Coronavirus: "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

Barry, I really am interested to know your response to my question.

Though it's only a sample of one, I want to know if exposure to the work of all/most the people I listed, easily available with a click, can NOT have a very significant impact in shifting someone from the usual consensual reality, airtightly established as the medical model via ostensibly western science.

Note that I like science very much, but have noticed the pattern of burning those who push against the currently accepted models. Especially if there's BIG money involved.

Here and now, money (BILLIONS OF DOLLARS) is pervasive throughout the system, in every conceivable angle, so that has to be looked at and weighed in, especially since it's usually invisible / behind-the-scenes to everyone outside the system. US is infamous for the most expensive system with the sickest citizens.

So, Barry, again,
what have you watched, listened to, read, considered of the list below, and (how) has it influenced your thinking?

Thanks, Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered....

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Further, that’s the age that autism symptoms generally start.

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

Coincidence does not prove causation. There is one chance in 365 per year that autism symptoms will develop the day after a vaccination. What pray tell is the mechanism? Where, pay tell, are the *peer reviewed* statistical studies showing a higher incidence of autism shortly after vaccination? And I don't need no fucking YouTube videos, thank you very much.

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Adverse effects from vaccines are very difficult to report, and even more difficult to prove. The vaccine court system is set up this way. This is a system which protects vaccine developers and distributors from liability. This is not conspiracy theory. Its just the way the vaccine liability legal system is set up.

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

..In addition, adverse effects of vaccines (and all medications) must be reported to the national regulatory authority (the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S.). If warranted by post-approval data, the FDA will revoke a vaccine's (or other medicine's) approval...

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The attached PDF examines shortcomings in the methods by which vaccines are made and tested. This info is derived from public and official documents and testimony

What is crazy about pro vaccine people is that they cannot be satisfied with ingesting them for themselves their pets and over fed children. They want you to have it also. As it stands most people are hostile to having a needle put into their arm and if they had to get the pinch then you should too. Be that as it may vaccines are poison. Some people can take in poison and live. If it is small enough dose there is literally no effect. But when you mandate that a baby be injected with these poisons this is when we get into mischief.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

Adverse effects from vaccines are very difficult to report, and even more difficult to prove. ...

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Polio has been eradicated from the US since 1979. https://www.cdc.gov/polio/what-is-polio/polio-us.html

There are 3 countries where polio still occurs: Afghanistan, Nigeria, and Pakistan. https://www.contagionlive.com/news/n...9-up-from-2018

The global incidence of polio has dropped by 99% since 1988, when the Global Polio Eradication Initiative was instituted. https://www.contagionlive.com/news/n...9-up-from-2018

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

What's the polio rate these days?

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Apparently, vaccines developed from human cell lines are much more likely to cause autism. Not so with vaccines developed from animal lines, which the body recognizes and rejects, thereby eliminating DNA disruption in cell linkages leading to autism. http://sonorannews.com/2017/07/03/va...mpt-liability/

Seems like the thing to do is to eliminate vaccines being developed from human cell lines.

I finally got around to searching the article you linked to for *polio*. Polio is mentioned three times, money quote is here:

"A vaccine was also the solution for polio, which caused few deaths compared to many other diseases, but many cases of paralysis. For other diseases, though, vaccines mostly came along late in the game and mopped up what was left after improved sanitation and hygiene had done most of the work."

Here is an excerpt from the Wikipedia article on the history of polio -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_polio

Prior to the 20th century polio infections were rarely seen in infants before 6 months of age and most cases occurred in children 6 months to 4 years of age.^[19] Young children who contract polio generally suffer only mild symptoms, but as a result they become permanently immune to the disease.^[20] In developed countries during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, improvements were being made in community sanitation, including improved sewage disposal and clean water supplies. Better hygiene meant that infants and young children had fewer opportunities to encounter and develop immunity to polio. Exposure to poliovirus was therefore delayed until late childhood or adult life, when it was more likely to take the paralytic form.^[19]

In children, paralysis due to polio occurs in one in 1000 cases, while in adults, paralysis occurs in one in 75 cases.^[21] By 1950, the peak age incidence of paralytic poliomyelitis in the United States had shifted from infants to children aged 5 to 9 years; about one-third of the cases were reported in persons over 15 years of age.^[22] Accordingly, the rate of paralysis and death due to polio infection also increased during this time.^[1] In the United States, the 1952 polio epidemic was the worst outbreak in the nation's history, and is credited with heightening parents’ fears of the disease and focusing public awareness on the need for a vaccine.^[23] Of the 57,628 cases reported that year 3,145 died and 21,269 were left with mild to disabling paralysis.<sup>[23][24]

It appears to me that you did not read the article carefully, and hence came to what I called a nonsensical conclusion regarding polio.</sup>

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Posted in reply to the post by Chauncey Gardner:

Historical data has proven that polio was actually conquered by the advent of hand washing and sanitation practices. Perhaps there is some other Vaccine that you can point to that is some how worthwhile Barry. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp

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Finell wrote:

"What is crazy about anti-vax conspiracy theories is this: If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice. In addition, adverse effects of vaccines (and all medications) must be reported to the national regulatory authority (the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S.). If warranted by post-approval data, the FDA will revoke a vaccine's (or other medicine's) approval. If adverse effects are limited to a specific population (e.g., individuals with chronic kidney disease), the FDA will take action to protect the vulnerable population.

Almost everyone in the developed world was vaccinated against smallpox. They did not die or suffer injury. Almost everyone in the developed world is vaccinated against measles, mumps, and rubella. These vaccine recipients are not dying in the streets. Millions upon millions of people are vaccinated against the flu each year. Because of the way flu viruses mutate, a new flu vaccine is developed each year. Millions of people do not die from it. Thousands of people do not die from it.

Fortunately for all of us—including, ironically, the anti-vaxers—most people are neither ignorant, stupid, nor gullible enough to believe crackpot anti-vax conspiracy theories."

Get that? - "If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice."

The public does notice. I suggest that you-all look into the vast documented Evidence - the miles and miles of accumulated footage of testimonies from the Mothers of Children who have been seriously and irreparably damaged by Vaccinations. To say, "If vaccines were so deadly or broadly injurious, the public would notice..." is beyond ludicrous. It is a lie.

Here's the "EVIDENCE" :

VAXXED !! ( 1 )

VAXXED !! ( 2 )

VAXXED TV
- (the Queue @ youtube)

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Posted in reply to the post by Chauncey Gardner:

What is crazy about pro vaccine people is that they cannot be satisfied with ingesting them for themselves their pets and over fed children. They want you to have it also..

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it's not at all 'crazy'. You may disagree, but it's totally logical. Sure, if you personally are vaccinated it improves your immunity. However, the theory is that if an unvaccinated population remains they can serve as a host for the virus. Unless personal immunity is bumped to 100% it's not just a personal choice. A choice to be vaccinated is primarily a societal choice, which Americans are notoriously poor at making. Live free and die!

Hey, Ignoring TWO inquiries, OK, I get it - you don't want to answer.

Anyone care to respond to my question? Interested, Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Barry, I really am interested to know your response to my question.

Though it's only a sample of one, I want to know if exposure to the work of all/most the people I listed, easily available with a click, can NOT have a very significant impact in shifting someone from the usual consensual reality, airtightly established as the medical model via ostensibly western science.

Note that I like science very much, but have noticed the pattern of burning those who push against the currently accepted models. Especially if there's BIG money involved.

Here and now, money (BILLIONS OF DOLLARS) is pervasive throughout the system, in every conceivable angle, so that has to be looked at and weighed in, especially since it's usually invisible / behind-the-scenes to everyone outside the system. US is infamous for the most expensive system with the sickest citizens.

So, Barry, again,
what have you watched, listened to, read, considered of the list below, and (how) has it influenced your thinking?

Thanks, Jude

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Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered...

Dr. Dolores Cahill

Dr. Buttar

Dr. Shiva

R.F. Kennedy Jr.

Del Bigtree

Dr. Judy Mikovits

James Corbett on Gates, etc.

Dr. Christiane Northrup

Dr. Zach Bush

Dr. Francis Boyle

Michel Chossudovsky

Interested in your response, Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

it's not at all 'crazy'. You may disagree, but it's totally logical. Sure, if you personally are vaccinated it improves your immunity. However, the theory is that if an unvaccinated population remains they can serve as a host for the virus. Unless personal immunity is bumped to 100% it's not just a personal choice. A choice to be vaccinated is primarily a societal choice, which Americans are notoriously poor at making. Live free and die!

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So there are only two settings, vaccinated and unvaccinated. Unvaxxed folks all have identical lack of immunity. Vaccinating is the only way to gain immunity. You are a four-year-old.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

So there are only two settings, vaccinated and unvaccinated. Unvaxxed folks all have identical lack of immunity. Vaccinating is the only way to gain immunity. You are a four-year-old.

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and you can't read - I didn't say any of that. neener neener.

There is another way to to gain immunity: become infected with SARS-CoV-2. Until a vaccine is available, becoming infected is the only way to become immune.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

Vaccinating is the only way to gain immunity.

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

There is another way to to gain immunity: become infected with SARS-CoV-2...

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I don't think that's been anything more than a working assumption at this point.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

I don't think that's been anything more than a working assumption at this point.

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Anything that improves your immunity, then, is a "societal choice," but vaccination is the only one you really know about, so you're proselytizing about it as if it were special and not riddled with fraud. "Live free and die"? I'm pretty sure I heard you fine.

Yeah, you can upregulate your immune system intelligently with nutrients, "get" the virus, and kill it. If you have sufficient zinc and D3 you are almost impregnable. If the CDC recommends vaccination without also recommending D3 and zinc among others, it is lying to you. Or maybe you don't need essential nutrients.

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

There is another way to to gain immunity: become infected with SARS-CoV-2. ...

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No, Finell, becoming infected means that your immune system has lost its fight with the virus. You can be exposed and develop immunity without becoming infected.

That is what vaccines purport to do, and since I'm talking to an audience who doesn't care about the risks of vaccination, you might consider that beefing your immune system and letting it be exposed, is just a touch more common sense than waiting for some billion-dollar industry to manufacture a product to do exactly the same thing, especially when that product will be totally useless against viruses that mutate.

If you are confident enough to say, "If you have sufficient zinc and D3 you are almost impregnable," and confident enough to say, "If the CDC recommends vaccination without also recommending D3 and zinc among others, it is lying to you," you would do humanity a great service by putting your confidence to the only real test. Otherwise, talk is cheap.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

... If you have sufficient zinc and D3 you are almost impregnable. If the CDC recommends vaccination without also recommending D3 and zinc among others, it is lying to you. ...

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You are asking too much of the immune system. You cannot expect the immune system, by itself, to protect you from a pathogen unless the immune system has already made antibodies to combat that pathogen. Normally, you acquire immunity, at least for a period of time, from the first infection. Vaccines work by stimulating the immune system to create antibodies that the first infection would normally create.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

No, Finell, becoming infected means that your immune system has lost its fight with the virus.

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And the jury is still out on how long that immunity lasts. https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-immunity/

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

You are asking too much of the immune system. ...

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Um, I am putting it to the test, Finell, and it's working wonderfully. I also have backups like nanosilver in case I do get infected.

"Asking too much of the immune system" - we are both asking the immune system to respond, whether to a virus in a vaccine, or one in the air. It makes no difference which it is. The idea that a starved immune system can be vaccinated into health is absurd. That's how people end up brain damaged. They're injected with a load of toxins their body can't handle because they were malnourished to begin with.

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

And the jury is still out on how long that immunity lasts. https://www.wired.com/story/covid-19-immunity/

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So then presumed immunity from vaccines would also not last, so the only option remaining to humanity is - wait for it - a yearly vaccine! Or, a vaccine which permanently rewrites your DNA and cellular functioning! Or, a combination of the two!

$ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $

For those of you who feel that data is not being censored, do me a favor and search "hydrochloroquine success" on Google and then search the phrase on Duck Duck Go. Compare the two results and get back to me.

LOL! That's the spirit...:welcome:

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

and you can't read - I didn't say any of that. neener neener.

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Ann Rice fans have discovered that drinking the blood of virus carriers gives them immunity.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/05/...t-coronavirus/

I have a question because I don't know any better. I am not a doctor or a lawyer. I do have a master's in political science so, those are my credentials, if applicable.

Getting a vaccination is the same as getting infected, right? Because that is how it works. A weakened or otherwise controlled version of the microorganism is deliberately introduced into your body to create immunity. That is my limited understanding of how vaccines and immunity work, to the best of my limited knowledge.

I'm distressed by the widespread conspiracy theory that vaccines are a bad thing. I understand some of the reasoning: That big pharma is an evil, profiteering sector of society and does not truly care about the public's health, not nearly as much as making a profit. It is a convincing argument, I know, but different things are being conflated. Yes, it's true, the profit motive is very corrosive. But we are in a dilemma where we need to trust dishonest actors. That is a difficult bind to put anyone in.

But this does not mean that a future vaccine is still a bad thing if it is demonstrated that it works. I will take the future corona virus vaccine. It's just a matter of time. This confluence of urgent medical need, the avarice of capitalism and profit, and trust v. mistrust is a tragic event in the early 21st century. Hopefully, healthcare will be completely socialized in the U.S. as it is in all other post-industrialized democracies.

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

There is another way to to gain immunity: become infected with SARS-CoV-2. Until a vaccine is available, becoming infected is the only way to become immune.

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I think that a vaccine created ethically is not a bad thing. Problem is -

a) Big Pharma is careless and bits of the animal parts used in vaccine making can get into the vaccine with unpredictable results.

b) Big Pharma is not only careless but malfeasant. Example - their witting profit making hyper-distribution of Fentanyl and other preparations into black market channels, preparations that can easily be converted into addicting black market drugs. Addiction is the perfect market and an asset to any company's bottom line.

c) The idea of linking vaccination to various privileges such as airline travel, license granting, welfare benefits, etc., is coercive

d) The linking of vaccine refusal to draconian measures including removal of children from families, prison or other penalties is a stepping stone to a police state.

e) The suppression of protest against medical measures as the beginning of martial law.

f) The demonization of protesting factions into the creation of hysteria and a lynch mob mentality.

g) The ugly specter that Covid 19 was artificially produced as a weapon of low intensity cultural conflict by vehicles of crypto-Nazi geopolitics. You think the spirit of Josef Mengele died in a Brazilian swimming pool in 1979?

Anyone who finds it difficult to imagine a neo-fascist game plan for world domination and the creation of a Brave New World, 1984, THX1138 society, should really do a bit of homework on how those slimy Wall St./Bank of England Social Darwinist goose stepping oligarch bastards at the top of the food chain actually operate. A hint of their modus operandi can be gleaned from a search on "Arthur de Gobineau',.

Then begin your odyssey of illumination with the 1975 Senate Church Committee hearings into CIA skulduggery into the control of populations with a side trip to the London Tavistock Institute, The Royal Institute of International Affairs, Alfred Milner's Round Table, The Coefficients Club, and just for giggles, The Hellfire Club, an early version of Epstein Island. And, feel free to drop by my personal conspiracy web page, Psyops - www.walteralter.com/psyops.htm, for a synopsis of 50 years of anti-tin foil hat conspiracy research.

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Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:

I have a question because I don't know any better....

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Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:

I have a question because I don't know any better...

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The problem isn't being exposed to an attenuated virus, it's the fact that vaccines inexplicably contain mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, cancer viruses, DNA fragments, and a lot of other things that form a synergistic cocktail of toxins, which cause mass brain damage and death every year, unreported. I have a friend who had a common "catastrophic event" following a tetanus vaccine; he now lives in constant pain, has memory problems, cannot listen to loud sounds or look at bright lights, sleeps 15 hours a day, and his flesh turns necrotic in subfreezing temperatures. He like others was trusting of pharmaceutical medicine, and now his life is in many senses ruined.

You don't drink the blood. However, a vaccine can be made from the antibodies in the blood plasma of individuals who had been infected by the target pathogen. The vaccine can confer immunity if injected. Clinical trials beginning March 2020 included vaccine candidates derived from infected persons' plasma.

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

Ann Rice fans have discovered that drinking the blood of virus carriers gives them immunity.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

Um, I am putting it to the test, Finell, and it's working wonderfully. I also have backups like nanosilver in case I do get infected....

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Well said, Amayon. I also am putting my immune system to the test -and bolstering it with a healthy spread of vitamins, minerals & herbs. I am also gargling with Baking Soda - daily - just as my wise old grandma from Flatbush was very forward to instruct me to do when I was only four years old. She made a point of teaching that to me and I will never forget the account of her experience during the Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1918-1919.

Once again, Lest you forget that there are other options {than A.M.A. / C.D.C. / F.D.A. / Pharma - approved drugs & vaccines) - than waiting for the Messiah to come in the form of a shot. I would encourage WacoBBians to search the large body of material -with references- on alternative modalities that I have been able to assemble over on this other thread:

Electro-therapy, Colloidal Silver-Water, Baking Soda, & Herbs...

"Almost all conspiracy theories can be dispelled by applying the principle known as Hanlon's Razor: "Do not attribute to malice that which is more easily explained by stupidity."

"However, I admit to having my own conspiracy theory, and you may feel free to use it.

"For hundreds of billions of years, in fact, from the birth of time, every black hole at the center of each galaxy, the gravity of every gazing star, each hydrocarbon and chloroplast, each photon of sunlight, atom of breath, and even shy colors like brown and green in the meadow, have been conspiring to guide me to this very moment, when I have no choice but to fall in the dust on my knees, to spread toward wind and sky my arms, useless as they are as wings, and here confess: 'I don't know what the fuck is going on!'

"And only now am I capable of praying, 'Forgive me. I love you. Thank you. I'm sorry.'"

—by Fred LaMotte

Of course you don't drink the blood. That was a test probe for sense of humor..

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

You don't drink the blood. ...

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Hanlon is not as great an observer of human nature as he might be had he applied an even stronger analytical framework based upon the question - Who benefits?

Nonetheless, it still comes down to stupidity, IMO.

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

Hanlon is not as great an observer of human nature as he might be had he applied an even stronger analytical framework based upon the question - Who benefits?

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Around here, it is impossible to distinguish sarcasm from ignorance and delusion.

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

Of course you don't drink the blood. That was a test probe for sense of humor..

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Big Pharma Spokesman Secretly Filmed
Saying Vaccines Cause Autism

May 23, 2017 Baxter Dmitry

Big Pharma spokesman Paul Offit, known for telling the public that vaccines are totally safe, has been caught on camera admitting that vaccines causes autism.

Paul Offit, prominent vaccine spokesman, is so indebted to Big Pharma that even mainstream media have reported qualms about taking his word for anything medicine-related.

Offit makes a comfortable living as a pediatrician specializing in infectious diseases, and has an even more lucrative sideline as a self-described “expert” on vaccines, spruiking Big Pharma’s wares through the mainstream media

Expert? A more accurate term would be salesman.
He is known for refuting each and every claim against vaccines, and refusing to hear a bad word said about Big Pharma’s most profitable product line. One of his famous lines involved stating that it’s perfectly safe for children to receive 1,000 vaccinations at once.

But now we have secretly filmed footage of Paul Offit slipping and and revealing his true understanding of the link between autism and vaccines. Watch and see for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2cH...ature=emb_logo

In other words, Big Pharma and their pro-vaccination shills have been lying to the public. They have bought out the mainstream media, who now act as attack dogs, rabidly demanding everybody toe the line – or else they will be savaged.

Do not underestimate the power of the mainstream media’s ability to publicly shame people. There is no greater creator of ignorant groupthink. People are terrified to go against the grain of what appears to be mainstream opinion.

By stating that the MMR vaccine does not cause autism, they have been misleading you. As Paul Offit admits, the relationship between the MMR vaccine and autism is not clear-cut, black and white, and easily dismissed, as mainstream media have been telling you it is.

Paul Offit famously said it was safe for a child to receive 1,000 vaccinations at once. Given the insight we now have about him thanks to the secretly filmed footage, it’s safe to say his 1,000 vaccinations comment was probably a misleading, media-friendly soundbite that shouldn’t be taken seriously either.

Our children deserve better than a media dominated by money-hungry shills employed by Big Pharma, intent on pushing products without giving parents real information about their true nature.

"... more easily explained by stupidity." HARDLY.

cui bono - cui bo·​no | \ ˈkwē-ˈbō-(ˌ)nō

Definition of cui bono

1: a principle that probable responsibility for an act or event lies with one having something to gain

2: usefulness or utility as a principle in estimating the value of an act or policy

First Known Use of cui bono. 1604, in the meaning defined at sense 1

History and Etymology for cui bono -- Latin, to whose advantage?

Barbara, you and Fred can Ha'Oponopono all you like, it's not going to stave off the future that's been planned and is playing out now.

To be worthy of a handle like wisewomn, since you/he acknowledge that you don't know "what the fuck is going on", studying and awakening highly recommended, ASAP.

It takes sustained effort to actually read and watch and listen, lots and lots. Yes, it takes time and focus.
Then there is facing that darkness; emotional fortitude is required. Very few can and will and do.
But if you do want to know what the fuck is going on, that's what you do.
Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

"Almost all conspiracy theories can be dispelled by applying the principle known as Hanlon's Razor: "Do not attribute to malice that which is more easily explained by stupidity."...

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I would have thought that a certain professionalism came along with owning/managing this website, and that would have included a response to a respectful question. It's revealing that you choose not to respond, Barry - not in a particularly good way.
Somewhat surprising that no one else has either, though likely the fear of the stigma of being tarred with the "conspiracy" brush, 'step out o line and the man come and take you away'...
And it's only beginning. Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Hey, Ignoring TWO inquiries, OK, I get it - you don't want to answer.

Anyone care to respond to my question? Interested, Jude

Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered...

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

I would have thought that a certain professionalism came along with owning/managing this website, ...

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It's a great list, some I've heard of, some I haven't, and yes, it's pathetic that Barry doesn't respond; Northern California is unfortunately a cult of cowardly, groupthinking sheeple, who are not going to get the message until it's probably too late, and then they're going to wimper and sob and beg to be saved.

I learned a long time ago not to waste time or breath on drum-beaters and True Believers, Jude.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

"... more easily explained by stupidity." HARDLY.
...

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

I would have thought that a certain professionalism came along with owning/managing this website, and that would have included a response to a respectful question. It's revealing that you choose not to respond, Barry - not in a particularly good way.

Somewhat surprising that no one else has either, though likely the fear of the stigma of being tarred with the "conspiracy" brush, 'step out o line and the man come and take you away'...
And it's only beginning. Jude

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You are not going to get a whole lot of analysis out of our moderator, Judith. -Nor are you very likely to persuade him to read anything. He is just too busy. This is what his response is to everything that disturbs his little reality bubble:

Barry Says - and I quote:

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Fans of conspiracy theories see them everywhere! (Actually, Finell is just one of my sockpuppets :anon:)
:abduct:

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By the way Barry, Pleez do not delete the gif of the UFO that beams down to beam up the bouncing yellow ball, a la PacMan. It is precious.

https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Jude Iam wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
"... more easily explained by stupidity." HARDLY.

cui bono - cui bo·​no | \ ˈkwē-ˈbō-(ˌ)nō

Definition of cui bono

1: a principle that probable responsibility for an act or event lies with one having something to gain

2: usefulness or utility as a principle in estimating the value of an act or policy

First Known Use of cui bono. 1604, in the meaning defined at sense 1

History and Etymology for cui bono -- Latin, to whose advantage?

Barbara, you and Fred can Ha'Oponopono all you like, it's not going to stave off the future that's been planned and is playing out now.

To be worthy of a handle like wisewomn, since you/he acknowledge that you don't know "what the fuck is going on", studying and awakening highly recommended, ASAP.

It takes sustained effort to actually read and watch and listen, lots and lots. Yes, it takes time and focus.
Then there is facing that darkness; emotional fortitude is required. Very few can and will and do.
But if you do want to know what the fuck is going on, that's what you do.
Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:

I learned a long time ago not to waste time or breath on drum-beaters and True Believers, Jude.

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So, evidently, wisewomn, you do concede that your mind is one that is closed? Ne c'est pas?

I advocate the Method of Open-mindedness. As St. Paul wrote, “…there are many voices in the world, and none (of them) are without significance...” On the practical level, this is a mandate to Read everything, and to weigh it all in the balances of what Buddha called “Right Mindfulness.” That is the reason I have created such Verbal Sculptures as the following :

!

o

"Coronavirus, Covid-19 , "lab" , "bio-weapon""

(Web Search)
o
* Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar *
@ the foot of the page

Read
!


--It is because one must be open to “truth” from all quarters. To be able to do this, one must be ready to study, study, study. In the process of which, one shall verily encounter a multitude of lies and disinformation along the way. –All of which one must process.

-And, in order to do that, One must exercise the use of the proper philosophical tools to sift out the lies from that which is Actual & Real. The word for Truth in the Koinonia Greek of the New Testament, ἀλήθεια, has the essential meaning: 'the uncovering of that-which-is' = essentially the Same meaning embodied in the concept of Buddhist Suchness
!

So, What are the proper philosophical tools that one needs to keep in one’s mental toolbox? I suggest that folks look into the “Four Ko-Ti's” of Buddhist Logic, and the “Phenomenological Method” of Heidegger and Husserl – for they are essentially the same methodology / modality; one Eastern, one Western.

Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:

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1. (If A is B), A is B

2. A cannot be both B and not B

3. A is either B or not B

4. A is neither B nor not B

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

You are not going to get a whole lot of analysis out of our moderator, Judith. -Nor are you very likely to persuade him to read anything. He is just too busy. This is what his response is to everything that disturbs his little reality bubble:

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I'm ready to read certain things, such as the article Chauncey Gardener cited, and completely got wrong, with regard to polio. Most of the stuff you guys link is utter bullshit and I'm not going to dirty my mind with it.

What say Chauncey, any more thoughts on polio?

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

It's a great list, some I've heard of, some I haven't, and yes, it's pathetic that Barry doesn't respond; Northern California is unfortunately a cult of cowardly, groupthinking sheeple, who are not going to get the message until it's probably too late, and then they're going to wimper and sob and beg to be saved.

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good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

"Easily available with a click", you said somewhere. Now that is some serious research. Yes Barry, why don't you read or listen to every posting of some asinine crap on the internet that satisfies someone's idea of "what's really happening"? You've clearly been brainwashed or wait, what, are you part of the cabal after all, a mole, sent to Sonoma County to control the narrative? Come clean.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Hey, Ignoring TWO inquiries, OK, I get it - you don't want to answer.

Anyone care to respond to my question? Interested, Jude...

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Plandemic and the Meme-O-Sphere

Now, as you may have noticed, things have ticked up a couple of notches in the meme-o-sphere into flat out batshit crazy (that’s a statistical term if you’re unfamiliar). You might have heard about/watched that new “documentary” Plandemic. In a bizarre turn of events, we happen to know Mikki Willis (the director and interviewer) fairly well––as his crew shot a short film of Flow Genome Project teaching at Esalen (which if you play backwards at 1.5 X speed, reveals that we are actually an Illuminati training front for the Templars ;).

Since then, his editorial tastes have strangely skewed towards plumbing the deepest of rabbit holes, and judging by the viral uptake of this latest piece, so have millions of people around the world. You can check here for a solid overview of what is making this current crisis so utterly bewildering to so many.

And here for an actual data driven analysis of how that particular Plandemic film made its way through the recesses of the ‘net.

It’s interesting to note how our information ecology is super jacked up right now, and everyone from well-intentioned seekers of “truth” to chaos-inducing state and non-state actors are all, to borrow a phrase from the philosopher Steve Bannon “flooding the zone with shit.”

But that’s not what we’re exploring today.

What we’re exploring today sits at the intersection of neuroscience and psychology––namely, why are we all so suddenly susceptible to such enormous amounts of hogwash???

Why Are We Collectively Losing Our Minds?

To be sure––there are all the geopolitical actors, tech platform algorithms, fringe conspiracy theorists, etc. muddying things up almightily––but these seeds are landing in extra especially fertile soil in our minds right now––and here’s why.

Our little amygdalas, oxytocin and dopamine.

Given that we’ve been locked in our houses and glued to our seats for the past two months, it’s fair to say that our amygdalas––our threat detection systems––have been on super high alert. It really has mattered what’s going on in other countries, other states, even other counties––so our impulse to stay on top of every breaking news item, every hot-take, every “expert opinion” has skyrocketed.

In the olden days––we would’ve been listening to the jungle drums, smoke signals and village gossip––now it’s morphed into Facebook and Instagram posts, YouTube binge watches and Whatsapp groups. We’re all desperate to get a handle on what might save us or kill us.

Each time we listen to that amygdala alarm clock and find something that Stanford’s Robert Sapolsky calls “salient”––meaning it might make us or break us––we get a strong squirt of dopamine. Even if the news is shitty, it perversely feels good to have found it. Plug that “like”, click or view into Big Tech optimization algorithms, and we’re off on the ride of our lives.

But a funny thing happens when we get too much dopamine in our systems...

We succumb to Apophenia.

It's the tendency to perceive patterns and meaning between otherwise unconnected events and facts.
It shows up in early onset schizophrenia and...you guessed it, in conspiracy theorists.
That’s not all. Especially when we’re all cooped up, separated from each other, unable to hug, kiss, and hang with our friends and family––our oxytocin levels plummet. This leaves us less trusting, more suspicious, more tribal and prone to paranoia.

In the paper Oxytocin, Dopamine, and the Amygdala: A Neurofunctional Model of Social Cognitive Deficits in Schizophrenia, they lay it out:

“It is hypothesized that aberrant interactions between dopaminergic reward systems, a dysfunctional amygdala, and the neurohormone oxytocin engender a neural milieu that improperly assigns emotional salience to environmental stimuli. This deficit in turn results in aberrant social cognition that may ultimately lead to misguided social responses, from withdrawal and isolation to suspicion and paranoia”

What now?

So what to do about all of this “aberrant social cognition” (that’s the street term for ‘batshit crazy’)?
Well, not entirely sure at this point, other than to say...

• Love (and hug) the ones you’re with (it will return your oxytocin to healthy, pro-social levels)
  
• Trust (but verify) all information you’re consuming (start with the two links we mentioned above) and realize that Bayesian Probability weighting is your friend when trying to parse complex and ambiguous data sets
  
• Criticize by Creating (Michelangelo) There’s no shortage of things to gripe about and not much time to get things right #stayawakeandbuildstuff. .
  
• Above all, be kind (Aldous Huxley). Because at the end of the day, if we miss this part, what on earth do we have to fight for or look forward to?

That’s it for this week folks––just had a rad day in the wave park surfing with some great friends and my son (the waves were all evenly spaced six feet apart so don’t worry :wink:

Hope you now have some fascinating cocktail party conversation for you next Zoom Quarantini sesh.
When the subject of conspiracy theories comes up (and it will)...you’ll have your Big Thinky guns a-blazing.
Continues here

hey, jaime - so asking for material to be reviewed as the basis of the complex medical/economic/political/(dare i say it?!) spiritual reality we find ourselves navigating is just asking too much? "Now that is some serious research." Yep, I find this topic COMPELLING since it is determining my/our lives and the entire course of HISTORY.

Have you taken in the breadth of what's being said, by people who've been working for decades in their fields? How much have you really looked into what's going on?

It's complex and fascinating, learning along with the scientists, clinicians, investigative journalists, authors.

While you - and most - eye veering away from the official narrative as looney, those of us who've committed some time and effort to "serious research", we've found A LOT. Of course you'll dismiss it all. Though you could not refute the science nor discredit the documented incidents, etc., etc.

JUST COINCIDENCE. NO CONFLICT of INTEREST. No chance of bioweapon. Nor pattern of control. Global surveillance systems tracking EVERYONE small businesses bought by biggest players trillions corporate bailouts as poverty and misery pervasive. Climate unaddressed. Peoples uprisings quelled.
I do not view capitalism USA 2020 as kind, as turning towards utopia rather than dystopia. I really wish I could feel cheerful. I don't.

Anyway, I'm just paranoid schitzy ditzy. or have "“aberrant social cognition” (that’s the street term for ‘batshit crazy’)
and definitely need loads more oxytocin. YES.

AND, I, and a few others, ARE doing some serious research.

You, I take it, have formed your conclusions on the basis of Fauci and Cuomo and Newsom, right? And news and interviews on NBC, CBS, Democracy Now, NPR, where else...?

You are grateful to take the vaccine or whatever will be needed, soon as it's safely available, yes?
We should all have the vaccine passports, yes? and infrared mark that shows we got the shot. the first shot. No prob.

I think that's the basic dichotomy.
Pray tell us. Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by oldbaldman:

"Easily available with a click", you said somewhere. Now that is some serious research....

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. ...

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The sources are limited to you because you read them with a limited attention span or none at all. Nobody is trying to make you submit to anything, but you have explicitly said vaccination is everyone's responsibility and that to "live free is to die." Plumb Jude's list with an interest in reality and learn why you're a fool.

Meme-O-Sphere, noosphere, paranoidosphere, bloposphere...yep, ideas tell us how to move our mouths and that bio-mental self-circus pretty much dictates our unnatural nature. It's an inner mud wrestling scuffle between perceptual input and feedback loops. Perceptual input is new data which is pretty inevitable being that we exist in time and all - new data is going to suffuse your next ten minutes like it or not. Feedback loops, or "foops", to use the medical dictionary term, do not like new data. Foops are basically little Energizer Bunnies that hate time and hate space - any space outside the imagined space that contains our thoughts. And foops have the irritating habit of self-magnification. So you can go from a state of mild vexation to lynch mob before you know it, in fact, always before you know it. Foopery actually is the fabled state of unknowing that the sages have warned us against these many centuries. Is the foop amygdalic at its core? Damned straight. That's where all them trauma memories are stored with a neuron trunk line straight to the reptile brain. You put a meme in a foop trunk line and you got a bot, an automaton, whose critical facilities reside at the virus level stamping out the helixes like Pay Day candy bars over at Wonka Industries. If the foop is your Pay Day then woe betide thee. Place your effort, and your extra effort as well as your supra effort and meta effort and, yes, even your elusive transcendental effort (which includes the elusive holy wish and the elusive holy wish alone), at foop avoidance. Feel your face at all times. May the ringing in your ears consume you while letting your knowledge teach your being instead of the meme saturated other way around. Nay the foop. That is the sum of my wisdom in the tick tock dimension.

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Posted in reply to the post by oldbaldman:

Plandemic and the Meme-O-Sphere
...

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"Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered..."

Dr. Dolores Cahill

Dr. Rashid Buttar

Dr. V.A. Shiva Ayyadurai

Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Del Bigtree

Dr. Judy Mikovits

James Corbett on Bill Gates

Dr. Christiane Northrup

Dr. Zach Bush

Dr. Francis Boyle

Michel Chossudovsky

"...Interested in your response, Jude"

There really is no excuse not to do the necessary hard work & study that it requires in order to get to the bottom of this thing. Those who refuse to see are willfully blind. =And= "There is none so blind as he / she who will not see." It is all here, just a "mouse-click away" as infojockey has stated.

What we have here is a case of the so-called "liberals" being so bound by their group-think-ful fears of being perceived -or accused- by their peers of being a "conspiracy theorist" that they refuse to examine the report or testimony of anyone who is denounced by the Centrist MSM & the "Fact-Check" sites as being such {i.e., a "conspiracy theorist").

If any of our fellow Wacovvians might take it in hand to consider themselves brave enough to venture out into waters that are very definitely over our collective heads, I would encourage you=all to just be bold, and click on the links above. Read. Study.

One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.

Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

"Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered..."

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.

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In an interview with the National Geographic, Tony Fauci made comments about “alternative views” of the origin of the coronavirus. But he was really talking about all unorthodox medical information:

“Anybody can claim to be an expert even when they have no idea what they’re talking about—and it’s very difficult for the general public to distinguish. So, make sure the study is coming from a reputable organization that generally gives you the truth—though even with some reputable organizations, you occasionally get an outlier who’s out there talking nonsense. If something is published in places like New England Journal of Medicine, Science, Nature, Cell, or JAMA—you know, generally that is quite well peer-reviewed because the editors and the editorial staff of those journals really take things very seriously.”

Right you are, Tony.

So, Tony, here is a very serious statement from a former editor of one of those “places,” the New England Journal of Medicine:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” (Dr. Marcia Angell, NY Review of Books, January 15, 2009, “Drug Companies & Doctors: A Story of Corruption")

And here is another one, from the editor-in-chief of the prestigious journal, The Lancet, founded in 1823:

“The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness…”

“The apparent endemicity of bad research behaviour is alarming. In their quest for telling a compelling story, scientists too often sculpt data to fit their preferred theory of the world. Or they retrofit hypotheses to fit their data. Journal editors deserve their fair share of criticism too. We aid and abet the worst behaviours. Our acquiescence to the impact factor fuels an unhealthy competition to win a place in a select few journals. Our love of ‘significance’ pollutes the literature with many a statistical fairy-tale…Journals are not the only miscreants. Universities are in a perpetual struggle for money and talent…” (Dr. Richard Horton, editor-in-chief, The Lancet, in The Lancet, 11 April, 2015, Vol 385, “Offline: What is medicine’s 5 sigma?”)

( Source )

Amen!

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.

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well, peter, snarky style notwithstanding, what actually distinguishes the group is LACK of adherence to "limited and narrowly ideological sources" which would have been apparent had you bothered to actually look at them.
and your source for your hallowed, bonafide, 24 carat intel is... tv? or what, exactly? do share. jude

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Barry, I'm wondering how much of the work that's been posted you've watched, listened to, read, considered...

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I've read some, in fact more than I'd like, considering I am trying to moderate this list...

Some has value, some doesn't. Most of which is bridled with such a heavy agenda to find how they are out to get us, it's hard to read. James Corbett seems to be the best of the bunch and I've watched several of his videos. Others have varying levels of veracity and batshit craziness, including plenty of just making things up (such as the fake quote I posted about) that I'm not interested in parsing it.

At some point I'll post some more thoughts about conspiracy theories (or maybe I'll hire Finell to do it for me :wink:) but at the moment I'm trying to limit desk time as my back is out.

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

One should always keep an open mind. There is a big difference between an open mind and an empty mind. There is a big difference between sources that are credible and sources that are not credible.

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You fear outliers.

We students of conspiracy genuinely fear the end of humanity. You naysayers fear... What?

The end of your positions in the hierarchy. You like dominating and being dominated. You like smugly retorting about credible sources, without addressing the facts presented. That's why you're here, even though you're expressly disinterested in the subject.

Your attitude is clear, Richard, and history is replete with others who were/are a "life-long member of the scientific community".

You'd be the first step up to light the pyre to burn Gallileo and anyone else who disrupts your paradigm.

If you couldn't kill him, you'd make sure he was discredited, de-funded, and everything else in your power,
anything but examining the work.

You and your kind, arrogant and brutal, are responsible for holding back actual learning, while keeping yourself in positions of power as long as possible. There are many like you, all so very convinced of how right you are, while actually slowing down humanity's progress.

Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

You fear outliers.

We students of conspiracy genuinely fear the end of humanity. You naysayers fear... What?

The end of your positions in the hierarchy. You like dominating and being dominated. You like smugly retorting about credible sources, without addressing the facts presented. That's why you're here, even though you're expressly disinterested in the subject.

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this amateur psychoanalysis is really amazing. I never understand why that's such a common feature of interwebby interactions. Man, you don't even know if he's a dog*


* or a sock puppet.

You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories—and the paradigm-shifting theories of Copernicus, Kepler, and Newton—because of the quality of the theoretical work, the soundness of the underlying mathematics, and the accompanying discoveries. That is how, and why, science works.

On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Your attitude is clear, Richard, and history is replete with others who were/are a "life-long member of the scientific community". ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories...

On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. ...

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Damn! Yes! Drop the mic!

:thumbsup:

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o7qDSOvfaCO9b3MlO/html5

Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.

Are you familiar with Popper's 4 stages of scientific progress? Without quoting exactly, I recall that they're something like, first new theories are dismissed as absurd, then then railed against, then they're considered, then adopted and deemed obvious - just until the next round of paradigm-shifting discoveries.

By your statement, you imply that you know the "relevant science and math" - great -
and also that you can prove that the people on the list are "obvious frauds and charlatans".

So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.
Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.
Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

You have it backward, Jude. ...

On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.

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barry - well, response at last, such as it is. glad you've gotten to james corbett, a good start.

though as for the rest:

"...trying to moderate this list" - too 'busy' to actually examine the work.

"hard to read" - actually most is video; regardless, it's not cartoons, it does require the effort of focus for comprehension.

"my back is out" - a laptop allows positions to suit your body.

excuses and dismissal without specificity of refutation is patently meaningless.

if you want to stay with the mainstreammedia story, exactly what the government wants you to know and do, it's easier, much easier, BUT NOT NECESSARILY TRUE - in fact, as we all (?) know, there are very many reasons why it is NOT.

should you ever want to look into examples of why everyone ought to be VERY suspect of that, you could read any number of works on governments/regimes and the populations they control and "false flags", etc.

paragraphs below from book i just came across out on the subject (I have not read this; i include it because you mention conspiracies. again.) so, at the risk of redundancy, here:

"False Flags are real, though the Deep State prefers you believe they are the product of “unhinged conspiracy nuts.” False flags are real and have been used on many occasions to advance nations into war, change regimes or radically sway public opinion. But not every event is a false flag and not every conspiracy theory is correct, as there are literally hundreds of them circulating for every national crisis that is mentioned in the news. And behind the scenes are government forces—domestic and foreign—working to infiltrate and undermine those organizations that best analyze the available data and threaten to expose the perfidy of the false-flag orchestrators.In this book are chapters on some of the best-known false flags in American history and a few chapters on strange events, shootings, and bombings that have spurred some seemingly incredible theories.

Author Clint Lacy examines the official narratives of each of these events (and many more) and then provides information that contradicts the official story, proving that we, as citizens, need to be ever vigilant, refusing to accept without independent investigation any scenario the Deep State foists upon us."

jude

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I've read some, in fact more than I'd like,...

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Debunking the Debunkers

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

I'm ready to read certain things, such as the article Chauncey Gardener cited, and completely got wrong, with regard to polio. Most of the stuff you guys link is utter bullshit and I'm not going to dirty my mind with it.

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png amayon wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
It's a great list, some I've heard of, some I haven't, and yes, it's pathetic that Barry doesn't respond; Northern California is unfortunately a cult of cowardly, groupthinking sheeple, who are not going to get the message until it's probably too late, and then they're going to wimper and sob and beg to be saved.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

---

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

Speaking for myself, a life-long member of the scientific community, I don't owe you fools jack shit and will not waste my time watching your knuckle-headed "research." You guys pollute the public discourse with your conspiratorial nonsense.

---

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Posted in reply to the post by Finell:

You have it backward, Jude. Almost all scientists (and mathematicians) quickly accepted Galileo's paradigm-shifting theories—and the paradigm-shifting theories of Copernicus, Kepler, and Newton—because of the quality of the theoretical work, the soundness of the underlying mathematics, and the accompanying discoveries. That is how, and why, science works.

On the other hand, you and like-minded WaccoBBers lack both the scientific knowledge and the discipline of critical thinking to realize that the individuals you promote as proponents of enlightened new knowledge are in fact obvious frauds and charlatans. If you took the time and made the effort to learn the relevant science and math, you would see it as well.

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Look, and look good: Richard Ely, aka geomancer; Peter Lipson, aka podfish, and Steve Finell. You have made your points. I don't think there is much more to be said - unless you just want to go on repeating yourselves endlessly like a broken record.

As the originator of this thread, I am asking that you leave, politely, by the front door and go back to your respectable white-collar, blue-pill ward, and leave us darkies what have been quarantined by Barry in this - his designated, "red-pill" ward - alone. This here ward is for those of us who have been niggerized & branded as "conspiracy theorists"

You ain't got nothing to contribute here, in the "Coronavirus/Conspiracy" Ward. You have proven that abundantly, again & again. Y'all are slumming, kibitzing & trolling, to boot. This here ward is for those of us who have taken the time to read 'alternative' sources -which you folks refuse to do.

I think I am within the bounds of reasonable discourse to state my case so bluntly because Barry has quarantined this one ( i ) to have a privileged seat in the back of the bus. Barry knows what I am talking about since I shared my dream (trauma) with him. CHORUS: "Do you have a Dream?" A. Yes I gots one.

Hitherto, Barry, our erstwhile Faifax-based moderator, has repeatedly demanded of me in 'personal' e-mails that I stop posting on certain threads. Evidently, he thought that I was incapable of "acting responsibly about coronavirus" -Or perhaps he just wanted to impose a little "social distancing' on this one. He has also moved my comments from the threads where I posted them back into the isolation of this "red-pill" ward.

So I think I have earned the right to ask for Barry to respect the same rule that he imposed on me back during the time that he booted me out of the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread. I had more to say there - about how we-all should stock up on grains & foods that can keep; more about herbs, etc.

The only time that I make it uptown into your blue-pill ward these days is to deliver news - as a news-boy. -And when I do that, I present it as a document that I have processed in Microsoft Word (TM) (damn that Bill Gates) and I deliver the paper straight to your door. I don't engage in trolling over there, in your 'hood. I is very respectful - like a good old field-negro s'posed to be.

Mos' ob de time, massa Barry see fit to send my missives back here into the red-pill ward, but dat don't stop me none from doing what I consider to be my God-given duty: to warn all you west county honkeys about what's coming.

Now if y'all want to seriously open up any of those mighty dangerous links that abound on this thread - or if any of you chose to engage in a dialog with me about some of the statements I post here - either my own words -or- the words of others - I welcome the chance to debate with you on whatever points you might chose to address. -For that is the nature of dialog. But to merely go "nanner, nanner" isn't.

Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed. Now go away. You are cluttering up my thread and the whole red-pill ward with inane, stupid comments. Go away. Dis de Ghetto. You on de wrong side of the tracks. What you doing down heah?

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

this amateur psychoanalysis is really amazing. I never understand why that's such a common feature of interwebby interactions. Man, you don't even know if he's a dog*


* or a sock puppet.

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And you don't even know what you're doing here, besides proving my point.

This thread is beginning to sound like the previous climate change arguments: a few scientists declare it's a hoax, while 98-99% scientists worldwide say it's real. Add to that the reality we are experiencing with extreme weather, deteriorating ecosystems, species die-off, famine, water shortages, pandemics, virus mutations, etc. etc.

Looks to me like climate change is real and happening with or without Bill Gates, Agenda 21, and other straws the Chicken Littles of this world are grasping at. I'm going with the majority of the scientists and the evidence of my eyes even though there is a certain attraction for some people to being in the martyred and misunderstood minority.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.
...

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The big question, behind all the signal noise, the gesticulations, the paroxysms, obviously is - WHO IS THE MOST DELUDED. It's that ding dong realpolitik simple. Care to tell me why the left was caught absolutely flat footed by Trump's victory? The wailing rattled windows and cracked the earth. But the polls. Yah, well the polls were wrong. But the Russians. Yah, well the Steele Dossier was sewage as newly declassified documents establish and coming indictments will illustrate. Care to tell me why a two year long $30 million Mueller investigation, two subsequent "blockbuster"hearings, a mute "blockbuster" whistleblower who never testified, a full on rock crusher impeachment attempt...all failed? You can jump and gyre all you wish over corruption, unfairness, public stupidity, inertias of thought, karmic instability, gnostic corporeality and great convolutions of yadda yadda, yet the Trumpeyman still rules. It all spells failure and nothing spells failure like DELUSION, which is basically an inability to predict. I don't even know why I'm writing this since encouraging the left's delusion has obviously been a winning prospect. So pay no attention, continue trying everything in your magic hat to bring down the 7 Headed Beast of the Apocalypse and I'll go on Amazon to order a new popcorn maker cuz I burnt out the old one and this paradigm-ready ENDGAME circus is just getting started.

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

....As the originator of this thread, I am asking that you leave, politely, by the front door and go back to your respectable white-collar, blue-pill ward, and leave us darkies what have been quarantined by Barry in this - his designated, "red-pill" ward - alone. This here ward is for those of us who have been niggerized & branded as "conspiracy theorists"

You ain't got nothing to contribute here, in the "Coronavirus/Conspiracy" Ward........
Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed.

---

well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.

I wonder what would happen if for just one day, no one had to give a comment about Covid theories. There seems to be a lot of ego at stake here. I am on the verge of stopping my receipt of this zine, but like it for other reasons. Take a break.

See my comment below:

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

Well, Steven, here we are again - attempting to sort truth out. OK, LET'S.

Are you familiar with Popper's 4 stages of scientific progress? Without quoting exactly, I recall that they're something like, first new theories are dismissed as absurd, then then railed against, then they're considered, then adopted and deemed obvious - just until the next round of paradigm-shifting discoveries.

---

Please give an example of Stage 4. Off the top of my head I can think of numerous revolutionary scientific theories in the 20th Century that were not "obvious" beforehand: Einstein's Special & General theories of relativity, quantum mechanics & the Standard Model, the expanding universe-big bang cosmology, DNA, continental drift/plate tectonics, nanotechnology, etc.

I got my Master's degree in stratigraphy & paleontology in 1969, the same year the fully-developed theory of plate tectonics was synthesized at the GSA Asilomar Penrose Conference (December). I had favored the hypothesis of continental drift since taking my first structural geology course in 1960; the matching topography and geology across the South Atlantic were convincing even though the driving mechanism(s) was obscure; this still is an unsettled question today.

It was the understanding of the tectonics of the oceanic crust in the 1960's that allowed the hypothesis of continental drift to evolve into the theory of plate tectonics. It was an exciting time to be a geologist, made more so by living through the revolutionary fervor in Berkeley during the Vietnam War.

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By your statement, you imply that you know the "relevant science and math" - great -
and also that you can prove that the people on the list are "obvious frauds and charlatans".

So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.
Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.

---

As my teenage boys used to say, you can't make me!

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

....So I challenge you to do both, without begging off with any excuses.
Without that, your words are no more than neener neener - empty and hollow.
Jude

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hey, are you dissing my neener neener post? I thought it communicated my position well, and you call it empty and hollow. Makes me feel about four years old again.

Cool so we get it, you guys are a bunch of adolescent boys with your pants down.

Jude, mayacaman, infojockey, etc: are you or do you know anybody preparing for food shortages by growing and raising extra animals?

Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

...Jude, mayacaman, infojockey, etc: are you or do you know anybody preparing for food shortages by growing and raising extra animals?

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.

---

You don't think this economic depression is going to create food shortages, and that being self-sufficient is important?

I wasn't calling you an adolescent boy, infojockey, just the three douchebags who never make a valuable contribution - podfish, finell, geomancer.

What is your picture of the next 18 months?

...blub, blub...blub, blub...

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Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:

...blub, blub...blub, blub...

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Yeah infojockey is someone whose opinion I respect because he can string two thoughts together, but if he thinks prepping is a mistake he's just another idiot like you

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

Yeah infojockey is someone whose opinion I respect because he can string two thoughts together, but if he thinks prepping is a mistake he's just another idiot like you

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funny way to show respect. You're right, infojockey's good at expressing himself, but don't delude yourself. The only reason you (occasionally) respect him is because some of his ideas seem compatible with yours.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

funny way to show respect. You're right, infojockey's good at expressing himself, but don't delude yourself. The only reason you (occasionally) respect him is because some of his ideas seem compatible with yours.

---

He can actually argue a point, which you have never managed to do in this thread.

The lesson of Y2K taught me that portents of doom multiply the actual danger by a hundred, at least. That was a panic largely spread via private means online and was 90% occurring among the far right. Hillary's loss after virtually all the major news outlets said she was a shoe in told me that the mainstream news is not to be trusted again. The news media's role in panic mongering during the pandemic is being revealed as data on the actual infection and death levels and their demographics, comes to light in the aftermath. Not to be trusted.

Most leftists have zero knowledge of the actual mechanics of bringing food to the markets and no sense of the utterly huge agricultural production capacity of the nation, let alone California. California alone could probably keep the entire world from starving to death. Agriculture is machine intensive and is good on social distancing, so did not suffer whole lot of shutdown - non-packaged/processed food production has been maintained through the pandemic. My take is that food supplies, dented only slightly, will be normal within 2-4 months. With fuel prices so cheap, food prices shouldn't rise, but who knows, the cartels use any excuse to squeeze a bit more bottom line out of the system to pay their stock holders.

That's not the worry. The major worry, as I see it, is that smaller mom and pop business will fold, creating misery, increase of welfare rolls, and a reluctance of people to spend. Their customers will gravitate to the corporate chain giant mall shops which are monopolies. Monopolies are not capitalism, they are monopolism, oligopolies, wealth hoarding psychotics. The tendency of large companies or cartels of large companies to take over a market needs to be addressed with anti-price fixing regulation and the outlawing of interlocking corporate directorships.

But such issues don't grab our sympathy for the wretched of the Earth, we don't even perceive that they cause the wretchedness in any detailed way. We just lump capitalism (the most productive economic system the planet has yet seen) in with monopolism (actual fascism, an analog to monarchy, which republican democracy fights against), and become Marxist crusaders. But Marxism, for all it's anti-exploitation rhetoric, is another form of monopolistic fascism with a dismal track record of blood and oppression. Frankly, it's championing in this day and age is a signal to me of mental retardation. Before Marxism, the hope of humanity was placed with republicanism. If I use the term "republican" or "republicanism", how many know what it actually means, why it came into being and what its role in history has been? Do me a favor right now and search Wikipedia for "The American Progressive Party". Lemme know what you find.

On the individual level, people will tend to be smarter on how they spend their money and this may actually be a somewhat positive effect long term as people spend their money on what's important, not the fantasies and fetishes they are sold by advertising propaganda. People will also get out from under debt which is the largest single evil that is using this planet for a habitat. Debt is what funds the fascist Wall St. oligarchy. The destruction of debt should be the purpose of every radical with a conscience able to actually target the beast's brain.

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

The lesson of Y2K taught me that portents of doom multiply the actual danger by a hundred, at least. That was a panic largely spread via private means online and was 90% occurring among the far right. Hillary's loss after virtually all the major news outlets said she was a shoe in told me that the mainstream news is not to be trusted again. The news media's role in panic mongering during the pandemic is being revealed as data on the actual infection and death levels and their demographics, comes to light in the aftermath. Not to be trusted.

---

there's that 'trust' idea again. True, the media is all about the squirrels. There's information to be gained from them. And danger not realized isn't danger that didn't exist. Y2K could have sucked. Hillary almost won. We're hearing about worst-case pandemic results, that would likely happen if mitigating actions weren't taken. There are plenty of places in the world, and in the U.S. where you get enough concentration to get a glimpse of how bad it could be.

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Most leftists have zero knowledge of the actual mechanics of bringing food to the markets and no sense of the utterly huge agricultural production capacity of the nation, let alone California. California alone could probably keep the entire world from starving to death. ... My take is that food supplies, dented only slightly, will be normal within 2-4 months. With fuel prices so cheap, food prices shouldn't rise, but who knows, the cartels use any excuse to squeeze a bit more bottom line out of the system to pay their stock holders.

---

food access has never been limited by availability of food, at least in modern times. It's the economic system - not a cabal (maybe a cartel), but an inevitable outcome of the system's design. Capitalist conservatives are quite proud of the system they built, thinking it promotes individual initiative and responsibility, while rewarding the virtuous. Which is self-serving bullshit, its as crude a way to encourage initiative as pain is a way to alert you that you've been injured. But no, it's not going to come down without major changes.

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That's not the worry. The major worry, as I see it, is that smaller mom and pop business will fold, creating misery, increase of welfare rolls, and a reluctance of people to spend. Their customers will gravitate to the corporate chain giant mall shops which are monopolies....
But such issues don't grab our sympathy for the wretched of the Earth, we don't even perceive that they cause the wretchedness in any detailed way. .... Debt is what funds the fascist Wall St. oligarchy. The destruction of debt should be the purpose of every radical with a conscience able to actually target the beast's brain.

---

people are comfort-seeking and risk-averse. That's why they'll go to Applebees over a local diner when travelling. There's also Johnson's aphorism about the poorest white man... You're wrong about the eternal utility of capitalism, though. Money was a cool invention, private-property was too. They scaled ok for a long time, along with the idea of disproportionately rewarding a chosen leader, if you think the pharaonic system and its ilk have served us well. The price was heavy, though, and only in recent times has the idea of egalitarianism even gotten wide lip service. But, you gotta ration, so what else are you gonna do? Well, I don't think you can get there from here, but as a society we've got the tools to change. As long as people think that Bezos earned his money by doing something special, and people who don't 'earn' their food, lodging and health care deserve to suffer, we're screwed. It's those ideas that keep us where we are, not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced.

I want to remind everybody that you can selectively unsubscribe from any thread.

If you are getting individual emails for a thread you can stop them by clicking the “Stop Email Updates” button on the bottom of your email.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...9_15-52-13.png

You can also remove a thread from your digest by clicking on the “Website/Reply”button on a post from that thread in your digest. And then on the website, scroll to the top of the page and click on “Daily Digest” where it says Follow: Daily Digest” and select “No Email”

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco..._15-53-27a.png

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.

---

Listen Peter, I am not a "red-piller". And I am not a so-called "conspiracy theorist". And I heartily resent the use of those terms to describe, denigrate, and dismiss what I have to say here at WaccoBB. Back in 2012 I left off posting here because Barry Chertov could not cease from his constant digs (@ me) and mockery along those lines. I had had enough, and I quit. I may do it again.

So I completely understand and sympathize with your not wanting to be dismissed as a "blue-piller." I think that the whole bloody binary us vs. them game is bogus - except when it applies to the machinations of the "1 % ". The class war is real. That's a doctrine I have retain'd from the time I received my socialist catechism & communion from my little Jewish socialist grandma that went along with my potty training at the age of two.

Soooo... When I used the terms "red-pill" and blue-pill" in my missive (above) I was using them somewhat sarcastically, tongue in cheek. -Same goes for saying that we, the "conspiracy theorists" -Barry's designation- have been "niggerized" here at WaccoBB. I am speaking figuratively. That's just the way it feels.

[By the way, I have earned the right - and received express permission - to use the "N" word, from my dusky brothers down in Oaktown. I know that I ain't nothing but an old field negro myself in the scheme of the Global Plantation - which the spin-doctors euphemistically refer to as the "Global Village"].

I suppose those of you who pride yourselves in being immune to "conspiracy thinking" don't really care to think about how it sometimes hurts, being continually on the receiving end of your insufferable "political correctness."

-Because the only reason I have ever posted here at WaccoBB, has been to inform the public; to brighten the corner where I are; to be a contributing & paying member of society. Now if you'd like some feedback about a little coyote scat you recently dropped on this trail which contains samples (plural) of your own "failure of logic" Peter, I'll be happy to address this little gem of yours:

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https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png podfish wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

---

In the first place, my own "perspective" - speaking strictly for myself - is not "drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources." Far from it. I'm the guy who posts screeds like the following, Remember ?

:

The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins
the following words through the DuckDuckGo Search engine :


" id2020 , microchip, Bill Gates, patent, "

Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar
@ the foot of the page.

Listen/
Read/
Watch

-And that is my methodology, and "perspective", too. I actually practice what I preach, Peter. That is how I go about doing my own research, whenever it comes to analyzing any issue that I want to get to the bottom of. After I have determined a few salient angles of the issue - the subtopics one could say - I run those words through the Search Engine @ DuckDuckGo, using the Brave Browser, and I begin to plow through the pile.

I read everything. This is what I call "mapping the elephant" -Because we are all blind, Peter- and one has to look at everything from all perspectives - the complete 360 degrees around the entire Subject-at-hand.

It All comes up when one does a web search: left, right & center; establishment, "fact-checkers", left & right radicals, "peer reviewed studies", et cetera. Everything. After that - and very much during the process - I take mental notes. Sometimes (very often) I take physical notes also, with a pencil on yellow legal scratch pad paper. Then I work out the "contradictions" between what the various voices are saying / spieling using the methodology of the Four Ko-Tis of Buddhist Logic. (Good Stuff).

Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:

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1. (If A is B), A is B

2. A cannot be both B and not B

3. A is either B or not B

4. A is neither B nor not B

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NOTE:

I wrote this post two days ago and would have posted it then, but Barry "banned" me for twenty-four hours, just as I hit the "Preview" tab. Evidently he does not like the way my mind works. His excuse? I was being "obnoxious".

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

there's that 'trust' idea again. True, the media is all about the squirrels. There's information to be gained from them. And danger not realized isn't danger that didn't exist. Y2K could have sucked. Hillary almost won. We're hearing about worst-case pandemic results, that would likely happen if mitigating actions weren't taken. ...

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You again do nothing to address the idea being presented, that you are being lied to, that the "worst case pandemic" is a media-born hoax, that the ills you ascribe to capitalism are in fact due to monopolism and generated by a select few, and simply repeat that there is "not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced," with no real reference for this idea either. You do exactly what you accuse others of. And you sound like a broken record because you don't think, and so cannot meaningfully respond. You're more like guy with Tourette's syndrome.

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Posted in reply to the post by amayon:

You again do nothing to address the idea being presented, that you are being lied to, that the "worst case pandemic" is a media-born hoax, that the ills you ascribe to capitalism are in fact due to monopolism and generated by a select few, and simply repeat that there is "not some nefarious group of people who could be displaced," with no real reference for this idea either. You do exactly what you accuse others of. And you sound like a broken record because you don't think, and so cannot meaningfully respond. You're more like guy with Tourette's syndrome.

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what? I deny it. that's something. gg.. tk..ga..

So were you too among the throngs of protesters during the free speech movement and people's park? Maybe we even met some time as we were running around dodging cops and the military!

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

See my comment below:...

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I'm astounded at the bountiful time some of you regulars have to post these long screeds arguing and insulting each other! Armed combat of the mind! Fun fun fun!

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

Debunking the Debunkers

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Considering the state of the unions composition presently it seems like my family and friends have done the correct thing. We doubled our gardens, doubled our poultry and target practice with a variety of arsenals . It is certainly fool hardy to poke fun at the people who you will undoubtedly be asking for help when the chips are down. But with the hard heat of ignorance that runs your numbers my guess you would rather starve than be found wanting.
We should start a thread on what people are doing to get ready for total lock down scenarios etc. As for those who think that the world is not subjective and that it is not run on fantasy just look to the ten year old mind that is running this country right now and tell me what part of this ass necks plan is not subjective or running on complete fantasy. Ill wait in the garden.. My Guinnea pigs are mowing the front yard.

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Posted in reply to the post by infojockey:

Raising extra animals. That's real. Food shortages. Right. You and the gun nut militia preppers. Cool, so we get it, you guys are a bunch delusional pre schoolers judging reality from a subjective fantasy world.

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I want to suggest that you do just that for this thread bub. You have done nothing to help ..

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I want to remind everybody that you can selectively unsubscribe from any thread....

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The information on Polio is there for anyone to read and has been there since the 1920s, hand washing , clean food prep areas, the advent of back water plumbing, and draining swamps where the fetid waters of towns ended up. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp..
This is what brought polio to a standstill. no vaccine is as valuable as knowing that you should not eat your own or other peoples poop.:wink2:

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

...What say Chauncey, any more thoughts on polio?

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Used to be - swim in a lake or creek, get polio. Now it's - swim in a lake or creek and get MRSA or Flesh Eating Disease.

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

I'm astounded at the bountiful time some of you regulars have to post these long screeds arguing and insulting each other! Armed combat of the mind! Fun fun fun!

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Richard, if you think that my post - the one that you refer to in the link - was about 'arguing and insulting others', I must say, you missed the point. It was a Protest and a Demand for "Justice" {for those of us who are marginalized as "conspiracy theorists."

It was a Demand for a level playing field here at WaccoBB, where our offerings are duly respected, and addressed on the merits of the information - instead of being mocked by interlopers in our ward who are slumming down here, trolling & kibitzing. Go back and read my post again. Better yet, I'll cite the 'bottom line' here:

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

...Hitherto, Barry, our erstwhile Faifax-based moderator, has repeatedly demanded of me in 'personal' e-mails that I stop posting on certain threads. Evidently, he thought that I was incapable of "acting responsibly about coronavirus" -Or perhaps he just wanted to impose a little "social distancing' on this one. He has also moved my comments from the threads where I posted them back into the isolation of this "red-pill" ward.

So I think I have earned the right to ask for Barry to respect the same rule that he imposed on me back during the time that he booted me out of the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread. I had more to say there - about how we-all should stock up on grains & foods that can keep; more about herbs, etc.

The only time that I make it uptown into your blue-pill ward these days is to deliver news - as a news-boy. -And when I do that, I present it as a document that I have processed in Microsoft Word (TM) (damn that Bill Gates) and I deliver the paper straight to your door. I don't engage in trolling over there, in your 'hood. I is very respectful - like a good old field-negro s'posed to be.

Mos' ob de time, massa Barry see fit to send my missives back here into the red-pill ward, but dat don't stop me none from doing what I consider to be my God-given duty: to warn all you west county honkeys about what's coming.

Now if y'all want to seriously open up any of those mighty dangerous links that abound on this thread - or if any of you chose to engage in a dialog with me about some of the statements I post here - either my own words -or- the words of others - I welcome the chance to debate with you on whatever points you might chose to address. -For that is the nature of dialog. But to merely go "nanner, nanner" isn't.

Bottom Line: You have all made your point - the same point. Your minds are closed. Now go away. You are cluttering up my thread and the whole red-pill ward with inane, stupid comments. Go away. Dis de Ghetto. You on de wrong side of the tracks. What you doing down heah?

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-The point being that We -those of us in this forum who have been designated with the hashtag "#Conspiracy Theorist" by Barry- have been put in a segregated neighborhood - the "Coronavirus Conspiracy" Ward. Now I can't help it if other folks keep coming down to our Ghetto to check out the action here - because, after all, this is where the action is. -But I would prefer if they came to read and make reasonable discourse, instead of slumming, kibitzing & trolling. That was my point, Dear old friend.

Sincerely, Marko

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

So were you too among the throngs of protesters during the free speech movement and people's park? Maybe we even met some time as we were running around dodging cops and the military!

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People's Park for sure, it was my first arrest! I was a grad student at the University of Illinois during the FSM, but paid close attention. My first demonstration was picketing one of Gov. Nelson Rockefeller's model fallout shelter's that were touring NY state in 1961. A photo of my sign, which read "Are you a man of a mole?", made the front page of the Ithaca newspaper. The "shelter" was ridiculous, featuring two bunk beds and miscellaneous objects (a porta-potty! Coleman stove!) inside a semi-trailer. The "library" featured a bible (natch) and several Reader's Digest condensed books.

Opposition to atmospheric testing of nuclear weapons was intense on the Cornell campus in 1961-62. My friends and I were organized as a chapter of the "Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy", a nationwide organization headed by Norman Cousins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Cousins), SANE was an unofficial liaison between JFK and Khrushchev when the test-ban treaty was being negotiated. Our chapter was too Left-wing for Cousins and we eventually were kicked out of SANE.

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Posted in reply to the post by Chauncey Gardner:

The information on Polio is there for anyone to read and has been there since the 1920s, hand washing , clean food prep areas, the advent of back water plumbing, and draining swamps where the fetid waters of towns ended up. https://rootsofprogress.org/draining-the-swamp..
This is what brought polio to a standstill. no vaccine is as valuable as knowing that you should not eat your own or other peoples poop.:wink2:

---

Here's a direct quote from the article that you linked to but (apparently) did not read carefully:

"A vaccine was also the solution for polio, which caused few deaths compared to many other diseases, but many cases of paralysis. For other diseases, though, vaccines mostly came along late in the game and mopped up what was left after improved sanitation and hygiene had done most of the work."

Chauncey, admit you were wrong on polio and move on.

Hi Marko! I don't know about Barry putting you in a "ghetto." Your posts seem to be on the regular site like everyone else's. Maybe I've missed something. But even in this post you sent here to show me how I was missing the point, you come across as argumentative and insulting, railing against those "interlopers in our ward who are slumming down here, trolling & kibitzing."

I'm not criticising your points of view here or anyone else's on this site, Marko. I'm just pointing out that you and others here are putting an awful lot of time and energy into arguing and, in the process, insulting and putting each other down. You seem to be focused on railing against your victimization. You have every right to express those feelings and argue all you want. But you might consider looking more deeply into where all those feelings are coming from, dear old friend!

--Richard

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

Richard, if you think that my post - the one that you refer to in the link - was about 'arguing and insulting others', I must say, you missed the point. It was a Protest and a Demand for "Justice" {for those of us who are marginalized as "conspiracy theorists." ...

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Richard Hoff, My old friend, I only spoke out once to that effect - that Barry has put us (hash-tagged #Conspiracy Theorists ) into a Ghetto or Ward of our own. This Ghetto is called "Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories." That constitutes the niggerization of independent research on the 'Coronavirus Crisis' that does not follow the party line of the Main Stream Media, and the "Fact-Check" sites that are subsidized by the tax-exempt foundations. Capische?

Furthermore, I, personally do not like to engage in being "argumentative & insulting"; I am merely very weary of seeing "my thread" being trashed by arguments and the inane, off-subject comments of others. I would like to see this thread stay on topic, and proceed along the lines of intelligent, adult discourse about the (very serious) issues & items that I myself, and others have put on the table here.

One of the purposes of 'trolling' is to deflect public attention away from the examination of serious data
by focusing on minor points & engaging in trivial arguments about bs. * Everyone should know this by now.

Now Barry - with whom I have a ( mutual ) love-hate relationship - has seen fit to boot me off other threads -where I was making legitimate, social contributions- and quarantine my comments into the "Coronavirus Conspiracy Theories" Ward. And I have stated my protest. Enough said. It is abundantly evident to me that the man has double standards.

On the one hand, he boots me off the "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" thread - where I was trying to contribute, and was certainly not trolling. -And on the other hand, Barry himself has joined in the trolling & mockery of we, the so-called #Conspiracy Theorists here in this, his designated Ward for the weirdos, 'politically incorrect' & insane. Do you get my point, Richard? The legs of the lame are not equal.

That is a fact, Richard, whether or not you have noticed it, or not. But I have experienced it, and I tell you, it does not "feel" very good. I have merely drawn attention to it, of late. I would like this thread to return to a level of talk & discourse where the people who post here will Be Civil, and not call other people "fools" - as geomancer, Richard Ely has repeatedly done here & in a private email to this one ( i ).

If those three men - who are obviously intelligent, rational, & educated people - can engage in civil discourse here, on this thread and on other threads in this ward, I welcome the opportunity to debate or discourse with them.

We do go back, Richard,

Marko

Bottom Line :

Let's Stay on Topic: Coronavirus : "Reality" & "Conspiracy Theory"

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

Hi Marko! I don't know about Barry putting you in a "ghetto." Your posts seem to be on the regular site like everyone else's. ...

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Yes, Richard Ely certainly overindulged in his hostility there. I would prefer showing kindness and respect even for people you regard as fools.

But can't you see the extremely hostile and insulting quality in your very post right here? You are ever the outraged victim! And your detractors are absolutely niggerizing you! You are pretty extreme, Marko, and I would love to see you take a fresh look at the outraged victim within you. I think this is a case in which it takes two to tango!

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

Richard Hoff, My old friend, I only spoke out once to that effect...

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Rereading this, it doesn't say why you were in Berkeley during People's Park, since you don't mention going to school there. I didn't either, but I chose to live in Berkeley because it seemed like the right place for me--and it was! I'm a bit older than you and had graduated from Reed College in 1961.

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Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:

People's Park for sure, it was my first arrest! ...

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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:

Yes, Richard Ely certainly overindulged in his hostility there. I would prefer showing kindness and respect even for people you regard as fools.

But can't you see the extremely hostile and insulting quality in your very post right here? You are ever the outraged victim! And your detractors are absolutely niggerizing you! You are pretty extreme, Marko, and I would love to see you take a fresh look at the outraged victim within you. I think this is a case in which it takes two to tango!

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You don't get it, Richard. What you perceive as ‘hostility’ is merely justifiable anger. I have longtime held my peace. Let me make this perfectly clear: I am not “extremely hostile” towards anyone. -And when I speak of being “niggerized” - it is in this Context:

An Open Protest Re: the Marginalization of Dissent from the Party-line of the MSM

As I wrote: "...people who are tarred as "conspiracy theorists" should engage in a little “identity politics" and protest that they have become an oppressed minority. Calling someone a “conspiracy theorist” in America today is equivalent to calling an African-American a “nigger” in the South during Jim Crow, or calling someone a “Communist” in the paranoid political climate of 1950, at the beginning of the Korean War.”

-Nor do I consider myself a ‘victim’ - at all. I am not looking for pity; don't do that; don't need it or want it. I am not in this for myself, and it is not about my own little ’outraged’ ego, Dr. Richard. Thank you very much.

It's not about little old me, old chap - it's about Dr. Francis Boyle , Robert F Kennedy Jr., and Dr. Luc Montagnier, Richard, who have also been put into this African Ward with the rest of us darkies. -The better to be derided and marginalized, Richard, in accordance with the "Event 201" Playbook. [ Entre 47:00 - 57:00 ]

I will concede that i am “angry” at the moderator of this site, Barry Chertov. -And that my Complaint with him is about the lack of a level playing field here @ Waccobb when it comes to examining all of the evidence concerning where the SARS-2/ Covid-19 came from, and what the “Plan” of the plutocrats is, with regards to all of that. -And the fact that any information that runs counter to the party-line of the main stream media and the fact-checkers is generally shunted over here by Barry Chertov into this designated Ghetto.

Over the past ten years Barry has driven many independent, contrarian thinkers away from this forum; banning some, & driving others away on account of the way he flexes his muscles and snaps his whip around here, and savors his self-appointed role as Autocrat of the Bulletin Board.

I suggest that you go back and study the thread that wildandinspired Susan started in early March: "Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me" and compare the difference between the way Barry behaved there - to the post-adolescent contempt he has shewn us here in the "Conspiracy" Ward.

=However= Nobody can make me any more of an old field-negro than I already am, Richard. I embrace my negritude. Just ask Joshua Halpern, our mutual friend. When we greet we say, "Hey, Blood! =OR= "How's that old field-negro?"

–We two, old Berkeley boys, conceived & born in The East Bay, eye-witnesses of the Free Speech Movement, habitués of the Mediterraneum Café, Peaceniks who dodged the canisters of tear-gas in ’68, radicals from our mothers breasts, both realize that we ain’t nothing but old field negros to the plutocrats who run the ol' Global Plantation.

Furthermore, I am not “insulting” podfish /Peter & geomancer /Richard Ely. I am merely stating a fact : they have come down here into our nigger ward to slum and kibitz. & get this, Richard: I don't think that Peter/ podfish & Richard /geomancer are “niggerizing” me - & neither is Steve Finell, Esq. But they have been kibitzers. Peter and I occasionally give each other ‘gratitude’ -for we have certain points of agreement. He is obviously quite intelligent – though in mho his obvious Chompskyite biases frequently cloud his judgment.

-I have dealt with Richard Ely before –for years. We are actually “facebook friends” Ha! He is merely full of himself, and is another example of how the Chompskyite Systems Analysis approach sometimes degenerates into self-righteous venom. Am I being “insulting” Dr. Hoff? No. I am merely stating a fact.

Steve Finell, Esq., on the other hand is new to WaccoBB. And the fact that he made his appearance @ WaccoBB in mid-November of 2019 - when the CDC was recruiting employees - makes his presence here in this forum somewhat “questionable”, shall we say. So far, Steve Finell, Esq., has done nothing to dispel the impression that he has made on me: that he is a shill; a stringer detailed by the CDC to be the room monitor here @ WaccoBB. You may call that "paranoia" if you wish, nevertheless, to me it is plausible.

-And as an old Berkeley boy, I have had a lot of experience in observing plants over the years. If Mr. Finell, Esq., thinks he can coax a lawsuit for libel out of my statements, he may. I do have something to lose: my land. But it would be interesting, and if it went to Court, the Defense would get ‘discovery.’

[TAKE TWO...]

Knock, Knock, Peter/podfish, I’m talking to you… Because you wrote:

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

well, we're making our point badly if all you see is that 'our minds are closed'. And sorry, but the fact that you're using this medium means you're subject to comments. Note the big button below -- this forum is a forum because it invites interactions. People post things; others respond. If you find the responses repetitive, sorry. Many of the posts here seem like rehashes of previous ones. I feel little inclination to react to most of them - it has to be a pretty egregiously incompetent source that you reference for me to challenge your citation of them. When a post makes a lazy dismissal of someone's point of view as 'blue-pill', or creates an imaginary back-story that explains the motivation of a poster, I do tend to want to reply. But I'm most interested in failures of logic. Which I would think you would actually want to respond to in kind. Now, if you don't want anyone but those in your bubble, I think you'd be better off with a podcast or a website without comments.

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-To which I answered…

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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:

Listen Peter, I am not a "red-piller". And I am not a so-called "conspiracy theorist". And I heartily resent the use of those terms to describe, denigrate, and dismiss what I have to say here at WaccoBB. ..I completely understand and sympathize with your not wanting to be dismissed as a "blue-piller."

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However – perhaps you have forgotten – you yourself once casually dismissed me as a “red-piller.” Remember?

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

well, questions of fact really don't depend on the viewer's perception. Unless you agree with KellyAnn Conway, there isn't such a thing as 'alternative facts'. It's perfectly legitimate to question the conclusions of mainstream science, but it's not reasonable to expect to be put on equal footing. So being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense.

Sure, put out a caveat that there are people who strongly disagree with the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, and who have cunning or innovative suggestions about how to treat yourself or what they think has worked for them. But the topic of this thread, 'acting responsibly', seems to imply a focus on better substantiated factual information

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And I re-iterate: “…the only reason I have ever posted here at WaccoBB, has been to inform the public…to be a contributing & paying member of society. Now if you'd like some feedback about a little coyote scat you recently dropped on this trail which contains samples (plural) of your own "failure of logic" Peter, I'll be happy to address this little gem of yours:

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

good point. I can't imagine any other reason people won't accept the self-evident truth of your perspective. Can't possibly be that the evidence you find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources. Just because the group behind that bit of groupthink is smaller and more passionate doesn't make them any less sheepy, despite their self-image of themselves as pretty damn wolfish. It's kind of a trumpy deflection, thinking the mirror's a window.

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In the first place, my own "perspective" - speaking strictly for myself - is not "drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources." Far from it. I'm the guy who posts screeds like the following, Remember ?

The folowing comes up on the Brave browser when one spins
the following words through the DuckDuckGoSearch engine:
" id2020 , microchip, Bill Gates, patent, "

Keep hitting the "More Results" Bar
@ the foot of the page.

Listen/
Read/
Watch

-And that is my methodology, and "perspective", too. I actually practice what I preach, Peter. That is how I go about doing my own research, whenever it comes to analyzing any issue that I want to get to the bottom of.

After I have determined a few salient angles of the issue - the subtopics one could say - I run those words through the Search Engine @ DuckDuckGo, using the Brave Browser, and I begin to plow through the pile.

I read everything. This is what I call "mapping the elephant" -Because we are all blind, Peter- and one has to look at everything from all perspectives - the complete 360 degrees around the entire Subject-at-hand; the complete Elephant.

It All comes up when one does a web search: left, right & center; establishment, "fact-checkers", left & right radicals, "peer reviewed studies", et cetera. Everything. After that - and very much during the process - I take mental notes. Sometimes (very often) I take physical notes also, with a pencil on yellow legal scratch pad paper. Then I work out the "contradictions" between what the various voices are saying / spieling using the methodology of the Four Ko-Tis of Buddhist Logic.

-Because one must be open to “truth” from all quarters. To be able to do this, one must be ready to study, study, study. In the process of which, one shall verily encounter a multitude of lies and disinformation along the way. –All of which one must process.

-And, in order to do that, One must exercise the use of the proper philosophical tools to sift out the lies from that which is Actual & Real. The word for Truth in the Koinonia Greek of the New Testament,ἀλήθεια, has the essential meaning: 'the uncovering of that-which-is' = essentially the Same meaning embodied in the concept of Buddhist Suchness

So, What are the proper philosophical tools that one needs to keep in one’s mental toolbox? I suggest that folks look into the “Four Ko-Ti's” of Buddhist Logic, and the “Phenomenological Method” of Heidegger and Husserl – for they are essentially the same methodology / modality; one Eastern, one Western.

Four Ko-Ti's in a Nutshell:

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1. (If A is B), A is B
2. A cannot be both B and not B
3. A is either B or not B
4. A is neither B nor not B

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Now, Peter/podfish, If you would actually like to have a conversation with this one ( i ) who initiated this thread, you may, and we can have a discourse about my ‘methodology’ on the level of adults. But if you prefer to ignore me and shine on my attempt to have a conversation with you, you ought to concede – in all honesty - that you have only come down into our ward to kibitz and to troll://

-So which is it?

O well, perhaps you unconsciously wish to retain your fixed idea that “the evidence [that we] find so overwhelming actually seems drawn from limited and narrowly ideological sources.” If that is what you wish to think, go right ahead.

But I think that I have shown you to be wrong. But then again, if the tree falls in the forest, and there is no one around, does it actually make a sound? Perhaps not.

Burning was largely reserved for heretical and obstinate theologians such as Giordano Bruno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

Galileo was a Natural Philosopher and, as such, was considered much less of a threat to Church doctrine. Jude, I'm not a monster; were it up to me, rather than burn him at the stake, I simply would have crushed the little finger of his left hand. I'm sure that would have sufficed to convince him of the error of his ways!

Galileo spent the last 9 years of his life under house arrest, where he was secretly supplied with writing materials by his daughter. His final work "Two New Sciences" was published in Holland in 1638, a few years before his death in 1642 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_New_Sciences. If he had not been confined, it is unlikely that he ever would have gotten around to writing the book. The book summarizes his lifetime of work on moving bodies and materials, and became a standard European scientific text in subsequent centuries.

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Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:

... You'd be the first step up to light the pyre to burn Gallileo and anyone else who disrupts your paradigm. ...

You and your kind, arrogant and brutal, ...

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