Re: redwood trees and depression
:Yinyangv: In honor of Native Americans, please put into perspective what is simple and well known. Native Americans had an instinctive awareness of all things in nature. Their's was to respect and take only what was necessary to be with the unity of earth and sky. Tribal people revered nature and God :waccosun:.
Trees are the standing monuments to remind us of our smallness on the planet. They represent what we are not.
Where I reside is a forest way up north in California. Here giant Redwoods and enormous evergreen trees are abound and fill the spaces of the sky. In rain or shine these giants emit a soothing comfort with their dark green blanket over us, whispering quiet conversations. Their grace and beauty is astounding. Without complaint these giants absorb carbon and take up noxtious impurities spewing 24/7 from humanity. In return the trees give the gift of oxygen, the breath of life back to us.
---And still, in all that is good about the trees, some would believe trees cause (them) illness.
Forgive me, but some find fault with anything outside of self.
With respect to what has been said in this thread, I beg to differ and know that it is my opinion. You do not have to agree.
What I would think is that Native Americans were most interested in useful elements emitted from trees - sources of medicinal healing remedies. That is not to say that saddness was off the charts. I am sure Native people experienced times of great depression with experienced poverty, death and natural events. Sadness plays an essential role in the nature of humanity.
Humans are greatly affected by their environment. Am I naive in thinking that depression stems from sources, not from an unknown chemical that emits from Redwood trees? Is it so bad to reject the dependance of so many lined up at the pharmacy, to dismiss their inability to seek any sort of self-healing. The sobs of desire for more soak them in finding more reasons for depression.
Why do people need new venues to blame for moods, now under tall trees?
No, I am not mean spirited, nor am I Republican. In and out and everything in-between is to make self claimed choices and participate in the events of life.
Extremely rough times fall on each of us at one time or another. A survivor, it's healing from within, together in song with personal strength, intelligence and an ability to see the trees through the forest.
As some are tired of one thing or another, so I am tired of the whining.
Seek and you shall find links to places of depression: i.e. google depression@someplace else.
Don't blame trees for your woes.
Rather, the Redwood trees should blame humanity for their demise and the grave destruction humans have brought to the Redwoods - worthy of a good cry direclty under their bows.
Have you visited the bare acreage, stripped of wood? Do you know that large trucks still haul Redwood trees to market? See the daily show on Hwy 101. For me, an extremely sad and depressing event.
Redwoods don't make it to the front pages, but live a pure and simple life. If left to their nature they can grow and lavish our planet far beyond our own existance.:heart:
Re: redwood trees and depression
I hope your reply was to other posts, Lydeeyah.. I certainly agree with all you have said below.. trees are sacred to me, as well, and I think it would be presumptuous to imagine that I know how native Americans related to nature, except that I believe they honored all aspects of nature.. as I try to do. We all have a right to our own viewpoints, IMO, and we each must choose our own path. There is no "right" solution to individuals' problems or concerns. I do appreciate the opportunity to discuss meaningful subjects with intelligent and respectful peers.. We live in a complex and rapidly changing world, and I think we need to try to communicate and understand each other, in order to create some kind of sustainable path, forward!
I would be depressed, by the way if redwood trees were removed.. and I too am saddened by the insensitive removal of trees along Hwy. 101 and other road projects. I think Caltrans should be required to plant several new trees to replace each mature tree that they cut down! At least that would be a gesture towards sustainability. Instead they want to widen highway 101 up north, to allow yet more trucks and car traffic. It's a classic case of lop-sided thinking, IMO.. ; /
Scott.
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Posted in reply to the post by lydeeyah:
:Yinyangv: In honor of Native Americans, ....
Re: redwood trees and depression
Two evil spirits I know of are the big branches which come crashing down and the tannin which eats holes in my truck paint. But then one evil spirit that abides in dougie firs is the splat in a high wind after the ground is thoroughly saturated. Unless you propitiate the spirit of trees they can be quite vengeful. There are ancient rituals involving the spirits of redwood rooters which only the people who came before Indians knew.
Re: redwood trees and depression
Here's something I'll bet we can all agree is NOT so depressing:
400 Acres of Ancient Redwoods Saved More than 400 acres of old-growth redwood forest on the northern coast of California are now protected. Over the past two years, the Center for Biological Diversity has been challenging logging plans that would have destroyed some of California's last remaining old forest. The area most recently in danger, known as the Noyo River Canyon in Mendocino County, has just been bought by the preservation organization Save the Redwoods League -- meaning the Center won't have to stay in court to protect these amazing trees. The area will continue to provide safe habitat for many years to come for numerous threatened and endangered species, including the marbled murrelet, a shy, seafaring bird that relies on old-growth forest for nesting.
Read more in the Martinez News-Gazette and San Francisco Chronicle.
From the Center for Biological diversity.
Re: redwood trees and depression
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by chollie:
Two evil spirits I know of are the big branches which come crashing down and the tannin which eats holes in my truck paint. But then one evil spirit that abides in dougie firs is the splat in a high wind after the ground is thoroughly saturated. Unless you propitiate the spirit of trees they can be quite vengeful. There are ancient rituals involving the spirits of redwood rooters which only the people who came before Indians knew.
Am I apropriate to go all the way back to the originator of this thread? anyhow I will, because It's my turn to speak.
As far as "Evil" spirits are concerned, are we humans not the determiners of what is evil? A tree drops its branches when it is done with it, or it was diseased, a natural phenomena. You might even think that the benevolent forces were "sharing" with you, because in the ancient of days, a little wood was all that was needed for structure or firewood for warmth. In the days before big saws and trucks for hauling, the only wood that was used was what the trees didn't need anymore.
As far as the tannin that eats through the paint.... mmm. is not the intruder the paint itself? Perhaps you are viewed as the enemy? Or your choice of machine/truck/paint. I've seen where homes, cars, trailers are covered with debris from the trees, and (we) view that as evil interference, yet WE are the interference, the plague that was never here before, the mutated versions of destructors that once were beneficiaries of the longevity of the planet.
If I was a tree, I would be incredibly vengeful, knowing that (through my extensive root structure that connects me to every tree in the woods) day by day, my home, my colleagues my friends, cut down butchered tortured and destroyed. I would find some way to change molecularly my very cells to help my Mother Planet (plan E.T.) (plant) (plant it) to destroy the cancer (humans)that seems to plague the planet, has already destroyed half (the middle east and Africa WAS once a lush, green place, with "the cedars of Lebanon" beyond compare) now look at it, a desolate wasteland, with the remaining pitiful creatures barely scrabbling for survival. Is this what we want??
Add to this the current destruction of Japan, and now that is infringing on our sacred air space... The ancients rituals, which is needed, has been all but been obliterated by the morals and ideals of the crusaders and the bloodthirsty warriors who "cleansed" the "infidels" out of the world to prepare the world for the almost an accomplished takeover, in which the natural resources of the planet are stripped to the means of a planet as a desolate, place of disease and hunger, if not in pieces.
The true caretakers of this world were hunted down, as a peaceful people, unarmed, by code and creed. If anyone know hows to contact these beings, or cares, perhaps transmissions could be made to salvage what may be left of this planet when we have had our day.(something say to speak to the crystal skulls at it's time) and Let those of us who point our fingers and say something is "evil" remember that we have three fingers pointing back at ourselves, and remember that we were first here to care for the planet, not to destroy, and before science got involved, things were OK, but now, since the atom has been split, things definitely not been the same. (Speaking of spirits I wouldn't want to be a entity particle-ized and endlessly searching for my other parts, searching for wholeness) I think that many of us are seeking that in these times? how about you?
Thank you for the opportunity to speak my opinion, I hope it help someone, somehow.
Re: redwood trees and depression
Reading your long note reminds me of something I once read from Eckhart Tolle. My attempt to paraphrase: he was explaining about some of his experiences on the a path towards spirituality. One day he found himself traveling in a car, his mind was criticizing another driver who was upset ,saying something like 'he's less spiritually attuned than I, doesn't understand how peaceful he could be if he was more like I'. Then Tolle laughed at himself, seeing that he too was just as upset about the other driver being upset, neither were at peace. I find it to be an ongoing challenge to share our thoughts without criticizing anothers awareness or making our personal awareness appear to have greater importance. My beliefs are we are all in this together, as a Native American friend said to me years ago "we're all Indians now". When I listen to trees they are accepting and continue to improvise and grow in the most difficult situations. I find it interesting you would be a vengeful tree....see how different all of our perceptions are!
Re: redwood trees and depression
And it was a joke!
(I'm referring to Post #32 in this thread. Barry emailed me privately to chastise me for not specifying. Did anybody not understand which post I was referring to?)
Re: redwood trees and depression
Wonderful!!!
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Posted in reply to the post by tacitus:
The grove was set to be cut when a number of activists came together and with neighbors fought the good fight and saved the trees. No one was more amazed than we were at our success! Research by Rick Coates and Janet Greene brought forward the concept of the redwoods holding fog moisture, creating the microclimate we now understand is part of the heritage of these western hills. Perhaps the positive feelings you have there are the residue of thankfulness of the trees to those who saved them from the chainsaws. (And that's as woo-woo as I'm gonna get!)
Dian
Re: redwood trees and depression
This is an interesting discussion. Diverse outlooks all within our personal spheres of reference. We all have experience with the redwoods in various ways.
I have such respect for the wood it gives. I've found boards of old growth on the beach that were weathered on some out-building for ages, got caught in a flood and hurled along by a rushing river. After some time in sea-salt water it gets tossed onto the beach and bakes in the sun for days/ months. And still when I pick it up this board of perfect wood is true. No warping, no twisting. My respect for the wood is huge, but there is no WAY I would cut down an old growth tree or even a mature tree for my use. Salvage is where my respect will take me. However I will say that I lived in an old farmhouse for 20 yrs that was built of old growth wood (sigh). Most of the old ones around here are.
But back to the topic of adverse reactions from the trees themselves, I'll bet that could be very subjective. For example, as much as I love butterflies and offer my garden to them as much as possible, I have found the Butterfly Bush to be extremely dangerous to me personally. The pollen or fuzz or something from it, worse from the old blooms, catches in my throat and a few times I simply could not breathe. I blithely planted one close to my old house and had to trim it back all the time and it always was a dicey job.
I joked that it was trying to kill me and I should tear it out, but I never did. Soft heart or soft head, yeah I know what my dad would say...
I would guess that the redwoods themselves are elixir to some and anathema to others. That is the way these days.
We can all respect them. It doesn't mean we can all thrive in their midst. Me? No thank you. I would want these fantastic redwoods at my back and oak trees and a vista in front of me. Viva Northern California!
Re: redwood trees and depression
I just found this interesting article about propagating ancient redwoods and thought it would make a nice addition to this thread..
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/u...gewanted=2&hpw
It talks about cloning and planting thousands of "copies" of ancient redwoods.. for the purpose of carbon sequestration, oxygen production, forest renewal, etc.. Whether it's a hundred percent thought out or not, it sounds like a positive step.. (one possible downside is cloning, vs. natural propagation would result in less diversity, hence less resistance to pests? )
Re: redwood trees and depression
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by hales:
I just found this interesting article about propagating ancient redwoods and thought it would make a nice addition to this thread..
https://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/u...gewanted=2&hpw
It talks about cloning and planting thousands of "copies" of ancient redwoods.. for the purpose of carbon sequestration, oxygen production, forest renewal, etc.. Whether it's a hundred percent thought out or not, it sounds like a positive step.. (one possible downside is cloning, vs. natural propagation would result in less diversity, hence less resistance to pests? )
I haven't kept up with this thread, as interesting as it is, but would like to offer something, having studied and taught a course in redwood ecology. A couple of worthwhile references on redwood biology, ecology, and human interactions therewith (these don't explore the psychology, spirituality, or metaphysics of redwood groves, however) are The Redwood Forest, edited by Reed Noss (Island Press, 2000), and Coast Redwood: A Natural and Cultural History, edited by John Evarts and Marjorie Popper (Cachuma Press, 2001).
Caution is certainly appropriate in discussing planting clones (and the carbon sequestration industry has become another corporate racket): humans have already altered ecosystems, locally and globally, by cloning species such as Monterey pine and Monterey cypress and propagating the genetic clones for horticultural and timber-harvesting purposes. These 2 species are rare in their respective, very restricted, native geographical ranges, yet clones of both have "naturalized" and are spreading in coastal ecosystems in northern California (Monterey pine is also an ecologically "invasive" -- I won't define this word now -- tree in New Zealand and other places).
Coast redwood ancestors (as well as those of its closest living relatives giant sequoia and dawn redwood) once, millions of years ago, were dominant trees in what is now the northern hemisphere. The 2 California natives are now restricted to habitats that were once more prevalent on Earth, and as such, are called "relict" species, and depending on how climate changes in the future, may continue to lose appropriate habitat for their continued evolution and survival. Planting redwood trees outside the native range of the species is perhaps not such a great idea, certainly debatable at best, and planting clones raises many other issues, including those noted, such as reduced disease resistance and other ecological incompatibilities. Unfortunately, replacing the redwood or (your favorite ecosystem name here) ecosystems that have been lost is not nearly as simple as planting trees, pulling weeds, or preserving them in parks.
The near-complete human pillage of old-growth redwood trees and the resulting devastation of the ecosystems they define is one of the great, tragic follies, rather crimes, of the "development" and "civilization" of California. The magnificence of the trees and the complexity of the redwood ecosystem have been dwarfed by the unrelenting stupidity and hubris of humans. The destruction of these trees is just another in a seemingly endless list of human psychoses. On one hand, while I find the solace or inspiration afforded by a redwood stand personally worthwhile, I also find more than adequate justification for directing righteous anger towards those who slaughter for profit -- and, in closing, this goes for the criminally insane purveyors and promoters of nuclear power and weapons. The Earth is our only temple, and its trees and ecosystems are as close to a god as I'll ever get.
Re: redwood trees and depression
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tacitus:
... And the defense point that made the difference was the concept of fog drip, researched by Janet Greene and Rick Coates. ...
"Fog drip?" Is that the erroneous notion that redwood trees somehow harvest water from the air and this adds up to a net rainfall increase? The only person who could think that is one who's never lived among redwoods. (Or one who never paid attention.) Redwoods suck up an amazing amount of groundwater. They are giant beings and need a lot of water. I've lived in a redwood forest for 16 years now and never have I ever seen a single drop of water coming off of redwood leaves unless it's raining. I live in an area that doesn't get as much fog as some others in Sonoma County, so your mileage may vary, but one thing I have noticed in the summer is this: my spring will slow down considerably during the daytime while the thirsty redwoods suck up a lot of groundwater. At night when their thirst is less the flow of the spring will double or triple.
I love my redwoods but I can tell you for certain they are net water users, not producers. And they do not drip water when it's foggy. Not in my experience in my forest.
-Jeff
Re: redwood trees and depression
Yes, Redwoods suck up a lot of water from the ground. They also get much of their water from fog. It is not physically possible for a tree to lift all the water it needs to its highest branches. Redwoods need to get some of their water from the air. If there is any dipping going on, its probably from fog condensing on the outside of a tree, not coming from inside the tree.
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Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:
"Fog drip?" Is that the erroneous notion that redwood trees somehow harvest water from the air and this adds up to a net rainfall increase? The only person who could think that is one who's never lived among redwoods. ...
Re: redwood trees and depression
When I moved to the farm that I created 24 years ago in the Sebastopol countryside, I planted many redwoods, for various reasons. Though they do take water from the ground, they also bring moisture down from the sky. They also provide habitat for insects, most of which are beneficials. They eat the few insects that are pests.
Plus that, they provide redwood fairy circles, into which I invite my students, boysenberry customers, and families and schools for farm tours. Having been raised partly in a Panamanian jungle, I like being surrounded by trees, which have a magical impact that we mere humans often do not really understand. Plus that, they provide the oxygen that we and other life forms need to survive. Reaching up to the sky, as redwoods do, helps me deal with depression during this time of Trump attacks.
I moved here to live in the natural Redwood Empire, not the commercial Wine Country. PLANT REDWOODS!
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Posted in reply to the post by Nendahwaab:
Yes, Redwoods suck up a lot of water from the ground. They also get much of their water from fog. ...
Re: redwood trees and depression
yup, it rains under my redwoods in woodacre when it is merely fogging elsewhere.
Re: redwood trees and depression
People who fear darkness may find the redwoods depressing. On the other hand, mystics, like St. John of the Cross, write about "the dark night of the soul." Poets like David Whyte write about "sweet darkness." Depressed Americans may go to overly bright malls to be inspired by shopping, shopping and strangers. I have descents, which are not fun, but are often followed by an ascent.
Some of the military veterans in a group I am in--especially those who dropped napalm--have forms of "light trauma," especially if they saw children go up in flames. Others of us have "sound trauma." I like it when the many redwoods on the land that I share with them dance with their partner, the wind, as they are doing right at this moment. I consider the sound that this couple produces to be a form of spiritual singing. Oh, blessed moment, here in the cherished Redwood Empire. Long after the humans have done their fire-power damage, may the redwoods, oaks, and other life forms outlive we terrorist, destructive two-footeds.
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Posted in reply to the post by lydeeyah:
...Am I naive in thinking that depression stems from sources, not from an unknown chemical that emits from Redwood trees? ...
Re: redwood trees and depression
Interesting comments, Wacco family!
I am the mother of a Native American daughter.
Many years ago, she came home from kindergarten one day and told me she had learned that all the Indians/Native Americans were dead...to which I replied, "What about papa, and yr grampa, and all the People we saw at the Pow Wow yesterday?"
My point here is that people (including many wonderful people who've posted in this thread)
frequently speak of Native Americans in the past tense (Native Americans thought, believed, etc.) ...just thought I'd mention that...
and of course not all Native Americans thought/believed or think/believe the same thing.
Actually, the same is true for those with European ancestry, or ancestors dwelling anywhere else in ancient times.
All of our ancestors were deeply connected to Nature. Some of us still are...
As well as other things, I am a tree lover, hugger and a singer-to-trees.
I lived many years in the Occidental forest on a small mountain and very much miss those trees...
I now live in downtown Santa Rosa under a redwood , sequioa and another giant (I think humans call that one a cypress ). My neighbor calls this an urban forest.
Oddly, I my small garden did better there in the forest than it does here ---the buildings block the sun here.
My dear PomoMiwok friend, Dennis Barela (singer, culture bearer, and ceremony leader) told me that his people did not live under the trees. I think he said something like, it's considered 'bad medicine'.
I think it is a question of balance, like most things.
And what season: hot bright summer or cold dark winter?
It can be depressing to be sun-light deprived; I enjoy that it stays light longer here in Santa Rosa.
Yet I find that I feel tired, when I walk from the sunny street to my rather dark little cottage--
I think it has to do with my body feeling like it is later/getting close to darkness, ie. resting time.
Then if I walk back out to the sunshine I feel much more awake!
But, of course--it is so much cooler in the shade on these hot days, which is such a sweet gift!
I have a friend whose young child was killed at a birthday party as he was running and playing, when a huge branch fell on the child...
Most often, I have experienced so many times when trees dropped their branches, just missing the places where the people were--garages rather than bedrooms, cars rather than living rooms, etc.
My experience living in a canyon in Rio Nido many years ago (rather than up high in Occidental), was that we frequently had loooooong respiratory problems, even though my young children and I led an extremely healthy life style.
When we moved away from there, surprise!
I discovered that the foam pads we'd been sleeping on the floor upon, had mold on the underside!
I Love Love Love Natura and the Trees and Darkness as well as Light, and soooo miss the forest, though I Love the Trees I live with now.
I often wonder about how the Trees feel about people living in wooden houses, etc.
Imagine if Trees lived in houses and used things (like paper and pencils and chopsticks) made of human beings. Hmmmm...
Here's a song I offer to you, from my Heart to your Hearts.
Sing it to the tune of "O Christmas Tree, O Christmas Tree", anytime of year...
Now is Summer Solstice time, and it would be Lovely and Powerful to sing to the Trees you live with:
"O Precious Trees! O Precious Trees! We honor you, we Thank you! (repeat)
(chorus)
You give us food, and paper too,
You warm our homes, We build with you.
O Precious Trees! O Precious Trees! We honor you, we Thank you."
(Feel free to make up some new words too--maybe,
"O Bless-ed Trees!", or "O Sacred Trees!" or "O Treasured Trees!" or "You give us shade, sweet air, too...")
There is a huge 100 year old oak at Isis Oasis in Geyserville.
I liked to take groups of children there, when we were studying ancient Egypt.
The last time I was there, the Priestess Lorien was still alive in her human body.
She gave us each a turn to use a stethoscope, to listen to the Heartbeat of that powerful old oak.
I'd never thought of that before!
And yes--I could easily hear the pulse of that powerful tree!
The trees' water is like our blood, pulsing thru our beings...
Wacco family,
I honor you, I Thank you!
With Kindness,
Dusty
aka gaiasophia
Now--I hope you step outside and start singing!
Re: redwood trees and depression
I just remembered 3 other contributions that redwoods make to nature:
1. Redwoods are acidic. My boysenberries thrive on acidic soil, so I use redwood droppings to make the soil more acidic. We just trimmed some low-hanging branches for a camp-out space for some pickers. This is the time of year when we pick and sell boysenberries. So redwoods contribute to healthy foods; people and other life forms have been eating berries for centuries. Yum! Yum! They are particularly good for men to reduce the risk of prostate cancer, as is eating tomatoes.
2. For years, I have taught classes within the container of a fairy circle, within which children and adults have felt the power, beauty, and authority of redwoods, which are awesome.
3. However hot it is in the boysenberry field, one can always find shade in the redwood circles, a good place to rest and eat, especially when it hits 100 degrees, as is scheduled for tomorrow.
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Posted in reply to the post by gaiasophia:
Interesting comments, Wacco family! ...
Re: redwood trees and depression
Good evening,
I am so grateful for your response to this post, it showed me that there are others out there you have similar thoughts!! Thank you so very much!
Namaste
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Posted in reply to the post by sabbathmaiden:
greetings, beings~
i have always felt a deep embrace, a cradling when in the midst of a redwood grove. many a time, i have felt safe enough to cry and let go when in their shadows. i'm not sure what "depression" is being defined as, but if it has anything to do with facing the sadness and unresolved shadows that live in us, i can imagine the redwoods' powerful mirroring and presence would put us in touch with that, which may feel "depressing." just my opinion, i think the "depression" felt is something that is already present, and allowed to be felt in such deep and tranquil places.
blessings~raven
Re: redwood trees and depression
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by marcwordsmith:
Over the last month or two, a few people have told me that redwood trees secrete some sort of chemical that causes depression. One person added that Native Americans knew this and thought that evil spirits lived in redwood trees.
The people who gave me this info all strike me as good, credible people. They don't know each other (as far as I know); these were three entirely independent conversations.
Yet I find nothing when I google, for example "redwood trees depression."
Anybody out there know anything about this? I'm very curious what the scoop is, if there is one. Thanks!
I've been a counselor and psychotherapist for more than a decade and here's my take on this issue:
Sunshine and bright skies do enhance mood as far as I've seen.
Darkness, dark days, bad weather (and perhaps reduced sunlight if someone's home is totally surrounded by big trees like redwoods) does tend to contribute to darker feelings for many but not all people.
Some people suffer from SAD (seasonal affective disorder) and bright light helps to reduce symptoms.
Also, many folks are greatly inspired by the majesty, glory and beauty of big old redwoods...
I hope this is helpful!
Best Wishes,
Hannah Caratti, LMFT
www.counselingyogameditation.com
707-494-7470
Re: redwood trees and depression
I planted Redwoods all around my house for all the reasons in these posts pro and con. So that makes me neutral . Right? At peace with everybody including myself, .......but more importantly the Trees....
Re: redwood trees and depression
We have lived in a former "skid row' along the river for 40 years now and have planted 13 redwood trees that are slowly redefining the property...love the grove they are creating...peaceful and essential habitat for our wild neighbors. This is a legacy we find optimistic not depressive.
