Gloves (and jacket) comes off at 5th District Supervisor's debate in Graton

I went to the debate last night for 5th District Supervisor in Graton with Efren Carillo, Ernie Carpenter and Veronica Jacobi. It was won of the more "spirited" debates I've seen. Here's some juicy parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F22j4-Smt4A

In addition to Preservation Ranch, they aslo covered medical marijuana (Efren supports current system and concerned by illegal grows, Ernie and Veronica support decriminalization) and fluoride in the water supply (Efren leaning toward supporting it, Ernie and Veronica opposed).

Anybody else there care to comment, along with the rest of you hoi-polloi?

I'll post the PD article too.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/images/logo2.gif
Carrillo, Carpenter wrangle over Preservation Ranch
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/articl...p=all&tc=pgall

The three candidates for the 5th District seat on the Sonoma County Board of Supervisors debated Wednesday night: They are, left to right, Efren Carrillo, Ernie Carpenter and Veronica Jacobi.

CRISTA JEREMIASON/The Press Democrat
By MARTIN ESPINOZA
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT
Published: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 at 8:59 p.m.

https://www.pressdemocrat.com/apps/p...W=445&border=0

Sonoma County Supervisor Efren Carrillo and former Supervisor Ernie Carpenter traded sharp jabs Wednesday night over a controversial timber-to-vineyard conversion project that is sure to become a key election issue in the race for the 5th District supervisorial seat.

The issue - and the intensity of the exchanges in a bid to win environmental votes in the west county district - took center stage in a candidates’ forum in Graton that included former Santa Rosa City Councilwoman Veronica Jacobi.

Carrillo accused Carpenter of being a paid lobbyist for what he characterized as an early incarnation of the Preservation Ranch project, a forest-to-vineyard conversion proposal on 20,000 acres outside of Annapolis.

“Make no question about it. Mr. Carpenter was hired as a lobbyist by a vineyard developer,” said Carrillo, adding that he objected to questions about the issue coming from “The father of Preservation Ranch.”

Carpenter repeatedly called Carrillo’s claim a “prevarication,” pointing out that the consulting work he did in the late 1990s was not tied to Preservation Ranch, but rather to 80,000 acres of coastal forestlands.

“I never worked on Preservation Ranch. I worked on the coastal forestlands project of 80,000 acres of which now 40, 000 are owned by the Nature Conservancy and the other 20,000 are put into a bank for carbon mitigation,” he said.

“If he wants to call me a lobbyist that’s fine, I’ll call him the father of asphalt plants in biotic areas,” Carpenter said, referring to Carrillo’s key vote approving the Dutra Materials asphalt plant south of Petaluma.

Carpenter repeatedly said he was opposed to Preservation Ranch and directly asked Carrillo to state his position.

Carrillo, who refused to say how he would vote, insisted that taking a position on Preservation Ranch prior to the completion of the state environmental review process would be “irresponsible” given the “quasi-judicial” role of the Board of Supervisors in the process.

The barrage of attacks between Carpenter and Carrillo dominated the first part of the forum at the Graton Community Building hosted by the Sonoma County League of Women Voters and the American Association of University Women.

Jacobi, who served one term on the Santa Rosa Council, tried to stay clear of the back and forth, while saying she opposed such timber-to-vineyard conversions such as Preservation Ranch.

After the first hour of debate, candidates were asked questions that ranged from what would do to create jobs and stabilize the economy to whether they supported medical marijuana.

Carrillo said that while he supported the use of medical marijuana, illegal growing operations were becoming a major safety and environmental degradation issue.

On creating jobs, Jacobi suggested focusing on turning the county into an incubator for green jobs. She also said she supported the union-backed “living wage,” as did the other candidates.

“When the conditions are right everybody can pay a living wage,” she said.

The candidates agreed on a number of issues, including the need to focus on local farming and bridging the gap between longtime traditional farmers and the county’s new breed of farmers.

Carpenter said that fostering the creation of “direct markets to consumers will help local growers.”

Carpenter, who left the board 16 years ago, jumped into the race the day before the March 9 filing deadline. His said he was running because Carrillo's record on land-use issues troubled him and that he felt he had the best chance to beat Carrillo.

In the debate, Carrillo defended his environmental record and said he was a strong supporter of preserving open space as well as creating parks for the county’s low income communities.

The League of Women Voters is hosting other debates among candidates for supervisorial races.

Today, candidates for the 1st District seat will square off at 7:30 p.m. at the Sonoma Community Center.

Candidates for the 3rd district race will debate each other during a forum at 6 p.m. on May 2 at Rohnert Park City Hall.

Since Efren is unable to clarify his relationship with the big corporate wineries that own 80% of the vineyards in Sonoma County, let me try to do so. He loves them. He worships the ground they walk on. He kisses their feet. They say jump, he says how high.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion concerning Supervisor Chainsaw Carrillo’s “quasi-position” on Preservation Ranch.

I have seen Effren Carrillo creaping around sucking up to people and local businesses here in Bodega Bay for too long now.Feeding good people with lies and false hope and alot of people believe him which is very sad. He's a liar ! He even appeared at a local benefit for a family who lost their mother from cancer,which was pretty sleazy of him. He brought a cameraman to take a "promo" photo putting a paper plate into a trash bag ,making it look like he was helping out . Ernie ,please get out here to Bodega Bay and show folks how a real man works with politics so we can get rid of this scam artist Carrillo! Ernie lets have a town hall meeting at the Grange Hall here-we need you!

I think this is an exaggeration of Efren's position. In my opinion, exaggerations serve to enflame, justify, and convince others, of a weak position. A statement that "Efren supports local business interests" might be closer to the truth. The truth supports a dialog, exaggerations only build fences higher.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thomas Morabito:

Since Efren is unable to clarify his relationship with the big corporate wineries that own 80% of the vineyards in Sonoma County, let me try to do so. He loves them. He worships the ground they walk on. He kisses their feet. They say jump, he says how high.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion concerning Supervisor Chainsaw Carrillo’s “quasi-position” on Preservation Ranch.

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Efren Carrillo is not only a friend to corporate wineries but a big buddy to large business, he is corrupt as the day is long. We need to remove him from office now, don't give him another four years to distroy our lands.

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Posted in reply to the post by Thomas Morabito:

Since Efren is unable to clarify his relationship with the big corporate wineries that own 80% of the vineyards in Sonoma County, let me try to do so. He loves them. He worships the ground they walk on. He kisses their feet. They say jump, he says how high.

Hopefully this clears up any confusion concerning Supervisor Chainsaw Carrillo’s “quasi-position” on Preservation Ranch.

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Many years ago, my husband and I reached out to Ernie Carpenter for help with a neighbor who wasn't zoned properly for commercial purposes. He cut through to the source of the problem and supported us and other residential neighbors, putting an end to our difficulties. We found him to be as solid as they come. His word is gold, he can be trusted which is rare in this day and age. He's got our vote because I know he will keep his word and do what he proposes to do, unlike Carillo.

efren does run as an environmentalist, although nobody believes him... he is a natural politician, defined as being very good at saying appealing things with little promise or meaning. like when he says taking a position on preservation rip would be irresponsible because of the quasijudicial role of the board of supervisors, total bs. he's a politician and refusing to take a stand on a big issue within his district just means he is afraid to be truthful because it might negativly affect his reelection chances or fundraising efforts. so he resorts to negative and factually false attacks on his opponent. he is very clever at this.

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Posted in reply to the post by themis:

I'm in agreement with what you have to say, dominus, but I do want to say that Efren didn't run as an environmentalist. I didn't vote for him - my vote was for Rue. I didn't expect Efren to satisfy my enviro bent but I haven't experienced him not doing what he said he'd do. Could you be specific?

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

I think this is an exaggeration of Efren's position. In my opinion, exaggerations serve to enflame, justify, and convince others, of a weak position. A statement that "Efren supports local business interests" might be closer to the truth. The truth supports a dialog, exaggerations only build fences higher.

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though when it's as hyperbolic as this, it's pretty clear it's an expression of opinion. Characature is a legit form of argument, I think. This adds color, if not substance, to the discussion.

Ernie Carpenter IS coming to the coast, for two meetings. One is in Jenner on Thursday, May 10 from 5 to 7:30 at the Jenner Community Center, behind the gas station. The other is at Fort Ross School the following night, same time. Please come, and let people know!! I will also post the flyer in Events.

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Posted in reply to the post by mamaj:

I have seen Effren Carrillo creaping around sucking up to people and local businesses here in Bodega Bay for too long now.Feeding good people with lies and false hope and alot of people believe him which is very sad. He's a liar ! He even appeared at a local benefit for a family who lost their mother from cancer,which was pretty sleazy of him. He brought a cameraman to take a "promo" photo putting a paper plate into a trash bag ,making it look like he was helping out . Ernie ,please get out here to Bodega Bay and show folks how a real man works with politics so we can get rid of this scam artist Carrillo! Ernie lets have a town hall meeting at the Grange Hall here-we need you!

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Am I the only one who thinks Ernie came off as a borish bully at the Graton event? Standing up to take off his coat and rolling up his sleeves as Efren was speaking, cutting off Effren when he was using his time to speak... While it adds to the drama and entertainment, it lacked respect for the entire debate process as well as for the office this man currently holds.

You can have whatever opinion you want of Supervisor Carrillo, but he was respectful of the other speakers time, attempted to answer in detail one of his biggest criticisms (Dutra) during his time in office.

I'll just add, there is no knight in shining armor when it comes to politics. They all try to put on the face you want to see - it's fine tuning which is the least of two evils most of the time.

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Posted in reply to the post by Sebtown1968:

cutting off Effren when he was using his time to speak... .

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This was a lively debate. I believe there were times that Efren interrupted Ernie as well. I think both candidates were both frisky and respectful throughout the debate, with much laughter!

If you listen to what Carrillo is saying before Carpenter stands up and does his taking off his jacket and rolling up his sleeves act, it's pretty clear why he did it. And given the way Carrillo was slandering Carpenter, I'd say Carpenter's response was a pretty mild one.

For the record, Carrillo ran as an environmentalist. Albeit with less of a record than his opponent. But he made all the appropriate enviro noises, even though it was constantly pointed out during the campaign where his money was coming from. His subsequent record as a Sup, has pretty much born out the concerns about what and who he is loyal to. And it isn't Environmental protection, in spite of the posturing he engages in to try and say different.

Carpenter has a good record, but it is from before my time as a resident in the county. I was only visiting twice a year from '89-'97. Although, I recall from those visits and my reading of the PD and Sonoma West Times & News that he gave a good impression.

His recent role in our effort to bring our concerns about racial profiling by the Sebastopol Police Department, was not so great. He seemed to be playing both/all sides and his role was not productive for those of us trying to get a clear response from Chief Weaver and the City Council. They're still stonewalling us.

That said, I still hope Carpenter wins. When comparing their records, I see him as the better candidate. By far.

I can't prove it definitively, but it's pretty clear from the results and the patterns, that the current array of Sups are engaged in vote trading when it comes to controversial issues. Particularly those involving the environment.

Whatever is odious seems to always pass by 3-2, but on symbolic or preliminary stuff, there are often votes of 4-1 or 5-0. In favor of environmental protection.

On the same issues that, when it comes to the crunch, the pro-development side seems to always win by one vote. And that one vote seems to move around between the three solid pro-business Sups. It's got to be more than a coincidence.

I drove from Forestville to Hog Island in Marshall via Valley Ford and Tomales, and back, on Sunday afternoon. Based on sign placement, I'd say Carpenter and Solomon had better, "get on the stick". I saw far more Huffman and Carrillo signs.

I noted that Norm was speaking that evening in... Valley Ford? (Can't quite recall, which little burgh it was.)

Absolutely! I don't have time to watch it again, but I thought Ernie's mime-response to Carillo's attacks was the best and funniest response I've seen in any political debate lately (and there've been a LOT of them!).

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

This was a lively debate. I believe there were times that Efren interrupted Ernie as well. I think both candidates were both frisky and respectful throughout the debate, with much laughter!

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GREAT video...Thank YOU!

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

I went to the debate last night for 5th District Supervisor in Graton with Efren Carillo, Ernie Carpenter and Veronica Jacobi. It was won of the more "spirited" debates I've seen. Here's some juicy parts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F22j4-Smt4A

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If Efren supports putting flouride (and industrial waste in the form it is used) into our water supply, we need to get him off the Board of Supervisors!

It is not a qustion of IF; I was at the BOS meeting when Efren gave fluoride in our drinking water his endorsement.

They all did. We need Shirley Zane off as well; Tim Smith is running.

Gina is a possible recipient of my endorsement for the1st district, when I get time to vet her.

This is a very important issue for the candidates to take a stand on. Please tell them it is a deal breaker if they want your vote.

Thanks,

Colleen Fernald
www.campaignforpeace.org

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Posted in reply to the post by Abraham Entin:

If Efren supports putting flouride (and industrial waste in the form it is used) into our water supply, we need to get him off the Board of Supervisors!

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If and When, we need to replace all the Supervisors really soon, McGuire, Rabbitt, Carrillo, and Zane are not suitable for the job.

Its not just the 5th district. We need to clean house statewide and nationally. If we don't do something soon ..... They will be fracking in your back yard. Drilling in your favorite fishing hole and selling your future to the highest bidder. It wont be just fluoride in your water.

You are quite right. Water security; quantity and quality, is at stake.

With Supervisors like Efren, willing to drink the toxic cool aide, and looking for our tax, and ratepayer dollars to fund the poisons, as well as, promote the spoiling of our watersheds, for the corp. ag profiteers, who want to export our water, via fermented grapes; one bottle at a time; never to recharge, and replenish the source; while the chemicals used in growing these wine grapes, and sediment run-off from bad land use practices; is a huge risk to more than just 3 endangered species of fish. Factory farmed fish, fed GMO food, is no replacement for natural, native species.

:waccosun: This problem is not limited to the 5th District. Please support my effort to create thriving watersheds for all.

Much thanks,

Colleen Fernald

California's Constitutional Candidate for PEACE!
UNITED States Senate 2012
www.campaignforpeace.org

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Posted in reply to the post by Attic:

Its not just the 5th district. We need to clean house statewide and nationally. If we don't do something soon ..... They will be fracking in your back yard. Drilling in your favorite fishing hole and selling your future to the highest bidder. It wont be just fluoride in your water.

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Talk about rude behavior, go out and observe for yourself Carrillos' behavior while your pleading to save your home and community. I did just that on April 17, 2012, he was distracted throughout the hearing while playing with his lap- top. During the hearing he and the entire board voted for big business against me and my neighbors trying to save our community.
If that's not rude, please let me know what rude is?

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Posted in reply to the post by Sebtown1968:

Am I the only one who thinks Ernie came off as a borish bully at the Graton event? Standing up to take off his coat and rolling up his sleeves as Efren was speaking, cutting off Effren when he was using his time to speak... While it adds to the drama and entertainment, it lacked respect for the entire debate process as well as for the office this man currently holds.

You can have whatever opinion you want of Supervisor Carrillo, but he was respectful of the other speakers time, attempted to answer in detail one of his biggest criticisms (Dutra) during his time in office.

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Please see Efren's complete disregard for the 99%, in person at the BOS meetings. He is so addicted to his iPAD, he keeps busy with it during 90% of the public speakers time at the mic.

When I called him out on this 2 times; he interrupted my speaking time defend himself. He is a boy; working for lots of sick men; and a few unwise women.

I like Veronica; but although she did help a lot more than others at first; she turned her back on my need for justice recently, regarding my daughter Charlotte. She is far from the only one. If she had taken a stand; Charlotte's life may have been saved. Veronica knew about much of the crimes and misconduct which put Charlotte at risk.

Now it's up to Ernie to prove to me, he's got the backbone to rid this county of the criminals running it. All 3 districts need fearless leaders, who think for themselves, and work for the balanced best interest of all constituents.

Ernie, being overdue for our meeting for justice, and to earn my endorsement; has cost me my child's life. This is my fault for not making it happen sooner. Even though nothing can bring her back; it remains urgent that justice is served.

Please get in touch soon.

Thanks,

Colleen Fernald

www.campaignforpeace.org

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Posted in reply to the post by Beverly Schenck:

Talk about rude behavior, go out and observe for yourself Carrillos' behavior while your pleading to save your home and community. I did just that on April 17, 2012, he was distracted throughout the hearing while playing with his lap- top. During the hearing he and the entire board voted for big business against me and my neighbors trying to save our community.
If that's not rude, please let me know what rude is?

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