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Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Clint, your post sounds a lot like your old, original suspicions that the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre may have been either:
1. Perpetrated by the government to create a pretext for disarming American citizens (and then presumably massacring the public who can no longer defend themselves when a dictatorship is imposed).
2. The whole Sandy Hook massacre was staged with actors and no one really was killed.
So which one is it this time, Clint? I would really like to know. And please make a sincere effort to back it up with credible sources. It is always about some big bad conspiracy coming from either the evil government or evil corporations. EVERY single time it is always the same story for EVERY important event. You never offer another type of explanation other than 9/11 truthers or COINTELPRO or CIA Black Ops overseas or Wall Street. It is always the same, tired drum roll.
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Posted in reply to the post by CSummer:
Yes, the video is an obvious attempt to disparage and discredit those who choose not to have their
children vaccinated...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
You seem to have a great need to believe in the official line, Edward, and to disparage those who don't. If it makes you feel better to believe, I suppose you'll continue to do so. I'm more interested in the truth than in being - once again - a dupe of authority figures who abuse their positions of trust and mislead the public (and a long list could be made of such instances, beginning with all the bogus justifications for routine infant circumcision, then the dangers of marijuana, and the pretexts for most wars). I also am fairly certain that I never expressed any such suspicions regarding the Sandy Hook School massacre. If you think I did, you must have misread what I wrote.
There is, you know, an alternative to believing the "party line" and taking sides with those who offer differing explanations (also known as "conspiracy theories," many of which have proven to be true). It may be called "questioning authority," and I've found "authority" all too often to be highly questionable (if not outright lying).
Have you watched the movie "Bought?" You may want to do so before continuing to support the view that vaccines are good for infants and children. For me, keeping one's head in a box of beliefs and making derogatory comments about those we don't agree with doesn't change reality or enable anyone to discover a larger truth.
CSummer
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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
Clint, your post sounds a lot like your old, original suspicions that the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre may have been either:....
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
I have your emails. Only a lunatic is capable of even remotely implying that the government, at any level, carried out that atrocity at Sandy Hook. That is clearly what you implied. Only a very immature, irresponsible person makes such an astonishing and extremist assertion as that. Or also imply very strongly, as you did, that they may have been actors and that no one was shot or killed.
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Posted in reply to the post by CSummer:
You seem to have a great need to believe in the official line, Edward,...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
I've re-read my posts under the thread about the Sandy Hook School massacre, Edward. I see nothing in them that implies any of what you apparently believe they do. What I am saying is that when the media or officials use the tactic of disparaging those who disagree with or question the official account, I become very suspicious of their motivations. This doesn't in any way mean I agree with those who question the official accounts or who have alternative theories about what happened. What it means is that a big red flag goes up for me when someone in a position of power uses that power to discredit those who hold differing views. It seems to me like an obvious attempt to suppress dissent - and quite possibly (as was seen in the case of 9/11) to hide the truth. And having seen the enormous harm and human suffering that has resulted from such deliberate efforts to "manufacture consent," mislead the public or conceal the truth, I have zero tolerance for these abuses of power.
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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
I have your emails...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Below is an email you sent me in response to the questions I asked you.
---------------------------------------------------
On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:39 PM, Clint Summer wrote:
Hi Edward,
I'll offer you my answers to these questions:
Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook were not killed?
I tend not to hold beliefs about anything. I don't know what really happened. I might wish that the children weren't killed, but it seems somewhat unlikely that the whole story was made up.
Do you feel that the parents were really just actors?
I have no feelings or beliefs about the parents, other than sympathy and sadness if they truly lost their children.
Do you believe that the US government somehow orchestrated this massacre?
Once again, I don't hold beliefs about such things, as I would find it useless to do so. There are the facts about what actually happened which I don't really know, and there's the story that the media broadcast, which I don't trust due to past abuses (and for other reasons). I may at some point look into alternative news sources regarding this. None of this, though, was the point of what I posted, and I'll be doing another post in response to what Richard wrote that will hopefully clarify what I mean. It's about the use if verbiage that seems obviously crafted to cast those who take issue with the official story as gun-crazy nuts. Maybe some of them are, I don't know.
And actually, I don't really know what your position on gun control is, Edward. It may be that we're not so far apart. I would certainly be in favor of keeping guns out of the hands of those who are likely to use them for purposes other than self-defense. That could include those with criminal records, mentally ill people with violent tendencies and perhaps even people who are on SSRI antidepressants.
Clint
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Posted in reply to the post by CSummer:
I've re-read my posts under the thread about the Sandy Hook School massacre, Edward...
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You are not alone, Clint. There are many others who are as delusional as you are. Just watch the video below of this crazy lady who thinks that the Sandy Hook shooting never happened.
Truther explains to state panel how Internet ‘proves’ Newtown shooting was a hoax
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ty5RXSQ49Y#t=257
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Posted in reply to the post by CSummer:
Yes, thank you for posting this, Edward. The gist of it is 3 questions in which you ask: Do you believe _______, and to all 3 I answer - in so many words - no. I'm beginning to get an inkling of what the problem is here. It seems you think that if I don't believe A, then I must believe B. This is not the case, however...
CSummer
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
This is the Wikipedia definition of "delusion," Edward: A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary. I'm not aware of any belief I strongly hold, let alone one for which there is superior evidence to the contrary. Please enlighten me.
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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
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Clint, please take a closer look at what you said:
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Do you believe that the children at Sandy Hook were not killed?
...I might wish that the children weren't killed, but it seems somewhat unlikely that the whole story was made up.
So, you "might" wish that the children were not killed, if indeed they were killed. You are obviously open to the possibility of a hoax having been perpetrated and that no children were even killed in the first place???
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"it seems somewhat unlikely that the whole story was made up"
Clint, for you or ANYONE for ANY reason to cast doubt on the fact that the massacre ever happened in the first place is sheer lunacy. Period. Please accept responsibility for your words.
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Do you feel that the parents were really just actors?
"...if they truly lost their children."
The word "if" clearly implies that you think it is possible (even if remotely) that NO children were killed and that this part of the story was made up. COME ON, Clint!
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Do you believe that the US government somehow orchestrated this massacre?
You can reread your response to this question; it is on this thread. To this last question you gave a sufficiently ambiguous answer to reinforce the possibility, even if remotely, that the government may have actually orchestrated a massacre against its own people in order to create a pretext to take people's guns away.
In your vague responses to my 3 questions you clearly implied 2 things:
1. The parents may have been actors and that the massacre may have never happened.
2. The US government may have mass murdered all of those school children at Sandy Hook.
For you to even remotely imply these horrible ideas is pathetic. I really don't know which one of those 2 ideas of yours is worse. But you exhibit extraordinarily poor judgment.
Tragically, there are plenty of people out there, and even on this list, who actually agree with you. How sad.
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Re:Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
I've been "lurking" this thread for a while, and I finally feel I need to jump in and say something.
I believe there have been many "false flag" operations throughout history. Sometimes the perps are private parties, e.g., corporations, bankers groups, and sometimes they are governments, "SCADs", that is "State Crimes Against Democracy". Among the latter, there are the prominent ones, like the killings of JFK, RFK, and King, and the 9/11 attacks. And then there are the ones that are not so well remembered and/or where the evidence is less definite, such as the London tube bombings, the Isreali bombing of the U.S. Liberty in the Six Day War (well documented, but who knows about it?), the bombings of Israeli installations in Argentina, the attack on the Maine, and the Tonkin Gulf affair. Some are for high stakes international politics, such as the present Ukraine affair, where the U.S. is using a false flag "attack on Ukraine by Russia" and the shooting down of the Thai airplane over rebel territory as means to pressure Russia to fall in line with Western imperialist goals, but some are more restricted and local in scope. And many people believe the Sandy Hook shootings were a government "false flag" means to achieving stricter gun control laws, just as many people believe the Boston Marathon bombing was a "false flag" attempt by the government to create more fear and readiness by the public to accept martial law.
I have read and watched discussions about Sandy Hook, but I still don't feel qualified to have a firm opinion about it. It does seem a bit fantastic that an event with dozens of deaths, the dead perpetrator, the grieving parents, and all of it so supported by the media and government could be a hoax, but, on the other hand, the media and government are so corrupt that I feel the burden of proof should always be on them and that someone contradicting them should be "judged innocent until proven guilty." A few of the statements the false flag advocates make are that the school had actually been closed since 2008, that the on scene handling was very suspect in that there were no attempts at triage, no EMTs, etc., that visual examination of the school building in this wealthy neighborhood looked like a place that hadn't been occupied since 2008, with peeling paint and lack of current handicap accommodations, etc. They say that it's impossible to read the death certificates for the alledged victims. These are just some things I remember off the top of my head. One person, whose rationality and insight I generally respect, says that there is a second photograph taken from farther away that shows that the prize winning photograph of the children being led out of the school failed to show the parents in the foreground looking on as at a drill, also showing a different order of the children, thus implying a drill with several "takes". I don't know what to make of all this. I'm not convinced because I have no easy way of knowing the truth of the above points, but it jars me enough to have some reservations about the accepted story.
But the point I'd like to make is that it seems unreasonable for you, Edward, to be so certain of your point of view that you can say, "For you to even remotely imply these horrible ideas is pathetic", and use words like "lunacy". I mean, we know the government is easily morally capable of pulling off a such a hoax -- the question is whether they did do that or not. Where does "horrible ideas" come into it? And, since you started the thread to present your point of view in favor of forced vaccinations, it seems passing strange for you to bring up an ad hominem attack referencing Sandy Hook and then to keep on beating it that horse to death, using the tone you did. If you have evidence to refute objections to your point of view regarding forced vaccinations, it would seem a more reasonable course to argue your convictions instead.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Phredo, I reassert the fact that anyone who says:
1. The government may have murdered 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Or:
2. The government may have used actors to pretend to be grieving parents.
is indeed very delusional, irresponsible, reckless, naive, ignorant, immature, and has extremely poor judgment. And that's putting it lightly:
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories:
The official account of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting[1] has been disputed by a number of conspiracy theories. It is widely accepted that on December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza fatally shot his mother, then 20 students and 6 staff members at the elementary school before committing suicide.[2] Proponents of these conspiracy theories question the circumstances of the shooting with Adam Lanza as the sole perpetrator and are using early media reports that included inconsistencies about the identity of the shooter, wrong photos, incorrect location of victims,[3] weapons used[4] and other alleged misinformation[5][6] as evidence for their claims. Others have suggested the shooting was orchestrated by government officials for political reasons,[7] similar to some 9/11 conspiracy theories, claiming that the shooting was deliberately set up to push stricter gun control laws.
Continues here
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by phredo:
I've been "lurking" this thread for a while, and I finally feel I need to jump in and say something...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
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...is indeed very delusional, irresponsible, reckless, naive, ignorant, immature, and has extremely poor judgment. And that's putting it lightly.
I love it! Keep it up!
I've said pretty much as much as I wish to about Sandy Hook, at least for the time being. It's not something I'm very interested in pursuing, especially since, as I mentioned earlier, I don't have much way of checking the claims of the deniers without doing a lot of work. I merely think that some of their ideas are interesting and seem somewhat plausible and that I don't trust the government or the media to give me a true picture, given their track records of corruption and deceit. My main points are that you unnecessarily dragged the subject into your own thread and use a lot of rather pejorative language when people respond with their doubts about what happened. And, by the way, I feel the same way about the Boston bombing, where it actually seems likely to me that the brothers didn't do it. Interested parties might check out this site, which seems credible to me.
I notice your Wikipedia article mentions "9/11 conspiracy" in passing. I do know a fair amount about that, and if you'd like to start a thread about it, I'll be glad to discuss it.
I don't know much about the vaccine question either, but, as it happens, I've been listening to "The Gary Null Show" quite a bit for several months (5 days a week one hour shows, look for the podcasts of it), and lately he's been talking quite a bit about vaccines from a negative point of view, since it's one of his interests (he's made a film or two about it, written numerous papers, held and attended conferences, and so forth) and measles has been so much in the news, so I've been infused with a little knowledge. By the way, I think it's a show well worth listening to if one has the time. The first half his show is him talking about health news (for starts, he's a vegan who likes to juice), and the second half is usually an interview about politics that's usually interesting, to me, at least, since I agree with his views almost 100%. I really recommend his show. His "Progressive Radio Network", which also carries other programs, gets about 25 million hits a week, and, in my opinion, has a great possibility for mass education on important issues.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Posted in reply to the post by phredo:
I love it! Keep it up!
Conspiracy theorists claim Sandy Hook tragedy is elaborate government hoax
Like every other major tragedy in U.S. history, a community of conspiracy theorists is springing up around the events of the Sandy Hook Elementary shootings.
These "truthers" are positing that the entire event, in which 20 children and 6 adult school staff members were killed by gunman Adam Lanza, was staged to push a government agenda. In this case, that agenda is making the U.S. public afraid so that they'll be more dependent on government, as well as forcing a referendum on gun control. Some have even tied it to the LIBOR banking scandal.
...
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6 Attachment(s)
Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
Copied articles with details you couldn't even converse intelligently about don't show any proof of real understanding of the whole complex picture or what you consider definitive proof against the very ill-fitting puzzle pieces being questioned. What do you know about the EMT's and coroner acting totally against protocol, the victims parents real estate deals immediately after, the lack of lawsuits, the phony barber, the bizarre DNA findings, the death certificates issues, the other 50 things....
People trying to expose Northwoods and Tonkin were ridiculed as long as possible too.
There are big questions and ill-fitting puzzle pieces galore regarding Sandy Hook.
- Gee, how could the main charity sites for victims have been google time-stamped the day before?
- Where was this 'Mass Casualties Drill Involving Children' FEMA exercise scheduled in the same city on the same day?
March 3, 2015
Maureen Crowley testifying about the Sandy Hook lies
at the Newtown CT Public Safety Hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ty5RXSQ49Y&t=27
".... I attended St. Francis of Assisi Junior High where Sister Miriam Patrise taught me “When you’re not sure of the right thing to do, the right thing is usually the hard thing to do.....It’s hard for me to speak here today, to speak — an aging baby boomer — would have been easier to sit home. But the truth never comes easily. It comes with dues for those who choose to speak it. The truth is often not palatable or pristine, but it is simple. Simple, but far from easy....."
....I was, as some of you here are now, I believed every word out of [CNN anchor] Anderson Cooper’s mouth that day....But this non-event has turned the culture of the state of Connecticut and the culture of the United States of America upside down. ... I reject the official narrative of Sandy Hook. I reject the lies......
OFFICIAL STATE ATTORNEY SANDY HOOK REPORT including 27 DNA reports
https://cspsandyhookreport.ct.gov
1. The DNA of substitute teacher Lauren Rousseau was found on 13 loaded cartridges inside the rifle plus the pistol grip, shoulder stock, feed area, glock magazine, 9mm magazine, pmag magazine inside the trunk the car supposedly belonging to Adam Lanza.
2. The DNA of school principal Dawn Hochsprung was the only DNA found on one of the rifle cartridges.
3. Adam Lanza's DNA was ELIMINATED from the two holding areas on a rifle necessary for shooting it, the 'stock area' and the 'forearm', and all the magazines and cartridges of one the rifles considered to have been used in the shootings.
My point is that there are unanswered valid questions galore, and I share Maureen's concern that it's totally wrong and dangerous to society to not demand the answers.
Wouldn't someone look like a total fool to contemptuously scream a slammed door hardcore opinion about a complex subject while showing a total lack of awareness of the sum of details and have no substantive answers whatsoever for the 50+ very thought provoking ill-fitting puzzle pieces in the official story (or not even know the questions)?
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Alex, if you had paid careful attention to this thread you would have seen that I already posted the video (post #10) of that crazy woman you included in your convoluted post as evidence of nut cases who like to promote conspiracy theories, not just about Sandy Hook but also about anything that suits the fancy of nut jobs.
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Posted in reply to the post by Alex:
March 3, 2015
Maureen Crowley testifying about the Sandy Hook lies
at the Newtown CT Public Safety Hearing: ....
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Re:Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Here's a new documentary with 3 hours of "nut jobs" questioning the facts of Sandy Hook ... I suggest that you watch it Edward ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD0z275nQnM
and at this point 80% of our population questions the facts of 9/11 ... I guess that we've become a nation of "nut jobs" ...
https://www.prisonplanet.com/article...141006poll.htm
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Arthunter, et al, this is the kind of thing that people like you do. Thank you for your suggestion that I listen to 3 hours of conspiracy theorists. I now suggest that you read the article, below. Please try to give an honest response to it, if you can. Does this man, Gene Rosen, deserve to be treated in this way??? Can you answer that question? Thank you.
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Gene Rosen sheltered six kids during the Sandy Hook massacre. Now he's become a target of conspiracy theorists
This man helped save six children, is now getting harassed for it
“I don’t know what to do,” sighed Gene Rosen. “I’m getting hang-up calls, I’m getting some calls, I’m getting emails with, not direct threats, but accusations that I’m lying, that I’m a crisis actor, ‘how much am I being paid?’” Someone posted a photo of his house online. There have been phony Google+ and YouTube accounts created in his name, messages on white supremacist message boards ridiculing the “emotional Jewish guy,” and dozens of blog posts and videos “exposing” him as a fraud. One email purporting to be a business inquiry taunted: “How are all those little students doing? You know, the ones that showed up at your house after the ‘shooting’. What is the going rate for getting involved in a gov’t sponsored hoax anyway?”
“The quantity of the material is overwhelming,” he said. So much so that a friend shields him from most of it by doing daily sweeps of the Web so Rosen doesn’t have to. His wife is worried for their safety. He’s logged every email and every call, and consulted with a retired state police officer, who took the complaint seriously but said police probably can’t do anything at the moment; he plans to do the same with the FBI.
What did Rosen do to deserve this? One month ago, he found six little children and a bus driver at the end of the driveway of his home in Newtown, Conn. “We can’t go back to school,” one little boy told Rosen. “Our teacher is dead.” He brought them inside and gave them food and juice and toys. He called their parents. He sat with them and listened to their shocked accounts of what had happened just down the street inside Sandy Hook Elementary, close enough that Rosen heard the gunshots...
The article continues. Link above.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Edward,
I would NEVER harass anyone and I resent the implications ... this is a matter for the courts and it seems that there are several court cases pending ...
https://americanfreepress.net/?p=22330
https://tinyurl.com/qj7vdxm
regarding Gene Rosen, I suggest that you go to the 47:40 point of the documentary that I posted ...
with these kinds of questions regarding this case, one would think that there would be an investigation ...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
The Wire, News from the Atlantic, 12.18.2012
Newtown Conspiracy Theories, Debunked
As with every tragedy that takes place in America these days, it didn't take long for "truthers," racists, and other fringe people to concoct conspiracy theories about the Sandy Hook massacre — myths that would be laughable if they weren't so offensive.
The most prominent concoction getting attention right now is the claim made by Press TV, the official state media outlet of Iran, that the massacre was actually the work of an Israeli death squad sent to America to punish President Obama for his lack of loyalty. Even worse, the implication is that the president would rather "take the punishment" and cover up this supposed deadly raid than defy his Jewish supporters or embarrass the state Israel. This story obviously plays on the worst fears of those who believe in secret Jewish cabals that run the world, but it's a pretty pathetic attempt at slander, even for Iran.
But that country's anti-Semitic leaders are not the only ones spreading unfounded stories about "what really happened" in Newtown. TalkingPointsMemo looks at the rumor that improbably connects the shooting to the LIBOR interest rate scandal. That started with the (true) report that the shooter's father works in finance, but morphed into the (false) rumor that he was scheduled to deliver some no doubt shocking testimony about the LIBOR debacle before the Senate banking committee. (There are no Senate hearings scheduled and the father was not being called to testify about anything.) You might remember that this exact same rumor was spread about the father of the shooter after the Aurora theater murders this summer — another incident that has gotten plenty of play among the conspiracy minded.
Yesterday, The Atlantic Wire also received a email spelling out several theories and mysteries about the case, many of them contradictory and each one more ludicrous than the next. Most revolve around the idea that the shooting was a "false flag" operation, designed to, among other things, dupe Americans into accepting a United Nations weapons treaty that will rob them of their gun rights. Who would want such a thing to pass? Depending on who you believe, it's the global banking industry, the Freemasons, and Barack Obama (who is also the anti-christ) acting on behalf of "his Illuminati Jewish handlers like Mayor Bloomberg of NY and Dianne Feinstein." Again, anti-Semitism finds a way in...
To read the full article click on the link above.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
Edward,
I would NEVER harass anyone and I resent the implications ... this is a matter for the courts and it seems that there are several court cases pending ...
https://americanfreepress.net/?p=22330
https://tinyurl.com/qj7vdxm
regarding Gene Rosen, I suggest that you go to the 47:40 point of the documentary that I posted ...
with these kinds of questions regarding this case, one would think that there would be an investigation ...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
.
The official account of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting[1] has been disputed by a number of conspiracy theories. It is widely accepted that on December 14, 2012, Adam Lanza fatally shot his mother, then 20 students and 6 staff members at the elementary school before committing suicide.[2] Proponents of these conspiracy theories question the circumstances of the shooting with Adam Lanza as the sole perpetrator and are using early media reports that included inconsistencies about the identity of the shooter, wrong photos, incorrect location of victims,[3] weapons used[4] and other alleged misinformation[5][6] as evidence for their claims. Others have suggested the shooting was orchestrated by government officials for political reasons,[7] similar to some 9/11 conspiracy theories, claiming that the shooting was deliberately set up to push stricter gun control laws.
Continues here
Hmm....an alleged massive scale false flag operation that logically had to involve hundreds of people: fake parents, fake teachers, fake kids, fake school officials, fake neighbors in the community, fake local emergency responders, fake media reporters, fake city officials, etc. etc. etc. which logistically must have taken many, many years to set up, and all in order to push tighter gun control laws. Given that gun control laws across the country have mostly loosened not tightened since Sandy Hook I guess it didn't work out so well.
Scott
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7 Attachment(s)
Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
scott,
that sounds so familiar: "an alleged massive scale false flag operation that logically had to involve hundreds of people…"
oh yes, that exactly what you said when i - and others - said that 9/11 was NOT what the mainstream media / government story was. are you sticking to that being the real thing as well?
conspiracy-is-another-way-of-not-having-to-say-you're-sorry-for-running-the-world, jude
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
Hmm....an alleged massive scale false flag operation that logically had to involve hundreds of people: fake parents, fake teachers, fake kids, fake school officials, fake neighbors in the community, fake local emergency responders, fake media reporters, fake city officials, etc. etc. etc. which logistically must have taken many, many years to set up, and all in order to push tighter gun control laws. Given that gun control laws across the country have mostly loosened not tightened since Sandy Hook I guess it didn't work out so well.
Scott
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
That's an interesting post. I first read the PressTV story you linked to, and then I tried to find out more about Mike Harris, the guy they got the information from. There's not much about him on the web, except that he ran for governor of Arizona in 2006 and received 6% of the vote. The article is dated Dec. 18,2012, so he was pretty fast on his feet to come up with all that, just four days after the event. And the article you printed that referenced PressTV was also on that date, so when it says "getting attention right now", "right now" means 12/18/2012.
PressTV does some good reporting and opining, but I wouldn't say this story represents one of their finer moments, mainly because there seems to be no logical link between the noted discrepancies in the "official version" and Israel, as Mike Harris and PressTV would like us to believe. They make no case at all, in fact, but make a leap from "it's just the kind of thing they'd do" to "they did it". We're used to our media doing that about all kinds of events, but it's rather glaring sometimes, especially when it's not about something one has been previously conditioned to accept.
I think some of the points of discrepancy the story makes have since been explained, but, not to worry, many new ones have arisen since then! As a side note, I think your post shows some use of "guilt by association", first by the "Newtown Conspiracy Theories, Debunked" article in lumping together "truthers, racists, and other fringe people" and second by you yourself suggesting that the PressTV article represents a typical critique of Sandy Hook. "Guilt by association" is something we use all the time as a shortcut for forming an opinion of something. For example, if I'm trying to decide on a ballot proposition I don't know much about, and I see that the supporters of it are big businesses and Republicans while those opposed are conservationists, I'll likely vote against it without learning more if I don't have time or inclination. And a lot of times that works well and saves a lot of time and effort. But if I'm really trying to understand and learn or, on the other hand, actually trying to make convincing argument, it's not such a good way to go about it, in my opinion. (Maybe there's a better way to describe the tactic than "guilt by association", but that's what comes to mind right now.) Of course, the use of the expression "conspiracy theory" is a perfect example of this -- the easy lumping of an idea one wants to disparage into a category which has a negative connotation by just saying it without any attempt to prove it.
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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Edward, … have you done much looking at history? … you know, who did what to whom? …and when you looked at history what did you see? … did you see a political world where everyone was telling the truth? … did you see justice for all? … or did you see lying and cover-ups, wars and discrimination?
When you look at our current state of affairs, what do you see? … do you see a world where everyone is encouraged to express their opinions? … do you see a world where honest journalism and whistle blowing are appreciated? … do you see our Constitution honored and upheld?
Leaving worn out, derogatory phrases such as “conspiracy theorist” and “anti-semitic” out of the discussion for a moment, do you really think that the twin towers were “dustified” due to jet fuel?...in spite of the fact that most scientists have pointed out that the burning temperature of jet fuel is not great enough to melt steel?….Because of these facts, 80% of the country believes that we were lied to... why would anyone lie to us ? … who benefited from 9/11?
And when you look at who owns the media ( including a lot of mainstream links which you provide ), who do you see? …. who occupies key positions of power in our government alphabet agencies like Homeland Security?, …. and who owns Hollywood, … have you ever looked into it?
It is the “facts” of Sandy Hook which make it confusing … the fact that video tapes of the event do not correlate with sworn testimony … the fact that many participants happened to have a background in acting … Gawd, there's even a new lawsuit from a school superintendent saying that the school was closed at the time …
Honestly, I don't know what to believe, but I do know, that like 9/11, it should be investigated …
But more than anything else this whole thing points to a sad reality, and that is that the American people are losing all faith in their government and media to tell the truth … and that's too bad because this used to be a reasonable place to live and it's changing … perhaps there really is a New World Order push going on and the perpetrators ( who are not Jewish, by the way ) want us to overthrow our own government so that they can walk right in …
oops, another conspiracy theory … I'd better stop now and put on my tin foil hat...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
There is a sale on tinfoil hats at Sears. One dozen for just a dollar. If you spent $100 it would be very well invested. Hurry!
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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
oops, another conspiracy theory … I'd better stop now and put on my tin foil hat...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
I actually had a friend who wanted to develop a line of tin foil hats ... along with designer face masks and large whistles that you hang around your neck ... I thought that it was a good idea ...
When it all comes out, which it often does, I promise to be gracious with my "told you so" ...
after all, Rolling Stone has already apologized ...
https://www.zengardner.com/rolling-s...ts-an-apology/
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
There is a sale on tinfoil hats at Sears. One dozen for just a dollar. If you spent $100 it would be very well invested. Hurry!
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Speaking of the ridiculous in the world of supposed false flag events, there's this gem ... ( Shakespeare was right ... all the world's a stage ... )
https://www.activistpost.com/2013/04...r-bbc-for.html
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
.
The video, below, is utter bollocks. That British gent is a right rotter!
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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
not sure if that's a joke Edward, since you're commenting with British slang, but just in case you're serious here's coverage of the same event by British press ...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...acts-9-11.html
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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
.
The video, below, is utter bollocks. That British gent is a right rotter!
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Sigh...... I hate to always be such a wet blanket, but the Brit is absolutely correct. It's easy to search for the video of the BBC newscaster, speaking from New York, saying that Building 7 had collapsed when the view behind her of the NYC skyscape showed the building still standing. Right after she said it the video feed went staticky and cut to London where the anchor said they were having technical problems in New York.
The BBC later made some pro-forma claims about the background not being time synched to the studio or some such, but people have proved by careful analysis (I forget just how) that that was not the case. Go search for it in YouTube -- it's fun to watch her speaking with the (lightly) smoking building in the background.
Of course, Tony Rooke is trying to make a political point and draw public attention to the fact of what happened. He's not really worried about being accused of terrorism for paying his BBC license fee to an organization that supports terrorism or anything like that. It's not completely clear why the BBC announcer said what she did, but the obvious supposition is that the BBC had foreknowledge that the building would fall and jumped the gun in reporting it. I believe Mayor Giuliani also said earlier in the that he expected the building to collapse. If there had been any objective reasons to think Building 7 would collapse, it would be a different story, but such was not the case. Remember, the Buildings 1 and 2 were the only cases in history where steel-concrete buildings collapsed from fire.
Or am I missing whatever part of the story you guys thought was ridiculous? Sometimes I'm a little dense and need things explained.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
sorry Phredo, I didn't make myself clear .... by "ridiculous" I was referring to the fact that the BBC was reporting the destruction of bldg 7 twenty minutes before it occurred .... I love that Tony Rooke called them on this and won his case ....
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by phredo:
Sigh...... I hate to always be such a wet blanket, but the Brit is absolutely correct. It's easy to search for the video of the BBC newscaster, speaking from New York, saying that Building 7 had collapsed when the view behind her of the NYC skyscape showed the building still standing...
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
"Oh, that's very different...... Nevermind!"
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
sorry Phredo, I didn't make myself clear .... by "ridiculous" I was referring to the fact that the BBC was reporting the destruction of bldg 7 twenty minutes before it occurred .... I love that Tony Rooke called them on this and won his case ....
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
Hmm....an alleged massive scale false flag operation that logically had to involve hundreds of people: fake parents, fake teachers, fake kids, fake school officials, fake neighbors in the community, fake local emergency responders, fake media reporters, fake city officials, etc. etc. etc. which logistically must have taken many, many years to set up, and all in order to push tighter gun control laws. Given that gun control laws across the country have mostly loosened not tightened since Sandy Hook I guess it didn't work out so well.
Scott
Yes, it's absolutely logical and reasonable to say there's no possibility it could be true. But is there also a bit of unsettled curiosity too?
I think there's a bigger picture that applies to all these controversial issues called 'conspiracy' or 'truther'.
Please tell me if I'm right that you are somewhat perplexed with one part of you annoyed, sitting with it's arms folded rolling it's eyes at the ludicrousness of the crazy thinking of soooooo many people, but another part of your gut is curious and poking you to take a closer look at all the other stuff that doesn't make sense either.
Like it doesn't make sense why the hell sooooooo many people won't let go of these huge crazy concepts and are sooooooo mad about the injustices they feel are being perpetrated.
It doesn't make sense why there's also so many seemingly lucid, educated and intelligent people so willing to expose themselves to ridicule from their friends, family and community to stand for such preposterous things.
If you're honest, you can't really lump them in one crazy pile, and you can't dismiss them all with contemptuous superiority because occasionally they do point out undeniable questions and facts that puts a gaping hole in your 'logical and reasonable' story that doesn't make sense either.... but there it is.
You also don't see yourself as someone like Edward infuriated at any challenge to his sacred story and hatcheting all suggested gaping holes with derision and name calling as if this gives their blind dismissal weight.... never allowing himself to consider the possible gravity of the contradictory facts.
It leaves the honest and logical part of you with opposing lists of your own logic and you're wondering what the hell is going on.
I think there are many people hesitating at that door and curious how to make sense of it all. Am I on the right track?
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
.
Los Angeles Times
Body of Connecticut shooter Adam Lanza quietly claimed by his father
December 31, 2012, By Matt Pearce
Massacre at elementary school in Newtown, Conn.
The body of Newtown, Conn., shooter Adam Lanza was claimed by his father last week, a family spokesman said Monday.
Peter Lanza claimed his son's body from the Connecticut medical examiner last Thursday, said family spokesman Errol Cockfield.
“Private arrangements took place over the weekend," Cockfield said. He declined to elaborate further about the nature of the arrangements.
Connecticut Chief State Medical Examiner H. Wayne Carver, confirmed that Lanza's body is "finally gone."
Adam Lanza, 20, killed 20 first-graders and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14 and then committed suicide. He also killed his mother in their Newtown home before the rampage.
A private funeral was held earlier this month in New Hampshire for his mother, Nancy Lanza, who was divorced from Peter Lanza.
https://articles.latimes.com/images/pixel.gif
Authorities have not offered a motive for the killings. State police say they have been exploring all aspects of Adam Lanza's life, including his education, family history and medical treatment for clues.
"Our family is grieving along with all those who have been affected by this enormous tragedy," Peter Lanza said in a statement in the days after the shooting. "No words can truly express how heartbroken we are. We are in a state of disbelief and trying to find whatever answers we can. We too are asking why."
Peter Lanza lives in Stamford, Conn., and is an executive with GE Energy Financial Services.
Adam Lanza, who was known to be very shy, had a tight relationship with his mother but was estranged from his father after the couple's 2001 separation was finalized in a 2009 divorce.
Peter Lanza had seen his son weekly after the separation, according to a family acquaintance. But Adam Lanza began refusing to see him after Peter began seeing another woman whom he later married, according to Shelley Cudiner, an employee at the library at the University of Connecticut.
Adam Lanza also began refusing to see his brother, Ryan, an accountant in Manhattan, after their parents' 2009 divorce.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
well said Alex ....
I think that most of us are looking for facts and I think that these discussions are good ... we have a well educated population on this forum and opinions are unlikely to be accepted without some factual support behind them and that's as it should be ... you will notice in the documentary that I posted that these "truthers" are stressing the facts ... the same goes for 9/11 truthers ... nothing else really matters ... of course, interpretation of the facts gets more complicated ...
In my own life it was injustice that led me to question the status quo ... truthfully, I preferred a life of blissful ignorance, but it's too late for that now ...
I will say that what I've found on my journey of questions and research is truly amazing, and I'm not alone in this ... lots of people are questioning the official stories ...
So what determines beliefs? ... this is a one hour documentary which is well worth watching ... it is about the role of propaganda and media and how we are manipulated in this world ... most of you will already know this, but still it's interesting ... you don't have to agree with the stories put forth to get the general gist of it all ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuaKHhNBTNA&t=385
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Alex:
Yes, it's absolutely logical and reasonable to say there's no possibility it could be true. But is there also a bit of unsettled curiosity too?
I think there's a bigger picture that applies to all these controversial issues called 'conspiracy' or 'truther'.
Please tell me if I'm right that you are somewhat perplexed with one part of you annoyed, sitting with it's arms folded rolling it's eyes at the ludicrousness of the crazy thinking of soooooo many people, but another part of your gut is curious and poking you to take a closer look at all the other stuff that doesn't make sense either.
Like it doesn't make sense why the hell sooooooo many people won't let go of these huge crazy concepts and are sooooooo mad about the injustices they feel are being perpetrated.
It doesn't make sense why there's also so many seemingly lucid, educated and intelligent people so willing to expose themselves to ridicule from their friends, family and community to stand for such preposterous things.
If you're honest, you can't really lump them in one crazy pile, and you can't dismiss them all with contemptuous superiority because occasionally they do point out undeniable questions and facts that puts a gaping hole in your 'logical and reasonable' story that doesn't make sense either.... but there it is.
You also don't see yourself as someone like Edward infuriated at any challenge to his sacred story and hatcheting all suggested gaping holes with derision and name calling as if this gives their blind dismissal weight.... never allowing himself to consider the possible gravity of the contradictory facts.
It leaves the honest and logical part of you with opposing lists of your own logic and you're wondering what the hell is going on.
I think there are many people hesitating at that door and curious how to make sense of it all. Am I on the right track?
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Would our government intentionally kill children and adults to push an agenda for gun control? Or sacrifice lives as in 9/11 to create fear of terrorism, and that agenda?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
.
Phredo, I reassert the fact that anyone who says:
1. The government
may have murdered 20 children and 6 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School.
Or:
2. The government
may have used actors to pretend to be grieving parents.
is indeed very delusional, irresponsible, reckless, naive, ignorant, immature, and has extremely poor judgment. And that's putting it lightly:
Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting conspiracy theories:
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
Hmm....an alleged massive scale false flag operation that logically had to involve hundreds of people: fake parents, fake teachers, fake kids, fake school officials, fake neighbors in the community, fake local emergency responders, fake media reporters, fake city officials, etc. etc. etc. which logistically must have taken many, many years to set up, and all in order to push tighter gun control laws. Given that gun control laws across the country have mostly loosened not tightened since Sandy Hook I guess it didn't work out so well.
Scott
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Alex:
Yes, it's absolutely logical and reasonable to say there's no possibility it could be true. But is there also a bit of unsettled curiosity too?
I think there's a bigger picture that applies to all these controversial issues called 'conspiracy' or 'truther'.
Please tell me if I'm right that you are somewhat perplexed with one part of you annoyed, sitting with it's arms folded rolling it's eyes at the ludicrousness of the crazy thinking of soooooo many people, but another part of your gut is curious and poking you to take a closer look at all the other stuff that doesn't make sense either.
Like it doesn't make sense why the hell sooooooo many people won't let go of these huge crazy concepts and are sooooooo mad about the injustices they feel are being perpetrated.
It doesn't make sense why there's also so many seemingly lucid, educated and intelligent people so willing to expose themselves to ridicule from their friends, family and community to stand for such preposterous things.
If you're honest, you can't really lump them in one crazy pile, and you can't dismiss them all with contemptuous superiority because occasionally they do point out undeniable questions and facts that puts a gaping hole in your 'logical and reasonable' story that doesn't make sense either.... but there it is.
You also don't see yourself as someone like Edward infuriated at any challenge to his sacred story and hatcheting all suggested gaping holes with derision and name calling as if this gives their blind dismissal weight.... never allowing himself to consider the possible gravity of the contradictory facts.
It leaves the honest and logical part of you with opposing lists of your own logic and you're wondering what the hell is going on.
I think there are many people hesitating at that door and curious how to make sense of it all. Am I on the right track?
Wow. Quite a lot of conjecture here over my little comment from someone I don't know and never met. I'm not going to be drawn in to your psychoanalysis of me. I don't call people out personally, or call them names, or try to do unsolicited psychoanalysis of individuals on this forum. I might have been a bit too personally insulting a couple of times on Wacco way back, which I regret, but I haven't done that for a very long time and won't do it. I try to stick to the ideas and be respectful and not call people out personally.
Scott
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
A lot of folks in our government would never do this Shandi ... we have lots of good people who take their oath seriously and really want to serve the people ...
But our government is huge and complex and JFK, along with many other presidents, warned us about a "shadow government" which is totally corrupt, hides in the deep crevices of the infrastructure, and actually calls the shots. Information is compartmentalized so that the good politicians never know what these criminals are doing. This is now being exposed and the general public is realizing it.
I posted this a few days ago ... it shines a light on all of this ... warning, it's very ugly ...
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...891#post188891
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:
Would our government intentionally kill children and adults to push an agenda for gun control? Or sacrifice lives as in 9/11 to create fear of terrorism, and that agenda?
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
Wow. Quite a lot of conjecture here over my little comment from someone I don't know and never met. I'm not going to be drawn in to your psychoanalysis of me. I don't call people out personally, or call them names, or try to do unsolicited psychoanalysis of individuals on this forum. I might have been a bit too personally insulting a couple of times on Wacco way back, which I regret, but I haven't done that for a very long time and won't do it. I try to stick to the ideas and be respectful and not call people out personally.
Scott
I asked twice if you agreed. The opinions you've contributed in various of these categories suggested you were paying attention and I was asking if it included an aspect of the curiosity dilemma I described. No telling you what you were thinking was intended or calling you out on anything. Sorry if it came off that way to you.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:
Would our government intentionally kill children and adults to push an agenda for gun control?
hey, neither 'government' or 'corporations' are people, despite Mitt's claims.
The better question is "do you think there are enough people willing to intentionally kill children to push an agenda AND can they get together in order to plan it; and if so would they be able to keep it secret?"
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Wow! Robert Steele is highest "cred" person I've heard to speak that way about Sandy Hook and the Boston Bombing, even though I confess I've never heard of him before. It's enough (or almost, anyway) enough to get me listening more to Alex Jones, although mostly I'm happy to just have my attention brought to it when he does something especially good. The thing about him is that he really has the resources to do some good investigating and interviewing, and he always makes sense, even though I'm not always on his side of an issue. But he and Bonnie Faulkner's "Guns And Butter" show on KPFA are where I first learned about 9/11. And I would never have learned anything about Waco and the Oklahoma City bombing except for Alex Jones' good work.
The article about Denmark and British 9/11 court cases takes some work to get up to speed if one is not familiar already with the cases. Since I was somewhat familiar with them, it was educational. It's good to see "9/11 truth" expert witnesses getting some good public exposure through court cases.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
this is a good discussion about false flags and what is needed in today's world to verify information ...
https://realitieswatch.com/boston-bo...wsfalse-flags/
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
ok, I've got to admit that I don't have the stomach to watch any more videos. Maybe I'm oldschool but if they can't explain the conspiracy in print, I don't want to hear about it. But I'm still curious enough to follow a few links now and again, though I continue to be let down by the quality of the expose' that's being offered as clear-cut fact.
anyway, Naomi Wolf has a bit of a track record so I tried to track this down in actual print. Most links seemed to be to this same video. I did find something with, surprisingly enough, her own byline:
https://www.project-syndicate.org/co...-by-naomi-wolf
Funny, when I read it I saw nothing claiming the U.S. government was behind the bombings, or any claim they were staged. All I saw was a commentary that claims the public is reacting in a less Pavlovian manner to the cry "terrorist!!!" and that people are justifiably suspicious of the action of the various powers that be - and are less likely to think that America is right at all times. She seems to be pretty mainstream, as far as critical thinkers go. The most far-fetched claim she makes is that "most Americans have learned from the past". I'm not as sanguine.
Maybe that's all that was meant by the original reference to her comments, so sorry if I misinterpreted it as claiming she believes that there's any truth to the idea of false-flag activities like faking this or Sandy Hook.
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
In that video, Wolf said, "A law was passed in the United States that now make it legal for the CIA and Homeland Security to create false news stories based on fictitious events, and presumably that law was passed for a reason," and, "It's not 'crazy' to assess news events, in the United States now, not only in foreign countries, to see if they've been engineered by the CIA." Those are paraphrases, but close. The linked clip is only 9 minutes long and worth watching to get the full sense of just how she responded to a question which was about whether the Boston bombing was a true or fictitious event. (And 9 minutes is a lot less than the 3hr27min video you linked to a few posts ago!:wink:)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
ok, I've got to admit that I don't have the stomach to watch any more videos. Maybe I'm oldschool but if they can't explain the conspiracy in print, I don't want to hear about it. But I'm still curious enough to follow a few links now and again, though I continue to be let down by the quality of the expose' that's being offered as clear-cut fact....
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
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Re: Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theory
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
seriously, don't these people think their audience can read???
what's the internet coming to? all the news sites are filling up with slide shows and silly little youtube videos too, and stories like "You won't believe the XXX" or "you've been doing YYY wrong" or some other clickbait pimp-tease. Most (or maybe just several, I don't know) TV-news sites at least offer transcripts along with their video.
The information density on video is excruciatingly low. Even the density of a talk is less than in print. This is a sign of the decay in discourse - people aren't interested in depth of analysis - they want bang! wow! see that!!!!
I'm sure we're all doomed.
