Militarized Sebastopol Police?

I was made to feel uncomfortable sipping coffee with a friend outside Andy's Market on Saturday morning. with Two stocky police officers seated near us. Both appeared to be wearing bulletproof vests and had oversized holstered guns dangling from their sides. Part of their conversation involved weaponry. This is not what I expect in a place which labels itself as the "Peace City." Is the Sebastopol Police Department expecting an insurrection or terrorist incident to happen at or near Andy's Market? I doubt it.

After the policemen left, I asked two patrons whether they had the same objection as I did. One responded that the arming of the officers for urban warfare pointed to the growing militarization of the police.

Next time, my friend and I may have our morning coffees elsewhere.

Here's a picture of the County Sheriff's Deputy that came to my home to harass me. I pulled it off his Facebook Page. It suggests to me he is probably a gun nut.

As far as Sebastopol Police, I don't know, but I think bullet proof vests are standard issue, and a 9mm pistol. Sheriff deputies are also required to carry a Taser and i think also pepper spray and a few other things. Baton? Sending any officer out these days without a bullet proof vest would be negligence.

People who enjoy talking about weaponry have a problem.

“Over sized holstered gun” that is standard issue, not anything unusual. If you are not comfortable with guns you will usually have an issue with any gun at all. I know this first hand. OC, Taser, handcuffs, badge and bullet proof vest, standard issue.

You say “this is not what I expect from a place that calls itself ‘peace city”, you do know we had somebody killed, in “peace city”, during the Apple Fair? We have gangs, this side of the 101, Todd rd and Hearn ave area!

I saw police at two other coffee shops the other day so if that bothers you, where are you gonna go? There is crime, it is real, happens in Sebastopol just like anywhere else, this is not college, there are no safe spaces, and I’m sure that Police Officer, who I’m sure would help you in a minute, wants, and should, be able to go home to their family!

as far as: People who enjoy talking about weaponry have a problem. Is that a actual clinical diagnosis or are you just making that up?

I also take some issue with: MikeHs post:
1) seems like you are stalking a sheriff. You said that he came to your home to harass you, did you file charges? Make a complaint? If you did not, you are part of the problem. YOU went on HIS Facebook, you post pictures of him making claims, who is harassing whom?
2) if I take a picture of me with a mountain in the back ground, am I a mountain climber? He took a picture, with dead foul, you conveniently say “gun nut” but nothing about being a “hunter”??? Seems like YOU have an agenda.

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Posted in reply to the post by MikeH:

Here's a picture of the County Sheriff's Deputy that came to my home to harass me. I pulled it off his Facebook Page. It suggests to me he is probably a gun nut.
...
People who enjoy talking about weaponry have a problem.

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as George Carlin said about driving, anyone faster than me is a maniac, anyone slower is a moron.

I have as much or more skepticism about the way policing is done as anyone, but it's a bit silly to find their interest in guns, their size (!?) and their equipment as outside the pale. Like it or not, we don't live in a non-violent, all-vegetarian world, and many if not most don't even think that would be desirable. People can be interested in guns without being 'gun nuts' - although to be fair, I guess that term can mean what you want it to.

But I think it's better to save the outrage for the not infrequent events where the police deserve it.

I think it's good when police eat or drink coffee in with the public in public establishments. It integrates them into the neighborhood better. Last year I was eating in Chipolte in Santa Rosa, where there were 2 SR policemen. I'd had a problem with cars being left for days in front of a property I own, and I was able to talk to them about it & get the laws that apply.

I think it's quite isolating being a policeman... so I think it's good when they stop for coffee or food in a restaurant. It seems we always want the police when we need them... and other times... often disdain them.

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Posted in reply to the post by Reheymann:

I was made to feel uncomfortable sipping coffee with a friend outside Andy's Market on Saturday morning. with Two stocky police officers seated near us. ...

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The reality is that they're everywhere, and they're armed.

A peaceful city doesn't get that way without some resident protesting of injustice and violence. This doesn't sit well with law enforcement, for the most part.

So, they need to be ready for any kind of "uprising", even in Sebastopol. It's also obvious that many in law enforcement enjoy the power of confrontation using their weapons as a show of force.

But they serve a purpose, and many of us have had to call on them during our lifetimes.

Reheymann: Outside Andy's? Sounds like sheriff's deputies.

So cops shouldn't take coffee breaks? And they should be diminutive? And "weaponry" talk? Sounds like shop talk.

The Sherriff used to have a "ride along" program - and the Sebastopol PD also. You might want to check them out. Believe it or not they are real human beings.

Shandi: " It's also obvious that many in law enforcement enjoy the power of confrontation using their weapons as a show of force." Is that from a published study or just your observation?

Mike H: a "gun nut" because he hunts ducks?

I am grateful for all the responses to my post entitled "Militarized Sebastopol Police." However, most responses don't address my main point. I am not anti police. I understand police must bear weapons to protect themselves and the community. I don't believe police should refrain from patronizing coffee shops.

My concern is that policing not be heavy handed, with police intimidating and injuring citizens they are charged with protecting. The growing police state throughout America has worrisome consequences for both the police and law abiding citizens. See the Bill Moyers article below.

https://dy00k1db5oznd.cloudfront.net...oyers-logo.png
Not Just Ferguson: 11 Eye-Opening Facts About America’s Militarized Police Forces

Valid starting point Reheymann; bad extrapolation: "Militarized Sebastopol police", "stocky", "bulletproof vests", "oversized holstered guns" (thank goodness they were holstered), "arming of the officers for urban warfare". More balance, please.

Such poor wording leads to pictures demonizing duck hunters as "gun nuts" and feeds the views of the 46.4% of the electorate that "owns the libs" - the 48.5 % Clinton voters.

“Assault rifle” is a myth now. California changed the words around and now, you you have a sling shot, with a handle, arm brace, and can hold no. 8 ball bearing, that is a assault weapon In California.

Ever try and hide a assault rifle, in your baggy gym shorts or pants, impossible. Hand guns are better at that.

Maybe you should have bought them a coffee and struck up an honest conversation.
Stalking him on FB then drawing conclusions because he's a duck hunter is totally uncalled for.
Our little burg of Sebastopol is not Mayberry of old. Unfortunately, there are real threats out there on our roads and in peoples' homes that need a certain amount of firepower to respond. Just like in every occupation, there are mostly good cops and a few bad ones. You should think twice before painting them with such a broad brush.

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Posted in reply to the post by 79paul:

...Stalking him on FB then drawing conclusions because he's a duck hunter is totally uncalled for....

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You are confusing me with another poster who went to Facebook to stalk an officer. I refuse to use Facebook.

Sorry, yes, looks like I confused the two posts. My apology.

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Posted in reply to the post by Reheymann:

You are confusing me with another poster who went to Facebook to stalk an officer. I refuse to use Facebook.

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Posted in reply to the post by 79paul:

Stalking him on FB then drawing conclusions because he's a duck hunter is totally uncalled for.

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On the contrary, I've every right to look up who this retard running around with a gun and a badge is after he harassed me, violated my rights, came onto my property with no cause, intimidating me, threatening me with jail and other consequences. I did nothing! Especially since my tax dollars were paying to carry his sorry ass on the public payroll.

Anyway, you can have your opinion. Including your opinion of me. My opinion is you can stick your opinion.

People are hilarious.

We want police.
We (nationally) complain they are unfair to minorities.
We expect them to always react correctly to someone holding a gun.
We complain when they show up in a coffee shop with a bulletproof vest.

Let's just send them out unarmed and defenseless and expect them to take a bullet for us anyways.:banghead:

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

I think it's good when police eat or drink coffee in with the public in public establishments. ...

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Many times I will buy their coffee for these people including paramedics and firefighters let alone thank them for what they do.

What catches my eye is your opener"I was made to feel uncomfortable", since that is the excuse of the many white Becky s who have been calling the police on black people who are minding their own business, perhaps drinking coffee in public while black. Getting along with each other is the task at hand, uncomfortable though it may be. 🌹

And with that thought process,,, the stupidiness really begins.

I'm grateful for the varied responses, pro and con, to my initial post, and for several notes of gratitude. This has been a teachable moment for me. The only response I absolutely disagree with is the response where the poster took it upon himself to shame a police officer by posting his Facebook photo and making unproven assumptions. If I have problems with a police officer, I would file a complaint with the police and consider taking legal action.

Besides myself, a dozen or so readers of Waccobb.net have participated in a discussion of whether Sebastopol police are behaving properly. We've had no input from the Sebastopol Police Department. My friend and I have agreed to forward my post and all responses it generated to a city councilman. We will ask whether he thinks it would be worthwhile to hold a council meeting in which concerned citizens and the police chief give their input.

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Posted in reply to the post by Reheymann:

...... We've had no input from the Sebastopol Police Department. My friend and I have agreed to forward my post and all responses it generated to a city councilman. We will ask whether he thinks it would be worthwhile to hold a council meeting in which concerned citizens and the police chief give their input.

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I may be missing something, but huh? I haven't seen anything in this thread that is actionable in any way. What would you expect the subject to be, or their response? This started with an expression of discomfort about the way they present themselves. But this thread doesn't have any suggestions about ways they should change.

There's some general acknowledgement that people often don't trust the police, sometimes with good reason. Is that the discussion you want to start?

If I was the chief, the last thing I'd want to engage in is some online discussion over the appropriate behavior of police in general, and the level of militarism in their field. A council meeting would be worse; what would the 'agenda item' for that be? It might be an interesting conversation face-to-face, but it sounds like nothing but trouble online without any specific issue to address.

The ride-along suggestion is a good one, if you're that interested in knowing more about the police perspective and in a chance to explain yours.

Your comparison is not a valid. My complaint was not directed at the police offers at Andy's who were behaving properly, but at their bulletproof vests and semi-automatic weapons. This suggests a police force that is militarized. Sebastopol is not Stockton or Modesto--both very high crime cities. I am not aware of any crimes taking place in Sebastopol which would warrant fitting police officers making their daily rounds fitted with bulletproof vests. This smacks of of intimidation of innocent citizens.

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Posted in reply to the post by Kay hafiza mathieu:

What catches my eye is your opener"I was made to feel uncomfortable", ...

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But we do live in a high crime area! You can’t be that blind. No, Sebastopol isn’t as bad as Stockton but Santa Rosa is alot worse then Sebastopol, how far away is that? Direct line on the 12!

as far as bulletproof vest is concered, again, STANDARD ISSUE! Nothing to see here folks.

as far as the “semi-automatic weapons” maybe It is you. You see, I grew up with guns in the house, shooting since I was 7, won my first shot gun at 10. A gun on the hip, holstered, doesn’t bother me. You make it sound like he was waving it around like it was a stir stick from his coffee. Maybe that is “your proception” when you see any gun. I understand this, people who are not use to being around guns, (I.e. a lot of Californians) are afraid of ANY GUN.

You might of had coffee with me, I shop at Andy’s, Fircrest, Fiesta, all over Sebastopol. I carry concealed. You can’t see mine, (shouldn’t be able to), but you probably wouldn’t be intimated by my “semi-automatic weapon!” A gun is like a tv remote control, you can load it, make ready, and set it on the table. IT AINT GONNA HARM NO ONE! EVER!!! Ya gotta pick it up first!

and yes, I am a psychologist. Smart as a whip and funny too. (Disclaimer: I can’t make an actual clinical diagnosis because I’ve never talked to you directly and I haven’t been paid dammit!)

So those things piled on top of the cop's trash cans were ducks? How many ducks does a guy have to slaughter to feed his family? Were the ones on the top that you could see the only dead ducks, or were there more corpses piled in the can below? Did he have to use a machine gun, or what, to kill so many ducks? Why did he take such satisfaction in posting his mass murder of ducks on his facebook page, like this is who I am, folks, ain't I wonderful? I don't know, fellow waccovians, maybe once you get to know this guy you get to liking him, but I sure wouldn't bet on it looking at his facebook post!

Everybody seems to have piled on poor Reheymann here, and although I think it is good that you all are expressing support for the police and the very difficult, essential, and sometimes dangerous work that they do, I have to express some support for Reheymann and his instinctive unease about police, because in my many decades on this planet I have seen them do some good things and I have seen them use the special power we invest in them to do some very bad things.

So I don't know about you, but I must admit that every time I see a cop I feel a little wary, a little mistrustful, just like Reheymann, because that guy has been invested with the power to do just about anything he wants to with me. And I just hate it that year after year so many black men are brutalized and murdered by vicious, racist, and sadistic cops, and they almost always get away with it because the police department and the politicians bend over backwards to back them up, no matter what!

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

...., I have to express some support for Reheymann and his instinctive unease about police, because in my many decades on this planet I have seen them do some good things and I have seen them use the special power we invest in them to do some very bad things. So I don't know about you, but I must admit that every time I see a cop I feel a little wary, a little mistrustful, just like Reheymann, because that guy has been invested with the power to do just about anything he wants to with me. And I just hate it that year after year so many black men are brutalized and murdered by vicious, racist, and sadistic cops, and they almost always get away with it because the police department and the politicians bend over backwards to back them up, no matter what!

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oh, I'm totally with you on the unease bit. And I think it's good that they're scrutinized, and that there's a big movement in the country focusing on exactly the militarization issue. Usually, though, there's no reason to focus on cops on the job, going about their day. They signed up for a job which gives them a lot of power, so some extra scrutiny and some unease on the parts of people around them are to be expected. But except for the cases where individual cops have acted improperly, the attention on policing should be aimed at the departments and their policies.

Here's a court filing you may find worth reading, because it cost us $1.9 Million to settle this lawsuit against the Sheriff's Office. We had been told that everything was done by the book, and the suit was without merit. Apparently efforts to have it dismissed failed. The filing is attached as a pdf file.

On the evening of May 16, 2014, Glenn Swindell and his wife, Sarah Swindell, had an argument while driving home from a work function. Upon arriving home, Glenn and two of his children entered their home as Sarah delayed in exiting the vehicle. Glenn locked the front door of the house, and the argument continued as Sarah stood outside. Sarah then called 911, reported the incident -- which she stated was nonviolent -- and requested assistance in getting her children.

The responding sheriff deputies ("deputies") made contact with Glenn through the locked front door of the home, and Glenn agreed to release his children. Glenn then demanded that the deputies leave. He also made clear that he had a fear of law enforcement, stating that he was afraid they would shoot him as they had shot a thirteen-year-old child, Andy Lopez.

At some point, the deputies and their supervisors learned that Glenn was the lawful owner of two firearms. They also searched his Facebook page and falsely reported to other deputies that Glenn had made disparaging statements about law enforcement. Angered and frustrated, the deputies and their supervisors undertook a plan to punish Glenn for refusing to speak with them or let them into his home.

In order to secure a search and arrest warrant, the deputies and their supervisors fabricated evidence and lied about the circumstances relating to the incident, including:

a) That Glenn Swindell had committed a battery upon Sarah Swindell;
b) That Glenn Swindell had imprisoned Sarah Swindell;
c) That Sarah Swindell felt fearful and intimidated by Glenn Swindell's actions;
d) That Glenn Swindell had barricaded himself in his home;
e) That Glenn Swindell had cut off communications with the Sheriff personnel who were present at his home and property;
f) That Glenn Swindell had used his firearms in committing a felony; and
g) That Glenn Swindell had committed a public offense.

At some point during the incident, Sarah Swindell approached the deputies and requested that the situation be de-escalated. In response, the deputies threatened to take Sarah's children from her if she failed to cooperate.

The deputies and their supervisors then summoned the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office SWAT. Approximately 50 officers responded. Upon arriving at the scene, one of the SWAT supervisors (identified as Doe 6) exclaimed, "Why don't you just kill the fucker!" The SWAT team then proceeded to use a military assault vehicle, concussion bombs, and chemical agents to break down the garage door and enter the Swindell home.

Upon gaining entry, the SWAT unit learned that Glenn was in the attic, that he feared the police would kill him, and that he was armed. At no time, however, did Glenn indicate that he intended to harm anyone.

After Glenn refused to come out, the SWAT unit began to pump gas into the attic. Given Glenn's extreme fear of the police, the deputies and SWAT officers knew that Glenn was unlikely to leave the attic notwithstanding the extreme pain that the gas would inflict. After suffering intense mental and physical anguish as a result of the gas, Glenn took his own life with a single gunshot to his head.

Thanks so much for posting this story of Swindell's murder/suicide, Michael. It is truly shocking. More details about Swindell's fate are available in this article that appeared on February 27, 2015 in The Press Democrat:

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/3...y-over?sba=AAS

Anyone living within and outside Sonoma County who is not concerned about police overreaction and murder has his head in the sand.

'Midst all the angst, misinformation and poorly thought out opinions expressed on this thread, a ray of goodness from ... Rohnert Park. They had the real good sense to entice Jeff Weaver out of retirement. Jeff was a really fine Chief of the Sebastopol police and ran a great operation. The report from the PD
(catch the "high moral and ethical values" and "kind man"):

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...4_15-56-29.png

Rohnert Park taps former Sebastopol police chief to run its public safety department

JULIE JOHNSON
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | July 31, 2018, 7:09PM

"Rohnert Park officials have selected former Sebastopol Police Chief Jeff Weaver to serve as interim director of the city’s public safety department, an appointment made one week after the current director, Brian Masterson, abruptly announced he would be retiring from the agency amid controversy over his department’s highway drug seizure program.

Weaver, 51, who is retired, has been a law enforcement leader in Sonoma County for decades, serving 13 years as Sebastopol’s police chief and as a mentor to generations of local cadets as an instructor at the Santa Rosa Junior College police academy.

If his appointment is confirmed by the City Council on Aug. 14, Weaver will be the second law enforcement veteran tapped by Rohnert Park officials to bring expertise and stability to its unified police and firefighting agency amid public fallout from the city’s aggressive asset forfeiture missions and the resignation of its top drug officer.
Rohnert Park City Manager Darrin Jenkins said he chose Weaver because he has “a reputation for high moral and ethical values.

“He’s a kind man, and I think he’ll bring some stability in the leadership,” Jenkins said.

Continues here

I want to point out that while the title of this thread references "Sebastopol Police" the initial post just references "police officers" at Andy's. Andy's is outside the city limits. So the officers are likely to be deputies of the Sonoma County Sherriff's office, rather than "Sebastopol Police".

Also, I have the highest respect of Jeff Weaver, the former Chief of the Sebastopol Police Department. I congratulate him and Rohnert Park on his new appointment. I have not met the new Chief of Sebastopol Police: James Conner.

I share Barry's high respect for former Sebastopol Police Chief Jeff Weaver. He is an honorable man who served our small town well, helping make our place safer. I wish him the best in his new work in Rohnert Park. He also trained our new Police Chief James Conner, who seems to be doing community policing with regard for our beloved small town and its safety.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Also, I have the highest respect of Jeff Weaver, the former Chief of the Sebastopol Police Department. I congratulate him and Rohnert Park on his new appointment. I have not met the new Chief of Sebastopol Police: James Conner.

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

So those things piled on top of the cop's trash cans were ducks? How many ducks does a guy have to slaughter to feed his family? Were the ones on the top that you could see the only dead ducks, or were there more corpses piled in the can below? Did he have to use a machine gun, or what, to kill so many ducks?

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Wow... you sure are uneducated as to hunting in this country.
Perhaps you should just stop commenting about it.
This is MAYBE a 2 day limit on duck hunting in the majority of the state.
This represents likely 1 good weekend hunting.
As to feeding his family... could your family live off that for a year?
You really have no clue. Machine gun?!?! HA.

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Posted in reply to the post by Kay hafiza mathieu:

What catches my eye is your opener"I was made to feel uncomfortable", since that is the excuse of the many white Becky s who have been calling the police on black people who are minding their own business, perhaps drinking coffee in public while black. Getting along with each other is the task at hand, uncomfortable though it may be. 

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Why are you using my name in a judgmental negative way. I think you can simply get your point across without using mine and anybody else who happens to have the name Becky You are playing the racist card as well.
Stop spreading racist and judgmental crap.. The idea is to rise above without labeling. It's just not a good idea to attach peoples names in this manner, the media and obviously you, just don't get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op7agdIFOGY

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Posted in reply to the post by Reheymann:

...Anyone living within and outside Sonoma County who is not concerned about police overreaction and murder has his head in the sand.

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I'm not sure I would classify this as militarized. I don't know what kind of weapons they were carrying, but if they were holstered, they were not AK 47s. They need to be armed, when they are facing bad guys with firepower. As far as bulletproof vests, I think it would be stupid for them not to wear them. Animal control came to my house when I had a dog come after me. The officer was wearing a vest. I commented on it, that it was a sad state when the "dog catcher" has to wear one. He said he had had guns drawn on him twice. It is a dangerous world, especially here in America where it weaponry is commonplace and accepted.

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Posted in reply to the post by Reheymann:

...My complaint was not directed at the police offers at Andy's who were behaving properly, but at their bulletproof vests and semi-automatic weapons. This suggests a police force that is militarized. Sebastopol is not Stockton or Modesto--both very high crime cities. I am not aware of any crimes taking place in Sebastopol which would warrant fitting police officers making their daily rounds fitted with bulletproof vests. This smacks of of intimidation of innocent citizens.

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Posted in reply to the post by Tofu Larry:

I'm not sure I would classify this as militarized.

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I agree. The militarization I worry about is partly about equipment - the light armor (vehicles) that some departments have, for example - but more about tactics. The "Colin Powell Doctrine" if I remember it right - come in with overwhelming force to prevent any resistance from forming. And the principle that officer safety is paramount. Unfortunately, I think it's inherently a dangerous job, and officers do have to accept a terrifying amount of risk. I think the vests are a reasonable balance. But too often the techniques used to lower the risk to the officer are dangerous to the civilian population, or increase the "us vs. them" sentiment in the community. The OP draws a different line than I do, but I think is expressing the same sentiment. And you can see the consequences of getting this wrong in the Andy Lopez case and how it still resonates here.

I wonder if there are any statistics showing how many of the officers involved in these shootings are ex-military?
Particularly recently ex-military?

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

I agree. The militarization I worry about is partly about equipment - the light armor (vehicles) that some departments have, for example - but more about tactics. ...

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Mike H, I know that "retard" has returned unfortunately to the common parlance as a way of referring to people we dislike and whose behavior we find illogical and undesirable. However, I still take offense at it, with its having started as a degrading way of referring to persons with developmental disabilities and/or Downs Syndrome. Sounds like this law enforcement official behaved inappropriately and it would be wise to report his behavior. Please don't jump into name-calling and disparaging marginalized persons by linking them with someone behaving irresponsibly and unethically. Thanks.

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Posted in reply to the post by MikeH:

On the contrary, I've every right to look up who this retard running around with a gun and a badge is after he harassed me, violated my rights, came onto my property with no cause, intimidating me, threatening me with jail and other consequences. I did nothing! Especially since my tax dollars were paying to carry his sorry ass on the public payroll.

Anyway, you can have your opinion. Including your opinion of me. My opinion is you can stick your opinion.

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Becky, I agree it's unfortunate that your name has become a popular way folks are referring to white people behaving in a racist manner. (EG Jennifer Schulte at Lake Merritt a couple of months ago, who before she was identified by name was referred to in memes as "BBQ Becky.")

However, I have to disagree firmly with your characterization of this this post as racist. We are seeing a lot of examples from all over the country of people who are white calling law enforcement on people who are black who are going through their everyday lives, e.g. barbecuing at a lakeside park, using a library, and most recently, eating lunch. To acknowledge that this is happening is not racist. It is a factual, critical observation of a disturbing trend in our contemporary society, a critique that we need to be doing more.

Kay Hafiza Mathieu made an analogy between this trend and the starting point of this post, an implicit principle that when we feel uncomfortable, there is an external problem that is responsible. It's a reasonable analogy, not "playing the racist card." It seems that you are also falling into a behavior of labeling that is exactly what you're calling out.

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Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:

Why are you using my name in a judgmental negative way. I think you can simply get your point across without using mine and anybody else who happens to have the name Becky You are playing the racist card as well.
Stop spreading racist and judgmental crap.. The idea is to rise above without labeling. It's just not a good idea to attach peoples names in this manner, the media and obviously you, just don't get it.

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Posted in reply to the post by forestvaros:

Becky, I agree it's unfortunate that your name has become a popular way folks are referring to white people behaving in a racist manner. ...However, I have to disagree firmly with your characterization of this post as racist. ...

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My point is to stop spreading sensational racist news made up by the media to get your comparison point made. And stop tarnishing my name in order to do that. The more we give attention to racist people, the more they continue to behave that way. And you are totally guilty of using and abusing my name in your post as well. Stop spreading racist rhetoric.

I agree. Maybe the word "retard" in such situations as Mike H described should be replaced by the word "asshole." Although that word has the defect of also referring to a perfectly excellent part of the body that has become besmirched with prudish disgust! But that's also why it has become so powerful as an epithet in our deeply prudish culture. "Jerk" would have been too mild. "Bully" would be pretty good. But "asshole" really expresses your rage and contempt in a situation where you've been brutalized by a bully who is unfairly protected by his badge, club, pepper spray, and gun!

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Posted in reply to the post by forestvaros:

Mike H, I know that "retard" has returned unfortunately to the common parlance as a way of referring to people we dislike and whose behavior we find illogical and undesirable. However, I still take offense at it, ...

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Yeah, once again, no. Talking about racism is not racist and is not spreading racism.

"Made up by the media" is a ridiculous claim that I am confident you cannot justify.

And no, I am not abusing your name. Let me introduce you to a concept called the quotation.

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Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:

My point is to stop spreading sensational racist news made up by the media to get your comparison point made. And stop tarnishing my name in order to do that....

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Unfortunately, Podfish, there seem to be way too many publicized cases in which "individual cops have acted improperly." And for every publicized case I bet there are a lot of cases that the public never gets to hear about. Certainly we all would agree with you that great attention should be paid to the departments and their policies, which all too often however tend to deny any wrongdoing, no matter how gross the offenses, and all too often they are backed up by politicians and a political system that does not want to get on the wrong side of the police. We hear case after case on the news of brutal cops literally getting away with murder, and for every such case you can be assured that there are many more instances of brutalization that do not amount to death.

I think one's slant on this issue has a lot to do with our social class. Middle class white people such as I don't tend to have the same life experiences involving police as poor people of color. However, my experiences with the police riots in Berkeley during the Free Speech and People's Park movements gave me a huge glimpse into a world I would never have known otherwise!

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

.... But except for the cases where individual cops have acted improperly, the attention on policing should be aimed at the departments and their policies.

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Posted in reply to the post by forestvaros:

Yeah, once again, no. Talking about racism is not racist and is not spreading racism. ...

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The racist rhetoric used by the media abusing my name in a racist way on mainstream t.v. and internet, and now it's being spread on this site. Nobody would want their name used and talked about in such a negative way.

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Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:

Nobody would want their name used and talked about in such a negative way.

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yeah, me and my brother John feel the same way, as does my relative with your name and her friend Dick. We get no respect.

-- Peter

A dude was throwing bombs under police cars in Guerneville today...
...and people wanna complain about police being prepared for war.

I understand your concern that the police be prepared for "war."* This is not the issue. The issue is that the police often act impatiently, with excessive and misdirected force. Did you hear about the decorated war veteran in Aurora, CO who police killed last Friday after he shot and killed a violent intruder in own home? The police claimed that he refused to drop his gun after repeated demands to do so. That sounds fishy to me. A war veteran would likely know better. The homeowner was clearly identified by his wife in her call to the police. Of course, since the only witnesses present were police, neither I nor anyone else can disprove that.

* Do you really mean "war?" We have military for that.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

yeah, me and my brother John feel the same way, as does my relative with your name and her friend Dick. We get no respect.

-- Peter

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Yeah thanks for the warped humor that goes with some names. Using my name in such a prejudice way is not only disrespectful it's outright discriminatory

Becky, I hear that you are truly distressed about your name standing for a white woman with a particular of characteristics, and I'm sorry for that. The irony is that the more you keep talking, the more you embody exactly the stereotype from which you are wanting to distance yourself. Using your name in the way that has become popular is disrespectful to the name, yes, but it is neither racist nor discriminatory. Prejudiced, perhaps. But not discriminatory and definitely not racist.

Neither you nor anyone in your family would be barred from immigration or migration on the basis of your name. You wouldn't be barred from making a dinner reservation under the name Becky or be refused service because of your name. You haven't had to pay more for a car or struggle to get a loan or a lease because of your name, and you haven't experienced difficulty getting a raise or a promotion any more than a Sally or a Roberta. You experience plenty of discrimination on the basis of your sex, yes. But not because of your name. And assuming you are white, which based on this conversation is an assumption I feel fairly confident in making, you still enjoy the many spoils of white privilege that I or any other white person gets to enjoy. Which means that we are simply not the subjects of racism, full stop.

You're right, I wouldn't want my name to become the term to describe a particular type of person, either. But you are vastly overstating the degree of your persecution to the point of sounding ridiculous. Which, I suspect, is why Peter made a joke about it.

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Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:

Yeah thanks for the warped humor that goes with some names. Using my name in such a prejudice way is not only disrespectful it's outright discriminatory

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Why puff up a minor incident to justify militant enforcement of societal order? Clearly you have a a lot to lose. I have never called on law enforcement to deal with problems and never will. They have been called on me and sometimes were cool, but too often they made the situation worse and i suffered injustice. I've rode along and worked with and even trained law enforcement personnel. I am very aware that just by writing this post I could be justifying my own death by cop. Weaver is the best of a bad lot. I challenged him, was berated by him, fought him in court and won. He cut off communication. Yes and he will probably improve the rodent park police process.

Call the cops, invite death, destruction, and injustice...

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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:

A dude was throwing bombs under police cars in Guerneville today...
...and people wanna complain about police being prepared for war.

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Well here we are then;
we have cops with their job(not an easy one but one THEY chose) we have people scared and confused by a showing of more potential force by the now "better" equipped force. and we have a few groovy dudes who stand behind increased gun violence as a solution to increased gun violence.

There was a several million dollar studies of the Columbine shootings and it never mentioned TV at all, or the local propensity to normalize the concept of just everyone having a gun. In Japan people used to carry a special dagger to kill themselves with to avoid shame. It was normal. it was a way of organizing society that worked for them at that time. Now we have Atom Bombs poised to eliminate cities or entire countries if we so desire(and pollute the world into permanent cancer for everyone and every animal). NORMAL is a funny word.

I was born very viscerally into gun culture my dad wwII vet, my toy guns and tanks, I KNEW beyond a doubt that guns were a solution to weakness in the face of BAD GUY problems. (I still have lingering suspicion that perhaps there are bad guys/girls?) ..The "equalizer" it could be called.

I went and saw the Sonoma County Sheriff's collection of pretend need toys such as fighting vehicle, super boat and bomb de-bugging robot and etc I met Gelhous, It was mildly distasteful to me.

To some, he is a hero. MY opinion may not be important. as a phenomena his attitude and propensity I see as a sick distortion, and SCAB on this huge wound we have in an overpopulated rat cage of humans. When Rat cages are overfull they begin to turn on each other.

So GO through the TV channels(what are there like 400 500 now? ) make a list how many show solving problems with guns and how many don't? I do not know if this has been done, but my guess just by checking out toys store shelves etc would be about 86% of all stories out there show violence as a solution or at least a source of Adrenalin rushes, with music to match the narrative. And who does not believe that we could not have bested Hitler without them? BAD GUYS about 1/3 of toys were guns or army when I was a kid now it a little less.

I am ready to put down my gun on the ground and step forward with my hands out at my sides (and probably be shot) with all my opinions go to my finish. ~~~~~~~~
but will that serve the grandchildren and the so-called "Future"? I doubt it. so no solutions here folks just a LOT more questions.

I agree with the girl in the video "I'd take away the guns" but I also agree with "If I had a Rocket Launcher" by Bruce Cockburn no solutions. And I SAW the Sebastopol police pull out automatic weapons once in a crazy late night drunken driver event where he passed me, ran OVER a guys subaru (luckily he was not killed) and flipped his big pickup before he could crawl out of the truck there was a soldier(Seb Police) in full uniform with a automatic weapon "on " him.. and I thought welll, I'd probably do that same thing and felt protected from a nutcase.

now some of the protectors can BE nutcases (and shoot children with toy guns) and we need to and I believe WILL deal with them, and build a lot more memorial parks till we get this right,or at least better.

If I saw those cops at a cafe, I would engage with them and ask about weapons,and how their protocol is for a school shooting or etc? what we should do . They are "PEACE OFFICERS" after all and many of them pride themselves in helping people saving lives and getting cats out of trees.

there was a great sign in a town I lived in years ago.. "If you don't like cops when you are in trouble call a hippy"
whatever man........peace!