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Accidental? Nah, it was your inner truth, I knew that. Context needed??? Yea, sure. Sounds like TDS to me.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
Liberal Tears
https://www.youtube.com/watch?=zOnI_6NhR2o&list=PL4k16X62ciwJ3xbK4gJqpqShmmMHktqUk&index=14&t=0s
Hi Juna,
No I do not support most of them, but that is not the reason I voted for or would not vote for him.
I very much support environmental protection and clean energy and that was a bit concern with his campaign, but I figured that what he was claiming to do over ruled the downside, and lets face it all other Pres's have had a much worse track record for completing campaign promises than DJT, like those promises or not.
Thanks,
Ken.
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Posted in reply to the post by juna:
Not exactly sure what you want me to respond to, the tax cut were for everyone and I suspect that he had to throw in some goodies to make sure that it passed and got support for the next 2 years.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
As for the issues with the poor, not sure what you are talking about. He is trying to end sanctuary cities which is good, and stop the mass migration over the border by putting a more fair and just immigration system. Maybe go talk to Nancy as she is the one roadblocking it all and causing the real damage in that situation. The caravans are organized events to fund all the folks to leave their country and overwhelm our borders so that the Dems can have a much larger voter base so long as we do not require voter ID. Very bad. Outside of that, if we are going to do anything it should be to help stabilize the countries on our southern sides and keep them from coming up in the first place.
Do you open your door to any person who needs food and a place to stay?
Why should we! As he says, it is to be based on merit and not just a free for all.
Thanks,
Ken.
Discussions with Trump supporters is generally a waste of time. They live in an alternate reality of "facts." It is not possible to reason with unreasonable people. You cannot reason with racist, homophobic, misogynistic, superstitious barbarians who don't believe in democracy or the most basic of human rights. They want a permanently White America and anyone who is not a straight WASP like them is instinctively hated as the "other" or the enemy. That is exactly what Trump has done with immigrants and other minorities. And Republican voters have bought this administration's lies and misinformation hook, line, and sinker because they are indeed racist themselves.
This shameful administration is the last gasp of the American Right Wing! Enjoy it while it lasts because Trump is going to lose by a landslide in 2020, guaranteed.
I'm with you on some of that. I (obviously) don't have a big concern about wasting time.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:
But not all trumpies are completely in Hillary's group of deplorables. Or unreasonable - 'reason' is a tool that can be used for good or ill. Sometimes it's true you're hammering on cheese. The part I struggle to understand is the idea that was well expressed, actually several times, that trump and his supporters "may not be racists (or ...) but they sure are comfortable with those who are".
As seen on this thread, some seem to be able to look right past the biblical beam in their eye and find the mote in others'. I don't recognize the trump they describe. They haven't been able to - or to be fair again, to have tried - to explain why the trump we see isn't the trump that exists. That's where the waste of time comes in to me. We get what seems to be purely imaginary representations of what trump wants to do and how he sees the world. Sadly this exposes what I've come to see as 'symmetry' - I know that they could write the same words aimed the other way, and firmly believe that it counts as reason.
Does this mean that you'll not be playing here anymore? :tear:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:
That leaves me with the same request I have made with Ken and Ron and you: please answer the specific questions I have been asking you. I have given repeated examples of some of the most egregious things the Trumpsters have done that appear to many of us as mean and cruel. So why don't you just tell us why they don't seem mean and cruel to you? And why are you so hostile and disrespectful to me?
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Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil:
But I still want to come to a deeper understanding of their attitudes and psychology. And all right wingers are not necessarily the same. People like Ken and Ron don't come across to me as mean and cruel. They sincerely want to communicate, and that makes me even more curious to understand them. Cyberanvil is another matter, but I'm still curious about her.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:
I totally agree with you that we should help stabilize the countries on our southern sides! I think the horrible conditions there are what drive desperate people to throng to the US, where they know very well it will be no picnic. And what meddling are we doing in those countries to contribute to the awfulness?
But your idea that the Democrats will have a much larger voting base doesn't make sense to me. As people become citizens over time this is probably true, especially as Republican policies are sure not deigned to win converts with these folks! But most of these people will not be able to become citizens for a long time.
Your notion that the tax cuts were for everyone is absolutely contrary to everything I have heard. The biggest tax cuts by far are for rich people like Trump and his friends who are already bloated with money. The cuts for the middle class were quite small and destined to end in a few years. Am I mistaken?
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Posted in reply to the post by kburgess:
Here is a great resource:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...5_13-08-24.png
A Complete Psychological Analysis of Trump's Support
Science can help us make sense of the president's political invincibility.
Posted Dec 27, 2018
Bobby Azarian Ph.D.
I highly recommend you read the full article!
Here are the main points (each of which is explored in the article)
Plus it includes the following fascinating video... again worth a full watch!
- Practicality Trumps Morality
- The Brain’s Attention System Is More Strongly Engaged by Trump
- America’s Obsession with Entertainment and Celebrities
- “Some Men Just Want to Watch the World Burn.”
- The Fear Factor: Conservatives Are More Sensitive to Threat
- The Power of Mortality Reminders and Perceived Existential Threat
- The Dunning-Kruger Effect: Humans Often Overestimate Their Political Expertise
- Relative Deprivation — A Misguided Sense of Entitlement
- Lack of Exposure to Dissimilar Others
- Trump’s Conspiracy Theories Target the Mentally Vulnerable
- Trump Taps into the Nation’s Collective Narcissism
- The Desire to Want to Dominate Others
- Authoritarian Personality
- Racism and Bigotry
Spoiler alert: The answer is... LSD! :crazysmile:
kburgess wrote:
This is undeniably true. - Unless there was voter fraud via the Diebold voting machines - which is altogether in the realm of the possible. But it is true that a LOT of people do love what he is doing. That reality is still a little mysterious to me, since I can see the downside & the darkness on the periphery of "what he is doing" pretty clearly.Quote:
This COUNTRY elected him, and the Left has been doing everything possible to disqualify him and that election. Clearly CA is not the State that elected him, and there are a LOT of people that love what he is doing. Go talk to them and find out the world that they are living in, and how he is speaking for them. They are NOT stupid, but they are also not CA, NY, or OR or any other deep blue State.
I also am not prey to the sort of good-think-fulness that it seems necessary to have in order to sustain "faith" in the POTUS. Nevertheless, I heartily agree with you, Ken, in your admonition to the members of the Forum here @ WaccoBB, on this Left Coast of ours, to "Go talk to them and find out the world that they are living in, and how he is speaking for them..."
I have one friend, out of many old acquaintances, who is actually pro-Trump. This fellow used to be a revolutionary, a leftist, and hung with the Panthers back in '68. A very unusual case, I will say. He's been in Oklahoma for twenty-odd years and has metastasized into being a Okie, himself. Red State fever, they call it.
I haven't given up on him as a friend, and we still talk - and argue - politics on the telephone. I think it is important that We are able to still talk.
I appreciate your analysis of the sad facts in Baltimore, cyberanvil, although you still couldn't resist some snarky insults.
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Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil:
Very interesting, Barry, thank you! I've always felt that personal psychology has a big role in orienting one's political attitudes.
I'm especially interested in the narcissism, because as I have previously mentioned, for some reason I have gotten on the Republican's fundraising mailing list. I get several emails a day, and they always refer to me as one of their top, special, and most elite supporters. Their messages are short and full of ego-pumping. They say that when I donate I will appear at the very top of their list and President Trump himself will see my name! When he doesn't see my name he actually asks why! They also say I will be entered into a raffle and have a special opportunity to have dinner with the great man himself!
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Once again Ken, to whom the question was addressed, gave a respectful answer saying that this was one thing about the current Republicans' agenda that he didn't like--while cyberanvil spits out her typically hostile response. What is eating you, cyberanvil?
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Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil:
Hard for a discussion to proceed when Trumpies are called Deplorables and supporters are all labeled as Racists.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
So why don't you just tell us why they don't seem mean and cruel to you?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Hasn't it been explained previously? Your questions are bogus. You believe all the negative adjectives and I don't. If I don't believe your premise, how can I answer?
And why are you so hostile and disrespectful to me?
OK, your a nice and gentle guy. But you associate yourself with the Democratic Resist/Label/Hate/ Destroy/ANTIFA/get in their face crowd and what do you expect? Sorta hard to pick a diamond out of a pile of dung.
Well finally someone has seemed to describe us accurately!! Ha!!!
As far as 2020, as you guys pretty much own the MSM, Google, FB, Twitter, and YT, yes you might have a chance, but if it was truly fair fight, you would not stand a chance.
Cheers,
Ken.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:
I know this isn't easy for you to believe, but maybe 'we' own them on the merits of our positions. As many great minds have observed, facts tend to have a liberal bias. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, but that doesn't make them right. (symmetry again, I know...)Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by kburgess:
The basic liberal policy for voting is not to require any ID for citizenship, so that anyone can register to vote, and thus illegals are prime candidates for the Dem platform. CA is their model for how they want things to go, and look at the mess that they have created here with ridiculous taxes, homeless, filth and more. Their plan to use the immigration to improve their voter base and eliminate the 2 party system is well known. How many R's do you ever see here on our ballots? Not an issue of them not being around, but there is no requirement that all positions have 2 parties running.
As for the tax cuts, I am not the middle class, so have not delved into all of the details. I am on disability from major cancer trying to make the best of what I have.
Thanks,
Ken.
ps- Why do you think that there is such a stink over the census question. It has been on the census for years until Obama who removed it and now Trump is a racist for trying to put it back!!! Hmmm, Think about it...
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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
What do the Twitters say?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
https://twitter.com/bobbyazarian/sta...101248?lang=en
another quibble. In a rational argument, the 'main premise' is a statement accepted without proof, upon which an argument is made. He's not offering a 'main premise'. He's offering various observations about trump's behavior, based on evidence. You aren't refusing to accept his premise - you're ignoring his evidence.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by cyberanvil:
Another false assumption. I'm happy as heck, but I'm concerned about your thin skin. Maybe I'll burn one and check with you later. :ew:Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Personally I prefer to avoid all of the psychology and stereo-lyzed opinion, and try to talk to the folks 1 to 1 on the facts of the situation and leave the speculation aside. We are not all knowledgeable in all areas but we do all have certain areas of expertise, and if we have a 'Dialogue' to discuss the situation of facts and only then that of interpretation, we can have a bit more rational conversation and possibly reach a positive outcome (or at least offer the best chance of giving respect, dignity and honor)
Not sure if that is included on the list, but just my way of doing things,
Thanks,
Ken.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
"As many great minds have observed, facts tend to have a liberal bias."Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
Unnamed sources huh?
False! Another fact with a liberal bias!Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by kburgess:
NPR: FACT CHECK: Has Citizenship Been A Standard Census Question?
Maintaining any level of positive talk and dialogue is essential and key to providing any sense of communal unity. So much of the time our opinions of a view are based on the conduct of the people expressing that view and less on the facts of it. I love talking to folks who are far outside of my political/value/... system, as I know that somewhere we can always find something of agreement of human value, and then to build on that establishes the trust to continue.
Good thoughts
Ken.
ps- as far as the voting machines, I think that Diebold and most of the voting infrastructure is held by more of the left side bias. That is what I heard the last time I looked into it. Personally I am for Open Source and paper receipt and Instant Runoff to simplify things immensely.
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Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
His various observations are bogus and I refuse to legitimise them. I'm not ignoring "observations", I'm dismissing them. Is that so hard to understand?Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
Incorrect! You are conflating requirement of registering to vote and requirements to vote.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by kburgess:
ID is required to register to vote
ID is not required to vote
Wikipedia: Voter ID laws in the United States
Thank you occihoff,
Respectful dialogue is where any conversation starts in its ability to honor other peoples personal perspectives w/o needing to resort to various levels of flame and degradation, We all want and need to be respected by and within our community for if things got really bad and we had to truly depend on those around us for our genuine survival, that would be one of the tests of credibility of who would be accepted to live, and who would be left to die.
Many good thoughts,
Thanks,
Ken.
ps- I also make it a point to sign most everything that I write so as not to create the exit of anonymity.
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Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Interesting,
I guess it is the veil of long vs short form and the representation of facts.
As far as the 'liberal bias', this representation issue takes place all the time, so we do not need the flame here, but the fact check is good.
Thanks,
Ken.
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Posted in reply to the post by Barry: