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Has anyone else received this lovely long Census type survey called the American Community Survey? I just got it and it is long and asks very pointed questions re: income and even what time do I leave for work? It is kind of scary and weird and on the envelope it says "Your response is required by Law" how can that be? any thoughts on this? It is very official. Please respond publicly or privately if you have any guidance about this.
Thank you, :hmmm:
Maya
Yes, I received it too and threw it in the recycling bin. Another came a week later. That one went in the bin too. They wanted to know what toothpaste I use (Ok, I'm exaggerating but you get the point). My knowledge of the law on the Census from a friend who is a long time census worker, is you are only truly required to say how many people live at your residence. That's it. Not your name, not anything else. That was the census that happened in 2010 when they marked the GPS location of each front door for the first time....talk about scary. That means they can use satellites or drones or whatever to electronically zap the occupants if they aren't "good Germans."
"Your response is required by law" is dubious and likely not true. In any case it is unconstitutional and I would ignore it.
I'm curious mayaprana, I refused to fill out the census form in 2010 except to say the number of occupants. They sent a census worker who finally gave up. Did you fill out more than that on your 2010 census form?
I'm wondering if they sent this ridiculously long questionnaire to those who did not cooperate with all the 2010 census questions?
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Posted in reply to the post by mayaprana:
A couple years ago when I was working for the Decennial (every 10 years) Census, they told us there's also a separate, ongoing census operation that gathers more detailed info than the Decennial one. They used to gather much more detailed info in the Decennial Census than they do now, but people found it onerous, so they transferred that detailed info-gathering to another program that asks those questions of only a small fraction of the populace so as not to impose on people too much. That program is the American Community Survey. The Census Bureau website explains it thusly:
"The American Community Survey (ACS) is an ongoing survey that provides data every year -- giving communities the current information they need to plan investments and services. Information from the survey generates data that help determine how more than $400 billion in federal and state funds are distributed each year.
To help communities, state governments, and federal programs, we ask about:
* age
* sex
* race
* family and relationships
* income and benefits
* health insurance
* education
* veteran status
* disabilities
* where you work and how you get there
* where you live and how much you pay for some essentials
All this detail is combined into statistics that are used to help decide everything from school lunch programs to new hospitals."
So presumably they're asking what time you leave for work so they can figure out the traffic load in various areas, the better to plan traffic control, etc. I don't much trust our corrupt government, but I don't see any reason to suspect nefarious purposes in this particular program. But then again, I'm one of those blinkered dupes who doesn't realize that every single thing the government does is part of the plan of the shape-shifting, blood-sucking reptilian humanoids from the 6th Dimension who are the real rulers of the world.
Wikipedia says: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey
Seems it might be official from the US Census Bureau.
Suppose your response is "None of your business?" What's the penalty for a flip answer?
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Posted in reply to the post by mayaprana:
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Posted in reply to the post by Karl Frederick:
Some of these comments will give you an idea of how little their legal requirement holds water. I just received a green post card asking me to fill out the survey (after they sent me 2 surveys that I recycled). I'm ignoring it.
[These comments are from the website https://www.freerepublic.com/ which describes itself as "Free Republic is the premier online gathering place for independent, grass-roots conservatism on the web." - Barry]
AmericanCommunity Survey
US Census ^| 1/26/2012 | ME
Posted on ThuJan 26 2012 19:46:05 GMT-0800 (Pacific Standard Time) by John S Mosby
Do I have to respond to the American Community Survey / Puerto Rico Community Survey?
Yes.Respondents are required to answer all questions on the American CommunitySurvey (ACS) to the best of their ability. Response to this and other Censussurveys is required by law (Section 221 of Title 13, Chapter 7, United StatesCode). This chapter also contains information regarding offenses and possible penalties. According to Section 221, persons who do not respond shall be fined not more than $100. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 3571 and Section 3559, in effect amends Title 13 U.S.C. Section 221 by changing the fine for anyone over 18 years old who refuses or willfully neglects to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers from a fine of "not more than $100" to "not more than $5,000."
(Excerpt) Read more ataskacs.census.gov...
TOPICS:Government
KEYWORDS:census; government; intrusion; privacy
The American Community Survey is sent outin envelope and says it is required to be answered. Absolutely intrusive, asking names, income, sources, what kind of work, how often. They say there is a penalty for not returning, and the GOP in Aug 2010 made a resolution to get this stopped. Anybody ignore it and have anything happen?
1posted onThu Jan 26 2012 19:46:13 GMT-0800 (PacificStandard Time)byJohnS Mosby
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To:JohnS Mosby
I received that survey. I told them how many people lived in my house, my race is “human”, and every page after that I told them was none of their business.
Haven’t heard anything from them.
2posted onThu Jan 26 2012 19:59:40 GMT-0800 (PacificStandard Time)bySkiKnee
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To:JohnS Mosby
Do you have to file it out and send it back...NO!!! We got one ofthese the last 2 years. They may eventually call and try to pursude you viaextortion via threat of fine, but we have never filled them out and we neverwill. We have never been fined, nor can they fine us because of the law. they would have to send these to every household, they are not allowed under the lawto pick and chose.
3posted onThu Jan 26 2012 20:01:33 GMT-0800 (PacificStandard Time)bypatlin("Knowledgeis a powerful source that is 2nd to none but God" ConstitutionallySpeaking2011)
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To:JohnS Mosby
They sent them to me 3 years in a row. Haven't filled out one yet. My answering machine gets messages for about a weekand then they quit. Then they send me reminders in the mail on how I would help my community if I fill out their survey.
Don't give the government any thing. They always use the information against you. Tell them to kiss your ass.
4posted onThu Jan 26 2012 20:08:42 GMT-0800 (PacificStandard Time)bymetalurgist(I Want your countryback? It'll take guns and rope. Marxists won't give up peaceably.)
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[there were several more or the same that I have removed - Barry]
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Posted in reply to the post by mayaprana:
Here's an excellent New York Times article about the American Community Survey. There's also a recent NYT Editorial supporting the survey.
https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images...logo152x23.gif
NEWS ANALYSIS
The Beginning of the End of the Census?
https://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/20/s...rvey.html?_r=1
By CATHERINE RAMPELL Published: May 19, 2012
THE American Community Survey may be the most important government function you’ve never heard of, and it’s in trouble.
This survey of American households has been around in some form since 1850, either as a longer version of or a richer supplement to the basic decennial census. It tells Americans how poor we are, how rich we are, who is suffering, who is thriving, where people work, what kind of training people need to get jobs, what languages people speak, who uses food stamps, who has access to health care, and so on.
It is, more or less, the country’s primary check for determining how well the government is doing — and in fact what the government will be doing. The survey’s findings help determine how over $400 billion in government funds is distributed each year.
But last week, the Republican-led House voted to eliminate the survey altogether, on the grounds that the government should not be butting its nose into Americans’ homes.
“This is a program that intrudes on people’s lives, just like the Environmental Protection Agency or the bank regulators,” said Daniel Webster, a first-term Republican congressman from Florida who sponsored the relevant legislation.
“We’re spending $70 per person to fill this out. That’s just not cost effective,” he continued, “especially since in the end this is not a scientific survey. It’s a random survey.”
In fact, the randomness of the survey is precisely what makes the survey scientific, statistical experts say.
Each year the Census Bureau polls a representative, randomized sample of about three million American households about demographics, habits, languages spoken, occupation, housing and various other categories. The resulting numbers are released without identifying individuals, and offer current demographic portraits of even the country’s tiniest communities.
It is the largest (and only) data set of its kind and is used across the federal government in formulas that determine how much funding states and communities get for things like education and public health.
For example, a question on flush toilets — one that some politicians like to cite as being especially invasive — is used to help assess groundwater contamination for rural parts of the country that do not have modern waste disposal systems, according to the Census Bureau.
Law enforcement agencies have likewise used the data to predict criminal activities likemethamphetamine production.
Their recent vote aside, members of Congress do seem to realize how useful these numbers are. After all, they use the data themselves.
A number of questions on the survey have been added because Congress specifically demanded their inclusion. In 2008, for example, Congress passed a law requiring the American Community Survey to add questions about computer and Internet use. Additionally, recent survey data are featured on the Web sites of many representatives who voted to kill the program — including Mr. Webster’s own home page.
The legislation is expected to go to the Senate this week, and all sorts of stakeholders are coming out of the woodwork.
“Knowing what’s happening in our economy is so desperately important to keeping our economy functioning smoothly,” said Maurine Haver, the chief executive and founder of Haver Analytics, a data analysis company. “The reason the Great Recession did not become another Great Depression is because of the more current economic data we have today that we didn’t have in the 1930s.”
She added that having good data about the state of the economy was one of America’s primary competitive advantages. “The Chinese are probably watching all this with glee,” she said, noting that the Chinese government has also opted not to publish economic data on occasion, generally when the news wasn’t good.
Other private companies and industry groups — including the United States Chamber of Commerce, the National Retail Federation and the National Association of Home Builders— are up in arms.
Target recently released a video explaining how it used these census data to determine where to locate new stores. Economic development organizations and other business groups say they use the numbers to figure out where potential workers are.
Mr. Webster says that businesses should instead be thanking House Republicans for reducing the government’s reach.
“What really promotes business in this country is liberty,” he said, “not demand for information.”
Mr. Webster and other critics have gone so far as to say the American Community Survey is unconstitutional. Of course, the basic decennial census is specifically enumerated in the United States Constitution, and courts have ruled that this longer form of the census survey is constitutional as well.
Some census watchers — like Andrew Reamer, a research professor at the George Washington University Institute of Public Policy — say they do not expect the Senate to agree on fully eliminating the American Community Survey (as well as the Economic Census, which would also be effectively destroyed by the House bill).
Rather, Mr. Reamer suspects, Republicans may hope that when the Senate and House bills go to a conference committee, a final compromise will keep the survey, but make participation in it voluntary. Under current law, participation is mandatory.
If the American Community Survey were made voluntary, experts say, the census would have to spend significantly more money on follow-up phone calls and in-person visits to get enough households to answer.
But Congress also plans to cut the census budget, making such follow-ups prohibitively expensive.
“If it’s voluntary, then we’ll just get bad data,” said Kenneth Prewitt, a former director of the census who is now at Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs. “That means businesses will make bad decisions, and government will make bad decisions, which means we won’t even know where we actually are wasting our tax dollars.”
Catherine Rampell is an economics reporter for The New York Times.
This Republican politico Webster has been mercifully spared the ravages of intelligence. That quote from him, "...this is not a scientific survey. It’s a random survey”" is one of the most exquisitely stupid quotes I've ever seen.
Possibly Daniel Webster should receive a Golden Crocoduck nomination.
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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:
'course, there are those who say that we already know - that any government spending is wasting our tax dollars.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Barry:
I always question whether a current controversy is new or not, whether it's just coming around again and will be handled the same way as in the past. This time, we may be screwed. People have always been suspicious of government, but it wasn't until the era of data mining that it really is the threat people have always feared it was. So it's indeed likely that the baby will be splashing around in a puddle of what used to be its bathwater.
I too think the reaction to this long exiting sociological research practice, which is done for good and necessary reasons, is, uh, unfounded and irrational.
But, how's this for consolation? Once the NSA Megacenter in Utah is up and running next year they'll have all that and more!
Win/Win!!
Winning!!!
good point...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:
Actually, this touches on one of my concerns with all privacy protection laws these days. It seems likely to me that there will be legislation preventing such benign uses of our data; only the more nefarious and secretive uses of the data collected by private industry and government will remain. The privacy laws will be invoked by those in power to protect themselves and will be circumvented by the same organizations when they're interested in the rest of us. Right now we're relying on weird guerilla actions from groups like Anonymous, along with the frequent incompetence of big beaurocracies, to keep informed. I doubt something like the Church commission, or the Freedom of Information Act, would fly in today's political climate. And we have more need of legislated openness than ever before.
This was back in 1945. The government will use any confidential data, then and now, if it serves their ends.
Liz
https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...524-173814.png
Confirmed: The U.S. Census Bureau Gave Up Names of Japanese-Americans in WW II
Government documents show that the agency handed over names and addresses to the Secret Service
By JR Minkel | March 30, 2007 |
REVELATIONS: Records show that in 1943 the Census Bureau revealed names and addresses of Japanese-Americans in the Washington, D.C., area. Prior research had found that the Bureau provided the government with less specific information about Japanese-Americans in California and other states to round them up (above) for imprisonment in internment camps. Image: LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Despite decades of denials, government records confirm that the U.S. Census Bureau provided the U.S. Secret Service with names and addresses of Japanese-Americans during World War II.
Article continues at https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...he-us-census-b
Ubaru,
Census data by name, address and ethnicity will still be collected in the regular Census. That is not under threat of defunding by the Teabaggers in the House.
(I'm willing to bet the Senate will flush the move to eliminate the Community Survey. The information is too vital for needs planning, when it comes to setting policy for infrastructure spending, economic development, education and a host of other domestic issues.)
Even if the community survey were eliminated, it would do nothing to stop the collection of data, of the kind that could have been used to round up and intern the Issei and Nissei. If the neighborhood information gathered by the Community Survey had not been available in 1942, it would only have made the roundup harder. As clerks would have been required to pour through voting registration lists, and individualized Census records.
Now, with digitized records, they can easily pull out all of the people that "fit the description", whatever the preferred profile. The neighborhood data from the Community Survey is no longer necessary.
Also, since it has been recognized that the internment of the Japanese was unjustified, has been apologized for (far too late and after a long and arduous fight for justice) and reparations paid. One of the few cases in which that has been done. There are cultural and institutional barriers to doing similar things.
In spite of what you swallow from PrisonPlanet, Ron Paul and other alarmist sources of exaggeration and sketchy, illogical rumor mongering to move books and DVD's touted by their ideologue authors.
If you're arguing that the Community Survey should be dumped, because the Japanese were interned, it's a bit of a stretch given modern computing. Even if you could eliminate the entire Census, there are other means to determine population profiles. Facebook, phone books, many other non-governmental sources.
Pandora's box has already been opened, you're grasping at straws.
Besides, do you not care about election districting and representational proportioning?
Let's set domestic expenditures to alleviate social ills aside. Since as a Libertarian I expect you would prefer a dog eat dog, Hobbesian nightmare. It's still a marginally free country, and you have every right to your opinions.
Mad mad miles...such an inflammatory one you.
You read a lot of B.S. into my making a simple post of an article. And your two incomplete sentences say what?? Who knows. I don't want to know from someone who knows little about respecting others on this board.
To sum up...all that I am saying about the Census and Community Surveys is that the government can't be trusted with our data, as some here have been posting that it's all justifiable.
And, incidentally, all that is required by law to be filled out on the 10 year Census is how many people live in a residence. No more information is required, despite what they say.
BTW, I can't stand listening to Alex Jones. He's too angry, like you. And Libertarian = dog eat dog? No. Libertarian = Respect others, Love, Liberty, and Peace.
:Yinyangv:
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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles: