Millions of Students Demand "Never Again" to Gun Violence

Over a million students and allies walked out of classes in the U.S., from Maine to Hawaii, and elsewhere in the world on March 14. Ten days later, March 24, hundreds of thousands of defiant marchers flooded the streets in Washington, D.C., and at more than 800 places on every continent except Antarctica. What might they do next?

Many surviving Parkland students are becoming familiar faces in D.C. Politicians hear from them regularly and some respond positively. They have captured the nation’s attention with their soaring speeches and emotional chants at what is being described as “sibling marches.”

They are protesting the killing of 17 students and staff at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida. They gathered on street corners, in downtowns, gyms, football fields, auditoriums, and elsewhere. The first events typically took 17 minutes to honor those who were murdered.

This show of strength reveals a political awakening by youth. “Welcome to the revolution,” said one student. “We need to turn this moment into a movement,” said another, which some call the #Never Again Movement.

Since the 1999 Columbine shooting, 187,000 students have experienced a shooting. “Many are not the same,” added the Washington Post.

Three groups gathered in different cities here in semi-rural Sonoma County. A March for Our Lives group took to the center of our small-town Sebastopol (population 8000) and another at Courthouse Square in Sonoma County’s capital Santa Rosa.

The Love Choir led singing at the Sebastopol action. They wore shirts saying “Peacetown USA.” Their lyrics included the following: “I’m going to lay down my sword and shield. We’re going to study war no more.” A popular chant was “We shall not be moved.” One sign read “Liberty, Not Death for My Grandchildren.”

The town of Sonoma was the site of another rally, in its Plaza. Fourteen students from Sonoma Valley High School traveled to D.C. to join the March 24 action there.

"These young people are stepping
up and speaking so eloquently.
They are changing the country.”
~ Congressman Jared Huffman

“Make safe schools a priority” was the goal of the Santa Rosa gathering. It offered student speakers, opportunities to pre-register to vote, and other options for concerned citizens of all ages to become involved with advocacy.

Signs such as the following were held: “Books Not Bullets!” “Love Kids, Not Guns.” “Send Prayers to the NRA.” “We Adults Have Failed Our Young People.”

One student held a sign bearing 17 blood-red hands and the message “How Many More!” A student wore a t-shirt that read “Young and Powerful.”

POLITICIANS SUPPORT STUDENTS

California Congressman Jared Huffman met with nearly 1000 students and adults the day after the first large march. “There is a lot of evidence right now about the power of young voices,” he said. “Many of us have been beating our heads against the wall of gun reform for years and getting nowhere. These young people are stepping up and speaking so eloquently. They are changing the country.”

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Connecticut) has been meeting regularly with high school age activists. He urges them to dig in for a long fight, “like the Civil Rights and Anti-War movements.”

“This fits in with the history of the country. The way change is made is the bottom up,” said History Professor Nolan Higdon of Cal State East Bay.

Between 1990 and 2004 92 million Americans were born. They represent the largest generation in history, becoming 1/3 of the U.S. population this year. That’s a lot of votes.

“It’s going to look scary to politicians,” said Rebecca Schneid,16, editor of the Parkland student newspaper. The U.S. may be at the beginning of a new, rapidly growing movement. It could grow and change history dramatically.

The New York Times quoted senior Ally Sheehy as saying, “The ‘children’ you pissed off will not forget this in the voting booth. We are a force to be reckoned with.”

Organizers demand tighter background checks on gun purchases and a ban on assault weapons, like the one used in the Florida bloodbath.

A small number of pro-gun demonstrations have also happened, especially in rural areas. Some have chanted “NRA is the only way.” Arguments and scuffles have broken out between the two sides.

Conservative supporters of guns organized smaller, competing rallies this weekend in places that include Helena, Montana, and Salt Lake City. Meanwhile, in a Pennsylvania town each classroom now has a 5-gallon bucket of stones.

Student leaders vowed to continue walkouts April 20th, the anniversary of the Columbine shooting in Colorado. They plan to continue direct actions, register young people to vote, lobby legislators, and even run for office.

Many students walked out of classes in the l960s to protest the American Wars on the People of Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. My generation was a leader in ending those wars, as this generation can lead us to stricter gun laws, and thus fewer school and other mass shootings.

By walking out, today’s students may have initiated a massive movement for change, including more even than the importance of dealing with guns—at a time when the U.S. desperately needs change and new leadership.

We adults have failed to provide safety for our young people.

Okay, where do the numbers [ from Shepherd's post ] come from?

Over a million students and allies walked out of classes, 800 places on every continent except Antarctica.
1) how do "allies" walk out of class? And where are these 800 places, even in Africa, Greenland? Because of a shooting in Florida?

Since the 1999 Columbine shooting, 187,000 students have experienced a shooting.

2) experienced a shooting how? Were they actually in the room, school, or across the state or country and have "experienced a shooting." Being shot at does not equate being in the next state over and having empathy for being shot at.

Fourteen students from Sonoma Valley High School traveled to D.C.
3) Santa Rosa City High, enrolls over 11,000 kids! 14 going to Washington is not a huge number.
(how did they get there, I will address this in #7)

Politicians support students, Huffman said, "...and speaking so eloquently."

4) Yes they are, Hogg saying politicians are the Bit@h of the NRA, and Our Parents don't know how to us a F*cking Democracy is so eloquent.

Between 1990 and 2004 92 million Americans were born.

5) According to the Census Bureau, only 52 million were born in that time frame, 40 million off, BIG number.

Ban on assault weapons, like the one used in the Florida bloodbath.

6) An assault weapon wasn't used in Florida, and bloodbath, really, I think the translation from english to chinese is way different. Look at the 2014 Kunming attack, eight knife-wielding men and woman, 31 civilians and 4 perps dead, 140 injured. That is a bloodbath!

Many students walked out of classes in the l960s to protest the American Wars.

7) and many of them went to Washington, on their own dime, cross country in a VW bus or a old Blue-Bird. Picking up people along the way, that was a movement! Shepherd, I think you said you were part of that movement and would know WAY better then me about it.

However, the 14 in Sonoma had donations, Delta airlines donated three round-trip charters, Robert Kraft ordered the Patriots team jet to fly Stoneman Douglas students to DC, Baltimore mayor paid $100,000 in taxpayer funds for kids to be bused to DC. Nothing like the 1960s

We adults have failed to provide safety for our young people.

8) I have to agree, Men these days don't have the sense of being a father figure to our kids. Look at the single mother rate in America. How can a mom be a mom and dad to their kids when the "baby daddy" isn't around and she has to work two jobs to put a roof over their head and food on the table. How can she teach them right from wrong when she is working her butt off and he isn't there, not because he is in jail, but because he just doesn't care...

and lastly, if you are older then, say, 45, we didn't have "mass shooting" like they do now, what happened?
1966 Texas school shooting, sure, 1968 and 1970 don't count. 1986 is when you start really getting big numbers, again, what happened to society in this time frame?

A large number of firearms, collapse of the American dream, a lack of mental health resources, violent movies, graphic video games, many others,,, yet we only focus on "the bad black rifle."

About the bad black rifle, many of these kids, and adults alike, that talk about gun control, don't know what they are saying, saying "magazine clips" is just silly, when you say you want to ban them, those that know about gun just laugh. When you say "high capacity magazines," should be outlawed and limited to 10 rounds, they laugh, and by the way, the parkland shooter, had 10 round magazines. You say only police should have guns because they are trained, well look at the "Cowards of Broward," AND THEN, look at the shooting the other day in Sacramento. Only cops should have guns, HA!

and finally, Planned Parenthood was a major sponsor of the March for Life. The SAME Planned Parenthood who KILLS OVER 300,000 MOST LIKELY WOULD OF BEEN KIDS EVERY YEAR!

Where is the outrage? end of the story.

The solution is to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

And after we appeal the 2nd, it is so much easier to appeal the 1st. Ask any Jew that was in Germany before WWII.

I have to disagree with Edward on this one, getting rid of the 2nd amendment. Although my family has experienced four gun violence events in a two generational history, people have a right as Americans to own guns for hunting (I'm a vegetarian), and for protecting their homes if someone tries to break-in or harm them in some way. I haven't heard anyone else saying get rid of the 2nd amendment.

Most of us just don't want military type guns that were designed and produced for war, that kill masses of people in a few seconds, to be on our streets, and sold in this country. I will fight for the rights of gun owners, but I want them to be responsible. I don't believe it's responsible to own this type of gun, or have it be available to the public to buy.

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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:

The solution is to repeal the 2nd Amendment.

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>>>And after we appeal the 2nd, it is so much easier to appeal the 1st. Ask any Jew that was in Germany before WWII.

The "slippery slope" argument has a long and honorable lineage. It got us into Vietnam, of course, and has likewise been used to oppose every movement in US history that aims to "promote the general welfare." One could as well have used it to oppose the 13th Amendment outlawing slavery—striking at the very heart of the compromise that allowed passage of the Constitution—with the argument that restricting the right of citizens to own human beings was just the first step in restricting ownership of cattle, and thus obviously a conspiracy by radical vegetarians.

But we're probably already on that slippery slope, which can only be counteracted by striking down all 2nd Amendment incursions that would ban the private ownership of tanks and howitzers—though not certain how Concealed Carry would apply.

Benjamin Franklin once said, “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” It’s an important statement, especially since giving up liberty has an annoying tendency to make us less safe anyway.

Will psychological assessment be required as a prerequisite for purchasing a gun? That is a profession that is not trustworthy; undeserving of respect.

What are the avenues for those that want to move forward with gun control? They are limited. Banning certain types of weapons which are difficult if not impossible to even define? Requiring a psychiatric clearance?

In the past "expanded background checks" was considered a big deal, but many of these massacres are carried out by individuals with clean records, like Stephen Paddock.

Damage, you need to check the Truth-o-meter on those claims that gun control laws allowed the Nazis to carry out Holocaust. Promoted by serial liar Ben Carson, this falsehood is now quoted by gun-toters ad nauseum:

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...son-nazi-guns/

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

And after we appeal the 2nd, it is so much easier to appeal the 1st. Ask any Jew that was in Germany before WWII.

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All guns are not equal. Many of those students would have survived if their wounds were not made by a high velocity weapon and ammunition. If you are shot with a hand gun and it doesn't hit a vital area you have a good chance. It you get hit with high velocity ammunition and it's not in a vital area it is likely the vital area will be destoyed anyway from the impact. This type of weapon should not be in the hands of the general public.

I would like to see the second amenment upheld as is was originally crafted. You can own single shot, black powder flintlocks. Guns that at close quarters were far less reliable than a sword.

This is a helpful response. I oppose those high velocity ammunition weapons. I own a non-lethal pellet gun, which I need on my farm. I support the ownership of those "single shot, black powder flintlocks," which is what the 2nd Amendment is about, not weapons for 21st century wars.

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Posted in reply to the post by Goat Rock Ukulele:

All guns are not equal. ...

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Kitty W, straight from Wikipedia. I honestly never read anything from Ben Carson.

In a 2000 article, author and attorney Stephen Halbrook said that he was presenting "the first scholarly analysis of the use of gun control laws and policies to establish the Hitler regime and to render political opponents and especially German Jews defenseless." In the article, he cites an Adolf Hitler quote: "the most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms." In his 2013 book, Halbrook adds that such victims might have successfully resisted Nazi repression if they had been armed — or better armed.

Gun rights advocates such as Halbrook, Zelman, and National Rifle Association (NRA) leader Wayne LaPierre have proposed that Nazi Party policies and laws were an enabling factor in the Holocaust, that prevented its victims from implementing an effective resistance. Associate professor of criminal justice Dyan McGuire wrote in his 2011 book: "It is frequently argued that these laws, which resulted in the confiscation of weapons not belonging to supporters of the Nazis, rendered the Jews and other disfavored groups like the Gypsies, homosexuals, Poles, and their potential allies defenseless and set the stage for the slaughter of the Holocaust that followed."

And to Goat Rock, you need to give up driving your Prius and get a horse and buggy. Kill your power, destroy your phone, reap what you sow.

And like I said earlier, you should know a little bit about what you are talking about. It’s not just about velocity, bullet type, weight, diameter, velocity, barrel length all play a factor. Have you seen what a handgun can do? I have, up close, and very personal. Had my buddy die in my arms that day is a stupid country. For no good reason.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

Kitty W, straight from Wikipedia....

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The article you are quoting is Nazi gun control argument. You conveniently left out its introduction:

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Posted in reply to the post by wikipedia:

The Nazi gun control argument is an argument which claims that gun regulations in the Third Reich rendered victims of the Holocaust weaker to such an extent that they could have more effectively resisted oppression if they had been armed or better armed.^[1][2] Various mainstream sources describe the theory as historically "dubious",^[3] "questionable",^[4]"preposterous,"^[5] "tendentious",^[2] and "problematic".^[1]

This theory is prevalent and primarily used within U.S. gun politics. Questions about its validity, and about the motives behind its inception, have been raised by scholars. Proponents in the United States have used it as part of a "security against tyranny" argument, while opponents have referred to it as a form of Reductio ad Hitlerum.^[6]

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Daniel Irvin Rather Jr. (born 1931) is an American journalist and the former news anchor for the CBS Evening News. He currently anchors a newscast called The News with Dan Rather at The Young Turks. Rather was anchor of the CBS Evening News for 24 years, from 1981 to 2005. He also contributed to CBS's 60 Minutes. Rather left CBS in 2005 after 44 years.

When Dan Rather speaks, people listen, and with good reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hy5lBCvq_4

Yes, I did, on purpose Barry. I didn’t think the beginning was pertnant because it is a theory. I didn’t include this either:
In it, they compared the German gun laws of 1928 and 1938, and the U.S. Congressional hearings for what became the Gun Control Act of 1968. Thanks for adding the hyperlink.

Thank you for reading & for doing the actual research on the numbers/facts in this post from Shepherd. His post is an emotionally driven rant/script from MSM (mainstream media) which does little to provide dialogue/discussion regarding what is actually going on with these "school" shootings nationwide over the past few years.

What is now being divulged is that most of these school kids are either paid crisis actors or they were provided funds by several sources invested in furthering this MSM narrative and thus not being involved in organizing these events.

Thank you for pointing to the erratic & emotionally driven disinformation in his post.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

Okay, where do the numbers [ from Shepherd's post ] come from?
...

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Intelligent, passionate, organized, determined, eloquent, humorous, shrewd, anguished, defiant, and articulate high school and elementary school students have radically changed the terms of America’s longstanding quarrel over guns. They make their appeals with both tear-streaked faces and raised fists.

“Guns don’t kill people. People kill people,” is the slogan of the National Rifle Association (NRA). “Actually, Guns Do Kill People” read a sign at the March 24 Washington, D.C. march, attended by over 800,000 people. Protests took place at over 390 of the nation’s 435 congressional districts.

“Our current approach to firearms undercuts the rights of the unarmed far more than any restrictions would ever impinge on the rights of gun owners,” writes Washington Post columnist E.J. Dionne.

“Protect kids, not the NRA” read a forest of handmade signs at the March 24 march in Santa Rosa, California. “Give Teachers Raises, Not Guns” read others. “Welcome to the revolution,” Parkland student Cameron Kasky said, which drew raucous cheers.

Santa Rosa’s daily Press Democrat describes the march as “the parents’ turn—as well as that of grandparents, neighbors, teachers, siblings, and hundreds of thousands of other supporters—to join them in the largest nation-wide youth-led protest since the Vietnam War era.”

A new Associated Press poll shows that 69% of Americans think gun laws need to be strengthened. 90% support universal background checks, which would have saved hundreds of lives. The tide has already changed and may change even more.

“Our Voices are Louder than Guns” and “Kids Lives Matter” were among the signs at the recent Santa Rosa march. “This is what democracy looks like,” said Santa Rosa Mayor Chris Coursey. These students are coming out “to tell us what to do to make things right in this country,” he added.

As to the call to arm teachers, “You don’t solve the gun problem with more guns,” is 13-year-old Madeline Rudell’s response to those asking for teachers to be armed.

“We’re done hiding,” was a main message at the many March 24 rallies. This is likely to play a major role in the 2018 mid-term elections, which are only slightly more than six months away.

“Teachers Support Student Marchers,” headlines a recent Washington Post story. It reports that “Jason Muhammad has buried 13 students in seven years.” He remembers them all. “It’s the worst thing in the world,” he added. Many teachers have been standing by their students.

In Rome protestors jammed the sidewalk across from the U.S. Embassy with chants such as “Hey, hey, ho, ho, the NRA has to go.” In Berlin, hundreds gathered near the U.S. Embassy with signs such as “Arms Should Be for Hugging,” “Bullets Aren’t School Supplies,” and “Waffles Instead of Weapons.”

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Posted in reply to the post by Arleez:

...What is now being divulged is that most of these school kids are either paid crisis actors or they were provided funds by several sources invested in furthering this MSM narrative and thus not being involved in organizing these events.

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The "paid crisis actor" false proposition is was debunked by factcheck.org here. It is further address by a Washington Post article updated today that goes further into depth. I suggest you read it:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...7_15-17-02.png
How the Parkland teens became villains on the right-wing Internet

Clearly, they were "provided funds". Do you think real high school students that they are could finance a national rally with 800,000? However, it was the students themselves that stood on the stage to address the nation, echoing similar demands as they expressed soon after the tragedy.

Yeah I can not agree on the crisis actor thing. I believe it is real emotion. Not actors.

I'm sure the gun industry would love the gun-control movement to be funded from kids' weekly allowances, which would barely rent one porta-potty on the Washington Mall. Thank heaven there are some people with money and with organizing experience to help make this youth-inspired protest effective. But if we're going to take our "startling revelations" from trolls, Fox, Breitbart, et al, we should probably ask who's funding the NRA? Kids with BB guns? Constitutional scholars? Rabbit hunters? Hard to imagine that kinda money just swells up from hoi poloi. It's a TRADE ASSOCIATION, friends: it's funded by a lucrative industry. Bizarre that they're spreading the word that their opponents are being corrupted by filthy lucre: guess it's only kosher if you're spending big bucks to spend bigger.

But I'm a bit nonplussed to get "Gratitudes" on my last post from Arleez and Damage, since I thought I was opposing their position. I guess they're either grateful for any attention at all or else I write very foggy prose. I'd better check my Chicago Manual of Style.

We can have opposing opinions and I can still appreciate your thoughtful dialogue.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

And after we appeal the 2nd, it is so much easier to appeal the 1st. Ask any Jew that was in Germany before WWII.

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right, otherwise they would have been able to shoot it out with the police and their neighbors. Kristallnacht would have been a bloodbath for those skinheads... and the rest of the population would have risen along with them to throw out the Nazis.

I'm sure that'll happen here someday, when those BLM nazis try to shut down our grazing rights -- because we're armed!.

"Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens is calling for the repeal of the Second Amendment to allow for significant gun control legislation. The 97-year-old Stevens wrote in an op-ed for The New York Times on Tuesday suggesting a repeal would weaken the National Rifle Association's ability to "block constructive gun control legislation" and be a more "effective and more lasting reform."

"Concern that a national standing army might pose a threat to the security of the separate states led to the adoption of that amendment, which provides that "a well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Today that concern is a relic of the 18th century," wrote Stevens. In his essay, the former justice embraced legislation that would ban semiautomatic weapons, increase the minimum age for buying a gun from 18 to 21 years old, and establish a "more comprehensive" background check system on all purchases of firearms."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31GkjgInBs

Read more here by clicking this link.

Well at least the discussion has turned serious: to repeal the 2nd Amendment or not repeal it.

When you listen to Mike Thompson on this issue trying to ascertain what he would like done to address this problem, he says it's the evil Trump administration. The evil Trump administration has cut funding for mental health services.

One should at least have something substantive to offer, especially if purporting to be an important political leader.

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...sure that'll happen here someday, when those BLM nazis try to shut down our grazing rights -- because we're armed!.

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There was a good PBS Frontline on that btw, if anyone cares to watch it.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/a...r-bunkerville/

From the show -

It was just before noon on a Saturday in April when the armed men started taking up positions in the high desert sun.
Kitted out in camouflage and tactical gear, they had driven hundreds of miles across the country to make a stand in a dry stretch of scrubland in southeastern Nevada.
Men calling themselves Oath Keepers had come from Arizona and New Hampshire, joining a militia group from Montana, Operation Mutual Aid; and members of the Three Percenters from Idaho and Oregon. This was the first time these self-styled “patriots” had come together in one place, to confront what they all believed was the growing tyranny of the federal government.
Brandon Rapolla, a Marine veteran from Oregon, was one of them. “I’m a devout Christian,” he said. “I prayed upon it very heavily. And within less than a 24-hour period, I got my gear ready and headed down there.”
They had come to defend Cliven Bundy, a longtime Nevada rancher who had declared a “range war” against the federal government. Bundy’s cattle had grazed freely across public lands near the town of Bunkerville for more than 20 years, in defiance of orders from the federal Bureau of Land Management. Bundy had ignored penalty fees and three court orders requiring him to remove the animals. Now, the bureau had begun impounding the cattle to auction them off.
The bureau had expected resistance from Cliven and his sons, who had vowed to defend a livelihood their family had maintained for generations. They even thought there might be protests from local friends and family.
“What we really did not anticipate is hundreds of militia members, many of them armed, coming from around the country,” said Steve Ellis, then the BLM’s deputy director of operations, who was watching the situation unfold from his office in Washington, D.C.
The standoff had been coming to a head for several days, and by that Saturday morning, the BLM estimated, hundreds of militia and other supporters had gathered — some on horseback, many of them armed. They vastly outnumbered the federal agents on the scene.
It was the largest gathering of militia anyone had seen in decades, and it sent shockwaves through the land management agency. Like most of his colleagues at the BLM, Ellis, a soft-spoken forester from the midwest, spent his time thinking about how best to manage public lands, not armed standoffs. Now, some of his officers in Nevada were worried they might never see their families again.

Hey, when you follow the money, big donations to the NRA are coming from Russia. What a surprise.

Reported by NPR, Russians are pumping money into the NRA, essentially -- "amplifying controversial social issues. Investigators have expressed concern about Russian links to the NRA, one of the most politically polarizing organizations in the U.S."

YES. Polarizing. Russian meddling. What a surprise.

Read the rest of the story here:

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/01/59007..._medium=social

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Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:

I'm sure the gun industry would love the gun-control movement to be funded from kids' weekly allowances, which would barely rent one porta-potty on the Washington Mall. .

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I’m glad to see this happening;it gives me faith in the future generations. Even though the marches may not have direct impact on most of the lawmakers, who have “friends with benefits”. It gives voice to our most vulnerable population, the children. And maybe, it will shift their priorities from meaningless stuff to life itself. A child who suffers the death of a friend or relative from gun violence will be forever changed. A teacher who stands at the funerals of their students will also be impacted. One teacher said he'd buried 13 students!

These marches give a sense of power to combat the feelings of loss and hopelessness from seeing and knowing that children are being killed at schools, where they expected to be safe.

As a grandmother, I wonder if my grand children will be among those gunned down in the future, as vulnerable, easy targets. How many of us have ever had those thoughts?

I’m 75, and have imagined how I would feel going to school, after all these massacres. I would be fearful, and being afraid would affect my ability to learn. In addition to that, I would feel depressed and powerless. This creates emotional issues that some health practitioners would try to remedy with drugs, which would create a whole level of new problems.

I don’t know what the answers are beyond what’s been proposed already, but kids (and teachers) have a new awareness of their vulnerability, and I’m hoping that this insight will be used to “see” when a student is showing signs of imbalance. Parents, guardians and teachers who are aware of an animal abusing child need to pay attention, since this is commonly where human abuse has it’s roots.

I need to read more about the commonality of the shooters, because the “shooters are the source.” What can be done for these fringe students, before they resort to their weapon of choice?

There is an interesting article about gun violence in the March issue of Scientific American.
Why are White Men Stockpiling Guns by Jeremy Adam Smith

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ckpiling-guns/

Wow - here is a very eye-opening analysis.

This is a viewpoint I haven't previously heard and find it interesting. While I make absolutely no claim to be a Constitution scholar, perhaps we need to really study what the 2nd Amendment really says.

There may be a big surprise in store. This article certainly raised the ire of gun owners as seen in the comments section. But perhaps it's zeroing in on something they would rather keep buried and misinterpreted. The commenters are mostly full of bile and anger and devoid of scholarly discussion, that's for sure.


Opinion: What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Published: June 18, 2016 9:46 a.m. ET

The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun
By BrettArends

Alexander Hamilton said a “well-regulated militia” would help safeguard the freedom of the new republic because it would make the creation of a professional, mercenary army “unnecessary.”

Can we please stop pretending that the Second Amendment contains an unfettered right for everyone to buy a gun? It doesn’t, and it never has. The claims made by the small number of extremists, before and after the Orlando, Fla., massacre, are based on a deliberate lie.

The Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution doesn’t just say Congress shall not infringe the right to “keep and bear arms.” It specifically says that right exists in order to maintain “a well-regulated militia.” Even the late conservative Supreme Court Associate Justice Antonin Scalia admitted those words weren’t in there by accident. Oh, and the Constitution doesn’t just say a “militia.” It says a “well-regulated” militia.

What did the Founding Fathers mean by that? We don’t have to guess because they told us. In Federalist No. 29 of the Federalist Papers, Alexander Hamilton explained at great length precisely what a “well-regulated militia” was, why the Founding Fathers thought we needed one, and why they wanted to protect it from being disarmed by the federal government.

The Second Amendment is an instrument of government. It’s not about hunting or gun collecting or carrying your pistol into the saloon.

And there’s a reason absolutely no gun extremist will ever direct you to that 1788 essay because it blows their baloney into a million pieces.

A “well-regulated militia” didn’t mean guys who read Soldier of Fortune magazine running around in the woods with AK-47s and warpaint on their faces. It basically meant what today we call the National Guard.

READ the rest here:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/wh...06-14?mod=fark

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

Wow - here is a very eye-opening analysis.

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Opinion: What America’s gun fanatics won’t tell you
Published: June 18, 2016 9:46 a.m. ET

The Second Amendment doesn’t give you the right to own a gun
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https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...8_13-10-34.png

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court found in the 2008 case "District of Columbia v. Heller " that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm.

For a fascinating discussion about how this case came to be, how it was decided, including how the NRA came to be in its present form, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND Radiolab's More Perfect podcast on this which can be found here.

I don't entirely disagree with the decision, but there needs to be more latitude given to what types of firearms are allowed and other regulations. I think to advocate for the repeal of the 2nd amendment is not helpful, won't be successful, and may actually hurt the cause. What would be better, is to appoint another liberal justice and then bring a case back to the supremes that tests the type of restrictions that are allowed.

Radiolab and More Perfect are among my favorite podcasts and I suggest you check them out!

'Paid crisis actors'?! ' Provided funds'?? Quotation marks around 'school'??? Is this response a sick joke or is the writer actually serious? :hmmm:

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Posted in reply to the post by Arleez:

Thank you for reading & for doing the actual research on the numbers/facts in this post from Shepherd. His post is an emotionally driven rant/script from MSM (mainstream media) which does little to provide dialogue/discussion regarding what is actually going on with these "school" shootings nationwide over the past few years.

What is now being divulged is that most of these school kids are either paid crisis actors or they were provided funds by several sources invested in furthering this MSM narrative and thus not being involved in organizing these events.

Thank you for pointing to the erratic & emotionally driven disinformation in his post.

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i can't support your view. feel like i need to weigh in on that. Shepherd's piece is not a rant in anyway, from my vantage point. you are entitled to yours, respectfully. i just feel a strong need to vote for Shepherd's views and disagree with yours. with all due respect~

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Posted in reply to the post by Arleez:

Thank you for reading & for doing the actual research...

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This revealing article points to some things that some of us might have guessed. The unfortunate part is that we may know the "why", but there's no "way" out of this activity that has it's basis in fear.

Our present administration is ramping up fear across the board, under the banner of making America great again, so we may expect to see more less educated white men relying on guns to protect their loved ones,.....and their egos.

But ultimately it seems that these very guns are the ones that maim their families, and in turn are used on themselves.

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Posted in reply to the post by viajera:

There is an interesting article about gun violence in the March issue of Scientific American.
Why are White Men Stockpiling Guns by Jeremy Adam Smith

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...ckpiling-guns/

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YES! I have long been exasperated by the fact that even staunch gun control advocates seldom bring up that first phrase of the second amendment, thus allowing gun fanatics to bully everybody around. That "well-regulated militia" phrase clearly shows that the intent of the framers was specifically to prevent local citizen militias from being disarmed by a more powerful national army, and in the eighteenth century these "militias" consisted of individual citizens with single-shot rifles who could be rallied in the case of an invasion by the British army.

Our founding fathers would be spinning in their graves if they could hear that some fanatics were waving the second amendment around to support their conviction that they should have an unfettered right to own machine guns and bazookas, and perhaps even form private armies to fight the federal government!

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

Wow - here is a very eye-opening analysis.

...

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Well this thread won’t die, maybe we can archive it, anyway...

I guess the shooting yesterday by that leftist kook, female, Iranian muslim, you tuber just blows the angry white, male thing out the water!

And to occihoff, lookup the definition of
mi·li·tia, a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.

And like I’ve said before, you should know something about the subject. Sorry to inform you but Bazookas are not guns.

And as far as the single shot rifle, we have come a long way. you need to give up driving your Prius and get a horse and buggy. Kill your power, destroy your phone, reap what you sow.

I just don't get the point you, Damage, are trying to make here. First, not sure where the "leftist kook" comment came from--what exactly made her a "leftist kook" in your eyes? I heard she was a vegetarian and an animal advocate. Is that what you mean by "leftist kook", or is there something else that would fit this definition for you? Also, not sure why you mentioned that she was a "female" and not "the angry white male thing". Once again, not sure what you are talking about. Seems like all these mass shootings/bombings/etc., have been done by a variety of different people, from different backgrounds, religions, ages, and genders, and for different reasons. I just don't get the intensity of your comments here. Please clarify before the archiving begins... thanks.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

Well this thread won’t die, maybe we can archive it, anyway...

I guess the shooting yesterday by that leftist kook, female, Iranian muslim, you tuber just blows the angry white, male thing out the water!...

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Leftist-radical, reforming, or socialist
Kook-crazy or eccentric person

Well she definitely wasn’t a right winger, they love their steaks, hamburgers, hotdogs and their Bible and Pocket Constitution too!

Well she owned a gun you say? Well even
Dianne Feinstein owns a gun and had a concealed weapon permit.

And she was a female. But we could maybe argue that point, have you looked at her videos? She moved like she was from Saturn or Jupiter maybe!!!

And please remember, I stayed at a Holiday inn express. I’m an expert in my field of study.

Damage, I truly love your humor. I have been laughing for the last 5 minutes, rereading your post, a much needed relief, so thanks. By the way, how does a man from Saturn or Jupiter move, as opposed to the women?

P.S. Maybe you've answered this before and I missed it, but what happened at that Holiday Inn Express that made you an expert in your field, and what is your field?

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

... She moved like she was from Saturn or Jupiter maybe!!!

And please remember, I stayed at a Holiday inn express. I’m an expert in my field of study.

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Posted in reply to the post by cw707:

P.S. Maybe you've answered this before and I missed it, but what happened at that Holiday Inn Express that made you an expert in your field, and what is your field?

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that's an old meme, from before the term was hijacked by Dawkins and then the interweb denizens.

I don't see why there's such glee that finally, someone other than a white man ran amok with a gun.

If you ever get the chance watch Mars Attacks, 1996. Explains everything you could ever know about aliens, tactical warfare, and how to properly reheat food.

As far as the Holiday Inn, well let’s just say you can confuse Las Vegas Metro Vice Squad with a pound of oregano and a kilo of brown sugar.
Please don’t ever take me too serious, Imma SARCASM EXPERT.

There is no “glee” that people are dead, no matter what weapon was used.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

If you ever get the chance watch Mars Attacks, 1996. Explains everything you could ever know about aliens, tactical warfare, and how to properly reheat food.

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the trading cards were better than the movie. OT, but we're reaching the end of this one, aren't we?

Thank you for your scholarly input!

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Posted in reply to the post by Damage:

Well this thread won’t die, maybe we can archive it, anyway...

I guess the shooting yesterday by that leftist kook, female, Iranian muslim, you tuber just blows the angry white, male thing out the water!

And to occihoff, lookup the definition of
mi·li·tia, a military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.
a military force that engages in rebel or terrorist activities, typically in opposition to a regular army.
all able-bodied civilians eligible by law for military service.

And like I’ve said before, you should know something about the subject. Sorry to inform you but Bazookas are not guns.

And as far as the single shot rifle, we have come a long way. you need to give up driving your Prius and get a horse and buggy. Kill your power, destroy your phone, reap what you sow.

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In my humble opinion the only persons who should be allowed to own semi automatic rifles are those who are guarding un-permitted Weed Farms. Everyone else should be unarmed.