Efren Carrillo arrested on Prowling and Burglary charges!!!!

Ok that made me laugh :) :lol2:

Jessica

[QUOTE=Henry Bernard;168936]
"Hello Supervisor Carrillo, Officer Johnson, Santa Rosa PD. My partner and I noted you're fully clothed as you stroll ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

To all those, suddenly Christian, "cast the first stone"ers (no pun intended...
Get your scriptures in order. Jesus was referencing adultery with his timeless quote. But more, he was baiting the bear of the hypocritical religious oligarchy he so despised. The Sanhedrin realized this, but were powerless to respond. To do so would have been a public admittance of the hypocrisy. ...His quote was never intended to sanction illegal activity, nor forgive it without contrition. Adultery is a "crime" between two consenting adults, victimless but for the cuckolded mate.... It is a personal matter between two lovers and their respective spouses. Some would make it into a public discussion. Kinda creepy when you think about it....More apropos to our debate concerning Carrillo is Jesus' quote directly referencing legal transgression:

"Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny."

All of which sounds pretty darn reasonable relative Carrillo and his indiscretions.

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Church Lady must add 2 cents, in the hopes that she'll be made a scapegoat, thus forcing the discussion back onto its proper, action-oriented rails:

This made up stoner story from John 8 :11 isn't even in the earliest and most reliable Christian manuscripts and none of the Greek ones. No one using it here or in the other local media has yet to come up with the full line, either. Amusing. Won't even bother to google it. The earliest Christian commentators did not discuss it. Christianity only became such in name, a religion, after it was made a state religion by Constantine. This dim soundbite is not considered by actual Christians to be part of the inspired Word of God. Must have started up after they realized what a convenient bait and switch write-up this was for the state: How to proceed with impunity in all matters concerning governance. Because everybody knows the state is run by a bunch of adulterers? I dont know and I don't care -- b/c good luck trying to blackmail or otherwise coerce someone for the destabilizing sin of adultery these days. But, it is an example of politicized Christianity at its worse.

Jesus' teachings, which a few only saw fit to write down at least decades after the fact ( lovingly recorded, exactly how many years after his life came and went?) were quickly exploited by the state as a way to manipulate the populace that loved them. Nobody called themselves a Christian until Constantine came along. Whatever completeness may have been there to begin with-- now gone .

If this happened over here with an elected official , Catholic Central of the Bible Belt, Wichita, KS, the faux-Christian num-nuks and yahoos over here would not even need to mis-apply Ancient Jewish Law so fast that it would make your head spin... b/c the troubled man would just resign out of basic shame and moreover basic consideration for everything at stake including the risk of making the situation even worse for himself. Lemme know if county buys a helicopter for Efren for his back and forth transportation needs, maybe I can use it to airlift my elder outta there.

Me, too, and out loud! Love it! :xtrmlaugh:

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Posted in reply to the post by jesswolfe:

Ok that made me laugh :)

Jessica

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What would prompt this kind of behavior, removing the screen at 3:40 am in the home of a woman you've recently met? In the middle of the night, the veils are thin, our fantasies and projections seem real, the freedom to take a demonstrative act strong. I'm reminded of a few approaches I made to women, in the past, and luckily was never arrested for. I rewind and replay those today, in hopes that I may feel and make peace with the unconscious urges lurking beneath the surface.

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Jekyll had a proprietary serum, Efren has alcohol. Both are known as kind, intelligent, respectful persons when not under the influence. Both can be viewed as monsters when they are....

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With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Arthunter, I don't know if you're being cute, or if you possibly work for the dreaded "handlers", having been tasked to whisper sly innuendos. If neither, then REALLY?

"Hello Supervisor Carrillo, Officer Johnson, Santa Rosa PD. My partner and I noted you're fully clothed as you stroll ...

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Wow, arthunter.....that's the only word that came to mind when I read paragraphs four and five
of your last post.

It reminded of a scene out of a movie starring monologist Josh Kornbluth, The Haiku Tunnel.

In the classic scene, Josh goes into his boss's office to confess something to him and offer his resignation.

The boss, who has no idea what Josh is even talking about, after listening to Josh's minutes-long confession, just stares at Josh and says:

"I think you have an artistic temperament.

This is what I think you're gonna do:

You're going to go back to your desk, settle down -- and FOCUS!

And CATCH UP!"

Golly... and all along we thought the anti-fluoridation people are the conspiracy theory nuts.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

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I don't think this is a likely scenario, but it could have happened. It fits the facts we know as well as the interpretations cited by those calling for Efren Carrillo to resign. We don't know what happened.

When making decisions, judgments, and statements affecting the reputation and wellbeing of others, it's really important to know what you don't know.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

I'm living in a world in which big money rules ...

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Beautifully written Henry ... and my sincere thanks for your concern ( no sarcasm, I mean this ) ...

I have only added another possible explanation to this discussion, one that is based on proven past and present political sabotage ... it is you who has labelled this possibility as "paranoia", "conviction", "obsession" ... someone else suggested that my ideas are those of a "conspiracy theorist " ... and then there was the word "focus" thrown in ... all to suggest that this possibility is what? ... ridiculous? couldn't happen? ... is that the conclusion?.... If not, then why not consider this possibility? ... Looking for the bogey man? ... it needn't be as dramatic as that ... I'm not adding drama, I'm discussing possibilities ... but you are adding drama ... why? Threatening me with ridicule because I express an idea? .... what ???

There are a great many facts leading to this idea, ... ( which is not a conviction, or paranoia, or an obsession )... Here is a very good link to illustrate this point ...

https://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCH...o-methods.html

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

I hear in your words paranoia. ...

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Posted in reply to the post by Glia:

Golly... and all along we thought the anti-fluoridation people are the conspiracy theory nuts.

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Well, golly Glia, I do believe you have neglected to mention advocates for (or against) chemtrails, smartmeters, leaf blowers, perennial candidates, and grape growers.

Sandoak:

You don't think it's a likely scenario, but "it could have happened"?

I think given the fact that Efren has heretofore enjoyed strong support from Sonoma County law enforcement that it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that there is a conspiracy which is being carried out against him.
If anything, I would think that they would have been inclined to cut him even more slack given this important fact.

You still don't believe me? Just check out the lists of his campaign donors from the 2008 supervisoral campaign as well as the list from the 2012 campaign.

No, Sandoak and art, I think that the police department got a call from a frightened woman, investigated, decided that Efren's ludicrous story (whatever it was) didn't pass the smell test and arrested him based on the evidence: The TWO 911 calls; the broken window screen; the fact that he was wearing only his undershorts (b.t.w., I don't care if they were boxers, briefs or thong) and socks; carrying his cell phone (so he wouldn't go into SmartPhone withdrawal) as well as witness statements. Yes, let us not forget that at least one of the newspaper articles mentioned that there were witnesses to this shocking event.

Myths are fanciful castles in which men and women dwell who do not want to confront the facts or when the facts as presented are just too much for them to bear. Perhaps it is pride and an unwillingness for someone to admit that they have been wrong about a deified politician all along. Perhaps doing so would make them look less than stellar among their own peers.

Whatever the reason, all of you Efrenites need to re-read the story (which was printed by the Press Democrat, which, I will note, supported Efren strongly in each of his two supervisoral campaigns) and ask
yourselves these questions:

1. Would the Press Democrat take such liberties with the truth just to sensationalize the story to sell more papers?

2. Would the Santa Rosa Police Department take the risk of arresting a Sonoma County Supervisor based on flimsy evidence? Or, rather, would they want to do a thorough job at gathering evidence so that they made sure when they finally did effectuate an arrest that the evidence which they spent so much time meticulously gathering would hold up in court?

Speculation is a dangerous thing. But the facts as reported thus far by multiple news sources are
without question disturbing at least and damning at best -- whether or not you want to confront them, and whether or not you agree with them.

Let's let the police and the courts do their respective jobs, and let us continue to demand equal justice for all and NOT just the rich, the powerful, the influential public officials, the high-salary administrators -- or the chosen few.

Wow, Efren caught outside not far from his home in his undies and socks holding a cell phone in the wee hours of the morning (and he had been drinking) after two 911 calls to report a prowler at a nearby apartment by a frightened woman!
Those are the facts I know, so far.
The window screen was damaged, but is there proof that Efren did it? Did the woman caller see someone outside the window? Did she recognize him as Efren at the window and/or at the front door? Were their witnesses, and what did they see?
These are matters for the police to investigate and see if there is enough evidence to charge Efren with some type of crime.
Looks pretty bad, but I'm willing to wait until I have all the facts and an explanation from Efren about the events of that morning before I can make up my mind if he should stay or go in his job as a county supervisor.

Hey, what if it turns out that he'd been up all night drinking and playing video games when he heard a prowler and ran outside in his undies and socks hoping to report the prowler? I know, not likely, but Stranger things have happened! :wink2:
Tom

The socks?

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

... As far as his fitness for public office, the particulars disqualify him in my mind. Possibly it's the socks. I find the socks far more troubling than the shorts. They excite in my mind images and/or a possible sequence of events troubling in what they suggest was going on just before he made the fateful decision to take to the street. As I see it these events meshed with his obviously incoherent thought processes could have resulted in an ugliness discomfiting to imagine. We need probity and responsible action from a representative. Efren has failed both these tests.

Henry

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I know that these things that you describe happen and quite alot. I've often appreciated your other articles. I totally know how covert things can get, that drugs like scopolamine can be and is used to set things up for people, but I personally do not feel this about Carrillo at all. You're basically implying that there is a possibility that he's set up as a patsy for some reason. I really took some time to sit and meditate with what you've said, and for me, it just doesn't resonate, thus I'm going to stay with my intuition. Carrillo needs to face the consequences of his behavior and not have the Big Boys or the illegal justice system cover it up.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750

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... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one ...>

Elizabeth here -- I have my own very deep feelings about the possibility of a shadow structure that manipulates our visible world in pursuit of its own self-interest, and I won't go into the well-known list of "conspiracies". I confess: I think most of them are very possible.

But here we're talking about something down home and local, where the frayed ends of the threads are very very visible, not something distant and spacey. Yes, I think we need to back off and see what our judicial system brings to light, and then we also need to question whether influence is brought to bear on that process. A rush to judgement isn't in anybody's best interest, except to the fans of polarization.

I read reports by Michael Ruppert, and I know a small portion of the history that has produced his present attitudes and filters on current events, a history that reads like an action spy thriller, but is actually fact. It's hard to read the list of people who have met violent and unexplained ends while being on the verge of making governmental malfeasance known and not think that somebody with training and support offed them. But I don't know these people first-hand, I don't live next to them, either victim or perpetrator. I have a very nice neighbor, an ex-military man of possibly unusual experience and skills. Could I imagine him in one of these exotic plots? Well, they do exist, and somebody has to do them.

Could somebody have ambushed Efren Carillo with a drug? Gee, that sounds looney, but then, so does his behavior. Stuff like that makes sense on Netflix, but not in Sonoma County. Or not not. Every example of dirty tricks and "wet work" got played out in somebody's neighborhood, and everybody involved was somebody's neighbor, somebody's family. Lots of folks are enraged by Rolling Stone's cover -- how dare they print an attractive picture of a monster? We want black and white, so we know who to root for. But think about the news coverage of past insane shooters: always, it's "He was such a nice boy."

All this is a long way of saying, "Anything's possible." I have played Medea, Lady Macbeth, Marie Antoinette, and Mary Tyrone, among others. Child murder, regicide, misrule, drug addiction, and I have been able to find the roots of all of that in myself, what could have brought me to those awful acts. I don't believe in the myth of an obstetric Norn who waits at the foot of the delivery table to hit some with the Good Guys stamp and others with the Bad Guys stamp. (I still can't believe that adult figures of authority actually say Bad Guys.) We are, I think, the product of every moment of our lives, and with each passing moment, the portrait changes.

And those in the structures of power have appalling resources to wrench a life astray. Would you like to place bets on the future of Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning and Julian Assange?

So we're all here, down home and local, in the presence of Efren Carillo and Paul Hobbes, and I'd like to think we can take one step at a time. Stay awake and aware, see what we can do as a community to try to stay open to fact and truth, take collective action to try to avert harmful outcomes, and spray-paint all the black hats and white hats purple.

Well said.

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

With all due respect, Henry, what world are you living in? ....

I am the first to enjoy a good piece of writing, especially if there is humor involved, but this situation isn't at all funny ...

I'm living in a world in which big money rules ... in which whistleblowers are being arrested ... in which activists are being infiltrated, targeted and discredited ... in which every day citizens are being spied on ... in which corporate interests have shown little regard for human safety or freedom ...

... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one .... and you think that it's "cute" or that I'm some kind of "handler" to suggest that one of our honest politicians might be framed? ...

It would not take the scenario that you describe to bring down Carrillo ... all one would have to do is increase his alcohol intake ... this can be accomplished by placing people in his life to cause stress, by exposing him to lots of alcohol and others who drink heavily, and by making sure that there is plenty of sexual temptation in his life ... the occupy protesters were infiltrated by alcoholics and drug addicts ... this is a matter of record ... look it up .... this sort of thing seems to be the norm as corruption takes hold of our world ...

Was Carrillo working on something which would cause money interests to suffer? ... Had he uncovered damaging information related to these money interests? ... the woman, was she innocent or playing a role? ... ( in this economy anyone can be paid to do anything! ) .... were the men who hassled his women friends in San Diego sent specifically to do that? .... these are the questions that I would be asking ... and why would I be asking these questions? ... because of stories like this about infiltration aimed at peaceful, innocent citizens who are rallying against big business:

https://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/National_News_2/article_7574.shtml

https://fsrn.org/audio/undercover-police-chicago-infiltrated-and-tracked-activist-groups-report-finds/12030

https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/06/24-9


and I could publish tons of these stories but I'll spare you ... if you want to see the carnage for yourself then do a search using the words " activists infiltrated "....

or perhaps none of this is happening with regards to Carrillo ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic and got carried away ... but I'm not one to rush to conclusions given all of the verifiable covert sabotage occurring lately ... it seems that anyone trying to do some good in the world is suddenly met with massive amounts of misfortune ...

Before you rush to conclusions regarding Carrillo or any other political person caught with their "pants down", I suggest that you do some research ... here's an excellent article entitled "Infiltration of Political Movements is the Norm, Not the Exception in the United States" which discusses how past political movements and politicians were infiltrated and harassed ... there's plenty of evidence of this ...

https://www.globalresearch.ca/occupy...d-states/29750

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Sincere thanks, goldenday ...


I should have added one more atrocity to the list ... a world in which our journalists are being silenced ...

https://www.thenation.com/article/174851/strange-case-barrett-brown#


and a follow up interview with the author of this article on Democracy Now ...

https://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/11/jailed_journalist_barrett_brown_faces_105

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Posted in reply to the post by goldenday:

Well said.

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Socks make the man.

And Carrillo wore the wrong fashion! Can't have that; public officeholders must have the latest fashion down to a 'T.' Our political leadership cannot look uncouth.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sara S:

The socks?

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What socks go best with underwear?

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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:

Socks make the man.

And Carrillo wore the wrong fashion! Can't have that; public officeholders must have the latest fashion down to a 'T.' Our political leadership cannot look uncouth.

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"Could somebody have ambushed Efren Carillo with a drug? Gee, that sounds looney, but then, so does his behavior."

Well exactly ... when I first heard of this story I thought that it was very strange ... here's a man, a public figure, who gets so drunk that he shows up at a neighbors' house in his underwear in an attempt to break into her house? ... what? ... the man would have to be out of his mind to bypass any concern for his public office ... and for what? ... a possible drunken fling with a non-consenting neighbor?...

And this quote from the PD which just adds confusion to the story ...

" Officers did not arrest him on suspicion of public intoxication.“The officers at the scene characterized him as 'had been drinking,' but not sloppy drunk or anything like that,” Anderson said.
Detectives who interviewed him later, around 8a.m., did not consider him to be drunk, Anderson said. "

and this quote from his lawyer ...

Andrian said that while outside the woman’s home, Carrillo also identified himself as a neighbor.
“People who are going to go and assault someone don’t usually say, ‘Hi, I’m your neighbor,’” he said.

So what was Efren working on?

Land use issues, water conservation, gang prevention ... hmm, no big money here ...

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Posted in reply to the post by theindependenteye:

Elizabeth here -- I have my own very deep feelings about the possibility of a shadow structure that manipulates our visible world in pursuit of its own self-interest, and I won't go into the well-known list of "conspiracies". I confess: I think most of them are very possible.

But here we're talking about something down home and local, where the frayed ends of the threads are very very visible...

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Good points, Henry ... but I don't think that it is the "knowing" that has kept Snowden safe ... he's a smart man and he's made it clear that very damaging information will be released if he is harmed in any way ...

https://www.reuters.com/article/2013...96C08Q20130713

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

As this thread has been hijacked by the..

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Okay folks. this thread has been officially hijacked, and in a damn silly fashion.
Henry

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Good grief. Everyone here has been talking about possibilities. With this many posts one expects to eventually cover all the aspects. That's what makes it interesting, informative and just maybe, mind-opening.
Many people on this forum get their info from alternative sources, not the mainstream media, not Murdoch nor the Koch brothers.
If this thread has been hijacked it was by you, I think, who turned it into a carnival.

Excuse me Henry, could you please site your source for this information? I have not been able to find a quote from Efren stating that he and the prowler are the same. Thank you.

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

He's already acknowledged to the police that the "prowler" and he are the same.

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He wanted to have a couple beers with her....Is that so?

I read in one of the P.D. articles that the police never found
any beers.

V-e-d-d-y interesting...

I tried to post this information on wacco Friday before my email-free weekend, but I see that somehow it didn't show up.

As I was out walking a van pulled over and a well-known community member thanked me for my balanced post re the Carrillo flap. He said he was appalled at the viciousness of some of the other posts. He said that he was an old friend of Efren's, and was the man who had driven him to the alcohol treatment facility. Efren was definitely drunk, he said, and he shared my puzzlement as to why the police had failed to test Efren's blood alcohol level. This man also told me that there was a history of heavy alcohol use among certain members of Efren's family. His family, of course, was emotionally devastated by this event, and it's not difficult to imagine how Efren himself feels.

Alcoholism is hell, and I sympathize with Efren and his family. But I must say that what disturbs me more than this crazy drunken misadventure is the notorious attack piece his election campaign mailed out, the one showing pictures of pigs wallowing in the mire, and--ironically--accusing his opponent of dirty tactics. I called his campaign office answering machine about this, and to his credit he called me back. I was hoping he'd agree that the pig piece was scurrilous, and that he was going to retract it and apologize. But instead he waffled and said the pig stuff was only metaphorical, etc. I replied that it made him look like the pig, not his opponent. He seemed to sort of take my point, but the whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth.

This, combined with the former punching incident (also at a bar!) and the recent drunken nocturnal escapade definitely reveal serious, tragic emotional and character problems. Efren is a brilliant and talented guy, with friends and family who see many good qualities in him. I can't forget the Efren who appeared at a fair at Ives Park, sitting in a booth in which he would be doused with water when people threw a ball that hit a lever. I only hope that his current awful predicament serves as a spiritual wake-up call that leads him to turn his life around!

occihoff:

Thank you for your recent post. And thank you for bringing up the "pig poster incident."

I, too, felt that using that picture in a political campaign was the epitome of "dirty" politics and
showed extremely poor judgment on Efren's part.

I am not alone in my thinking. Several other west county residents expressed similar feelings to me.

I sent one of the mailers back to Efren and told him to stop sending them, as I found them very offensive.

Guess what? He ignored my request, and his campaign sent me another one!

Needless to say, Sebastacat found NO humor in such a tasteless antic -- and was understandably "appalled" by E.C.'s contempt for what I felt was a very reasonable request.

It's about time that Efren and his handlers/enablers stop blaming other things for his problems.
Someone needs to remind him of that classic line by our former president, Harry S. Truman:
"The buck stops here."

I also found it particularly offensive that Efren told us that he looked forward to telling his side of the story of the shameful San Diego incident. But, as well all know, except for a terse statement, which was rife with inconsistencies, that day never came.

I think that for the good of the county, the good of the office and the good of himself, Efren should seriously consider resigning from his position. Then and only then will he be able to devote the amount of time that it is going to take to address his demons and to get his life back on track.

In the meantime, the fifth district is being left without representation at a crucial time in our county's history, and that, my fellow fifth-district friends, is something that we simply cannot afford.

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

Good question, Pat.

Anyone out in Wacco Land have any answers?

As fifth district tax-paying constituents, we're all just dying to know.....

Black helicopters have been hovering over West Third St.:wink2:

His aide Susan.

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Posted in reply to the post by patnicholson:

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

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Thanks for all your comments about this bizarre episode.

I have combined the two threads on this topic.

As this has been a very active thread, for those of you who have already posted, please limit your remarks to a viewpoint that has not been posted yet.

If you haven't posted your thoughts yet, I encourage you to do so. I also encourage everybody to vote in the poll at the top of this thread on the website. Note that the poll discloses which users voted for each option.

If you have posted to this thread and would like to stop the email updates for each new reply to this thread, simply click the https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...3_17-52-27.pngbutton on the bottom of any email from this thread, including this one.

When considering whether Efren should resign or not, please try to keep this incident separate from your opinion regarding is performance as supervisor up until this point and whether or not you agree with his policies.

In particular, I'd be interested in hearing from those of you who supported Efren until this incident and now think he should resign, or those of you (if any) who did not support Efren before this, but now think he should resign.

As for my thoughts…

I actually fall into the first category, supporting Efren, but I think he should resign.

I've been a luke-warm supporter of Efren's work. I was particularly pleased that he was a significant player in arranging a deal to preserve Preservation Ranch (a development that many suspected he would support) plus his strong support of Sonoma Clean Power. I was particularly disturbed by his vote in support of the Dutra plant in Petaluma along with his weak defense of his vote.

Up until this point he has shown himself as a hard worker and a reputable representative of the 5th district. Remember that besides us left-wing-Wackos, there are many Latinos, business owners, mainstream folks, and I've even heard rumors of a few Republicans (gasp!) in the district. He needs to represent all of us. And no doubt he has his "backers" in the shadows that he must please, as nearly all politicians must, until we get the money out of politics.

But with this "embarrassing" incident, he has lost my support and furthermore I think it is inappropriate for him to continue to represent us. While I have compassion for him (including diving into such a big and public job at a young age) that is separate from his responsibilities as our representative.

I also have compassion for the woman involved, along with Efren's many supporters that have been let down, most notably his loyal aid, Susan Upchurch.

As other's have pointed out, just blaming this on alcohol is not sufficient. There's some deep personal issues here that will need healing and I think that is best done while not attempting to represent our district. Both for our sake and for Efren's.

Efren will no doubt be completely consumed by his upcoming legal case. His arraignment is now set for Aug 30th. If there's a trial after that, there will be more weeks/months that he will need to focus on that. And all that time he will be on paid leave.

There have been many politicians who have resigned for far less incriminating actions, and some who haven't (there's quite a selection of examples these days!).

I hope Efren will have the decency to take the high road and resign soon. May he then take time to heal from this trauma and its causes, and let the district again have reputable representation. I would not object if he chooses to run again in 2016 for Supervisor or another office and let the voters decide if he is fit for office.

Barry

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Efren will no doubt be completely consumed by his upcoming legal case. His arraignment is now set for Aug 30th. If there's a trial after that, there will be more weeks/months that he will need to focus on that. And all that time he will be on paid leave.

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Henry just informed me that "according to Bruce Goldstein, county counsel, Mr. Carrillo is allowed three months of leave before either resuming his duties or vacating his position."

I suspect we'll have to wait till October 13th before we find out if Efren will resign. If Efren waits that long before resigning, that will be another black mark in my book.

Thanks for posting your opinion, Barry.

But "embarrassing"?

Creepy is more like it.....

as a past user of substances more mind altering than alcohol... I noticed that I'd do things that seemed very creative and imaginary while high, tho once sober were obviously ridiculous. My intuition is that this may have happened to Efren.

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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:

dzerach:

Efren, if you have one shred of decency left in you, you will do the honorable thing and resign so that someone more worthy of the office can take your place.

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Great idea, Cat. Saves money on recalling him. Perhaps citizens could help him reach that decision by demonstrating against him. In my 60+ years of experience I know alcoholics are not leadership material. Treated or not, the fact that they have resorted to alcoholism to deal with their problems shows they are absolutely not in possession of the stability and perspective we need in our policy makers.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I also encourage everybody to vote in the poll at the top of this thread on the website. Note that the poll discloses which users voted for each option.Barry

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Barry,

Thank you for your well articulated posting and for creating the poll. However, I found it difficult to choose among your four categories and felt I wanted a more nuanced choice. While I decided to go for "I don't know", the radio button choice I really would have wanted to check would have read as follows:

"While admittedly what we hear in the media does not look good, I have enough life experience to know that given that the only thing I know about this situation is what I have read in media, and at a very early stage of the unfolding of this unfortunate event at that, I suspect, therefore, that I have only received a small slice of the real truth of what actually happened, all of which has been filtered through 3rd party sources. Therefore, I have most likely not received nearly enough of the factual details of this situation to make a sufficiently informed opinion."

An additional personal note: I have always voted for Efren's opponents in every election in which he has ran, yet in all my personal encounters with him over the years I have found him to be a caring, kind, attentive, and sincere public servant, even though I have opposed (as well as supported) many of his positions. When something like this happens to someone I personally know, I usually find myself immediately dropping out of judgement of any public persona they may have and dropping into feeling compassion for them as a human being, and this is no exception. I think we can separate the issue of whether Efren is fit to serve as our County Supervisor while also feeling some compassion for him as a fellow person and community member, as well as feeling compassion for the woman who became involved not by her own choosing.

Scott

Hey, Barry--
I voted "I Don't Know" in the poll. If, as he seems to have indicated, Scott McKeown also voted "I Don't Know", the total should read at least 2 votes for "I Don't Know", but it says 1 instead. What's up? Does it take awhile after a person votes for their vote to show up in the total, or is the software mis-counting, or...?

Scott's vote was not registered, I presume from a user-malfunction :wink:. I just voted for (as) him to reflect his (eloquently) stated opinion.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Hey, Barry--
I voted "I Don't Know" in the poll. If, as he seems to have indicated, Scott McKeown also voted "I Don't Know", the total should read at least 2 votes for "I Don't Know", but it says 1 instead. What's up? Does it take awhile after a person votes for their vote to show up in the total, or is the software mis-counting, or...?

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Probably another one of his bimbos on staff:wink:

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Posted in reply to the post by patnicholson:

Who's minding the store while efren's away?

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Don't forget the real estate /predatory lending scams happening in Sonoma County ! Chris Adrian refused to represent my family on this issue even when my sister and him have known each other for many years,he even had a crush on her for a long time....... does not matter to him to protect the victims of this crime,only the bad guys out there.

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Posted in reply to the post by sharingwisdom:

... a world which has been bankrupted by dishonest bankers and the politicians that they have "bought" ... a world in which our civil rights are being destroyed one by one ....

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Yes like the way Efferen cheated and lied to get elected!

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Posted in reply to the post by goldenday:

Well said.

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Pardon my abrupt crudeness, but I am amazed at the general stupidity, vapidity and ignorance of the people posting here: regarding mamaj's remark, Susan Upchurch, Efren Carrillo's assistant is a person of integrity and morals. As regards mamaj's snarkey comment, it causes me to wonder about her agenda. People are drawing conclusions from a man's behavior (Efren Carrillo) without any neutrality or experience in investigating such behavior, without waiting for people trained to do so to produce their report (and they are human and make mistakes as well). The range of interpretations of what someone "might have done" are so wide, your suspicions and conclusions speak more about you, than the person you are speaking about. How paranoid, judgmental and punitive many of you are! Shame on you! Your hearts to me seem to be empty, cold and lost. Please see if you can find them again. Mr. Carrillo and you deserve better... Bruce of Occidental...

Good evening, heresbruce......

First of all, I will try to post in such a way that will not cause you to become even more angry and upset than your last post reflects. That is not a perjorative remark, nor is it meant to besmerch you in any way. The subject matter of this thread has certainly raised Waccobbian emotions to the highest levels of tempestuousness in Sebastacat's memory.

Yes, we all have our opinions on Efren's conduct. I know that I certainly have mine, and I will not apologize for it, nor do I expect you to apologize for yours.

However, that being said, I would like to share with you a couple of my observations, if you will permit me to do so.

I think it's safe to say that there are several of us out in WaccoLand and beyond who feel that Efren did not adequately explain his behavior in San Diego to the extent that we, his constituents, felt that he should have. And there were several people who believed his story that he was "protecting the honor of women."

I will tell you right now that Sebastacat was not one of them -- nor does he believe it now.

You express your frustration in your last post with people who you feel are not applying "neutrality of experience investigating such behavior without waiting for people trained to do so to produce their reports."

I think you'll agree with me when I say that it was hard to investigate Efren's conduct concerning the San Diego incident, given the suppression of the videotape surveillance, the sealing of the police report, as well as Efren's silence. And I think that the sense of frustration felt by some us the last time around has, righty or wrongly, seeped into this incident as well.

I think its safe to say that some of that may, indeed, have been caused by Efren himself, for many people took him at his word when he said that he "looked forward to the day" when he could tell his story regarding his penultimate transgression with the law.

That day, of course, never came; but unfortunately, this latest incident did.

Some people, including me, have a much higher standard of conduct for their politicians than others. That may be a generational thing, or it may be just wishful thinking and regretting and pining for the good ol' days, when politicians (for the most part) took public service seriously and knew that the slightest indiscretion meant the end of their career.

In my opinion, Efren has fritted away a great opportunity which has been given to him. True, he won two elections, but in the U.S., as part of our democratic system of government, people are given the opportunity to run for public office; and with that comes a high degree of responsibility and the attendant integrity which people expect of a public official who happens to win an election.

To that end, I would like to pose to you and others this question:

Assume hypothetically for a moment that the accused perpetrator in this case was not Efren, but, rather,
the unemployed guy living at the end of the complex who happens to be a bit down on his luck.
Suppose this person committed the same offenses for which Efren was arrested. Would you still be willing to look at him the same? Would you still be willing to "cut him some slack"? Or would you join the chorus of
"hang 'em!" which is so often sung loudly by the law-and-order folks?

The above questions bear some serious thought. And I sincerely hope that neither you nor anyone else will find my post unpleasant, derogatory, strident or an attack on any of you for the expression of your past or present opinions on this topic.

However, I will continue to demand a higher standard of conduct for our politicians -- at both the local and national level -- as well as continue to demand equal justice for all -- with no strings attached.

Well said ! ... Susan is wonderful, she's been very helpful in my life ... and yes, with this lynch mob mentality (which I've witnessed before) he seems like a hung man before the investigation has even started ... this does seem to be the political "mood" of America lately, guilty until proven innocent ( if you even get a trial ) ....

What happened to love, compassion, and due process? ...

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Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

Pardon my abrupt crudeness, but I am amazed at the general stupidity, vapidity and ignorance of the people posting here: regarding mamaj's remark, Susan Upchurch, Efren Carrillo's assistant is a person of integrity and morals. ...

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I think that the point here is that the man has not even gone to trial ... facts have not been presented ... witnesses have not been questioned ... and yet, there is an assumption that he's guilty as charged ...

I truly hope that you never find yourself in a similar situation, facing a crowd who comes to conclusions about you without any investigation at all ... without even the chance to speak in your own defense ....

can we please not throw out the 6th amendment as well as the others that have been violated?

The Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution reads:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:

Good evening, heresbruce......

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No, let's not (throw out the Sixth Amendment).

However, I don't care if the case never goes to trial. There are certain facts which are undisputed which I find extremely disturbing. But, because I will strive for brevity (at least for now), and because I do not wish to fan the flickering flames of anger and discontent, I will not repeat them here.

Also, I feel that there has been an unspoken -- yet inferred -- insinuation that the police are somehow not telling the truth or are mistaken about the facts or have done a shoddy investigation. This insinuation has been made by many on this board, and I find it distressing and disturbing. Sorry, but I refuse to believe that.

And I certainly do not believe that there is a conspiracy which is being carried out against Efren, as several posters on this thread seem to feel. But that certainly is your prerogative if you wish to do so. Quite frankly, I found some of THOSE to be VERY outlandish, not to mention just plain foolish!

I will not reiterate all of my opinions here, as I feel that all of my previous posts more than adequately express my feelings in this matter.

I've no doubt many of Efren Carrillo's deeper feelings and issues are coming up during rehab and what compelled him to behave the way he did. I can only imagine how painful this is for him and how ashamed he must feel.

Most experts agree that the usual 30 day stay in rehab isn't sufficient time for an individual to recover from a substance abuse issue. When someone returns to the same set of conditions after 30 days, they're vulnerable and can easily relapse.After 30 days of rehab, it's recommended these days that someone in recovery should transition into a half-way house for at least 90 days and live among others in recovery. This helps to reinforce the positive behaviors one is learning. Then ongoing meetings such as the 12 step program provide additional support for getting well. It's a long process and not something that should be rushed. Given that he's only in the very early stages of getting well, it's premature for an apology. There are some who will disagree however unless an addict is well, apologies and making amends will mean nothing. Recovering from substance abuse is an ongoing commitment a day at a time and sometimes an hour at a time.

I've had the opportunity to meet Efren and speak with Susan Churchill. In both cases, I found them to be professional and courteous. This has been a very unfortunate turn of events but for all the reasons I've just mentioned, I believe it would be compassionate not to expect Efren to continue in his duties.

This has been a great debate and I've been interested in all opinions ... these opinions have ranged from "he's a drunken fool" to "he's been framed" and everything in between ... I don't recall anyone insulting the police or their investigation, but maybe I missed something ... I quoted actual police statements from the Press Democrat because I found them interesting ... they were saying that he wasn't very drunk ... this amazes me ...

I do think that the trial is important, it's an interesting story of an interesting man and I feel that it's important to know what really happened ... but more than that it's about justice and due process and hopefully, we still enjoy these rights ....

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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:

However, I don't care if the case never goes to trial.

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My, my! Thankfully, Sebastacat's fur has gotten a bit longer and his skin a bit thicker - but I guess that comes with age!

arthunter: I never said "insulting." I said, "insinuating."

And I will respectfully and politely remind you that a trial and a conviction are not prerequisites for forming an opinion that an elected official's actions have been so eggregious as to warrant resignation or removal from office.

In Sebastacat's opinion, Efren's "story" is fast becoming Efren's drama -- and, unfortunately, he's dragging Sonoma County and the fifth district down with him.

Sebastacat,

I meant "insulting" because of the following line ... "the police are somehow not telling the truth or are mistaken about the facts or have done a shoddy investigation"

that's insulting and I don't recall anyone insulting the police ...

I'm glad that you brought up the word "drama" ... I agree with that word and I have wondered why this incident became such a huge drama ... some of my feelings are a result of my past experiences ... I too had a drunken neighbor who was attracted to me ... I was living alone at the time and I woke up one night because I heard someone trying to get in the front door ... I looked out of the window and saw that it was the drunken neighbor ... he was harmless as a lot of drunks are, and I recognized him from the neighborhood ... I didn't call the police, I took him home ...

Another time I woke up to find him camped out under one of my apple trees ... this time I couldn't get him to move so I put a pillow under his head, a blanket over his body, and a bottle of water next to him and I left him there .... even though he was being aggressive, I didn't feel in danger ... he was just drunk ...

I'm not trying to make excuses for Efren's behavior ... I'm just asking "what women hasn't been approached by a drunken man?" ( and I'm sure that many men have been approached by a drunken women ) ... unless you're being physically attacked, there's no threat there ... and if you recognize him as a well known politician from the neighborhood? ... Yes, he tore her screen but he was drunk! ... and then he ran to the front door and said "Hi, I'm your neighbor"... as his lawyer said, what criminal does that?

This is why I want to wait for more facts ... this whole burglary/sexual assault theme seems way too dramatic for me .... he might have a drinking problem but then a lot of excellent, professional people share that dilemma ... and they still do their job ...

but I do understand what you are saying, and, of course, you are entitled to your feelings and opinions ... I respect your opinion and I don't want to argue with you ... I just need more information ...

"What woman hasn't been approached by a drunken man?"

Sorry, but I don't believe that that is a common thing nowadays, unless the person doing the approachin'
wants to get arrested and spend some time in jail.

But for those women who have had to deal with men who are in a drunken stupor, I would agree with you that they have most likely been approached rather than had one cut the window screen and try to crawl through their bedroom window while they were sleeping. At least I certainly hope so!

As for going to the front door and announcing that he was the victim's "neighbor," I have my own
thoughts as to why he might have done that, but I do not want to engage in speculation or fantasy, as some people who have posted on this and related threads have done.

I guess in the end, we'll just have to agree to disagree. But I will share with you one final thought:
Had Efren only gone to this unfortunate woman's front door in his socks and undies, I would have laughed and snickered about it for days on end while feeling compassion for the innocent victim all the while.

But when he went and broke her window screen and tried to gain entry into her bedroom before going to the front door and announcing himself, well, sorry, but that was a major game-changer for me. And while Efren and others may wish to continue to blame alcohol and other things for his inappropriate conduct, in the end, the buck stops with one person: Efren.

While I have never had problems with alcohol or substance abuse, I have had a family member who has. It is hell for the family members to go through, and I tell you that as one who has had a ringside seat to one who has experienced its ravages. It will do no good for those around Efren to continue to enable him and make excuses for his conduct, for in doing so, they are giving him a green light to continue his questionable behavior; and as long as that continues, Efren will never change.

Henry,

At the time that Efren was swinging his fists in San Diego, my life was a total wreck. I am a crime victim and I'll leave it at that. I do have an interest but I am uninformed.

I will say that I do not subscribe to hearsay ... and I've learned this lesson the hard way. Political manipulation does exist and information must be verified. Trust me. If there are verifiable facts about this case that are unknown then they should be made public. You'd be doing your county a favor.

At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, or paranoid, or obsessed, or any other derogatory label that you might throw at me, the San Diego incident could have been easily staged. Here's a man who likes to drink, so get him drunk, throw some trouble at him, call the police and the press ... could happen .... does happen ...

And if you don't think that politicians are manipulated in this way, then you're either very idealistic or very naive ... especially politicians who are fighting for land and water rights ... think, Henry think ... who really controls the resources in our world? ... honest politicians? ... guess again ...

( I will skip the many links to prove my point ... )

or not, ... perhaps he's just an alcoholic politician who prefers booze to the career that he's spent most of his life creating .... that is indeed a possibility ...

and, by the way, I would ask these questions for any man, woman or child who suddenly found themselves on the wrong side of the law ... I would ask these questions for you, Henry .... because it isn't Efren that I'm trying to protect, ... it's justice ...

oh, and I'm a woman, so sorry but bromance is out of the question ... :-)

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Arthunter,

Have you no interest in "what really happened" in San Diego? We've been informed by an Efren supporter that things didn't go down quite the way they were spun, yet your curiosity seems curiously lacking given your interest in the latest Carrillo indiscretion, one where no one suffered physical harm. The cynic would suggest that your lack of interest illustrates a double standard of demanding the facts just so long as the outcome is, at the least, debatable. When given a scenario where another human being was knocked cold and hospitalized..., well, you do seem tellingly disinterested. Just saying! Wouldn't want to find myself excoriated for suggesting hypocrisy.

Can Mr. Carrillo really do no wrong? All in all, you're beginning to sound a bit bromantic.
Henry

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Well Bruce of Occidental- I guess your life has been perfect ,not having to turn to local representatives and our legal system for assistance and help for you and your family and to help others. Only to be lied to, or they refuse to care about lower income people who have worked hard all their lives, not making huge salaries. We have children and families we love dearly .We are speaking for their future . I have dealt with Susan Upchurch on several occasions at Carrillos' office. She covers for him well ,he was always unavailable,bailing out of the responsibility of helping the good folks of western Sonoma County. Whenever I had a chance to speak to him person to person in public,Efferen would tell me to call him at his office and he would help. Guessing now he probably had a few drinks in him . Then when I would call him, Susan would always tell me "they" could not help for rediculous reasons ,out of their jurisdiction etc. Whatever the reason,"they" always were unconcerned.Unconcerned even about a horrible real estate /predatory lending scam which my family and I and many other responsible homeowners' became victims of ! This countys' judges and legal system have clearly ignored this devastating experience.It didn't happen to them, and they have other things to do and bigger fish to fry. This crime is not going away, and the victim list is growing and homes and properties are being stolen and sold illegally on the front steps of this countys' Administration building! Oh yes ,almost forgot to mention ,Efferen Carrillo used to be a loan broker. Not all loan brokers' are bad ,it's a grey area . But I betcha some of the real estate "crooks" were big contributors in his elections..... wake up Bruce ,I am just keepin' it real .:thumbsup:

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Posted in reply to the post by heresbruce:

Pardon my abrupt crudeness, but I am amazed at the general stupidity, vapidity and ignorance of the people posting here: regarding mamaj's remark, Susan Upchurch, Efren Carrillo's assistant is a person of integrity and morals. As regards mamaj's snarkey comment, it causes me to wonder about her agenda. People are drawing conclusions from a man's behavior (Efren Carrillo) without any neutrality or experience in investigating such behavior, without waiting for people trained to do so to produce their report (and they are human and make mistakes as well). The range of interpretations of what someone "might have done" are so wide, your suspicions and conclusions speak more about you, than the person you are speaking about. How paranoid, judgmental and punitive many of you are! Shame on you! Your hearts to me seem to be empty, cold and lost. Please see if you can find them again. Mr. Carrillo and you deserve better... Bruce of Occidental...

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Many thanks Henry ... for your very sensitive and caring response ...

but I am motivated only by information which I have gathered, as a result of being a victim of crime .... my only point through all of this has been that things are not always what they seem to be ... political manipulation is a reality ... sad but true ... as I've stated before, one only has to do a search using the words "activist and infiltration" to realize the scope of what we face in the political arena ... truth is hard to come by and there is a definite war on for our minds ... media is mostly controlled by money interests and disinformation on the internet is a job description for many .... these are cold, hard facts and not the product of any emotional state ...

I have no doubt that Efren is a broken man, but whether this condition has been caused by internal disability or external sabotage no one can say ... this is the way of the world right now with covert activities influencing those who try to make a difference ... sadly, it's all about money and power, with little thought for humanity or spiritual progress ...

Once again, I will skip the references that point to what I know ... but they are out there ... people are reporting hidden injustice constantly and others are waking up ... I do believe in the goodness of others, I see it every day ... and my heart is in no danger of drying up, as I try to fill it with love and compassion daily ...

Sometimes you just have to call it like you see it, especially in this world of verifiable, contrived BS ... you might be wrong, you might face ridicule, but this is our right as human beings on this planet .... ALL opinions are valuable, not just the ones that we agree with ... end of rant ....

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

I'll suggest that Mr. Carrillo is a man with enough integrity to realize, if only vaguely, that he doesn't enjoy being the Golden Boy, a man who can't abide being manipulated as a caricature so as to further the aims of particular sponsors. ...

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Sonoma County Supe. gets busted in San Diego. Sonoma County citizens get no logical explanation of what went down. Sonoma County Grand Jury makes no attempt to get logical explanation. Sonoma County citizens impacted in both criminal and long term fiscal events. $$$$ Why?

It does seem that young Mr. Carrillo made the Faustian bargain, and part of him is trying to find a way out before the devil (y'all can guess who is playing that role) demands payment.

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

I'll suggest that Mr. Carrillo is a man with enough integrity to realize, if only vaguely, that he doesn't enjoy being the Golden Boy, a man who can't abide being manipulated as a caricature so as to further the aims of particular sponsors. I suggest that San Diego was a cry for relief, and that the failure to be heard necessitated upping the ante in an attempt to make obvious how unendurable the charade. And no one listened, not the first time, not the second. Imagine the horror for the man if I'm correct.

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Posted in reply to the post by Damien:

Sonoma County Supe. gets busted in San Diego. Sonoma County citizens get no logical explanation of what went down. Sonoma County Grand Jury makes no attempt to get logical explanation. Sonoma County citizens impacted in both criminal and long term fiscal events. $$$$ Why?

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How many people facing felony assault charges would be allowed to leave the country as he did?

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Arthunter,

In total agreement with your quoting the 6th Amendment. Odd isn't it that Efren's attorney, with E's knowledge of course, has chosen to drag this thing out in the most 'unspeedy' of fashions? Is it odd that he didn't demand the prosecution 'put up or shut up' in bringing charges promptly? Rather he agreed to a continuance, dragging this sordid affair on into the future. One would think that an innocent would be pulling at the bit to prove said innocence. Apparently not, as Mr. Carillo has chosen the 'slow boat to China defense' as a winning strategy.

Cheers, Henry

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Hate to tell you but, it was not up to Efren to set the hearing date, it was the Prosecutor who asked for more time. It worries me though, more time means more chances to spin the truth and buy off victims, etc.

For all of the posters who think it's wrong for us to draw conclusions - isn't Efren's statement of “I realize that my behavior was embarrassing" enough to realize he is not innocent? We may never know his full intent, but it does not take a genius to understand at the very least he is not fit to serve as an elected official.

Check the Wacco poll at the top of this thread, the majority is very clear.

BTW - I don't want his job; just the full truth and complete justice for all harmed by him and his office staff.

That is very offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Posted in reply to the post by mamaj:

Probably another one of his bimbos on staff:wink:

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Posted in reply to the post by mamaj:

Probably another one of his bimbos on staff:wink:

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

That is very offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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I agree. I was about to move it to the Censored category when heresbruce, arthunter and henry called her on it.

Susan Upchurch may be many things, but "bimbo" certainly isn't one of them. A public apology would be appropriate. Please be respectful should you choose to continue to participate here.

Thank you, Peace Voyager, for this information ... and thank you for expressing gratitude for two of my other posts .... I'm not saying that you are wrong about any of this because I really do not know the facts ...

But I just want to make a point here .... throughout this discussion I've been talking about "justice" ... and part of "justice" in my book includes the right of the accused to defend himself or herself ... there are always two sides to every story and I think that it's unfair to deny anyone that right ... ( back to the 6th amendment )

Here's an example of what can happen when this principle is ignored ... the following is a purely fictional story which I'm fabricating to make a point ...

Mary and Joe are neighbors. Joe cuts down a tree on the border of their two properties thinking that it's on his land. Mary loved that tree and has now lost important shade in her backyard. She confronts Joe and an argument begins, an argument that can have no resolution because property lines are vague and neither Mary or Joe can afford a land survey.

Mary is so upset that she starts spreading rumors around town about Joe. She tells everyone that he beats his wife. No one has the guts to approach Joe about this but they do start to ignore and harass him. When he tries to get a promotion at his job, he is ignored. When he tries to sell one of his old cars, no one will even come and look at it. He comes out of the supermarket to find a new dent on his car. Garbage is thrown on his lawn and people in the neighborhood won't talk to him, ... he wonders why. Even in church he is shunned.... and no one will tell him anything ... he isn't publicly accused of a crime, it's all behind his back, so he isn't allowed to defend himself ... his happy life in his home town is now over ....

Would anyone on this list want to be accused of wrong-doing without the chance to prepare a defense? Do we not owe that to each other as civil human beings? Would anyone here want to be considered guilty until found innocent? Is there a public way to confront these two with these accusations? because I, for one, would like to hear the response ....

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Peace Voyager:

A person of integrity and morals does not have an illegal sewer hook-up on her property as Susan Upchurch did in Graton, and then pretend she knew nothing of it.

Then she had the gall to get on the board of the Graton CSD and do everything she could to bring them down; a board that gained control of the waste water treatment system from the SC Water Agency because 80% of the voters wanted it...

---

He'll get is day in court of the criminal charges, but court of public opinion seem to be drawing near to a verdict on weather he should resign. No more posting on anything other buy, sell, stuff. Shoot, I'll keep politic/news talk to the face to face, people say whatever behind a keyboard.

Henry,

Are you joking?

I was responding to Peace Voyager's post about Susan Upchurch and here you go throwing derogatory phrases at me again ... "black ops conspiratorial skullduggery & theyarewatching.com" because I suggest that every person deserves a chance to defend themselves against community criticism? ... once again, are you joking?

Efren will have his day to defend himself, this posting has nothing to do with him .... unfortunately, Susan Upchurch might not ... and that was the point of my post ...

and then you address a post to Barry that reads "Would you please put an end to the character assassination?" ...
I repeat that request ... Would you please put an end to the character assassination, Henry?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

Are we to understand that the woman (Mary) who called 911...
Please, enough with this 'black ops conspiratorial skullduggery'. Come up with something substantive in support, or let it go. And no, please, no more links to 'theyarewatching.com'. You marginalize yourself in beginning to come across as ridiculous.

---

I must reiterate my earlier opinion that this thread and its related threads have certainly brought some raw emotions to the surface for some west county residents.

I would remind all of you that the west county is facing some HUGE issues right now, such as the Hobbs vineyard conversion, and we must not lose sight of our sense of community and respect for one another.

Accordingly, I will offer the following ditty for your distillation in the hopes that peace among all posters may be at least somewhat achievable:

Let us hope,
and let us pray,
that tomorrow will bring us
a better day.

Thank you, Henry ... I'll characterize this as a misunderstanding ...

My story was meant to illustrate the dangers of talking behind someone's back without giving that person a chance to defend themselves ... Efren is well aware that we are all talking about him ... his case is very public ...
I would like to think that I can express my opinion without being insulted in any way ... I've disagreed with many of these posts but I have not resorted to name calling ... you seem like an intelligent, caring man Henry and I can only hope that my debates with you in the future do not require that I don a hard hat ... ( but I'll keep the protective gear nearby, just in case ... :wink: )

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

A
As you say that you were responding in defense of Upchurch I am chastened and offer my apology.

---

I wanted to thank Peace Voyager for her enlightening post but it has disappeared??? [Colleen deleted it and then reposted it. I moved it to WaccoTalk, here. - Barry] ... Thank you, Colleen, for attempting to share pertinent information, ... thank you also for all that you have done and all that you continue to do ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Thank you, Henry ... I'll characterize this as a misunderstanding ...

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so the 5th district at present has no rep on the board and the soonest we can expect that to change is when?

I have to respond to this, I don't want to, but I have to ...

If I were to base my opinions only on the information that people have shared on this forum, then I would agree with the consensus that he must go ... but I have other potent information to share which colors my viewpoint ...

...Now this is very serious stuff and I'm going out on a limb here, so please keep the name calling to a minimum ...

During the 50s and 60s the government sought to suppress political dissent by putting together a covert program called Cointelpro ... it was ugly and it was aimed at political activists ... the mission was a basic seek and destroy agenda using infiltration, psyops ( psychological operations ) and legal harassment ... you can read about it here ... a lot of our heroes were targeted .... John Lennon, Martin Luther King, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

It was supposedly exposed and dismantled in 1971, but by all current accounts, it wasn't ... instead, it was refined to include community policing and forced underground, where it continues to this day ... it has now been labeled "gang stalking" and it is world-wide ... this is a website from England explaining the protocol ...

https://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/manchester/2007/04/368861.html?c=on

and if you don't believe me, then I can put you in touch with around 3000 victims of this program who will be happy to enlighten you ... housewives who went up against housing authorities,... veterans who protested against continuing war,... activists who fought corporate interests,.... many, many African-Americans ... many, many single women ... one's an ex-mayoral candidate, one is an emergency room physician ... I'm in contact with most of them and their lives are being destroyed ....they're all being beaten up by a modern day Cointelpro ...

I am one of these people. I was an animal activist and my life has been destroyed. And I will probably pay dearly for this posting so please pay close attention to what I say ....

If you try to expose this program then you are labeled as a "paranoid schizophrenic", or you are framed and incarcerated, or you meet with an accident, or you get suddenly ill, or your relatives get suddenly ill, or you are pushed into bankruptcy .... they do not want this information to get out because the whole thing was supposed to be shut down a long time ago ..... the Patriot Act opened the door for further abuse and privatisation of government security contractors opened the door to widespread corruption ...

This is not paranoia, this is serious, life-threatening BS, ... I am now involved in 3 class action lawsuits and I have copious documentation from many credible people describing my complete lack of mental illness, so please don't even go there ... I also have a petition on-line to the attorney general, among others, that has now been signed by almost 600 other victims ...

https://www.change.org/petitions/attorney-general-kamala-d-harris-investigate-and-prosecute-gang-stalking-in-california-2

Please take all of this information seriously because the perpetrators of this inhumane atrocity are counting on your skepticism so that they can continue with their dirty deeds ... this protocol is actually killing innocent people ... but it's our government, so what else is new ? ...

So this is why I take these ridiculous reports of politicians in their underwear with a grain of salt. I know too much to ever see something as black or white ... it's all government gray ... politicians, activists, the occupy movement, peace and justice groups ... they are all being watched and "corrected" should they step out of line ... we are already living in a fascist country, my friends, and we have been for some time ... our public "land of the free" persona is but a joke ... but, for the first time in decades, awareness is growing and it's all coming out, the silver lining perhaps ... but then, why do you think that they want to interfere with information on the internet?

And if you want to call me a conspiracy theorist, then thank you! ... here's a link about all of the conspiracy theories that were proven to be true, including cointelpro ....

https://www.infowars.com/33-conspira...n-should-know/

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

... So if you have dirt to spill; spill it. But refrain from opinion, offer fact. If you've got junk to turn over, you'll soon enough be a hero. And I say this in all seriousness.

---

Henry,

It would take a whistle-blower to confirm that Efren had been framed and he or she would have to spill the beans from Russia to escape intact. The information that I've provided is extremely relevant though, to this case or any other case involving political interruption,.... and if you can't see that then I will save my energy...

God knows, I have enough battles in my life without convincing you that Efren should be free to defend himself without interference in the form of extrajudicial punishment.... Isn't that what's wrong with this country at the moment? Punishment without trial? Guilty until proven innocent? ... even if he's guilty as charged, who are you to deny him his 6th amendment rights? .... are we back to the lynch mob again? ... let the courts do their job ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

I politely ask that you limit your information to the matter at hand, Mr. Carrillo and his arrest.

---

The police reported that the man (Efren Carrillo), wearing nothing but his undershorts and socks, then goes to the woman's front door, knocks on the door, says that he's her "neighbor," and runs away;

WHY DID EFREN CARRILLO RUN AWAY?

Sebastacat, being the smart cat that he is, has a hunch, but is still waiting for the REAL, TRUTHFUL answer to this question.......

Good question, Sebastacat, and I'm sure that the courts will address it ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:

I will now ask you this question: WHY DID EFREN CARRILLO RUN AWAY?

---

Henry,

You have no idea what's involved with this case, what Efren was working on, what information he might have uncovered, etc. ... we have a few facts and many guesses, ... yours, mine, and all the rest ... the possibility that he was framed is just one idea out of many, but if this is a possibility, which it is, then Cointelpro protocol would explain the motivation for such an act ....

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

I'm sorry Rosanne, but I don't buy that a local 'conspiracy' to discredit a relatively minor local politician

---

Arthunter.....

As to your statement that the courts will address this issue (Efren ran away) that may or may not be the case,
since this case could end with a plea bargain.

However, in Sebastacat's mind, that will be insufficient, as I and others -- as you've probably
guessed by now from reading the over 200 passionate posts in this one thread alone -- are expecting
credible answers from our elected county supervisor -- not more silence and evasion like we got following
the shameful San Diego incident.

And I will continue to speak out and post until we, his constituents, finally get them.

You're absolutely right, sebastacat ... an explanation should be offered ... and I support you 100% and hope that you continue to speak out .... that is your right and your duty as a resident of this county ... I only wish that more people shared your passion for local politics ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by sebastacat:

And I will continue to speak out and post until we, his constituents, finally get them.

---

Thanks for the giggle, Henry ...

Yes, I'm done also ... not sure that I would call this discussion silly, but your last posting did make me laugh .... there's nothing silly about Cointelpro, nothing at all .. it's a serious threat to our first amendment rights and a serious threat to anyone who ventures into the political arena ... enough said ....

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

By your argument, I might as well consider the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as having some legitimacy in explaining Efren's behavior as the Mormons believe that what we today term as Hispanics originated in ancient Hebrews populating what is now North and South America. Cause, hey, it's all just supposition right?

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Out of curiosity . Was it normal for Mr. Carrillo to be out at night in his underwear knocking on windows and running away? I would think if that was a normal pattern for him , then there could be a possibility of Mr. Carrillo being framed.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Henry Bernard:

So if you have dirt to spill; spill it.

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Arthunter.. I feel for you ...Yes this should be a thread on it's own and I believe that not enough people take this seriously and I can not say enough how everyone should be aware and be supportive of people dealing with this absolute disgusting ???? I can not even find the appropriate word to call it.. It is pure evil , very real and beyond scary.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

...
During the 50s and 60s the government sought to suppress political dissent by putting together a covert program called Cointelpro ... it was ugly and it was aimed at political activists ... the mission was a basic seek and destroy agenda using infiltration, psyops ( psychological operations ) and legal harassment ... you can read about it here ... a lot of our heroes were targeted .... John Lennon, Martin Luther King, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

...
And if you want to call me a conspiracy theorist, then thank you! ... here's a link about all of the conspiracy theories that were proven to be true, including cointelpro ....

https://www.infowars.com/33-conspira...n-should-know/

---

"we have a few facts and many guesses"... That pretty much says it all. Most of the "Facts" that we have come from the newspaper.

I've seen stories in the newspaper and later spoke with the people who were interviewed for those stories and they said things like... That's not what I said, or, That's not the way I said it, or, They took that completely out of context, or, I asked them not to print that part.

I'm sure you all have your own stories about being quoted properly.

The point is, the newspaper cannot always be trusted to print the real or complete truth when a story like this breaks. They love sensationalism, and this story just cries out for it! They could have gotten any of the details wrong and missed some important ones.

There is a much better chance to find out the truth (or at least something much closer to it) in a court of law with witnesses giving testimony under oath.

All of our chatter here is just noise... interesting noise, though nothing will come of it.

Carry on :wink2:

Tom

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

Henry,

You have no idea what's involved with this case, what Efren was working on, what information he might have uncovered, etc. ... we have a few facts and many guesses, ... yours, mine, and all the rest ... the possibility that he was framed is just one idea out of many, but if this is a possibility, which it is, then Cointelpro protocol would explain the motivation for such an act ....

---

what are you smoking?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

...Now this is very serious stuff and I'm going out on a limb here, so please keep the name calling to a minimum ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

---

I just got back from the Board of Supervisors' meeting. Today is July 30, 2013.

The meeting started around 8:30am and before 9am, ALL FOUR of the supervisors present STRONGLY CONDEMNED Carrillo's conduct.

Susan Gorin echoed Zane's comments on security for women. Gorin also echoed President Obama's comments on how he has felt the brunt of discrimination by talking about her own personal experiences as a woman, sometimes fearing the sound of footsteps behind her, sometimes looking around her in a restaurant, etc, etc.

Gorin stated emphatically, as other supervisors did, that elected public officeholders MUST BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD. And that Carrillo had violated the security of a person, which is an essential right that we all have. And that Carrillo had violated the security of a woman, with the obvious understanding that women are more vulnerable (precisely because of men like Carrillo). And that Carrillo, being public leader, with all of this piled on top of that fact is absolutely unacceptable. I could go on but I won't. You can read in the Press Democrat's website later today EVERYTHING that the supervisors said this morning and believe me, it is A LOT!
[The PD article is here. - Barry]

I will be returning this afternoon for the meeting's Public Comment and publicly ask for Carrillo's resignation.

Edward

Tommy,

I sincerely wish that this was the problem, but I do not do drugs ...

It took me a long time to believe all of this, so I understand your skepticism ... why on earth would the government be targeting innocent citizens? ... there are many answers to that ...

While you, and the good citizens of this county have been trying to improve our world by promoting non-toxic agendas and an equitable distribution of the wealth, the government, or corrupted elements within the government, have been using your tax money to study covert ways to stop you ... once a political opponent or "undesirable" citizen ( including African-Americans, outspoken single women, Native Americans, etc ) is put into this program, the ultimate goal is to subject them to experimentation with bio, chemical and directed energy weapons ... they, in essence, become lab rats ... the goal is control of the individual and eventually any opposing viewpoints ...

To get back to Efren, ... if someone wanted to remove him from office, it would be easy to influence his behavior ... covert drugs, gasses and directed energy weapons have been developed that decrease common sense, increase anger, cause confusion, increase sexual stimulation, and the list goes on ... this is a fact and verifiable through research .... and he would never know what hit him ... I go back to the police stating that he wasn't that drunk ... I go back to him suddenly "waking up", introducing himself, and running ... and why were there witnesses around at 3am? ...

This is just one possibility for his behavior ... I am not saying that this is what happened, but the whole thing does seem bizarre to me ... and, by the way, Efren did have knowledge of the protocol which I'm describing ... I know this because I told him about it ... shortly after his office offered me help, the incident in San Diego took place ... probably just a coincidence, but I thought that I should mention it ...

I realize that this is all very hard to believe, ... I denied this knowledge for many months, I simply did not want to believe it ... when I first heard these reports from people across the country and around the world I thought that these victims must all be crazy, but as I did research about these issues, I realized that they were not ... I'll file this realization under the heading of "disgusting but true" ...

Some good links ... educate yourselves ... we have a silent war on our hands and anyone at anytime could become a victim .... the ultimate form of ignorance is to deny that which you know nothing about ... and don't forget that these animals try like hell to discredit anyone who tries to report this, ( including the infiltration of internet forums ) ... but don't take my word for it, ... the facts speak for themselves ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXe-W2QPOuA - Jesse Ventura, ex navy seal and former US governor looks into the claims of electronic harassment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9WNGwceeok - victims testifying before the US Bioethics Committee ... (to skip a lot of the introduction advance the video to the 11:22 mark)

https://www.cointelprocontinuestoday.com/ - a website developed by a former lawyer, now a victim ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethi..._United_States - a history of non -
consensual government experimentation - a real eye opener ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

what are you smoking?

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Sebastacat to Tomcat: I agree with you partially and disagree with you partially.

I do not believe that we have just a "few" facts. I believe that we have quite a long list of undisputed facts at our disposal which can be used to form a meaningful opinion about the appropriateness of Efren's conduct and his fitness for public office and whether or not he violated the public's trust.

As for getting at the truth in court, while that certainly is the ultimate goal of any court proceeding, a lot depends on the witnesses themselves, i.e., will they take the oath which they are administered prior to testifying seriously and tell the truth? Will they be given a deal by the prosecutor prior to testifying which may color their testimony? Will they show up at all? These are all important factors which could bring to a screeching halt one's pursuit of truth and justice.

As for your contention that the story could have been inaccurately related to us and people could have been misquoted, you are quite right. However, I went back and checked the "corrections" section of the newspapers which printed stories about this incident, and I did not find that any corrections to those stories were submitted by anyone. I know that if I were misquoted in a news story or if my version of the incident was related inaccurately by a reporter that I would be the FIRST to submit a correction to the news source which printed the incorrect version of the story and demand that it be printed in an effort to set the record straight.

None of this, to my knowledge, has happened.

We are all hoping that the truth will indeed come out in the end, but the sad reality is that this case will probably end in a plea bargain of some sort, and that, unfortunately, will mean that no court proceeding will be had -- to the detriment of not only the residents of the fifth district who placed their trust in this man -- as well as those who didn't -- but all citizens of the County of Sonoma as well.

With all due respect sir ... you would ask for his resignation before he goes to trial? ... before he has a chance to defend himself? ... isn't that a presumption of guilt? ... isn't that what the sixth amendment protects against?

As a woman, I am very much in favor of women's rights, but I would also defend any accused man's right to a fair trial ... what's the rush? ... I doubt that Efren is going to be running around assaulting women before his trial ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:

I will be returning this afternoon for the meeting's Public Comment and publicly ask for Carrillo's resignation.

---

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

With all due respect sir ... you would ask for his resignation before he goes to trial? ... before he has a chance to defend himself? ... isn't that a presumption of guilt? ... isn't that what the sixth amendment protects against?

---

Whether or not Efren should continue to represent us is separate from whether or not he has committed and may be convicted of a crime (which are also two separate things!).

If it turns out that he is not convicted, and just has an alcohol problem, very poor judgement, no self control and raging hormones, and has lost the respect of his district and his peers, that's plenty of reason that he should step down. :waccosun:

I agree Barry, but doesn't he get to speak in his own defense so that we can determine those things? ... If you were accused of poor judgement, no self control and raging hormones, wouldn't you like the chance to defend yourself before the community destroys your career?

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Whether or not Efren should continue to represent us is separate from whether or not he has committed and may be convicted of a crime (which are also two separate things!).

If it turns out that he is not convicted, and just has an alcohol problem, very poor judgement, no self control and raging hormones, and has lost the respect of his district and his peers, that's plenty of reason that he should step down. :waccosun:

---

Peacevoyager has made a request of me and has asked me to direct all of you who wish to read her
most recent post to her Blog at the following address:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/showt...Colleen-s-Blog

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I agree Barry, but doesn't he get to speak in his own defense so that we can determine those things?

---

Certainly! He can speak out anytime, either as part of his trial (which I suspect he will accept a misdemeanor plea bargain to avoid) or just publicly and I encourage him to do so.

The simplest solution would be for him to make a public statement and then submit to the results of an independently commissioned poll with a large sample size taken a week later as to whether people want him to resign. But that's unlikely to happen.

Unfortunately, I suspect you're probably correct. A plea bargain will be made to avoid a trial and the facts getting out. This incident will get muffled, shoved under the carpet, and a bigger deal will be made out of Efren Carrillo's recovery in rehab. Efren Carrillo will go on in this capacity however people will look at him differently. So matters won't be the same. If enough people make their voices known about his resignation, then a recall might take place.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Certainly! He can speak out anytime, either as part of his trial (which I suspect he will accept a misdemeanor plea bargain to avoid) or just publicly and I encourage him to do so.

The simplest solution would be for him to make a public statement and then submit to the results of an independently commissioned poll with a large sample size taken a week later as to whether people want him to resign. But that's unlikely to happen.

---

Let's not lose sight of who the real victim is because Efren brought these troubles upon himself. I don't see him as a true victim. Furthermore, I remain highly skeptical that there will be a trial. I'm inclined to believe that a plea bargain will be made and that the facts will be kept behind closed doors so that he can continue on as Supervisor. He'll make some kind of public statement (with just enough remorse to evoke some sympathy) about how he has recovered from substance abuse and how badly he feels about what he did. He might have to grovel a bit but I'm sure he'll be more than willing to do that so that he can hold on to this job. Then, he'll probably devote a little extra time to groups for women's issues ie; domestic violence or something like that. Most likely Efren Carrillo will go on as he always has. Albeit a bit more humbled.

More than anything I'm hoping I'm completely wrong about this.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I agree Barry, but doesn't he get to speak in his own defense so that we can determine those things? ... If you were accused of poor judgement, no self control and raging hormones, wouldn't you like the chance to defend yourself before the community destroys your career?

---

I agree Barry ... and I do hope that he makes a public statement ... but he's in rehab, isn't he? ... I really just want to hear his side of the story ... I think that we owe that to anyone ...

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

Certainly! He can speak out anytime, either as part of his trial (which I suspect he will accept a misdemeanor plea bargain to avoid) or just publicly and I encourage him to do so.

The simplest solution would be for him to make a public statement and then submit to the results of an independently commissioned poll with a large sample size taken a week later as to whether people want him to resign. But that's unlikely to happen.

---

Is he really in rehab? There has been no official, formal verification of this. If someone has any pertinent supporting information, Sebastacat would certainly welcome it, and I'm sure several other concerned citizens would, too.

Also, this matter will only be swept under the rug if we, the people, allow it to be. In talking to several people this afternoon at the Board of Supervisors meeting, where several of us addressed the board and asked for Efren's resignation, I can tell you that if any attempt is made to sweep this under the rug by sealing the 9-1-1 calls or sealing the police report -- such as was done in San Diego -- that is NOT going to sit well, and we are going to demand that that not happen. And I hope that Sonoma County's largest daily, the Press Democrat, will use every legal tool at its disposal to make sure that it doesn't.

Speaking of the Press Democrat, I will respectfully remind them that shortly following the shameful San Diego incident, they pledged to the citizens of this county that "nothing" was going to get in their way of unearthing the truth regarding that incident.

Of course, the rest is history. Not only did they do "nothing," they just sat by idly while the story dissipated over time and people lost interest.

Things are radically different this time around. While Efren had the benefit of several hundred miles which he could use to hide the truth the last time around, he does not enjoy that benefit this time, since this incident happened right in his own back yard -- literally speaking.

This time around, the people of this county are demanding accountability -- and answers. No longer can he make up a lame story, such as he was "defending the honor of women," since what he did this time was the antithesis of defending the honor of a woman.

I feel that the four supervisors present at today's meeting took an all-important first step toward making it unmistakably clear that this kind of reprehensible conduct by an elected official will not be tolerated and must not become the norm. Quite frankly, I had thought that they were going to "circle the wagons." However, their brave and courageous responses -- thankfully -- proved me wrong.

In the coming days, it will be up to us -- ALL of us -- to continue to keep the interest in this incident high and our pressure on our elected supervisors up if we are to have a county government with any modicum of credibility.

In Sebastacat's opinion, due to the widespread publicity that this unfortunate and uncalled-for incident has garnered, there is a very high likelihood that the reputation of our wonderful county will suffer if yet another political rug-sweeping operation is allowed to take place -- like the one that happened last fall down in San Diego.

Let us all take this opportunity to strengthen our will and reaffirm our resolve that that will not happen yet again.

Here's the video from the morning's Board of Supervisors meeting regarding Efren, starting around the 1 min mark and goes on for another 10 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uU18yZ6f_v4

Just published in the PD

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...cles/130739993

This guy has to go!

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Zeno Swijtink:

Just published in the PD
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...cles/130739993

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Well, at least one good thing has come from this mess: this unintentionally hilarious quote from the PD article:
"I'm one of these people who like to see what the outcome is before I prejudge”.

Just one quick question.. How did Efren cut the screen if he was only in underwear and socks with a cellphone? That one fact keeps me thinking something is fishy.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Feed The Birds:

Just one quick question.. How did Efren cut the screen if he was only in underwear and socks with a cellphone? That one fact keeps me thinking something is fishy.

---

His cat aided and abetted and received the fishy as reward.

Quote:

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Posted in reply to the post by Feed The Birds:

Just one quick question.. How did Efren cut the screen if he was only in underwear and socks with a cellphone? That one fact keeps me thinking something is fishy.

---

ah.. time to get all Sherlocky! and did the dog bark in the night??

Trying to draw that kind of minute detail out of the sketchy reports in the media, especially since we all know there's a media conspiracy to obscure the real facts, is doomed to fail...

It doesn't take something near as sharp as a cat's claw -- or a knife -- to cut the cheap screens that they put on windows nowadays. A piece of brush or a sharp rock will do the job just fine.

And if there was a small fray already in the screen, inserting one's finger into said fray and pulling sideways would rip the screen wide open.

I know; I had to do it one time many years ago when I locked myself out of my former residence.

But it was my own house that I was breaking into, so no crime was being committed.........

REHAB.. A very serious place that can change ones future , give assistance to those who need it , help one define oneself.. and also an easy way out..

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Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:

I agree Barry ... and I do hope that he makes a public statement ... but he's in rehab, isn't he? ... I really just want to hear his side of the story ... I think that we owe that to anyone ...

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