Merry (anti)Christmas from the Sebastopol Police Dept.

In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

Just want to mention my amusing encounter with a Sebastopol Police Officer earlier this year, as I drove through downtown Sebastopol at 1:30 AM on a week night in my conservative Volkswagon Passat station wagon containing two sleeping german shepherds and me, a 62 year old female , on our way home from san francisco to our home in Occidental.
Needless to say I was the only vehicle around. Sebastopol was so deserted it was other-worldly, and my eyes-lids were so heavy that in order to remain alert I made a game of making the dial on my speedometer move into perfect alinement with the various speed limits posted as one approaches downtown Sebastopol on 116. So absorbed was I with my quest for perfection and control -- the dial had to be exactly on the nose, not a mile over or under the speed limit-- I almost failed to notice in my rear view mirror as I passed the Holiday Inn that I was being followed by a Sebastopol Police Car all lit up and ablink.

The very young officer who came to my window, assessed the situation and, amid the barking of dogs, politely told me that he was stopping me because he didn't see a front license plate on my car when I passed by his roost at the Holiday Inn , but now he could see that there was a front plate, so there was no problem and I could go.

I rest my case.

Hi,
Regarding the comment above: "the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack."
I am a county employee and I have a different perspective. Most county employees, and I assume most local govt. employees, are Not making a salary equal to their counterparts in private business. (Law enforcement officers do earn a high salary, but did you know over 150 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the past year, most from car accidents - the point is we pay people more money for high risk positions.)

Many county unions over the past 20 years agreed to take less than adequate pay increases in exchange for quality health care benefits and a guarantee of pension benefits. Recently the county has attempted to cancel health care benefits for retirees and the cost of health care benefits for employees has started to rise, requiring many to choose Kaiser, the lowest cost provider, while paying out of pocket for additional services, as I do.

The public is no doubt angry about the economy sliding down hill, foreclosures, unemployment, etc., and the govt. salaries and benefits have become a prime target for that anger. Many govt. agencies will be changing their pension plans for newly hired employees - they have that right. However, I think it would be extremely unjust to take away pension benefits from current employees, as they are doing great work for this county, and as I said above, they are not earning a salary equal to private enterprise. In many cases, they stuck with their govt. job because they were providing a service they felt good about, and also, in part, due to the benefits packages and health benefits that were promised.

I'll take any comments off the air. :-) SW

I read the statement below about Sebastopol PD writing more tickets than any city in the county and wondered if this was accurate as no statistics or reference were included. A quick web search revealed that in this specific link (https://speedtrapahead.org/wordpress...s-on-speeders/), Sebastopol indeed leads the county in speeding citations. There are no stats in this article about any other vehicle code citations. As a city tax-payer, I see this as public funds well-spent.

In light of the discussions in this thread about Sebastopol PD being over-staffed, it's interesting to note in this article from Jan 2010 that Chief Weaver is quoted saying that the current staffing is the same as 1986, nearly 25 years ago.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

the sebastopol pd is very concerned about pedestrian safety. the tool they have is the vehicle code. they write more tickets per year than any other city in the county, including santa rosa. and people still get run over.

---

that may have been the case in the 50's-70's, that was the idea.
but the realities of 2000 and beyond, and the 90's, & likely the 80's showed people jumping from job to job. their is no security our there, and the "high pay", i guess i don't know anyone but some lawyers making "high pay", certainly doctors, except plastic surgeons & those in specialized fields are getting beyond screwed. thus, the fleeing to kaiser. try to find a general practitioner,internist, a regular doctor. my partner has lost 4 in as many years. the last one has been around over a year, so it is looking hopeful.
if you are making more than $20 an hour, count yourself fortunate. their are very few jobs out there now, and that has been true for many of the economic pullbacks, but clearly for 2008 on, w. no little good news. i know many chronically unemployed for the lst time in my life. i have many friends who are making $12-15 an hour. no benefits, who were making $30 w. benefits. people who are making $20 an hour w. out benefits are lucky.
my medical w. kaiser is over $1k a month, nothing like cancer to make one uninsurable, or very expensive to insure. i was glad when i got the kaiser, very circuitously, because i couldn't get coverage anywhere else. in 3 months i will be able to switch over to my partners "newly acquired benefits" after working in the same job for 16 years, a home care physical therapist, who had challenging educational requirements, yet she has not seen a significant raise in her salary. her paperwork has more than doubled, the time w. patients has been reduced by 60%, she "volunteers" w. some patients to cover them adequately. she made more $ 16 years ago in sf, because this county has a terrible reimbursement rate.
those who are employed at safeway are doing well. i don't think they are hiring. i believe in unions, but when they get greedy, they sell their people down the river. auto industry has other issues, but that is a piece of it.
this post was about police, & this will takes us far in another direction.
although i believe we have a too aggressive dept. & too many police for this town, i stood up for police pay (& teacher pay), & here for doctor pay, which is a good portion a county pay.
regardless of money, i don't want my officers sitting outside of restaurants & bars, waitning to stop sober patrons. the writing is on the wall in calistoga, & we are starting down that path.
i don't want people stopped for a registration someone thinks might be expired, or a front license plate they "thought" was missing.
these incidents, and more are common.
again. haven't been harrased directly, so it's not from my own anger. friends, partners, visitors, teens & more. too many stories, & i have witnessed several of them.
not anti-law enforcement. want good cost-effective law enforcement centered on prevention.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by stevenw:

Hi,
Regarding the com ment above: "the retirement for most govt employees, as well as benefits, are way out of whack."
I am a county employee and I have a different perspective. Most county employees, and I assume most local govt. employees, are Not making a salary equal to their counterparts in private business. (Law enforcement officers do earn a high salary, but did you know over 150 police officers were killed in the line of duty in the past year, most from car accidents - the point is we pay people more money for high risk positions.) Many county unions over the past 20 years agreed to take less than adequate pay increases in exchange for quality health care benefits and a guarantee of pension benefits. Recently the county has attempted to cancel health care benefits for retirees and the cost of health care benefits for employees has started to rise, requiring many to choose Kaiser, the lowest cost provider, while paying out of pocket for additional services, as I do. The public is no doubt angry about the economy sliding down hill, foreclosures, unemployment, etc., and the govt. salaries and benefits have become a prime target for that anger. Many govt. agencies will be changing their pension plans for newly hired employees - they have that right. However, I think it would be extremely unjust to take away pension benefits from current employees, as they are doing great work for this county, and as I said above, they are not earning a salary equal to private enterprise. In many cases, they stuck with their govt. job because they were providing a service they felt good about, and also, in part, due to the benefits packages and health benefits that were promised.
I'll take any comments off the air. :-) SW

---

chief weaver shared the statistics with me himself. you found just the beginning of the story. sebastopol has different policing than everywhere else in the county. chief weaver wasn't counting all the reserve officers. i guess it depends who you are. if you're a little bit different, doing something unusual, you are suspect and will be stopped and questioned, at least. sebastopol has one of the highest police cost per citizen per year of sonoma county municipalities. and the department pulls in lots of volunteer/reserve officer energy as well. thats why they can do what they do.

wether you think this is good or bad, the question is what kind of town/society do you want to live in? yes crime stats in sebastopol are very low, that is also true in surrounding west county communities, where sheriff presence is way less, you really need to call them.

i believe, practice, and work for restorative justice. thats when the community comes together to create justice when harm has happened. how can we prevent another teenager from getting run over on 116? or another old person on 12? i agree with chief weaver that traffic is this towns biggest problem. after i was judged not guilty, he was approached to be in a restorative circle with me about my ticket. thats a format where everybody present agrees to listen(if someone does go talk to him be prepared to listen, he has a lot to say). he turned it down, even though he says he supports and believes in restorative justice. this is why i am writing on wacco, as an advocate for restorative justice.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Cheingrand:

I read the statement below about Sebastopol PD writing more tickets than any city in the county and wondered if this was accurate as no statistics or reference were included. A quick web search revealed that in this specific link (https://speedtrapahead.org/wordpress...s-on-speeders/), Sebastopol indeed leads the county in speeding citations. There are no stats in this article about any other vehicle code citations. As a city tax-payer, I see this as public funds well-spent.

In light of the discussions in this thread about Sebastopol PD being over-staffed, it's interesting to note in this article from Jan 2010 that Chief Weaver is quoted saying that the current staffing is the same as 1986, nearly 25 years ago.

---

what if i have done all you recommend and then some? for the last three years i have taught a weekly class for inmates in nonviolent communication at the north county jail. in february i'm scheduled to lead a two hour training with the forty deputies of the mental health mod of the main jail(if they still let me after reading what i have been writing on wacco!). i know many law enforcement officers and have a different opinion of each one of them. in my four hour ride around with the sebastopol pd the longest interaction with the public i witnessed made me very sad. everyone struggled in the situation and the police were definitely the most armored in many meanings of the word.

the police are empowered by society. and they have a lot of power. to dismiss those who question and challenge the job they do, to give the police unquestioning support, is dangerous. in this discussion i name the dangers economic segregation, and roads suitable only for cars. small issues really, unless you are personally effected.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

---

now when i tell my friends this town is a speed trap, & if they can find something to stop you for & ticket you they will. have never had a ticket here for speeding. i am not proud to say that my town is known as a speed trap, that officers wait outside bar/restaurants like the hop monk & challenge people. that sounds like a police state & a town that dervives revenue from tix.
i do not want people driving drunk, nor do i want them speeding, in my town, or any town.
i think the stories that have been presented here back up this stop for anything, ticket aggressively for the smallest infraction. my stories are all 2nd hand, but i believe the sources, like my partner of 33 years who was sure she was not speeding. she drives slowly, and in those 33 years has never had a speeding ticket.
she felt over policed, and i agree. since she has never had a speeding ticket, and the officer and her were not going to come to any agreement, she took on line traffic school.
as a home care physical therapist she drives all over west county 3 days a week. for several years she drove to napa. she is a cautious and careful driver, and logs her a number of miles in her profession.
i drive significantly less than the average american, coming in at about 6500 mis. a year. (the average used to be 10k a year, it may be 12k now.
i am not proud of our obsession with stopping people and ticketing for the smallest infraction.
i am not happy when there are over 30 police, sheriff, and every other government vehicle on my road for a potential suicide (who may have threatened harm to someone). there were 2 helicopters as well.
it was funny/ironic in an over the top use of resources way, which is how this post began.
having worked in domestic violence & with law enforcement, this was not my lst suicide/homicide experience, tho, it was never clear to neighbors that it was more than someone threatening suicide.
i imagined it looked more like the stakeout at ruby ridge. we have a couple of photos, will find and post a link to one; warning this could take a month or two, (like visiting the station.)
i would like a town, that not only focuses on prevention, has a pedestrian & bike police presence, and again can find a balance between a the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law.
it seems to me posts are more weighted in this direction. perhaps someone could tally these. not sure how reflective wacco is of sebastopol. if it is reflective of our town, i wonder how many people are concerned enough to take time and action.
it is not on my A list, but i would support an effort if someone spearheaded it.
as it is now, i will continue to tell friends & visitors to be very careful here.
i would prefer to tell people other things about 'my town'.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver shared the statistics with me himself. you found just the beginning of the story. sebastopol has different policing than everywhere else in the county. chief weaver wasn't counting all the reserve officers. i guess it depends who you are. if you're a little bit different, doing something unusual, you are suspect and will be stopped and questioned, at least. sebastopol has one of the highest police cost per citizen per year of sonoma county municipalities. and the department pulls in lots of volunteer/reserve officer energy as well. thats why they can do what they do.

wether you think this is good or bad, the question is what kind of town/society do you want to live in? yes crime stats in sebastopol are very low, that is also true in surrounding west county communities, where sheriff presence is way less, you really need to call them.

i believe, practice, and work for restorative justice. thats when the community comes together to create justice when harm has happened. how can we prevent another teenager from getting run over on 116? or another old person on 12? i agree with chief weaver that traffic is this towns biggest problem. after i was judged not guilty, he was approached to be in a restorative circle with me about my ticket. thats a format where everybody present agrees to listen(if someone does go talk to him be prepared to listen, he has a lot to say). he turned it down, even though he says he supports and believes in restorative justice. this is why i am writing on wacco, as an advocate for restorative justice.

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

In regards to the Sebastopol Police Department, I have found them to be conscientious concerned individuals. In the past, while working for Child Protective Services, I worked with several of the officers in different capacities. I also have had the chance to talk with Chief Jeffrey Weaver on several occasions, once while with my son, a teen who attended Analy High School. For anyone who wants to know more about what the police or other law enforcement have to deal with, try talking to an officer, or Chief Weaver, call and make an appointment or drop by the police department and take your chances if someone is available. Or contact the Santa Rosa Police Department (SRPD) and attend the Civilian Police Academy.

As a former "hippie" and user of mood/mind altering substances, I had negative opinions about any police. When I started working as a "professional" and was given the chance to work closer with police I took the opportunity to do so, seeing it as a learning experience. I attended the SRPD Civilian Police Academy, and it transformed my attitude. They do a very difficult job, that most other people would not do. if you can, go for a "ride along" if you can, and see what they deal with. They risk their life on a daily basis in the line of providing for the public's safety and welfare. As with any position that is imbued with power, there are some rare individuals that may misuse or abuse it, but for the most part, the police self-police so that the few do not discredit the many.

As a final note, let me say that 12 years ago the Sebastopol Police Department impounded my car for late registration which I had already been cited for by the CHP. Although I showed them my identification and explained that I was on my way to work, they still took my car and had me have someone pick me up, not showing favoritism. I did not like it, but it was my fault. It sure is tough being a grown up sometimes... Bruce:Yinyangv:

---

I can't help but feel the local police are an enthusiastic tool for 'Revenue enhancement" whilst using the shield of "Public safety". Does anyone out there know if the number of traffic citations rises year after year, and by how much?

just wrote an extensive post about my history as an employee in the domestic violence field, my support of my friend who has more than 20 of years behind her as one of the finest chp's, and law enforcement officers i have had the pleasure to meet, and in this case lucky to have as a dear friend. (seldom a time she doesn't approach the window with apprehension. like parenthood, one of the hardest jobs you love, and sometimes hate.)

i have worked w. the sfpd on model protocols for domestic violence, which our citizen's police task for drafted, that became policy, locally as well as in many states throughout the nation. we also developed much needed sections on police training that became models for national domestic violence training, these hours of training are have been mandated into ca. law for over 20/25 years. numerous other states adopted some form for training as well. (domestic violence related deaths are the number one common denominator in murders nation wide!)

no question that police need more training in the area of dealing with chemically imbalanced children/teens & adults.
most of my roadside encounters have been positive. the one time i called law enforcement to my house it was helpful in the moment, over the long term, undermining.

i write as a citizen that is not only concerned, personally, and additionally has has solid professional knowledge into the workings of several departments.

nothing has changed my mind from my lst post, about the enthusiastic ticketing that frequently has more to do with numbers than public safety. i was the second thread to the lst post regarding jaywalking and the absurd numbers of police that were involved in this letter of the law christmas ever crime.

i would not want to live in a town with out a police presence. i do not begrudge their salary nor benefits. this is a job i would not want.
several days, many posts of mine, and full readings of others, i stand by my original thoughts of training, prevention, a foot patrol, bike patrols, improved personal relationships and visibility with the community. i think obsessive ticket writing where there might be an infraction, or a border line infraction, is detrimental to our community, police/public relations, and a questionable use of resources.
from the postings here, there seems to be a strong feeling that our policies have devalued respect for the department, created much resentment and frustration, and has resulted in a lack of respect for the important job of a police force.

there have been a handful of posters who see things differently. for the most part, the wacco community would like a more community oriented police department. if we can't see, or are not aware of the programs in place perhaps their should be a public forum where these are presented.

rather than visiting with the department personally a more cost effective, and needed approach would be a series of 3 community forums where the programs of the force are presented; most of us are ignorant to them, a second forum where a question and answer session is made available, so people can understand the police priorities, as well as followup sessions where citizen frustration can be heard.

last time i tried it discussing this with a sherrif the level of defensiveness was great. (i have had a lot of solid interactions with sherrif's where i was happy for their response, and presence. when i have a chance to meet with chief weaver i will express these thoughts. i sincerely hope prior to that time the police will look to host an early evening where they can present their programs, so we don't individually research, or take their limited time to be informed of them.

since the lst "jay walking" post, their seems to be a great frustration and some resentment from the populace. the majority of wacco posters, by individual number, seem to want a more accessible street presence including on foot officers, bicycle officers and an awareness of what prevention programs do exist. hopefully, this will be the last time i am compelled to post on this issue, until such time as i visit the station, or hopefully a community forum is put in place. if the citizenry is not aware of services & programs then visibility for such programs is needed.:yinyang:

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

I can't help but feel the local police are an enthusiastic tool for 'Revenue enhancement" whilst using the shield of "Public safety". Does anyone out there know if the number of traffic citations rises year after year, and by how much?

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

.... i know many law enforcement officers and have a different opinion of each one of them. ...the police are empowered by society. and they have a lot of power. to dismiss those who question and challenge the job they do, to give the police unquestioning support, is dangerous....

---

those are well-made points. My own early experiences with the police were with the LAPD and Santa Monica police. There were some really obvious cultural differences between the two organizations, largely due to the differing populations they dealt with. I'm sure the SPD has a pretty well-defined culture of its own. I haven't had a lot of interaction with them, but the times I've dealt with them they were actually really reasonable. If it were my department to run, I'd probably change its priorities but it doesn't seem to be particularly extreme in any direction. Still, it's always good to keep an eye on anyone running around with guns & the power to stop anyone they choose, so this kind of thread is a great use of this forum.

As far as the thread's digression to pension reform goes - it's not the "fault" of the government employees or the unions that they have the deal they do now. To someone living with a ton of economic insecurity, they're an easy target. And a lot of people with pensions seem to find it hard to understand what a luxury that is - even if in absolute terms, it's not necessarily a lot of money. The gaming of the system that's inherent in economics, either by unions, their members, politicians, or businessmen, is always fair game for criticism (re: the officer taking 'training' that's just to pad retirement income). Spotting them is important; usually the first to spot them are those who will exploit them, then (hopefully) they'll get spotted by those who want to address those problems. But the existence of loopholes doesn't indict the whole system. It was a conscious trade-off at the time to buy off employees by offering a hamburger Tuesday rather than a raise today.

agree w. many of your points. something is really wrong when15% of the population is unemployed, another 10-15% underemployed, & another big chunk doesn't have hamburgers on tuesday or a raise on friday!
it' is not just the economic crisis, i have always felt like people should have some deductible on their health care, people need to have a level of responsibility & be in touch.
feel the same way about pensions & retirements. the buck stops where people really can't take care of themselves. arnold made my blood boil when he was looking at cutting in home support services (one of the least expensive, cost effective parts of our health care system.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

those are well-made points. My own early experiences with the police were with the LAPD and Santa Monica police. There were some really obvious cultural differences between the two organizations, largely due to the differing populations they dealt with. I'm sure the SPD has a pretty well-defined culture of its own. I haven't had a lot of interaction with them, but the times I've dealt with them they were actually really reasonable. If it were my department to run, I'd probably change its priorities but it doesn't seem to be particularly extreme in any direction. Still, it's always good to keep an eye on anyone running around with guns & the power to stop anyone they choose, so this kind of thread is a great use of this forum.
As far as the thread's digression to pension reform goes - it's not the "fault" of the government employees or the unions that they have the deal they do now. To someone living with a ton of economic insecurity, they're an easy target. And a lot of people with pensions seem to find it hard to understand what a luxury that is - even if in absolute terms, it's not necessarily a lot of money. The gaming of the system that's inherent in economics, either by unions, their members, politicians, or businessmen, is always fair game for criticism (re: the officer taking 'training' that's just to pad retirement income). Spotting them is important; usually the first to spot them are those who will exploit them, then (hopefully) they'll get spotted by those who want to address those problems. But the existence of loopholes doesn't indict the whole system. It was a conscious trade-off at the time to buy off employees by offering a hamburger Tuesday rather than a raise today.

---

Just thought I would quickly chime in and say that the numbers and tone of comments does not necessarily represent the greater body of folks on WaccoBB.net. This thread has posts from folks who felt the desire to post here. I, for one, appreciate the clear message that speeding and traffic violations are not tolerated here. I can actually drive the speed limit and not get tail-gated by impatient drivers.

As for too large of a police presence? There are two police officers on for one shift in the 24 hour day and three police officers on the second shift. That does not feel over-policed to me.

I am sure people have had negative experiences. At the same time, I recently have had some great interactions with local police officers as well as Chief Weaver.

This is the first town I have lived where local on-duty officers smile back or wave when my children wave at them. My kids are not afraid of the police here. It was hard to convince them that police are "helpers" when we lived in other towns.

FYI - something I recently learned: The front doors of the police stationed have never been locked. There is always someone at the front desk 24/7/365 and available to help even if officers on patrol are busy. I find that comforting.

There have been some great point of feedback in this thread. I recommend calling up Chief Weaver and setting up a meeting to bring forth anything that you feel is important. This is our town. The police work for us and I have found them quite responsive when I approach them in a meeting format.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

the majority of wacco posters, by individual number, seem to want a more accessible street presence including on foot officers, bicycle officers and an awareness of what prevention programs do exist. hopefully, this will be the last time i am compelled to post on this issue, until such time as i visit the station, or hopefully a community forum is put in place. if the citizenry is not aware of services & programs then visibility for such programs is needed.:yinyang:

---

I contacted Sebastopol Police Chief Weaver about the J-Walking incident (quoted below) that kicked off this thread. He was kind enough to reply with the following explanation, which seems quite reasonable to me:

Hi, Barry -

I stopped by work this evening and got the story about the pedestrian citation.

This occurred about 3:10 in the afternoon on Christmas Eve. One of our three on-duty officers was conducting a downtown foot patrol. He had a police explorer with him.

A pedestrian entered the crosswalk in front of the officer against the red "don't walk" signal. The officer called to the pedestrian, advising them they needed to return to the sidewalk as it was illegal to cross against the "don't walk" signal.

The pedestrian immediately started berating the officer, explaining that the officer was wasting her time and her money by enforcing this pedestrian law. She added she had a friend or relative in public safety in the bay area and she knew they wouldn't enforce such a minor law.

Seeing a warning wasn't sufficient for the pedestrian to accept their responsibility, the officer determined it was appropriate to issue a citation. Since he was on foot patrol he didn't have his citation book with him, so he asked for an officer in a vehicle to respond with a citation book.

An officer did respond in a vehicle. Also in the vehicle was a newly hired reserve police officer in plain cloths undergoing orientation.

During the contact, the pedestrian was calling out to others in the area, complaining about being cited for the violation.

We have issued a total of three such citations in all of 2010, including this citation.

The City has spent much money and time trying to make Sebastopol safer for pedestrians. This effort includes enforcement of laws regarding pedestrian safety, which are directed at both drivers and pedestrians.

While our main emphasis is on drivers who don't yield to pedestrians, we must also be fair and hold pedestrians accountable for violating traffic laws designed to keep them safe. It must be remembered there have been too many serious collisions in Sebastopol involving pedestrians.

We most commonly use warnings for pedestrian violations; however, when the pedestrian refuses to accept any personal responsibility, a citation is a reasonable outcome.

Take care,

Jeff

And here's the original post:

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

---

chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Orm Embar:

Just thought I would quickly chime in and say that the numbers and tone of comments does not necessarily represent the greater body of folks on WaccoBB.net. This thread has posts from folks who felt the desire to post here. I, for one, appreciate the clear message that speeding and traffic violations are not tolerated here. I can actually drive the speed limit and not get tail-gated by impatient drivers.

As for too large of a police presence? There are two police officers on for one shift in the 24 hour day and three police officers on the second shift. That does not feel over-policed to me.

I am sure people have had negative experiences. At the same time, I recently have had some great interactions with local police officers as well as Chief Weaver.

This is the first town I have lived where local on-duty officers smile back or wave when my children wave at them. My kids are not afraid of the police here. It was hard to convince them that police are "helpers" when we lived in other towns.

FYI - something I recently learned: The front doors of the police stationed have never been locked. There is always someone at the front desk 24/7/365 and available to help even if officers on patrol are busy. I find that comforting.

There have been some great point of feedback in this thread. I recommend calling up Chief Weaver and setting up a meeting to bring forth anything that you feel is important. This is our town. The police work for us and I have found them quite responsive when I approach them in a meeting format.

---

I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

---

Yes, it would be great if we could trust people who make obscene amounts of money to always be ethical and trustworthy, that we would trust parents to raise their children without abuse, that people could drink alcohol or use intoxicants in a safe way, or that people would treat each other fairly and with respect... but it seems we can't. People can't even figure out how to use their turns signals! I agree with Barry that we pay the police to protect and serve, and when they make a reasonable lawful request, that they be listened to. If they abuse their power, there are ways to address that! Sorry Rossman, I meet too many people who are intelligent but don't have a lick of sense... too smart for their own good...

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

chief weaver is skilled at politics. he told me the pd has higher polls than the fire department, very rare. many people have told me that they would never challenge the police publicly, that i am a fool to do so. i think it is far easier to praise the police, there is no risk in this. sounds like the woman in the crosswalk challenged the police, and received a citation.

i think a street culture where pedestrians cross at will with wisdom, like in berkeley and sf, is safer. car drivers need to watch out for other people walking and biking rather than police cars.

---

Quote:

---

I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman .

---

sounds like profiling to me.

i believe that the police could do a better job if they listened to people when they were doing their job. from chief weavers account, it sounds like the woman did obey the officers order to get out of the crosswalk. she then chose to express herself forcefully, and thats why she got cited. if the citing officer had chosen to listen to me, then she could have saved me a lot of time and the traffic court and sebastopol time and money. i think sebastopol will have more success in protecting pedestrians from cars if the community is more involved, rather than just depending on the police and laws. the crosswalk changes in front of analy hs are a perfect example of top down government unintended consequences. now all the kids are j walking and the bikes are on the sidewalks!

i wish police were less interested in politics and more interested in feedback from the public about how they are doing their job.
just ross

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

---

I agree that the public should be involved, and take responsibility for each person's behavior, individually and collectively. That is what is being done, with elected officials and public employees. Now, if folks would take a bit more care with their own individual actions, it would leave it less to those public officials to intervene. I am a visitor to Sebastopol, since i live outside of Occidental, but my son used to go to school there... I am not sure he was mindful of his teenage behavior and attitude all the time, but i did want him to be safe from others as well. And, I am glad we have this forum to dialogue about it, although I am not sure there will ever be a clear consensus. Why can't we all just get along... I'll do my part if you do yours...Big Smile:Yinyangv:

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

i believe that the police could do a better job if they listened to people when they were doing their job. from chief weavers account, it sounds like the woman did obey the officers order to get out of the crosswalk. she then chose to express herself forcefully, and thats why she got cited. if the citing officer had chosen to listen to me, then she could have saved me a lot of time and the traffic court and sebastopol time and money. i think sebastopol will have more success in protecting pedestrians from cars if the community is more involved, rather than just depending on the police and laws. the crosswalk changes in front of analy hs are a perfect example of top down government unintended consequences. now all the kids are j walking and the bikes are on the sidewalks!

i wish police were less interested in politics and more interested in feedback from the public about how they are doing their job.
just ross

---

yeah, all doing our part, what a wonderful place to live. teenagers are a hoot, and the future. i am also a visitor, living just outside of sebastopol, for 23 years. i struggle to be fully responsible for what i do, every day. often the response is, especially from the young, tmi! and that is the gift and burden of our time, so much info at our fingertips! in community, ross

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

I agree that the public should be involved, and take responsibility for each person's behavior, individually and collectively. That is what is being done, with elected officials and public employees. Now, if folks would take a bit more care with their own individual actions, it would leave it less to those public officials to intervene. I am a visitor to Sebastopol, since i live outside of Occidental, but my son used to go to school there... I am not sure he was mindful of his teenage behavior and attitude all the time, but i did want him to be safe from others as well. And, I am glad we have this forum to dialogue about it, although I am not sure there will ever be a clear consensus. Why can't we all just get along... I'll do my part if you do yours...Big Smile:Yinyangv:

---

Hello Good People,
This is an interesting conversation and I feel compelled to contribute.

Fact..People drive drunk.

Fact..People drive while texting and cell phone using.

Fact..People are killed and injured daily, both in vehicles, on foot and on bikes.

Fact..some officers and friendly, kind, reasonable and respectful..some are not...

Fact..Some people on Wacco are friendly, kind, reasonable and respectful...and some are not.

Some people will always be rude and unkind to police...no matter the circumstances. Some people will drink plenty, get in their car and drive down the road. Some people continue to argue and fuss even when they have clearly broken a law.
Many are rude just for the sake of it.
Its really sad to me that the police are subjected to this kind of heartless treatment. I can only imagine how they feel, knowing that the haters are at large, and that any encounter could be an energetic and emotional bummer for them.

I was personally happy the police were attentive to the new and wildly successful Hopmonk Nightclub scene, where lots and lots of people are most definitely drinking...and leaving in their cars !

I have personally made a point to be respectful and kind to law enforcement and in more than one occasion I have been given a warning, or lesser charge, primarily, I believe, due to the demeanor of kindness and respect.

I truly believe in the universal law of attraction. We really do get back what we put out. We reap what we sow.

If you want something or someone to be gracious, kind and respectful...be that yourself...Its a worthy experiment.

I agree with the part about challenging the authority of the police in this instance. I was tempted to do the chivalrous thing and rise to this woman's defense but didn't want to spend Christmas in jail, or worse.

I also agree that it is safer to use one's good judgment and cross the street safely wherever and whenever.

I believe many people are getting run over because these foolish laws about j-walking create a false sense of security. I've written about this here before. J-walking laws will not prevent people from being hit by cars. Teaching them common sense about looking before they step in to the street will. I once posted on this site studies that showed fewer per capita such accidents in those places where custom is contrary to j-walking laws. An argument can be made that these laws actually exacerbate the problem. The nanny state at its worst.

Teach your kids to cross a street safely and maybe the next generation in Sebastopol will see less injury and death from these sort of accidents.

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I'll agree with you that Chief Weaver is skilled at politics. That's a good thing!

Regarding challenging the police, there's a big difference between challenging their public funding level or even their tactics or performance, and challenging their authority on the street. They really need to be respected and obeyed out there, for small things as well as big things. That's what we pay them to do.

Being a former New Yorker, I happen to agree with you that crossing when you decide it's safe after looking carefully is actually safer then trusting the signals, signs and crosswalks. It's also illegal and for good reason. Not everybody is so observant, and that doesn't change the fact that you should obey a police officer doing their job.

Most unfortunately, pedestrians are still being killed on Sebastopol's streets!

---

I can not believe a person in the quiet Mayberry-like town of Sebastopol,
would react to a policeman who ask them to not jaywalk, with a "non compliant" reply.
My first reaction to this story was, "This person who questioned this officer must be related to a judge".

If this person did this to an officer in Texas, or Compton, they might have been tasered and jailed for assaulting a police officer.
Police are permitted to kill you if they feel it's necessary.
They are not to be questioned, or treated like they are your friend.
Police, since 911, have been given even more authority over us.
Anyone who "harasses" them is a threat to our national security.

Most wonderful Sebastopol citizens, you are blessed with a bubble of sanity in a world gone mad.
Do what your police say. Particularly in incident of little merit. This is where they can feel like they are one of us.
Do this for them, make them feel like they are ok in their judgment, and they will love your for it.
Do this and d your town will be spared the ugly reality of a Nation that is Corrupt and Evil from the top down.
Citizens and Police, working together. Give a little here, give a little there. That's Sebastopol.

Right or wrong, The Jay walker should have helped the cop do his job by going along with what he said.
Jaywalker needs to spend a little time in Compton. or Afghanistan. To recognize "a break" when they[re getting one.

This note was written intentionally outrageous. To make a point.

:rant:

I just HAVE to add my two cents here: I'm disabled, not in a wheelchair but most days I just can't walk very fast... Over the last two weeks, I've come close to being hit, almost every time by a pickup, but once by a woman in a station wagon. I was in the cross-walk, halfway across, having the light green, having checked both ways that no one was coming. In every event, the person was driving too fast, coming at me in the middle of a left-hand turn, and apparently looking for cars coming from the right - ie., running the red light -- rather than looking for a pedestrian in the cross-walk they are about to enter!! I wear light clothing, I carry and red&white striped umbrella which I literally WAVE as I'm crossing, and still I have to jump out of these idiots' way ... LOOK WHERE YOU ARE GOING! It's really no contest between your truck and my li'l body!!
Thank you very much.
Rant complete.

the police are us, not the other. i think we think of it this way to push away the work they do, so far away that it needs licence to kill. it doesn't have to be this way. there are lots of different models of justice.

when i rode with the sebastopol pd i heard the mayberry metaphor. there is opportunity here. energy looking for purpose. i asked chief weaver to do something different. be in a circle where he is another human being, rather than the chief in charge, for mutual understanding and collaboration. the offer still stands. now i am making it publicly. thanks waccoites! ross

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by KellytheSinger:

I can not believe a person in the quiet Mayberry-like town of Sebastopol,
would react to a policeman who ask them to not jaywalk, with a "non compliant" reply.
My first reaction to this story was, "This person who questioned this officer must be related to a judge".

If this person did this to an officer in Texas, or Compton, they might have been tasered and jailed for assaulting a police officer.
Police are permitted to kill you if they feel it's necessary.
They are not to be questioned, or treated like they are your friend.
Police, since 911, have been given even more authority over us.
Anyone who "harasses" them is a threat to our national security.

Most wonderful Sebastopol citizens, you are blessed with a bubble of sanity in a world gone mad.
Do what your police say. Particularly in incident of little merit. This is where they can feel like they are one of us.
Do this for them, make them feel like they are ok in their judgment, and they will love your for it.
Do this and d your town will be spared the ugly reality of a Nation that is Corrupt and Evil from the top down.
Citizens and Police, working together. Give a little here, give a little there. That's Sebastopol.

Right or wrong, The Jay walker should have helped the cop do his job by going along with what he said.
Jaywalker needs to spend a little time in Compton. or Afghanistan. To recognize "a break" when they[re getting one.

This note was written intentionally outrageous. To make a point.

---

OK. Well, we've heard lots of points of view and more than a few rants and off topic (but related) issues in response to this post. The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.

Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

We now know why there were 4 officers and a car present and why the ticket was issued.
The j-walker could have apologized, accepted the warning and went on about her business, but she chose a different path.
Sometimes you get what you give. :yinyang:

It is important for anyone living in, or going through town to know what to expect from the local police.
Respect and a good attitude are always a good start. The golden rule comes to mind.

I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority.. and the rest of us too.

Happy New Year Everyone
Make it a good one :waccosun:
Tom

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by photolite:

I've never had an ax to grind with the Sebastopol P.D. and indeed have even defended them on this forum in years past. Today I was finishing up my Christmas shopping downtown, where I try to channel most of my business. As I crossed the street from in front of Bank of the West over to the Playhouse I noticed a group of four police officers, with a cruiser, engaged in what appeared to be some law enforcing activity. As I approached I saw their attention on a sweet looking woman appearing in great distress. My initial thought was that she had been the victim of some crime or another but when I came upon them through the small crowd that had gathered she looked at me and said, "I took two steps off the curb and they're giving me a ticket for J-walking". On Christmas Eve!!
I'm sure the struggling downtown merchants must love this too.
Merry (anti)Christmas

---

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.
Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

---

true enough.

Quote:

---

I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority..

---

I wouldn't draw that conclusion at all! There's plenty of respect for authority in our society already, most of it misplaced. Maybe it can be redistributed a bit. It doesn't sound like she was all that out of line, no-one was hurt, everything unfolded the way you might expect it to. Sometime you just wanna create a scene.

i think resisting arrest, unless you are participating in a political protest & have been through trainings, is beyond foolish. i am always polite to "authority figures", usually friendly to officers, clear they have "too much power." something is wrong when we have the highest rate of incaceration of any industrialized country.
i have read the stories.
i still don't understand why there were 4 officers there. nor do i understand why there were over 40 law enforcement vehicles on our rode, for a suicide, potentially they feared an attempted homicide, along with the 2 helicopters. i worked w. the police for 3 years going out on domestic violence calls.never did they need that much "back up". i have a good understanding of the danger of those calls.
jefferson could not have imagined what our society has evolved to, but the "price of liberty is" still "eternal vigilance."
to have a quality society we need to pay attention to the good, & the bad, in many areas, this one is more obvious, & more dangerous than most. (though in my line of work, i have seen things that have turned my stomach, & except with close friends/students, i too am bound by a code. i can't eliminate the bad riding instructors/trainers, but i can promote/support the good ones.)
i am committed to working for justice on all fronts. also know that know act of kindness, however small is ever wasted. these work together well, when possible.:Yinyangv:

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

OK. Well, we've heard lots of points of view and more than a few rants and off topic (but related) issues in response to this post. The most important response, IMO, was from the Chief of the PD.

Coming upon an incident, things are not always as they seem.

We now know why there were 4 officers and a car present and why the ticket was issued.
The j-walker could have apologized, accepted the warning and went on about her business, but she chose a different path.
Sometimes you get what you give. :yinyang:

It is important for anyone living in, or going through town to know what to expect from the local police.
Respect and a good attitude are always a good start. The golden rule comes to mind.

I don't know if this was the right way to teach the j-walker a lesson, but maybe it will get her to think about how she deals with authority.. and the rest of us too.

Happy New Year Everyone
Make it a good one :waccosun:
Tom

---

i think talking back to an officer when being warned about a victimless infraction you think is unjust is perfectly appropriate. while you might get a citation, who knows? you might spark a community conversation about police practices!

the reason there were four police representatives there is because the sebastopol police have almost nothing to do. if they didn't work so hard "looking for trouble," they would be totally bored. when chief weaver refers to a "newly hired reserve officer" he is probably referring to someone who has gone through police training, is licensed to carry weapons, and is working for free to gain experience and contacts. the department probably pays a bit extra insurance or something. there are almost as many reserve officers as paid officers on the sebastopol pd. who knows, maybe more now, turns out law enforcement is like other careers in the us, more supply than demand.

why do so many police job yearners want to roll with the sebastopol pd? probably because its safe, easy, they are welcomed, and moral is high. chief weaver comes across as a protective mother hen, totally devoted to his department, accessible, the perfect volunteer coordinator. he clucked at me so loud when i went to talk with him about the city considering another law enforcement strategy it was hard to get a word in edgewise, and it went way over the requested time window! don't get me wrong, i like the guy, i consider him honest, lots of integrity. i am asking him to be a little more ambitious, to consider the possibility that the sebastopol pd could be a cutting edge training ground for law enforcement which includes policies fostering compassion and restorative justice.

i know this is possible because of volunteering at the sonoma county jail for three years and the exciting developments there.
how about it chief weaver?

Quote:

---

Posted in reply to the post by Icssoma:

i think resisting arrest, unless you are participating in a political protest & have been through trainings, is beyond foolish. i am always polite to "authority figures", usually friendly to officers, clear they have "too much power." something is wrong when we have the highest rate of incaceration of any industrialized country.
i have read the stories.
i still don't understand why there were 4 officers there. nor do i understand why there were over 40 law enforcement vehicles on our rode, for a suicide, potentially they feared an attempted homicide, along with the 2 helicopters. i worked w. the police for 3 years going out on domestic violence calls.never did they need that much "back up". i have a good understanding of the danger of those calls.
jefferson could not have imagined what our society has evolved to, but the "price of liberty is" still "eternal vigilance."
to have a quality society we need to pay attention to the good, & the bad, in many areas, this one is more obvious, & more dangerous than most. (though in my line of work, i have seen things that have turned my stomach, & except with close friends/students, i too am bound by a code. i can't eliminate the bad riding instructors/trainers, but i can promote/support the good ones.)
i am committed to working for justice on all fronts. also know that know act of kindness, however small is ever wasted. these work together well, when possible.:Yinyangv:

---