Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
Yeah, many times, back in the day, I'd exit a concert and my ears would be ringing for hours afterward. Some years ago the Who were listed in the Guinness Book of World Records as the loudest band in the world--as loud as a jet engine. Maybe Trish was on such good acid when she saw these bands that the volume didn't bother her? :meditate:
+1 -- atually, for days, at least a couple of times.
(OT) I still don't mind loud amps, but I don't understand how people can use stereo earbuds. They seem dangerous to me. Every time I use them it seems like my eardrums might be trying to warn me not to.
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Let's hear (while we still can :wink1:) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( :lurk:) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.
If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!
So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?
Please post a comment or vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
radio buttons weren't the right choice -- how 'bout a way to say "sometimes too loud" AND "sometimes not loud enough"?? They don't really average to be equivalent to "generally about right"....
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Most definitely TOO LOUD!! Diego's Umbrella was particulalry bad. I love to dance and to be engulfed in the music. But I always hesitate to go to the HopMonk because it is always so so loud. Loud is OK but just not ear piercing where it actually hurts. I'd love it if it was turned down just a smidge to take the edge off.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Let's hear (while we still can :wink1:) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( :lurk:) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.
If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!
So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?
Please post a comment or
vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Barry, I think that many people responded to the slant of your comments, being toward the "too loud" aspect. So, it would be great to hear from those who think the Loud Sound is fine for them, no matter where it is. I'm imagining that it would come from the younger generation. I think that being "high" from whatever, may also have an influence, and or the level of "love" we have for the band/performers. But that's a whole different angle, than just the physical aspect of liking/enjoying loud music, especially "base", which I do have an affinity for, and therefore a little more tolerance. :wink2:.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Let's hear (while we still can :wink1:) from some of you who haven't chimed in yet ( :lurk:) so we can get an unbiased reading of public sentiment.
If noticed that no matter what the issue is, there is alway more energy expressed from the people who are opposed to it, rather than for it. So it if you think the volume is just fine (or whatever), please let us know!
So, how's the sound at live venues workin' for ya?
Please post a comment or
vote in the poll at the post at the top of this thread on the website.
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Sorry Barry, I'll get back on topic at the bottom of my post, but I want to offer some appreciation and clarification first. -L
Hello Jacques,
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the thoughtfully worded contribution. I appreciate knowing that there have been steps taken to buffer some of the sound. I imagine working with a stone building creates a few interesting dynamics to consider. I believe some more work could be done around those lower frequencies. Happy neighbors are good neighbors to have around.
FYI - the entrance move happened after I offered an observation that the Monday and Thursday night dance music got louder around midnight - 1am when folks tended to open the side door. I appreciated that move and told Patrick it made a difference when the door was closed. Of course, the door would still get opened because that is a quick way to get outside for a smoke break or to cool off. I'm sure the dancers and any live performers appreciate the fans! If I still lived in the neighborhood I would still be working on this issue and offering feedback, but I have moved and am blissfully asleep at 1am these days.
Patrick,
You are welcome to view my profile and realize that you dated my little sister waaaay back in your high school days. I have a screen name but I am not anonymous here.
You were not on the floor at Hopmonk whenever I called in the past and therefore cannot give first-hand remarks regarding the treatment I received. You eventually gave me your cell number so that I would call you instead of the Hopmonk line whenever there was an issue. That actually worked and I appreciate your attention, although I hated waking you in the middle of the night. Unfortunately, this only happened after a neighbor finally called the police and officer Colthurst was on the job. I would only call if the sound disturbed my children's sleep. I didn't call on my own account, even though I spent many nights awake because the windows and wall would vibrate with those crazy and carrying low frequencies.
Regarding my not-naming-names: I will not give a worker's name on this public forum, not matter how condescending he was to me. I am sure he felt that he was simply doing his job.
I would love to hear that there will occasionally be some lower decibel shows. You have great talent coming through Hopmonk . . . and other venues too! Why not broaden your audience and revenues with occasional "low decibel" shows? Advertise them here . . . you might be pleasantly surprised. There are more of us in the under 40 crowd than you might think. I know I have sensitive hearing, but I still appreciate music and wearing ear plugs to enjoy music is akin to trying to savor delicious food with a partially stuffed up nose. It's just not the same and not nearly as enjoyable as pure unbuffered sound - canned or live.
-L
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Posted in reply to the post by Jacques:
When we first started at the Hopmonk, the entrance was on the street which made it very easy for sound to escape the room and go down the street to neighbors houses. This is a primary reason why user Orm Embar had issues with sound carrying to his/her house probably. Since that time, the entrance to the Abbey for shows has been moved to the other side of the venue and the street doors are kept closed. The Hopmonk installed sound buffering inside the venue and installed 5 fans to keep the room cooler so that the doors, which used to be kept open a crack for air, are now kept closed. The sound buffering has been a huge help and we have set levels with our soundpeople to insure appropriate volume.
Even with all that done, with the best of intentions and efforts, some folks will find the volume or, more probably certain frequencies, not to their liking. I am very sensitive to that and just want to chime in that we are always working to better the experience of everyone that comes to the shows and to all in our community.
Respect - Jacques
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Readers should be aware that City of Sebastopol has a Noise Ordinance. Theoretically, what one wants and feels about 'sound' or music doesn't matter. The Ordinance makes it incumbent upon the business to keep sound above 45dbl from escaping the property after 10:00pm and 55dbl before that hour. The link to the Ordinance is:
https://ci.sebastopol.ca.us/sites/default/files/mgourley/municipal_code_chapter_8.25_noise_control_ordinance.pdf
On a practical note, this is almost impossible in an old building without proper sound insulation. Bass tones easily escape from acoustical mitigation. However, the Sebastopol standard mirrors most local government Ordinances. It is the businesses responsibility to meet this decibel level. It is the City responsibility to enforce.
Ernieman
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Following up on Ken (great sound guy!) from Aubergine's comments: As a member of a local band, I appreciate efforts by the folks at Aubergine to keep the sound levels sane. Although we have fans of all ages, we often get wonderful feedback from the over 40 crowd that they could carry on conversation while we played. What a concept! While we're not a dance band, per se, people do get up and boogey about to our music which tells me you don't need to have ear-splitting sound to "feel" the music. Over the years I recall having to leave a few concerts early because I just couldn't take the noise level, which considering the price of a ticket to a big music venue was a waste and a shame. I actually have a deep, physical reaction to overly loud bass -- it hurts not just my ears, it shakes my insides and that can't be good! Now if I could just figure out how to silence (or at least tone down) those people with over-grown sound systems in their cars blasting window-rattling bass for blocks and blocks....
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
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Posted in reply to the post by Ernieman:
I've worked with Seb police with that ordinance in hand, it's really fun to stand there with a db meter showing our voices at 75-80db and try to measure what's coming out of the club. A car driving by will always exceed the levels of the ordinance.
https://home.earthlink.net/~dnitzer/...n/Decibel.html
55db is somewhere between "normal office noise" and "conversational speech"
The actual ordinance is much more detailed than that, but this is a good example of how ludicrous it is to try to regulate sound in this situation. The ordinance is very specific about how and where the reading should be taken, and that the person doing the measuring has to be specifically trained in the use of a db meter. I found myself training the officers in the basic usage of the meter they were holding (like the difference between A and C weight, calibration etc.), and we work together to find the best possible middle-ground between the letter and the intent of the ordinance.
And yes, it is essentialy impossible to control the travel of bass without actually creating a complete building within a building - it is the nature of sound that tones below 100hz will go through walls, and below 50hz will travel through solid ground. Unfortunately it is also the nature of sub-bass sounds that they are not even heard unless you are at least 20 feet away from the source, which is why people who are driving and want to hear bass turn it up so much louder, and also why that is all you hear - the mid and high tones are blocked by the windows, but the bass travels onward. It's also why I'm always telling bass players to turn it down - they just can't hear the lowest notes when they're standing right next to the amp. Luckily I'm a bassist as well so they usually take my advice.
Peace,
Ken
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Dear Ken ...
Thank you so much for explaining the way the bass vibrations travel. I have been plagued by subsonic vibrations from some neighbor's music and have been unable to find where it's coming from. It keeps me awake at night with a throbbing in my inner ears, especially when I put my head down on the pillow. It's not every night, but many nights, the vibration goes all night long. As soon as I go outside to see if I can tell which neighbor it's coming from, I don't hear it any longer. I know it's transmitted through the ground, but I have no idea what I can do about it. Currently, I use a white noise machine at night so I can sleep. Do you have any idea how I can deal with this? I'm almost to the point of building a house within a house to be free of it.
Thanks for any suggestions ... Carla
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ChristmasCarla:
Dear Ken ...
Thank you so much for explaining the way the bass vibrations travel. I have been plagued by subsonic vibrations from some neighbor's music and have been unable to find where it's coming from. It keeps me awake at night with a throbbing in my inner ears, especially when I put my head down on the pillow. It's not every night, but many nights, the vibration goes all night long. As soon as I go outside to see if I can tell which neighbor it's coming from, I don't hear it any longer. I know it's transmitted through the ground, but I have no idea what I can do about it. Currently, I use a white noise machine at night so I can sleep. Do you have any idea how I can deal with this? I'm almost to the point of building a house within a house to be free of it.
Thanks for any suggestions ... Carla
Hi Carla,
The reason you can't tell where the subsonic sound is coming from is due to another unique aspect of those sounds: they are not "directional" so your stereo ears are not able to tell you the direction that sound is coming from. This is why Bose and other companies now often have the subwoofer as a single separate box from the rest of their speaker systems - you can place it anywhere in a room and it will sound OK because our ears can not hear the direction the low sound is coming from. So, you are unlikely to find the source unless you happen upon it while visiting neighbors.
Is your bed on carpet or a floor? From what you describe I'm guessing it's on a solid floor, because bass can travel through solid ground - in fact, we now know this is how elephants communicate over long distances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant#Communication
A possible solution would be to put padding between the feet of your bed and the floor - foam should work, or go to a hardware store and pick up some "wonder liner" - we use it in live sound to keep speakers from sliding around, it also dulls the vibrations between solids. A carpet with padding under it will also keep the bass from traveling from the ground to your pillow.
Re: Sound levels at local music venues: Too Loud, Not Loud Enough or Just Right?
Hi Carla:
It's getting away from the topic of this thread, so I won't belabor it here, but your problem is a common one, and I have some simple strategies for approaching it in the "Answers" section of my website, Live better by design. You might find what you need there.
Another place you can go for a very in-depth explanation about soundproofing is Soundproofing 101. It's thorough, but probably more than you need for the issue you describe.
I am very sensitive to sound, and know well how draining it can be. I have often had to employ various strategies for dealing with it. Good luck.
BTW, Ken, your approach towards dealing with sound issues at your venue seems pretty darn sane and civilized to me - thank you for your community-minded approach to balancing the variables.
Gavio
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ChristmasCarla:
Dear Ken ...
Thank you so much for explaining the way the bass vibrations travel.... Carla
