Efren charged with "misdemeanor peeking"

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...1_13-11-07.png
Efren and his lawyer, Chris Adrian

According to the PD article, Efren has been charged with "misdemeanor peeking". Chris Adrian, Efren's lawyer, ask to delay Efren's plea until December 13th (another Friday, 6 weeks away, with Christmas approaching).

He was not charged with the felony of Burglary.

As far as I can tell, "peeking" is legally equivalent to "prowling". Both being specified in CAL. PEN. CODE § 647:

"Every person who commits any of the following acts is guilty of disorderly conduct, a misdemeanor:
...

(i)Who, while loitering, prowling, or wandering upon the private property of another, at any time, peeks in the door or window of any inhabited building or structure, without visible or lawful business with the owner or occupant. "

Having the prosecutor bring the charge as "peeking" vs. "prowling" has the distinction of easily being referred to as "peeping".

I think this is appropriate. While you could argue that burglary was wanted since he "entered" by rustling the blinds, it's just barely entering.

Now it's question if there is a plea bargain and what plea Efren submits and what the finding of the court.

Sure seems to me that he is guilty as charged. I encourage him to plead guilty and move on.

Efren made no comments, including regarding his political future. Recall discussions will undoubtedly get more intense. I remain against recall effort.

What do you think about the charge, possible plea bargain, recall effort, and anything else related to this sordid affair?

Interesting that this hearing took place the morning that the new FBI Director was featured on KSRO news speaking about stopping corruption in politics. He was in Sacramento for some dirty business going on with one or more state elected officials.

Wonder if he and Mr. Brown were doing some other horse trading regarding our local political dirt???

Something smells; felt it rant-worthy.

After attending Carrillo's hearing this morning, here's my latest truth remediation outreach in Colleen's Blog...:2cents:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...933#post172933

I want to see a united effort for a recall ASAP - Red/Blue/Green & everything in between!:waccosun:

I remain FOR a recall effort. This is not an individual who is fit for office.

Sonoma county protects its own, political figures, police, and the justice system. What about that poor women that is dealing with someone breaking into her bedroom while she is sleeping. Peeking charges really, how sad, and that's the respect women get in Sonoma county. So,, if I go to your home and cut the screen window, move the shades, while wearing shorts and socks, I won't go to jail and just a slap on the hand for peeking, really. Follow the money and who's protecting bad boy Efren. He needs to be remove from office now.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

I remain FOR a recall effort. This is not an individual who is fit for office.

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Letter I wrote to the PD re no Letters to the Editor published about EC's charge:
It seems the fix is in, even with our local newspaper. Not one single letter concerning Efren Carrillo getting charged with a misdemeanor “peeking” charge after attempting to break into a woman’s bedroom in the wee hours, drunk and in his underwear!? I know many, many concerned and outraged citizens, including myself, who have written the PD about our reaction to this shocking pathetic charge. Why haven’t these letters, or even one, been published? Just curious.

Not only did he "rustle the blinds" - he came back to her door! Peeking? So pathetic. Efren Carrillo needs to go now, along with all of his sycophantic politicos who have been wiping up after him...

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Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck:

Sonoma county protects its own, political figures, police, and the justice system. What about that poor women that is dealing with someone breaking into her bedroom while she is sleeping. Peeking charges really, how sad, and that's the respect women get in Sonoma county. So,, if I go to your home and cut the screen window, move the shades, while wearing shorts and socks, I won't go to jail and just a slap on the hand for peeking, really. Follow the money and who's protecting bad boy Efren. He needs to be remove from office now.

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I've not taken a position re: the resolution of the Efren situation, because I feel strongly about reserving judgment until all facts are in. But, if there's reason to believe that he's the one who damaged the woman's screen, a charge of vandalism or even breaking and entering (if he stuck his hand or--one shudders to think--another protuberance in) would seem to be in order. Then again, if he denies having damaged the screen, they probably couldn't make a case for even charging him with anything other than peeking. But--maybe harrassment or disturbing the peace for knocking on her door at around 3:40 AM?

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Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck:

Sonoma county protects its own, political figures, police, and the justice system. What about that poor women that is dealing with someone breaking into her bedroom while she is sleeping. Peeking charges really, how sad, and that's the respect women get in Sonoma county. So,, if I go to your home and cut the screen window, move the shades, while wearing shorts and socks, I won't go to jail and just a slap on the hand for peeking, really. Follow the money and who's protecting bad boy Efren. He needs to be remove from office now.

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The Strident voices of professional victims force me to respond,

Why is there still such a lust to crucify instead of the what the f was going on with him to be wandering around in socks and underwear carrying a cell phone in the middle of the night?

It is ludicrous to imagine this as a dedicated effort to molest a woman.

So all of this wonder of how better our world would be if women ran things, I still see the women's voices who would burn someone at the stake if the laws allowed it, but if not that lets just ruin him.

Sorry people there's no super-humans running our country, they don't exist. Its been a long time that people lived in a world where they had enough time and people to get all of their lessons before they were crucially required.

We live in a day where children have been raising children for generations and the world we have is a result of that.

Back to the future is the only hope for us.

Good point. As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear climbing through women's windows would be a good start though...

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

The Strident voices of professional victims force me to respond,

Why is there still such a lust to crucify instead of the what the f was going on with him to be wandering around in socks and underwear carrying a cell phone in the middle of the night?

It is ludicrous to imagine this as a dedicated effort to molest a woman.

So all of this wonder of how better our world would be if women ran things, I still see the women's voices who would burn someone at the stake if the laws allowed it, but if not that lets just ruin him.

Sorry people there's no super-humans running our country, they don't exist. Its been a long time that people lived in a world where they had enough time and people to get all of their lessons before they were crucially required.

We live in a day where children have been raising children for generations and the world we have is a result of that.

Back to the future is the only hope for us.

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Thank you for catching the points but, climbing through a window didn't happen. What does that say about you?

just curious

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Good point. As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear climbing through women's windows would be a good start though...

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My error - you are correct - climbing through a window didn't happen...

Correction to my statement above - what I should have said:

As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear PEEKING through women's windows would be a good start, though..

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

Thank you for catching the points but, climbing through a window didn't happen. What does that say about you?

just curious

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It would be interesting if you would elaborate right here on what impulse made you want to make it worse than it was.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

My error - you are correct - climbing through a window didn't happen...

Correction to my statement above - what I should have said:

As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear PEEKING through women's windows would be a good start, though..

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Well, my original letter got published today in the PD: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-Carrillo-case
(I think I was a little too fired up.)
But, seriously, what does the community think about having a protest either outside the Supervisors' next meeting, at his next court appearance, or outside his home? Some of us could wear underwear and socks, carry empty liquor bottles and hold signs in "support" of drunken stalkers. Any interest?
Has anyone begun the recall process?

I dont see anyone making it worse than it was. The terrified victim told 911 that someone was rustling the blinds. You can't rustle them if you are truly on the *outside*, can you?

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

It would be interesting if you would elaborate right here on what impulse made you want to make it worse than it was.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

It would be interesting if you would elaborate right here on what impulse made you want to make it worse than it was.

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Geez!

So far I also haven't taken a position either, except to wait for a legal resolution of the case. It now seems that has been done. Efren has not been charged with any major crime and can not be removed from office by the Board. An expensive and bitter re-call effort is now the only way. The taxpayers can ill afford that.

My position now is to let Efren run out his term and support him in his battle against his addictions. He has made some life changing mistakes and may turn out to be a better person for them in the long run, although he may not be able to resurrect his political career... that remains to be seen. I believe he is perfectly able to represent the district I live in and he probably needs a focus like that at this time.

I know that a lot of you don't feel this way and that's ok. We all need to work this out for ourselves, with love in our hearts, if possible.

Tom

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

I've not taken a position re: the resolution of the Efren situation, because I feel strongly about reserving judgment until all facts are in. But, if there's reason to believe that he's the one who damaged the woman's screen, a charge of vandalism or even breaking and entering (if he stuck his hand or--one shudders to think--another protuberance in) would seem to be in order. Then again, if he denies having damaged the screen, they probably couldn't make a case for even charging him with anything other than peeking. But--maybe harrassment or disturbing the peace for knocking on her door at around 3:40 AM?

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efenCs response to your question is binge drinking and we have learned here it runs in the family. drinkers respond, yes i, thats weird i don't run in my undies and bother neighbor women! people arrested and convicted of sexual crimes, while they might be professionals, are rarely professional about it. its a diverse obsession, with a very low rate (compared to other crimes), of recidivism. there are a lot of false urban myths about these harmful actions and the people who do them. efren needs compassion and clear guidance. we voters have our role, those who ignore his behavior continue cycles of abuse, just look at what happened in forestville, facilitated by efren.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

The Strident voices of professional victims force me to respond,

Why is there still such a lust to crucify instead of the what the f was going on with him to be wandering around in socks and underwear carrying a cell phone in the middle of the night?

It is ludicrous to imagine this as a dedicated effort to molest a woman.

So all of this wonder of how better our world would be if women ran things, I still see the women's voices who would burn someone at the stake if the laws allowed it, but if not that lets just ruin him.

Sorry people there's no super-humans running our country, they don't exist. Its been a long time that people lived in a world where they had enough time and people to get all of their lessons before they were crucially required.

We live in a day where children have been raising children for generations and the world we have is a result of that.

Back to the future is the only hope for us.

---

There are NO reports that this man was 'climbing through women's windows'. This man was impaired and misjudged his own actions, going out on a hot night in his skivvies 'caterwauling', if you will. You freaks who want to hang him need to find a more positive way to change the world. Dorothy Friberg

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Good point. As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear climbing through women's windows would be a good start though...

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Were you "a little too fired up" even as the subject in question may have been a little too fired up on the night in question and then proceeded to the front door to let the woman know that he was a neighbor and acquaintance. Hindsight doesn't always correct our mistakes of the past but may apply in future actions.

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Posted in reply to the post by sambacat:

Well, my original letter got published today in the PD: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...-Carrillo-case
(I think I was a little too fired up.)
But, seriously, what does the community think about having a protest either outside the Supervisors' next meeting, at his next court appearance, or outside his home? Some of us could wear underwear and socks, carry empty liquor bottles and hold signs in "support" of drunken stalkers. Any interest?
Has anyone begun the recall process?

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Good point. As for me, I'm not looking for a superhuman, man or woman, to run the country. Someone who's not running around in their socks and underwear climbing through women's windows would be a good start though...

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diane. Let's forget about Efren, now and for good. If we ignore him, he'll go away, sooner or later. There is nothing that public opinion can do to change things, or something would be different now. Yes?

Is my "freak" flag flying AGAIN? Ha! I agree with you, Dorothy - we need to find a more positive way to change the world. I don't know about you, but as for me, I would start by refraining from namecalling...

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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:

There are NO reports that this man was 'climbing through women's windows'. This man was impaired and misjudged his own actions, going out on a hot night in his skivvies 'caterwauling', if you will. You freaks who want to hang him need to find a more positive way to change the world. Dorothy Friberg

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Your ridiculous comparison hardly deserves a response. But, really, Dorothy, you seriously compare a little outraged rhetoric to the actions of an almost naked, drunken man, terrifying a sleeping woman, alone in her house, by grappling with her blinds through a torn screen of a window in her bedroom and then pounding on her door in the wee hours of the morning?? Why would she call 911 twice, if he was only politely knocking and saying "hello, I'm your neighbor"? A pathetic sycophant of Efren's, I can only surmise.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:

Were you "a little too fired up" even as the subject in question may have been a little too fired up on the night in question and then proceeded to the front door to let the woman know that he was a neighbor and acquaintance. Hindsight doesn't always correct our mistakes of the past but may apply in future actions.

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no, public opinion matters greatly to elected officials. the longer we discus this, the greater chance for change. if we ignore efren, his incumbent status might carry him through reelection. civic culture, citizens paying attention to government, is what makes democracy function for the greatest number of people. yes, it is not always fun and/or easy.

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Posted in reply to the post by lolasmom:

diane. Let's forget about Efren, now and for good. If we ignore him, he'll go away, sooner or later. There is nothing that public opinion can do to change things, or something would be different now. Yes?

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Don't forget to vote.

I dont know about any other women..but this sure makes me feel like none of us are protected from men in underwear peeking in our windows. A misdemeanor? Really? Isnt peeking in a woman's window while in your underwear a sex crime? A peeping Tom? COME ON already!!

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Here's a belated update to Efren's case: He pleaded "not guilty" to the peeking charge on Friday, December 13th as reported by the PD.

I must say I am disappointed to see that. He seemed to all but admit he did by his public statement when he returned to the Supervisors meeting on August 20th. Admitting guilt seemed to me to be the most honorable path forward.

I'm sorry I missed that development... but then again, by scheduling his plea on a Friday, it was designed to be missed.

Further, the upcoming dates for this trial are also scheduled for Fridays:

"Antolini set a trial for Feb. 28, but ordered both sides to try to reach a settlement and return to court Jan. 17 to report any resolution."

Note that Jan 17th is a Friday before the 3-day Martin Luther King, Jr. weekend and Feb 28th is a Friday as well!

I'm not the only one noticing this pattern of trying to bury news on Fridays or holidays. See this New York Times "In Announcing Unfavorable News, Timing Is Everything" regarding some recent news released before Christmas and other notable attempts to hide things in plain sight.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for further developments on Jan 17th and Feb 28th! :wink2:

Barry

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's a belated update to Efren's case: He pleaded "not guilty" to the peeking charge on Friday, December 13th as reported by the PD.

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With every event in this whole sordid story, Mr. Carillo reinforces the perception that he is a politician of limitless avarice, at best, sociopath at worst. It is obvious to everyone except Mr. Carillo that his actions continue to besmirch his name and reputation in Sonoma County to the point where he will be unemployable once he leaves office. Perhaps he does know that, actually, which explains why he is attempting to hold on to his remaining paychecks with all his might.

I can't imagine anyone having to deal with him in his official capacity taking him seriously anymore, and his desperation to prove himself a "real" politician could lead to some truly horrendous bargains being struck.

He obviously refuses to do the most honorable thing for himself and the county, and it is that arrogance which will seal his fate.

:balance::yinyang::sweep:

Barry, We all knew when his court appearance was scheduled and the results were in the paper and on the papers website. I was aware of it and was surprised no one comented about it here on this site. I guess we've all been pretty busy with other things.
As far as the not guilty plea, that is always the best choice in any dealings with the court as it then gives a chance to work out a plea deal (settlement) with the prosecution and any lawyer would recommend that.
Don't forget, after these legal issues are finished, there is probably going to be a lawsuit filed by the victim and some kind of settlement to be reached there. How the legal settlement is dealt with could affect that settlement. Anyone would be foolish not to follow their lawyers advice in these complicated legal issues.
As for the court dates, they were set by the judge, as you indicated, and perhaps there may be some sympathetic scheduling going on, Who knows.

All the Best,
Tom

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's a belated update to Efren's case: He pleaded "not guilty" to the peeking charge on Friday, December 13th as reported by the PD.

I must say I am disappointed to see that. He seemed to all but admit he did by his public statement when he returned to the Supervisors meeting on August 20th. Admitting guilt seemed to me to be the most honorable path forward.

I'm sorry I missed that development... but then again, by scheduling his plea on a Friday, it was designed to be missed.

Further, the upcoming dates for this trial are also scheduled for Fridays:

"Antolini set a trial for Feb. 28, but ordered both sides to try to reach a settlement and return to court Jan. 17 to report any resolution."

Note that Jan 17th is a Friday before the 3-day Martin Luther King, Jr. weekend and Feb 28th is a Friday as well!

I'm not the only one noticing this pattern of trying to bury news on Fridays or holidays. See this New York Times "In Announcing Unfavorable News, Timing Is Everything" regarding some recent news released before Christmas and other notable attempts to hide things in plain sight.

I'll be sure to keep an eye out for further developments on Jan 17th and Feb 28th! :wink2:

Barry

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Disappointed, but not surprised. Not guilty?! Slimeball...

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's a belated update to Efren's case: He pleaded "not guilty" to the peeking charge on Friday, December 13th as reported by the PD.

I must say I am disappointed to see that. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Disappointed, but not surprised. Not guilty?! Slimeball...

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The blinds moving awoke the women who called 911 twice. The story in the Press Democrat noted that the screen had been cut. A man in his underwear was banging on the door of his neighbor in the early morning, that man happen to be supervisor of the fifth district of Sonoma County. Now, Efren is charged with peeking, he didn't cut the screen window and the rattling of the blinds was imagined by the victim. If the window blinds were closed, then who moved them to allow Efren the ability to peek? Charging Efren with the offense of peeking is an offense to most women of Sonoma County.

just tonight, i ran into a woman who i'd met at the sebastopol grange 5th district meeting, called to voice our thoughts and feeling about what to do about 'our' supervisor. she reminded me of the mother who spoke and told us all about having witnessed having carillo slip his hand beneath her daughter's blouse.

carillo's pattern is consistent and highly disturbing. shunting it all aside is the way of the political machine, complicit with the other branches of government - district attorney and sheriff/police - all working together, for each other rather than the public good, or even justice.

disowned by his own demographic (latino political action committee), dozens/hundreds of his own constituents, loads of people county-wide, and certainly all women who've ever had unwanted weird / threatening /violent sexual experiences from men - ALL THIS IS FOR NOUGHT. the creepy slime ball continues to collect his salary of $154,000 and sit on an elevated seat, literally ABOVE the people of this county, and make decisions/deals… business as usual. the shame is visible in his eyes - AND the eyes of everyone in county government - all have been tainted by letting this go unpunished, REALLY. everyone feels slimed. it is quite palpable.

the lame and insulting comment to those who would have him removed from public office and brought to justice, written here on THIS bb ("what punishment do you want - castration?") offers some insight into how that male sarcastically goes about minimizing the deed and its consequences.

yes: it is truly galling to have crimes committed, and have the perpetrators - if they are well-positioned/connected or wealthy - go free or virtually free. common in all corporate positions of power and all governmental levels, when it is THIS close to home, it feels particularly disgusting and infuriating.
sincerely, jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck:

The blinds moving awoke the women who called 911 twice. The story in the Press Democrat noted that the screen had been cut. A man in his underwear was banging on the door of his neighbor in the early morning, that man happen to be supervisor of the fifth district of Sonoma County. Now, Efren is charged with peeking, he didn't cut the screen window and the rattling of the blinds was imagined by the victim. If the window blinds were closed, then who moved them to allow Efren the ability to peek? Charging Efren with the offense of peeking is an offense to most women of Sonoma County.

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Slimeball!

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Posted in reply to the post by jude iam:

just tonight, i ran into a woman who i'd met at the sebastopol grange 5th district meeting, called to voice our thoughts and feeling about what to do about 'our' supervisor. She reminded me of the mother who spoke and told us all about having witnessed having carillo slip his hand beneath her daughter's blouse.

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I get the sentiment that there are those here who would just love to rule a mob.

I have had my opinion changed that the rule by women would be as vengeful as rule by man

I am honestly sick of seeing the eagerness of the mob, as seemingly endlessly represented here, to jump to judgment. We have a court system precisely because of this sort of "decision" making by innuendo.Our court system may seem slow to some, but it does have the affect of slowing the rush to judgment I still see reflected here.

I am a woman who survived a horrendous, and nearly fatal sexual assault many years ago. Though I am not saying this makes me any expert in all matters to do with the law, or justice, I am sick of seeing this constant escalation of character assassination. I am struck by the ability of others to feel they can bypass the whole judicial system in their own minds.

I am really offended that whatever went on that night is somehow equated to an actual assault in the terribly active imaginations of folks who seem to have little else to occupy their time. Whatever went on that night will work it's way out in the court, and in the lives of those who were actually there.

It seems that both sides of this equation are about the business of taking care of issues related to it. Certainly substance abuse and it's treatment is a very integral part of this. So is any sort of counseling which might be helpful to the woman involved.

I personally found counseling and self defense classes (eventually) to be very helpful as a way toward a better life. I also eventually pursued Women's Studies at a local university, and got involved in women's healthcare as a lifelong career. I also helped, as a volunteer, in getting education in my local schools about sex roles and safety in dating, and substance abuse, and its' trajectory. It seemed to be a good way to channel my need to see something positive come out of my experience.

If folks are uninformed about the nature of substance abuse and addiction, and treatment this is an opportunity to take these concerns and study this issue, and become better informed, and hopefully more compassionate. If folks are actually concerned with these issues as a community issue, what about helping out with schools and education to do with any of the relevant issues, (also :substance abuse and its effects on behavior), volunteering at women's shelters, rape counseling centers, or any of the myriad other agencies which could use this excess energy. There are unlimited ways to generate positive change.

I would dearly love to see some mention here of ways this incident has motivated folks to take positive steps to improve our community in some of these ways, and perhaps agencies that are related who offer volunteer opportunities needing new helpers. This is one constructive thing I can see that could help make positive change toward a safer,and more understanding community. Does anyone else have positive suggestions toward a better, more educated, and compassionate community?

Wishing peace, kindness, and compassion to our community........

I'm still looking for an example of "mob mentality" that a couple of posters have referred to. In case they were referring to me, I reread my posts several times, as well as those of others - still not finding reference to it. Holding an elected official accountable - yep, I'm guilty of that one. His time in court - of course! I am, however, wary of folks who play the "C" card (Compassion!) while preaching from their own soapbox.

I once attempted to correspond with Efren and his staff, regarding the ethical compromises of voting against the will of your constituents. I was met with confrontational dialog, from the staff and Efren's refusal to call me back or email a response. In observing his political technique and manipulation of the legal process, there is little doubt that he is and always will be a manipulator and a Wolf in Sheep's clothing.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thad:

I get the sentiment that there are those here who would just love to rule a mob.

I have had my opinion changed that the rule by women would be as vengeful as rule by man

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Oh Boy...

The only way to have your day in court is to plead not guilty, if you plead guilty there is no trial, no anything, the judge will sentence to whatever his opinion of the matter is according to sentencing guidelines, its the nature of the beast but its what our Constitution/Bill of Rights allows each and every person in America, the right to confront your accuser in a court of law.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Disappointed, but not surprised. Not guilty?! Slimeball...

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https://www.change.org/petitions/sup...ase-resign-now

I have received many petitions from change.org, and I've signed most of them.

Having watched Supervisor Carrillo's trial by media, I will be hesitant to sign any of them in the future. I can no longer trust the information change.org sends me, and will tell them so.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

https://www.change.org/petitions/sup...ase-resign-now

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Posted in reply to the post by sandoak:

I have received many petitions from change.org, and I've signed most of them.

Having watched Supervisor Carrillo's trial by media, I will be hesitant to sign any of them in the future. I can no longer trust the information change.org sends me, and will tell them so.

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I think it's important to note that change.org is just a vehicle for organizations to use for signature gathering, nothing more. It's a good way to have your voice heard on issues that are important to you, and of course, not all issues are! Thank you, sandoak.

Good point, Victoria.

Nonetheless, I'm unlikely to sign any change.org petitions in the future - unless I have independent verification of the story presented.

Having watched Efren Carrillo's case develop, I was shocked that change.org was circulating a petition against him. If their other petitions contain a similar mix of scanty facts and hostile fantasy, I will steer clear of them.

I've been learning some hard lessons in applying critical thinking even to those perceived as allies.

Blessings for a kinder and more discerning New Year.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

I think it's important to note that change.org is just a vehicle for organizations to use for signature gathering, nothing more. It's a good way to have your voice heard on issues that are important to you, and of course, not all issues are! Thank you, sandoak.

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I received the petition from a private individual - Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I don't ever remember change.org ever circulating one on their own. Anyway - in the interest of clarity and aside from us having a difference of opinion, I don't see any "scanty facts" or "hostile fantasy" here. This is taken directly from the "petition" on the website:

We, the undersigned, seek to restore respect and dignity to the Board of Supervisors and the 5th Supervisorial District of Sonoma County. It is imperative that Supervisor Efren Carrillo, having been arrested twice in less than a year, resign from office immediately.

His most recent arrest demonstrates that Mr. Carrillo cannot avoid legal trouble. We therefore ask that he no longer represent the 5th District as a member of the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors. We strongly believe he is incapable of governing and should instead focus on resolving his personal issues.

For the future of Sonoma County and the office he currently holds, we ask that he do the honorable thing at this time and resign from public office.

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Posted in reply to the post by sandoak:

Having watched Efren Carrillo's case develop, I was shocked that change.org was circulating a petition against him. If their other petitions contain a similar mix of scanty facts and hostile fantasy, I will steer clear of them.

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wrote privately to sandy, cause we've known each other for quite awhile, then thought, hey, public is ok…so copying here, with some lines added:

hi sandy.
was hoping to have some in-person words the other evening, regarding all this.
i'm interested in your 'support' of efren and his case, the reasons for your stance, when all around us are egregious cases of blatant INjustice.
of course, you're aware of the corruption of courts and other governmental departments when dealing with those with power and money, noting that those who've literally crashed the economy have earned billions (BOTH PRIVATE AND PUBLIC FUNDS /OUR MONEY) for their deeds, AND NOT ONE IS IN PRISON FOR ONE DAY, for example...
so we'd agree that 'justice' is not actual FOR POLITICOS, yes?
and this case is clear: justice has not/will not be done.
or do you believe that it will…?
really?

AND please know that it is not about lack of compassion (mine and others') for efren (i almost wept when speaking to him in the supervisors' chambers); i have compassion for bush W. and cheney and rice and the rest of those who've sent millions into suffering and/or death. one can have compassion AND STILL WANT THEM IN POSITIONS WHERE THEY CANNOT DO FURTHER HARM TO PEOPLE OR ANYTHING ELSE. AND BROUGHT TO JUSTICE. *REAL JUSTICE*.
we (those pf us who are politically active) have done what we could regarding bush, cheney, etc. to NO avail (though they cannot visit numerous other countries or they'd be arrested as WAR CRIMINALS).
apparently the same lack of effect regarding carillo.

hey, sandy - want to bet on the outcome of efren's case?
want to bet on the outcome of the case of anyone else caught in their underwear at 3am, ripping someone's bedroom window screen?
if yes, you're on.

i, too, have much else which preoccupies me -personally, professionally, politically - and no doubt, this case will be closed with wrist slap and continuation as supervisor till end of efren's term.

so onwards. lots of other work to do.

may 2014 bring higher integrity for all, greater health in all realms, compassion, love, enlightenment, blessings of all sorts.
jude

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:
Efren was inside the woman's apartment. In fact, he and she had just spent the evening together. As he's getting dressed, he catches her with his cellphone. Perhaps in fun, or perhaps a "tiff" ensued, but she tosses it out her front door into the hallway - "if you want your phone, there it is!" He makes a dash for his phone and she closes the door behind him. Then the conundrum. Realizing the gravity of the situation - there is now a half naked, inebriated man who just happens to be Supervisor Carillo - out in the hallway. Surely the neighbors are peering through their peepholes by now! She panics - she can't open the door to let him in or throw him his clothes because their prying eyes would seal her fate as she joins the ranks of the Monicas, Fawns, etc... He makes his way outside to her bedroom window, hoping to be able to get back in. She panics - somebody has surely seen him by now. She's all about saving face at this point. She tells him through the blinds to leave and go home. He can't - he's half dressed, inebriated. The problem needs to go away. Panic. She calls 911. What's taking them so long! He makes his way to her front door again. Surely the neighbors have been watching! Panic. She calls 911 a second time. He stumbles out of the building...

Not only that, but I'm not even convinced that Efren has a drinking "problem". Sure, HE says he does, but maybe he had been drinking when he decided that. We've all made bad decisions when we were inebriated, and Efren's harsh self-judgement and, let's be honest, amateur diagnosis based on what a few "friends" said to him, is suspect. Sorry, "debatable".

Coupled with Victoria's completely plausable scenario of the events of that evening, it is fairly obvious that Efren is the victim of an orchestrated conspiracy to defame him, ignoring his many years of nearly perfect behaviour as a representative of Sonoma County. And none of us are perfect, so who are we to judge?

Someone should organize a rally, or something.

:Yinyangv::cocktail::toast:

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:
Efren was inside the woman's apartment. In fact, he and she had just spent the evening together. As he's getting dressed, he catches her with his cellphone. Perhaps in fun, or perhaps a "tiff" ensued, but she tosses it out her front door into the hallway - "if you want your phone, there it is!" He makes a dash for his phone and she closes the door behind him. T
...

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Your post highlights an aspect of our Judicial system that while justice is supposed to be blind, that everyone is treated equally under the law, not all can afford the talent which would come up with such a plausible defense, which is why a court of law should decide this issue.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:...

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Endless scenarios such as this and others that have been offered on this Board are the product of overactive imaginations, half truths and exaggerations. We don't know what happened because we were not there.
What is important is the investigation and the facts derived from it.
If the prosecutor feels that there is enough proof to convict someone of a crime, then charges are filed. That is how our system works.
I'm sure we ALL would want to be considered innocent until PROVEN guilty as well as to be protected from those who would do us harm. It may not be a perfect system, but it's what we've got.
:yinyang:
Happy New Year Everyone.
Tom

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:...

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I totally agree with Tom's important first sentence below about "overactive imaginations, half truths, and exaggerations." I wish people would re-direct their energies to other issues at this point, such as the killing of 13-year-old Andy Lopez by sheriff's deputy Erick Gelhaus. Efren will not resign and a recall effort would be futile, in my opinion. He would win, so why "keep beating a dead horse." He would be vulnerable in the next election cycle, if he decides to run. By then the courts should have a judgment.

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

Endless scenarios such as this and others that have been offered on this Board are the product of overactive imaginations, half truths and exaggerations. We don't know what happened because we were not there.

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Well, thank the lord. I stopped reading WACCO for several months because of the plethora of plain uninformed conspiracy theories about Carillo's treatment. We don't know what happened. Saying that he is being favored because his hearing has been postponed several times, it's set for a Friday, it's set for a Friday before a holiday, and on and on is plain imagined favoritism. My trial has still not taken place since my March arrest and Ravitch is sure not favoring me. My hearings have been cancelled, postponed, reset to Fridays -the same thing- so you can interpret anything according to your biases.

Why not give it a rest and, yes, focus on Andy's grieving family and supporting them and letting Ravitch know we are not going to stand for her version of "protecting the community." (by the way, Ravitch has been tormenting our family, adding yet another charge on me in Oct and threatening jail time- if any one feels moved to drop a word in my favor, I'd appreciate it.My hundreth hearing is on Jan 10th). Blessings to the Lopez family. The pain goes on and on.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd:

I totally agree with Tom's important first sentence below about "overactive imaginations, half truths, and exaggerations." I wish people would re-direct their energies to other issues at this point, such as the killing of 13-year-old Andy Lopez by sheriff's deputy Erick Gelhaus. Efren will not resign and a recall effort would be futile, in my opinion. He would win, so why "keep beating a dead horse." He would be vulnerable in the next election cycle, if he decides to run. By then the courts should have a judgment.

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In the interest of seeking the truth, I realized that with all of the posts on this thread, there really weren't any that, in my opinion, effectively held water. I searched for the "endless scenarios" several posters referred to. There are opinions galore (held in a death grip I might add!) from both "sides", but based on what, really? Why, even I called him a slimeball several posts back - twice! But based on what?

So I decided to do an about face and with my "over active imagination", come up with a scenario that would support the view in opposition to mine - his innocence. To my surprise, and quite unexpectedly, a scenario developed that, I believe, is quite plausible. I commend all of the astute posters who brought to my attention the observation that "we don't know what happened because we weren't there" (brilliant!). Or, those who feel that this thread is a waste of time, and "wish people would direct there energy to other issues" while ironically enough, not only following this thread themselves - but posting on it! You guys are hilarious! (Tip: there's an orange button at the bottom of the email updates that says "Stop Email Updates". Click on that...)

In the end, I honestly don't know where I stand with the Efren Carrillo case. I do, however, appreciate thoughtful dialogue with thinking people.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:

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Well, as Gomer Pyle would say "Surprise, surprise." I checked my court docket after posting the Efren comments, and the DA had added a surprise hearing for me on this Friday. Neither I nor my attorney were notified. This , in addition to the one on the 10th. Does that make me the favored one or the hunted? Or just the poor schlepp caught like a fly in this lousy legal web?

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

Well, thank the lord. I stopped reading WACCO for several months because of the plethora of plain uninformed conspiracy theories about Carillo's treatment. We don't know what happened. Saying that he is being favored because his hearing has been postponed several times, it's set for a Friday, it's set for a Friday before a holiday, and on and on is plain imagined favoritism. ...

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Victoria,

Thank you for presenting another perspective on what actually might have happened, and is very believable.

If anyone in our community has been at the end of finger pointing circumstantial evidence, they might understand.

Things are not always what they appear to be.....Andy Lopez proved that.

Let those who have never broken any law, or endangered others with their behavior, step up and show themselves.

As Jesus said "Let those cast the first stone."

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:
...

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Let those who have never broken any law, or endangered others with their behavior, step up and show themselves.

As Jesus said "Let those cast the first stone."

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all right, let's not stone him. But no way he's off the hook just because I've been bad too. Or am I now free to run amok 'cuz of his bad behavior???

ravitch has a rep among those who work in the system as a scattered manager. my own experience is that sentencing is taking longer. thats why she has competition for re-election. you seem like one of the targeted ones because of challenging the process. stay strong and you will win, just like your son.

our criminal justice system, originating from feudal justice where knights (lawyers), jousted for the pleasure of kings (judges), has only slightly evolved. steadfast fortitude and chivalry, with a pure heart and keen eye for weakness in the opponent, means a great deal on the legal battlefield.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

Well, as Gomer Pyle would say "Surprise, surprise." I checked my court docket after posting the Efren comments, and the DA had added a surprise hearing for me on this Friday. Neither I nor my attorney were notified. This , in addition to the one on the 10th. Does that make me the favored one or the hunted? Or just the poor schlepp caught like a fly in this lousy legal web?

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lots have speculated as you, a lovers spat. efren had an explaination the nite in question, while he has not shared it with the public, the police did not believe him. they chose to trust the woman, after several hours of investigation by the sexual assault team. if i, as a male bodied person, speculated as you do, i would not call myself a feminist, as i do. appreciate your gender privilege.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

In the interest of seeking the truth, I realized that with all of the posts on this thread, there really weren't any that, in my opinion, effectively held water. I searched for the "endless scenarios" several posters referred to. There are opinions galore (held in a death grip I might add!) from both "sides", but based on what, really? Why, even I called him a slimeball several posts back - twice! But based on what?

So I decided to do an about face and with my "over active imagination", come up with a scenario that would support the view in opposition to mine - his innocence. To my surprise, and quite unexpectedly, a scenario developed that, I believe, is quite plausible. I commend all of the astute posters who brought to my attention the observation that "we don't know what happened because we weren't there" (brilliant!). Or, those who feel that this thread is a waste of time, and "wish people would direct there energy to other issues" while ironically enough, not only following this thread themselves - but posting on it! You guys are hilarious! (Tip: there's an orange button at the bottom of the email updates that says "Stop Email Updates". Click on that...)

In the end, I honestly don't know where I stand with the Efren Carrillo case. I do, however, appreciate thoughtful dialogue with thinking people.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

lots have speculated as you, a lovers spat. efren had an explaination the nite in question, while he has not shared it with the public, the police did not believe him. they chose to trust the woman, after several hours of investigation by the sexual assault team. if i, as a male bodied person, speculated as you do, i would not call myself a feminist, as i do. appreciate your gender privilege.

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In all honesty, this was more of an exercise in personal integrity on my part, as I was kind of demoralized by all the "sand kicking" on this board, and felt myself being pulled in that direction as well. I was home with the flu - time on my hands! I'm not clear on what you were trying to say in that last part regarding being a feminist - you? Or me? For the record, I try hard not to identify as an "ist" or with an "ism" - but whatever you meant, I feel it was well intentioned. Thank you rossmen!

Thank you, Victoria. That was an admirable and courageous thing to do.

I had thought of this scenario myself, but hesitated to write about it. What brought me there was trying to imagine someone leaving his own apartment in his underwear carrying a cell phone, and walking a couple of blocks like that. Under what circumstances would someone do such a thing? I could imagine someone going to someone's house and undressing outside, though even this was a stretch, and his clothes would have been found. But leaving his home in his underwear? Maybe there are drugs that might make you liable to do something that is such a violation of a societal taboo, but he is not reported to have appeared intoxicated. So I started wondering where else his clothes might be, and the likeliest place seemed to be inside the woman's apartment. I also wondered how he knew which was her bedroom window without having been inside.

Not saying it is so, but if you lay aside all prejudice and just look at the circumstances and do not give one side more credibility than the other, I have to say that it is in my book more believable than the other.

Patrick Brinton

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Efren Carrillo is Innocent.
And this is why:
Efren was inside the woman's apartment. In fact, he and she had just spent the evening together. As he's getting dressed, he catches her with his cellphone. Perhaps in fun, or perhaps a "tiff" ensued, but she tosses it out her front door into the hallway - "if you want your phone, there it is!" He makes a dash for his phone and she closes the door behind him. Then the conundrum. Realizing the gravity of the situation - there is now a half naked, inebriated man who just happens to be Supervisor Carillo - out in the hallway. Surely the neighbors are peering through their peepholes by now! She panics - she can't open the door to let him in or throw him his clothes because their prying eyes would seal her fate as she joins the ranks of the Monicas, Fawns, etc... He makes his way outside to her bedroom window, hoping to be able to get back in. She panics - somebody has surely seen him by now. She's all about saving face at this point. She tells him through the blinds to leave and go home. He can't - he's half dressed, inebriated. The problem needs to go away. Panic. She calls 911. What's taking them so long! He makes his way to her front door again. Surely the neighbors have been watching! Panic. She calls 911 a second time. He stumbles out of the building...

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Thank you for your thoughtful response, Patrick! But who knows? Perhaps it was the Butler... In the lLibrary... With a Candlestick! ( Now I'm dating myself...) It was my understanding that he was indeed intoxicated when the paddy wagon showed up. Probably just my over active imagination again...

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Posted in reply to the post by pbrinton:

Thank you, Victoria. That was an admirable and courageous thing to do.

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it wasn't a couple of blocks, it was less than 100 feet, the same apartment complex. just paying attention to the reported details, why don't you? don't really want to think?

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Posted in reply to the post by pbrinton:

I had thought of this scenario myself, but hesitated to write about it. What brought me there was trying to imagine someone leaving his own apartment in his underwear carrying a cell phone, and walking a couple of blocks like that. ...

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yes the police say he had been drinking and was not highly intoxicated, they did not test. the calls were just before 4am, the arrest after 10am, bailed out by 12. the cops took their time and followed all procedures with appropriate backup, probably because it was a smoken hot potato. you can spin, or sit with the superviser with his pants down, your choice...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Patrick! But who knows? Perhaps it was the Butler... In the lLibrary... With a Candlestick! ( Now I'm dating myself...) It was my understanding that he was indeed intoxicated when the paddy wagon showed up. Probably just my over active imagination again...

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Wait! That's it! rossmen, I think you're on to something - Efren Carillo has an EVIL TWIN. It's all coming together for me now...

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

it wasn't a couple of blocks, it was less than 100 feet, the same apartment complex. just paying attention to the reported details, why don't you? don't really want to think?

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perhaps you are on to something here, his behavior could be related to a bit of bi-polar tendency. i can totally relate, though i have avoided legal trouble, my emotional swings are full spectrum : )>

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

Wait! That's it! rossmen, I think you're on to something - Efren Carillo has an EVIL TWIN. It's all coming together for me now...

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Actually, we are all "free" to run amok as we choose. It becomes a problem for us when we face the consequences of getting caught (in the act) or with circumstantial evidence. If we're financially powerful, our chances are pretty good that we can get "off the hook" even if we commit murder. Some Examples: OJ Simpson, Zimmerman, Gelhaus, etc.

I wasn't indicating that anyone who's proven guilty of a crime should get off because others of us have committed crimes and not been caught; however it was just a way for us to consider that none of us is immune from criminal behavior. It's much easier to point the finger at others than to acknowledge our own behavior. Blame and excuses have become a way of life.

The other thing to consider is that it's not too far fetched to realize that those of us who are financially unable to defend ourselves even when we're innocent, do end up in prison, sometimes for a lifetime. Those who are able will do everything they can to stay free to "run amok". Wouldn't you?

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

all right, let's not stone him. But no way he's off the hook just because I've been bad too. Or am I now free to run amok 'cuz of his bad behavior???

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

all right, let's not stone him. But no way he's off the hook just because I've been bad too. Or am I now free to run amok 'cuz of his bad behavior???

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"The people" are a mob that you agree with.

I am puzzled by those who would dismiss opinions about Mr. Carillo's behaviors, yet quickly pre-judge the cop who allegedly killed Andy Lopez. And before you even start assuming I am making light of this poor child's murder, I am not, nor am I assuming the cop is innocent. But, are we to also wait until the cop's trial before we form an opinion or, worse, express it? Doesn't "the community" have a right to voice its disapproval of the stated infraction and the behavior of individuals and institutions as they seek justice?

My unfavorable opinion of Mr. Carillo is based on his actions after his arrest, as much as his alleged offenses. The couched legal-speak, the secrecy, the apology-without-action lead me to think that he is assuming that he is not "technically" guilty. And of course, I have no idea what Mr. Carillo is thinking or assuming, but since he is undoubtedly "acting on the advice of his attorney" rather than in what my opinion is a honorable way, I am thinking the worst.

If it comes out that the whole thing was just a horrible misunderstanding, and that the victim/spurned lover is okay with that interpretation, I will happily retract my opinion and admit that I was wrong. In public, and out loud.

:lotsopeople::peaceman:

Maybe we shouldn't "pre-judge" the fact that the cop fired 7 bullets into Andy Lopez. However, this is not "circumstantial evidence" as in Carillo's case. These bullets are actual facts that show extreme reaction on the cop's part.

And unfortunately, people will always have opinions, and be inclined to express them. That's the beauty of free speech. And having one opinion usually pre-cludes having an opposite opinion, until later when those opinions might change, based on alleged facts.

And as for acting on the advice of an attorney, rather than being "honorable"; I don't see how using an attorney means that a person isn't "honorable". I bet many Wacco members have used an attorney when necessary.

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Posted in reply to the post by Ted Pole:

"The people" are a mob that you agree with.

I am puzzled by those who would dismiss opinions about Mr. Carillo's behaviors, yet ...

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Assuming, of course that he did, in fact, "fire those bullets". And based on whose account(s)? And can they be trusted? And can there be a reasonable doubt that he was, in fact in fear of his life before he "fired those bullets"? Who are you to judge what is "extreme"? Were you there? I didn't think so. Ah, but we should all wait until the trial happens before we form an opinion, yes?

What you call "unfortunate", I call natural, and a welcome proof of human cognition. That you may not agree with it does not negate its value.

There is nothing dishonorable in using an attorney to defend oneself in legal proceedings, but giving the appearance of filtering every public utterance and action for optimum ass-covering brings more suspicion and loss of credibility, not less.

:crossfingers::Yinyangv:

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Maybe we shouldn't "pre-judge" the fact that the cop fired 7 bullets into Andy Lopez. However, ...

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Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Ted Pole:

"The people" are a mob that you agree with.

I am puzzled by those who would dismiss opinions about Mr. Carillo's behaviors, yet quickly pre-judge the cop who allegedly killed Andy Lopez. And before you even start assuming I am making light of this poor child's murder, I am not, nor am I assuming the cop is innocent. But, are we to also wait until the cop's trial before we form an opinion or, worse, express it? Doesn't "the community" have a right to voice its disapproval of the stated infraction and the behavior of individuals and institutions as they seek justice?

My unfavorable opinion of Mr. Carillo is based on his actions after his arrest, as much as his alleged offenses. The couched legal-speak, the secrecy, the apology-without-action lead me to think that he is assuming that he is not "technically" guilty. And of course, I have no idea what Mr. Carillo is thinking or assuming, but since he is undoubtedly "acting on the advice of his attorney" rather than in what my opinion is a honorable way, I am thinking the worst.

If it comes out that the whole thing was just a horrible misunderstanding, and that the victim/spurned lover is okay with that interpretation, I will happily retract my opinion and admit that I was wrong. In public, and out loud.

:lotsopeople::peaceman:

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First, let's keep these issues separated. There are threads for both and the scenarios do not match up.

With regards to Mr. Carrillo and this is just one example. Some time ago, Effren made a public apology for his obvious impropriety and potentially illegal acts. When it came time to face up to that same impropriety, in court, he pleaded NOT GUILTY. If he states that he's not guilty, then what was he apologizing for? Effren is an excellent "spin doctor" with highly qualified coaches. I will not consider retracting my opinion of his guilt, until after a functional adjudication is reached, to my satisfaction.