Double Homicide in Sebastopol Nov 23

Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office investigates double homicide.

On November 23, 2015 at approximately 9:28 AM, the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office responded to a report of a double homicide. A man called our dispatch center stating that he thought his nephew had just killed his brother and sister-in-law at a residence on Sexton Road, in the area known as Twin Hills outside of Sebastopol, in the unincorporated region of Sonoma County. The man had seen the couple on the floor inside the house covered with blood, as well as his nephew covered in blood.

Patrol Deputies went to the house at 1220 Sexton Road. They had paramedics respond as well. The California Highway Patrol provided support from above with their helicopter, H30.

The Deputies found two people, a man and a woman, unresponsive inside the home. The pair suffered multiple wounds from a sharp object. They were both declared dead at the scene. A possible weapon was found within the house.

Detectives from the Violent Crimes Investigations unit responded and assumed control of the case. The CSI Detective team and Detectives from other investigations units also assisted.

The suspect was identified as Nathan Alexander Wilson, a 34 year old male, who lived on the property with his parents. Nathan was last seen near a shed on the property, but had left likely driving his black Toyota truck. Deputies and other law enforcement agencies were alerted to Be On The Lookout for him and his truck. They went to the addresses of family members and friends in case Nathan was headed to their homes. Deputies also checked locations where he was known to frequent. He was known to carry knives and was very strong.

The deceased are identified as David and Adrienne Wilson, husband a wife, and parents of the suspect.

UPDATE
Advisory: Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office searching for murder suspect.

The Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office is asking the public’s help in locating a man suspected in the murder of two people in the in the area known as Twin Hills outside of Sebastopol, in the unincorporated region of Sonoma County.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...3_13-24-53.png

Detectives from our Violent Crimes Investigations unit are releasing a photograph of the prime suspect, Nathan Alexander Wilson. Wilson is a 34 year old, white male adult. He is 6’01” tall, described as having a thin build, dark blonde (almost brown) hair, and green eyes. He was last seen wearing green pants and an unknown colored shirt.

Wilson is likely driving a black 2006 Toyota 4WD truck, California License plate of 8S95610. It has a regular cab, short bed and after-market tires.

We have alerted law enforcement agencies throughout the region.

If a member of the public sees Wilson or his truck – DO NOT APPROACH - but please immediately call 911, the Sonoma County Sheriff’s Office dispatch center at 707-565-2121 or your local law enforcement agency.

Dave and Adrianne have been my dear friends for 35 years. I played at their wedding and joked with them about the naming of all three of their children. I'm devastated and in shock.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

...The deceased are identified as David and Adrienne Wilson, husband a wife, and parents of the suspect...

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I'm very sorry that this brings shock and sadness to you, as it must to many. I'm hoping that this man is caught. We had a murder in Rohnert Park last week, and the suspect was caught soon after.

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

Dave and Adrianne have been my dear friends for 35 years. I played at their wedding and joked with them about the naming of all three of their children. I'm devastated and in shock.

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the suspect was taken into custody yesterday.
two points are important.
the family had struggled with mental health issues with their son, or as those who want social change say, brain chemistry imbalances.
the majority of all murder victims are killed by people they know.
this is not "typical" domestic violence, think oj simpson for common elements [husband/wife, history of battering, jekyl/hyde personality, control/isolation (at least for the d.v.), usually escalating when a woman leaves the situation.]
important to note, the son lived at home/ on the property.
as a mom who struggles with good options for children/adult children, i wish i had known this mom.
resources are most difficult to come by. answers are few.
as i speak up, i find more people with family members who have a child/adult child/relative with a severe brain chemistry imbalance.
hope there will be less stigma for people who are born with brain chemical imbalances. perhaps with talking we might in my lifetime have some good options for people with brain chemistry imbalances.
as i read the article in the pd, i thought how the uncle, brother of the father, was shocked that this was a possibility.
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4...allery=4810387
so many people on all sides of this issue need supportive communities to address the pain. for many "places to go" provide support,find hope. there are few.
on another note my partner said we the only local timely news is on the internet. (lst read about this in "nextdoor".) sad that neither of our local major radio stations that had reporting no longer radio cover local news.

To set the record straight, I will share some insights with you. They moved to Forestville from Hayward 15+ years ago to have good schools available to their children. All of the kids have had "mental health" issues, despite the fact that they evolved from a tremendously loving, supportive family and extended family. I'm only going to mention this because of your desire to have good options for your own children: these three were raised in the most permissive of all environments, having opportunity to experiment with alcohol, drugs and sex before they were even 10. [IMHO, children need guidance and boundaries and rules.] I personally know a great deal about mental health issues and we could debate the nature/nurture issue to the end of time. Just know this--Nathan was not a nonfunctional adult "living at home." He was a smart, successful plumber and carpenter with amazing skills and talents who chose a lot of bad paths to follow. One of the greatest tragedies is that at age 34, he has now chosen to throw away the rest of his life.

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

...the family had struggled with mental health issues with their son, or as those who want social change say, brain chemistry imbalances...

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Something is amiss about this. Here we have parents who want their children in good schools, yet raise them in a very permissive environment, which allowed experimentation with alcohol, drugs, and sex before they were 10. They could have done that in Hayward. Good schools don't make up for the devastating effects of early childhood permissiveness with substances you mentioned, which could be mentally and socially unbalancing.

Also, I wonder why this smart, successful plumber and carpenter was living at home. Maybe it was because of some of these unwise (not smart) choices he made? Was he a functional adult with "mental health issues" living at home, with loving parents? Something seems incongruent about the parent's choices also.

He didn't make a conscious choice to "throw his life away". I would tend to believe that he had suppressed rage against his loving, permissive parents, which caused his irrational impulse to kill them. When I look at his picture, I see an angry man, and one I'd keep my distance from if I met him.

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

To set the record straight, I will share some insights with you...

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

...When I look at his picture, I see an angry man, and one I'd keep my distance from if I met him.

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The picture you see is a mug shot from a previous offense. In real life he did not appear that way. My wife, being a friend of their family, has hired him many times to work on our house. He never appeared threatening ever.

We hadn't seen him in 2.5 years and maybe he made bad choices since then but please do not judge this man by his picture. It does not reflect the person we knew.

We will miss our friends David and Adrianne so much. We wouldn't have moved up here to Sonoma County if not for them. They steered us to good things while we found our way around.

Rest in Peace David and Adrianne. We still love you even if you have left us.

yes, someone who came to the point that he did needs attention for the deep disturbances he suffers. what one does to another, one does to oneself. which means he is a danger to himself as well as to others. Life long intensity and tremendous pain and confusion and violence. Point is, care rather than punishment, meaning attention to mental / emotional illness~

Care rather than punishment is a fantasy. The imprisonment of the mentally ill is a national disgrace. However, the alternatives are not easy. Assuming that "voices" told this man to kill his parents, how can we protect ourselves if "care" doesn't work? It's a complex problem: let's face it/

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Posted in reply to the post by santoshimatajaya:

yes, someone who came to the point that he did needs attention for the deep disturbances he suffers. what one does to another, one does to oneself. which means he is a danger to himself as well as to others. Life long intensity and tremendous pain and confusion and violence. Point is, care rather than punishment, meaning attention to mental / emotional illness~

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I agree. I also believe that anyone who uses violence in words or actions is extremely out of balance. Whether this is from early environment (lack of nurture) or inherited (nature) or drug induced, (chemical) innocent people become targets and are harmed or killed. Our laws seek punishment through incarceration in order to protect those who are a danger to themselves or others. But in these jails and prisons, they become the targets of more violence, from guards and authorities who are themselves out of balance. The difference is that they've been able to land a job where their violence and killing is sanctioned.

Many times, these tendencies can be seen in childhood. Any child who tortures an animal will more than likely do the same to another child, and eventually grow up to be an abusing adult. Sometimes these children learn from their parents who are their first role models, and then continue the pattern with their own children.

My own brother showed extreme anger when he was just an infant. He was born into a violent bipolar family, and was later also diagnosed. He was jailed and institutionalized several times. He joined the army, but after about a year was discharged due to violence and disobedience. He was unable to hold a job, though he was a mental genius.

I banned him from visiting my young children because I was afraid for them, and the effect of his influence. He met one of my sons on the sly, and gave him LSD at 12. I didn't find out until much later when my son told me.

During the time Nixon was president, he publicly threatened to kill him. The FBI arrived at my door only a few days later to investigate this possibility. They wanted to know if he had guns. I didn't know for sure, but didn't think so, mainly because he didn't have much money.

He was a tortured soul, and refused to take medication unless he was forced to. He said it made him feel like a vegetable. He ended his life at 39 with a gun to his head.

The inherited signs of imbalance were there from the beginning, and thrived in a violent environment. He turned to LSD to find meaning in his life. I don't know if he ever did, even for a brief time.

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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:

Care rather than punishment is a fantasy. The imprisonment of the mentally ill is a national disgrace. However, the alternatives are not easy. Assuming that "voices" told this man to kill his parents, how can we protect ourselves if "care" doesn't work? It's a complex problem: let's face it/

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:heart:

This happened across the street from me. I did not know the family. I want to thank Sonoma County Sheriff's dept for handling the case well. I almost slept in the office that night, but found out that we were safe and was just exhausted emotionally. My heart goes out to the friends, family and loved ones of the deceased and their son.

There is no easy way to cope with this issue, or with the stigma that goes with it. If each one of us took a few hours of our life to learn about mental illness, the literacy surrounding it would improve lives. I wish you all a wonderful holiday season and as we search our hearts for answers I hope each of us who is effected can move through the shock, grief and into deeper understanding.

There are so many talented healers in our community and I recommend self care and spiritual practices in all instances to restore balance. Here is the awareness website. Many blessings. https://www.nami.org/miaw. Love to Barry and linda this Holiday seaon for hosting this wonderful forum.

:Yinyangv:

wow, i'm a bit shocked by the supposed input regarding parenting, mental illness, family dynamics, and presumptions/assumptions about how this couple parented for better or worse, etc. etc. ? Tread softly, ey
Families are really, really complex and as a parent of six grown children myself, all i can say, "it is not a walk in the park"!

what works today, might not tomorrow. As parents, we try to bring our children through consciously and lovingly, we just "know", these are gonna be the best kids ever, and we are gonna be the best parents ever!

And time goes by, and we ask ourselves many questions, we doubt ourselves, we become insufferable when things are going so perfectly, we think "how easy it is to raise children" and "we got it Down"!...and then, the next day, we fall on our faces and wonder what the heck happened?

I'm just saying, we don't know the dance of family, every one is different, and sometimes so Painfully Different!
There for the Grace of God!

peace
beshiva

and, i want to add, it always pains me, when something so tragic happens in a neighborhood, and when neighbors are asked questions, so many say, "i didn't know them", or they "seemed nice" or "who would have known". ?
it speaks volumes to how little we know these days about much, our neighbors, our children, our communities, but how often people speak about the Kardashians, or movies, or deals that are coming up.
just makes me a bit sad how far removed we really are from one another, yet live so close.
peace
beshiva

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Posted in reply to the post by hezsez:

...This happened across the street from me. I did not know the family. ...

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When things like murder, suicide, child abuse, rape, or any number of undesirable and shocking activities happen in a community, there will naturally be shock, reactions, questions, assumptions, including fear, especially if the perpetrator is still around.

My response came from reading what were facts about the extremely permissive parenting, which allowed experimentation with drugs and sex at an early age. I haven't seen any response that indicated that could not have been an influence. This is not to condemn the parents; it's an observed factor that most people would recognize as undesirable. I'd welcome comments that would indicate otherwise.

Parents are people, and they can only be where they're at. It's not about blame. It's about connecting the dots of the factors involved, and coming to some well understood and documented conclusions.

If you let a young child out alone, or even leave that child alone in a house, what are the chances that something undesirable will happen? Why? Because children aren't developed enough to avoid harmful things, even if you tell them. I remember telling a 3 yr. old not to touch a hot iron. He immediately touched it, and suffered a burn.

Being a parent is a heavy responsibility that many aren't really equipped for, but can't be reversed. If a parent is ill, physically or mentally, the children will be at the effect of that. How can they not? Some can overcome this early disadvantage, but others cannot. Some parents can also overcome their own destructive patterns carried forward from their ancestry.

If those effects create a person who follows an inner voice to do violence, that person must be stopped for the sake of others in the community. How they are stopped in our culture, leaves a lot to be desired. Every culture has a way to protect the community from further harm, sometimes permanently. This too is a complex issue.

Those who are involved directly, respond in various ways that differ from those of us who are only peripherally affected. It's all part of the complex human response, depending on where we are in our hearts and minds coming from our own life experience. As I mentioned previously, I banned my own bi-polar brother from coming to my home, as a way to protect my own young children. Many may see this act as cruel, heartless and uncaring, but I was acting like any mother bear would, when danger was apparent. I defended my offspring with a vengeance. I knew that I could even resort to violence if necessary to protect them from physical or emotional harm.

People talk about God's grace. "If not for the grace of God...." I cannot accept that a God would grace some, and not others. Is all our experience coming from the "grace of "or lack of, apart from our own decisions? Does anyone believe their lives are ruled by luck? This is another topic for another thread....

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Posted in reply to the post by beshiva:

wow, i'm a bit shocked by the supposed input regarding parenting, mental illness, family dynamics, and presumptions/assumptions about how this couple parented for better or worse, etc. etc. ? Tread softly, ey....

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I just want to add to Shandi's post that I too was surprised and concerned that someone stating they knew the family posted that the children were exposed to sex and drugs etc before the age of ten. To me this is not permissive parenting or allowing a child to "experiment"---it is child abuse of a very severe kind.
On the other hand, I didn't know these people or whether the poster of this info was being accurate.

Let's cut Shandi some slack here. She stated some very relevant facts about what it is like to deal with mental illness and what some of the issues are for families.

That said, let's hope that as a tribute to David and Adrienne and other victims (including their son) that we neither blame or make excuses, but make an effort to learn from this tragedy.
& Thanks to the poster who recommended NAMI as an excellent resource.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

...My response came from reading what were facts about the extremely permissive parenting, ...

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Communities of Character
NOV. 27, 2015
David Brooks-The New York Times

We live in an individualistic age. As Marc J. Dunkelman documents in his book “The Vanishing Neighbor,” people tend to have their close group of inner-ring family and friends and then a vast online outer-ring network of contacts, but they are less likely to be involved in middle-ring community organizations.
But occasionally I stumble across a loving, charismatic and super-tight neighborhood organization. Very often it’s a really good school.

Continues here

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Posted in reply to the post by beshiva:

and, i want to add, it always pains me, when something so tragic happens in a neighborhood, and when neighbors are asked questions, so many say, "i didn't know them", or they "seemed nice" or "who would have known". ?
it speaks volumes to how little we know these days about much, our neighbors, our children, our communities,...

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

My response came from reading what were facts about the extremely permissive parenting, which allowed experimentation with drugs and sex at an early age.

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These are not facts, this is hear say.

Claire, thank you... I have continued to be appalled by the tenet of this conversation by folks I would otherwise have thought to be informed, compassionate and progressive. Gossip, hearsay, and uninformed opinions are all fine and dandy, saying more about the speaker than the situation. So to that end, this has been eye opening but also reflects the small minded, fearful and frequently petty minded people comfortably ensconced in this west county haven that has a charade of posing at being what it most obviously is not... remembering this: No artist tolerates reality. -Neitzsche
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAqAmLSIGU8

Recent posts indicate that your comments are "hearsay" (these three were raised in the most permissive of all environments, having opportunity to experiment with alcohol, drugs and sex before they were even 10). Can you speak to your knowledge of this, "to set the record straight"?

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

To set the record straight, I will share some insights with you...

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It seems that a few people knew this family, so let them speak about this, and confirm what's true, and not hearsay. Claire, do you know the truth? Please share it, rather than imply that it's hearsay. The family and our community needs that.

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

These are not facts, this is hear say.

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I believe what this community needs at this time is compassion and love. Additionally, we could use stronger networks of support for families that have members with serious mental illnesses in it.

It is beyond sickening to me that anyone would choose the moments after such an incredible tragedy to scrutinize the parenting choices of the victims.

I have never been so repulsed by a posting on Wacco.

I think that this conversation has gone on long enough. I said that I knew this family for 35 years and have spent many, many days of my life with them. The whole point here is that it's crazy to jump to conclusions about what happened and why. We don't need a lot of rants about the failure of mental health services in our country. This situation is very complicated and has both nature-ish and nurture-ish roots. End of story. It's a huge tragedy for anyone who knows the family.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Recent posts indicate that your comments are "hearsay" ...Can you speak to your knowledge of this, "to set the record straight"?

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Even if I "knew the truth" it would still be hearsay.

I think it's incredibly hurtful and destructive to denigrate these murdered parents of a terribly troubled son, especially at this time. Since when is it ok to blame the victims and to bring private family issues out in this manner for the whole community to pass judgment on? How can anyone think this is appropriate?

Yes, let's have the mental illness discussion and spread the word about the wonderful work of NAMI. Yes. let's talk about permissive parenting et al, but not now and not in this way.

Thank you for clarifying your earlier post. As I posted before, I believe that we as a community should stop trading barbs and blame but rather, focus on how we can educate ourselves---as a community and individuals-- to prevent these tragedies. Where I disagree is that I believe we DO need "a lot of rants about the failure of mental health services in our country.," The problem is real.

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

I think that this conversation has gone on long enough...

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Nobody that I've read here has denigrated these parents or blamed the victims. Someone who knew them stepped up to bring clarity to the narrative. That's all. Nobody is passing judgment, we are assimilating the facts. What we do with these facts is what is important.

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

...I think it's incredibly hurtful and destructive to denigrate these murdered parents ...

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Really! ugh....
there is less clarity today than ever..
Assimilating facts? That's a slippery slope!
how presumptuous that any of us need to know a damn thing..

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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:

Nobody that I've read here has denigrated these parents or blamed the victims. ...

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Unfortunately it's not the " End of story", although there are many of us that wish it was.

Just as when Andy Lopez and Travon Martin were killed, there was community outrage, and continues to be. Now we have another young black man shot down, and the end of that story is nowhere near.

The private family details of parental permissiveness might have gone unrevealed for awhile, but for some reason that was shared immediately with the community. More shall be revealed, and unfortunately, nothing will stop it.

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

I think that this conversation has gone on long enough. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:

Nobody that I've read here has denigrated these parents or blamed the victims. ..... Nobody is passing judgment, we are assimilating the facts..

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Actually, there was blame mentioned and certainly judgment passed in previous posts. Whether they have been later edited or pulled, i don't know. Reading through them once was enough.
Some very good people are grieving for the loss and tragedy here. I wish them peace and comfort.
I wish it for everyone but especially for them.

I don't think anything was deleted. It all appears to be there on my view. Do you realize that judgment is actually a part of humans survival? It's not a "BAD" thing. What's interesting to me is when people "judge" people or things (guns, drugs, money, sex, wine, etc.) as "BAD" or "GOOD". I choose to use the words "WANTED" or "UNWANTED", which actually places the responsibility for choice on me. Try using these words next time you're tempting to judge something or someone as "bad or good". See if it doesn't create a shift. Words are really important, as you've already indicated by "blaming" and "judging" those who have shared their thoughts, feelings and beliefs, with no intention of harm or blame. The harm has already been done, and those left behind will have to live with it the rest of their lives.

If friends and neighbors truly care, they will step up to provide real consolation, in the form of what they know is needed, besides basic necessities for those survivors. Will there be a community fundraiser started by those who knew and loved this family? Please share this endeavor, so the community can help.

I would tend to believe that those who knew the family for so many years, wouldn't divert the truth with hearsay, but it's been admitted. I want to believe those who knew the family, but knowing and loving are two different things. Sometimes if we love someone, we may cover for them. I've done it myself. Sometimes we may think we know someone by observing activities, and assume things, which get passed on to others. This is "heresay". It's a close cousin to gossip, which I have no inclination toward.

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

Actually, there was blame mentioned and certainly judgment passed in previous posts. Whether they have been later edited or pulled, i don't know....

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I think it's time to move on from the discussion of blame, hearsay, etc...

If anybody has anything else to add about this tragedy or its aftermath you are welcome.

I believe a memorial is being planned. Anybody have the information about that?

If you can help financially, here is the site: https://www.gofundme.com/hxc5g9k4 If you want to attend the memorial it will be Dec. 12, but the venue hasn't been set yet.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I think it's time to move on from the discussion of blame, hearsay, etc...If anybody has anything else to add about this tragedy or its aftermath you are welcome.I believe a memorial is being planned. Anybody have the information about that?

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For some reason I couldn't access the Go Fund Me link. Anyone else?

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

If you can help financially, here is the site: https://www.gofundme.com/hxc5g9k4 If you want to attend the memorial it will be Dec. 12, but the venue hasn't been set yet.

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https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

Does this work?

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

For some reason I couldn't access the Go Fund Me link. Anyone else?

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We need to know because if we don't know, we are ignorant. This is a multi-dimensional problem. It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community. I suggest you contact NAMI to hear the voices of the victims from the mentally ill to their families.

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Posted in reply to the post by beshiva:

Really! ugh....
there is less clarity today than ever..
Assimilating facts? That's a slippery slope!
how presumptuous that any of us need to know a damn thing..

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Thanks for sharing Claire in response to my post.

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

Actually, there was blame mentioned and certainly judgment passed in previous posts. Whether they have been later edited or pulled, i don't know. Reading through them once was enough.
Some very good people are grieving for the loss and tragedy here. I wish them peace and comfort.
I wish it for everyone but especially for them.

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i had hoped the discussion had just begun. sorry to see the negativity. hope we can rise above it. surely being responsible & respectful is easy enough. clear that only a few people who posted are knowledgeable about dramatic brain chemistry imbalances. we could dramatically transform our society, in the best ways, with solid information and some fairly easy changes.

i made the initial post in response to the suspect being on the loose, by linking to the (online) press demo article which covered the arrest of the suspect.

my other two goals, besides letting people know that the identified murderer had been apprehended, compelled me to post. again, critical to remember that in more than 90-95% of murders the victims know the assailant, (& a very high portion of that number is traditional domestic violence, husband murdering wife, & the most common "mass shooting", husband/partner killing spouse, children, in.laws, & any one at the site of the crime. had the honor of working in the domestic violence field for 15 years).

as a mother of an adult child "who is doing well" this week, i know of no greater pain or difficulty than raising a child that has a severe chemical imbalance.

resources are few, if they do exist for the most part inadequately funded/staffed. education can be a nightmare (rather than address the fact that our son was a non reader in lst grade the specialist who was in charge of funding lst denied the claim, & later lassoed his teacher into volunteering before and after school. we purchased zoo phonics for the school, & sent the teacher to the training so our son could learn the alphabet, successful. this was not an unusual approach to making "education work, and something we would have to repeat, or create, again, and again (our son additionally has learning disabilities with sequencing and symbols that make reading & math almost impossible.)

negotiating the "social service system" and "mental health community" take tenacity and dedication that are heroic, and the results may be mixed, or even poor, at any given time.

the horror and ordeal of undergoing a six month medication change can be more painful than any experience i have gone through (going through cancer, comparatively a walk in the park for me. often negotiated with a "higher power" to trade my health for my son's).

simultaneously, one will be isolated because many people don't want to spend time with your child, others think you are bad parents, and with discipline, more structure things would be great (structure is critical, but hard to come by when a child is in a manic state and can't sleep, additional complications inherent as well.).
we have come across a gem of a therapist, unfortunately no longer "with us", and a good psychiatrist, who moved out of state to take a university position so he could have benefits for his family.

each search for a good professional, is similar to finding a job, or moving, a major undertaking.
i had started a post on monday evening and didn't have the time to pen something thoughtful or substantial.
the topic is difficult. i may be lacking now, as a post can only cover so much territory.
no one wants to read a novella, but if one did, there are few things available that are helpful.
(remember being excited about the publication of the bipolar child, though my partner said "there is nothing we don't know, & the children are all doing much better in school.")

NAMI was not helpful for us, but a friend who has has had 2 children with adult onset brain chemistry issues has found it valuable.

i have found support from 3 other people who have had children in similar situations, though unfortunately not until 15 years into this. (the wonderful family of one young man i'll call michael, attempted to kill his adopted father when he was off of his medication. he a tragedy brought about by his horrible birth mom, who, when he was 18, he moved in what appeared to be an attempt to "rescue" this bad person. some articles in the pd give some insights into this families ordeal. for now, will say their son was a bright spot in our lives, and in our son's life. we live with the sadness of what has happened to michael & his devoted adoptive parents. we would not recognize the young man today, in jail, if we didn't know it was him. his desire is to go to prison, so he can have tv.)

every time we have encountered someone good in law enforcement, a teacher who had a handle on his situation, an adult who was kind, our day, week, and with an ongoing relationship, our lives were brighter.
it is easy to judge when one doesn't understand the reality for family members who have a child/adult child, brother, etc. who has a severe chemical imbalance.

people with mild bi.polar disorder maybe able to be treated with diet, supplements, therapies and a good routine. others may be dependent on bottles of medication, along with all of the other needs, which are more difficult as the best medical matches in more severe/complex cases only addresses the highest highs, and the lowest lows. brain paths/ruts and chemistry is different for schizophrenic's who may appear "normal" on medication.

again, mild cases of bi.polar disorder can often be helpful to some people to lead an accomplished life, while severe cases may be crippling at best.

part of the difficulty in discussing brain illnesses (the current director of the nat'l association of mental health, believes that the term "mental health" divides people in a destructive way, by not understanding health issues as inclusive, and separating the brain from the rest of the body, which we only do w. chemical imbalances. new to me, so i'm working to embrace a new vocabulary.)

another "comparatively easy fix" (along with new labeling, and having a populace that had some understanding of theses issues), is sharing these problems, as one begins to see how prevalent they are.
several other things that would change the world for families dealing with a member who suffers from a brain chemistry imbalance is affordable and accessible psychiatry, community centers with good therapists that were affordable and accessible, more & great community centers (haven't found one as an adult, but the Y offered such a resource for me as a teen), and another, helpful fix would be raising IHSS hours to $15-20 an hour. IHSS workers are some of the most important resources for families with health issues (covers home bound patients as well, saves 100's of thousands of $ in hospitalization, additionally critical for an aging population, as well as providing decent jobs available for people with good hearts and common sense who are natural caregivers, and perform some of the most important work in our society.

sorry for posting so much. a tight edit would take another hour i don't have.

thank you for giving this 1/2 the consideration of the new hospital and bike paths.

(the link took me to the "go fund me site", but not to the specific page. adding the town came up with many pages, gave up after 6, so a better link, or suggestions for search, the names didn't do it, would also be helpful.)
:heart::heart::heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:

We need to know because if we don't know, we are ignorant. This is a multi-dimensional problem. It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community. I suggest you contact NAMI to hear the voices of the victims from the mentally ill to their families.

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A friend sent me the link to the Wilson family gofundme site:

https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

hope it works.

Icssoma, thank you for sharing. I have a close friend with an adult son living nearby with a severe brain imbalance/mental illness. Their struggle is excruciating to watch, and I often find myself praying for ways to be of more support or to facilitate their finding the right help/treatment. Such an incredibly challenging situation.:heart::heart::heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

i had hoped the discussion had just begun....

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this is NOT about the people in this tragedy?
Wow!
so, i guess we all get to fiddle around and intellectually masturbate about mental illness...and THAT IS, the Response.
a time to grieve, a time to weep, a time to reflect, a time to talk, a time to be silent
peace, beshiva

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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:

...It is not about the people in this tragedy, but about the RESPONSE of us as a community...

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from the small amount i read about in my neighborhood post (nextdoor) the son's illness weighed heavily on the mother. learning ways to change our world, to make it easier, and more responsive to families who have loved ones that suffer from brain chemistry imbalances, is a gift i believe that honors this family.

this link works! great to have the opportunity to give a little. thank you.

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Posted in reply to the post by rachanna:

https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

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How long should it go on where family, (small units of 3 and 1/2 people) are willing to speak out that they are not enough for the raising of their children and and then an angry demand for the Village it takes to raise their children is heard across the land,

Its no wonder people develop so much hate in their hearts, the vast amount of material abundance we have and the pathetic understanding of each other we have. Its no wonder at all the terrible things that happen. We are tribal creatures and without tribes, we go wrong.

A very dear friend of mine has a son who is schizophrenic. She has been an exemplary mother his whole life and his brother, with a better roll of the genetic dice I guess, is strong and stable.

Medical help was very hard to come by (they live in a different state) and to even get a diagnosis he had to be clean and sober, even from cannabis for 30 days. He was unable to do this as he self-medicated to relieve his continuous stress.

In the meantime, his mother was told by the one doctor she actually received help from that high quality fish oils can drastically help with the brain's chemical imbalances. Sometimes it is even enough to stabilize the patient according to some researches.

We heard this at a time when he was refusing to take the meds he had been prescribed earlier but he took his fish oil because it was a "vitamin" and it said "brain support" or some such thing and he liked that. (I bought them at Community Market.)

I don't share this because I think I am a qualified medical person but this may help someone who is in trouble but can be supported with nutrition or someone who is unable to get the medical help for whatever reason.
This otherwise wonderful young man eventually did get some help, through NAMI, I believe, but it is a long, harrowing road for him and his family and he is not out of the woods. We worry; of course we do.

Also, I had a long discussion with a knowledgeable fellow at Oliver's about fish oils and he pointed out that Jarrow makes a sustainable Krill Oil that is ?% more potent than mere fish oil. Unfortunately he forgot to mention that krill are crustaceans so anyone with a shellfish allergy shouldn't take them but my alarms went off somewhere on the drive home and I remembered for myself. yikes.

At any rate, maybe this can help someone on the edge.

There is 2 other technologies to deal with this....... Mathematics and redox signaling. Mathematics is the language of our DNA, so you can affect a being in way never seen before and the other is redox signaling which in the blood brain barrier can do a lot to neutralize oxydation and toxins.
Be happy to talk to anyone interested.
Oona

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

...In the meantime, his mother was told by the one doctor she actually received help from that high quality fish oils can drastically help with the brain's chemical imbalances...

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certainly vitamins and good nutrition are valuable in the treatment of brain chemistry disorders like schizophrenia, as has been proven before. However, if one truly has a brain chemistry disorder, more targeted treatment is needed than supportive nutrition therapy. Again, NAMI is a good source of information.

These are complex disorders and it is important to not give people false hope or to look for a panacea.

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Posted in reply to the post by Claire:

...but this may help someone who is in trouble but can be supported with nutrition or someone who is unable to get the medical help for whatever reason..

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You are right, we do not want to read a novella. As I labored through your post, I saw little if anything about the experience of the client herself. I say .client because I think that we cannot presume to assist our family member without first having a diagnosis. There are huge inadequacies in "the system" but that does not mean that our county is not making efforts. I admire and respect the efforts and attention Mike Kennedy, our present mental health director is making in addition to the several non-profits such as Community and Family Services. Also the self-help programs of. Interlink and Wellness Center. Much of this is funded by MHSA money and there are multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding.

I would urge all interested parties to view the movie "The Butterfly Effect" which gives us insight into the world of at least one person with mental illness. This one had positive outcomes, but not all do.

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

i had hoped the discussion had just begun. sorry to see the negativity. hope we can rise above it. ...

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Who are you to speak for me as We?

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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:

You are right, we do not want to read a novella. ...

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I think our culture has failed abysmally when it comes to mental health, and health period; it has fallen to corporate interests. The masses by and large do not want to take responsibility for their health, preferring to abdicate their personal authority to the doctors, who are listening to drug reps instead of reading their own science, but I digress...

There are those who do want to take charge of their and their family's health! The Sonoma County Library has several copies of a book entitled "Nutrient Power" by William Walsh, PhD who studied over 30,000 depressed, or biopolar, or schizophrenic etc. etc. people and dialed in what can be done with simple supplementation to ameliorate many of these situations. We need to help ourselves in this age of change, and read the science because it seems like many "experts" are not doing so.

Pamela Lewis (RN in integrative medicine)

sorry my post was so unclear. my child has had what we, and professionals we trust believe is bipolar disorder from a very young age. signs of OCD, were present as early as 2, along w. night terrors, that never ended, until he was medicated (which allowed him to sleep through the night in addition to other benefits. in the 90's bi.polar disorder wasn't recognized by the AMA as occurring in children. it was believed by many to not begin until between 15-25, the more common time for onset of full symptoms. (this is why i mentioned the bipolar child, as it was a "break through book" discussing many individuals who were diagnosed with this brain chemistry imbalance as children.) Somewhere in the late 90's the disorder was acknowledged as occurring in children.

diagnosis for brain chemistry disorders is often backwards, good responses to medication often are used as a tool for diagnosis.

my post was more about our experience as a parent. having a child with such an illness dominates much of one's life. each step of the way we have sought out solid professionals, and advocated for good help/programs.

more than 20 years into this, we are working with him and a team, to increase his independence and take more responsibility, which is challenging for someone who wants to "be on their own", but fearful, as well as discouraged by the awareness that he will always need support/help in managing his life.

he doesn't read or write (learning disorders) and is resistant to programs that could assist him (read & write gold, dragon, etc.), he sees such programs as putting him outside the norm, and wants more than anything to appear/be "normal".

I was hoping to give people some idea of the difficulties of negotiating the health care system: what things were helpful to our family, and in my responses, what others can do help families like ours feel supported/less isolated (what we wanted for many years).

our son, and many of his friends function with varying degrees of success.

a child who suffers from a severe chemical imbalance, has a brain that is in chaos, and the person often seeks chaos to mirror their world. during those years little social growth was possible, so he missed out on many key parts of early years, and has been "catching up" ever since. I doubt my son would feel comfortable talking about these issues in a public setting.

I'm hoping there will be a time when he realizes how many people he can help when he can be open about what it has been like growing up on the edge of society. would be great for him to experience the freedom that he might know when he is not feeling compelled to embrace macho stereotypes as a persona to feel accepted.

I have tried to present information that might be helpful to understanding some of what parents go through-- the difficulties in this painful journey-- and to help shed light for people wanting to understand these health issues, while letting people know ways they can support families like ours, and to convey to others the mammoth lifetime job this is for family/parents who are trying to help their children/adult children.
:Yinyangv:

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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:

You are right, we do not want to read a novella. As I labored through your post, I saw little if anything about the experience of the client herself. ...insight into the world of at least one person with mental illness. This one had positive outcomes, but not all do.

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Thad,

I believe that a "village" may be in the best interests of our children, and some get it in co-housing, intentional communities, shared housing, even communes, etc, but "an angry demand" for others to help us care for our children just isn't going to make that happen. We must take responsibility for our choices to live apart from our original extended family, and there may be good reasons for it.

Some of these reasons may be economics, mental health issues, and/or our incompatibility. Just because we have a blood family doesn't mean they might be capable or desirable of influencing our children. I speak from experience, coming from an ancestry of mental illness on BOTH sides. I kept my father and brother away as much as possible.

The bipolar man I've supported for over 25 years, is very clear that he doesn't want to bring more children into this world with the potential to perpetuate his disorder. He also has family history of it, all forms of abuse and alcoholism, on BOTH sides. It would have taken a miracle for him to escape it.

Also, ancient and modern villages have their problems too; they have different ways of dealing with it. I think there was something on Wacco, awhile back with a tribal image.

I agree that the excessive attachment to material creates an avenue that leads away from the heart. I feel great sadness when I see mothers and or fathers (mostly mothers) with babies/children in their care, while they only have eyes for the "communication device". I can't even imagine nursing a baby and not gazing at them, speaking softly, humming or singing to them. Or sitting next to a child with my attention only on my "device" as they watch and learn what's more important than they are.

I fear that as difficult as things appear now, the negative effect of this on the young ones, will reverberate for a very long time to come. Whenever I see a child, I look into their eyes, and acknowledge them. I hope others do this too. Only yesterday I had the experience of seeing a little girl about 6, with a younger brother about 2, holding his hand to keep him away from moving cars. When I looked at her, and waved, she brightened, and returned the sweetest smile. Our acknowledgment of each other is the basis for intimacy. Our potential "village" is closer than we realize, but we must begin with strangers. They may be friends and allies we haven't met.

I live in a senior mobile home park that doesn't provide an personal welcome to new comers. I've asked several times if I could be the "greeter", but my request isn't even acknowledged. So, if I know about a new owner, I make it a point to knock on their door, and say "welcome to our neighborhood!"

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

How long should it go on where family, (small units of 3 and 1/2 people) are willing to speak out that they are not enough for the raising of their children and and then an angry demand for the Village it takes to raise their children is heard across the land,

Its no wonder people develop so much hate in their hearts, the vast amount of material abundance we have and the pathetic understanding of each other we have. Its no wonder at all the terrible things that happen. We are tribal creatures and without tribes, we go wrong.

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Susan,

Thank you so much for your personal sharing. I'm curious if you have a family history of alcoholism, mental illness, MPD and/or dis-associative disorder that may have been passed on. The reason I ask about DD is because of night terrors. Was there any guess as to what these may have been related to, other than a chemical imbalance? Voices? I'm wondering if my brother may have had those also, as an infant. He wasn't diagnosed until he was in his early 20's, after several foster homes, institutions and jail. He refused the medications which made him feel like a "zombie" or "vegetable". He had a brilliant mind, and a photographic memory, able to repeat book pages word for word.

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

sorry my post was so unclear. my child has had what we, and professionals we trust believe is bipolar disorder from a very young age. signs of OCD, were present as early as 2, along w. night terrors, that never ended, until he was medicated (which allowed him to sleep through the night in addition to other benefits. in the 90's bi.polar disorder wasn't recognized by the AMA as occurring in children. it was believed by many to not begin until between 15-25, the more common time for onset of full symptoms. (this is why i mentioned the bipolar child, as it was a "break through book" discussing many individuals who were diagnosed with this brain chemistry imbalance as children.)
somewhere in the late 90's the disorder was acknowledged as occurring in children.
diagnosis for brain chemistry disorders is often backwards, good responses to medication often are used as a tool for diagnosis.
my post was more about our experience as a parent. having a child with such an illness dominates much of one's life. each step of the way we have sought out solid professionals, and advocated for good help/programs.
more than 20 years into this, we are working with him and a team, to increase his independence and take more responsibility, which is challenging for someone who wants to "be on their own", but fearful, as well as discouraged by the awareness that he will always need support/help in managing his life.
he doesn't read or write (learning disorders) and is resistant to programs that could assist him (read & write gold, dragon, etc.), he sees such programs as putting him outside the norm, and wants more than anything to appear/be "normal".
was hoping to give people some idea of the difficulties of negotiating the health care system: what things were helpful to our family, and in my responses, what others can do help families like ours feel supported/less isolated (what we wanted for many years).
our son, and many of his friends function with varying degrees of success.
a child who suffers from a severe chemical imbalance, has a brain that is in chaos, and the person often seeks chaos to mirror their world. during those years little social growth was possible, so he missed out on many key parts of early years, and has been "catching up" ever since.
doubt my son would feel comfortable talking about these issues in a public setting.
hoping there will be a time when he realizes how many people he can help when he can be open about what it has been like growing up on the edge of society. would be great for him to experience the freedom that he might know when he is not feeling compelled to embrace macho stereotypes as a persona to feel accepted.
have tried to present information that might be helpful to understanding some of what parents go through-- the difficulties in this painful journey-- and to help shed light for people wanting to understand these health issues, while letting people know ways they can support families like ours, and to convey to others the mammoth lifetime job this is for family/parents who are trying to help their children/adult children.
:Yinyangv:

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I find it sad that there are "multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding" (from the MHSA) - when they should all be well funded social services. The old "joke" about the Pentagon having bake sales to fund their wars comes to mind.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:

...Much of this is funded by MHSA money and there are multiple social workers and agencies jockeying for position for said funding...

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Csell you have misinformation throughout your post. My name is Zachary Wilson youngest son of Adrianne Chapin and David Wilson. I have never met you in the context of my family. I myself have never had any mental health issues, my siblings and I weren't permitted to use drugs and alcohol and to my knowledge none of us had sex before the age of 10. Get your facts right before putting your foot in your mouth. Quote from the all knowing Thumper "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all".

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Posted in reply to the post by csell:

To set the record straight, I will share some insights with you. They moved to Forestville from Hayward 15+ years ago to have good schools available to their children. All of the kids have had "mental health" issues, despite the fact that they evolved from a tremendously loving, supportive family and extended family. I'm only going to mention this because of your desire to have good options for your own children: these three were raised in the most permissive of all environments, having opportunity to experiment with alcohol, drugs and sex before they were even 10. [IMHO, children need guidance and boundaries and rules.] I personally know a great deal about mental health issues and we could debate the nature/nurture issue to the end of time. Just know this--Nathan was not a nonfunctional adult "living at home." He was a smart, successful plumber and carpenter with amazing skills and talents who chose a lot of bad paths to follow. One of the greatest tragedies is that at age 34, he has now chosen to throw away the rest of his life.

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Thank you so much for helping support my family during this tragedy. It is greatly appreciated.

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Posted in reply to the post by rachanna:

A friend sent me the link to the Wilson family gofundme site:
https://www.gofundme.com/davidandadrianne

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Zachary, thanks so much for speaking up. This must have been unimaginably awful for you. If you have any inclination to shed light on what happened, I know lots of us would really welcome it--many of us are trying to make sense of frightening offspring and our community in general. You may be under instructions not to say much at all, though--I imagine the defense team is trying to keep a tight lid on it.

I must say I am mystified by csell's wildly different portrayal.

And to those who might think this is an inappropriate conversation for the community--imho it is so certainly not. We are linked. Remember the meme about the butterfly in one place affecting a country across the globe? Well this is one hell of a big butterfly, and we can't NOT be affected. As humans we look for meaning, so some of us are really scrambling to find some credible cause and effect here.

Again, my gratitude to you. And my hopes that you're being supported wisely and warmly.

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by Zwilson:

Csell you have misinformation throughout your post. My name is Zachary Wilson youngest son of Adrianne Chapin and David Wilson....

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hi Zachary, i'm sorry you even Had to respond to this thread. i'm sorry you had to read some of the self-serving overreach of a few. a whole lot of gossip, very little substance. Why it couldn't have been given a rest!

I join you in supporting Zachary and expressing appreciation for his speaking out at a time of devastating loss for him, and if he feels comfortable sharing insights re what happened then we might learn from his experience..
Regarding being mystified about CSell's very different portrayal, it could be one person's portrayal as grudge or judgment---or it could be objective. We don't know! There are many truths in memory and perspective.
What can we do in the meantime? We can all try to learn without creating a mental movie.
We can use our learning from this tragedy to advance knowledge and support for mental illness and families.
And we can sit on our questions. We all want answers, but they will be a long time coming.
Thanks to all who have expressed their caring....like you, I am a member of this community and we are all hurting and wondering.

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

Zachary, thanks so much for speaking up...

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