Acting Responsibly About Coronavirus-Please Join Me

Pat,

This is not a vaccine. It’s an antiviral in stage 3 clinical trials. Its a hope at this point. The only time this medicine would ever be used is when a person was already very ill and in the hospital. The US trials are being done some where in the midwest I read. Only those who have contracted COVID-19 and are now very sick would have even the possibility of being enrolled in such a trial. There is no way any medical facility would even test you for COVID-19 unless you have severe symptoms and flu and bacterial infection had been ruled out. There is no reason to be tested if you aren't sick and no one would do it.

The best we can do at this point is the personal hygiene things already posted in this thread then not worry about it. CDC also says to not go on cruse ships, and think twice about air travel if you are in a high risk group.

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Posted in reply to the post by patnicholson:

Is there anywhere in the county or the Bay Area where I can be tested? I am at risk for acquiring the virus
based on the established parameters for who is most at risk.

Do I email Gilead to be included in testing trials?...

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I don't think anyone should be "banned" for posting information that may help people. It reminds me of books that have been banned in the past.

https://theweek.com/articles/459795/17-americas-most-surprising-banned-books

Banning is an action that is initiated by fear. Sometimes it's appropriate to ban certain things, like assault weapons for the general public, even though it hasn't seemed to prevent sale and purchase.

I wish certain TV programs would be prohibited for children, but then it's really up to the parents/guardians to do that.

I don't appreciate censorship for an adult audience. Adults need to be free to make their own decisions, even when others don't think they're capable. However, I like Quora's position of Be Nice Be Respectful, or face being banned. This policy makes sense. Obviously, we've all made poor decisions, but hopefully we've learned from these.

As for options regarding our protection from the flu or the recent Covid-19, there are many suggestions, in addition to the standard ones we all know about.

I appreciate having the opportunity to learn about treatments I've never heard of, so I hope these posts won't be censored because someone is offended. It seems that being "offended" is a psychological issue, which really does nothing useful.

As a conscious community, let's be respectful of everyone's posts even if we don't agree with them. :heart:

As the creator of this thread...I would much appreciate if we stay with my intended topic, which is how we can act responsibly to the Coronavirus. That means helpful information that is calmly and in a friendly manner shared between us. So please, let's come back to this intention and now that it's been spoken, respect and leave behind the issue of being banned. If that cannot happen here, then this thread will be abandoned. I'm very sad to see it devolve.

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Posted in reply to the post by mpatterson:

Please see my recent post which gives more detail. However, I just want to make sure that you see that there are many respectable articles on how silver is a powerful and efficacious treatment for viruses.
In my work as a naturopathic doctor I am finding that there is fortunately more research going into nutritional supplements and herbal research. Many "folklore" remedies are actually being proven efficacious and scientifically based.

Sincerely,
Dr. Melissa Sophia Joy, ND

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Really?
https://www.newsweek.com/televangelist-show-guest-promotes-silver-solution-cure-coronavirus-1487069

https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/03/ny-warns-televangelist-jim-bakker-coronavirus-cure-claims-are-illegal-unproven.html

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-comp...04820-03062020

Old adage: "Contagion spreads on the wings of fear".

May our calm kindness and awake actions prevail. Jude

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Posted in reply to the post by wildinspired:

I do not mean to spread fear. I made my original post to educate others so we can act calmly and responsibly with care and intelligence, while maintaining a positive attitude. I ask that folks don't use this thread to spread fear and panic. Please join me in proactive and smart precautions. Thank you!

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Susan, I agree that the intended topic is about the Coronavirus and how we can act responsibly by sharing information that may be helpful to readers. How would you feel if your posts about this topic were banned or relegated to being posted only in "Censored and Uncensored"? This has happened to one of our members who posted information on this topic. I'm still trying to understand why. Even if the information is controversial; it still has a right to be shared. Many topics on here are controversial, such as the vaccine issue, on which I'll be posting some new information. It may be seen as "fake news", but it depends on the viewer's perception.

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Posted in reply to the post by wildinspired:

As the creator of this thread...I would much appreciate if we stay with my intended topic, which is how we can act responsibly to the Coronavirus. That means helpful information that is calmly and in a friendly manner shared between us. So please, let's come back to this intention and now that it's been spoken, respect and leave behind the issue of being banned. If that cannot happen here, then this thread will be abandoned. I'm very sad to see it devolve.

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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:

Susan, I agree that the intended topic is about the Coronavirus and how we can act responsibly by sharing information that may be helpful to readers. How would you feel if your posts about this topic were banned or relegated to being posted only in "Censored and Uncensored"? This has happened to one of our members who posted information on this topic. I'm still trying to understand why. Even if the information is controversial; it still has a right to be shared. Many topics on here are controversial, such as the vaccine issue, on which I'll be posting some new information. It may be seen as "fake news", but it depends on the viewer's perception.

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well, questions of fact really don't depend on the viewer's perception. Unless you agree with KellyAnn Conway, there isn't such a thing as 'alternative facts'. It's perfectly legitimate to question the conclusions of mainstream science, but it's not reasonable to expect to be put on equal footing. So being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense. Sure, put out a caveat that there are people who strongly disagree with the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, and who have cunning or innovative suggestions about how to treat yourself or what they think has worked for them. But the topic of this thread, 'acting responsibly', seems to imply a focus on better substantiated factual information

Sending much appreciations for all of you for participating in this thread! I think a lot of good information has been shared here and I hope that will continue. May we all be well in body, mind and spirit! ...Being proactive, taking wise steps for prevention and being kind to one another in a collectively based sense of protection and love for all.

In the words of Hafiz:

Fear is the cheapest room in the house,

I’d like to see you in better living conditions.

As I said previously, banning is based in fear. We can see it from our history where truth has been banned from our history books, and replaced with false facts by those who wish to control us.

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Posted in reply to the post by wildinspired:

Sending much appreciations for all of you for participating in this thread! I think a lot of good information has been shared here and I hope that will continue. May we all be well in body, mind and spirit! ...Being proactive, taking wise steps for prevention and being kind to one another in a collectively based sense of protection and love for all.

In the words of Hafiz:

Fear is the cheapest room in the house,

I’d like to see you in better living conditions.

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Well said! I would add that an opinion about matters of scientific fact, by someone with no expertise on the subject and with no substantiation with scientifically rigorous experimentation or observation, does not count as information.

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Posted in reply to the post by podfish:

well, questions of fact really don't depend on the viewer's perception. Unless you agree with KellyAnn Conway, there isn't such a thing as 'alternative facts'. It's perfectly legitimate to question the conclusions of mainstream science, but it's not reasonable to expect to be put on equal footing. So being moved to a separate area, where red-pillers and sheeple can duke it, out makes sense. Sure, put out a caveat that there are people who strongly disagree with the consensus view of the scientific and medical communities, and who have cunning or innovative suggestions about how to treat yourself or what they think has worked for them. But the topic of this thread, 'acting responsibly', seems to imply a focus on better substantiated factual information

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Taking the Fear Out of Coronavirus

Joan Borysenko, PhD

https://www.joanborysenko.com/2020/0...c9640bf6#video

I have posted about my moderation of coronavirus information posts on WaccoBB here. If you wish to comment about my moderation you can do so there. Let's keep this thread focused on general interest information and comments on coronavirus.

You can use the thread "Coronavirus: Colloidal Silver therapy" and "Coronavirus: Alternative Therapies" for these special interest topics.

More reasonable threads than the "censored and uncensored" categories. I appreciate that you're showing a more open mind, and a way for us to get information on alternative therapies. such as Colloidal Silver and Electrotherapy, and even others that haven't been mentioned yet.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I have posted about my moderation of coronavirus information posts on WaccoBB here. If you wish to comment about my moderation you can do so there. Let's keep this thread focused on general interest information and comments on coronavirus.

You can use the thread "Coronavirus: Colloidal Silver therapy" and "Coronavirus: Alternative Therapies" for these special interest topics.

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Barry, I think you have been doing an excellent job of moderating this discussion topic, and in moderating WaccoBB generally.

Steve

Thank you so much Barry, for doing the great job you do with WaccoBBNet! I can see that there are levels to what you need to do as moderator and I appreciate your clear communication in a tough situation. This online forum, in all it's creative manifestations is a tremendous gift to our community!

Older Americans, especially those with underlying health conditions, should stockpile supplies and avoid unnecessary travel, a top official at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said Monday.
Most Americans are likely at risk of catching the novel strain of the coronavirus, said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. Older Americans are especially susceptible to serious outcomes.
"As the trajectory of the outbreak continues, many people in the U.S. will at some point in time this year or next be exposed to this virus, and there’s a good chance many will become sick," Messonnier said. "The reason to stock up now is to kind of stick close to home."

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Posted in reply to the post by Goat Rock Ukulele:

Older Americans, especially those with underlying health conditions, should stockpile supplies and avoid unnecessary travel,...

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I'll add a few thoughts to this. First- the real problem with this virus seems to be when it moves into the lungs - and tobacco smokers seem to be at a high risk. And while there is no data on this... I know many heave cannabis smokers who have a "smokers cough" as bad if not worse than most tobacco smokers I know. Yeah, yeah... many of them believe they are immune from cancers etc... I'm not so sure.

Second... I know there have been some moves to correct this but I'm unclear on any real action... especially for people with insurance- refilling medications usually isn't an option until it's almost out- so stockpiling medicine may not be an option for many. Talk to your insurer. The county. Your pharmacy *NOW* rather than when it becomes it urgent.

And finally... don't panic. As of now this is not a serious threat here. We will see what happens.

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Posted in reply to the post by patnicholson:

Is there anywhere in the county or the Bay Area where I can be tested? I am at risk for acquiring the virus
based on the established parameters for who is most at risk....

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So you were exposed? Self-quarantine and CALL your medical provider.

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Posted in reply to the post by BethLinley:

So you were exposed? Self-quarantine and CALL your medical provider.

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Agree entirely! Self quarantine and get to your doctor!

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Posted in reply to the post by wildinspired:

Agree entirely! Self quarantine and get to your doctor!

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Do NOT go to your doctor, clinic or hospital if you think you have the virus or have been exposed. CALL!

Thanks for pointing out that very important difference! I wrote in haste...taking a deep breath now...:-)
CALL your doctor!!

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Posted in reply to the post by BethLinley:

Do NOT go to your doctor, clinic or hospital if you think you have the virus or have been exposed. CALL!

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what would grandma do... let's do this. love, jude


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ey08XMOisiw

Updated info from the CA Department of Public Health, March 12, 2020.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CID.../ncov2019.aspx

Threat Warning: Corona virus live maps on the web being used to spread malware.

...cybercrooks have started disseminating real-time, accurate information about global infection rates tied to the Coronavirus/COVID-19 pandemic in a bid to infect computers with malicious software.

https://community.spiceworks.com/top...roups+popular4

Coronavirus outbreak: Canadian WHO doctor returns from China with critical COVID-19 lessons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUI6DIswmFk

Dr. Bruce Aylward, the Canadian head of the World Health Organization's COVID-19 mission in China, has just returned from Wuhan.

This is the most eye-opening, brilliant, comprehensive analysis of what we can expect and how things will most likely develop:

Medium: Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now

Beautiful video by Trudy Goodman from Insight LA! Lovely reminder of our community sensibilities at this time, using the practice of mindfulness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FK5ZJgQ3QY

Today was the first I got to see your response.

the Canadian WHO Dr. said asymptomatic people could have the virus and be contagious. Apparently it's
a small window where this would be the case,

The only real tool in the toolbox now is the ability to test and then follow-up w/the results.

Someone should ask why those50-100 people venues are closed but not Costco

anyone care to share what it being tested for w/a nasal swab? ( I got it figured out it's virus but isn't it really antibodies to the virus?) It seems some virus can be present but not enough to cause infection? It seems any infection should provoke an immune response , would be interesting to know how much virus is needed to create an infection, this has to do w/containment.

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Posted in reply to the post by Goat Rock Ukulele:

Pat,

This is not a vaccine. ...

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No it's not antibodies. The nasal swabs are for the actual virus RNA. A DNA copy is made from the virus RNA. I'm posting this brief article so you will know how it's done. As far as how much virus it takes to infect you. I think you can think about it like how many sperm cells it takes to become pregnant. There is no exact number but in theory 1.


How do we test for coronavirus, anyway?
A rundown of the biology behind testing for a virus we hadn't seen before.
JOHN TIMMER - 2/3/2020, 2:30 PM

When Chinese health authorities were first confronted with the outbreak, it had a disturbing familiarity. They had already dealt with a similar set of symptoms during the SARS outbreak in the early 2000s and had seen the spread of MERS a decade later. Thanks to these and related viruses, we already had a detailed description of the structure of the typical coronavirus genome as early as 2005. That knowledge would undoubtedly prove essential for the first step in developing a rapid diagnostic test: characterization of the genome of the new virus, 2019-nCoV.

Because we know what the average coronavirus looks like, we have been able to identify areas that don't change much over the evolution of new members of this family of viruses. And that allows us to obtain sequences of its genome without first isolating the virus.

The first challenge of sequencing a coronavirus genome is that it's made of RNA rather than DNA. Most of our tools for working with nucleic acids are specific to DNA. Fortunately, we've discovered an enzyme called "reverse transcriptase" that takes RNA and makes a DNA copy of it—transcription is the copying of DNA into RNA; this enzyme does the opposite, hence the name. (Reverse transcriptase was first identified in other RNA viruses that need to be copied into DNA as part of infection.) Using reverse transcriptase, researchers were able to make DNA copies of parts of 2019-nCoV as a first step to studying its genome.

But reverse transcription of samples from infected individuals would simply create a mess of DNA fragments from everything present: the patient's own cells, harmless bacteria, and so on. Fortunately, DNA sequencing and analysis techniques have become so advanced that it's now possible to just sequence the whole mess, irrelevant stuff and all, and let computers sort out what's present. Software is able to take what we know about the average coronavirus genome and identify all of the fragments of sequence that look like they came from a coronavirus. Other software can determine how all these fragments overlap and then stitch them together, producing a near-complete coronavirus genome.

At this point, Chinese health authorities recognized that the virus involved in these infections was new, and they rapidly published the virus's genome sequence so that other health organizations could be prepared.

From genome to sampling

To make a diagnostic test specific to 2019-nCoV, researchers had to look for areas of its genome that don't change rapidly over coronavirus evolution but have changed enough in this branch of the family that they can be viewed as its distinctive signature. Those sequences can be used to design a means of amplifying a piece of the 2019-nCoV genome using a technique called the polymerase chain reaction, or PCR.

We won't go into all of the technical details of how PCR works, in part because we've already done so. For the purposes of understanding the diagnostic test, all you have to know is that you need to design two small pieces of DNA that match (meaning they can base pair with) two sections of the genome a few hundred base pairs apart. These small pieces of DNA are called "primers." PCR will amplify the section of DNA between the two primers.

FURTHER READING

DNA sequencing part 2: ligases and PCR

It does this by putting the DNA through heating and cooling cycles in the presence of enzymes that copy DNA. Each time through the cycle, the enzymes can make two new copies of the section between the primers. Using this process, it's possible to take a stretch of DNA that's extremely rare and produce billions of copies of it.

But PCR works with DNA, and the coronavirus is made of RNA. So we need to use reverse transcriptase first before trying to perform PCR. Fortunately, companies have developed solutions that have all the enzymes and raw materials that both reactions need, allowing for coupled reverse transcriptase-PCR reaction mixes. The combination of reactions has been termed RT-PCR. With the right primers, RT-PCR can allow us to start with a chaotic mix or RNA and leave us with a lot of copies of a specific piece of the 2019-nCoV, provided any was present in the original sample.

The problem is that PCR is so sensitive that it can also amplify small errors—primers sticking to a distantly related sequence, a distantly related coronavirus in the sample, or even contamination from the previous sample. Even though these errors are rare, the exponential amplification provided by PCR can eventually allow one to dominate the sample. Fortunately, people have devised a way of taking advantage of the rarity of these errors.

Get real

If the right sequence for the primers is present—meaning 2019-nCoV is present in the sample—amplification will typically start with the very first cycle and grow rapidly. Errors, in contrast, may take a few cycles to occur and amplification therefore lags for a bit. To figure out when 2019-nCoV is really present, we have to identify when the amplification happens quickly and when it lags. We have to observe the progress of the PCR cycles in real time.

To do so, scientists developed a dye that only fluoresces if double-stranded DNA is present. As the reaction starts, there's very little of that around, so fluorescence is low. But as more amplifications occur, the glow rapidly rises until there's so much DNA that sensing the difference between cycles becomes impossible. If the amplification starts early, this rise and saturation occurs early; if it depends on an error, then it takes longer to see them.

Thus, real-time RT-PCR (RRT-PCR, for those excited about jargon) gives us a way to determine whether a PCR amplification occurs because our sequence of interest is present. (It can also be used to get an estimate of the relative amount of that sequence is present, but that's not needed for this test.)

Because this is such an important technique, companies have developed products based around it. You can buy the fluorescent dye, enzymes, etc., as well as a machine that integrates the thermal hardware to cycle the reaction and has a light sensor to monitor the fluorescence. If you wanted to do this yourself, appropriate hardware seems to be available on eBay for somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,000.

Kits aren’t all you need

If you look at the CDC's instructions, however, you'll see little discussion of the hardware or enzymes. Instead, you'll find discussion of ways to avoid contamination. If a facility is doing lots of sample testing, there's going to be no shortage of 2019-nCoV DNA around, both from the samples and from the previous PCR reactions. Given the ease with which PCR can amplify rare sequences, this can create the risk of hordes of false positives. So the CDC details reams of best practices, like preparing RT-PCR reaction mixes with a separate set of hardware than that used to handle samples.

Another big chunk of instructions involves the details of appropriate controls. Some of those leave out key reaction components like enzymes or sample RNA, in order to make sure that contamination is not producing spurious results. This will tell you whether you should trust positive results. There's also a positive control, to make sure that there isn't something wrong with the reaction mix, thus telling you whether you can trust negative results.

That said, the tests aren't going to be definitive. We don't know enough of the virus' lifecycle to know the dynamics of infection yet: how long after infection does the virus become detectable, and when does that compare with the onset of symptoms. It's quite possible that asymptomatic infected people won't have enough virus for this test to pick up the virus consistently. So the CDC is still advising caution with people considered to be at risk of infection.

Still, as cases of person-to-person transmission outside China appear to be ramping up, testing without the need to ship samples to CDC headquarters in Atlanta could help significantly with our ability to respond to a rapidly changing outbreak.

Very informative. Thank you for sharing.

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Posted in reply to the post by M/M:

Coronavirus outbreak: Canadian WHO doctor returns from China with critical COVID-19 lessons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUI6DIswmFk

Dr. Bruce Aylward, the Canadian head of the World Health Organization's COVID-19 mission in China, has just returned from Wuhan.

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