Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Thanks, wisewomn! I enjoyed your scriptural words of wisdom there. But they can be taken either way by those who dispute who is or is not "wise."
If cyber and Ray were not trying to join our community, why did they even bother to post? They may not have wanted to join in the sense of blending in with the group, but they clearly did want to join in the sense of being heard and creating a back-and-forth with others who were in the group. They were daring to wave their defiant flags in the face of the group they deemed alien, in order to create communication, even if their communication often--but not always--seemed abrasive.
And as I have repeatedly said--without getting any response on this thread--once I stepped out of the snarky vibe and responded to Ray as a friendly person who wanted to understand him, he immediately dropped the combat stance and revealed himself as a kind, intelligent, and even self-deprecating human being. It was an astonishing experience.
Cyber and Ray were not the only ones "throwing stones," wisewomn. They were flying from both directions. There are many of us here who relish verbal combat!
Of course I'm not saying that it was only the wacco community that failed in this situation. Cyber and Ray bumbled too. But their unusual posts on this site--especially Rays--began to give me insight into a social/political point of view that I seldom get exposed to in such a direct, personal way. It's a way of looking at things that is shared by many people, and if we're going to deal with it in any effective way I think we'd better get to know these people rather than just put them down. I'm generalizing here of course, not all of these non-leftists are exactly the same, just as we're increasingly beginning to see how diverse many left-leaning waccovian posters are.
As for Hitler--the classic poster-boy for Evil--he was horribly abused as a child, especially by his father. Who knows what he would have been like had he been raised by kind people? Maybe even Jewish people! For that matter, what would I have been like if I had been raised in his family? I shudder to think!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:
Thanks for correcting me on the Ray-Cyber thing, Occi. ...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
I share your shudders, Occi.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
I'm doing that now.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Thanks, wisewomn! I enjoyed your scriptural words of wisdom there. But they can be taken either way by those who dispute who is or is not "wise."...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Occihoff, you are wasting your time. And now you are wasting my time and that of the rest of the Waccobb *progressive* community too.
Cyberanvil and Ray were not looking to communicate. They were looking to dominate and try to "prove" to us what a bunch of hypocrites and lib-tards we are. The fact that Cyberanvil's choice of handle contains the word "anvil" is quite telling. If they really want(ed) to "communicate" and "discuss" they should join a con-tard discussion group.
After Ray posted the disgusting "gum control" cartoon and then the obnoxious "I'm with whore" image and asserted that Kamala Devi-Harris is boffing Willie Brown, I put him on my ignore list. (It made the daily digest much more pleasant, BTW)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
If cyber and Ray were not trying to join our community, why did they even bother to post? ...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Again, Glia, if I'm wasting your time you can just ignore me!
At least I'm wasting my time as a champion of free speech. Could be TV or something.
You too will just not respond to what I said about dropping my fighting stance and getting a whole different communication and view of Ray. The "I'm With Whore" and the rest were truly low brow crap. He was poking his finger in the liberals' eyes. But not everything in his posts was like that. He's a complicated guy. Believe it or not, there's actual kindness in there.
You will also not respond to what I said about cyber's cry of pain when he was excommunicated from our discussion group.
In general I figure that if someone is bothering to seek my attention, even if it's in unpleasant ways, it's interesting to avoid a combat stance and try to open them up with an attitude of genuine curiosity. As I found with Ray, you might be surprised at what you find.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Glia:
Occihoff, you are wasting your time. And now you are wasting my time ...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
.......In general I figure that if someone is bothering to seek my attention, even if it's in unpleasant ways, it's interesting to avoid a combat stance and try to open them up with an attitude of genuine curiosity. As I found with Ray, you might be surprised at what you find.
I don't think any of us subscribe to a cartoonish view of someone as all good or all bad. I also have no sympathy for cyber's hurt feelings when he chose to be provocative. If I slip over the line into something mindlessly provocative, I hope I can deal with my own hurt feelings if I'm called out on it. But they weren't really excommunicated, they were made to sit in the corner with a well-earned dunce cap. If they want to communicate with the libs, there's at least some burden on their part to do it thoughtfully and make it actual communication. I don't think Barry's idea was to provide them with an audience regardless of how they felt like abusing it.
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Why won't anybody respond to what I said about what happened when I reached out to Ray?? I just don't get the disconnect. Doesn't that give any of you just a little pause for curiosity and reflection?
And as I understand it, cyber wasn't just made to sit in the corner for awhile. He was kicked out of school!
As I said before, Barry has a right to do anything he wants with his creation. I'm just voting for more tolerance.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
I don't think any of us subscribe to a cartoonish view of someone as all good or all bad. I also have no sympathy for cyber's hurt feelings when he chose to be provocative. If I slip over the line into something mindlessly provocative, I hope I can deal with my own hurt feelings if I'm called out on it. But they weren't really excommunicated, they were made to sit in the corner with a well-earned dunce cap. If they want to communicate with the libs, there's at least some burden on their part to do it thoughtfully and make it actual communication. I don't think Barry's idea was to provide them with an audience regardless of how they felt like abusing it.
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Why won't anybody respond to what I said about what happened when I reached out to Ray?? I just don't get the disconnect. Doesn't that give any of you just a little pause for curiosity and reflection?
was that a question for me? sure, it was nice that Ray was friendly when you chatted with him in a different context. I'm not sure what kind of response you expect, though -- were you thinking some of us would say "wow, had no idea he could be pleasant?" No, he always seemed a bit diffident and pleasant. Just because he is on the same side of some really bad stuff doesn't mean that's what attracted him to it. I'm used to "good people" finding excuses why they can support Trump despite all the inhumane policies he promotes. I know they believe they're not enabling a deteriorating social climate. But I'm not charmed and pleased to find out Ray's no monster - I never believed he was. So yeah, no response to that part of your comments seemed necessary.
(and that's true of Cyber as well, I suspect)
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Thanks, podfish. My issue is not whether people could accept that Ray could be pleasant. My issue is about accepting people with a different political point of view on this forum. I now understand that Ray was not kicked off Wacco, like cyber, and I'm happy to hear that. Even so, I would like to see less wholesale outraged rejection of posters who espouse alien or objectionable points of view. More than that, I would like to see rejection replaced with more genuine interest in actually understanding them. People with non liberal points of view are common in our society, and if all we do is butt heads against them nothing will change. I want to cultivate an attitude of interested exploration rather than flat rejection.
Some people are really mean, and other than getting a deeper view of their meanness you won't get much from them. But Ray was not like that, and I don't think cyber was either. The fact that they cared to communicate was important in the first place. And maybe I'm just weird, but for me their entries on Wacco were generally quite fascinating and even entertaining. It was an addition of a little foreign spice to my intellectual diet!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
was that a question for me? sure, it was nice that Ray was friendly when you chatted with him in a different context. ...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
You're the man, when can we dance together again? I miss so much in virus world. And yes, tolerance is one of them! In our social isolation we seem to be getting meaner. Me too.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by occihoff:
Thanks, podfish. My issue is not whether people could accept that Ray could be pleasant. ...
Re: Not Looking for Relationship
Commenting on my response to "Hey there blue eyes"
I admit that I fell into a trance in which I was overwhelmed with my impulse to help a suffering woman. Was she really suffering? I don't know. Did I know this person? No. I feel embarrassed that I responded to her publicly. I got caught. Probably it was a trollwork. Experiences like this are the reason that I AM NOT LOOKING FOR RELATIONSHIP. Just when I think I am "all better" life gives me a lesson to learn. I am giving myself compassion and moving on. I did wish Ute Hagen good luck with her search for somebody to help her move out of her car. I hope she finds a satisfying relationship and a better life.
Star Man
