It’s never a contest when the interests of big business are pitted against the public interest. So if we manage to get health care “reform” this time around it will be the kind of reform that benefits the very people who have given us a failed system, and thus made reform so necessary.
Forget about a crackdown on price-gouging drug companies and predatory insurance firms. That’s not happening. With the public pretty well confused about what is going on, we’re headed — at best — toward changes that will result in a lot more people getting covered, but that will not control exploding health care costs and will leave industry leaders feeling like they’ve hit the jackpot.
The hope of a government-run insurance option is all but gone. So there will be no effective alternative for consumers in the market for health coverage, which means no competitive pressure for private insurers to rein in premiums and other charges. (Forget about the nonprofit cooperatives. That’s like sending peewee footballers up against the Super Bowl champs.)
Insurance companies are delighted with the way “reform” is unfolding. Think of it: The government is planning to require most uninsured Americans to buy health coverage. Millions of young and healthy individuals will be herded into the industry’s welcoming arms. This is the population the insurers drool over.
This additional business — a gold mine — will more than offset the cost of important new regulations that, among other things, will prevent insurers from denying coverage to applicants with pre-existing conditions or imposing lifetime limits on benefits. Poor people will either be funneled into Medicaid, which will have its eligibility ceiling raised, or will receive a government subsidy to help with the purchase of private insurance.
If the oldest and sickest are on Medicare, and the poorest are on Medicaid, and the young and the healthy are required to purchase private insurance without the option of a competing government-run plan — well, that’s reform the insurance companies can believe in.
And then there are the drug companies. A couple of months ago the Obama administration made a secret and extremely troubling deal with the drug industry’s lobbying arm, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. The lobby agreed to contribute $80 billion in savings over 10 years and to sponsor a multimillion-dollar ad campaign in support of health care reform.
The White House, for its part, agreed not to seek additional savings from the drug companies over those 10 years. This resulted in big grins and high fives at the drug lobby. The White House was rolled. The deal meant that the government’s ability to use its enormous purchasing power to negotiate lower drug prices was off the table.
The $80 billion in savings (in the form of discounts) would apply only to a certain category of Medicare recipients — those who fall into a gap in their drug coverage known as the doughnut hole — and only to brand-name drugs. (Drug industry lobbyists probably chuckled, knowing that some patients would switch from generic drugs to the more expensive brand names in order to get the industry-sponsored discounts.)
To get a sense of how sweet a deal this is for the drug industry, compare its offer of $8 billion in savings a year over 10 years with its annual profits of $300 billion a year. Robert Reich, who served as labor secretary in the Clinton administration, wrote that the deal struck by the Obama White House was very similar to the “deal George W. Bush struck in getting the Medicare drug benefit, and it’s proven a bonanza for the drug industry.”
The bonanza to come would be even larger, he said, “given all the Boomers who will be enrolling in Medicare over the next decade.”
While it is undoubtedly important to bring as many people as possible under the umbrella of health coverage, the way it is being done now does not address what President Obama and so many other advocates have said is a crucial component of reform — bringing the ever-spiraling costs of health care under control. Those costs, we’re told, are hamstringing the U.S. economy, making us less competitive globally and driving up the budget deficit.
Giving consumers the choice of an efficient, nonprofit, government-run insurance plan would have moved us toward real cost control, but that option has gone a-glimmering. The public deserves better. The drug companies, the insurance industry and the rest of the corporate high-rollers have their tentacles all over this so-called reform effort, squeezing it for all it’s worth.
Meanwhile, the public — struggling with the worst economic downturn since the 1930s — is looking on with great anxiety and confusion. If the drug companies and the insurance industry are smiling, it can only mean that the public interest is being left behind.
08-18-2009, 09:34 AM
Gayla
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:
Has anybody here wondered, as I have, where "BizWrangler" came up with the original post that began this very active thread?
I did a google search on "Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed..."
I propose each of you do that as well and see what kind of source BizWrangler depends on for his information.
And then I propose Barry remove this entire thread.
-Jeff
I did a Google search on "Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed..." and there was no match. Kindly post a link, next time you want us to read something.
08-18-2009, 10:03 AM
Braggi
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Gayla:
I did a Google search on "Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed..." and there was no match. Kindly post a link, next time you want us to read something.
When I clicked on the link that matched exactly it returned a 404 error which means the document has been removed. Sadly, the disgusting, racist, sexist website that hosted the document remains.
Not sure why the search didn't work for you Gayla.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 10:48 AM
Hotspring 44
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
[quote=Braggi;95771] “Has anybody here wondered as I have where "BizWrangler" came up with the original post that began this very active thread?”
My answer is yes; and my guess was pretty close.
[quote=Braggi;95771] “Obamacare - are you paying attention? The communists have landed”
And: www.niggermania.net/forum/nigger-barack-hussein-obama/32810-obamacare-you-paying-attentionia.html. (Note: 404) Whereas; I got the 404 web site not found message.
I guess you didn't send the link; because; (?), but it's still the same as sending a dead link or sending the link that you yourself haven't read (?). I'm not trying to be harsh. I was just disappointed in getting the 404 web site not found message!
Maybe you could have mentioned that.
I noticed that the title of those web pages are no longer linked with Google in the Google search (the ones that, when you click it, you end up with the 404 web site not found message) are quite inflammatory to say the least. But it is at this point in time, now a dead (404) page, and only gives a hint of what it might have been said.
[quote=Braggi;95771] “I propose each of you do that as well and see what kind of source BizWrangler depends on for his information.”
I vaguely recall going to a link many weeks ago, when this thread started and a web page saying those exact words somewhere, it could have been that exact web site, but I don't remember for certain.
BTW here is the web page that I found in the past that very specifically pertains to the original post of this thread. (BTW I did mention it, post it, and link it in one of my previous posts in this thread.) https://www.rememberourconstitution....ing-attention/
Here are a couple of others: https://www.thewoodlandsteaparty.com...stein-twitter/
And: https://twitter.com/Fleckman.
I thoroughly read the first one and skimmed over the second one. I did not bother with the one in twitter, I don't do twitter.
[quote=Braggi;95771] “I propose each of you do that as well and see what kind of source BizWrangler depends on for his information.”
Been there, done that.
[quote=Braggi;95771] “And then I propose Barry remove this entire thread.”
I totally disagree with doing that for several reasons.
1. it’s a form of censorship.
2. There are a lot of worthwhile posts in the thread.
3. It is very educational to see what people say, why they say it, and what information and sources they utilize for their arguments.
4. it’s a good study topic in different ways and reasoning’s of what and why people use and why they have the opinions that they do. (Educational).
5. There would be that much less information available of whom, why and how certain entities use media, spread scare tactics, and disinformation etc. etc and the mechanisms used to monkey wrench things such as health care reform, for example.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:
Has anybody here wondered, as I have, where "BizWrangler" came up with the original post that began this very active thread?
I did a google search on "Obamacare - are you paying attention?
The communists have landed..."
I propose each of you do that as well and see what kind of source BizWrangler depends on for his information.
And then I propose Barry remove this entire thread.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 11:14 AM
Hotspring 44
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
[quote=Braggi;95784] “Not sure why the search didn't work for you Gayla.”
Braggi: This is what I got (from your link) when I went to the very top of the page: www.waccobb.net/.../55817-obamacare-scares-daylights-out-me.html .
Braggi: which one of these 1,340 for Obamacare - are you payingattention? The communists havelanded ;specifically, were you referring to? I don't know about you but I don't have that much time or energy to do deal with that many web pages just to figure out what your exact point is considering the fact that I think I already get it.
When I clicked on the link that matched exactly it returned a 404 error which means the document has been removed. Sadly, the disgusting, racist, sexist website that hosted the document remains.
Not sure why the search didn't work for you Gayla.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 11:20 AM
Neshamah
Re: insurance industry scares the daylights out of me!
If you don't want auto-insurance, you can simply not drive and take mass transit instead.
If you don't want health insurance, well, you can't exactly not live. Mandated coverage is the grossest injustice in the various plans being talked about. Just like the prescription drug benefit, it is a way to ensure larger cash flows for corporations without giving any incentive for them to improve in any way. In the meantime, public input not in agreement with Obama is being treated as all equally extremist (the entire mainstream media) and/or racist (Newsweek/MSNBC.)
As for the public "option" it can be efficient until it achieves a monopoly. After that there is no telling what happens if we get a Bush III into office. Not all Presidents are competent, and I've never seen Congress very competent about anything, exactly because they style themselves experts in everything. <-- This is the fundamental problem.
Congress is trying to do it all at once, and so the bill is so big that lobbyists can sneak in whatever they want. There are smaller steps that can be taken.
I guess I fail to see why everyone is dismissing the idea of a cooperative, or laws prohibiting insurers from testing for pre-existing conditions, or tax incentives for insurers that offer more affordable coverage to more people or for existing non-profit organizations to do more to help the currently uninsured. Charity has historically been the domain of religion, and government charity is simply government religion.
~ Jessica
08-18-2009, 12:10 PM
Hotspring 44
Re: insurance industry scares the daylights out of me!
[quote=Neshamah;95804] “I guess I fail to see why everyone is dismissing the idea of a cooperative, or laws prohibiting insurers from testing for pre existing conditions, or tax incentives for insurers that offer more affordable coverage to more people or for existing non profit organizations to do more to help the currently uninsured.”
Many co-ops are scams in the first place.
Aren't tax incentives just another form of bail outs or government giveaways?
Where are the nonprofits going to get the money from? Is it one of those so-called “options” that are absolutely required like income tax?
I think the term existing nonprofit organization is a good one. But I'm not so sure there are enough of them; I think there needs to be more of them than what exists today to make it work effectively.
I think the “fix” in favor of the for-profit health-care system as a whole, is in! And it's just a matter of whether or not, between certain governments entities behind closed doors with the cabal of pharmaceutical companies and HMO’s etc. under the guise of “health-care reform” can get away with fooling the public again. These (and others combined) corporations will make subjects out of citizens, if we don't keep some sort of citizen control on those situations.
[quote=Neshamah;95804] “Charity has historically been the domain of religion and government charity is simply government religion.”
I would be more inclined to call it subjugation when the government is involved making decisions about things like everyone has to purchase insurance simply because you're alive and desperation when a person has to resort to religious charity from an entity of which has a religion that they don't themselves believe in.
I thought America was supposed to be an entity that has some sort of a separation between church and state.
[quote=Neshamah;95804] “Mandated coverage is the grossest injustice in the various plans being talked about.”
Yes; unless it is government-sponsored and everybody is taxed like Social Security, for example, only more efficiently (in other words, no ceilings on income, the more you make the more you pay; period), I would hope. And of course everybody has unbiased coverage to the benefit.
But to mandate somebody to purchase insurance from a for-profit company or an ineffective, irresponsible, deadbeat co-op, or some such beast just because you're alive in the first place is absolutely subjugating the public at which point all freedom is essentially lost and eventually forgotten! If somebody doesn't pay the bill, which they cannot afford then they will go directly to prison to a hard labor camp is an unacceptable, diabolical, and horrible outcome!
What do you think those want to be secret FEMA concentration camps are anyway?
I'm not trying to be an alarmist. I'm thinking that people should just think about and consider what's happening.
Single-payer health care is really the only way to go into the future without being subjugated.
I'm hoping some of the smarter senators are going to put the co-op situation in lieu of affordable government alternatives to private unaffordable requirements DOA, and not even consider it. The only problem is I think that the Republicans in Congress will vote for it!
I think that it's getting pretty dicey and that the whole thing is well on its way to a train wreck that has so much momentum that it cannot stop in time before something gets screwed up. It's just a matter of who and or what will get evacuated away from the point of impact so to speak at this point.
At the end of the day the poor and uninsured will still be poor and uninsured. The real question is whether or not the poor and uninsured will be required to pay something that they don't have with the threat of prison sentences if they do not pay something they are incapable of paying; and whether or not the government entities will try to foist the whole bill onto the middle class, which in turn makes the middle class resent poor people even more! Diabolical, I say, diabolical!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Neshamah:
If you don't want auto-insurance, you can simply not drive and take mass transit instead.
If you don't want health insurance, well, you can't exactly not live. Mandated coverage is the grossest injustice in the various plans being talked about. Just like the prescription drug benefit, it is a way to ensure larger cash flows for corporations without giving any incentive for them to improve in any way. In the meantime, public input not in agreement with Obama is being treated as all equally extremist (the entire mainstream media) and/or racist (Newsweek/MSNBC.)
As for the public "option" it can be efficient until it achieves a monopoly. After that there is no telling what happens if we get a Bush III into office. Not all Presidents are competent, and I've never seen Congress very competent about anything, exactly because they style themselves experts in everything. <-- This is the fundamental problem.
Congress is trying to do it all at once, and so the bill is so big that lobbyists can sneak in whatever they want. There are smaller steps that can be taken.
I guess I fail to see why everyone is dismissing the idea of a cooperative, or laws prohibiting insurers from testing for pre-existing conditions, or tax incentives for insurers that offer more affordable coverage to more people or for existing non-profit organizations to do more to help the currently uninsured. Charity has historically been the domain of religion, and government charity is simply government religion.
~ Jessica
08-18-2009, 02:18 PM
justme
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Boring!!!!!!!!:smkdev:
08-18-2009, 02:29 PM
Neshamah
Re: A bill no one understands scares the daylights out of me!
Two very quick points. I do not think anyone is talking about prison time for those who do not get health insurance. They would just be forced to pay tax penalties.
Being forced to pay into social security, especially for young people who will never get anything from it, is just as wrong.
08-18-2009, 02:59 PM
Braggi
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
... which one of these 1,340 ... specifically, were you referring to? ...
I was referring to the exactly one that contains the quote exactly. The one on top that shows the disgusting, racist title of the site the article was posted on. The fact that clicking the link brings up a 404 error means the document has been taken down, not that the site is dead, which, sadly, it's not. It's still there in all its disgusting, racist, sexist nature.
So go ahead and check it out if you want to, though I don't recommend it.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 03:22 PM
Braggi
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by justme:
Boring!!!!!!!!:smkdev:
Thanks for the erudite contribution to this discussion.
You really raise the level of discourse here.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 08:42 PM
ChristineL
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
I found out first hand that the combination of having had a few really bad financial months and having no savings combined with being brought in to Hospital Emergency in total crisis gets you the best care. No insurance company second-guessed my doctors, I was given every test my doctor considered necessary and was very well cared for. Emergency MediCal (CMSP) paid for everything. Being uninsured, had I gone to the Emergency Room saying I had difficulty breathing, I would have owed a fortune in medical bills and not been admitted. However, coming into emergency with all the bells and whistles of full respiratory arrest....
Had I had medical insurance, I would still be paying off ridiculous deductibles and uncovered tests and drugs. They might have refused to pay for any of it as I was a smoker at the time even though what happened had nothing to do with my smoking.
The rest of this is just general commentary...not specifically in response to you.
I did know several people who have died due to Insurance Companies delaying tests and treatments....Kaiser as well. Maybe, preventive does not save money, but I'd be willing to bet early detection does. I don't see how people can sincerely believe that care is not rationed now...I was born and raised in France originally...care is not denied to the disabled and the elderly...but, yes, Terry Schiavo would not have been on a respirator for years and years...if you consider that restriscting care...
My favorite story as someone who is not insured was when I was told several years ago that I qualified for free breast cancer screening but made too much money to qualify for treatment!?!? If I could not afford the test, I could afford the treatment?!?! (I had found a lump in my breast at the time). I would be more likely to die of breast cancer if we have a government plan? And honestly...if peole like me (hard workers not covered by an employer with pre-existing conditions), or anyone else for that matter,
can have access to medical care, I don't care if it's Socialism or what name it goes by. Medical care should not be a for-profit industry. What justification can anyone give for CEO's of medical insurance companies making millions while their customers are denied care?
Who has the right to decide that the chamber-maid is less worthy of access to medical care than the Senator? All workers, from the garbage collector to the President are necessary for the smooth functioning of society...access to medical care should not depend on how much money a job pays or if the company someone works for offers medical benefits.
My elderly aunts and uncles in France were never denied any medical care, my two disabled cousins are well covered and live good lives...One of my cousins not only was treated for breast cancer at no cost to her, but as she was still young and childless, the surgeon removed the lump in a manner that would not disfigure her and would not damage her ability to nurse.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:
In other words, d-cat can't support the very specific statistic he quoted, so we can ignore the post, but you're willing to believe it for some reason. You are correct in that it doesn't take a genius to think that way.
I'm not certain at all that the average US health care consumer waits longer for breast cancer treatment. I know a great many people who have "full" health care coverage die each year because their insurance companies delay or fail to approve treatments altogether. How does that work for the tens of millions of people in the US who have no coverage?
I'm not sure how that plays out in England, but I'd like to know. Of the people I hear interviewed on the radio, most are very happy with the national health care they are living with, and most of the people from the US are complaining about how badly the insurance companies treat them.
A national health care coverage would solve these problems, not create them. It doesn't take a genius to see that, but a genius certainly could.
-Jeff
08-18-2009, 09:39 PM
justme
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Braggi:
Thanks for the erudite contribution to this discussion.
You really raise the level of discourse here.
-Jeff
You are very welcome....:wink:
08-19-2009, 10:45 PM
gypsygirl61
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
thank you christine for some sanity on this subject...without repeating too much of what you have already said...i asked my mother the same question today. "can you honestly say that health care is not being rationed in the us as we speak?" as long as any of us are denied health care for any reason whatsoever, well yes we can definitely say that it is being rationed...
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Christine:
I found out first hand that the combination of having had a few really bad financial months and having no savings combined with being brought in to Hospital Emergency in total crisis gets you the best care. No insurance company second-guessed my doctors, I was given every test my doctor considered necessary and was very well cared for. Emergency MediCal (CMSP) paid for everything. Being uninsured, had I gone to the Emergency Room saying I had difficulty breathing, I would have owed a fortune in medical bills and not been admitted. However, coming into emergency with all the bells and whistles of full respiratory arrest....
Had I had medical insurance, I would still be paying off ridiculous deductibles and uncovered tests and drugs. They might have refused to pay for any of it as I was a smoker at the time even though what happened had nothing to do with my smoking.
The rest of this is just general commentary...not specifically in response to you.
I did know several people who have died due to Insurance Companies delaying tests and treatments....Kaiser as well. Maybe, preventive does not save money, but I'd be willing to bet early detection does. I don't see how people can sincerely believe that care is not rationed now...I was born and raised in France originally...care is not denied to the disabled and the elderly...but, yes, Terry Schiavo would not have been on a respirator for years and years...if you consider that restriscting care...
My favorite story as someone who is not insured was when I was told several years ago that I qualified for free breast cancer screening but made too much money to qualify for treatment!?!? If I could not afford the test, I could afford the treatment?!?! (I had found a lump in my breast at the time). I would be more likely to die of breast cancer if we have a government plan? And honestly...if peole like me (hard workers not covered by an employer with pre-existing conditions), or anyone else for that matter,
can have access to medical care, I don't care if it's Socialism or what name it goes by. Medical care should not be a for-profit industry. What justification can anyone give for CEO's of medical insurance companies making millions while their customers are denied care?
Who has the right to decide that the chamber-maid is less worthy of access to medical care than the Senator? All workers, from the garbage collector to the President are necessary for the smooth functioning of society...access to medical care should not depend on how much money a job pays or if the company someone works for offers medical benefits.
My elderly aunts and uncles in France were never denied any medical care, my two disabled cousins are well covered and live good lives...One of my cousins not only was treated for breast cancer at no cost to her, but as she was still young and childless, the surgeon removed the lump in a manner that would not disfigure her and would not damage her ability to nurse.
08-20-2009, 12:17 AM
broadbandersnatch
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Clancy:
You poor thing, you have so much to be afraid of. What with our socialized police and fire departments, socialized highways and schools the commies and Satan have got you surrounded!
Not to mention, infrastructure such as roads bridges etc, Social Security and
Medicare!
Apologies for over-posting, but I just read the above. As usual, Joe Bageant nails it.
My only question for him is, how many rednecks read Guy Debord? Not many, is my bet!
"Mad" Miles
:burngrnbounce:
08-31-2009, 12:42 PM
ChristineL
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Just wanted to post this little story for those of you who think the government option means rationed care: My dear friend Larry, who has supposedly excellent medical insurance coverage, started having trouble swallowing in Nov. of '08, by Christmas he had lost over 40 pounds and could no longer swallow. Starting in Nov. his doctor pushed for a CAT scan...it took the Insurance Company until February to approve it, and then only because his doctor so strongly pushed for it. Larry turned out to have an unusually aggressive form of esophagal cancer. He was in Stage 4. My question would be, had he been given the tests earlier, would he have been in Stage 4? He is, according to his team of doctors, the one in a hundred to be "cured" of this cancer. How much money would have been saved if he'd had the tests earlier when the tumors were smaller and less numerous? They almost killed him and people are worried about death panels and rationed care? We have them, they're called Medical Insurance Companies.
A couple of weeks ago Larry's wife, Bethany, received a call from a social worker offering in home nursing care. This would provide, she was told, someone to help with his care who would decide when Larry needed to be taken to the hospital as well as determining at what point he should be placed in Hospice. Anyone else smell rationed care??? They would have completely lost control over his medical decisions.
09-01-2009, 03:36 PM
JaneyPDelaney
Re: insurance industry scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Neshamah:
If you don't want auto-insurance, you can simply not drive and take mass transit instead.
If you don't want health insurance, well, you can't exactly not live. Mandated coverage is the grossest injustice in the various plans being talked about.
As for the public "option" it can be efficient until it achieves a monopoly. After that there is no telling what happens if we get a Bush III into office. Not all Presidents are competent, and I've never seen Congress very competent about anything, exactly because they style themselves experts in everything. <-- This is the fundamental problem.
Congress is trying to do it all at once, and so the bill is so big that lobbyists can sneak in whatever they want. There are smaller steps that can be taken.
I guess I fail to see why everyone is dismissing the idea of a cooperative, or laws prohibiting insurers from testing for pre-existing conditions, or tax incentives for insurers that offer more affordable coverage to more people or for existing non-profit organizations to do more to help the currently uninsured. Charity has historically been the domain of religion, and government charity is simply government religion.
~ Jessica
As to the idea of health care co ops, I have yet to see any detailed plan description that reassures me. I am currently uninsured, but I carried Kaiser coverage for years, as an individual, until it got just too costly. The final three years, I was able to get that coverage through what is a kind of co-op -- a local builders supply group for small business owners. Since I had a small home business on the side, doing bookkeeping, I was able to pay a fee to join this organization and then access the group rates for health care. By June '08, my individual plan was over $450/month! So that's the discounted, co-op rate, which is why I'm not enthused when I hear politicians spouting talk equating health care reform with the creation of co-ops.
Second, you expressed a concern about the public option, and the changing of administrations. I think you might be saying that we could get a public option under Obama, then have it rescinded under a different President (?). It's certainly a valid point, however I think the politics of taking away something are much more difficult than trying to prevent it from being offered in the first place. Medicare was not an easy sell, but the Democrats succeeded in passing it. Now, no politician in their right mind would try to dismantle Medicare.
My own hope is for a robust public option, allowing people to opt into Medicare, maybe for an annual fee until they turn 65. For those who are indigent, the fee can be waived. For those like me, who have a decent income yet can't afford even $250 per month for health insurance (plus co-pays, non-covered visits, and the like), the option of participating in a Medicare-type coverage for say, $500 per year, would be heaven sent. I would even gladly pay $1,000 per year to have such coverage.
The process is already in place -- doctors already accept Medicare patients, hospitals already accept Medicare patients, as do rest homes, nursing homes, and a whole host of medical providers. I imagine many health care providers would jump at leaving the paperwork nightmare of private insurance reimbursement behind to take on a new Medicare patient instead.
09-02-2009, 09:05 AM
pkonez
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
There is an excellent article on the editorial page of the Press Democrat today (Sept. 2) entitled the "The five biggest myths about health care around the world", by T.R. Reid. He really breaks down the fear-based misconceptions about what it would mean for the U.S. to have a Government administered health insurance system. The article can be accessed on-line by following this link: The five biggest myths about health care around the world | PressDemocrat.com | The Press Democrat | Santa Rosa, CA
09-03-2009, 11:03 AM
Lorrie
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
I'm bleeding...(get it?) over to this thread. lol I have a joke that applies here...
It's not clear where the AMA stands on the new plan...
The American Medical Association has weighed in on the new Obama health
care proposals.
The Allergists voted to scratch it, but the
Dermatologists advised not to make any rash moves.
The Gastroenterologists had sort of a gut feeling about it,
but the Neurologists thought the Administration had a lot of nerve.
The Obstetricians felt they were all laboring under a misconception.
Ophthalmologists considered the idea shortsighted.
Pathologists yelled, "Over my dead body!" while the
Pediatricians said, "Oh, Grow up!"
The Psychiatrists thought the whole idea was madness,
while the Radiologists could see right through it.
Surgeons decided to wash their hands of the whole thing.
The Internists thought it was a bitter pill to swallow, and
the Plastic Surgeons said, "This puts a whole new face on the matter...."
The Podiatrists thought it was a step forward, but
the Urologists were pissed off at the whole idea.
The Anesthesiologists thought the whole idea was a gas,
and the Cardiologists didn't have the heart to say no.
In the end, the Proctologists won out,
leaving the entire decision up to the a**holes in Washington.
09-09-2009, 07:06 PM
ChristineL
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
I unfortunately have a sad follow-up to this story. While the Insurance Company once again argued against a follow-up cat-scan, Larry formed new tumors that were not confirmed until he was admitted through the emergency room due to inability to swallow anything, including water. There is nothing more that can be done and he is being sent home to die. Hospice care is being arranged at home.
Maybe this would have happened anyway, but...maybe if cat-scans had been immediately done, the original cancer would have been more treatable, maybe its complete return could have been stopped.
I'm not afraid of Nationalized Medicine, or Socialism, I'm afraid of Medical Insurance companies whose massive administrative costs and CEO salaries are paid for by the premiums and require denial of medical care to continue being paid.
Those who are satisfied with their insurance plans have not yet suffered anything serious enough to be denied needed tests, medications or physical therapy...or for their insurances to find a way to drop them altogether.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Christine:
Just wanted to post this little story for those of you who think the government option means rationed care: My dear friend Larry, who has supposedly excellent medical insurance coverage, started having trouble swallowing in Nov. of '08, by Christmas he had lost over 40 pounds and could no longer swallow. Starting in Nov. his doctor pushed for a CAT scan...it took the Insurance Company until February to approve it, and then only because his doctor so strongly pushed for it. Larry turned out to have an unusually aggressive form of esophagal cancer. He was in Stage 4. My question would be, had he been given the tests earlier, would he have been in Stage 4? He is, according to his team of doctors, the one in a hundred to be "cured" of this cancer. How much money would have been saved if he'd had the tests earlier when the tumors were smaller and less numerous? They almost killed him and people are worried about death panels and rationed care? We have them, they're called Medical Insurance Companies.
A couple of weeks ago Larry's wife, Bethany, received a call from a social worker offering in home nursing care. This would provide, she was told, someone to help with his care who would decide when Larry needed to be taken to the hospital as well as determining at what point he should be placed in Hospice. Anyone else smell rationed care??? They would have completely lost control over his medical decisions.
09-09-2009, 09:46 PM
justme
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
I have heard for weeks the argument for and against the health care bill. I admit, I haven't read it in it's entirety. I have just one question...
How more "Socialist" is the health care bill than "Social Security? I rely on health care. And yes, I will rely on my Social Security benefits. Social Security contributions are based on income, as, I believe are the health bill's.
One difference however, is that as long as I work, I contribute to my benefits at retirement.
Not so with health care. I work 32 hrs a week and my health care is non-existent. It all revolves around my employers ability, and desire to offer it. Plus there is the pre-existing condition issue.
I am open to any information that anyone has to these comparison. If you just want to sound off at me... please don't. I am looking for honest, reliable and documented information...:thumbsup:
By MELISSA NELSON, Associated Press December 31/2011
PENSACOLA, Fla. – A federal judge declared the Obama administration's health care overhaul unconstitutional Monday, siding with 26 states that argued people cannot be required to buy health insurance.
Senior U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson agreed with the states that the new law violates people's rights by forcing them to buy health insurance by 2014 or face penalties. He went a step further than a previous ruling against the law, declaring the entire thing unconstitutional if the insurance requirement does not hold up.
Attorneys for the administration had argued that the states did not have standing to challenge the law and that the case should be dismissed. Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler said Monday the department strongly disagrees with Vinson's ruling and intends to appeal.
"There is clear and well-established legal precedent that Congress acted within its constitutional authority in passing this law and we are confident that we will ultimately prevail on appeal," she said in a statement.
The final step will almost certainly be the U.S. Supreme Court. Two other federal judges have already upheld the law and a federal judge in Virginia ruled the insurance mandate unconstitutional but stopped short of voiding the entire thing.
At issue was whether the government is reaching beyond its constitutional power to regulate interstate commerce by requiring citizens to purchase health insurance or face tax penalties.
Vinson said it is, writing in his 78-page ruling that if the government can require people to buy health insurance, it could also regulate food the same way.
"Or, as discussed during oral argument, Congress could require that people buy and consume broccoli at regular intervals," he wrote, "Not only because the required purchases will positively impact interstate commerce, but also because people who eat healthier tend to be healthier, and are thus more productive and put less of a strain on the health care system."
Obama administration attorneys had argued that health care is part of the interstate commerce system. They said the government can levy a tax penalty on Americans who decide not to purchase health insurance because all Americans are consumers of medical care.
But attorneys for the states said the administration was essentially coercing the states into participating in the overhaul by holding billions of Medicaid dollars hostage. The states also said the federal government is violating the Constitution by forcing a mandate on the states without providing money to pay for it.
Opponents of the health overhaul praised the decision Monday afternoon. House Speaker John Boehner said it shows Senate Democrats should follow a House vote to repeal the law.
"Today's decision affirms the view, held by most of the states and a majority of the American people, that the federal government should not be in the business of forcing you to buy health insurance and punishing you if you don't," he said in a statement.
Democrats just as quickly slammed the decision.
"This lawsuit is nothing more than an attempt by those who want to raise taxes on small businesses, increase prescription prices for seniors and allow insurance companies to once again deny sick children medical care," Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said in a prepared statement.
Former Florida Republican Attorney General Bill McCollum filed the lawsuit just minutes after President Barack Obama signed the 10-year, $938 billion health care bill into law in March. He chose a court in Pensacola, one of Florida's most conservative cities. The nation's most influential small business lobby, the National Federation of Independent Business, also joined.
Officials in the states that sued lauded Vinson's decision. Almost all of them have Republican governors, attorneys general or both.
"In making his ruling, the judge has confirmed what many of us knew from the start; ObamaCare is an unprecedented and unconstitutional infringement on the liberty of the American people," Florida GOP Gov. Rick Scott said in a statement.
Other states that joined the suit are: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Indiana, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Louisiana, Maine, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, North Dakota, Ohio, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin and Wyoming. ___ Associated Press Writer Curt Anderson in Miami contributed to this report.
02-02-2011, 12:17 PM
Hotspring 44
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Not.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by mhqc:
Now, if we could only find some private enterprise arrangement that could do for American healthcare what privatization has done for promoting democracy, American ideals and freedom overseas, we’d really have something great.
Or not.
/mhqc/
02-03-2011, 01:31 PM
Louella
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
Not.
Obama care is not perfect. But I have already experienced good changes from it. My 22 Year old daughter who's about to graduate from UC Berkeley will have insurance through our plan. Also effective this January, new preventative care laws are making ( I say this because you have to twist their arms) my insurance pay for tests that are not included in my deductable. WhIch I have a very high deductable since we are self employed and have to pay for high rates otherwise. But I encourage you to get involved in the Single Payer Now, which is backed by California progressive Mark Leno. Also Health Care for All. org and see the history of this bill SB 810 They almost past Single Payer system in California last year. And it may go through this year. But they need our support!!
02-03-2011, 03:16 PM
Louella
Re: ObamaCare scares the daylights out of me!
[This is a nice balance report telling both sides. What I think is damning is that the Republicans immediately picked
very Republican states that they knew would find in favor of throwing out the new health care bill. They also know that the one
way to stop the funding of it is to not pool enough tax money from everyone. In Europe they know everyone has to give their share. We have people here waiting until they are very sick and then running to the hospital for free very expensive care. These people can pay a relatively low tax or get insurance that they can afford through the government pool that has been offered in the the Obama health care plan. Also take note that the other states in favor of not having the health care plan are all pretty conservative states. And keep in mind that when you buy insurance they can raise the premium can go up anytime at
as much as they feel like, even they are already having record profits right now while we struggle. At least they can't just dump you when you get sick.
I have got a question though. What is considered a small business. I heard a Republican on the media say that a very large,
Millions of dollars in profit company, was a small business. I believe they are part of the 1% of the rich. All the people I know that have a small business like I do earn a salary per year between $50.000 to maybe $100.000 a year. Especially after you pay workers with taxes, overhead costs etc. What are we a tiny weeny business? Once again taxes should be cut on people earning less than $250.000 a year. I heard on the corporate news (TV) that we can get free tax filing help if we earn less than
$80.000 a year and they casually mentioned that was 70% of all Americans. If you Listen very carefully you will hear fleeting bits of real information on corporate news. Not that often. I recommend Listening to Free Speech TV.
