3.7 million. The program funded Shi Zheng-Li, a virologist at the Wuhan lab, and other researchers to investigate and catalogue bat coronaviruses in the wild. This part of the project was completed in 2019.
A second phase of the project, beginning that year [2019, ed.] included additional surveillance work but also gain-of-function research for the purpose of understanding how bat coronaviruses could mutate to attack humans. The project was run by EcoHealth Alliance, a non-profit research group, under the direction of President Peter Daszakhttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png, an expert on disease ecology. NIH canceled the project just this past Friday, April 24th, Politico reported. Daszak did not immediately respond to Newsweek requests for comment..."
-And Josh Rogin, in the article in the Washington Post fleshes out a little more detail about the nature of “gain-of-function research” :
"The research was designed to prevent the next SARS-like pandemic by anticipating how it might emerge. But even in 2015, other scientists questioned whether Shi’s team was taking unnecessary risks. In October 2014, [under Obama, ed.] the U.S. government had imposed a moratorium on funding of any research that makes a virus more deadly or contagious, known as “gain-of-function” experiments."
Again, I call the waccobbians attention to the cognitive dissonance
between the words of professor Francis Boyle and Dr. Peter Daszak.
-As I said- You makes your choices
and you takes the consequences...
Coronavirus- Interview with Dr. Francis A. Boylehttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.pnghttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.pnghttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png
Coronavirus (COVID-19) - Interview with Dr. Francis A. Boylehttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.pnghttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.pnghttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png
- April 24, 2020
"Pure Baloney": Zoologist Debunks Trump's COVID-19 Origin Theory, Explains Animal-Human Transmissionhttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.pnghttps://www.waccobb.net/forums/images/youtube.png
{Dr. Daszak on Democracy Now !)
So the Question really becomes - and remains - "Is Covid-19 a Bio-Weapon or not?"