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Way back in 1979, (before Sebastopol was cool) there were a few members of our commune who, upon contemplating the weekly trip to town to do laundry at Boomers, actually referred to the town as... Sebastopits.
It was kind of a redneckish town back then (or seemed so to us)... My, how things have changed!
Now, the town is much more... Sebastocool :snoopydance:
Tom
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Posted in reply to the post by jimcorbett22:
Unfortunately, most people wouldn't know how to pronouce this.
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Posted in reply to the post by sandoak:
Getting back to the original thread question of whether the "correct" reference for Sebastopol residents is "Sebastopolians" or "Sebastopudlians", I would like to see a better defense from those who advocate the use of "Subastopudlians" than I've seen so far. (BTW, I have no doubt that Larry purposefully started this thread with a clearly mischievous but yet humorous intention to get a controversy going among our controversy-obsessed community, which has not disappointed.)
So far the "Sebastopolian" camp has some solid cred going for it. Clearly the town was named after "Sevastopol" on the Crimean Peninsula in Ukraine because of the that city holding out under a year-long siege, which won many admirers world-wide while it was happening, including, apparently, enough of the residents of this area in west Sonoma County, which at the time was named "Pine Grove", so that they agreed to change the name of their place to be that of a distant Crimean city. (Incidentally, around that same time there were four other towns in California named "Sebastopol", including what is now Yountville, but only our town kept the name over time, perhaps, I suspect -- and this is total speculation -- because of our proximity to the Russian outpost of Fort Ross and local Russian history, which includes the naming of Mt. St. Helena...despite the historical antagonism between Russian and Ukraine). Side note: Sevastopol also held out heroically under Axis (Nazi) attack during World War II.
Nobody contests that there is a clear connection with the name "Sevastopol" and the Greek word for "city" which is "pol" (not "pool"). Translations of the meaning of our town's name vary from "venerable city" to "respected place". But, one might ask, where is the etymological justification for referring to our town as "Sebastopool"? And, therefore, a reference to its residents as "Sebastopudlians"? The "pool" - "pudlian" link is directly connected with Liverpool in England, with "puddle" being a derogatory pun of "pool" by Liverpool's detractors, as was previously noted in the original posting of this thread. (Just look all this up on Google.) So why, I ask, are some Wacco-ites defending an historical pejorative reference to our beloved place?
But, granted, there is a certain intimate, insider familiarity with saying the term "Sebastopudlian". I confess I use the term quite a bit myself. So, I propose this: only locals (and those who are honorary locals) have proper license to refer to Sebastopol residents as Sebastopudlians. It's a self-deprocating but yet endearing term that should be reserved for use by local folks only. And only among ourselves. (I propose this while, at the same time, not intending to create any unfriendly polarity between "insiders" and "outsiders"). It's more like how a family might accept internal deprecating language among each other but not exactly take kindly to others using the same language.
To the world we are "Sebastopolians". And we will defend that term as most San Franciscans bristle at the use of the term "Frisco". (Weighing in on that one: I am a fifth generation-born Bay Area native, with family members who lived in San Francisco for generations. Not to dismiss those who have other direct experience, but in my family it was always considered a sign of a non-native to refer to San Francisco as "Frisco".)
So we are Sebastopolians. If you have earned some local cred (however that is defined) then you may refer to ourselves as Sebastopudlians, without appearing to be somewhat rude. In an endearing and loving way, of course.
Locally yours,
Scott
than S.F. ??? oh, Frisco...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Sereniti:
as part of the english speaking world i doubt there was admiration round here for the russians in sevastopol holding out against the english french turks and whatnot. don't believe the spin on the city site. you don't know what you're writing about. the towns name is a joke during a fistfight, pure and simple. it was told again and again for almost 50 years till incorporation. it's still a joke, so we can say the name however we like. if you don't think its funny reach down deep and pull the pole out : )
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Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown;173966]Getting back to the original thread question of whether the "correct" reference for Sebastopol residents is "Sebastopolians" or "Sebastopudlians", I would like to see a better defense from those who advocate the use of "Subastopudlians" than I've seen so far. (BTW, I have no doubt that Larry purposefully started this thread with a clearly mischievous but yet humorous intention to get a controversy going among our controversy-obsessed community, which has not disappointed.)
So far the "Sebastopolian" camp has some solid cred going for it. Clearly the town was named after "Sevastopol" on the Crimean Peninsula in Ukraine because of the that city holding out under a year-long siege, which won many admirers world-wide while it was happening, including, apparently, enough of the residents of this area in west Sonoma County, which at the time was named "Pine Grove", so that they agreed to change the name of their place to be that of a distant Crimean city. (Incidentally, around that same time there were four other towns in California named "Sebastopol", including what is now Yountville, but only our town kept the name over time, perhaps, I suspect -- and this is [I]total[/I] speculation -- because of our proximity to the Russian outpost of Fort Ross and local Russian history, which includes the naming of Mt. St. Helena...despite the historical antagonism between Russian and Ukraine). Side note: Sevastopol also held out heroically under [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sevastopol_%281941%E2%80%9342%29:
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
Got no disagreement from me about the name coming from a fight and a subsequent joke about it. But there is also some more to it. For example, among many other sources, according to a well-researched paper published in 2009 by John Cummings titled, "The Origin of the Name Sebastopol", which you can read here, there was indeed a considerable amount of local admiration for the Russians holding out against the English and others. Just one example (and from that paper linked above) below is a description of an event in San Francisco celebrating the siege of Sevastopol, with quotes from a correspondent for the Petaluma Journal in 1855:
While everybody enjoyed themselves immensely, the correspondent described the picnic at South Point as being more like “an Irish Fair.” “Torn coats, black eyes and bloody noses were prominent and wine bottles, loaves of bread and fowl flew around among the combatants.” “A roast chicken struck Council Dillon in the breast.” The activity at the picnic occurred among the flags of the participants. The picnic event committee apologized to the guests in the San Francisco morning paper for the actions of the picnic celebrants, and the apologetic article also stated that a crowd of at least 5,000 people had carried American and Russian flags and to show their sympathy for the Russians by marching to the residence of the Russian consulate and his family in San Francisco. (The estimate of 5,000 people was a very large crowd considering that the stated crowd was about one tenth of the entire population of San Francisco at the time.)Incidentally, if there was no admiration for the Russians holding out round here then why were three other Northern California towns named Sebastopol right around that same time? Were there multiple coincidental fights and jokes with no connection whatsoever to the Russian city that was so prominent in the news at that time?
All this is really beside the point. I'm still waiting for an explanation of the source of the pronunciation "SebastoPOOL" (and with it the Liverpudlian pun reference to a puddle). It's agreed that local legend has it that the town name came from a fight. (Can’t yet find confirmation it was a bar fight, but that would seem to make sense if there was a bar here at that time.) Regardless, it still confirms the name coming from the Russian (at the time) city of Sevastopol, because, as the story goes, one of the fight combatants held out in a store and the joke referenced the holding out as in the siege of Sevastopol. But it's still "SebastoPOL,” with the Greek root word "pol" (or "polis") for "city".
So I'm just curious, where does the "pool" come from? Is it simply a mispronounced colloquialism that spontaneously emerged at some point in the past? (With apparently some rather ardent local supporters still today.) Or is there some other reason for it?
I'll go with mispronounced colloquialism...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
I've lived in the west county for 22+ years, and have for most of that time, in mid-winter, jokingly referred to it as Sebastopuddle. Like I said before, it depends on the season.:wink:
perhaps the area was waccoland then too. the irish rioted in boston against the civil war draft and there were many here who supported succession before during and after the civil war. it is a natural human repugnance to those who enforce authority and spout correctness. this pidgin lingo we try to communicate with is new and evolving in our own lifetimes. while it is wise to know as many forms of it as possible, it is classicist, racist, natavist and ignorant to insist on proper form. why do we dismiss the language of others? why make them less than?
so the word is that the new post office at the crossroads, the general store where one party took refuge from saloon fisticuffs and was shielded by the proprietor, had been labeled pinegrove. this was institutionally confusing as there were other pinegrove po,s in norcal. the joke spread widely enough so that the new label, (the name of the retreating person) sebastopol, was the best way to get the mail delivered. why pool? perhaps it depends on where you came from and who you identify with, as well as how much you are in touch with the need to play : )
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Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown: