Verdict: Carrillo Not Guilty

Yea, and then there was that HUGE demonstration... of only 40 people, some of whom were probably not even from his district.

If the average person in his district really wanted him to resign, there would have been Thousands at that demonstration.

I know that there are those who really really really want him to resign, but they must be a very small minority.

Since he was not convicted of any crime, there is nothing the other Supervisors can do anyway. They need to get busy and do their Jobs. They have wasted enough time, He's not leaving.

Tom

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

At the Supes' meeting, people wanting him to resign outnumbered his supporters 2 to 1. Not sure where you got the idea of "so many people asking him not to resign?" Also, the other Supes got a great deal of input from people wanting him out before that meeting.

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

Yea, and then there was that HUGE demonstration...

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The Supes have wasted hardly any of their time on Carrillo -- except for their public display of righteous wrath, followed by their hypocritical decision not to censure him formally. Perhaps you're thinking of his arrest and trial, as a result of his own bizarre behavior.

An independent poll of registered voters in the 5th District might be the best way to determine his constituents' opinions re resignation -- and much cheaper than a recall election.

Meanwhile, many who have commented on the PD stories expect him to act out again; and his hubris ultimately to bring him down.

You don't think that relatively small turnout for the demo might have had something to do with the temperature in the 90s, the hour (people coming home from work, having dinner) and the fact that many people had already voiced their desire for him to resign and didn't feel motivated to attend?

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

Yea, and then there was that HUGE demonstration...

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i haven't followed this thread but just stopped here to comment...

carillo's behaviour as a [human and] public figure was reprehensible...and he should resign on that alone...of course, not to mention that his city council colleagues are embarrassed and want him gone too...

thanks so much for the clarification of the legalese of our sonoma county judicial system...an often righteously flawed system, where the difference between what's right and what is wrong depends on the savvy, pit bull-dogged-ness and the abject cruelty of the slimebag attorney defending the slimebag defendant--as is the case of efren's very own star attorney, whose pride lies in getting rapists (korbel 2006), violent and sexual predators and wine brats (all, whose mummys and daddys have this guys's number on speedial) off for their various crimes...and if you are guilty as hell and/or need the best that money can buy in order to avoid jailtime or worse, this guy's record is stellar. if you can afford his services, he is your man...the guy who will publicly go the extra mile to humiliate, repeatedly violate and publicly destroy the victims that are attempting to get justice for the crimes committed against them.

this entire efren fiasco sickens me...i am tired of Sonoma County Justice depending on the local politics of this little world of this county that we live in...where justice depends on who can pay to top dollar to get off and who the Untouchables around us are....aside from that, i have no opinion, barry....

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

The term is: Beyond a reasonable doubt. From The Free Dictionary: Reasonable Doubt....

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I just want to interject something about defense attorneys. A few times recently in the national news there has been a backlash against lawyers who defend those we deem to be undesireables. While there are some pretty awful people out there who are lawyers, defending someone who is charged with a crime is a good thing. Like it or not its a positive feature of our system of justice that people who are charged with crimes are supposed to be able to get good representation, so they aren't standing in front of a judge and jury alone. While it might be nice to bash those who defend, it hurts our justice system, such as it is, in many ways. We NEED people who can defend. As painting those who defend as being as bad or worse than those they defend is really not appropriate. We need lawyers who will defend those changed with crimes. Especially if you happen to be one of those who are charged with a crime you didn't do. Too often public defenders have very little funding. Just my two cents...:2cents: Jessica

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Posted in reply to the post by lindasw:

thanks so much for the clarification of the legalese of our sonoma county judicial system...

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Where can we go to avoid all this? Anyone have suggestions about where honest politicians rule? It seeems to filter down from the top government officials, who get away with very serious criminal offenses, on a regular basis.

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Posted in reply to the post by lindasw:

i haven't followed this thread but just stopped here to comment...

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Where can we go to avoid all this? Anyone have suggestions about where honest politicians rule? It seeems to filter down from the top government officials, who get away with very serious criminal offenses, on a regular basis.

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There are a lot of honest politicians - it's the dishonest ones who get the attention, as well it should be. At that point, it is up to us to rattle the cage - call them on their sh*t and do whatever it takes to get them the hell out. Corruption - of any sort - not only breeds corruption within a system, but breeds complacency among the constituency. The corruption becomes the norm in the eyes of the people. Bribes and back door dirty deals are expected. Sexual harassment is part of the game. Breaking into a woman's apartment in your socks and underwear at 3 am becomes a boyish folly...

Al Franken is the first one who comes to mind............

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Where can we go to avoid all this? Anyone have suggestions about where honest politicians rule? It seeems to filter down from the top government officials, who get away with very serious criminal offenses, on a regular basis.

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How about Elizabeth Warren?

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

Al Franken is the first one who comes to mind............

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In the past: JFK, FDR; it seems that the most honest pols were those who already had their own money, so they didn't need to hustle for more.....

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

How about Elizabeth Warren?

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Make our elected officials accountable, as a culture our citizens are more involved with sports or a hand held electric gadgets, while they remain blind to the corruption of our local officials.

Until we the people get involved and demand accountability, we will not be the priority of our elected officials.

The reality is, Carrillo is being protected by big money. Peeking, that's all the prosecution could charge Efren with ,what a sham! How about breaking and entering ,or sexual prowling. Cutting a screen window, rattling blinds, this is only peeping? This woman had a right to feel safe in her home. Just like you or I have the right to feel safe in our homes. Carrillo is sick and in denial, he needs to step down and get some help, but he won't, his ego won't let him.

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Posted in reply to the post by Victoria Street:

There are a lot of honest politicians - it's the dishonest ones who get the attention...

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

How about Elizabeth Warren?

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Bernie Sanders, Barbara Lee and our own Lynn Woolsey...

And Dennis Kucinich, who was so threatening to the status quo that he wasn't even allowed to participate in the debates.

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Posted in reply to the post by american dream:

Bernie Sanders, Barbara Lee and our own Lynn Woolsey...

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You are quite right, Jessica. In order for our system to work, we do need good defense attorneys. The problem is that the system has been so corrupted by money that the wealthy get the good defense attorneys and people without resources or connections end up with public defenders, many of whom are overworked and understaffed and/or just not very good attorneys.

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Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:

I just want to interject something about defense attorneys...

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Sorry if this is a bit tangential, but in this connection I want to recommend a really good documentary on public defenders called Gideon's Army. :video:

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Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:

I just want to interject something about defense attorneys...

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I believe this to be the least politically corrupt place I've ever lived.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Where can we go to avoid all this? Anyone have suggestions about where honest politicians rule? It seeems to filter down from the top government officials, who get away with very serious criminal offenses, on a regular basis.

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People should spend more time looking at Carrillo's record to determine his capabilities, than harping on a minor incident. Do people break into houses, for whatever purpose, carrying two bottles of beer with them, if their intentions are evil?
Obviously, his drinking is a problem, and he should resign if he continues to have issues with drinking. Many people have recovered from alcoholism. I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this man.

Robert

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Posted in reply to the post by robert777:

People should spend more time looking at Carrillo's record to determine his capabilities, than harping on a minor incident. Do people break into houses, for whatever purpose, carrying two bottles of beer with them, if their intentions are evil?
Obviously, his drinking is a problem, and he should resign if he continues to have issues with drinking. Many people have recovered from alcoholism. I'm taking a wait and see attitude on this man.

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That's two incidents, in one year, Robert; and the latest was hardly minor.

The fact is, few people close a bar at 2am, go home, get undressed, and then go calling on a neighbor. A public official caught doing that should apologize, and resign.

This line is a classic: "Do people break into houses, for whatever purpose, carrying two bottles of beer with them, if their intentions are evil?" Uh, yes?

Carrillo didn't, in fact, break into the victim's apartment. But I think it's fair to say that people who break into houses do have evil intentions, whether they carry beer or not.

I, and others who want him to resign, also are waiting to see what else Carrillo is capable of.

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I believe this to be the least politically corrupt place I've ever lived.

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Where do you live? Where have you lived?

San Francisco, various Eastern cities.
I live here now.

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Posted in reply to the post by Geoff Johnson:

Where do you live? Where have you lived?

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There is no evidence that Carrillo's behavior affected his work. The focus should not be on the personal lives of politicians or political candidates. I do think an apology is/was in order, but, please correct me if I'm wrong, he hasn't been convicted of a crime, which would make the situation very different.

Supervisors Gorin and Zane both said they have had to call him on his disrespectful treatment of women.

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Posted in reply to the post by robert777:

There is no evidence that Carrillo's behavior affected his work. The focus should not be on the personal lives of politicians or political candidates. I do think an apology is/was in order, but, please correct me if I'm wrong, he hasn't been convicted of a crime, which would make the situation very different.

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

San Francisco, various Eastern cities.
I live here now.

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Thanks. That's the difference between almost any major city, and a semi-rural suburban area like Sonoma County.

If you live in Sebastopol now, or most of the west county, you've noticed a real difference. In Santa Rosa, not so much.

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Posted in reply to the post by robert777:

There is no evidence that Carrillo's behavior affected his work.

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Whether his behavior affected his work was not an issue in the criminal case. It was not investigated, so no evidence was collected.

However, the other four Supes confronted him in open meeting, and asked him to resign.

Also, I do believe that politicians' private lives to some extent should be taken into account, unlike artists, say. One of the big problems in politics today, IMO, is the lack of integrity of many politicians. For example, if they can cut food stamps for poor people while benefitting personally from corporate welfare or tax loopholes or PAC/lobbyist goodies, then there is a real disconnect in play.

I am assuming you're thinking of people like Clinton, JFK, FDR, etc. and their "peckerdillos." Their sexual escapades were consensual. That was not the case with Carrillo (and we only know of one event--there may have been others where he imposed on women without their consent).

How about Rob Ford, the Toronto mayor, whose admitted and displayed addictions had to have affected his job performance? He at least had the decency to take a leave of absence after much public hue and cry.

Not so Carrillo. He hid in rehab for 5 weeks as soon as he was bailed out, but I think that was as much to hide as to get a grip on his problem. And as beneficial as recovery programs can be, they don't address deeper lying issues, like a basic contempt for women. That is definitely something I want to know about a public figure because I do not want him/her making decisions that will afftect my life, either directly or indirectly.

Privacy is a luxury when one is a public figure. The payoffs are obvious.

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Posted in reply to the post by robert777:

There is no evidence that Carrillo's behavior affected his work. The focus should not be on the personal lives of politicians or political candidates. I do think an apology is/was in order, but, please correct me if I'm wrong, he hasn't been convicted of a crime, which would make the situation very different.

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That slimebag Chris Andrian donated his services pro bono to defend , as you would have it, my slimebag of a young son when he was facing life in prison for having a mental illness. I can't believe how self righteous and holier than thou so many of us "progressives" can be. So judgemental as if we had never made a mistake - I'm sure all of us can be viewed as "reprehensible" by someone who hasn't walked in our shoes.

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Posted in reply to the post by lindasw:

i haven't followed this thread but just stopped here to comment...

carillo's behaviour as a [human and] public figure was reprehensible...and he should resign on that alone...of course, not to mention that his city council colleagues are embarrassed and want him gone too...

thanks so much for the clarification of the legalese of our sonoma county judicial system...an often righteously flawed system, where the difference between what's right and what is wrong depends on the savvy, pit bull-dogged-ness and the abject cruelty of the slimebag attorney defending the slimebag defendant--as is the case of efren's very own star attorney, whose pride lies in getting rapists (korbel 2006), violent and sexual predators and wine brats (all, whose mummys and daddys have this guys's number on speedial) off for their various crimes...and if you are guilty as hell and/or need the best that money can buy in order to avoid jailtime or worse, this guy's record is stellar. if you can afford his services, he is your man...the guy who will publicly go the extra mile to humiliate, repeatedly violate and publicly destroy the victims that are attempting to get justice for the crimes committed against them.

this entire efren fiasco sickens me...i am tired of Sonoma County Justice depending on the local politics of this little world of this county that we live in...where justice depends on who can pay to top dollar to get off and who the Untouchables around us are....aside from that, i have no opinion, barry....

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yeah..your defense attorney is a real prince...

but i thought we already had this conversation, marilyn...


when my daughter was sexually assaulted at the champagne king's castle on river road in 2006, this generous slimebag attorney of yours did everything in his power to discredit, re-damage, re-assault and repeat a viscous attack with his shark-like tactics on the girls who had been assaulted. oh and he was paid so well for his services to publicly humiliate both of the victims in the press and media, portraying them both as "gold diggers", re-writing the truth as "a night of wild and consensual sex"-- while my kid sat in her 2nd story apartment with a broken leg sustained in running from the scene of the assault, terrorized, humiliated and threatened by the predator who attacked her.

the champagne princess and her prince--and her daddy---retained the best there is to get the worst there is, off the hook for their crimes, just as efren did...


walk in your shoes? i knew your son and know your story...there was no mental health defense to fall back on with efren or the case of the attacker of my daughter....everyone gets to have their own experiences and mine was watching the guilty skate off due to your misogynist attorney's brilliance at getting paid to keep the rich and guilty out of court and out of jail...self-righteousness can be dangerous, my friend, when there are other factors and other cases to consider...your child or my child...we get to each have our feelings about andrian's "work"...

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

That slimebag Chris Andrian donated his services pro bono to defend , as you would have it, my slimebag of a young son when he was facing life in prison for having a mental illness. I can't believe how self righteous and holier than thou so many of us "progressives" can be. So judgemental as if we had never made a mistake - I'm sure all of us can be viewed as "reprehensible" by someone who hasn't walked in our shoes.

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Linda, I didn't know it was you because the tone of yr comment is so unlike you. This woman is one of the most wonderful, generous, tolerant, loving women I know.

I still feel the same way that I expressed in my post but I see we were both coming from remembered hurts. I immediately thought of all the people who have told me my son should have fried, I am crazy too, Mark never loved me and I raised a murderer. Chris helped defend us. I see he did the opposite for you so I guess my point is everyone has their own story and their own pain and we can't tar everyone with the same brush.

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Posted in reply to the post by lindasw:

yeah..your defense attorney is a real prince...

but i thought we already had this conversation, marilyn...

when my daughter was sexually assaulted at the champagne king's castle on river road in 2006, this generous slimebag attorney of yours did everything in his power to discredit, re-damage, re-assault and repeat a viscous attack with his shark-like tactics on the girls who had been assaulted. oh and he was paid so well for his services to publicly humiliate both of the victims in the press and media, portraying them both as "gold diggers", re-writing the truth as "a night of wild and consensual sex"-- while my kid sat in her 2nd story apartment with a broken leg sustained in running from the scene of the assault, terrorized, humiliated and threatened by the predator who attacked her.

the champagne princess and her prince--and her daddy---retained the best there is to get the worst there is, off the hook for their crimes, just as efren did...

walk in your shoes? i knew your son and know your story...there was no mental health defense to fall back on with efren or the case of the attacker of my daughter....everyone gets to have their own experiences and mine was watching the guilty skate off due to your misogynist attorney's brilliance at getting paid to keep the rich and guilty out of court and out of jail...self-righteousness can be dangerous, my friend, when there are other factors and other cases to consider...your child or my child...we get to each have our feelings about andrian's "work"...

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