5th District Supervisor Race 2016: Noreen Evans vs Lynda Hopkins

Thanks, Marion, for drawing our attention to the homemade signs. Their diversity is my favorite and says a lot about why we should support Noreen. With big bucks, one can pay for signs, but it takes many hands to make those beautiful hand-made signs.
Go Noreen!

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Posted in reply to the post by sohemi:

I drove all around Sebastopol yesterday. The preponderance of signs, in front of homes, were for Noreen, including homemade ones :hi5:

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the tell-tale sign, EXACTLY, where are Hopkins signs and where are Noreen's signs being displayed? who has a modest sign and who has a gaudy, Yuge sign!.... How hard is it to really figure this out.

In the past week, I've heard that someone has made a negative statement about Noreen Evans' work in the state legislature. In fact, Noreen kept a daily record of everything she was doing, in the form of a blog. To judge for yourself, go to https://californiabudget.blogspot.com/.

Ok, i did. Your description is bs. Mine? A year and one half, a few a month, political propaganda. Was norreen an effective member as our local representative in the california assembly and senate? The mixed record brings up lots of questions. My biggest one, why did she leave the senate? Norreens answer does not recomend her for county supervisor.

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Posted in reply to the post by jenielson:

In the past week, I've heard that someone has made a negative statement about Noreen Evans' work in the state legislature. In fact, Noreen kept a daily record of everything she was doing, in the form of a blog. To judge for yourself, go to https://californiabudget.blogspot.com/.

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Its really interesting what this article reports about instream gravel mining from the most local watershed environmental group, Russian river keepers. The mid stretch of the rr is also choked with sediment, and while past practices (especially terrace mining), were destructive, instream mining now is potentially beneficial. To slash Hopkins for gravel industry support and pump up Evans as gravel slayer(she had little to do with modifying the industry), is environmentally ignorant. It's not going to get us anywhere, consciously confusing political propaganda.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...4_15-56-29.png
Sonoma County 5th District issues: housing, wine, pensions
See full article here

...Hopkins has faced heavy criticism lodged by Evans and her supporters about the campaign cash she has taken from development interests, including Napa- based Syar Industries, which for years has run a major gravel mining operation on upper Russian River near Geyserville. The company has no current proposal to expand.

“It’s a concern for anyone who cares about the river that these gravel miners want to come back,” said Ernie Carpenter, an Evans supporter and former county supervisor who represented west county for 16 years on the board. “It only takes a 3-2 vote and you can pretty much change anything.”

Hopkins said extracting gravel from the banks of the Russian River, however, could actually help restore it to a more natural state and help endangered fish species recover — an idea supported by some biologists and river advocates.

“Today, the river is stuck in a straitjacket,” said Don McEnhill, executive director of the nonprofit Russian Riverkeeper. “Most mining prior to today was done in a way that was very harmful for the river, but we are open to gravel mining if it can help the river spread out to bring down the natural floodplain.”

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

Amid the well reasoned posts by many Evans supporters there is a liberal sprinkling of hate speech by an energetic minority epitomized by Lisa's frequent outbursts. ...she attempts to wrap herself in the flag of minority victimization while in fact she dances on the edge of racism and sexism. ...

What I find most discouraging is that so many other Noreen supporters express "gratitude" to her posts, which further encourages her outrageous expressions.

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Not only do I find Lisa's comments appropriate but they are spot on! Do your homework and you will come to understand the underpinnings of how this County operates!
I find nothing offensive but what I do find offensive offensive is that when real lies, and misrepresentations are pointed out, then that is considered "offensive" EVA NAVARRO" pointed this fact out on the national debate! As once something is exposed then the opposition tries to deflect .
It's a serious distraction to even imply The term "outrageous expressions" it is a silly term and I can't be the only one who doesn't get what it even means!?
What exactly "outrageous expression" Noreen doing? ?

Lynda Hopkins may be an organic farmer with a fresh face and a couple of “Ivy League West” degrees, compared to Efren’s one. Like him, she represents the good old boy network. And it is her campaign that is the nasty one, blaming and haranguing and then acting like the victim. The harping on pension legislation reminds me of the persecution of Rue Furch over her property taxes, and it is not even worth the blame. The latest hit piece from Eric Koenigshoefer, a full page ad in today’s PD AND a mailer slamming Noreen Evans and her time on the Coastal Conservancy, is misleading and disingenuous and shows how desperate Ms. Hopkins’s supporters are to keep their power in Sonoma County. They want to hand an extremely important job to someone with no experience, like she was handed a several-million-dollar organic farm as a wedding present. If the subject comes up about the money pouring in to her campaign, it is either dismissed or called an attack. She is an elitist who may very well be “passionate” about western Sonoma County issues, but I for one am tired of hearing about her Stanford degrees and her organic farm. Let’s not be fooled—it’s becoming more and more painfully obvious that that essential swing vote, so urgent now for protecting our county and coast, is in grave danger of being bought by the 1%.
Kate Fenton

Thank you Kate for the thoughtful post.
Truthiness, a term coined by Stephen Colbert, is essentially that if something sounds or feels right, it must be true. Half truths and fabrication fit into this. And so it is that the Hopkins people have launched a truthiness hit piece against Noreen Evans. The claim is that she didn't attend many Coastal Conservancy meetings as a legislator , which is only true in a certain way. The seat is for observation only, it is not a voting seat, and so Noreen sent staff to meetings that were held up and down the state. She did that because she held important committee positions and felt that those were the most important job for her to do. Just saying she didn't attend meeting sounds like she didn't do her job which is exactly what this dishonest hatchet job wants voters to think. Expect more of these fabricated "truths" in the coming weeks.

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Posted in reply to the post by Kate Fenton:

Lynda Hopkins may be an organic farmer with a fresh face and a couple of “Ivy League West” degrees, ...

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is there a double gratitude button i can push.
Eric Koenigshofer really must be the bulldog-pitbull for Efren. As IF this whole superPac isn't a deliberate attack
on Noreen to discredit her work on the Coastal Conservancy...does He really think this is ethical! Damn he sounds(and even looks a little) like Trump. i haven't looked at his hands lately.
i'm disgusted where this is going in a desperate attempt to cut down Noreen because they have some $$$ to do so.
I mean-what the heck are the Hopkins folks even thinking-or are they?!! Either Lynda doesn't really Know what is going on with her campaign people's antics (and maybe, she really doesn't know how to play so dirty-i wanna give her some benefit of the doubt simply because she has NOT been a politician) or she is fully aware and wants to get down and dirty...that's not where i think she started from. Koenigshofer is a shark of the first degree and he knows full well what he is doing and i'm not surprised at how low he will go with Efren..they are both bottom feeders and i'm not going to hold back any longer-gonna let it rip.
Lynda's campaign could have gone another way-i think it got away from her too...i hope she is afraid, very afraid of what the folks who pushed and prompted her to run really want from her and her eyes are, finally, wide open! Because this is as easy as it gets for her if she is elected-she'll have a lot of payback after her reckless .campaign

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Posted in reply to the post by Kate Fenton:

Lynda Hopkins may be an organic farmer ...

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You guys whine about the Union leadership being portrayed as thugs, all the while behaving thuggishly.
You declare "Damn he sounds(and even looks a little) like Trump."

"I'm not going to hold back any longer-gonna let it rip."

“I’m taking the gloves off. no more Mr. Nice Guy."

Which of the above statements is Trump? Which is Beshiva?

What a bunch of hypocrites.

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

THE SECOND COMING


Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Almost over good people, less than three weeks...are we really changing many votes here?

Or are the PACS really changing anything?

Will 5th District voters buy the guilt by association campaign of Noreen and the Unions?

Will the voters change over a full page ad saying Noreen misrepresented herself and is lazy?

I don't think so...I think the voters are going to vote on who they sincerely believe will represent everyone the best. I will vote for Lynda Hopkins, and think my dear friends and band of brothers (and sisters :) on WaccoBB, even if they vote for Noreen and she loses (very likely :), will work toward reconciliation and moving forward together.

Meanwhile I will aspire to the good vibes and thoughts of Shepherd and Dan and Barry...

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

You guys whine about the Union leadership being portrayed as thugs, all the while behaving thuggishly.
You declare "Damn he sounds(and even looks a little) like Trump."

"I'm not going to hold back any longer-gonna let it rip."

“I’m taking the gloves off. no more Mr. Nice Guy."

Which of the above statements is Trump? Which is Beshiva?

What a bunch of hypocrites.

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Lol whose whining? Just telling it like I see it...same as you are doing...

Get real richard, your and Kate's posts are best described as hyperbolic, whatever that means... take me for example, i really am undecided, respect both candidates, looking for info here on wacco from people like you, and i know a lot too. Mostly i ask about noreen, cause she puts out less info, that doesn't mean I'm decided on lynda. Yet my questions go unanswered by noreen supporters.

So what does noreen think about instream gravel mining in the mid and lower reach of the russian river? And the plans for a Forestville roundabout? Is she willing to meet with constituents about specific issues of their choosing as individuals or a group? Is she willing to challenge county staff when citizens demonstrate deeper knowledge about action the county is taking? Lynda has answers to these questions, noreen takes a pass. You seem to have the inside scoop, dish it out : )

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Posted in reply to the post by Richard Nichols:

Thank you Kate for the thoughtful post.
Truthiness, ...

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

...
So what does noreen think about instream gravel mining in the mid and lower reach of the russian river? And the plans for a Forestville roundabout? Is she willing to meet with constituents about specific issues of their choosing as individuals or a group? Is she willing to challenge county staff when citizens demonstrate deeper knowledge about action the county is taking? Lynda has answers to these questions, noreen takes a pass. You seem to have the inside scoop, dish it out : )

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Ross have you asked Noreen these questions directly? Why do you say she takes a pass? Have you been to her web site? Her Facebook page? Please attend an upcoming meet and greet party and ask her yourself.

For the record, we're not talking about Noreen's vote for the massive retroactive pension increase at the County, but rather the city of Santa Rosa. With a 100% voting record to defend these pensions, Noreen has no plan to solve the problem...she doesn't even recognize this as a problem.

Note the e-mail from Ken Churchill below...in particular he notes, because of the increased pension that Noreen Evans voted for, the city of Santa Rosa is seeing annual increase of revenues of 3% and increases of pension costs of 24%.
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Hi Everyone:

I wanted distribute my latest report to you on the City of Santa Rosa’s pension situation, a lawsuit over whether 7507 is mandatory filed by David Brown, and the status of the recent First District Court of Appeals ruling.

The Santa Rosa report speaks for itself. The city and I think every city and county in the state that retroactively increased their benefit formulas (and that was just about all of them) are headed for big trouble. In Santa Rosa what we see is a 3% annual growth in tax revenues and a 24% annual growth in retiree benefit costs. I sent the report out to the city council and city manager yesterday and heard back from Julie Combs who seems concerned. She asked staff for to review the report.

If you own California Municipal bonds, I would suggest selling them.

As part of the research for my report I requested and received all of the documents in the City’s possession regarding the retroactive pension increase that occurred in 2002 in Santa Rosa and found that they too did not notify the public of the future annual cost. The cost was reported to them by CalPERS as the additional cost as a percentage of payroll, not the annual cost so there was no way for the City to comply. CalPERS also neglected to tell the City that there was a public notification requirement and even told the City Council that the increase would have little impact on their pension costs. I think it is safe now to assume that every city under CalPERS failed their public notification requirement.

Ken Churchill

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

God Barry where are you getting this thing that Noreen supported some action by the board of supervisors in 2003?? She wasn't on the board then and had nothing to do with it. I really can't believe you are buying into this rumor mongering.

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Well you're half right.
I'm telling it like it is,...you're telling it like it ain't. :wink:

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Posted in reply to the post by beshiva:

Lol whose whining? Just telling it like I see it...same as you are doing...

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

Well you're half right.
I'm telling it like it is,...you're telling it like it ain't. :wink:

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See.. you bear out my point..
:)

Just to set the record straight. Connie Codding is the widow of Hugh Codding, not his daughter. And, just because she was married to Mr. Codding, does not make her pro-developer or even necessarily a supporter of his views on anything. It seems that women can actually have thoughts, opinions and ideas of their own and, these days, can even act on them. Connie Codding certainly has. She is and has been one of Sonoma County's largest philanthropists. It is her passion to support and promote social justice and environmental preservation.

A few of the recipients of her generosity are the Pediatric Dental Institute for deprived youth, The Dream Center, which promotes cultural education and leadership programs for young people, Social Advocates for Youth and the Center for Climate Protection. She supports the Pepperwood Preserve, Farmster (a community farming project in Rohnert Park), and was on the Board of the Laguna Foundation, the Board of Advocates for Planned Parenthood, and Osha Lifelong Learning Institute at Sonoma State. Please Google her to find out all the other good causes she supports and donates to.

Another way she is trying to support our county's environmental causes is, apparently, to hold a fund-raiser at her home for Noreen Evans, the only candidate for the 5th District Supervisor to have a long and successful history of protecting the environment. This is what is important to me. Hopkins has 0 experience, Evans has a great record of accomplishments. Google her, too, btw. Don't just read smear campaign ads and mailers. Thanks.

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Posted in reply to the post by riverosprey:

Great new column in Sonoma West from Frank Robertson...

https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_we...350838df0.html

"...So it seemed a little curious that Evans was holding a campaign fundraiser the other day at the home of Connie Codding, widow of Hugh Codding, the big Santa Rosa developer. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

Ross have you asked Noreen these questions directly? ...

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Hi have forwarded Ross's post to Noreen's campaign and asked for a response. :waccosun:

Really? Yeats? I wonder if you think Yeats would consider this kind of spending by Big Business interests to purchase a seat on our Board of Supervisors part of the "ceremony of innocence" I have been to Yeats Tower at Sligo and I think NOT. Read the numbers pouring in from the big wineries and real estate and gravel mining PACS. That much money buys a LOT of political favors with your 'organic veggies' #followthemoney #greenwashing. See the thumbnail attached below the poetry for details. Money speaks. Loudly in the Hopkins Campaign.

I have made inquiries about the hit piece on Noreen Evans by speaking to Neal Fishman, a former Coastal Conservancy employee. He is well informed about the roles and duties are (and were). Neal gave me permission to use his name.

In short, Neal said that it's true that Noreen did not attend many Coastal Conservancy meetings—but that was because she was NOT a member of the Coastal Conservancy board of directors, and attending Board meetings was not her role.

You see, Noreen was a member of the Coastal Conservancy's Legislative Oversight Committee, consisting of State legislators, which has (and had) the function of examining reports about Coastal Conservancy operations, and particularly its financial management. The Legislative Oversight Committee was established so that that the organization could spend most of its allocations on Coastal Conservancy projects, instead of on paying staff to create the detailed line-item accounting required of State Agencies.

Neal said that if Noreen had attended a bunch of Coastal Conservancy board of director meetings, that would have marked her as a political grandstander—someone interested in being seen as performing environmental service, rather than as someone actually providing real services to the Coastal Conservancy, and to the taxpayers who fund it.

In fact, Neal said that Noreen did a very conscientious job of Coastal Conservancy oversight as a member of the Legislative Oversight Committee.

Of course, former Supervisor Koenigshofer knows this, as does his associate (also Press Democrat co-owner and former Congressman), Douglas Bosco. So the nasty mailer, put forth from an Anti-Noreen Evans Super-Pac controlled by Koenigshofer, represents the nastiest form of lying: a partial truth that implies a lie.

WOW!
Rev. BE :heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Kate Fenton:

Lynda Hopkins may be an organic farmer with a fresh face ...

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from Sonoma West Times and News, 10/13:

Calm down

EDITOR: The Ms. Moeckel letter regarding defaced Hopkins signs exploits the misguided activities of some anonymous vandal. Nobody knows who is doing the defacing but it's easy enough to defame Evans without evidence. It is possible that the Hopkins people decided that by defacing their own signs it would discredit Evans. No proof of that either. Evans’ signs have been vandalized and stolen, but nobody is pointing to Hopkins. So maybe we should calm down on the heavy-handed rhetoric and get on with discussing legitimate issues.

Since the candidates are so close on so many issues such as protecting the coast, fixing the roads, building affordable housing, with some differing solutions, what is left is to look at is the supporters of the candidates. The folks working for and support Hopkins are the same people who backed the disastrous terms of Efren Carrillo. They are a host of big monied interests and conservatives — wineries, gravel miners, real estate interests, and developers. Evans is backed by working people (unions) and environmental organizations such as the Sierra Club, Sonoma County Conservation Action as well as the Democratic Party and the Junior College Student Government Association.

Hopkins says she is not beholden to anyone. I'm not taking a chance. I'm voting Noreen.

Richard Nichols

Sebastopol



Amazing to hear
EDITOR: I was looking at the list of elected officials who have endorsed Lynda Hopkins and noticed that not a one had ever been endorsed by the Sierra Club. Yet, Lynda claims to be every bit the environmentalist that Noreen Evans is.
Noreen was endorsed by the Sierra Club for Fifth District Supervisor and she has been endorsed by them in every one of her races for the last 20 plus years. She was also named by the organization as the outstanding environmentalist in the legislator.
It is amazing to hear all Lynda’s promises to protect the environment given the long list of environmental bad actors that she is proud to list as supporters and from whom she is taking hundreds of thousands of dollars. Do you think it is her naïveté?
Rick Theis
Sebastopol

from The Press Democrat, 10/14;

A vote for Evans
EDITOR: As a second-generation property owner in Graton, I believe sustainable fire management is the most important issue in the 5th District supervisor race. We have seen the devastation visited on Lake County by the “new normal” wildfire — 70,000 acres burned, more 500 structures destroyed and 13,000 people displaced. It was a similar story as the Butte fire burned Calaveras County with such intensity that slate walkways were reduced to carbon dust and wine bottles melted by the case.

Both candidates, Lynda Hopkins and Noreen Evans, were very generous with their time and met with me to discuss these issues. Both acknowledged the threat of catastrophic fire to the 5th District and seemed to understand the causes of our present danger. Both listened patiently to my plan, but in the final analysis, I am going to vote for Noreen Evans. She was aware of existing programs in Sonoma County to mitigate fire danger, and she had a grasp of the liability exposure to a county with a history of issuing permits to build and live in fire danger zones.

KENT KAY
Graton

The threat of devastating fires is another good reason for voting for Noreen. The County currently has a curbside chipping program, which is limited in its funds. It is important for fire prevention and should be supported. Only certain roads are eligible, including the rural road on which I live.

It is raining this weekend, which is surely a blessing, but this is not a good time to forget the dangers of fires. We do need what Kent describes below as "sustainable fire management."

These last two posts are some of the value of Wacco, info & expertise about our community, in simple terms.
would hope Shepherd you could expand on the "chipping program". have lived in a rural part of Sebastopol for more than 20 years, & i am not familiar w. it, & would love to know more about it!!! thanks for helping me be a better land steward.

love that the posts are a little bit about Noreen & Linda, but as much about awareness of living in a rural area where we want to maintain the forested beauty (& no snarky remarks either!!) thank you!!!

gratitude to Waccoites who improve the quality of my life, & my knowledge about what is available for land management.

& thank you Barry. surely these are some of the benefits you had in mind w. taking Craig's list to a home town discussion, while enabling some of the assets of that site. :heart: yeah!!!:waccosun::waccosun:(know i am over the top, seeing Good on this site, makes me excited!! genetically wired w. high doses of enthusiasm)

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Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd:

...The County currently has a curbside chipping program, which is limited in its funds. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd:

...The County currently has a curbside chipping program, ...

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https://sonomacounty.ca.gov/uploaded...500.png?n=8304
Click here for information about the county's curbside chipping program. :waccosun:

I think I'm being baited. No thanks.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Get real richard, your and Kate's posts are best described as hyperbolic, whatever that means... take me for example, i really am undecided, respect both candidates, looking for info here on wacco from people like you, and i know a lot too. Mostly i ask about noreen, cause she puts out less info, that doesn't mean I'm decided on lynda. Yet my questions go unanswered by noreen supporters.

So what does noreen think about instream gravel mining in the mid and lower reach of the russian river? And the plans for a Forestville roundabout? Is she willing to meet with constituents about specific issues of their choosing as individuals or a group? Is she willing to challenge county staff when citizens demonstrate deeper knowledge about action the county is taking? Lynda has answers to these questions, noreen takes a pass. You seem to have the inside scoop, dish it out : )

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I'm the one taking the bait. Responding to your us vs them broadsides with honesty and reasonable questions. I stand strong in vulnerability, and you hide in the morass of partisan politics. No wonder you are afraid: (

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Posted in reply to the post by Richard Nichols:

I think I'm being baited. No thanks.

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No. Since my partner works the most common evenings for political gatherings and we have young children its difficult to meet in person. Noreens website sucks. I have looked at it and even ended up on her email list but i still can't access her on the issues section. Don't do facebook. I watch candidate forum videos, read newspaper articles, local list discussion and mailers and ask questions in person and here of her supporters. My experience is that she answers with broad policy. If she shares detail it's about past effort i already know about. So yes, i understand this as a pass when asked a question about specifics of what she would do about something the bos will be voting on. Its frustrating but she is an experienced pol. Its usually what they do, for very good reasons.

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

Ross have you asked Noreen these questions directly? Why do you say she takes a pass? Have you been to her web site? Her Facebook page? Please attend an upcoming meet and greet party and ask her yourself.

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:waccosun: :waccosun: :waccosun:

Here's video of the two recent debates between
Lynda Hopkins and Noreen Evans:

October 10 at the Sebastopol Community Center, sponsored by the League of Women Voters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTn4UxRh8Ao


October 3 at Sebastopol Community Church, Sponsored by the Rotary Club of Sebastopol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AneMwM3_J18&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3j8uFRYWUo

Barry,

I like your questions as these could be important in which box to check:

1) Who moved to the district when and why.
2) Financial backers and endorsers (again new information is welcome here)
3) Noreen's past actions regarding SEIU pensions (I'm looking at you, Tom! :wink:)
(Am I forgetting anything?)

1) From what I have heard, Noreen moved to Sebastopol and rented a house solely to run for the 5th district. Though she could have run in the district she was living in (and from what I heard where she owns a house) it would have meant running against one of her political allies. Then I got told that Lynda moved into the district as well but that she was already running her farm here. Do you know the details on this?

I expect if she loses, Noreen will likely jump out of West County like a frog out of hot water because, at this point, she is career politician looking for another political job. While I am all for recycling, I'd like to see a fresh face and certainly Lynda seems to have one. West County has always been able to muster good candidates going back many years so I don't see the need to import them but what I am hearing is that they are both imported.

2) More than who is backing either candidate, I'd like to know if we are continuing what I see as the false dialogue that it is the environmentalists against the farmers, grape growers, and housing proponents. From what little I know, Lynda seems to be more into building bridges instead of carrying on the old battles. Is this true or just my perception? While 'environmentalists' like to point at 'farmers' as the problem (and yes, grape growers are farmers) I can't get it out of my mind that the farmer is the man who feeds us all (and has preserved rural landscapes for generations.) We need to WORK TOGETHER to preserve agriculture AND the environment. Go Organic, Eat Local!

3) Don't know anything about the SEIU. What is this about?

Best Regards,

Dan

1. Both candidates moved to the district in the past year. Both say they did so because they like it here.

2. Your candidate is backed by wealthy developers and big wine. Noreen is backed by working people.

3. Noreen has a demonstrated history of working for people who were not born on 3rd and think they hits triples (looking at you, Hollie Hobbie farmer).

--Noreen has history of defending the environment. Your candidate has a history of accepting large gifts and pretending she has a real work history on her resume.

--Your crystal ball neglects to take into account campaign funding. I know you'd like voters to ignore her gravel miner, big developer, big winery wealthy patrons because of her "fresh face," but that would be stupid.
Trying to frame a complete lack of experience as a virtue is ridiculous and reeks of ageism.

--Her backers are anything but "fresh" to this party They paid to place Effren in this seat last election.

--Vineyard owners aren't feeding the masses, they grow wine. I like wine as much as anyone, but it's not food.

--The SEIU is a labor union. Labor unions bargain collectively to advance and preserve workers' rights. (The people who got kids out of factories!) Those who own the means of production are not fans (rich people, like your candidate, for example.)

You have already decided, so why do you bother pretending to want new information though? If you really wanted to have a specific question answered by either candidate it would be pretty easy. It seems like they are both readily available. Bit disingenuous to try to paint Evans as unapproachable. You're just campaigning from your couch, which is your prerogative.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

No. Since my partner works the most common evenings for political gatherings and we have young children its difficult to meet in person. Noreens website sucks. I have looked at it and even ended up on her email list but i still can't access her on the issues section. Don't do facebook. I watch candidate forum videos, read newspaper articles, local list discussion and mailers and ask questions in person and here of her supporters. My experience is that she answers with broad policy. If she shares detail it's about past effort i already know about. So yes, i understand this as a pass when asked a question about specifics of what she would do about something the bos will be voting on. Its frustrating but she is an experienced pol. Its usually what they do, for very good reasons.

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Mouse,

Thanks for the info though not the for the insults.

For the record: I was born in East LA in 1946 and my family moved to Petaluma in 1949 and lived in an army surplus tent for two years while my parents built a house. The family car was an army surplus jeep. My dad was blacklisted for union organizing in LA and later organized the painter's union in Marin. We were always poor because he would get fired regularly for labor organizing. I moved to Sebastopol in 1967 and was making almost nothing. I built my own house very small house (320 sq ft) out of the little I made each week. So please don't give me the 'born with a silver spoon' junk. I did build a successful business but that took 20 years of 7 day a week work.

Having worked all of my life and built 2 businesses, I finally came to the conclusion that not all capitalists are 'bad' and not all unions are 'good.' (Though it took my socialist dad a long time to accept that I had gone over to the dark side by having a business. He was heart broken when the Soviet Union went bust.)

Lynda is not 'my candidate.' I have not donated to her campaign nor endorsed her.

I know who SEIU is but don't understand what if any role they have in this election. Does it have to do with county pensions? I have been appalled at some of the pension practices in the county and state. When Rod Dole retired at a young age, he was making a lot more on his pension than he ever made in his job. This never made any sense to me.

I didn't insult you or even refer to you in my post, though I did presume you were in her fresh-faced corner (which it sounds like you are). I was referring to her as the person on 3rd who thinks she hit a triple, not you--sorry for the misunderstanding there.

She's the candidate of the silver spoon, while clearly you've had to work for your rewards in life.

Now that I reread your post, I guess the 'you, Hollie Hobbie Farmer' that you were referring to was Lynda, not me as in 'who were not born on 3rd and think they hits triples (looking at you, Hollie Hobbie farmer).' So you are right in saying you did not insult me, just Lynda and only confused me (easy to do at 70.)

It's just as well that you made me review what I wrote. (I get fired up, and could probably stand to reel it in sometimes. :yinyang:)

Have an excellent evening, sir.

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Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan:

Now that I reread your post, I guess the 'you, Hollie Hobbie Farmer' that you were referring to was Lynda, not me ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Here's video of the two recent debates between Lynda Hopkins and Noreen Evans:
October 10 at the Sebastopol Community Center, sponsored by the League of Women Voters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTn4UxRh8Ao

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I liked the forum put on by the league of women. They had an handout suggesting we look at who the behind the scenes financiers of the candidates were. Not just who they list. I was surprised that Hopkins could not verify if Republican (think Trump's party) Muelrath was or was not a registered lobbyist.

How can the Alliance's, and the wine industry's and the gravel mining industry's candidate not know about Muelrath's lobbyist connections? She sure looks smart with her big strategy answers but why did she play ignorant of this important question?

Isn't it interesting how Carrillo (his behavior sure is similar to Trump's- attack the women who criticize him) has been kept in a very low profile during this campaign. And Hopkins does not give credit to her main backers- Bosco and Koenigshofer. Makes me wonder what they stand to gain by getting an inexperienced person to this important position. Look at the lengths and expense they are going to in order to put her in power.
OK- Hopkins backers. Grind this up in the wacco grist mill.

No, i have not decided, and i will keep trying to collect info till i mark the box. I can understand why you think i favor lynda since i have been more positive about her and questioned noreen and her supporters. I have found lynda to be more approachable. Noreen's record is admirable and lots of people i respect really like her. While i voted for someone else in the primary i think both have the potential to be excellent supervisors. One thing I've noticed is they both give the same reason for initially going into politics; they noticed the system is broken, disconnected from the people and they wanted to bring more people in.

This really speaks to me since i believe it is possible to arrange our collective affairs without central authoritarianism with a legal monopoly on violence, i am an anarchist, so i vote early and every time. I vote by issue and person and do lots of research because i believe with enough attention we can evolve our society to the point where all are loved and supported, and I'm not just writing about people.

You seem to know noreen. Does she still have the juice to try and shake things up or is she going with her record as a promise to progressive supporters?

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Posted in reply to the post by mouse:

You have already decided, so why do you bother pretending to want new information though? If you really wanted to have a specific question answered by either candidate it would be pretty easy. It seems like they are both readily available. Bit disingenuous to try to paint Evans as unapproachable. You're just campaigning from your couch, which is your prerogative.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

My experience is that she answers with broad policy. If she shares detail it's about past effort i already know about. So yes, i understand this as a pass when asked a question about specifics of what she would do about something the bos will be voting on. Its frustrating but she is an experienced pol. Its usually what they do, for very good reasons.

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I think the problem here is that you have an unreasonable expectation of the kind of answer a candidate can honestly give. In fact I would say that if a candidate was willing to give you the kind of answer you seem to want, you should vote against that candidate.

Public policy is exteremly complex. There are no simple solutions, and anyone who gives you a simple solution is either lying or uninformed. All solutions benefit some and harm others. Issues do not stand alone, and often must be balanced against each other and ranked as budgetary priorities. Ultimately how any office holder votes on a given subject depends entirely on the specifics of the proposal and the overall situation as it stands right then. What you are getting from Noreen is a truthful response based on many years of experience at the job of legislating. She can tell you her general attitude to the topic, and she can tell you what she has done in the past on similar occasions, or what you call answering with broad policy and details of past efforts. What she cannot honestly tell you is how she would vote on any specific issue until the time came for casting that vote.

What you are getting from Lynda Hopkins is the analysis of one who has never held public office, and knows nothing of the complexity of real world decision making at the county level. Such a person can afford to have simplistic solutions that sound so compelling, she has never had to actually get one of her ideas through the painful and exhausting process of becoming law. Perhaps a spell on a school board or planning commission or some place she can get some real world experience would humble her a little. Supervisor? I don't think so.

Patrick Brinton

We can also ask candidates about how they would have voted in past bos decisions. Both women have made specific proposals, its useful to discuss and evaluate them, like Lynda's regional boards spending tot tax, or Noreen's pot for potholes position. Is our decision as a voter less complicated than any a county supervisor makes? Perhaps if you are a consistent demo progressive supporter. In that case vote evans and trash the competition, boring...

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Posted in reply to the post by pbrinton:

I think the problem here is that you have an unreasonable expectation of the kind of answer a candidate can honestly give. ...

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Ken Sund brings up a very important consideration. When I first met Lynda Hopkins, she was a reporter for the Sonoma West Times/Hbg Gazette group, and since becoming a candidate she has told me face to face, and a number of enviro groups in meetings that I have attended, that she reported on County issues for several years.

Most Sonoma County-based reporters know VERY well how the political funding lines run in Sonoma County, because politically-interested people tend to discuss those things—sometimes to the exclusion of policy issues (because they understand the policy positioning behind the money). Most SC-based reporters are aware of the now-established pattern of moneyed interests, led by Bosco and Koenigshofer, finding fresh faces with no previous political service in Sonoma County and pouring large donations into those campaigns, and also shepherding those campaigns, to defeat enviro-backed candidates with a great deal of experience and knowledge of the issues. AND are aware that the end game of those campaigns has always been a smear campaign.

Lynda Hopkins is a very smart person: she is educated and has worked with some grassroots organizations that I know for sure also discuss these political-financing connections. She HAS to know what is going on.

Muelrath certainly knows, because he has represented so many Alliance-funded campaigns, including the earlier ones of this type.

Shrill denials (e.g. the B-S video) strike me as an example of Shakespeare's line (from Hamlet): "The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

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Posted in reply to the post by Ken Sund:

... Hopkins does not give credit to her main backers- Bosco and Koenigsofer...

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Ross, I really think you should make the effort to meet Noreen. Everyone that meets her learns that yes, she definitely has the juice and amazing intellect and experience. There are still two meet and greet parties coming up, you could be welcome at either one and I'm sure you would come away with your decision made. Happens with just about everyone who meets her!

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

...You seem to know noreen. Does she still have the juice to try and shake things up or is she going with her record as a promise to progressive supporters?

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Throughout this seemingly endless conversation what is most striking to me is how many don't get that maybe, just maybe, it's not about expecting great favors from Lynda Hopkins. It's about stopping what is seen as a carpet bagging Noreen promoting an east county agenda on a west county constituency. Hopkins is both smart and a bit more moderate and deemed more than worthy as a candidate.

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Posted in reply to the post by jenielson:

...Lynda Hopkins is a very smart person: she is educated and has worked with some grassroots organizations that I know for sure also discuss these political-financing connections. She HAS to know what is going on. ...

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Lynda has spoken about how she was to reframe the stale debate between environment and business (1min 19 seconds):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHr5jcA-ifA

When faced with a traditional politician that touts her support of the environmental and labor interests or a politician that seeks to "bridge the political divides", it's clear that business and agricultural interests are going to support that one that is offering to throw them a lifeline and reframe the debate.

I think it is improper logic to say that since she accepts their financial support that she is in their pocket. This is particularly true in Lynda's case being that she is an organic farmer. The business interests are going to support one candidate or the other. I'm sure they would prefer a traditional business supporter type candidate to Lynda, but that is not available.

I think Lynda's conviction in support of the environment is firm. I also appreciate that she doesn't demonize business (or Noreen). There's a place for responsible development and responsible business.

This is a topic for another thread some day, but I see people refusing to support our wine and tourists industries. While they both are not without problems, I don't think it is the proper position to be categorically against them. They are our golden geese and need to be controlled and not demonized.

Regarding the SEIUn (to answer Dan's question) , my biggest concern (besides Lisa's [the SEIU's representative] obnoxious and harsh remarks here) is that the county is going to need to negotiate with the union about many things, including whether county employees should make larger contributions to their generous pension plan. The SEIU has made a $80,000+ independent expenditure on Noreen's behalf. How tough a negotiator do you think Noreen is going to be? I think it would be great if we all had generous pensions (I don't have a pension. Do you?) But I also think that our roads should be kept in good repair and safety net for the homeless and other disadvantaged populations could be strengthened. Lynda sees pensions as a problem and is calling them to be reformed. Noreen is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PzoGlQOESc

The SEIU is a self-interested organization. Take a look at their questionnaire for the BOS candidates (attached). Their oriented is clearly "what's best for the union" and not "what's best for the county". I want our supervisor to negotiate for what's best for the county.

The SEIU's support for Noreen is not damning, but it does raise concerns, just like business interests support for Lynda.

I think Noreen is a fine candidate and experienced politician. I would totally support her if she wins and I think she would do a fine job representing us on the BOS.

I think Lynda has the possibility of being a gifted leader that can transform our oppositional politics. I'm willing to give her a shot.

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

Ross, I really think you should make the effort to meet Noreen. Everyone that meets her learns that yes, she definitely has the juice and amazing intellect and experience. There are still two meet and greet parties coming up, ...

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Noreen Evans Meet and Greet in Sebastopol
Monday, October 17 at 05:30 PM

Hosts Bleys Rose, Miriam Silver, Susan Swartz and Bob Klose invite you to meet and talk with Noreen Evans. Refreshments will be served
RSVP

Noreeen Evans Graton Meet and Greet
Wednesday, October 19 at 06:00 PM

Hosts Christy Lubin, Jordan Burns, and Maureen Purtill invite you to join for casual conversation with Noreen Evans. Refreshments will be served - come with your questions!
RSVP

(edit)
And Lynda Hopkins has one more meet and greet setup:
Lynda Hopkins Occidental Grassroots Get-Together
Thursday, October 20th, 6-8 at the Occidental Union Hotel

What is it about this woman that makes some people want to give her things she hasn't earned?

Why do you think she will change the dialogue? She's only demonstrated a propensity for the opposite so far. She made an incendiary video whining about being called out on her 'truthiness,' and attacked her opponent in the process. Old school politics from this year's Syar Gravel mining candidate. Shocking.

Why would any intelligent person vote for wealthy developers' handpicked candidate because she 'seems like she seems like she could possibly be effective at 'reframing the conversation between environmentalists and big business.' Do you even hear yourself?

Once the environment is messed up, it's virtually impossible to fix. Once our representative allows unfettered development, there's really no going back. I am not willing to "give her a shot' until she demonstrates competence at a lower level. The stakes are way too high.

(I am not in a union, and I personally don''t have a pension either btw, but that doesn't mean I don't think they're a great idea. Of course rich people like your candidate will never depend on pensions to live out their lives. They own their own, what do you cal it? Golden goose! Hooray for rich in-laws, but what about the working folks?)

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Lynda has spoken about how she was to reframe the stale debate between environment and business ....

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During the past five months, a number of people have yelled at me, often in an uncivil and unfriendly manner, about the unanimous decision by the nine members of this year's Progressive Sebastopol Voter Guide to endorse Lynda Hopkins over Noreen Evans. Their arguments always start with, "don't you know who her donors are?" Indeed, we made this decision with our eyes wide open, selecting the person who is the better of two excellent well-intentioned candidates who would each be very hard working and dedicated Supervisors.

Like Barry, we remain convinced that when it comes to the critical issues of attainably priced housing, and our County budget and the pensions that have come to consume nearly all our growing tax revenue, Noreen Evans will stay the current pothole-ridden course, while Hopkins would more likely be an agent for politically independent positive change--for our economy, for housing, for the public interest, and even, perhaps, for our environment.

Out of respect for Noreen and her many supporters, we really do not know this for sure.

But here is what we wrote in May:

We share a concern about Hopkins’ donors from the construction and wine industries. Hopkins replied convincingly to this concern with clear, carefully considered independent positions that seem unaffected by who her donors are

Noreen Evans also carries her own donor baggage. Evans has received as much funding support as Hopkins, except that it has mostly come from unions. This includes the largest spender by far, the SEIU Union representing public employees, which has spent over $50,000 supporting Noreen Evans. Progressive Sebastopol believes in the importance of unions. But the likelihood that Noreen Evans will support the continually escalating number of County workers and the spiraling cost of their benefits in return for its support seems to us more likely than the likelihood that Lynda Hopkins will act against our environment to support real estate or wine interests.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Lynda has spoken about how she was to reframe the stale debate between environment and business (1min 19 seconds):...

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It just stuns me that people think a young unproven person with no elected political experience can handle this huge job. This brings up a question I have been wanting to ask. Since any decision on the BOS requires at least 3 votes, who do you think will be the other two votes to bring about this "environmental, road building, housing for all" plan put forth by this novice? Noreen has a proven track record for leadership, for getting things done, for standing up against the interests that only want to grab our resources - she is FAR from the status quo of this board.

Well said.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Lynda has spoken about how she was to reframe the stale debate between environment and business ...

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Posted in reply to the post by mouse:

... Old school politics from this year's Syar Gravel mining candidate. Shocking.
...

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This is a great example of ossified old school us vs them politics that I think Lynda can help transform.

This is from the PD:

Hopkins said extracting gravel from the banks of the Russian River, however, could actually help restore it to a more natural state and help endangered fish species recover — an idea supported by some biologists and river advocates.

“Today, the river is stuck in a straitjacket,” said Don McEnhill, executive director of the nonprofit Russian Riverkeeper. “Most mining prior to today was done in a way that was very harmful for the river, but we are open to gravel mining if it can help the river spread out to bring down the natural flood plain.”

That's been published and commented on here before , yet "gravel mining" and "Syar" still gets tossed around by Noreen's supporters as if it is the definition of evil.

Marty, you present the "let's choose experience" argument simply and eloquently. I have heard it before, so let me try to answer this.

The reason that I, and many thousands of our neighbors, believe is that when it comes to holding political office, experience cuts two ways. It provides a familiarity for process and the job, yes. But it also provides a number of non-so positive attributes, among them:

1) A history of political endorsements, friendships, favors, horse trading, and payback chits. Hence an unwillingness to take on the unions, not just SEIU but the law enforcement, probation and prison guard unions, over pensions and retirement costs.

2) A limited sense of what is possible. This has been evidenced by Noreen's unwillingness to embrace the prospect that small auxiliary homes., NOT built by developers, but by thousands of middle income people, is the most efficient and practical way to resolve our urgent housing crisis.

3) A sense of entitlement over one's office and a lack of appreciation for doing things differently.

This is not to suggest that Noreen has been corrupted by her past office, her past donors, or her political alliances. But it does point to why so many citizens like the idea of term limits, and like to vote for independent, non-professional, or non-career politicians.

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

It just stuns me that people think a young unproven person with no elected political experience can handle this huge job. ....

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Barry and Jonathan,

Thanks for the info.
If what I read is true, SEIU is likely the largest contributor in this race BY FAR and away.
I like unions too but when they buy loyalty from politicians with union dues one has to wonder.
Would it be true to say that no other contributor has given/spent as much as SEIU?
(I can't imagine that Lynda has any contributor even close to this figure.)

Dan

Please note that I had a typo in my post that I have corrected. FAR from the status quo - not from the status quo..... She wants to change business as usual that has gone on too long on the BOS.

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Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan:

Marty, you present the "let's choose experience" argument simply and eloquently. I have heard it before, so let me try to answer this.

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I know I said I would write only once on this thread, but I feel compelled to respond to this. I realized I can no longer walk the tight rope of political correctness in order not to hurt a friend.

I made no secret of the reason I jumped into the race for Supervisor in the 5th District. I had a visceral response to the perception that someone was moving into MY District in order to run for Supervisor. That an Outsider knew what was BEST for ME. I stood toe to toe with her, telling her she was WRONG on certain issues. She listened respectfully, never becoming defensive. Over 4 months and 12-13 Forums, I got to know her, and respect her. Her demeanor, her ideas and her ability to laugh at herself, made me realize my perceptions were WRONG. This person is Noreen Evans.

She is no more a carpetbagger than Lynda. Lynda just happened to move into the District months before Noreen. If we were to have a residency requirement, as your letter implies, Tim Sergent, Tom Lynch and I would have been the only 3 eligible candidates to run this year I am supporting, endorsing and VOTING for Noreen because I feel that the 5th District will be in good hands.

On a personal level, I like Lynda Hopkins. However, based on personal observations during the initial campaign, I do not believe she has the temperament, maturity or experience, to be representing me on the BOS. I would like very much to see her remain active in County politics. I believe she has much to add to the dialogue.

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

Throughout this seemingly endless conversation what is most striking to me is how many don't get that maybe, just maybe, it's not about expecting great favors from Lynda Hopkins. It's about stopping what is seen as a carpet bagging Noreen promoting an east county agenda on a west county constituency. Hopkins is both smart and a bit more moderate and deemed more than worthy as a candidate.

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Will she be producing more videos about manure then? She alienated lots of locals with that. I get that you find her dreamy for your own reasons (youth and inexperience as far as I can tell)--I don't. She has done nothing to suggest that politically she is other than Effren 2.0. People endorsed Effren for the same reasons you cite for supporting her, but take a ride in your car. Notice the pot holes are still there, and the quarries on the River continue to expand.

She will not be able to be all things to all people like she promises. At some point our representative will have to make difficult decisions that cannot serve the desires and interests of neighborhoods and residents and developers at the same time. I do not trust your candidate with those decisions.

Why did Syar Gravel Mining give her $15,000.00 anyway? Balletto? Dutton? The Ratto Group (the trash hauler with the monopoly on our pick-up). Why? What are they buying? They're not stupid, and their mission is profit.

I've taken a good, long look at her face and turns out that it really isn't at all fresh.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

This is a great example of ossified old school us vs them politics that I think Lynda can help transform.....

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"1) A history of political endorsements, friendships, favors"

Your candidate's campaign is built on money from developers, big wine, ad gravel miners. Her personal wealth has been a gift from her vineyard owner in-laws. Could she be anymore beholden?

"2) A limited sense of what is possible."

So, if I understand correctly, Noreen disagrees with you on your singular solution to a single issue and from that you claim, "2) A limited sense of what is possible." More accurately, it sounds like a practical approach to community preservation and an unwillingness to pretend that reality can be overcome. She seems to have an actual sense of what's possible, and resists telling you what you want to hear, even though it could convince you to vote for her.

"3) A sense of entitlement ..."

Of all the phrases that you could have used ironically, I think this is my favorite. You support a woman who, as the saying goes, was born on 3rd, thinks she hit a triple. Never had a real job, lies about it ad nauseum on her resume, and seems to have no clue that she has been chosen specifically to serve her 4th distract financial backers...or does she actually know that? Either way, no thank you.

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Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan:

...experience cuts two ways. It provides a familiarity for process and the job, yes. But it also provides a number of non-so positive attributes, among them:

1) A history of political endorsements, friendships, favors, horse trading, and payback chits. Hence an unwillingness to take on the unions, not just SEIU but the law enforcement, probation and prison guard unions, over pensions and retirement costs.

2) A limited sense of what is possible. This has been evidenced by Noreen's unwillingness to embrace the prospect that small auxiliary homes., NOT built by developers, but by thousands of middle income people, is the most efficient and practical way to resolve our urgent housing crisis.

3) A sense of entitlement over one's office and a lack of appreciation for doing things differently. ....

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and on the national level, non-career politician, the best example, is what we get- Trump!
no experience, in deep do-do..what a mess.
Hopkins has some $$$ and that's it...so many people with $$$ often believe, that's enough.

i think term limits are, maybe, an answer. Noreen Evans, perhaps, became too comfortable and didn't have to work as hard (she is Completely wrong on 2nd dwellings) as someone trying to break in- and come through as a viable candidate.
never-the-less, if we could have observed Lynda Hopkins in local politics, on different levels, and seen what she brings to the table, then maybe i would have some confidence in her abilities. i simply don't. she has leap-frogged over political seats and wants people to think she is good enough. she is not.

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Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan:

...when it comes to holding political office, experience cuts two ways. It provides a familiarity for process and the job, yes. But it also provides a number of non-so positive attributes, among them:...

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'and on the national level, non-career politician, the best example, is what we get- Trump!
no experience, in deep do-do..what a mess.'

This is a point well taken but I would offer another thought: if Donald Trump was not a complete, absolute and total disaster, he would easily beat Hillary Clinton, who brings LOTS of baggage as a career politician. In fact, I would hazard to say that ANY of the other Republican candidates would have beaten Hillary. While I think a lot of her baggage is 'trumped up', we can only be grateful that the Donald is who he is and trounced the other GOP candidates.

Well...just to report in from the peanut gallery, you two made MY evening ever so much more excellent. I'm happy to bask in your civility.

kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by mouse:

It's just as well that you made me review what I wrote. (I get fired up, and could probably stand to reel it in sometimes. :yinyang:)

Have an excellent evening, sir.

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"deemed" by exactly whom?

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

... Hopkins is both smart and a bit more moderate and deemed more than worthy as a candidate.

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I went to their last forum that was held at the Sebastopol Community Center. Frankly, I did not see much difference between their positions. The conversation was friendly, civil and they both were well informed. I think whoever wins this race will make a fine supervisor for the 5th district.

from The Press Democrat, 10/16:



Where’s Waldo?
EDITOR: Tuesday’s article made clear what we all suspected — Noreen Evans has always fought for the people of Sonoma County and has the record of service to prove it (“Candidates push Sheriff’s Office transparency”).


Evans is the one candidate with a solid plan to produce the urgently needed housing, now in such critically short supply: “To address housing, Evans said she would require a portion of all new development to be affordable for low- and middle-income residents. She also voiced strong support for rent control and other tenant protections.”
Lynda Hopkins, on the other hand, promises to further enrich developers by “reducing permit fees and creating other incentives to encourage developers to build more.”
We now know where Waldo is and where our votes need to go. Vote for housing for all, vote for Noreen Evans for Sonoma County 5th District supervisor.
DEBORAH NITASAKA

Strange that you claim to have grown up in a union working class home but your post shows that you can't seem to differentiate the very basic difference between Rod Dole as (MANAGEMENT) making a six figure pension and the average SEIU1021 worker pension which is 33K a year. It also seems funny that someone raised in the working class would not know about this very common and very basic tactic of anti- union rhetoric of conflating Directors and Managers salaries with those of workers and then using those figures to attack the union and create a 'pension crisis'.

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Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan:

...I know who SEIU is but don't understand what if any role they have in this election. Does it have to do with county pensions? I have been appalled at some of the pension practices in the county and state. When Rod Dole retired at a young age, he was making a lot more on his pension than he ever made in his job. This never made any sense to me.

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Lisa: You know a great deal about pensions and salaries and the Big Picture; a lot more than the 99% of us (I know that does not make you THAT 1% :).

You have heard me express this sincere request before but you did not respond to it:

I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong, but here is what I understand:

On behalf of your employer, the SEIU, you make the case that critics of the County pension costs unfairly lump rank and file SEIU pensions with other, more gold plated pensions programs (as per your response to Dan).

Specifically, I believe. there are three main categories for County employees: SEIU employees, "Directors and Managers "( referenced below) and law enforcement (sheriff, probation and county jail employees).

My request is that your union crunch and present to the public ballpark figure data showing what portion of our County budget's pension payments, and obligations, derive from EACH of these three categories, and what the average pension benefit, obligation, and compensation (including retirement and health costs) there are for EACH category, and the number of County employees for each each.

I suggest this sincerely, Lisa, as someone who has some understanding of the situation, and a financial journalist's sense that there is some degree of merit to your argument, but an awareness that the media and our citizen taxpayers do not have this data crunched snapshot available.

Rather than attack or dismiss people like Dan. or Lynda Hopkins, or Tom Lynch, or myself, as being ignorant, or anti-Union stooges, or anti-working people, none of which is true, then shine some light on the larger picture to help voters make a more informed choice.

The Sonoma Independent's non-profit parent is called Informing to Empower, and that's what I feel we need more of: Empowering Information. Grassroots community groups like our Progressive Sebastopol Voter Guide would also greatly benefit from having such figures available as we asses the records of various political candidates.

Providing information to counter arguments that you think are incorrect will go a lot further in our community than hurling insults and accusations.

I write this with sincerity, respect, and hope for a bridge to understanding, Jonathan

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Strange that you claim to have grown up in a union working class home but your post shows that you can't seem to differentiate the very basic difference between Rod Dole as (MANAGEMENT) making a six figure pension and the average SEIU1021 worker pension which is 33K a year. ...

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Lisa.
your points are well taken in terms of unions/political baiting.
think they would have been more effective posted clearly, simply, and with out the bold.
we need to remember in much of the political/social change work we do, that we are not the enemy. "we are always closer" than those who we truly oppose. west county may be progressive, but it is a long way from the "groovy peace town" terminology some like to use.
is this truly how we want to communicate with members of our community ?
would hope that all will think, what does it mean when a small community gets so riled, so angry that are posts vent that anger towards each other.
there is an edit button.
i certainly have lost it over politics more often than i think to remember, but rarely does it move me closer to my goal.
i support Noreen, but most of my reasons have been well documented in the last month.
the discussion seems almost irrelevant here.
i am saddened that my remarks haven't moved us towards an amicable tone.
believe caring communities are desperately needed.
discouraging that these threads seem to regress.
would love it if others have ideas on maintaining an amiable tone. believe that the circle would open, and more would participate.
thanks for your time and good thoughts on these basic and confounding issues.
blessings.
susan jan

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Strange that you claim to have grown up in a union working class home but your post shows that you can't seem to differentiate the very basic difference between Rod Dole as (MANAGEMENT) making a six figure pension and the average SEIU1021 worker pension which is 33K a year...

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Lisa,

Your Point is very well taken!
Rod Dole is obviously not your average worker, this only points to self serving at the administrative level.
That being said, I have friends who have been school administrators and they are also retiring with more than they were earning.

So a few questions:

1) How long does someone have to work for the county to be qualified for full pension?
(When I worked for the state, it was 20 years and a lot of people were double dippers having gotten a military pension and then a state one.)

2) What are the unfunded pension liabilities that the county has at present (if any)?

3) What are the biggest financial challenges the county now faces?
(Pensions are usually the biggest for any municipality.)

What we see in our society is that people are living much longer than we ever planned for, which has created a huge problem for municipalities of all kinds as well as Social Security. If you are fully funded after 20 years, and you start work for the county at 30, you can retire at 50 with a full pension. Now you might not be making a lot in your pension, but you are likely to collect it for another 30 years (current life expectancy in the US is 79.3), 10 more than you worked and if you get another job, you are now making two incomes. (Obviously this does not work for everyone.)

Now I am not arguing that county workers are getting a good deal, only that counties are in a bind because of the demographics if they have a 20 year pension plan. The average life expectancy used to be 65 so having Social Security kick in at 65 made a lot of sense. (If you were one of the lucky ones to get to 65, you got to retire with a little money.) Since we are now living to 80 (actually if you make it to 65 and are in good health, you will live to 90+), we do have to rethink how we fund 'old age.'

I have thought a lot about this with Social Security, which in my view should be means tested (don't pay to people with wealth) and have a higher retirement age. (You can collect at 62 now, though at a lower rate.)
I have no solution for municipal pensions other than to have a 30 year requirement. (This may already be the case so please enlighten me.) My personal experience is that we need to keep people in the job market longer not only because we can't afford to fund their fishing trips but we need their experience and expertise.

Check out this Ted Talk to hear more on this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGgoCm1hofM

But whatever the situation, having SEIU be the biggest contributor to a candidate who will vote on pension issues leaves me a little cold. (I am assuming here that no one has come close to the SEIU donations so I could be proven wrong very easily if this is not the case.)

After reading your "musing" and list of questions (sorry I don't have time to do your homework) I am even more sceptical that your profile is real. But I will answer your anti- Seiu question - NO we are not the biggest contributer to this election. Business developers and gravel miners supporting Lynda Hopkins have donated six figures to this race.
See the attached thumbnail for a list of their big money Political Action Committees. These are from the Sonoma Business Alliance and North Coast Builders Exhange and other developer and anti rent control PACS. But as someone raised in a working class union household you know doubt are familiar with how Big Business buys elections.....and are trying very hard to buy this one for Lynda- one need only look at her daily mail that is flooding the mailbox. It costs a lot of money to look that folksy #followthemoney #greenwashing #astroturf

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Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan:

So a few questions:......

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Susan, thanks for your feedback. I am sorry you find my 'bold' font offensive. Really its just because i have a very time reading this clunky old interface on this sight and its hard for me to see which is the reply and which is the post being replied to. What does bold font mean to you? Its not all caps which i know means shouting - it's simply a device for me to see my statement. I meant no offense by it. As a woman sometimes I get faulted for being too direct and emphatic- if you notice there are a great many men on this thread who are much more brusque and biting than I. I appreciate your feedback.
Lisa

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Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

Lisa.
your points are well taken in terms of unions/political baiting.
think they would have been more effective posted clearly, simply, and with out the bold.

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

After reading your "musing" and list of questions (sorry I don't have time to do your homework) I am even more sceptical that your profile is real. But I will answer your anti- Seiu question - NO we are not the biggest contributer to this election. Business developers and gravel miners supporting Lynda Hopkins have donated six figures to this race....

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Lisa,

Yow! I only asked a few simple questions that you certainly know the answer to.
If you are too busy to answer, no problem I'll look elsewhere.

from The Press Democrat 10/17:

A matter of experience
EDITOR: An excellent Oct. 10 article about the 5th Supervisorial district candidates brought up an important point: Lynda Hopkins, to her critics, “is an untested novice with no record to show how she will address and vote on a range of county issues, from divisive land-use proposals including winery development and marijuana regulation, to county spending on roads and employee pensions” (“High-stakes battle for seat”).
Those voting for Noreen Evans know her record from 20 years in public service. Hopkins is unproven. She has never held public office. How can voters take a risk with someone with such little experience? To think she is qualified for the most powerful and important job in this county seems rather naive.
This is a complex county and an enormous district. We need a leader who can hit the ground running and has experience we can trust. That leader is Noreen Evans.
JOHN DeROSA
Santa Rosa

I agree that Lynda Hopkins currently lacks the temperament that is needed for a Supervisor, the County's highest elected office. I do hope that she can develop a less shrill response to criticism as she matures. I can attest that maturity, and following better examples, help to damp a tendency toward emotional outbursts. Her children are likely to benefit from that also—mine certainly did!

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Posted in reply to the post by sohemi:

...On a personal level, I like Lynda Hopkins. However, based on personal observations during the initial campaign, I do not believe she has the temperament, maturity or experience, to be representing me on the BOS. I would like very much to see her remain active in County politics. I believe she has much to add to the dialogue.

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Here is a great open letter to Eric Koenigshofer - the one who is running the hate campaign against Noreen - posted in a different thread on Wacco.

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

I am sorry you find my 'bold' font offensive. Really its just because i have a very time reading this clunky old interface on this sight ...,

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I also find Lisa's bold font out of place and I generally remove it before the post goes out in the digest.
Clunky, eh? Hmmm... :waccosun:

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

.... But I will answer your anti- Seiu question - NO we are not the biggest contributer to this election. Business developers and gravel miners supporting Lynda Hopkins have donated six figures to this race....

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The data you provided is a diverse set of business and development interests, each with it's own agenda. The largest of which, "California Real Estate Political Action Committee" (which is itself a consortium) gave a total $40,000, less than half of the SEIU's over $81,000 independent expenditure.

I haven't reviewed all the contribution and expenditure reports, but I challenge you to document a single entity that has spent or contributed more than the SEIU.

hi Lisa!

it is i! worked in the battered women's movement for almost 15 years. my words here have strong threads to my work then. now focus on horse rescue, & the healing ability it has for the equines and people involved.
learned much about attacking your own there ("battered by the battered women's movement"). the work, the perspectives, some great mentors, along with the personal attacks, moved me forward on my journey to do meaningful work each day, and to try to do it clearly, and when possible, with kindness. (no question that this is a life's work).
my years in domestic violence clarified for me, how few people feel they have a voice/power in this society. we have much to do to change that. it is likely why i work so hard to avoid participating where the exchanges aren't respectful. no one wants to waste their time/efforts; evaluating if a dialog has possibilities to change minds/lives is critical. (good to find the exit, or here, unsubscribe to the thread).
glad i didn't get to the 2nd step, today. excited to here of connections to old friends who served in the trenches with me. Coni, and many others, played a huge part in what we were able to accomplish then, and what i strive to accomplish each day.
if vision is an issue, think you want to use a larger font.
will write you personally to connect. excited.:waccosun:
great to make smaller worlds and revitalize old connections.:heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Susan, thanks for your feedback. I am sorry you find my 'bold' font offensive. Really its just because i have a very time reading this clunky old interface on this sight and its hard for me to see which is the reply and which is the post being replied to. What does bold font mean to you? Its not all caps which i know means shouting - it's simply a device for me to see my statement. I meant no offense by it. As a woman sometimes I get faulted for being too direct and emphatic- if you notice there are a great many men on this thread who are much more brusque and biting than I. I appreciate your feedback.
Lisa

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Again its interesting that Barry, Johnathan and Dan are afraid of unions (which are simply working people in collective action) standing together and aggregating their individual interests as workers- to participate in politics; but you are not concerned about corporate wine and corporate industry buying an election. Indeed you seem to have no problem dismissing them as a 'consortium of interests" However that's all a union is - a consortium of interests. We are public interest fighting for better lives for all workers - unlike private industry which is solely interested in making profits for their shareholders.

And had you bothered to read our voter mail you would see that it's all indivdual donations (see below). I find it interesting when people who call themselves progressives or environmentalists believe that that big corporate wineries and gravel mining interests and real estate pacs have every right to put big money in a race- but then try to create fear about unions and workers doing the same.

There is a reason that Bernie Sanders is a HUGE supporter of unions and it is exactly this- he sees that we are the only activists fighting against corporate greed and oligarchy. You are out of step with Bernie and the district in choosing to side with Big Winery and Corporate power over workers and unions. So please forgive me if I don't take the bait and continue to engage in answering your attacks on unions.

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Posted in reply to the post by farmerdan:

...If what I read is true, SEIU is likely the largest contributor in this race BY FAR and away.
I like unions too but when they buy loyalty from politicians with union dues one has to wonder.
Would it be true to say that no other contributor has given/spent as much as SEIU?

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Deemed by the plurality of primary voters.

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

"deemed" by exactly whom?

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Again it's interesting that Barry, Jonathan and Dan are afraid of unions....

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That sure sounds to me like you acknowledge that the SEIU is the LARGEST single contributor or expenditure organization to the 5th district Supervisor's race. :waccosun:

You seem to be handy with the campaign financing reports, Lisa. Why not document that this is not the case? Or explicitly acknowledge this? Or is this something you are not proud of? Might it raise a bit of concern?

It's not that I am not concerned corporate contribution as well. It's just that in an election where the key charge against Lynda Hopkins is that she has received a lot corporate contributions from a variety of business interests (with varying agendas), it still remains that the SEIU is the single largest contributor/expenditure organization. And it just so happens that the Supervisors will have to negotiate with the union on any changes to union pensions.

Lynda's campaign has huge bucks to send all these mailers out and hire national poller's like Rand Corporation who have called my home twice now. First time was for rating our concern over the coast and second time rating issues. Each time new mailers came out from the Hopkin's campaign that were directly made from the polling. You are being marketed for your vote with the expectation you won't take a look at the candidate who has NO EXPERIENCE. They are tailoring the campaign to say whatever they need to do. The good ole boys are very, very worried they won't retain control of the county.

Remember the Groundwater Sustainability Act I wrote about earlier? Those panels are being formed right now and it is turning into a political instrument to get the wineries, tourism business and real estate interests control of our water as Hopkins will be the swing vote. So all those idealists out there wanting to vote for Hopkins, when you get your house condemned (panel has imminent domain powers) and get that huge tax assessment for capital water projects (also part of their powers and everyone pays for it), I will remind you that you voted for a novice that had enormous backing from the folks that have the most to gain.

It is not a fluke that since watering of vineyards began in 1970, the tonnage per acre has doubled. The Hopkins's donors will say and do anything to get that water as it means big profits for these huge corporations and the state has already denied their request to be on all 5 basin panels. Lynda is Plan B.

i'm trying to imagine the seating up on the BOS chambers,depending on who wins. and where the heck would they place Lynda Hopkins?...i would guess she would just have to sit next to Gore, the Other Wine Guy, always for the Wine Industry, and he can best show her the ropes- and she will try to act like she has it all down only to be quickly reprimanded and put in her place...slowly she will look like a deer in the headlights...and her loudmouth, overly confident demeanor we see now will slowly fade.

or
Noreen Evans wins, and oh dear where to seat her in the Chambers? I have to guess she must be put next to Susan Gorin because she might be the only BOS member who doesn't, obviously, try to scratch anyone's eyes out....

Shirlee Zane is simply too Zaney, pretty distracted most of the time and Rabbit bites, and Gore is the Ignore...so i'd guess Noreen will do just fine against seasoned Gorin--quite the conservative but still won't bite and never acts threatened..kinda like it's always a game with her and don't take anything too seriously.
i wish Noreen the best of luck but i know she can handle herself just fine. One of the best and nicest things about her winning is that the other BOS members might have to work a little harder.

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Posted in reply to the post by O.W.:

...Remember the Groundwater Sustainability Act I wrote about earlier? Those panels are being formed right now and it is turning into a political instrument to get the wineries, tourism business and real estate interests control of our water as Hopkins will be the swing vote. ...

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So your writing that the groundwater panels and regs coming down are a plan that includes a Hopkins win? But Evans is proud she helped sign them in! So Evans experience is what will keep the water for people not vino?

We live in a representative democracy. Only our continued attention keeps the ball rolling in the peoples direction. The best vote is for the the woman who listens. To critique a candidate for taking the money given and polling to adjust her campaign ignores what we are given. Is your goal to shut the pumps of vineyards for residences, or to control the pumps so we don't suck all the water out of the earth?

I met noreen tonight at another posters urging, talked one on one a little, then asked a question in front of everyone; why do city folks get to vote for county supervisors? I have no idea if she heard me since she did not respond... of course i have a guess. Part of which is that lynda would.

Correct me if i am wrong. Evans claims credit for coastal commissions actions as member of legislative oversight. Kone slams evans for not attending meetings. Politics as usual?

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Posted in reply to the post by scamperwillow:

Here is a great open letter to Eric Koenigshofer - the one who is running the hate campaign against Noreen - posted in a different thread on Wacco.

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Yes, you are quite wrong.
Evans represented Sonoma County on the Commission, as a Santa Rosa City Councilmember, and is a strong supporter. BUT. The current spurious accusations against her are about a different body, the state-funded Coastal Conservancy. As a legislator she was a member of the Legislative Oversight body, which verified the way the Conservancy programs and finances were administered. She performed that job well, according to former Conservancy staff members. She was not concerned with making policy or programmatic decisions, and was not expected to attend meetings.

The interesting thing about the false accusation being circulated is that people are likely to see Coastal Conservancy and think Coastal Commission. That is the clever thing about it—you are intended to make that mistake.

The people putting out this clever slander are Lynda Hopkins' supporters. I do have to judge her by the company she keeps, because they will not stop trying to use her, if elected.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Correct me if i am wrong. Evans claims credit for coastal commissions actions as member of legislative oversight. Kone slams evans for not attending meetings. Politics as usual?

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Ok, yeah unions, cool. NOT BEING SARCASTIC. My question is; why is the seiu 80k+ into evans? Contract negotiations, contract labor agreements? Furch, then etard (vs carpenter, burned), you know more than anyone here lisa. Be vulnerable and honest, feel the love ; )

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Again its interesting that Barry, Johnathan and Dan are afraid of unions ...

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Yeah, i love it! What is the difference between the commission and the conservancy? Please educate me ; ) what are we all writing about? Isn't the conservancy also state funded? How did kone get it wrong?

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Posted in reply to the post by jenielson:

Yes, you are quite wrong.
Evans has never claimed credit for Coastal Commission actions, although she is has represented Sonoma County on the Commission and is a strong supporter. The current spurious accusations against her are about a different body, the state-funded Coastal Conservancy. As a legislator she was a member of the Legislative Oversight body, which verified the way the Conservancy programs and finances were administered. She performed that job well, according to former Conservancy staff members. She was not concerned with making policy or programmatic decisions, and was not expected to attend meetings.

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This is your stuff. I brought my 4 yr old child to a meeting about electing a county supervisor tonight. Emotion is an important part of parenting!!!

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Posted in reply to the post by jenielson:

I agree that Lynda Hopkins currently lacks the temperament that is needed for a Supervisor, the County's highest elected office. I do hope that she can develop a less shrill response to criticism as she matures. I can attest that maturity, and following better examples, help to damp a tendency toward emotional outbursts. Her children are likely to benefit from that also—mine certainly did!

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https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...23-14-29-1.png

Anyone know how to stop this unethical propaganda, making it appear that I endorse Noreen Evans? Lisa M. did you're techie genius's do this? How can Noreen's camp make it appear that Jennifer Neeley and I endorse Noreen?

Tom Lynch :0P :hmmm:

Ok, just sub commision for conservancy, the question is about campaign claims, credit vs attendance. Sorry for being a bit grouchy. Call me out, i might get a bit more angry. This electoral choice is really important to me. The 5th sup has a lot of power over many aspects of my chosen life.

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Posted in reply to the post by jenielson:

... The current spurious accusations against her are about a different body, the state-funded Coastal Conservancy. ....

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Posted in reply to the post by riverosprey:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...23-14-29-2.png

Anyone know how to stop this unethical propaganda, making it appear that I endorse Noreen Evans? Lisa M. did you're techie genius's do this? How can Noreen's camp make it appear that Jennifer Neeley and I endorse Noreen?

Tom Lynch :0P :hmmm:

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Tom, you must have Liked Noreen's page. Gasp!

Lisa, it is not "bait" to ask polite and specific questions regarding the position that you are paid to express, which is that Sonoma County's pension costs are under control, nothing to worry about, and not a factor in our County's lack of funds to do things like pave roads, provide library hours, or pay a $15 an hour living wage to health care workers who are not among the lucky 1% to have county jobs.

I am probably joined by many of my fellow citizens reading this board in feeling that you are deflecting a basic request for transparency in your argument with allegations that I and others are anti-working people.

Unlike you, Lisa, not one of us is being paid to represent "OUR" members in this public discourse. Yes, we consider ourselves progressives, and environmentalists, and supporters of working people, because we are progressives and environmentalists, and supporters of working people, even if we disagree with the positions that you are paid to promote. We volunteer to work in what we think is the public interest. None of us are stooges of those mythical bosses that you allege are pulling the strings.

Deflection may be a communications strategy, Lisa, but it is not an effective one when it comes to providing transparency and advancing a public discourse such as the one we are trying to have here, about the basic and simple question of whether or not Sonoma County's pension obligations are a problem or not. And if they are, what might be done to address this.

As for your characterization of me and others as being "afraid" of unions, it is another example of deflection that does not help make your case. I know that Barry and Dan join me in an appreciation of unions. What we are afraid of is not unions, but a County that does not have sufficient funds to operate in the future. This does not make us anyone's enemy.

Your argument, that your paid work for the SEIU Union is work on behalf of for ALL workers, and that private industry (which, by definition, employs the 95% of taxpaying workers who support our local government employees) is by nature against workers, is reductive and similarly deflective. All business is not evil. Businesses are employers, and more than 95% of local businesses have a positive impact on our economy.

You do not do your position, the candidates you support, or our sincere attempts for budgetary understanding through transparency, any favors by such deflections and dodges.

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Posted in reply to the post by Lisa Maldonado:

Again its interesting that Barry, Johnathan and Dan are afraid of unions...

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Lisa's frequent disrespectful and boorish posts have likely alienated far more people from her Union cause and the Union's candidate than anything said by her opposition. Stereotypes of Hoffaesque attitudes and tactics counter any feel good efforts like the Kuumbaya Noreen signs her supporters are so delighted by.

Honestly, I believe Lisa has single handedly driven more people to Lynda's camp. I'm amazed her Union bosses haven't reeled her in by now.

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Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan:

...You do not do your position, the candidates you support, or our sincere attempts for budgetary understanding through transparency, any favors by such deflections and dodges.

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Yes, you are quite wrong.
Evans represented Sonoma County on the Commission, as a Santa Rosa City Councilmember, and is a strong supporter. BUT. The current spurious accusations against her are about a different body, the state-funded Coastal Conservancy. As a legislator she was a member of the Legislative Oversight body, which verified the way the Conservancy programs and finances were administered. She performed that job well, according to former Conservancy staff members. She was not concerned with making policy or programmatic decisions, and was not expected to attend meetings.

The interesting thing about the false accusation being circulated is that people are likely to see Coastal Conservancy and think Coastal Commission. That is the clever thing about it—you are intended to make

The point is that the two organizations have very different origins and roles. The Commission is sort of like a Planning Commission for the coast. The Coastal Conservancy "is a State agency established in 1976 to protect and improve natural lands and waterways, help people get to and enjoy the outdoors, and sustain local economies along the length of California’s coast and around San Francisco Bay."

The State legislature gave the Coastal Conservancy a lot of latitude and the oversight committee was established to make sure that all records and processes were conducted properly. Members of the oversight committee were not expected to attend meetings, or weigh in on Conservancy decisions about what lands to protect or how.

Noreen did not attend many meetings, but staff members of that organization said that she always performed her oversight duties ably and well.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Ok, just sub commision for conservancy, the question is about campaign claims, credit vs attendance. Sorry for being a bit grouchy. Call me out, i might get a bit more angry. This electoral choice is really important to me. The 5th sup has a lot of power over many aspects of my chosen life.

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It bothers me that you demand specifics while you invent wild statistics and sprinkle them throughout your own posts. At some point you should take responsibility for your own research.

You represent a group who call themselves 'progressive environmentalists,' but you're politics suggest you are neither of those things.

The "lucky 1% to have county jobs" is a complete inversion of the spirit of the Occupy movement, btw. Your candidate is the so-called "1%" and you are stumping for the wealthy. She owns the means of production. She is a woman of wealth and privilege. She has not earned her status and wealth, she married it.

For all intents and purposes you endorse rich people who believe they are entitled to point to a thing and get it without having to do the work. She wants an oompa loompa now! Your effort to present an inverted reality says a lot about your point of view.

To suggest that the generally moderate salaries and pensions paid to the majority of workers prevent us from providing adequate healthcare to all, fixing roads, increased library hours, and paying a living wage of $15 and hour is some atrocious logic. Corporate for-profit entities rail agains better conditions for workers at every turn, you claim to want workers to have all the stuff that unions ensure, but like your candidate you believe that profiteering business will suddenly decide to supply those benefits? Neighbor, please.

You actually said this: "Businesses are employers, and more than 95% of local businesses have a positive impact on our economy."

Many Republicans share your admiration for corporate 'job creators' (often bad jobs, without benefits, and for less that $15/hour, but jobs nonetheless), but those profit-driven, corporate entities are also dependent on "land use" which usually has negative impact on our environment.

Noreen has stood up to protect Sonoma County from unfettered expansion, resource depletion, and rampant development.

Your candidate says she will serve every interest, everywhere, all the time, when any thoughtful person understands that is simply not possible. Nobody can support unchecked development and subsequent resource depletion in a drought prone area, without screwing over people in these neighborhoods. We all drink the same water.

Maybe ask your neighbors in Occidental (if you live here) what it's like to have to pay to have water trucked in during the summer when their wells run dry--they probably have an opinion about vast vineyard expansion, monoculture, and water tables.

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Posted in reply to the post by Peacetown Jonathan:

Lisa, it is not "bait" to ask polite and specific questions regarding the position that you are paid to express, which is that Sonoma County's pension costs are under control, nothing to worry about, and not a factor in our County's lack of funds to do things like pave roads, provide library hours, or pay a $15 an hour living wage to health care workers who are not among the lucky 1% to have county jobs. ...

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I would give her the benefit of the doubt that she did not hear you, as the answer to your question is not a State Secret. Each Supervisor represents ALL of the residents of their District, not just the unincorporated areas. To allow ONLY the unincorporated areas a vote for District Supervisor, would not be representative Democracy.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

...I met noreen tonight at another posters urging, talked one on one a little, then asked a question in front of everyone; why do city folks get to vote for county supervisors? I have no idea if she heard me since she did not respond... of course i have a guess. Part of which is that lynda would.

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Tangent: I have designated "photolife" as an account to be ignored in this thread, and my life has changed for the better. :waccosmile::waccosmile::waccosmile::waccosmile:

Make logical sense or vanish.

You are so right, Photolite. I should instead emulate yours and other's here's fine excellent example of not calling names and attacking people.

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Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

Lisa's frequent disrespectful and boorish posts have likely alienated far more people from her Union cause and the Union's candidate than anything said by her opposition. Stereotypes of Hoffaesque attitudes and tactics counter any feel good efforts like the Kuumbaya Noreen signs her supporters are so delighted by.

Honestly, I believe Lisa has singlehandedly driven more people to Lynda's camp. I'm amazed her Union bosses haven't reeled her in by now.

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