Project Proposal - Downtown Sebastopol Hotel

Anyone familiar with this? If so how & when did you hear about it?
What are your feelings about the project – Here are some details:

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Location:
Diamond Lumberyard Site & Sebastopol Tractor Co Store
6824, 6826 & 6828 Depot Street and 215 & 225 Brown Street

Project:
66 room hotel with multiple buildings ranging from 2 to 4 stories
Conversion of Brown Street to one-way, southbound
Parking for 122 vehicles
Zoning Amendment required for increased Structure Height
Variance needed for 66 rooms

Additional Building Uses:
Retail space, restaurant, bar, lounge, wellness center, private gardens,
meeting rooms, public courtyard, various other hotel amenities

Notice of Intent:
Initial Study & Mitigated Negative Declaration has been completed
Public Review Period began August 11, 2016 and ends at 5pm September 12, 2016

A demolition permit has been pulled and is pending approval
A use permit application for a 66 room variance has been filed and is pending approval

Your thoughts?.........
Thank you

City council has been talking about this for years. The tractor store was supposed to be open for another month but the owner died a few weeks ago (probably from stress and a lack of support from the city, IMO).
Are you new to Sebastopol? It might behoove you to attend some city council meetings or at least check out the city's website from time to time.

Here's another one. And another.
And from this very forum.

We are losing Sebastopol and Sonoma County to wealthy tourists. In addition to this hotel, the nearby Barlow may also soon have a hotel. Add those two developments to the giant CVS being constructed, and Sebastopol downtown will be a traffic mess with the intersection of Highways 12 and 116, which some describe as the most heavily trafficked intersection in Sonoma County. In with the onslaught of wealthy tourists, out with the locals, especially younger people, who can no longer afford to buy or even rent houses.

Okay, maybe a bit hyperbolic, but two years is still "years"... :wink: Although that slice of property has been on the city's radar for development since the days of the NEAP.

City council had meetings with Basso in '14 leading up to the creation of the pamphlet I linked to earlier. It was a surreal moment watching Ron Basso and Sarah Gurney metaphorically hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" together at a city council meeting when they celebrated the great collaboration. I'm sure if I took an hour or so I could find it on the city's website, but I'm not really that interested in digging for it while I'm still employed.

And yes, it was James Saxon. He had just turned 50. The city could have been way nicer to him at least, if not find a way to help him relocate, but it's all about making Sebastopol a tourist destination without really making it a tourist destination and maintaining the fantasy Sebastopol that only exists in the minds of people who would never be caught dead in the Old Main Street Saloon.

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Posted in reply to the post by sealwatcher:

Is this the person you referred to earlier who just died?...

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Developers make money, a city park would have been nice over private gardens, and who's listening to me. SerpentDove

Dick and sealwatcher are listening.

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Posted in reply to the post by SerpentDove:

Developers make money, a city park would have been nice over private gardens, and who's listening to me. SerpentDove

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Anyone familiar with this? Apparently not, or perhaps few care enough to comment..... thank you to those who did. Interestingly, the small handful of folks who spoke up don't appear to be in favor of the proposed hotel project. The opposition was expected but much to my surprise I thought the tally of displeased and vocal Sebastopolians would be greater. Last I heard we were a town touting our sustainable, environmentally friendly, support-local-everything community. So why is this proposal for a 66 room hotel, located at one of our more highly congested downtown traffic areas not much of a concern? Personally I don't have a problem with appropriate development that speaks to and responds to the needs and desires of our community. I do however question the merits of this project in regard to those fundamental elements.

How the project was conceived and how our city council and city planners worked, with what appeared to be great effort and city resources, to assist Mr. Basso in finding a buyer for his $3 million private property sale are just some of several factors I find disturbing. In November 2012 the city reached out to AIA (American Institute of Architects) requesting assistance from a Sustainable Design Assessment Team (SDAT) to address key issues facing our community – land use, urban design, connectivity, sustainable design and transportation management. In May 2013 the SDAT team began the process. To study the community and its concerns they worked with city officials, community leaders, non-profits, technical experts and local citizens. When all was said and done a 98 page report was submitted.

The SDAT team focuses on the importance of developing sustainable communities for a sustainable future. The SDAT principle is that “sustainability should be a lens through which we view every human settlement challenge.” It involves “balancing and combining three equally important goals: Environment, Equity (social equity, community, public health and education) and Economy. Leave out any of these three goals, and it is not sustainability.” “Economic development is critical, but economic activity that consumes our environment and the very things we all embrace is not sustainable.”

So I beg the question – how is a 66 room hotel, a business for which the primary function is to provide short term accommodations to travelers passing through town having arrived via oil based transport, consistent with the principles of the Sustainable Design Assessment Team that our city reached out to for design assistance? Their report did not suggest moving toward a tourist based economy by providing a luxury hotel. Instead, for that very location, their report suggested a mixed use project with residential units, a treed arcade and market-viable public amenities. The community responses quoted in their report were those from stakeholders, teens and third graders all evoking the fundamental theme of wanting Sebastopol to be the town they call home. Kids wanting more places to hang out and teens seeking safer streets and some place to return to after college. The adults spoke of wanting Sebastopol to “stay a working class community”. These were the voices of our residents during the “community outreach & feedback” process. I didn't hear any of those voices asking for a service-industry tourist-based economy and the increased traffic congestion that inevitably comes with a hotel. Nonetheless in June of 2014 there was a city sponsored meeting with unidentified organizers preparing a presentation to City Council for the development of “a brochure outlining key parameters” to be considered for the Diamond Lumberyard redevelopment plan. The notes from that meeting specifically identify a hotel. Was it just a coincidence that the out-of-town mega hotel developer happened to bite on the non-specific January 2015 developer invite brochure?

Supporters and key players of this project keep telling us that this is what we need and what the community wants. Unfortunately I have not seen the evidence to support these assertions. Certainly the annual increase of 20,000 to 25,000 tourists roaming through our town, driving on our already ill-repaired roads, bustling back and forth on vineyard tours and wine tastings will generate increased city revenues. But is the price we will pay with our newly compromised quality of life worth it?

To recap, it amazes me that there seems to be so little interest &/or concern on this particular community network board for this proposed project. Perhaps I'm the lone ranger here and the potential gentrification that looms in the shadows with the focus on tourism is just what the go-local, environmentally conscientious doctor ordered. If so I will stand down and accept the majority position on this subject. However if I'm not alone then I would appreciate hearing from folks about this. There is a City Council Public Hearing scheduled for September 27, 6pm at the Youth Annex on the pending status of this hotel. The out-of-town developer has submitted an application for a zoning variance which has not yet been approved. Apparently Sebastopol has a 50 room limit. The developer stated at his January 2016 public forum that if they do not get the 66 room variance they will not move forward with the project. He said, “the numbers just don't work”. Unless City Council intends on approving the variance regardless of public sentiment this is not a done deal.

Do we want this? If not - Stand up, speak out! Do we organize or sit down and quietly watch our town get sold to the highest bidders?

Wow Rustie! You are certainly not alone in your concern with this project. I really appreciate your thoughtful post.

Rustie, as you suggest and I agree with wholeheartedly, Sebastopol should be deliberate and proactive about sustainable economic development that is inclusive and equitable and doesn't leave more of us behind. As a resident of Sebastopol I am concerned that Sebastopol is considering this 66 room boutique hotel that will likely increase the desirability of Sebastopol, create more low paying jobs for people who won't be able to afford to live here and lead to an increase in the cost of housing while at the same time there are no substantial affordable housing projects in the pipeline. While Sebastopol is being proactive about bolstering tourism for out of towners Sebastopol does not seem to be deliberate about bolstering housing opportunities for those of us who are trying to continue to live here and power the local economy. These these seem to be mismatched priorities.

I'd encourage anyone who is concerned for any of the reasons I or Rustie mentioned or any others to attend the Public Hearing scheduled for September 27, 6pm at the Youth Annex on the pending status of this hotel.

I hope to see you there!
Jacob

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Posted in reply to the post by Rustie:

Anyone familiar with this? Apparently not, or perhaps few care enough to comment..... ...

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Jacob, Rustie, & others,
I am also alarmed by this potential tourist trap of a hotel. I cannot attend the Sept. 27 meeting, as it is the same Tues. as our monthly Grange potluck.

I would invite you to consider doing 2 things: come to the 9/28 Seb. Grange City Council candidates forum, where all 4 candidates will be on the stage. We have prepared a list of questions, including one on the hotel. When participants arrive, they will be given cards to propose questions. If many people write questions related to the hotel, it is more likely to be posed earlier. If you have any handouts, you can pass them out as people enter the hall. If you come early and/or stay late, you can converse with people about this issue. I will be opening the gate at 5 p.m. and people can come at whatever point they want to. We expect a full house, so coming early would be a good idea.

I also hope that detailed reports of the hotel meeting will be posted on Wacco by many people.

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Posted in reply to the post by jerichsalud:

Wow Rustie! You are certainly not alone in your concern with this project....

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By the way, I believe the meeting is at 7 p.m. not 6pm, Sept. 27, at the Sebastopol Community Cultural Center, Youth Annex, 425 Morris St.

Project information is available online here and in hard copy at City Hall and at the adjacent Sebastopol Regional Library, 7140 Bodega Ave.

I looked at the developer's website and their properties. Nice. Elegant. In keeping with the local flavor. Not at all "tourist traps."

I read the notice on the photo. The complex would include "artist/maker" studios as well as retail. Nice. Keeping with the local flavor and providing much-needed studio space for creative types.

Thinking about the downtown merchants, I imagine they could use the boost in business that such a property would bring.

Perhaps if there were more boutique hotels, there would be more affordable housing. After all, a great number of the cottages, in-law units and spare rooms in the West County area have been taken off the rental market and are now on Airbnb.

I imagine the range of jobs -- sorely needed in this area -- at the hotel would offer a range of salaries. Not just minimum wage, for sure.

As far as traffic, assuming if the hotel was full to capacity and each room represented a car -- I don't think that 66 additional cars would add a tremendous burden to the thousands of cars that pass through downtown every day. Sadly, arriving in town via oil-based transport is a current reality. I personally don't walk miles to town.

Again, looking at the developer's website, they state the goal of the proposed design "will seek to be the missing connection between the historic core of downtown Sebastopol and the newer Barlow project area to the east by filling a gap in active uses and creating an improved, attractive, and continuous pedestrian realm, including wider sidewalks and publicly accessible passages through the hotel grounds. The redevelopment of this long underutilized downtown parcel will help accomplish this long-standing community goal."

Seems like linking downtown to the Barlow with continuous pedestrian access would help fulfill the desire for "Kids wanting more places to hang out and teens seeking safer streets."

Just saying.

Edit: I guess I was uninformed about the developer.

Reminder: Next Tues., Sept. 27, 7 p.m., this proposed hotel will be reviewed by the Sebastopol Planning Commission, meeting at the Youth Annex, 425 Morris.

More information from the Core Project about the proposed hotel follows:

The Core Project would like to let you know about another opportunity to make your voice heard about a proposed downtown development project. Piazza Hospitality Group is proposing a 66 room hotel, plus restaurant, retail, and artist workshops on the site of the Sebastopol Tractor Company, the former Diamond Lumber Yard, on Petaluma Avenue across from the plaza.

This was a site identified in the SDAT Report as an opportunity site to create a mixed-use project that could provide a stronger urban edge to frame the east side of the plaza. The SDAT also recommended the city undertake a marketing effort to attract developers to underutilized properties in downtown. The City Council conducted a public workshop to elicit ideas from the community for this specific site in June of 2014. The event attracted many people who brought forward a variety of ideas for the site.

A hotel was one of the uses identified at that meeting. Subsequently, the city put together marketing materials to attract a developer. The proposed developer has held several public meetings over the past year to elicit more feedback from the community which The Core Project helped publicize.

Now a formal application has come forward for a use permit and design review, so this is an additional opportunity to make your voice heard. The Planning Commission will review the use permit next Tuesday (Sept. 27), at 7:00 at the Youth Annex. The application may be viewed on the city’s website. We hope to see you there. If you have additional questions, please call Circe Sher of Piazza Hospitality at: 707-431-0414. If you are unable to attend Tuesday's meeting, but would like to submit your thoughts, letters can be sent to the City Planning Director, Kenyon Webster [email protected].

Jacob,

Thank you for the time correction on the September 27 Public Hearing at the Youth Annex – 7pm

This public hearing, as Shepherd noted, is a Planning Commission hearing not a City Council hearing. Currently the Sebastopol Hotel is the only agenda item scheduled for that date. The city staff report will be making a recommendation to approve the project and grant the use permit application. After public comment the commission will vote and as it stands now they will surely vote to approve.

The use permit application is for a 66 room hotel with two code amendment requests. One is for a four story structure, 50 feet tall. Currently that property is zoned for nothing greater than three stories, 40 feet tall. In addition to the height amendment the developer is asking for a parking variance. This includes a request for valet parking and an increase in the number of parking spaces for hotel guests by decreasing the size of each space. In short, they want to utilize valet parking to enable them to cram excess cars on their lot in much smaller spaces.

It is only the two code amendment requests that need to come before City Council for final approval. The use permit may be approved by the commission without oversight by City Council. As a result of the developer's comments that he would not move forward with the hotel if his 66 room variance was not approved I was mistakenly under the impression that the zoning variance was for the number of rooms, but this is not the case. The fact is that a hotel use permit application submitted for 49 rooms or less goes to the Design Review Board, 50 rooms or more it goes to the Planning Commission for approval. At present Sebastopol has no limit on how large a potential hotel can or can not be. Functionally this means that short of practical limits or potential impacts the 66 rooms is not a sticking point.

An independent traffic engineering firm, chosen by the city, has already completed their analysis and filed their report regarding this project. They have deemed that this project will have no adverse affects to our traffic &/or parking. Our planning department, and I suspect our city council as well, believe that sufficient public outreach has been satisfied. According to all the stakeholders in this project, which would be our city council, our city planners (they've put a lot of energy into this), and the out-of-town developer, it is believed that the hotel proposal has ample support from the community.

Here's what I know about the community outreach meetings that I've attended regarding this proposal. The turnout has been between 50-75 people. That count includes our city council members in attendance as well as the developer's staff and associates. The faces have been the same with the overwhelming majority of folks being merchants, restaurateurs, and makers. I can't help but wonder how much due diligence was put forth to ensure not only a higher turnout at these “outreach events” but also a more diverse representation of our resident community members.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse and in truth there has been very little discourse on this post. Perhaps that's because this is not in issue for most people. That having been said there has been some response which appears to be predominantly against the hotel.

If there truly is a significant number of people in opposition to this project then it is my humble opinion that we would need to organize and show up in mass at the September 27 Planning Commission hearing. If we can demonstrate by numbers that this is not the “will of the people” then possibly the Commission will rethink their position and at the very least postpone the vote.

On the other hand, If at that meeting the Commission votes to grant the use permit I suspect it will be a done deal from that point forward. City council and our planning director have been working on this project since at least 2014, they are poised and eager to push this through.

If there's interest I will volunteer to help organize (petitions, letters, emails and most important – warm bodies at the Commission hearing). There's not a lot of time so if there are folks out there interested we should jump on this sooner than later. Either way, with or without a large contingent of opposition voices I will be in attendance on Sept 27 to express and put on record my concerns and disapproval of the project and the questionable process that brought it to our town.

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Posted in reply to the post by jerichsalud:

By the way, I believe the meeting is at 7 p.m. not 6pm, Sept. 27, at the Sebastopol Community Cultural Center, Youth Annex, 425 Morris St.

Project information is available online here and in hard copy at City Hall and at the adjacent Sebastopol Regional Library, 7140 Bodega Ave.

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Before taking a position on this hotel project I suggest you check out the developer's website.

Sonoma West also did a good article on it.

I support the project.

Here's the description from the developer's website:

The proposed project at 6828 Depot Street will be a small, design-oriented boutique hotel with 66 rooms. The hotel will operate 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, year-round. The Hotel will also include a lobby and reception area, retail, artist/maker studios, restaurant, bar, lounge, wellness center, public courtyard, private gardens, outdoor rooftop decks, meeting rooms, and other hotel amenities. There will be a total of 122 parking spaces for the project, including 30 on-street and 92 located on an adjacent parcel across Brown Street.

Designed using feedback from the community, the buildings will be FSC redwood siding and vertical slats, carbonized redwood siding, textured concrete, a light-colored species wood siding, weathered steel panels, and covered in vine planting. The materials reference the local natural palate and rely on naturally sustainable materials.

The massing of the buildings is broken up to match the smaller scale of the surrounding buildings and context. This provides a finer grain that matches that of the town. The highest portion of the building is positioned across from the tallest adjacent building, the Rialto cinema, and then steps down two stories towards the south corner to adjust to the height of the neighboring building and allow more sunlight into the public courtyard.

Landscaping will be featured in the public courtyard, private gardens, passage, roof decks, green roofs, and streetscapes. It will be composed of plant species that are native to the area and will be maintained with a rainwater collection system or low-water drip irrigation. Concrete paving and permeable pavers provide a hardscape. The public courtyard will be mostly open to accommodate people and seating, and the private gardens will be an intimate space for the pool and wellness center.

Signage for the project will be located on both McKinley St and the corner of Petaluma and Depot. It will be placed at street level and will be legible and well-lit.

This project will take a sustainable green approach to construction and operations, included in the plan are solar roof panels for water heating to conserve electricity, storm water management, renewable/reused materials, and rainwater collection. The project goal is to achieve a LEED certification.

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Thanks, Barry. This is very helpful, as was the Core Project report. Something is bound to go into that key space. So if this project is rejected, something much worse could go in there. From what is below, it sounds as if this is a multi-use place that could be good for downtown Sebastopol.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Before taking a position on this hotel project I suggest you check out the developer's website. ...

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I am surprised that the proposed hotel is news to so many people. Everyone who has lived in town for more than a few years should be very aware that this property has long been the subject of development conversation since the hardware store/lumber yard closed many years ago. To my count, there have been five public meetings. City sponsored meetings discussing development potential, public workshops held by the hotel developer, design review and Planning Commission meetings have all been very well publicized and well attended. I have attended most.

I enthusiastically support the hotel/retail/maker space project for the following reasons:

The Diamond Lumber is an Eyesore - The property has languished in its current state of disrepair for decades right in the heart of town. Rather than elevating the downtown experience, it is currently a dead block in the center of of the city.

Ample Time for Alternatives - A number of posts have mentioned alternative uses for the property. The lumber yard has been available for sale for many years. If a person or group had a viable use/development idea and money to back it up, I'm sure the owner would have entertained a realistic offer.

Current Use Doesn't Belong Downtown - The current tractor business provides very little benefit to our community. It serves a family small segment of the community and the patrons of the tractor shop probably do little shopping in other downtown businesses. They have work to do. They drive into town, get what they need, then drive back home.

Development will be good for our town, socially and economically. Guests at the new hotel will shop on Main Street and in the Barlow, taste local wine and spirits, eat in local restaurants, enjoy our farmer's market and can do all this without getting in a car. Our town plaza will finally be completed by a block of attractive new shops and restaurants. Our out-of-town visiting friends and family members will have a nice, central place to stay and might actually want to spend more time in town instead of running off to other destinations. Our local merchants benefit, we residents get a more complete town and the City gets a much needed boost in revenues from hotel taxes.

Best Use - I think the best uses for this parcel are either mixed-use hotel/retail or retail/housing. Studies of the best potential businesses and the SDAT all mentioned boutique hotels as being one of the most desirable uses downtown. It just happened that a local hotel/retail developer chose to pursue it. If a mixed-use retail/housing developer had come forward, that would have been great by me, but none did that I know of.

Local Developer - The hotel developer/operator is local to Sonoma County. Not only do they develop the property, they operate the hotel and manage the restaurant, retail and maker spaces. Being local, they have an interest in the success of the place. This isn't a Marriot, Hilton or some other chain business.

It's More than a Hotel - The project consists of a hotel, restaurant/retail spaces fronting the Plaza and maker spaces kitty-corner from Screamin Mimi's.

Traffic Impact - A 66 room hotel will have minimal traffic impact. Much less than a 66 unit apartment complex. Being downtown, guests at this hotel will drive less than guests at our other two hotels and less than AirBnb guests outside town.

Jobs - A hotel will provide a wide variety and fairly large number of jobs; high salary management, well paid staff and wait-people and lower paying housekeeping jobs. Most jobs will be equal or better paying than those found in Main Street shops. Some will support living in town. Some will not.

I encourage all who are just hearing about this to visit the City website, download and study the design drawings and read the input from the public meetings. After you do, I hope you will join me in supporting this project. I love Sebastopol and feel very strongly that this a great opportunity to make our City even better than it already is.


Ted Luthin

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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:

I have concerns...
OK with a hotel... but not downtown.

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really?? I feel quite differently - only downtown seems suitable for a hotel. Where else would one fit??

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I am surprised that the proposed hotel is news to so many people...To my count, there have been five public meetings. City sponsored meetings discussing development potential, public workshops held by the hotel developer, design review and Planning Commission meetings have all been very well publicized and well attended. I have attended most.

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So you concede that you're hearing a lot of people say this is new news?! That should tell you something about how "well publicized and well attended" these meetings were. I too have attended most and am not the only one who would disagree with your recollection of the meetings. I just finished sitting with an elderly friend of mine who literally attends every council/planning/design review/GPU meeting and she too said, "I remember the Design Review and Planning Meetings. There were maybe 7 or 8 of us in the room!" And as for the workshops, one which I recall having a specific conversation with you, there were maybe 50 people in total, including city council members, planning commissioners like yourself, city staff, Ron B., and the hotel reps… that left about 15/20 (tops) who were unrelated to the city and/or this project, many of whom were business owners, not your run-of-the-mill citizen.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I enthusiastically support the hotel/retail/maker space project for the following reasons:

The Diamond Lumber is an Eyesore - The property has languished in its current state of disrepair for decades right in the heart of town. Rather than elevating the downtown experience, it is currently a dead block in the center of of the city.

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In talking to the tractor guys, I understand they put about $80,000 into the building in order to have their business there. Did anyone ever say, "Hey RON! Spruce up your corner!" How is it that, short of this development, he's off the hook for the deteriorating condition of the property?

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Ample Time for Alternatives - A number of posts have mentioned alternative uses for the property. The lumber yard has been available for sale for many years. If a person or group had a viable use/development idea and money to back it up, I'm sure the owner would have entertained a realistic offer.

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Sure there's been ample time, but just saying if someone came along sooner, then you're sure something else would have happened, is disingenuous. First, what's a "realistic offer?" It's always a question of how much money an investor wants and how long is he willing to hold out until he gets it. Furthermore, maybe what you mean to say is "the city has had many years" to put together their subcommittee and seek out a developer for this location. This was an unprecedented move on the city's part; not just the formation of a subcommittee for this purpose, but the configuration of the subcommittee: Councilwoman Gurney, Councilman Eder, his wife, and an architect who, from what I can see, mostly designs guest cottages and dwellings. If that wasn't a narrowly selected subcommittee, I don't know what is. Seems to me they knew what they wanted and the "community workshops" were simply a means by which to justify it- a CYA if you will.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Current Use Doesn't Belong Downtown - The current tractor business provides very little benefit to our community. It serves a family small segment of the community and the patrons of the tractor shop probably do little shopping in other downtown businesses. They have work to do. They drive into town, get what they need, then drive back home.

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Now see, this is where I REALLY have to take reeeeally big deep breaths. This statement is a blatant denial of the role this town plays to everyone from Jenner to Point Reyes. This statement denies everyone who is in Sebastopol's sphere of influence. This statement demonstrates how we really aren't supportive of our agricultural or local food community. This statement is astounding and deeply sad to me. This statement reaffirms my suspicion of hypocrisy in our town leadership.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Development will be good for our town, socially and economically. Guests at the new hotel will shop on Main Street and in the Barlow, taste local wine and spirits, eat in local restaurants, enjoy our farmer's market and can do all this without getting in a car. Our town plaza will finally be completed by a block of attractive new shops and restaurants. Our out-of-town visiting friends and family members will have a nice, central place to stay and might actually want to spend more time in town instead of running off to other destinations. Our local merchants benefit, we residents get a more complete town and the City gets a much needed boost in revenues from hotel taxes.

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And we all become the indentured servants, catering to the fancy people with the money. Ok. Won't be the first time I've put on my best dog-and-pony show for a few coins tossed my way. But to be clear, it's not my friends and family, and certainly no one else's I know, who are going to be paying $300-$400 a night! But the TAXES- that's what it's about. That's all it's about. TOT and Sales. Ok- but just stay with that; it's about the taxes, because what you call a "more complete town" is TOTALLY subjective. For me, a complete town is where I can get a fan belt and spark plug for my riding mower. I can pass on the $16 negroni and $7500 boots!

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Best Use - I think the best uses for this parcel are either mixed-use hotel/retail or retail/housing. Studies of the best potential businesses and the SDAT all mentioned boutique hotels as being one of the most desirable uses downtown. It just happened that a local hotel/retail developer chose to pursue it. If a mixed-use retail/housing developer had come forward, that would have been great by me, but none did that I know of.

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It did not "just happen that…" I too was at the meetings. I was also a scribe during the SDAT. You are grossly overstating the process that has led us here.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Local Developer - The hotel developer/operator is local to Sonoma County. Not only do they develop the property, they operate the hotel and manage the restaurant, retail and maker spaces. Being local, they have an interest in the success of the place. This isn't a Marriot, Hilton or some other chain business.

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Indeed, Piazza Hospitality is a FINE company. They do beautiful work and run excellent businesses. I honestly can't say anything ill of Cerce, Pablo, or their team. I've known them for several years now. They are good people and since this thing is already a done deal- I'm glad it's going to get done by them. My personal issue has never been with them, their design, or operations. They are great. My issue is with how our city representatives have gone about this and the process our city has taken. My issue is that no business that is not tourist based should ever want to open here in Sebastopol lest our city officials actively pull the rug out from under you for the sake of TOT and Sales taxes… and a "more complete town!" BTW- For those of you who don't know, the owner of the tractor store DIED of a heart attack a few weeks ago. He was in his early 50's. I'm sure the stress of having your own town trying to cast you downstream had absolutely nothing to do with any elevated stress that may have affected his heart- not at all!!

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

It's More than a Hotel - The project consists of a hotel, restaurant/retail spaces fronting the Plaza and maker spaces kitty-corner from Screamin Mimi's.

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Meh!

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

Traffic Impact - A 66 room hotel will have minimal traffic impact. Much less than a 66 unit apartment complex. Being downtown, guests at this hotel will drive less than guests at our other two hotels and less than AirBnb guests outside town.

Jobs - A hotel will provide a wide variety and fairly large number of jobs; high salary management, well paid staff and wait-people and lower paying housekeeping jobs. Most jobs will be equal or better paying than those found in Main Street shops. Some will support living in town. Some will not.

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Can you explain how the guests for the 66 rooms, the employees for the hotel, the employees and patrons for the restaurant, retail spaces, wellness center, and makers spaces…. all adds up to LESS traffic than 66 unit apartment complex? It's really difficult for me to understand that math.

LAST BUT NOT LEAST- I distinctly recall at the community workshop standing with you in front of the map and you pointing out the property that you own that is right next to/or very near this development and you saying to me, "This is going to be good for me because then I'll be able to do something with my property." Can you please tell us exactly which parcel that was?

The Metro Hotel in Petaluma is a great example of a small, boutique, not astronomically priced hotel that is not in the center of downtown, but rather just south of it, yet totally accessible by a short walk! I think the old Sebastopol Charter School campus would have made a great hotel site. Also remember that the city had already approved a permit for a boutique hotel at the French Garden site. I want to know, what other site options were entertained for a hotel- any?!

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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:

I have concerns...
OK with a hotel... but not downtown.
I'm against more generic retail spaces. Retail is in decline due to delivery, and adding more in a declining market...

I don't like the idea of another large development in downtown that likely will never be divided or local owned.

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Kitty,

Thanks to respond. Maybe most folks around here agree with you, that's what I'm trying to find out.

I would however like to respond to your comments, maybe we can get some dialogue going. To begin with a “tourist trap” is exactly what a boutique hotel is. By definition a tourist trap is a place, such as a shop or a resort area, that offers overpriced goods and services to tourists. Last I heard the going rate for these rooms is expected to be between $200 to $400/night – Personally, I consider that overpriced.

The artist/maker studio spaces will be great for those folks. Unfortunately those few available spaces will service only a very small percentage of our community's residents. I for one would prefer to see development on that location that has potential benefit to the majority of our working class community rather than the select few makers and business owners. While I agree that a boost in business for our local merchants would be great I personally feel that it would be more appropriate for that boost to come from locals rather than traveling tourists. We are, after all, supposed to be an environmentally conscientious community. Regardless of how anyone wishes to parse words there is nothing environmentally friendly about tourism. At present it is an oil based industry. If our downtown merchants are experiencing a decline in business perhaps it's because they are not offering enough essential goods and services that local folks need to purchase.

It would certainly be an anomaly if for some unprecedented reason boutique hotels in our little town were to create more affordable housing. There is not a shred of data to support that hypothesis but you are entitled to your opinion. On the other hand there is a preponderance of evidence to support the complete opposite. Typically as towns begin to cater to tourism, tourists increase, rents increase, property values increase, cost of living increases, service industry minimum wage jobs increase. Available affordable housing decreases, white collar livable-wage jobs decrease, community residents decrease – working class folks simply can no longer afford to live in their own town. This process is called gentrification. We are moving in that direction with this first-of-several proposed boutique hotels.

No doubt the hotel will bring in some range of jobs but 'some' is the operative word. How many jobs with salaries in excess of $40,000/year do you think this hotel will offer as compared to the total number of jobs that will be available? Typically the majority of jobs brought in by hotels, restaurants, bars and retail shops are minimum wage service jobs. I don't expect this developer to be any different. Next question, where do you suppose the majority of the employees for all these new jobs are coming from? You'd probably be correct if you said Santa Rosa, Rohnert Park or Cotati but certainly not Sebastopol. Why? Because few can afford to live in Sebastopol on a minimum wage job. This is the inevitable effect of insufficient affordable housing. This is the cycle that begins with one elegant boutique hotel. Have you been to Healdsburg lately? Same developer, he started with one elegant boutique hotel in Healdsburg, added a second and is currently working on his third. The entire town has been “elegantly” transformed into a tourist trap.....

Traffic is probably one of the most obvious downsides if you consider that this 66 room hotel, booked to an average capacity of 70% will generate 20,000 to 25,000 visitors each year. On the low end that is more than twice our entire population. And while you're thinking about that don't forget to account for all of the employees living outside of Sebastopol that will be commuting back and forth to work, for multiple shifts, around the clock, everyday.

Finally, I think it safe to say that their website is a well written promo piece designed to sell the project to the public. There certainly was more than sufficient assistance from our city council and city planners to create what they thought would “ensure a high level of community support”. My problem with this is that as per the resultant SDAT report derived from the most encompassing and most attended community input events, a hotel, of any size, was not even suggested. I suspect that's because there is nothing sustainable about a hotel. I believe the goal of connecting downtown with the Barlow can be accomplished without destroying our working class, family oriented community with a tourist based economy. In the end I'm not so sure that the new $43 million dollar hotel is going to actually allow our local youth to “hang out” on & around its premises while catering to its elite guests. But in the end I doubt that it will matter, I suspect there will be few local youth left who live in our little town.....

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

I looked at the developer's website and their properties. Nice. Elegant. In keeping with the local flavor. Not at all "tourist traps."

I read the notice on the photo. The complex would include "artist/maker" studios as well as retail. Nice. Keeping with the local flavor and providing much-needed studio space for creative types.....

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I appreciate Rustie's response. It is important to consider both the positive and negative aspects of this development, as well as different opinions. We all love Sebastopol and hope to be able to continue working and living here. I hope that this conversation can continue in a cordial way, rather than degenerate.

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Posted in reply to the post by Rustie:

Kitty,

Thanks to respond. Maybe most folks around here agree with you, that's what I'm trying to find out...

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

really?? I feel quite differently - only downtown seems suitable for a hotel. Where else would one fit??

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I felt one in the north would best compliment the existing hotels in town.
I guess it was a rather dated opinion upon further consideration, as walking distance to local businesses is better.

Well, the Fairfield is south of town....

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

really?? I feel quite differently - only downtown seems suitable for a hotel. Where else would one fit??

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

So you concede that you're hearing a lot of people say this is new news?! That should tell you something about how "well publicized and well attended" these meetings were.

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I was responding to the number of people on this forum that were surprised by the development. I attend a lot of public meetings and was on the GPAC, so know that the hotel meetings were relatively well attended. Very few people show up to Planning Commission, Design Review, City Council and General Plan Committee meetings, so I feel the hotel meetings were well attended by comparison. Part of the responsibility that comes with being a member of a community is being informed. I led the efforts opposing CVS and that started by my attending a Design Review Board meeting, posting on this forum and speaking at every public meeting. We can't expect government or anyone else to come searching for our input.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

In talking to the tractor guys, I understand they put about $80,000 into the building in order to have their business there. Did anyone ever say, "Hey RON! Spruce up your corner!" How is it that, short of this development, he's off the hook for the deteriorating condition of the property?

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Everyone who owns and operates a business invests in it. If a business owner is renting, they know that their investment is only good until the end of their lease.

I agree that Mr. Basso has done a deplorable job of maintaining his property.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Furthermore, maybe what you mean to say is "the city has had many years" to put together their subcommittee and seek out a developer for this location. This was an unprecedented move on the city's part;

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I don't subscribe to the conspiratorial sentiment you express throughout your response. I have viewed our elected officials and City staff at work for many years and think they do a good job of working on our behalf and balancing the needs and desires of a community with very diverse priorities.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

This statement is a blatant denial of the role this town plays to everyone from Jenner to Point Reyes.

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My apologies for poorly wording my comment leading to misinterpretation. I am not discounting the need for a good tractor store. I visit the tractor shop once a year when I need to tune up my mower and enjoy being able to walk there. I walk down, get my parts, walk home and get back to work. My point is that some business are better suited for downtown locations than others. Downtown businesses should activate our sidewalks, fill the plaza, promote adjacent businesses and encourage pedestrian activity. A hotel with retail and maker space will do that infinitely better than the tractor store.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

But the TAXES- that's what it's about. That's all it's about. TOT and Sales. Ok- but just stay with that; it's about the taxes,

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Wanting to increase tax revenue is not something to ashamed of. Taxes pay for City services, pave our roads, maintain our infrastructure and keep our citizens safe. I think our City officials do an excellent job of doing a lot with very little. The loss of two car sales businesses was a huge blow to City revenues. With the hotel, we get a more vibrant downtown and the City gets TOT tax revenue from people who don't live here. Sorry, but I only see the positive in this.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

It did not "just happen that…" I too was at the meetings. I was also a scribe during the SDAT. You are grossly overstating the process that has led us here.

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Again, I don't support conspiracy theories.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

My issue is that no business that is not tourist based should ever want to open here in Sebastopol lest our city officials actively pull the rug out from under you for the sake of TOT and Sales taxes… and a "more complete town!"

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I don't see many businesses of any kind lining up to open shops downtown. Inexpensive spaces right downtown are often for lease. There are several available now. Many people have expressed a desire to see local business that offer essential goods and services to locals, but the reality is that there isn't enough foot traffic or money being spent downtown to support new businesses. The kitchen shop and several clothing stores, even a very affordable one, couldn't make it and many local businesses struggle downtown.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Can you explain how the guests for the 66 rooms, the employees for the hotel, the employees and patrons for the restaurant, retail spaces, wellness center, and makers spaces…. all adds up to LESS traffic than 66 unit apartment complex? It's really difficult for me to understand that math.

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I own rental property and most of our units are rented to people with two cars. That's 122 cars going to and from work each day, plus shopping, picking up kids, running errands etc. A typical hotel room will have one car per room, will be occupied 60%-70% of the time and there will be days when guests chose to walk, ride a bike or otherwise not drive. Add in staff and it's probably a wash with the apartment building.

The vast majority of traffic downtown is highway related ... people passing through. Unless there's a bypass, that is only going to get worse, not better. There are studies and statistics in the General Plan research materials if you would like to do some reading. Local businesses account for small percentage of traffic, so new development will not significantly affect traffic. And, as a close friend says, "the majority of people complaining about traffic are in cars".

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Can you please tell us exactly which parcel that was?

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Sure ... I co-own the small vacant parcel on McKinley across from Taylor Maid. Yes, a hotel will probably have a positive impact on my property value, be being so small, it's a difficult to build on.

I understand the concern about our town become dominated by tourists and that does concern me. This project is really nicely designed, is scaled perfectly for downtown, will have a wonderful wide sidewalk along the Plaza and has a balance of tourist and local space that I really like.

As others have mentioned, I would love to see more housing downtown. I'm just not sure how to make that happen. For construction of dense housing to make financial sense, rents will have to rise beyond where they are now.

There are still quite a few empty parcels in the center of town that will be developed sometime in the future. The former concrete batch plant, empty land on Brown Street, the rest of the CVS parcel and quite a few others. Some are quite affordable. If people have real ideas and business plans (money) to back them up, now is the time to act. Otherwise, we get whatever someone else wants to build. As I often say ... we're great protesters but not great planners. It's time to stop protesting and start proactively planning, promoting and getting the businesses we want in town.

I look forward to continued discussion.

Ted

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

Well, the Fairfield is south of town....

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and it's ok.. not too big a footprint on the town. But if we're bringing in more visitors I'd prefer they don't have to use their cars except to go winetasting or whatever. If they can just wander from the hotel to restaurants, bookstores, theaters, etc, it would be better than having a source for lots of vehicle traffic on the periphery of town.

This project is a bum rush, and the bums are our city leaders, in cahoots with local developers for the rich. Just look at the architect renderings. They show nothing of surrounding existing development, because this project is so massive it will dwarf cvs. You're fooling yourself if you think there has been sufficient outreach. This is a perfect example of government action which drives citizens into outrage, then apathy, onto despair :..(

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I was responding to the number of people on this forum that were surprised by the development. ...

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With regard to citizens being uninformed and the lack of attendance at events that organizers work very hard to set up and publicize, I’ve started another thread listing resources here.

Thanks Rustie,
I have mixed feelings for this project. I have personally seen surrounding commercial rents climb steeply(doubled) after the barlow opened, even with the barlow then only 60% occupied. It's tough to be a small business owner/commercial renter in Sebastopol. Wahhh. The hotel will certainly continue this trend, no doubt. Great for landowners, not so great for stability of small businesses who must rent.
That this is proposed so near to the confluence of Hwy's 12 & 116 is, frankly, insane. As we all know, it takes 15 minutes to pass through downtown most days now, and this project will increase transit times even further, along with idling engines spewing diesel particulates at pedestrian level. If you work 9-5 in a street-level business downtown, you know what I mean; it's a serious health threat.
I see no new on-street parking added, though current street parking spaces seem to be counted/sold as 30 'new' spaces.
Tourism as it is practiced in wine country is unsustainable; how many Gallons of petrol are burnt to consume 6 liters of vino?
Wow, hotels use LOTS of water....say no more; when you're on vacation or 'getaway', who can be bothered to conserve?
It's great, for a few, that tourists will leave piles of money here, but our collective quality of life is suffering for it, seriously.
I think a continuation of the sidewalk on said lot would have been a quite fine connector between barlow-ville and the plaza, no need for five stories of connector.
Looking at the barlow, it's already short of parking many days, so the "Hotel Seb" may need to rethink and add a five-level parking garage. The city ought to require a basement parking level, with bike lockers, all open to the public! now that would be a fantastic public service.

Having said all that, the images look pretty sweet. I have a love-hate relationship with what downtown Healdsburg has become; yeah, it's all beautiful design, nice plantings, old bones of buildings preserved, but what does it add to the community besides wealthy and/or beautiful people slinging dollars for stuff they probably don't really need?
To me it's primarily wine-themed disneyfication of what once was a genuine working-class small town.
We've long passed the tipping point where the Sebastopol area is either working class or affordable, so maybe it's too late, buck up and accept our fate written by the wine tourism boosters PR hacks.

If it gets built, I'll probably visit, walk-through on the way to the theatre, but I don't have friends who would/could shell-out $200-400 for a room, so I'll just have to wonder how the jet-set lives 'up there' in those lofty quarters.
Oh, and they'd better have free and strong public WiFi in that 'public' plaza, or should I say public piazza.

To sum-up:
• 5 stories is too high
• alcohol-free is the new bartini; ban the bar; breathalyzers at each exit; spare the public air
• god I'm tired of alcohol-related businesses in my home place
• start backyard-breeding glassy-winged sharpshooters everyone
• must include a 'skybridge' across 116 to the plaza; screw the connector, we want a skybridge
• bright and direct lighting should be minimized
• rooftop garden anti-cackling ordinance to be enacted pronto
• more public parking will be needed and should be added at developers cost
• hotel should have 10% "affordable" rooms @ $19.99/night; maybe in tents on the rooftop garden?
• in lieu of 10% affordable rooms, rooms available for hourly rental; certainly needed downtown...
• should be put on a severe water-conservation program; low-flow, low-flush, no-flush?
• I bet this means lowly pedestrians will finally get a crossing light(see skybridge comment above)
• bring on the bypasses/overpasses/underpasses; who cares, just get rid of some damn cars please

that is all, over and out, they're coming for me now
Kane

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Posted in reply to the post by Rustie:

Kitty,

Thanks to respond. Maybe most folks around here agree with you, that's what I'm trying to find out.

I would however like to respond to your comments, maybe we can get some dialogue going. To begin with a “tourist trap” is exactly what a boutique hotel is. ....

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The proposal for the new hotel sounds sounds eerily familiar to the process with the new CVS. Have an owner of a vital downtown parcel partner with a developer to build something no one wants. Go thru the Design Review,. Planning Commission, and City Council. Have them change the plan setbacks, height, parking, landscaping, to put pretty wrapping and a bow on a project that no one wants. After a lengthy give and take, that exhausts everyone, have the dog approved.

It speaks to our economy, where money trumps everything else, including people.

This makes me remember the year that I lived in Sonoma, in the late 90s. It's beautiful town, beautiful square, with great restaurants. There's very little soul there. I moved back to Sebastopol as soon as I could, for the people here. Like Healdsburg, Sonoma has developed to be a tourist trap. Condos, B&Bs, wine shops. It's all high end. Very few average people there. No one can afford it. All the rich white people live in the City limits, hardly any middle income people, and all the servant/working class lives in the Sonoma Valley.

The biggest need is for affordable housing. I'd hope that our City Council people and those running for office would have the vision of what people need, not what the property owner wants.

Tommy reminds us of an important history with respect to CVS--what a major disaster, which I hope many of us will boycott when it attempts to increase our already messed-up downtown traffic, to accumulate more wealth for outsiders, at our expenses.

I have been following this debate on the new hotel + and must admit that I see good points on both sides. May the debate continue, in as cordial a way as possible.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

The proposal for the new hotel sounds sounds eerily familiar to the process with the new CVS...

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Posted in reply to the post by kane:

...
To sum-up:
...
• in lieu of 10% affordable rooms, rooms available for hourly rental; certainly needed downtown...
....

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either you have a different experience with that style of hotel than I do, or I'm missing something about Sebastopol's underground economy. Last hotel I saw like that was next to Santa Anita raceway in LA. Although I hear that in the new economy with millennials living with their parents there's a new clientele forming for businesses like that. Still, that wasn't a feature request I saw coming!

Hi Rustie, Kane, et al,

My comment "perhaps if there were more boutique hotels perhaps there would be more affordable housing" is a wry comment on the effect Airbnb has on the rental market. Airbnb is devastating the rental markets in many areas by taking long-term rentals off the market and offering them for travelers and tourists.

For $148 a night you can stay in an airbnb tent in in Sebastopol, so a boutique hotel room for $200 seems somewhat reasonable. As an avid traveler, I see rooms rates climbing everywhere. It's hard to find a decent guest house room in the outbacks of Southeast Asia these days for $19.99. You'd be hard-pressed to find a Motel 6 for less than $75 on the bleakest stretch of freeway here in CA.

At the edge of the Bay area, Sebastopol is suffering the same soaring prices that are affecting the entirety of NorCal and just about everywhere. I know a number of people who dreamed of moving here to escape the intensity and over-heated pricing of the Bay Area. But their hopes were dashed by lack of affordable housing and lack of jobs.

Where are these elusive developers of affordable and sustainable housing? Why aren't developers stepping up to invest millions in these kind of properties? Do you know any? I sure don't see many out there. What kind of civic campaign would it take to attract some?

Look at Lyding Commons here in Sebastopol. A beautiful sustainable concept and thoughtful design, and so EXPENSIVE! Four years ago it was over $750,000 for a small live/work space with shared common areas. I have no idea what they might sell for now. But certainly not affordable for your average small business owner.

Yes, there's some "disneyfication" going on. And there are also affluent people who genuinely desire to get away from their stressful lives and experience the beauty and bounty of Sonoma County. We're blessed with an explosion of organic wholesome artisan goodness going on around here (not just wine, and yes, there's a very dark side to some of the agriculture as well).

People want to come taste and touch and feel it. It's a mixed bag of "progress."

If the project goes through I hope that townspeople will work with the hotel's owners to encourage them to be good civic citizens and make positive contributions to the well-being of our town and its people.

And Rustie, I agree that the public access and parking situation should be carefully scrutinized before it passes -- if it passes -- and potential new ideas brought forward that benefit the town, not just the hotel.

Here's an interesting article that pertains to how we think about urbanization based on our values here in the states. It appeared on the same FB thread discussing Healdburg's housing crisis due to it's gentrification. Some interesting points to ponder I think....https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/201...landscape.html

One interesting aspect of this hotel proposal is the inclusion of 6 hostel style rooms over the maker spaces. The developer did add a qualifier that they had not tried this type of thing before, but they were willing to give it a try. I think this, plus the inclusion of maker spaces, public spaces and stepping up the massing away from the Plaza shows that the developer has listened to input and is actually trying to respond the community. That's a unique quality in a developer.

I think the challenge with housing on this property is parking. Unlike a hotel which can have valet parking and an offsite lot and mechanized parking, housing needs onsite parking. Rent in this area is not high enough to justify structured or underground parking, so that means that over 1/2 the property would have to become a parking lot. When you do that math, I think housing is hard to get to pencil out in this location.

That's pretty cool that they are including 6 hostel rooms. I was just trying to make reservations for an event I'm attending in downtown San Diego early next year (yow - expensive!). I stumbled across a few hostel spaces in the midst of some very pricey real estate. This could be a good trend where developers are developing an improved sense of inclusiveness.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

One interesting aspect of this hotel proposal is the inclusion of 6 hostel style rooms over the maker spaces.

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Sebastopol Planning Commission Public Hearing
on proposed HOTEL SEBASTOPOL


Tuesday, September 27, 2016Youth Annex, 425 Morris St.7:00 p.m.

More info here.

I've been involved in my own little priviate Idaho and did not know about the proposed hotel until I read it here on wacco.

This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really? Holy smokes. What's so attractive about a 5 story building in my/our town? Right at two major intersections that have already become a mess thanks to CVS?? And it's been determined that this monstrosity WON"T negatively impact traffic?

What a crock, what a stupid location, and what a stupid use of the space. One more idea, if brought to fruition, that will drive out the last of the long time sebastopol residents because they won't be able to afford to live here anymore. Heck, they can't afford to live here now.

This is very disappointing and discouraging news. Where's the protest? Where's the outrage?

arrgghh!

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Posted in reply to the post by JayS:

...This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really?...

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Not really. They are requesting 4 stories.

From the staff report:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...5_18-54-54.png

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Posted in reply to the post by JayS:

I've been involved in my own little priviate Idaho and did not know about the proposed hotel until I read it here on wacco.

This hotel is going to be 5 freakin stories high??!!! Really? Holy smokes. What's so attractive about a 5 story building in my/our town? ... Where's the outrage?

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Before proceeding with outrage, have a better look at the drawings. Here's a link: https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/de...et_revised.pdf

The proposed hotel is a tall single story at the corner of Petaluma and McKinley, 2 stories along Petaluma stepping up to 3 stories along Depot and McKinley. The only 4 story section is about 1/2 the length of The Brown Street side, the least visible side. 3 stories is the maximum allowed by code. The frontage facing the Plaza is the lowest section and also the most open. There are wide sidewalks and a lot of space at the corner. Splitting the project is a pedestrian connector through to Brown Street. I don't think it's going to feel massing or overbearing at all. Have a good look at the drawings and you might be surprised at how nice it's going to be.

Ted

The drawings show nothing of surrounding existing buildings. That makes it difficult to visualize the scale and community impact of the proposed development. This isn't difficult to do. Clearly a choice was made.

A.15, A.20 & A.21 show elevations with existing buildings.


You can see the full size elevations here:

A20:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...6_22-09-09.png

A21:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...6_22-10-23.png



a20:



a21:

Thank you, 20 and 21 do show how massive this project is compared to mimis and the movie theater. Why is this info not displayed in the pretty 3d perspectives which are always front and center on both the developers and city's presentation? Why only in a few limited elevations at the end of a really big pdf? I was at play in the courtyard of the same developers set up in healdsburg a few weeks ago. Puny compared to this monster!

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Posted in reply to the post by Hollyanna:

A.15, A.20 & A.21 show elevations with existing buildings.

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As someone born in Sebastopol struggling to be able to stay here like so many other young West County people, this hotel project seems to not meet the needs of the residents of Sebastopol. Sebastopol has very limited plans for housing and has done little for housing in the past couple years. When you add more jobs without increased housing supply that means increase in housing costs. Of course, I also think the hotel will bring more wealthy out of towners with interest in living in our area or purchasing a getaway home which will also of course impact housing costs.

Here's what I think might be a relevant article about the changes that have come to Healdsburg that I'd like to avoid. -- How wealth is making Healdsburg a miniature San Francisco

From the article-- "In a little more than two decades, the Wine Country city of Healdsburg has transformed from the fading buckle on California’s prune belt into what Fodor’s Travel calls “one of the best small towns in America.” Ringing its picturesque town square are caviar-tart-serving restaurants, a couple dozen wine tasting venues and $400-per-night hotel rooms that draw international jet-setters.But for a growing number of residents — the ones who can’t afford $35 lobster risotto entrees — Healdsburg’s turnaround has been too successful. Its fading affordability has turned this 11,000-person city into a cautionary tale for how a regional economic boom can reshape even the towns on its fringes.

Now Healdsburg leaders are trying to figure out how to keep the vineyard workers, teachers and waiters that made the city such an attractive food and wine mecca in the first place."


https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...an-6392920.php

I just wanted to mention that we are not alone in this quagmire; Maui comes immediately to mind, where many local native Hawaiians work two or three jobs to pay their rent, and a growing number are now homeless in their own homeland. There are now more Hawaiians on the mainland than in Hawai'i.

Oh, and I was just kidding about adding hourly room rentals!

And what is a "Hostel" room anyway? Too-soft mattresses on too-short bunk beds, with no privacy or security? Been to plenty hostels, just none in boutique hotels?

See you Tuesday night everyone!

Over and out

Yeah i love hostels! Its where i stay when travelling to cities far away. Though airbnb has made a play. My understanding is the seb hotel offers these rooms as a sop to community feedback with no commitment. Anyone who knows please correct me. I won't make it to the meeting cause its 4 yr old bedtime, and since i don't live in town, my opinion matters less. About the hourly rates, sebastopol wouldn't need them if chief hen weaver was less committed to puritanical laws.

You can see the full size elevations that compare the proposed hotel to the nearby building here:

A20:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...6_22-09-09.png

A21:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...6_22-10-23.png

Very interesting article about Healdsburg that jerichsalud posted (link below) .

According to the article, it doesn't seem like boutique hotels had much to do with soaring rents ....

Here's what the article discusses as the true root cause:

"Much like San Francisco, Healdsburg has been altered by restrictive land use rules that were intended to preserve the city’s character, but have instead calcified its wealth gap.

Voters’ restrictions
In 2000, Healdsburg voters passed a growth-management ordinance — colloquially known as the GMO — restricting the city from issuing more than 30 residential building permits a year. It has worked too well. Since 2007, the city has approved an average of 20 units a year; nearly none for low-income residents. Due to the cap on development, many builders choose more lucrative and easy-to-finance single-family homes instead of multifamily dwellings."

I was just listening to a story on NPR/KQED this morning. Lack of affordable housing is EPIDEMIC across the entire Bay Area and beyond. I sadly know many displaced renters. There are larger macroeconomic forces at work beyond boutique hotels.

It is interesting to note that the Healdsburg voters were trying to preserve the character of their town but instead saw unintended consequences years later of over-gentrification.

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Here's what I think might be a relevant article about the changes that have come to Healdsburg that I'd like to avoid. -- How wealth is making Healdsburg a miniature San Francisco

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...an-6392920.php

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Well then let's talk about Land Use! I'm sure you've looked up this property. It's current Land Use designation is "Downtown Core." The intention of Downtown Core is described as...
"...to implementthe “Industrial” land use category of the GeneralPlan and to provide areas for the manufacture,assembly, packaging, or storage of products which,in the opinion of the Planning Commission, are notharmful, injurious, or detrimental to property or thegeneral welfare of the City and its residents; andother general commercial uses that are compatiblewith the industrial uses. This district is applicableto light and general industrial areas of the City."

It's zoning under that Land Use is "M/Industrial." The purpose of "M/ Industrial" is:
"to implementthe “Industrial” land use category of the GeneralPlan and to provide areas for the manufacture,assembly, packaging, or storage of products which,in the opinion of the Planning Commission, are notharmful, injurious, or detrimental to property or thegeneral welfare of the City and its residents; andother general commercial uses that are compatiblewith the industrial uses. This district is applicableto light and general industrial areas of the City."

It's permitted uses are:

A. Commercial Use Types.
1. General wholesale sales.
2. Commercial manufacturing.
3. Transport and warehousing.
4. Automotive repair and service.
5. Food sales and service, except as provided in SMC 17.72.030.
6. Office use on second floors existing as of May 21, 2013, within the area bounded by Sebas-topol Avenue, Petaluma Avenue, McKinley Street,and Morris Street.
7. Barber and beauty shops if associated witha transient habitation use.
8. Florists within the area bounded byLaguna Park Way, Morris Street, Sebastopol Ave-nue, and Petaluma Avenue.
B. Industrial Use Types.
1. Custom industrial.
2. Light industrial.
3. Artist work studios and arts-related fabri-cation.

It's "Conditional Uses" are:

A. Affordable housing projects.
B. Permanent residential uses permitted in theRM-H District in a mixed-use development.
C. Live-work dwelling units in a mixed-usedevelopment.
D. Transient habitation in buildings existing asof July 23, 2013, within the area bounded byMcKinley Street, Morris Street, Sebastopol Ave-nue, and Depot Street.
E. Commercial Use Types.
1. General retail sales.
2. Specialty retail sales.
3. Walk-up food sales and service.
4. Animal hospitals and kennels.
5. Plant nurseries.
F. The following civic use types:
1. Community assembly.
2. Community nonassembly.
3. Community education.
4. Health care civic.
5. Utility civic uses.
6. Extensive impact civic.
G. Industrial Use Types.
1. General industrial uses.
2. Heavy industrial uses.
3. Wineries and brewing facilities.

Now don't be confused by the language "within the area bounded by McKinley Street, Morris Street, Sebastopol Avenue, and Depot Street." because THAT, my friend, was an adjustment made (and seen repeatedly, applying to a number of other specific business type exceptions) so that the Barlow could proceed with THEIR proposal of Hotel Barlow.

If you look, you will see that it IS indeed the same story as Healdsburg's; we have a City that keeps making exceptions to suit the urge to capture quick and easy money from the 1%. And CURRENTLY, it appears as though the present Land Use/Zoning is not in keeping with this proposal. I surely must be wrong, though. Someone please correct me. I mean, the new GPU has yet to be adopted. Maybe the plan to make an exception for "transient habitation" at this location is being made now as we speak. Who knows. What I do know is that according to what exists right now, it appears as though….1) this project does not comply and 2) this City Council has now established a history of rewriting the rules to suit their immediate desires. Just look at the Barlow!!!!!

Would you prefer to also just wait for a few years down the road before we admit… we too sold out?! Why not fight when there is still a chance?!

You are correct that the zoning is "Downtown Core", but the section you quoted is from the M-Industrial zone. The correct allowable uses for the Downtown Core are below.

Hotels "Transient Occupancy" uses are allowed in the DC, but need a Conditional Use Permit if over 50 units.

Ted

17.64.020 Permitted uses.

The following uses are permitted:
A. The following commercial uses:
1. Convenience sales and service.
2. General retail sales.
3. Food sales and service, except as provided in SMC 17.64.030.
4. Office uses.
5. Specialty retail sales.
B. Home occupations.
C. Homeless shelters.
D. Small community education civic.
E. Affordable housing projects.
F. The following residential use type when part of a mixed-use development:
1. Permanent residential uses permitted in the RM-H District.
2. Live-work dwelling units, except that live-work units are not permitted along the street frontage on Sebastopol Avenue, Healdsburg Avenue/Gravenstein Highway North, or Gravenstein Highway South, except by use permit.
G. Noncommercial minor antennas that meet the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060 and comply with the following, as appropriate:
H. Noncommercial minor antennas that meet the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060, obtain site plan approval from the Planning Director, and comply with the following, as appropriate:
I. Minor telecommunications facilities and commercial minor antennas, not exceeding 35 feet in height, provided the requirements of SMC 17.100.010 through 17.100.240 are met, as appropriate, as determined by the Planning Director.
J. Transient habitation involving less than 50 rooms.

17.64.030 Conditionally permitted uses.

The followings uses may be permitted, upon the granting of a use permit in each case:
A. The following civic use types:
1. Community assembly.
2. Community nonassembly.
3. Large community education civic.
4. Health care civic.
5. Utility civic uses.
B. Parking lots and freestanding parking structures.
C. The following commercial uses:
1. Extensive commercial.
2. Automobile repair, sales and service.
D. Transient habitation involving 50 or more rooms.
E. Noncommercial minor antennas that do not meet all of the requirements of SMC 17.100.020 through 17.100.060.
F. Commercial and noncommercial minor antennas that exceed the permitted heights for ground-mounted or building-mounted antennas, except that they may not exceed 100 feet in height.
G. Major telecommunications facilities, provided the requirements of SMC 17.100.010 through 17.100.230 are met, as determined by the Planning Commission.
H. Outdoor farm market.
I. New developments comprising 25,000 square feet or greater of floor area.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Well then let's talk about Land Use!...

It's zoning under that Land Use is "M/Industrial." ...

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SaveSave

Thanks, Ted, for these important details. We are all getting educated in this process and therefore becoming better citizens regarding how to support the town that we love so much.

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Posted in reply to the post by jerichsalud:

As someone born in Sebastopol struggling to be able to stay here like so many other young West County people...

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I agree with a lot of the concern about Sonoma County (and most of coastal California) becoming increasing expensive. Increasing property values, rents and gentrification are subjects I've been struggling to figure out. We discussed this a lot during the General Plan meetings and I've done a lot of reading, thinking, and continue to talk to people who know more than I do, but I can't put my finger on a workable solution.

This is a really beautiful, desirable place that has become increasingly easy to access over the past 50 years. We also are not in a bubble and our next door neighbor (the SF Bay Area) is home to some of the wealthiest people on the planet. Wealthy people can get here easily and find property relatively affordable when they arrive. So, there is demand that I don't think we can do anything about.

Every regulatory solution seems to have some kind of negative impact and all roads seem to lead to increasing property values and rent. Limiting or restricting growth reduces supply and leads to increased property values and rents. Loosening the restrictions on growth increases supply, so rents and values stabilize in the short term, but then this area becomes more affordable relative to the rest of the Bay Area. When that happens, people start moving here because they can afford it. Demand increases and that makes rents and values rise again.

I'm becoming convinced that higher population, increasing property values and rising rents are inevitable and something we can't do anything about. Can we stop people from moving here or coming to visit? I don't think so. What I do think we can control is the design of our community. That's why I support Urban Growth Boundaries and increasing density in the center of all our towns. I would love to see more housing and jobs in Sebastopol and would prefer to have tourists staying in town instead of in some other town or out in an AirBnb in the country.

If anyone knows of proven ways that we can manage the challenges we face, I would love to hear about them.

Ted

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I agree with a lot of the concern about Sonoma County (and most of coastal California) becoming increasing expensive. ...

If anyone knows of proven ways that we can manage the challenges we face, I would love to hear about them.

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First, to ask for a "proven way" is the first misstep, especially considering that you've established that there is no workable solution found in all of your research, that the housing crisis is inevitable, and nothing we can do anything about. Once again, you've eliminated the potential for innovation and true progressive creative solutions.

The next misstep is placating to the notion that centrally located industry is either ill-suited and/or an eye-sore, a term many people have used when referring to the property. The "eyesore" is on Basso, not the existence of tractors and parts. Would Napa Auto Parts be the next "eyesore" that will need to be resolved? Then what, the deli…. and it goes on.

If we are making revitalization improvements, we have to be clear WHO we are making the improvements for. Right now, we're making the improvements for the folks who have their weekend home, their investment property, their retirement home here (once they're ready to cash in on the City life). We're making the improvements for the tourist industry and the dollars we're soliciting from the 1%ers. We're NOT making the improvements for the construction workers, the teachers, the accountants, the bank tellers, the people who (few as they are) LIVE and WORK here and raise their FAMILIES here.

That's not to say that improvements aren't needed, it's just to say THOSE are not the people on who's behalf we're looking for solutions. When I sat through the PHG's workshop and listened to a woman say we needed the hotel because her friends needed a place to stay when she throws her birthday party, not recognizing her, I made it a point to find out more about her. You see, her house was too small to accommodate all her friends, because all her friends were from SF, because THAT'S WHERE SHE RESIDES! This is her weekend home. Now, how someone like that knew about this workshop while nobody who walks their dog on a daily basis down Leland St. knew anything about a hotel, is beyond me!

Bottom line- we are conflating a supposed need for additional transient accommodations with a full-fledged investment into the fastest growing industry of the century- TOURISM. Do we have nothing else to stem revitalization and/or improve access to supposedly much-needed accommodations?

Well….here's some thoughts which stem from investing in our AGRICULTURE and investing in industry and manufacturing:

1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisanal cheese production.

2) Perhaps Ace hardware would like to move downtown for all of their garden/housekeeping wares so they can expand their tool and lumber where they are now.

3) Get a small electric car dealership to go in

4) I believe if we actually solicited for development proposals besides just tourist-oriented hotel developers, we would have some interesting and viable options.

If more accommodations are a real need for this town, then lets talk about the airbnb. There are several already in town and more that could be incentivised. Right now, our home/farm stay ordinances require that the accommodation be a room in an occupant's home, you know, where one keeps their jewelry and guns and heirlooms and children and, and, and… It's ludicrous that we don't allow for granny units, converted garages, and other detached dwelling for OWNER OCCUPIED properties, especially if the process was incentivized by reduced permit fees and a local administrative association. You don't think we could create 40-60 accommodations in people's backyards in this town, what with all the residents who could use the additional income?! That would dissipate incoming traffic and eliminate influx of low-salary employee traffic coming in from surrounding areas adding to congestion.

One of the main reasons why the CVS development was such a fiasco is because we failed to implement policy that could mitigate/eliminate their proposal. Much like still not having Glass-Steagall reinstated this long after the 2008, nobody should be shocked when it all comes crashing down again. Now, this town did pass the formula chain ordinance, but there's SO much more to do instead of fear-mongering people with the notion that this project HAS to be done now and here lest some much worse developer decides to throw $$ Basso's way and he pulls a Pellini maneuver on us!

Lastly, to be true progressives, we need to be leaders in changing our society from one of consumerism based on desire to consumerism based of NEED. The city keeps asking us what we WANT, not what we NEED- and that's a much different approach. Do we NEED a wellness center in the downtown core when we have a failing hospital up the street?! No we need a wellness center that can partner with our hospital so it stays open and viable. Do we NEED more cafes?! HELL NO. I have yet to want for coffee in this town. Do we NEED more fancy restaurants? I hear it's hard for the ones existing.

What we NEED is for our city officials to stop making caveats to Land Use and Zoning, putting hair salons and real estate offices and fitness clubs in Industrial zoned locations. If you're going to do that, then we need our own kind of Cap-n-Trade and you find places like the old lumber yard to take on the industrial needs of this town. We NEED to be a town that produces and exports goods, not imports tourists. What we need is to not worry so much about the eyesore if the business is thriving and providing jobs that are more than entry-level hospitality jobs.

What we NEED is our special subcommittee to host more than ONE workshop, in a room that is only prepared to hold maybe 50 people, talking to themselves and the same tiny handful of people in order to find out what we NEED!!!!!!! We need our city representatives to NOT put their spouses on special subcommittees, but rather REACH OUT- there's more than one person with planning/development/marketing/workshop experience. We need our city representatives to show up to these workshops and talk with folks and NOT put their own dots on the wall, because that's just listening to yourselves, not your community. We need workshops hosted at the library, school gym, take a day and go into some classrooms- YES, it's TOTALLY reasonable to expect the city representatives to "come to us" on something like this, when what you claim you want is "community input." In moments like this, they DO need to make their job to campaign for our future as a town and a community, not just the next upcoming election!

Some great ideas there, Nancy! I particularly like your idea of supporting agriculture. What about an artisan food company incubator? There's LaCocina in SF, Forage Kitchen in Oakland, and KitchenTown in San Mateo/Silicon Valley.

The farmers are here. The creativity is here. An incubator would trump a hotel any day for value to the community and to the local economy. Why not one here?

There was once an effort called Preserve Sonoma which I believe started in Sebastopol some years ago. It was a food processing and preservation company whose mission is to help local farmers utilize produce that might otherwise end up as compost. I don't know if it ever found a home. (see https://www.gardentribe.com/merrilee-olson/ )

There was also an artisan food incubator considered for Petaluma - I don't know if it ever materialized - https://www.northbaybusinessjournal....id=778&fid=181

The Napa-Sonoma Small Business Development Center teaches courses on taking your concept from Kitchen to Market. I think they were involved with the Petaluma and Preserve Sonoma efforts, and could be a good resource.

Is anyone interested in working together to launch an effort to examine this possibility? I would kick some effort in on that. (I just made 2 phone calls to investigate what happened to the aforementioned projects...would do much more if there was a coalition) Is it too late for such an effort or just-in-time?


From Nancy: "We're NOT making the improvements for the construction workers, the teachers, the accountants, the bank tellers, the people who (few as they are) LIVE and WORK here and raise their FAMILIES here......

Well….here's some thoughts which stem from investing in our AGRICULTURE and investing in industry and manufacturing: 1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisinal cheese production."

I disagree. My interpretation is that the problem may be exacerbated by the GMO [growth-management ordinance ] but the article focuses on the growth as a tourism hub as the main contributing factor. Also, there is a measure on the ballot to change the GMO in Healdsburg to raise the cap.

From the article- "
But in the early 1980s, the city commissioned a study from the American Institute of Architects. It suggested taking advantage of the Wine Country location to become a hub for “destination tourism.”City leaders followed the prescient advice and their timing couldn’t have been better. California’s $25 billion wine industry has doubled in sales since 1998, and Healdsburg — located near three top growing regions — was ready to be a base camp for upscale tourists. The $400-per-night Healdsburg Hotel, which opened in 2001, became a beachhead for dozens of San Francisco-quality restaurants and shops to follow. A recent study said the city could easily fill double its 300 hotel rooms.

“Healdsburg has done a very good job of moving from a very slow-moving, agricultural hub into a place that is a worldwide mecca,” said Robert Eyler, a professor of economics at Sonoma State University and director of the Center for Regional Economic Analysis. “But now it is dealing with the pains of that.”"

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

...According to the article, it doesn't seem like boutique hotels had much to do with soaring rents ....

Here's what the article discusses as the true root cause:

"Much like San Francisco, Healdsburg has been altered by restrictive land use rules that were intended to preserve the city’s character, but have instead calcified its wealth gap.

Voters’ restrictions
In 2000, Healdsburg voters passed a growth-management ordinance...
...
https://www.sfchronicle.com/business...an-6392920.php

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

First, to ask for a "proven way" is the first misstep, especially considering that you've established that there is no workable solution found in all of your research, that the housing crisis is inevitable, and nothing we can do anything about. Once again, you've eliminated the potential for innovation and true progressive creative solutions.

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I haven't eliminated the potential for anything. I would love to see a real example of "true progressive creative solutions". Do you actually know of any?

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

The next misstep is placating to the notion that centrally located industry is either ill-suited and/or an eye-sore, a term many people have used when referring to the property. The "eyesore" is on Basso, not the existence of tractors and parts. Would Napa Auto Parts be the next "eyesore" that will need to be resolved? Then what, the deli…. and it goes on.

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I am a huge supporter of centrally located industry, but the ones we still have are only there because they make financial sense for the property owner. If we're talking about rethinking property rights, that's an entirely different conversation.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

... because all her friends were from SF, because THAT'S WHERE SHE RESIDES! This is her weekend home. Now, how someone like that knew about this workshop while nobody who walks their dog on a daily basis down Leland St. knew anything about a hotel, is beyond me!

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So, how do we keep people from out of town from buying second or third homes? How do we keep tourists from coming? Build a wall?

BTW, you make a great point about how she knew about the workshop when so many locals did not. Why do you think that is?

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

1) Just like Spring Hill Cheese bought and fully restore the old Petaluma Creamery, let's get a creamery in there and increase our artisinal cheese production. 2) Perhaps Ace hardware would like to move downtown for all of their garden/housekeeping wares so they can expand their tool and lumber where they are now. 3) Get a small electric car dealership to go in 4) I believe if we actually solicited for development proposals besides just tourist-oriented hotel developers, we would have some interesting and viable options.

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Spring Hill Cheese restored the building because it made financial sense for them to do so. Plain and simple. All your ideas are great, but those businesses are not stepping forward. Where are they? This lot has been available for decades.

There are empty and underutilized parcels all over town. Why are your favorite businesses and progressive thinkers not acting?

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

If more accommodations are a real need for this town, then lets talk about the airbnb. There are several already in town and more that could be incetivised.

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Really? Won't that drive prices up even more as investors pour in to buy all our single family homes to turn into vacation rentals? No, thank you!

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Lastly, to be true progressives, we need to be leaders in changing our society from one of consumerism based on desire to consumerism based of NEED.

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I agree with that idea, but how? Who's done it before? How does it work?

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

No we need a wellness center that can partner with our hospital so it stays open and viable. Do we NEED more cafes?! HELL NO. I have yet to want for coffee in this town. Do we NEED more fancy restaurants? I hear it's hard for the ones existing.

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So, who decides what we "need"? Then, who goes out and finds the business or service we need? Who's land does the needed business go on? Who tells the cafe owner that they can't open a shop? Who tells the restaurant to close because we don't "need" them? Might they some day tell me they "need" my house for some other purpose other than me living in it? I just don't get how this works. Please explain.

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

What we need is to not worry so much about the eye-sore if the business is thriving and providing jobs that are more than entry-level hospitality jobs.

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Let's be honest, the tractor company is there because Ron didn't want to spend a dime on the property and they were the only ones who would rent it as-is. I like the tractor business, but it's hardly a boon to local employment, industrial production or had much positive impact on the local economy. Maybe its on the "need" list?

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

What we NEED is our special subcommittee to host more than ONE workshop, in a room that is only prepared to hold maybe 50 people, talking to themselves and the same tiny handful of people in order to find out what we NEED!!!!!!! We need our city representatives to NOT put their spouses on special subcommittees, but rather REACH OUT- there's more than one person with planning/development/marketing/workshop experience. We need our city representatives to show up to these workshops and talk with folks and NOT put their own dots on the wall, because that's just listening to yourselves, not your community. We need workshops hosted at the library, school gym, take a day and go into some classrooms- YES, it's TOTALLY reasonable to expect the city representatives to "come to us" on something like this, when what you claim you want is "community input." In moments like this, they DO need to make their job to campaign for our future as a town and a community, not just the next upcoming election!

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What we really need is for people to pay attention, step up and take responsibility for being members of the community. There are two seats on the council open and only three people stepped up to run in time to actually be printed on the ballot. (One more joined in as a write in candidate). The General Plan meetings were attended by a handful of people. People don't show up to workshops, then complain about being left out.

Things only change when people with real ideas take action. Talk is plentiful but actions and real actionable ideas seem to be few.

Ted

Sounds like you actually don't want to hear, because instead of building, you took all of that time to shoot down. You want to find industrial businesses?! Get Citta Slow to talk to Slow Money and Farm Link…it worked for Marin Sun Farms in Petaluma!!! Our agricultural community needs processing facilities, you know…that thing the Barlow once was and was suppose to be again!! And your continued dismissal of what the tractor store provided this community is really disappointing, on so many levels. I particularly love you point, "Might they some day tell me they "need" my house for some other purpose other than me living in it?" Ironic, because that's EXACTLY what this town did to the tractor guys!

BTW- for those of you who don't know, the tractor shop is closed now because the owner died a few weeks ago…of a HEART ATTACK!! Can't imagine what stress he might have been under!! Maybe he would have passed away of a heart attack anyway, but now, because of the city's agenda, we will never know our contribution to his end. :thumbsup:

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

You are correct that the zoning is "Downtown Core", but ...

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I want let everybody know that you (Ted / 1104GT) are on the Sebastopol Design Review Board.

Thanks for your participation here!

I couldn't make to tonight's public hearing about the hotel at the Planning Commission. I hope some of you did attend and can share your thoughts with us. :waccosun:

That is an amazing article Nancy. Much food for thought as Sebastopol citizens and officials grapple with how to best manage change, as change is inevitable.

It is extremely insightful on the differences between US and European land and growth policies. I would encourage anyone to read it to think about whether to invite the proposed hotel in or look at alternatives that would support the local agriculture economy.

Notable quotes from the article:

"Although the percentage of Americans involved in agriculture is today only 1.4 percent, with a total of around 2.1 million farms, France by itself has some 730,000 farms in only 6 percent of the total land area, with 7 percent of its population employed in agriculture." (what a difference!)

"Although the notion of "locally-sourced" food products has lately gained some traction, this has not translated into much if any public policy.."

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Posted in reply to the post by nancypreb:

Here's an interesting article that pertains to how we think about urbanization based on our values here in the states. It appeared on the same FB thread discussing Healdburg's housing crisis due to it's gentrification. Some interesting points to ponder I think....https://oldurbanist.blogspot.com/201...landscape.html

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Didn't the city actively seek out hotel developers for the property, spending staff time to market as part of community economic development, knowing that transient occupancy tax is a rich source of government funding with no political downside? Am i missing something here? Isn't this proposal an example of proactive government policy?

I agree that increases in housing/rent costs in Sebastopol and the rest of Sonoma County are likely for many of the reasons you mention. However, I'd suggest that there are decisions that can be made and actions that can be taken that can minimize that.

For example, the new Hotel seems to prioritize being a "bridge" between downtown and the Barlow prioritizing the needs of the businesses in the Barlow while potentially exacerbating costs of housing for residents. To help offset possible side effects of this project Sebastopol could consider raising the City’s TOT (Transient Occupancy Tax charged tourists who stay at hotels) to help pay for affordable for housing.

Here is another resource or listing of possible solutions:

UC Berkeley's Urban Displacement Project listings and map of anti-displacement policies are on the books in every city and county in the Bay Area, based on an inventory of municipal codes completed in November 2015.https://www.urbandisplacement.org/policy-tools-2

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I agree with a lot of the concern about Sonoma County (and most of coastal California) becoming increasing expensive. ...

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Kitty, I don't know too much detail about these incubators, however, I have heard of them. I'd love to follow up with you on these ideas as I think there is no reason to not pursue such a concept for Sebastopol, despite this hotel fiasco. I'd love to work with you on developing it if you're interested.

All- The thing is this, despite the CVS/Hotel Sebastopol, this conversation has to continue and ACTION has to start being taken if, indeed, we want to salvage any reminisce of the history, and hopefully the future- all that we love- about this town. It really is up to us to preserve the integrity of Sebastopol. Think about what we as residents want as a concession for this influx of the 1%ers we're about to experience, despite reasonable and sound objection. While there is still one, and only one (in my estimation), possibility left for stopping this hotel through community protest, I fear that it's a done deal… the fabric of Sebastopol is about to change…forever. We now have joined the ranks of Napa, Sonoma, St. Helena, and Healdsburg.

But, foolish as I may be, I still think there is a way, a real viable possibility, of setting ourselves apart still by retaining, dare I say "capitalize" on, the "farm town" that we should take pride in being, as oppose to the "WINE towns" that I mentioned. Sure we have great wine, but we ALSO take GREAT pride in the DIVERSE agricultural identity of our town, which we still INSIST ON PROTECTING! We need to NOT forget about our tractor guys or their importance. I would like for this town to help, if they want it, to find a new location for them. If they're not interested in continuing the business, we then need to SOLICIT (just like we did the hotel) a NEW tractor company…. because our local Ag DEPENDS ON TRACTORS & PARTS! And we all still need to eat, and we all want to eat well, and that, folks, requires easily accessible tractors and parts.

And we need to preserve the Rural Residential and Rural Agricultural properties in our town. We need to be the town (unlike Healdsburg, Sonoma, Napa, St. Helena) who values our FOOD MORE than our wine and spirits, because FOOD feeds the children and our future- wine and spirits feed our fancies and desires.

We need to not stop here with thinking "proactively" about development. We need to think about what we would like to see next? Where? How?! We need to pay attention to the City…ALWAYS! We need to all participate...attend meetings, speak up, strategize, lobby for what WE think we need before we're told what we're going to get.

…my fifty cents

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

Some great ideas there, Nancy! I particularly like your idea of supporting agriculture. What about an artisan food company incubator? ...

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See what the city council candidates had to say about the hotel proposal at last night's Sebastopol City Council Forum at the Grange:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...9_20-05-53.png

https://i.imgur.com/yv1Iu.png

Hotel projects may change face of West County

Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:20 am | Updated: 5:19 pm, Wed Sep 28, 2016.
by Amie Windsor Sonoma West Staff Writer [email protected]

Sebastopol Hotel gets green light from planning commission and Guernewood Park Resort project is up for review

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...9_22-04-56.png

In the late hours of Tuesday night, the Sebastopol Planning Commission approved two resolutions paving the way for a new hotel in downtown Sebastopol.

The project, from Piazza Hospitality Group, is a 66-room hotel, ranging between two and four stories high, to be located at the current Sebastopol Tractor site, commonly referred to as the Diamond Lumberyard.
“I think this project will enhance the plaza and provide a bridge between the Barlow and Main Street,” Commissioner Colin Doyle said.

The building includes a lobby/reception area, retail space, artist-maker studios, wellness center, meeting rooms, six hostel rooms, restaurant, bar/lounge, public courtyard and an outdoor rooftop deck. The project will provide 120 parking spaces; 90 spots will be situated on the four parcels located at 6826 and 6824 Depot St. and 215 and 225 Brown St. Thirty spots will be located on the street surrounding the development.

In conjunction with car parking spaces, 62 bike spaces will also be provided. A bike locker room inside of the hotel will provide 26 spaces while outside racks will offer 36 bike parking spaces. Two spaces will provide 110-volt outlets to charge electric bicycles.

Before Piazza received the final OK, the commission had to approve use permits and zoning code amendments.

Use permits were approved for a reduction in the mandatory parking requirements. Per Sebastopol’s parking code, businesses must provide one parking space per 400 square feet of net floor area. This requirement called for 146 parking spaces to be added with the hotel; the 120 proposed spaces nets roughly a 16 percent reduction in required spaces.

W-Trans, the traffic consultant hired by the city, acknowledged peak parking usage will likely average 85 cars. The planning commission concurred the reduced parking spots will be more than adequate for the project.
Because the project provides more than 50 rooms, a special use permit to build over that limit in Sebastopol’s Downtown Core District was required and subsequently approved.

In addition to the use permits, a zoning code amendment was passed to increase the maximum allowed height of a building in the Downtown Core from three stories/40 feet to four stories/50 feet.

“The plan is unique and the General Plan draft is already asking for these new dimensions and increases,” Commissioner Evert Fernandez said.

A use permit for alcohol was also approved, despite Piazza lacking a concrete idea of the restaurant concept.
“It will likely sit 60 to 75 patrons,” Paolo Petrone, Piazza managing partner said.

A second zoning code amendment was approved to allow for valet and tandem parking of the four parcels.
The city council will have final approval on both zoning code amendments. No meeting date is yet set for discussion of the amendments.

The proposed project wasn’t without public criticism.

During public comment, a handful of long-time community members voiced fears that the hotel would change the small-town feel of Sebastopol by catering to wealthier tourists.

“I’ve been here for 42 years,” said Nancy Preblich. “I’ve been watching the transformation of the town for years and it’s disappointing, frustrating, infuriating.”

Michael Gillotti, creator of the Sebastopol Living Peace Wall agreed.

“I don’t think this is the right project for our town,” Gillotti said. “Its designed to bring elite people with a lot of money to the town.”

Fernandez also worried about “losing the small-town feel of the city.”

Other concerns centered around increased traffic to the Downtown Core. The W-Trans study indicated traffic increase would be minimum.

“Clearly the project will generate more traffic than the repair shop currently generates,” Planning Director Kenyon Webster said. “But the impact will be minimal.”

Despite the dissent, many project supporters also voiced opinions mirroring the commission’s final decision.
“This is a very important need to our community,” Duskie Estes of Zazu Kitchen said. “When a tourist comes to our community, they’ll have a base here. They’ll shop here. The tax revenue from this project will stay right here.”

The hotel is expected to raise roughly $350,000 a year in transient occupancy taxes.

The city has worked to redevelop the defunct site for more than a decade. Piazza became engaged in late 2015.

“We felt a hotel could be compatible with the goals of the community,” Piazza’s Circe Sher said. “It will bring economic vitality to the city and people to downtown. We like the location a lot.”

The town grows, and community shrinks, at least with high end hotels at the center. This is so not cittaslow. Rather sell the soul, for 350k/yr, we will regret this.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

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https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...9_22-04-56.png

Hotel projects may change face of West County

Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2016 9:20 am | Updated: 5:19 pm, Wed Sep 28, 2016.
by Amie Windsor Sonoma West Staff Writer [email protected]

Sebastopol Hotel gets green light from planning commission and Guernewood Park Resort project is up for review

n the late hours of Tuesday night, the Sebastopol Planning Commission approved two resolutions paving the way for a new hotel in downtown Sebastopol.
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According to the article, this site has been defunct for more than a decade (other than the tractor repair shop, I assume). That's a long time. Did anyone else step up with a vision, a plan and a budget? It takes quite a lot of effort and expertise to bring all three together.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

The town grows, and community shrinks, at least with high end hotels at the center. This is so not cittaslow. Rather sell the soul, for 350k/yr, we will regret this.

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Carefull what you ask for. Basso is an asshole. The tractor guy is dead so, the city wants the money and so, we get a minimegoapolis. You win kitty, was anyone else interested in the multiple properties? Yes! A vision, a plan, and a budget? The citty put that together, looking for the payoff. The interesting thing about selling your soul; the devil is really nice...

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

According to the article, this site has been defunct for more than a decade (other than the tractor repair shop, I assume). That's a long time. Did anyone else step up with a vision, a plan and a budget? It takes quite a lot of effort and expertise to bring all three together.

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Kitty, this is the same attitude that resulted in the new CVS, which no one wanted, and is a blemish on our downtown. There were alternatives proposed for the CVS site. The most appealing, I thought, was to refurbish the existing buildings into shops and cafes. However no one came forward with any money to fund the development, which included making repairs to streets and utilities. As a last resort, that would have taken the City of Sebastopol to fund it, or at least put some money into it. That was probably too heavy, complex, or controversial.

The new Hotel project is similar. The property owner wants to sell the property and make some money - that's the California real estate game. Maybe it's the best use for the site. While the greatest need is for housing, the site is probably too small and too expensive for housing. For the City to build affordable housing elsewhere, that would require vision, and funding, that the City may not have.

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

According to the article, this site has been defunct for more than a decade (other than the tractor repair shop, I assume). That's a long time. Did anyone else step up with a vision, a plan and a budget? It takes quite a lot of effort and expertise to bring all three together.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

There were alternatives proposed for the CVS site. The most appealing, I thought, was to refurbish the existing buildings into shops and cafes. However no one came forward with any money to fund the development, which included making repairs to streets and utilities.

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I think Kitty's point was that both the CVS and lumber yard sites sat vacant for years, even decades, and no one came forward with viable proposals until CVS and the hotel. What you name as "alternatives" never existed as such. They were only "ideas". A real alternative must include a plan, leadership and funding. Just getting through the initial phases of our development process costs tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

As a last resort, that would have taken the City of Sebastopol to fund it, or at least put some money into it. That was probably too heavy, complex, or controversial.

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Since the demise of our Redevelopment agency and after the loss of two huge tax revenue creating businesses, the City has not been in any financial position to put money into anything. They have been short staffed and running on a crazy tight budget for years. And with our polarized population, the City becoming a proactive force in real estate development puts them in a very challenging position.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

For the City to build affordable housing elsewhere, that would require vision, and funding, that the City may not have.

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We can't look to the City to build housing. They don't have any money. Only private development is going to do it. To make it happen, we need to create incentives that entice private development. Otherwise, it won't happen.

Hi Tommy, I'm not expressing an "attitude" -- I'm asking a simple question. Did anyone else step up with a vision, a plan and a budget? Great ideas abound. Can and do they get funded? Not without a lot of hard work, expertise and resources around them. That's just fact, not attitude. This "real estate game" you refer to is not exclusive to California. It's pretty much wherever private ownership exists, for better or worse.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

Kitty, this is the same attitude that resulted in the new CVS, which no one wanted, and is a blemish on our downtown. There were alternatives proposed for the CVS site. The most appealing, I thought, was to refurbish the existing buildings into shops and cafes. However no one came forward with any money to fund the development, which included making repairs to streets and utilities. As a last resort, that would have taken the City of Sebastopol to fund it, or at least put some money into it. That was probably too heavy, complex, or controversial.

The new Hotel project is similar. The property owner wants to sell the property and make some money - that's the California real estate game. Maybe it's the best use for the site. While the greatest need is for housing, the site is probably too small and too expensive for housing. For the City to build affordable housing elsewhere, that would require vision, and funding, that the City may not have.

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You needn't get snarky with me, rossmen. I've won nothing. My favorite idea for the space was an artisan food company incubator that would assist local entrepreneurs and farmers. But I don't have the resources to make such a vision come true. Ideas are easy. Execution is hard..

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Carefull what you ask for. Basso is an asshole. The tractor guy is dead so, the city wants the money and so, we get a minimegoapolis. You win kitty, was anyone else interested in the multiple properties? Yes! A vision, a plan, and a budget? The citty put that together, looking for the payoff. The interesting thing about selling your soul; the devil is really nice...

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Sorry, can't even rememder why i wrote that line, no offence intended. I have enjoyed reading your posts about the hotei and learned much from them. I know far less about this development and have contributed very little to the discussion. I did contemplate purchasing the parking lot parcel a yr or two ago for a medical building but then decided to put off that goal for a few years.

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Posted in reply to the post by KittyW:

You needn't get snarky with me, rossmen....

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1911 map of Sebastopol showing the U.S. Hotel located at McKinley and North Main Street. I will check the microfilm records of the Sebastopol Times newspaper to see what was written about this hotel. Coincidentally, the cobbler workshop that is part of the hotel complex is in the same location as my boot shop is today.

Awesome, Michael! Did you know this before? Or did it just come to light? Just curious... :heart:
Rev. BE

So what, they sat vacant for years. Big deal. Always amazing to me that something MUST be built on vacant or un-used land. I liked the look of those old buildings in their disrepair.

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

I think Kitty's point was that both the CVS and lumber yard sites sat vacant for years,...

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A small hotel there would't be so bad. But in a town filled with artists they have to design an oversized abomination like that. What a mess.

Threat was involved. Without the 4 stories and 50 ft (now part of the new general plan draft), the nice people would take their 350k/yr and go home to healdtouristburg. Maybe this is why jacob and eider quit. When the framing goes up, they know it will be cvs redux.

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Posted in reply to the post by Goat Rock Ukulele:

A small hotel there would't be so bad. But in a town filled with artists they have to design an oversized abomination like that. What a mess.

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The city has built housing (and taken it out), and put money into optional projects, like cittyslow. What businesses are you citing? Sebtown is doing fine budget wise, better than any other municipality in soco through the hard years, there is still a million that could be cut by contracting with the county for police services.

The hotel proposal is clearly proactive city planning for budget abundance, other citizen desires? Not!

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Posted in reply to the post by 1104GT:

...Since the demise of our Redevelopment agency and after the loss of two huge tax revenue creating businesses, the City has not been in any financial position to put money into anything. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Allorrah Be:

Awesome, Michael! Did you know this before? Or did it just come to light? Just curious...

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This 1911 map has been at my boot shop for a long time so yes, I have been aware of the fact that Sebastopol has previously had hotels in the downtown core. I will check the archive maps to see what other hotels were in town over the years. Just think, in one-hundred years, the new Hotel Sebastopol may be just a memory on an old map.

Who said that something MUST be built? Probably the owners felt that way, but that was not the point of the post that mentioned how long the lot had been vacant. The point was that anyone could have predicted with some certainty that under all the circumstances it almost certainly would be built on, and had ample opportunity to propose a different scheme. Sure, we all have our own vision of what might (or should) be built there, including leaving it as it was. Unfortunately we live under a system that requires more than just ideas and determination; it requires that someone have a workable plan that they can raise the money to pay for. Someone who agreed with you could have bought the property and not developed it, but nobody stepped forward. Finally someone did come up with money and a plan, so that is what is being proposed. Personally I have some admiration for their willingness to step into the buzz saw of Sebastopol land use politics.

Patrick Brinton

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Posted in reply to the post by JayS:

So what, they sat vacant for years. Big deal. Always amazing to me that something MUST be built on vacant or un-used land. I liked the look of those old buildings in their disrepair.

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:thumbsup:The working class with families are too busy to see what Busi-ness-es are formulating their profit margins on... And mmm I wonder how many of the "public" actually passed that sign on the less traveled side of fence there... I can see you were plugged in cause you may have a personal profit involved. Maybe, maybe not? But seems the most people are the ones who have or are to profit that have been mostly informed... :thumbsup:

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Posted in reply to the post by sealwatcher:

Not at all familiar except through rumors over the last few months. H...

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And nothing personal... love your boots and character. And understand why you would approve of hotel. I am just feeling a major "fascist capitalistic energy" here... Duh... and truly feel this was swept under the feet of the masses when you say "public" regarding Sebastopol... And that is not justice as I know it... anywho! Food for thought!:thumbsup::waccosun::heart::waccosun:

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Posted in reply to the post by Michael Anthony:

This 1911 map has been at my boot shop for a long time so yes, I have been aware of the fact that Sebastopol has previously had hotels in the downtown core. I will check the archive maps to see what other hotels were in town over the years. Just think, in one-hundred years, the new Hotel Sebastopol may be just a memory on an old map.

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Hey Rossmen, you're on the right track about the out-of-town developers making it clear that they would take their toys and go home if they don't get the nod for their luxury liner. There is a subtle difference in the specifics that are on the table and I only mention it because technically it's not a done deal yet.

The developer will not build if he can't get 66 rooms. He says “the numbers just don't work”. There was no approval needed for the number of rooms but as you cited, the approval pending is for the 4^th story at 50 feet. That particular zoning code amendment request is scheduled for City Council Public Hearing on November 1^st. Also scheduled for that same City Council Public Hearing is the approval for the parking amendment that they have requested. There's no saying at this point what they would do if they did not get the code amendment approval for their structure height. Perhaps they would pack up and go home, but I doubt it. I suspect escrow has already closed and right about now all of the stakeholders in direct line to benefit at our expense are delighted with their successful coup.

If for some reason, stranger than fiction, the 4 story 50 foot code amendment was not approved by City Council I suppose Mr. Developer could re-design and re-submit plans. If he could accommodate his 66 room profit requirements in a project no taller than 3 stories at 40 feet he'd be good to go. No City Council approval would be needed if there was no code amendment request but I suspect that the new plans would need to go back to the Planning Commission for another public hearing and approval. This fairytale version does not address the parking code amendment. That too would either need City Council approval or a new parking plan would need to be presented that met parking requirements without a code amendment. I'm guessing you can all see where this could go.

That having been said, if we really don't want a luxury liner dropped in our front yard then the opportunity to stop Hotel Sebastatour is still within reach. Admittedly this is a long-shot – but if you can envision 100 plus people crammed in the Youth Annex on November 1^st just saying NO, it might be difficult for our public servants to ignore the will of the people.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Threat was involved. Without the 4 stories and 50 ft (now part of the new general plan draft), the nice people would take their 350k/yr and go home to healdtouristburg. Maybe this is why jacob and eider quit. When the framing goes up, they know it will be cvs redux.

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I'm wondering what else could be built there? It's a relatively small property, on a major street, with alot of street frontage, yet minimal depth and not much room for parking. Other than a fairy godmother buying it & giving it to the City for a park... it'd probably be retail... something like the shops on Brown Street, where the Falafel place is. I doubt there's a big demand for more retail - besides the Barlow and Main Street - there's limited parking, alot of traffic, it's not Montgomery Village or Healdsburg with the Square & bunches of restaurants & tasting rooms.

Affordable housing would require government funding, which there's not an abundance of. There could be market rate apartments, townhouses, or condos there... maybe mixed use

A small hotel is the other option - logical, because out-of-towners might want to stay downtown, where there's more activity. There is alot of energy against the 1% tourists, not to become another Healdsburg, & push all the locals out. The chances of that are pretty remote. The nature of the towns is quite different. Healdsburg, with it's large spacious square, location a few blocks off 101, became the wine & tourist destination as a result of it's own planning. Sebastopol, at the intersection of two major highways, doesn't have the "walk about feel & spaciousness" of Healdsburg,so it's unlikely it could become a mini Healdsburg.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

..... I doubt there's a big demand for more retail - besides the Barlow and Main Street - there's limited parking, alot of traffic, it's not Montgomery Village or Healdsburg with the Square & bunches of restaurants & tasting rooms.

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yet. But you're right, for more retail you probably need a source of customers. Which leads to:

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...A small hotel is the other option - logical, because out-of-towners might want to stay downtown, where there's more activity.

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clearly this hotel looks huge to some people. I don't think it does, but I wouldn't venture to guess (this forum doesn't work as a replacement for a survey) how many also feel that way.

Personally I would have preferred that Sebastopol remained a working town, with a real tractor store, ag businesses, even a junkyard for that matter, than turn into a more rural Healdsburgish place. But I think that's ship is sailing or even sinking.

I am glad to see this hotel proposal get a unanimous approval by the city council. I think it will beautify downtown, while providing many common amenities and tax revenue.

https://i.imgur.com/yv1Iu.png
Hotel Sebastopol gets final ok
Wednesday, January 18, 2017 11:40 am
By Amie Windsor Staff Writer [email protected]

Developer excited to get project going

After more than two years of investing time, money and patience into their project, the Piazza Hospitality Group received final approval for Hotel Sebastopol Tuesday night. The city council unanimously approved zoning code amendments for the downtown core district allowing for buildings with residential use on the top two floors to apply for use permits for heights of four stories (50 feet) and allowing for future developers to apply for use permits for non-standard parking arrangements.

The zoning code amendments allow the 66-room hotel to reach four stories in height and provide valet parking to its patrons in a lot located behind the hotel site on Depot Street.

The site will include the hotel as well as a restaurant, bar and lounge, meeting/event space, rooftop deck, wellness center, gardens, retail spaces and artist/maker studios. The rooftop deck and a first story outdoor courtyard will be open to the public.

The initial zoning code amendment changed the maximum height for all buildings with residential uses to four stories or 50 feet, a move which worried the city council.

“We’re creating a lot of four story buildings in our downtown core,” said councilmember Sarah Glade Gurney.
To maintain control of growth, the city council added the requirement of a use permit for all four story/50-foot buildings.

Continues here

I do like most of the drawings I've seen of the building. Hopefully they aren't changed much (as often happens between concept and construction) and the aesthetic of the hotel is representative of the drawings. I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

Do you think $350-$500 too expensive... its relevant I guess... But yeah, that's the ticket... Wonder what the "Hostel" rooms there will go for? Bless

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Posted in reply to the post by vlondi:

... I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

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Posted in reply to the post by newclay:

Do you think $350-$500 too expensive...

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It sounds expensive, but it also depends on the quality of rooms. Those prices sound closer to a rather nice hotel room in a metro city and not a small town.

"I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city"

What does this mean? That AirBnB rentals in Sebastopol are a problem, possibly deflecting guests from staying in a grand, new, expensive hotel? The largest number of AirBnB hosts are now older women; most are retired and cannot keep up with the ongoing expenses of living here in Sebastopol. I've been her 40 years and have seen, just since late 90's, water rates go up over 200%....and more....For many of us who have attended lots of City Council meetings, have stood up for and marched in our parade for the kind of Sebastopol the town folks want, etc., we are the ones who will be driven out if we can't rent out parts of our homes to guests, who would like to 'live' in the little town while they visit, rather than stay in a hotel room.

It's been a lot of pluses for all of us. What is the problem for you?

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Posted in reply to the post by vlondi:

I do like most of the drawings I've seen of the building. Hopefully they aren't changed much (as often happens between concept and construction) and the aesthetic of the hotel is representative of the drawings. I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

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Most studies conducted by the travel and tourism industry show that the typical Airbnb customer (especially in a non-urban area like ours) is unlikely to stay in a hotel rather than an Airbnb. They're looking for a different type of experience. Here's a link to a study released yesterday that states "[airbnb's] lower occupancy and price point has prevented it from materially hindering hotel-room demand, hospitality research firm STR said...Airbnb's peak days (weekends) differed from that of hotels (mid-week), and that the two accommodations sources often served different markets."

So, it doesn't look like this hotel will have much impact on Airbnb, either way. What's going to impact Airbnb is the county cracking down on unpermitted uses and requiring the purchase of a $750 license.

Thank you Hollyanna: I agree with you. I was wondering what the person who posted the comment I quoted meant by her remark? There are two different sets of permit requirements for AirBnB--the county fees and fees for operating inside the city limits of Sebastopol The City of Sebastopol has not gotten it's act together to make it clear and reasonable to obtain the proper permits to operate. I've tried to get this going for two years, but have been unsuccessful. Wondering if there is a bias against AirBnB's inside the city limit? I think it's a great idea myself, dg.

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Posted in reply to the post by Hollyanna:

...So, it doesn't look like this hotel will have much impact on Airbnb, either way. What's going to impact Airbnb is the county cracking down on unpermitted uses and requiring the purchase of a $750 license.

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Your fears are real. The drawings are a chimera, carefully perspective to hide the hightfull truth. People will scream when the steel goes up, even more than cvs. The rooms now are pricey, 3-600/nite, and look at who the developers cater to, how much are rich wine tourists willing to pay? Airbnb will look good in comparison for travel shoppers with modern savy. We will find the consequences of becoming a 1% party town. The maker spaces will be gone.

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Posted in reply to the post by vlondi:

I do like most of the drawings I've seen of the building. Hopefully they aren't changed much (as often happens between concept and construction) and the aesthetic of the hotel is representative of the drawings. I also hope the rooms aren't too expensive or else people will still flock to the AirBnBs of the city.

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I agree w/rossmen; the hotel will be much taller and make more of an impact than we think. Hello, $300- 600 are rich people hotel rooms! I worked on the Plaza in Sonoma in the '80's when it was still a functioning town and I saw the same thing happen there, and in Healdsburg when they put in their big hotel on the plaza. Those towns are now both caricatures of their former selves and exist as adjuncts to the wine tourism industry. Tourism is a Bad Deal for local folks. My heart breaks to think my groovy little town is the next Healdsburg.

WOW; I's surprised how little opposition there is for this;

Its like OK; well, our govt. is gone ... (nyne!!,then T. Rumphasaurus ) we cannot resist the steel clamp industrial Barlow architecture a sort of faux "community" space, CVS VADER , and now well phuque it who needs a town square with soul and dignity, just roll up the limos,pile on the money, and what?:wink2: maybe helicopters to get in and out of town on a weekend? or we could go like walnut creek,and just build a double decker freeway so people can get directly to Bodega without bothering the tourists! (just think of the good homeless camping below!! ) oops wait I don't live in Sebastopol any more,none of MY bz .... but waiting in LINE sure gets old on hwy12. :( when I came here in 1998 I remember the old timers sitting in front of "Food for Thought"(wf's ) saying "this town has lost it's character" I thought they were wrong~~~~~~~ hmmm...:2cents:

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Posted in reply to the post by nicofrog:

WOW; I's surprised how little opposition there is for this;~~~~ hmmm.

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I hear ya, friend. At the same time, I think with this issue it just feels good to either be "for something" or at least not opposed to it. I did raise a flag at the irony of a boutique hotel replacing a tractor supply business, but the ag community was farming underwater all winter AND spring, so I think the point was lost. Anyway, I hope we love the hotel and it adds something positive and beautiful to town.

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Posted in reply to the post by sealwatcher:

So, we're no longer a small town. When did that happen? ...

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Another funny simple factor the SUN will take a good hour or two longer to rise in the park !
Say, maybe that will cut back on vagrants there! go Ho Tell !

all it's going to add are higher rents, displaced persons, and let's here it for west county robbery- oh, i mean,
snobbery

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Posted in reply to the post by Laguna Farm:

I hear ya, friend. At the same time, I think with this issue it just feels good to either be "for something" or at least not opposed to it. I did raise a flag at the irony of a boutique hotel replacing a tractor supply business, but the ag community was farming underwater all winter AND spring, so I think the point was lost. Anyway, I hope we love the hotel and it adds something positive and beautiful to town.

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