Printable View
This thread has been split off the the active Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow???? thread as much of the discussion was revolving around Nancy and her concerns and concerns about her posts, so that the above thread can continued to be focused on the larger issues involved.
Barry
Moderator
Nancy is the only person that has been dominating the discussion.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:
She is welcome to post on this thread, so the Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow???? thread can remain about that, and not Nancy's personal issues.
This doesn't make sense!
[Willfully and blatantly lying
Nancy, You seem to feel it's OK to use this kind of abusive language in your posts. I don't think I'm the only Wacovian reading them and thinking it's definitely not.
The tricky thing with free speech is the requirement that we defend speech with which we disagree. Of course, this is your board, so you get to moderate it according to your taste. but if "conscious community" means there's some component of free speech to it, then you have to defend Nancy's right (and the rights of others) to say disagreeable things.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Similarly, I don't see how "dominating the discussion" is meaningful here: does that mean "posts a lot"? Says stuff that gets folks riled? It's not like conversation in the real world, where my shouting might interfere with your talking. Not the same resource constraint online.
I'm sure you're trying to do an excellent job of moderation, but right now your guidelines appear vague--and so your decisions seem arbitrary, to me at least.
Nancy is welcome to post as much as she wants here and post once a day in the farmer's market thread if it's on topic. That's far from prohibiting her from posting.
The thread was at risk of becoming about Nancy rather than about the prospect of two farmer's markets on the same day.
Regarding guidelines, she has been disrpectful both in the past and more recently. There have been public compaints posted and I have recieved many more privately. I have banned her the past and I may well ban her in the future, but I am doing my best at encouraging to moderate her tone and allowing for her still strident voice to be included here in a more compatable manner.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by seanpfister:
I know that Wildflower's post was ALSO posted on the original thread and moved here. What about you Sean?!
Barry, while I'm flattered that you think enough of me to give me my very own thread, it really appears as though this is an attempt to put me, my POV on the Seb. market situation, my defense of my right to defend my position, correct misinformation, respond to direct questions, and any SUPPORT I may garner "out of sight, out of mind." While flattered, I don't give a darn tootin' about this thread and my guess is nobody else does either (if there's anyone out there who does- no disrespect, just can't understand why you would). Frankly, I find it kind of sad that you're... well.... that this is how you "moderate."
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:
The following article is by a former board member of the Sebastopol Farm Market and appeared in today's Sonoma West Times. I think some VERY good points are made here from one of SFM's very own.
https://www.sonomawest.com/sonoma_we...r-comment-area
‘Progressives’ afraid of progress?
Posted: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 2:27 pm
by Andrea Cullinen
The recent guest commentary written by the Sebastopol Farmers Market (SFM) Board titled “Setting the Record Straight” (April 25) should cause the reader to ask some important questions about the larger goals that Sebastopol has as a community.
Before this May 14 Planning Commission meeting is to occur, I would like to offer a few questions for us all to consider so that we don’t waste any more of our elected officials time than is necessary when really we should be able to work together.
In citing reasons why the SFM will not work with the Barlow to have a unified market in one location, the board states that the Barlow requested that the SFM change their management team, and governance structure.
Why would the Barlow make such “unreasonable and unrealistic demands” of the SFM in order for them to move their location to the Barlow property? The termination of the original agreement to have the SFM move to the Barlow is also referenced in the Dec. 6 Sonoma West edition (“Changes in farmers market on tap at the Barlow”) that stated: “due to past legal issues Downing (the current market manager) has faced regarding the markets in Santa Rosa and Sebastopol, the Barlow will be seeking a ‘fresh start.’”
Has the SFM Board already forgotten about these “past legal issues?” The Dec. 6 article reported that Downing brought a lawsuit upon their market by choosing to terminate Gleason Ranch’s membership in the two farm markets that she manages as an act of retaliation because Gleason Ranch criticized her management.
Gleason Ranch, the Bodega family farm that had been ranching since 1863, estimated that the loss of income resulting from their inability to sell at the two markets was $100,000 per year, according previous reports in Santa Rosa’s daily newspaper. Despite the settlement, Gleason Ranch is now out of business, but Downing is still the manager of the SFM.
Most businesses would replace a manager who subjects the business to a lawsuit. Did the “farmer-run” board of the SFM really allow their manager to force a locally owned farm out of business and subject the market to a lawsuit? What is the governance structure of the SFM? Is it really the “farmer-run” board of vendors listed at the end of the guest commentary that they submitted?
According to the bylaws for the SFM posted on the Sonoma County Agricultural Commissioner’s website, it is actually run by the Sonoma County Certified Farmers’ Market Association. They aren’t the same people. Who is in charge here?
Sebastopol has been in the spotlight recently. We should take the time to think critically about the calls to action that we make of our community and the way in which we utilize the time of our elected officials. Implying that it will be developers who will run the farmer’s market that the Barlow is applying for a permit for is misinformation. What are the legal business entities that a certified farmer’s market can operate under? “Non-profit” is not synonymous with “non-corrupt.” If the Barlow can put together a democratically run farmer’s market, certified for business by the Agricultural Commissioner, what legal right does the Planning Commission, or City Council have to deny them the permit?
By choosing not to continue negotiations with the Barlow to resolve this, the Sebastopol Farmers Market is dividing our community. Furthermore, if the Planning Commission approves the Barlow’s application, the result of this choice will force the current vendors to decide which farmers market is more profitable to participate in.
The dictionary.com definition of “progressive” is: “favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters.”
Refusing to engage in the exercise of reevaluating a management team and governance structure for the sake of preserving a “35-plus-year-old” system is not progressive. It is also a terrible business strategy.
Andrea Cullinen is a former board member of the Sebastopol Farmers Market.
© 2013 Sonoma West Publishers . All rights reserved.
It happens to be not true that the Gleason Ranch folks were terminated from the markets in an act of retaliation. The termination was a decision by the Board, not by Paula, and the reasons were many and varied. Nancy knows this. It is to Paula and the Board's credit that these reasons have not been slung around during this miserable struggle.
It happens to be not true that the Gleason Ranch folks were terminated from the markets in an act of retaliation. The termination was a decision by the Board, not by Paula, and the reasons were many and varied. Nancy knows this. It is to Paula and the Board's credit that these reasons have not been slung around during this miserable struggle.
Boycott downing!!!boycott downing!!!boycott downing!!!Not the Farmers Market(is what I got out of reading the Sonoma West article)
What could you possibly know about what "happens to be/not be TRUE?!" Unlike Andrea Cullinen, you weren't part of anything that happened when it actually happened. Andrea was ON THAT BOARD. My god! You make me LOL :-) You only know what you've been told. You are hardly qualified to set any record straight here. I must say, your self-appointed authority and sense of self in this situation is amusing. A member of Slow Food Russian River does not an authority make, my friend. I've never even met you lady... how can you possibly claim to know what I know?! OMG...:-D!
(Furthermore, Ms. Shatkin, this is not the appropriate place to attack me if that's what you want to do. Barry created a whole other thread for that called "Nancy and the Sebastopol Farmers Market." Barry, would you be so kind to remove this AND Ms. Shatkin's post to the APPROPRIATE thread. Remember, this thread is not suppose to be about Nancy, it's a place to discuss the Sebastopol Farm Market!)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
look, who else was on the board? i don't mean to dismiss you nancy, but, we are most trying to understand the whole story. the management structure of the plaza market, i trust your info, and they're a number of local farms who signed the sfm letter to the city. there is the everyweek policy, and the bottom line. i know i am trying to figure out what is going on and who to support. you seem to think i should know already. not there yet. all i know is my experience, what i hear from vendors, and what i read here. i am just a local, who buys a few things now and then, and mostly appreciates the scene, which is about family and friends, and seems to support small farms.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Rossman, thank you for your post.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
1) Please educate yourself on the Direct Marketing Act, signed by Congress in 1976. This was the result of farmers uniting to demand exemption from sales regulations if they themselves sold directly to the consumer at a centralized place of commerce. THIS was the birth of Certified Farmers Markets across the country. Farmers markets are not a "scene mostly about family and friends that also seems to support small farms." It is a place of commerce- first and foremost. Period. The scene is only as valuable as it supports commerce, not the other way around. This is something Sebastopolians, and in particular, Waccos, seem to have trouble grasping.
2) The people who sat on what THEY THOUGHT was the "Sebastopol Farm Market Board of Directors in 2010 were:
Steve Howard, Rhonda Stubbs, Deb Morris, Cliff Silva, Robin, Andrea Cullinen, Maya Dincin, Carleen Weirauch, and Neil (owner of "Run Around Brew"... Who, BTW, left the anonymous death threat to another vendor which I have already posted verbatum in an early post, I believe of the previous thread. He admitted to doing so, and suffered no repercussions.) Steve Howard and Cliff Silva are currently still on this so called "Board of Directors." (So yes, Paula Shatkin in talking out her whoo-hoo.)
The REAL Board of Directors of the REAL legal Board of Directors were Paula Downing, Hilda Swartz, and Erica Burns-Gorman, the three market managers of Sonoma, Santa Rosa, Oakmont, Petaluma, and Sebastopol. They represent the REAL LEGAL governing organization that oversees and operates all the aforementioned markets, with the exception of SR, called Sonoma County Certified Farmers Market Association.
If in fact the supposed board of the supposed "Sebastopol Farm Market" were legitimate, then they would have been embroiled in the litigation. They were untouched because they had no significance.
3) When we decided to pursue litigation, we had to find out who to sue. Every non-profit for mutual benefit is registered with the California Secretary of State in order to exist. "Sebastopol Farm Market" DID NOT EXIST! Every certified farm market in Sonoma County must be registered with the Sonoma County Ag Commissioner and their organization's Rules and Regulations and Bylaws are listed on the Commissioner's website. Go there now. Scroll down to Sebastopol Farm Market. Click on "Rules and Regulations," highlighted in blue. Scroll past the first few pages of the Rules and Regulations (which have no legal standing as far as identifying the organization, and get to the Bylaws- who do you see? Sonoma County Certified Farmers Market Association. So now we go to the Sonoma County Clerk to see if the latter has registered the former as a legitimate DBA? Answer: nope. Now let's go to the Sebastopol Planning Commission and see who holds the current Use Permit in the Plaza; most recent amendment was in 1997, signed by Paula Downing on behalf of Sebastopol Farm Market. Now let's go BACK to the Secretary of State's website and do a corporation search for Sonoma County Certified Farm Market. There it is, registered by Erica Burns-Gorman in 2007. If the Use Permit, last signed in 1997, was issued to Sebastopol Farm Market didn't actually exist, then who's been at the Plaza? Answer: Sonoma County Certified Farmers Market Association... ILEGALLY!
Now let's do a search on the Secretary of State's website for Sebastopol Farm Market. Why, THERE IT IS! Registered April 2011 by.... Cindy Holland. WHAAAT?! THAT'S NANCY'S SISTER!! SEE THOSE AWEFUL GLEASON GIRLS ARE TRYING TO TAKE OVER THE MARKET!! HA-SEE!!
Slow your roll there! First, ask yourself, if Sebastopol Farm Market was a legitimate 35- year old organization, 100% vendor owned and operated, as recently stated in the Sonoma West oped "Setting The Record Straight," then how could ANYONE register the name as a non-profit in the state of California?!
Cindy registered the organization for one reason and one reason only. It was a cheap way to prevent Paula from backtracking, claiming it was just a "confusion in paperwork" or "oversight." It was a cheap easy way to demonstrate that since 2007, these three market managers got together to give themselves ultimate job security and oversight.
Now go back and carefully read those Bylaws of the Sonoma County Certified Farmers Market Association on the Ag Commissioner's website. Not only will you see that the "initial" three board members remain on the board indefinitely until such time as they decide to replace themselves, they are also charged with setting the rules and regulations for the markets they oversee and operate. They also get to enjoy employment contracts for the markets they oversee. They also get to pay themselves for their service as directors and officers of the non-profit organization. Oh, and you will also see, in plain script, that it is NOT a member-based organization.
Meanwhile, farms like Gleason Ranch, Felton Acres, French Garden, Bloomfield Bees, Neufeld Farms, Skyview Nursery... the list is long, are all prevent access to the free market allowed us under the Direct Marketing Act of 1976, access farmers fought for us to have, at the hands of middle-management, under the auspices of "a delicate balance of product," when the real reason is- WE KNOW THE TRUTH.
How do more people, especially the vendors not know this??! Now is the time to read those articles I aleardy provided:
https://news.sonomaportal.com/2010/1...s-market-saga/
https://news.sonomaportal.com/2010/1...otten-produce/
4) What to do with all this information? You ask the planning commission to support the Barlow Farmers Market, just as Paula supported it before she got called on the carpet through litigation. That way, Paula won't run the market, the Gleason Girls (currently the REAL LEGALLY REGISTERED SEBASTOPOL FARM MARKET) won't run the market. I can freely shop for groceries on Sundays, and the whole community can get along.
5) And last but not least, here is a copy of the letter Andrea Cullinen has sent to the Seb. City Council and Planning Commission. You can either believe what Paula Shatkin SAYS (based on what, other than heresay, I have no idea), or you can read from those who were actually IN THE ROOM and THOUGHT they had AUTHORITY. You can believe Marty Roberts when she says Seb. had nothing to do with the litigation, or you can believe information on government agency websites. You can read propaganda hands to you at the market, or you can read up on what's happened to others in the past in Sonoma, put some pieces together, and realize... this is history repeating itself.
Ask me more, I have nothing to hide. But at the VERY LEAST, do some of your own research.... Like I've said all along, it's ALL public information. Just know, you'll quickly be on the "outs" once you figure it out, assuming you have nothing to hide either. With everything that has been said about me (bully, toxic, poison, vitriolic, full of hate....blahblahblah), I welcome you to punch holes in ANYTHING I have presented here. The one thing I am not- a LIAR. (I'm also not an idiot.)
February 19, 2013
Dear City Council Members and Planning Commission,
In December, the Sonoma West Times and News reported that the developers of the Barlow project will “seek an alternative to the plan to have Paula Downing manage a proposed farmer’s market at their location.” The article stated that this decision “was made due to past legal issues Downing has faced regarding the markets in Santa Rosa and Sebastopol, and the Barlow will be seeking a ‘fresh start.’” There was also a discussion about whether this additional market would beneficial to the community.
As a resident, homeowner, and business owner here in the city of Sebastopol, I think that there should only be one farmers market, and that it should be at the Barlow, and I would like to explain why.
From 2007 until 2011, I worked for Taylor Maid Farms at the Sebastopol Farm Market. Every Sunday from April Fool’s Day until Thanksgiving I would be there, and in 2010 I was invited to join the Board of Directors. This was the year that the market started to discuss moving to a new location.
While the square may be the heart of our downtown, it’s size, the lack of adequate restroom facilities, and the hazardous pedestrian access puts serious limitations on the ability for the market to be a fair representation of all of the farmers and artisans in the local area. Because of this, the majority of the vendors of the Sebastopol Farmer’s Market voted that they would like to move to the Barlow following an initial presentation by Barney Aldridge. Reading in the paper that all of these vendors who voted that they would like to move may not get to because of Paula’s legal issues angers me.
The last board meeting that I attended before I left Taylor Maid (and the board since I couldn’t remain on the board as a non-vendor) was right when the legal battle between she and Gleason Ranch was starting, March 2011. This was the first meeting of the year and one month before opening day of the market. In the agenda we received for that meeting there was a heading that said “Problem Children” and listed “Gleason Ranch,” “Sebastopol Berry Farm” and “Skyview Nursery” underneath it. When we got to that topic, Paula informed the board that she had sent those three vendors letters stating that the board was reviewing their memberships and would make a decision on whether or not to send them an application for that season. This was the first any of us had heard of any problems with these three vendors and so we asked why. She said that those three vendors had stirred up “drama” at the Santa Rosa Farm Market and that she would like to avoid such drama in the Sebastopol market. She also told us that Gleason Ranch was particularly troublesome because they had sent her a “threatening” letter in response to her letter. In the discussion that followed, all present at the meeting agreed that if no rules had been broken by these vendors within the Sebastopol market, they should be allowed to continue their memberships. It was agreed that membership packets would be mailed to Skyview Nursery and Sebastopol Berry Farm, but that Paula would seek legal advice regarding the letter from Gleason Ranch. The board also requested that Paula email a copy of the “threatening” letter for us all to review before the next meeting.
I read the letter. It was from a lawyer on behalf of Gleason Ranch and was a short and direct request for a copy of the farm market bylaws and copies of meeting minutes. There was nothing threatening about it.
From what I understand, the legal battle escalated due to Paula’s inaction and stubbornness. The whole mess could have been avoided had she either sent a copy of the bylaws and minutes and an explanation of the rules that Gleason Ranch had broken leading to the termination of their membership, or a membership packet. I don’t know how the board advised her from there, but I don’t imagine any one of them would have risked their own membership to stand up to her. I would like to believe that had I been allowed to remain on the board as a community member, and not a vendor who risked loosing my livelihood, that I would have spoken out and tried to prevent what has turned into a problem that could force farmers and vendors to choose which market to participate in.
Sebastopol should have one farmers market. It should be held in a place large enough to include more of our local farmers and safely accessible by the public. It should be democratically run by a board representative of farmers and members of our community. It should be a microcosm of the progressive community that we all strive to be a part of.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Andrea Cullinen
Come on Barry, this is BS!!!! This was a response, posted on the other thread, to Rossman's post, also on the other thread, and you put it here where nobody gives a crap as a means of hiding the information. Meanwhile, you leave Paula Shatkin's lies about me on the other post. Seriously BS!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
The Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow???? thread is just for the question of where the farm market should be.
Issues regarding the history of the management and legal concerns will be on this thread (which I have moved from WaccoTalk to General Community).
If you are not interested in this aspect you may want to usubsubscribe from this thread.
Barry, I want you to remove this load of crap. I've substantiated that Paula Shatkin is talking out her better half (and I don't mean her face). If you manipulate this thread so that no one sees the truth I've spoken, truth that has everything to do with the market, nothing to do with me, then I am going to demand that you remove this post by Paula Shatkin. I can tolerate the lies and name-calling, but i will not tolerate you manipulating the truth; truth i have substantiated. Otherwise, I will be coming after BOTH of you for libel, because this post IS, by definition, just that. OR... put Rossman's and my posts back on this thread where they originated and where they belong.
Your choice.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by applefan:
this is one of your posts which makes your point really well. yeah the sfm board is a collection of paula whipped farmers who are happy to stay part of a lucrative scene. they serve at her will. you have suffered serious repercussions for challenging this autocratic structure and its fake front. the barlow is an opportunity to return the farmers market to the farmers. and you have been proven in a legal process, which might have gone a lot further if you had the resources and time to continue it.
it is sad for me to understand all this, and that is the price of endless curiosity. i have also been hurt by unfair and dishonest people and institutions in my business in the world. i am often faced with the choice of either eating it or fighting to hopefully make the world a better place. the best business choice is usually to just move on, but that does nothing for the pain of being screwed.
on wacco you have looked for support and understanding, and mostly found resistance and support for the existing setup. ouch. hopefully you can also see the community's love and support for farmers markets. yet to see this and know that many of sonoma county farmers markets are held hostage by a shakedown crew of long established gangsters? i hope you know your own power and that your efforts are catalyzing change. making the world a better place is a slow and difficult process. thank you for doing it : )
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Then delete Shatkin's lie from the other thread!!!!! It has NOTHING to do with where to put the damn market!!! You're walkin' on this ice with your hypocracy.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Nancy, I have moved several posts, starting with your repost of the Andrea's letter and subsequent replies to that to this thread.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Ross, I suggest you review the entirety of the "Sebastopol Farm Market in the Plaza or at the Barlow?" thread before making up your mind.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
The simple logistics of the market is that more vendors want to be there than there is room for, thanks to Paula's efforts to build a very successful market. So some vendors will be turned away. Nobody like be told no, but some people handle it better and some people like make a big fuss.
And since history is welcome on this thread, I don't think the original conflicts between Nancy and the Paula/SFM as come out yet. Anybody?
Barry, Mr. "Full-Disclosure,"- would you like to tell everyone how much revenue you enjoy as a result of SFm's advertising on your website, and what percentage that revenue is of your overall generated revenue? Seems to me (as I've been saying all along), you too have some skin in this game, just like Michelle Anna Jordan does. Shall we start a thread called "Barry and the Farm Market?"
Please, Barry... do tell.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
i have followed the thread closely because i am interested in many aspects of it. nancy has been an important contributor and shared a lot of info, though her attitude grates sometimes... my working metaphor of the moment is the godfather movies. are we witnessing the evolution of farmers markets from an autocratic protectionist model to a example of deep democracy? has the sonoma county farmers market scene outgrown paula and crew, a classic example of founders syndrome? i deeply care about the alternative culture to corporate megafarms and nurturance of local sustainable diverse agriculture i experience as embodied in the plaza market. and i just enjoy being there and hanging out with my dog, children,and seeing lots of friends. i really do trust that all involved come with good intention and the vendors and organizers work hard in right livelihood serving community. i appreciate all this discussion which you host and moderate. i am glad there is currently dialog between sfm and the barlow and i hope for an outcome that works for all.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
Amen.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
You've avoided answer my questions a second time, Nancy.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
But I'll answer yours, but first I want to comment on Andrea's letter:
Any letter that is sent by a lawyer is threatening by on the face of it because it is sent by a lawyer.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Andrea Cullinen via Nancy M Prebilich:
I also want to point out that Paula has legal restraints on her only because you decided to sue her.
On to my full-disclosure:
The actual amount of my annual deal with the Sebastopol Farmer's Market is confidential. I gave them a very good deal and it amounts to less than 2% of my revenue.
I suppose you could say that represents some skin in the game. But if I wanted to protect them, I would have cut you off long ago, Nancy, while you were still using your sock puppets.
The much large skin I have in this game is to maintain an orderly and respectful place for public discussion.
I do reserve the right to have my own opinions that I voice here with the same visibility and contraints as any other user.
I've answered your question, Nancy, so kindly answer mine:
1) What were the original issues that caused you to come into conflict with Paula?
2) Why are you so passionate about this?
sicko thread
god forbid I would ever shop there again
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Nancy M Prebilich:
Yes, Tommy.. it is a very sicko thread, but PLEASE do not even consider avoiding the Farmer's Market, no matter where it ends up, because of these sad politics. Remember, we are here to support conscious community, and that means supporting the good people who are vendors selling their honest farm produce, crafts and foods. PLEASE.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by tommy:
[I moved this post from the new Letter from the Barlow thread - Barry]
Now, why in the world is this a new thread?! Barry, you sure are doing your best at diluting this conversation, what with the original thread, then "Nancy and the Farmers Market" thread, now this!?
And I haven't forgotten your questions posed. I've been contemplating my response.... How to put it in terms you'll understand. It's coming.
Hi Barry,
These two lines below are presented as if they are fact. But, I read them as assumptions/personal perceptions.
Why would I assume (as suggested below) that any letter sent by a lawyer is automatically threatening?
Regarding legal restraints - If I were to assume anything, it would be that legal restraints were decided upon either by a judge or by involved parties through binding arbitration. There are usually significant reasons for such restraints.
Unless I go and read the documents defining these restraints, the reasons for them, and who made the decision, I will stick with my original assumption.
It seems (from this post and a couple others) as if you are suggesting that people should support Paula and not Nancy. If that is your opinion it would be easier if you made that disclosure up front, so we know where you stand. Otherwise we might be thinking you are here as a neutral moderator and be confused by your insertions of opinion.
Thanks for hosting. This has become an interesting series of threads.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E2VCwBzGdPM#
Thank Joseph!! I just love Louis' rendition of this song! Isn't the world, indeed, with all it's different personalities, just.....well....WONDER-FUL?! 😚😜
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Joseph Askren: