Traffic School: Cheating and other misdemeanors

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Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:

In order to get around this, I downloaded each of the chapters and then did a "find" command search, located the necessary information, and answered the questions correctly. This saved my eyes, my time, and my sanity.

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...And, by avoiding having to read the material, insured that you didn't learn much, I guess. I'm a bit distressed by this, and by Barry's earlier post (7-17-11) about how to cheat at online traffic school. I think it's reasonable to imagine that more people get injured or killed in traffic accidents than would happen if people actually took traffic school seriously (like I did when I had to attend one), rather than cheating so as to avoid the effort of actually learning something.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

...And, by avoiding having to read the material, insured that you didn't learn much, I guess. I'm a bit distressed by this, and by Barry's earlier post (7-17-11) about how to cheat at online traffic school. I think it's reasonable to imagine that more people get injured or killed in traffic accidents than would happen if people actually took traffic school seriously (like I did when I had to attend one), rather than cheating so as to avoid the effort of actually learning something.

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I scanned it for interesting bits, but most of it is either common sense or meaningless technical or legalistic details (how many feet for this, penalties for that, etc.). If were really tuned to teach you some more advanced practical driving skills, I'd be interested!

Dixon, you're sounding just a little sanctimonious here. Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road. The real problem is the cops, with the exception of the sheriff, who does actual police work, are going nuts writing tickets. Do you feel safer driving now that so many of us are getting so many tickets? I don't. In fact I feel intimidated and pissed off that the cops, especially the CHP, are handing out tickets far more frequently than in the past and for far less egregious violations of the vehicle code. I saw a CHP hiding behind bushes on Old Cazadero road doing a brisk business ticketing neighbors for rolling a stop sign in a 25 mph residential zone. They now drive around in SUVs and pairs of motorcycles in the Guerneville area. Where there used to be 1 or 2 officers in west county now there seems to be dozens. This is quite simply a matter of pumping up the money in the coffers of the state, writing tickets at $400 a pop. Taxation without representation? If you are low income you are really screwed, you gonna pay rent and feed your family or pay the ticket? Then the insurance companies benefit from the largesse of the police by jacking up insurance rates on all the (new) bad drivers out there. Even parking tickets are ridiculously expensive. So cops spend their career making $100,000 a year and ruin folks days one person at time, retire at 50 years of age with 90% pensions. Many, if not most, of the CHP, including the former head man Spike Helmick (lol, what a name for a cop) retire and go out on disability at the same time so as to really jack up their pensions on the taxpayers dime, which is a shame and a scam. Do you feel safer or is your wallet just lighter?

So, Dixon, as long as we are just pawns in a cynical game, what's the harm in beating the sham of traffic school?

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

...And, by avoiding having to read the material, insured that you didn't learn much, I guess. I'm a bit distressed by this, and by Barry's earlier post (7-17-11) about how to cheat at online traffic school. I think it's reasonable to imagine that more people get injured or killed in traffic accidents than would happen if people actually took traffic school seriously (like I did when I had to attend one), rather than cheating so as to avoid the effort of actually learning something.

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Dixon, I hear you saying you believe I didn't learn much from traffic school. I hear that you are feeling distressed by this. I hear you insinuating that I cheated at online traffic school. I hear you saying that you did pay attention when you had to go to traffic school. I hear you saying that you believe I avoided the effort of actually learning something. Thanks for sharing, Dixon.

boy o boy, sm. i don't think i've ever seen a better illustration of "supercilious".
kathy

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Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:

Dixon, I hear you saying you believe I didn't learn much from traffic school. I hear that you are feeling distressed by this. I hear you insinuating that I cheated at online traffic school. I hear you saying that you did pay attention when you had to go to traffic school. I hear you saying that you believe I avoided the effort of actually learning something. Thanks for sharing, Dixon.

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

boy o boy, sm. i don't think i've ever seen a better illustration of "supercilious".

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I'll save you guys the work...

supercilious: adjective haughtily disdainful or contemptuous, as a person or a facial expression.

contemptuous:
–adjective showing or expressing contempt or disdain; scornful.

My :2cents:: At first I thought Kathy nailed it, but on a close re-read I'm not too sure...

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Posted in reply to the post by kpage9:

boy o boy, sm. i don't think i've ever seen a better illustration of "supercilious".
kathy

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I did not want to attack Dixon for what I thought was a judgmental comment, as in "I learned from traffic school and you're endangering other drivers because you cheated.". I just thought I'd let him know that I heard what he was saying. That's really all I did. It's a standard technique that is recommended to couples when they are having difficulty communicating. Maybe by accurately mirroring what Dixon wrote, you are seeing HIS superciliousness. It would seem that's what you were saying. Is it a bad thing that I did?

Thanks for your comments. I appreciate knowing people are watching the conversations on this chat list. I feel heard.

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Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:

Dixon, I hear you saying you believe I didn't learn much from traffic school. I hear that you are feeling distressed by this. I hear you insinuating that I cheated at online traffic school. I hear you saying that you did pay attention when you had to go to traffic school. I hear you saying that you believe I avoided the effort of actually learning something. Thanks for sharing, Dixon.

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The only thing smarmier than passive-aggressiveness is New Age passive-aggressiveness. :meditate:

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Dixon, you're sounding just a little sanctimonious here.

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Jbox, would it be possible for someone to politely suggest that someone did something they shouldn't have done without your labeling them "sanctimonious"? And if so, how?

And if you criticize me for criticizing, are you being sanctimonious by your own standard?

Apart from that, you make some good points (although some of your criticism of the cops, even if true, is irrelevant to the current discussion). Your point about people getting popped for minor things like "rolling a stop sign" is well taken, and that very thing has happened to me. I agree that traffic school could reasonably be seen as a "sham" when it's handed out for harmless technical infractions.

But it doesn't logically follow that all of traffic enforcement and traffic school is a "cynical game" and a "sham". That position is too much of a leap; it seems to be just an excuse for irresponsibility. When I went to traffic school for getting two speeding tickets within 30 days, I accepted that my speeding was a threat to the public, accepted that the inconvenience, embarrassment and expense of traffic school was a natural consequence of my behavior, and did the entire task without bitching and moaning about it. As a result, I'm a better driver and therefore our community is a little safer. I call upon everyone to hold themselves to the same standard.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

The only thing smarmier than passive-aggressiveness is New Age passive-aggressiveness. :meditate:

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Smarmy: 1. revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness
2. of low sleazy taste or quality

Dixon, I now hear you saying that I am passive-aggressive, smarmy, and New Age. I can't imagine you think I am ingratiating, because I clearly have no interest in flattering you or currying favor with you. I don't get "smug" either, because I do not feel holier than thou. Falsely earnest? That doesn't ring true, because I earnestly believe you insinuated I was a cheat who didn't take traffic school seriously and thereby endangered, injured, or killed people in traffic accidents. "Low sleazy taste or quality"? Hmmm. That might be a compliment in some quarters.

I learned a long time ago that when you point your index finger at someone, you have three fingers pointing at yourself . . . and one of those fingers is your middle finger. :wink:

Thanks for enlivening my Friday evening.

Star Man

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Dixon, you're sounding just a little sanctimonious here. Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road. The real problem is the cops,...

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While we're at it....

sanctimonious
–adjective 1. making a hypocritical show of religious devotion, piety, righteousness, etc.:They resented his sanctimonious comments on immorality in America.

Looks like fun; let me try it:

Star Man, I hear you evading the issues of whether you cheated on the Traffic School exam, whether one should do so, and whether that results in more traffic accidents due to less learning about how to drive safely. I hear you judging me for judging. I hear you saying, albeit indirectly, that you want to respond by giving me the finger.

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Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:

Smarmy: 1. revealing or marked by a smug, ingratiating, or false earnestness
2. of low sleazy taste or quality
Dixon, I now hear you saying that I am passive-aggressive, smarmy, and New Age. I can't imagine you think I am ingratiating, because I clearly have no interest in flattering you or currying favor with you. I don't get "smug" either, because I do not feel holier than thou. Falsely earnest? That doesn't ring true, because I earnestly believe you insinuated I was a cheat who didn't take traffic school seriously and thereby endangered, injured, or killed people in traffic accidents. "Low sleazy taste or quality"? Hmmm. That might be a compliment in some quarters.
I learned a long time ago that when you point your index finger at someone, you have three fingers pointing at yourself . . . and one of those fingers is your middle finger. :wink:
Thanks for enlivening my Friday evening.
Star Man

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As a bike commuter & driver in West Sonoma County, I find these comments absolutely stunning.
On most days, I observe at least one driver and usually more ignoring stop signs, ignoring people in cross walks,
speeding through intersections after the light has turned red, speeding in neighborhoods, speeding through parking lots, speeding, speeding, speeding.
I do not feel sorry for drivers being stoped for "less egregious" violations. Nor do I feel sorry for those having to make a choice between paying a ticket or paying their rent. Frankly I'm grateful that the CHP are handing out tickets. Stop blaming them for your actions. If most of you are aware of the rules of the road, then follow them.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Dixon, you're sounding just a little sanctimonious here. Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road. The real problem is the cops, with the exception of the sheriff, who does actual police work, are going nuts writing tickets. Do you feel safer driving now that so many of us are getting so many tickets? I don't. In fact I feel intimidated and pissed off that the cops, especially the CHP, are handing out tickets far more frequently than in the past and for far less egregious violations of the vehicle code. I saw a CHP hiding behind bushes on Old Cazadero road doing a brisk business ticketing neighbors for rolling a stop sign in a 25 mph residential zone. They now drive around in SUVs and pairs of motorcycles in the Guerneville area. Where there used to be 1 or 2 officers in west county now there seems to be dozens. This is quite simply a matter of pumping up the money in the coffers of the state, writing tickets at $400 a pop. Taxation without representation? If you are low income you are really screwed, you gonna pay rent and feed your family or pay the ticket? Then the insurance companies benefit from the largesse of the police by jacking up insurance rates on all the (new) bad drivers out there. Even parking tickets are ridiculously expensive. So cops spend their career making $100,000 a year and ruin folks days one person at time, retire at 50 years of age with 90% pensions. Many, if not most, of the CHP, including the former head man Spike Helmick (lol, what a name for a cop) retire and go out on disability at the same time so as to really jack up their pensions on the taxpayers dime, which is a shame and a scam. Do you feel safer or is your wallet just lighter?

So, Dixon, as long as we are just pawns in a cynical game, what's the harm in beating the sham of traffic school?

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Posted in reply to the post by Dixon:

Looks like fun; let me try it:

Star Man, I hear you evading the issues of whether you cheated on the Traffic School exam, whether one should do so, and whether that results in more traffic accidents due to less learning about how to drive safely. I hear you judging me for judging. I hear you saying, albeit indirectly, that you want to respond by giving me the finger.

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Dixon, I feel heard. Big Smile

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Posted in reply to the post by amalia:

As a bike commuter & driver in West Sonoma County, I find these comments absolutely stunning.
On most days, I observe at least one driver and usually more ignoring stop signs, ignoring people in cross walks,
speeding through intersections after the light has turned red, speeding in neighborhoods, speeding through parking lots, speeding, speeding, speeding.
I do not feel sorry for drivers being stoped for "less egregious" violations. Nor do I feel sorry for those having to make a choice between paying a ticket or paying their rent. Frankly I'm grateful that the CHP are handing out tickets. Stop blaming them for your actions. If most of you are aware of the rules of the road, then follow them.

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Dear Amalia, I agree with your comments completely. I am an extremely careful driver. I believe in giving bicyclists plenty of room and the right of way. I drive defensively. I drive below the speed limit on city streets. I come to a complete stop at stop signs, look both ways, and only then do I proceed. I do not tailgate. If someone tailgates me, I pull over to let them pass. I do not drink and drive. I believe that citizens who do drive drunk more than once should have their licenses revoked for 2 years. I regard driving as a privilege, not a right. I believe we should all be required to drive small, fuel-efficient cars. My heart breaks when I read about the death of a bicyclist being hit by a car. Thanks for bringing sanity to this thread.

I have been maligned in this thread for supposedly cheating on an on-line traffic school exam. I was charged with failing to stop completely at a stop light before turning right. I was driving a stick shift, and I came to a complete enough stop to down shift into low. I had a large sticker on the back of the van that proclaimed "Bush Knew" (this was in 2002 in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks). The officer who stopped me appeared to be a red-neck who was offended by the sticker and decided to make my life more difficult because he disagreed with my political opinion. I quickly discovered that I knew all the material on the online course, and so I found a way to minimize the time required to satisfy the State. No lives were endangered by my actions, either in the stop light incident or by my finding a way to avoid reading every line of a tedious manual.

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Posted in reply to the post by amalia:

As a bike commuter & driver in West Sonoma County, I find these comments absolutely stunning.
On most days, I observe at least one driver and usually more ignoring stop signs, ignoring people in cross walks,
speeding through intersections after the light has turned red, speeding in neighborhoods, speeding through parking lots, speeding, speeding, speeding.
I do not feel sorry for drivers being stoped for "less egregious" violations. Nor do I feel sorry for those having to make a choice between paying a ticket or paying their rent. Frankly I'm grateful that the CHP are handing out tickets. Stop blaming them for your actions. If most of you are aware of the rules of the road, then follow them.

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Well, I wish bike riders would follow the rules of the road like car drivers. They almost never stop at stop signs and often blow through stop sign intersections, sometimes with pedestrians, without even slowing down. Anyway, my point was that enforcement of traffic laws has increased as a way to increase revenue for cities, counties, and the state. Furthermore, I don't feel any safer because of it, but rather intimidated by an overbearing police presence. I see this as an abridgement of freedom. Laws always have been, and should be, enforced with the essential spirit of the law in mind. When laws are enforced to the letter (like going 1 or 2 miles over the speed limit) we all lose something and we are a big step closer to an authoritarian police state. That is something I refuse to tolerate.

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

Dixon, you're sounding just a little sanctimonious here. Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road.

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no they don't and no they aren't. If you think so, you probably fall in the category of people who drive without paying a hell of a lot of attention. I don't see much "good driving" out there and I've always done a lot of driving. I see wacky stuff all the time; I see a lot of drivers who can't react to the flow of traffic or upcoming hazards - they think they're "good drivers" because they slow down if they're confused (which happens all the time). Try driving in an area with speed changes and curves. You'll see people going too fast if the road's straight, regardless of speed limit or potential hazards from incoming driveways and roads, and crawl through corners when the road's been engineered for the same speed as is legal (and safe) on the straight section before it. You see people slow way down when they are about to go by a truck that's in another lane on the freeway. You see them get caught by surprise when merge lanes come in at overpasses and have no idea of whether there's space available in the lane to their left. Few think of the left lane as a passing lane, they get on the freeway and move into it so they don't have to pay attention to merging traffic, which I suppose is their way of dealing with the previous observation. People drive on country roads around here at speeds (too fast or too slow) that have nothing to do with what's safe or posted, but instead with whether ditches and curves scare them or not. I do drive a lot, and I could extend this rant for pages....

I don't know that driving school helps much, though, so I don't fault those who treat it cavalierly.

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The real problem is the cops, ...

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that's just silly. If there's a grain of truth to it, it's a small grain. The traffic police haven't found a cunning way to implement taxation without representation; there's no reason to go all tea-party on it. It's no shock that they'd try to draw some revenue out of enforcement. Sadly the DEA can't sell their seizures on the open market to recoup some of their costs. But when a branch of government can do some of its funding by extracting financial penalties they may as well. Dragging in pension resentment just muddies the waters.

Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road. The real problem is the cops,
that is one interpretation of "the real problem." Another could be "attitude." As in thinking "Stop" sign really means,
"Go REALLY slow." "Go slow enough to downshift with a manual transmission." It's easy to thwart those nasty police officers---come to a complete stop, then you can drive off with no worries. Same with those nasty "speed cops." Drive whatever the posted speed limit says (taking into account the basic speed law if conditions warrant). Makes life simpler...and you don't have to blame YOUR errors on the police. When you come to a COMPLETE stop, you'll be able to avoid being hit by the driver coming from the side who decides it's late, it's quiet, it's deserted...so he/she can just "slow down" at the STOP sign---the infamous "California stop." STOP is not the same as SLOW. As for speed limit signs, you CAN be cited for speeding if you exceed the speed limit while passing. The 'speed limit' is for driving speed and doesn't state, "You can exceed the speed limit while passing." And if you're driving slower, let the other driver pass!

and then I gets pulled over and cited whilst holding the New Yorker in my left hand and the electric shaver in my right hand and the coffee cup between my legs. the officer obviously disagreed with my politics---i didn't have ANY bumper stickers and they thought i didn't support my local police department. but the officer was understanding----when i pointed out that i was using cruise control to free up my hands, they let me off with a warning:"Shave with your LEFT hand."

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Posted in reply to the post by marko:

Let's face it, most people know how to drive and are aware of the rules of the road. The real problem is the cops,
that is one interpretation of "the real problem." Another could be "attitude." As in thinking "Stop" sign really means,
"Go REALLY slow." "Go slow enough to downshift with a manual transmission." It's easy to thwart those nasty police officers---come to a complete stop, then you can drive off with no worries. Same with those nasty "speed cops." Drive whatever the posted speed limit says (taking into account the basic speed law if conditions warrant). Makes life simpler...and you don't have to blame YOUR errors on the police. When you come to a COMPLETE stop, you'll be able to avoid being hit by the driver coming from the side who decides it's late, it's quiet, it's deserted...so he/she can just "slow down" at the STOP sign---the infamous "California stop." STOP is not the same as SLOW. As for speed limit signs, you CAN be cited for speeding if you exceed the speed limit while passing. The 'speed limit' is for driving speed and doesn't state, "You can exceed the speed limit while passing." And if you're driving slower, let the other driver pass!

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Thanks for the explanation, officer. While I'm sure you obey all traffic laws all the time I see your fellow officers rolling stop signs all the time, just like the rest of us. They get to decide who's day they are going to ruin for some BS infraction. There are plenty of egregious violators out there who should be cited, I have no problem with that type of enforcement. Where's a cop when you really need one? He's busy laying in wait behind the bushes trying to pull you or your neighbor over for doing a Hollywood stop on your way home from work. That'll be $400 and an insurance hike, have a nice day...........

To continue the driver discussion, there are a lot of lousy drivers on the road. I'm not referring to speeding because I believe speed isn't so much the problem as poor judgement, impulsive maneuvers, impatience and rudeness. A lot of dumb drivers tailgate, thinking that they'll reach their destination faster. False! Some make sudden lane changes WITHOUT so much as a signal. How about all the people in no particular hurry driving 50mph in the left lane? Not only is this annoying, but it creates impatience amongst other drivers. Another annoying practice is when drivers don't judge other people's speed and enter a roadway or change lanes into the path of traffic.

As much as people complain about local drivers, a report last year found that Santa Rosa has the 2nd lowest accident rate in California. Truth be told, Sonoma County drivers are relatively good compared to other areas. If I had a buck for every a__hole in the south bay speeding and cutting in and out of traffic in their BMW while talking on their cell phone, I'd BE that guy. I travel Hwy. 280 a lot for business. One can be driving 10-15 mph over the speed limit and still end up with some idiot one car length behind you.

Hey fellow lousy drivers...

I've split the recent discussion that erupted in the traffic school recommendation thread to this new one entitled:

Traffic School: Cheating and other misdemeanors

this was supposed to be a forum for people to locate traffic schools
and as often seen on wacco it is a place to act like children and judge each other
sometimes i am embarrassed being a member of this community
this type of nonsense should be permitted in specific sections , not in places that are meant to provide information , not opinions and personality bashing ......ugghhh

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Posted in reply to the post by realfire:

this was supposed to be a forum for people to locate traffic schools
and as often seen on wacco it is a place to act like children and judge each other
sometimes i am embarrassed being a member of this community
this type of nonsense should be permitted in specific sections , not in places that are meant to provide information , not opinions and personality bashing ......ugghhh

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Realfire, can you not distinguish between judging a person and judging a particular behavior? If I politely suggest that a particular behavior is unethical or possibly harmful, is that the same as "personality bashing"? Is it your position that people should never suggest that someone did something wrong? And is it possible that you could be unconscious of the fact that your post is the most judgmental one that's appeared on this thread yet? Look at your post again and notice that it's dripping with self-righteous judgmentalness. And do you see that judging people for judging is both ironic and hypocritical?

I often encounter people in this New Agey community who seem to believe that any and all judgment is wrong. Typically, these people are among the most judgmental of all, but are in denial of it, projecting their judgmentalness onto others and then judging them for it! :newangel:

Wow. Just when I thought it was the younger generations, this thread comes up.

What is "it"? The attitude in society today that avoids personal responsibility. The problem is the COPS who enforce the traffic laws. Really? Then the solution would be to rid the country of all law enforcement. According to some members here, cops are nothing but racist thugs who are given a badge, a gun and the authority to rampantly trample on our rights.

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we did simply get rid of all the cops. I wonder how long it would take for those very same people to complain that there were no cops to protect them from being robbed, beaten or worse. They'd blame society for taking away the cops, even though they'd be the ones who helped get rid of them in the first place.

I support all traffic school cheaters. Keep up the good work! I recently drive across the country two times, and each state has miles and miles of road construction in which the fines are all doubled. Needless to say there are cops everywhere within that road construction and my friend got two tickets, one in Nevada and one in Michigan, both for going five miles over. I doubt that diligence at traffic school will help him much.

An afterthought - yes, Imagery. I would be in favor of that.

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Posted in reply to the post by Imagery:

Wow. Just when I thought it was the younger generations, this thread comes up.

What is "it"? The attitude in society today that avoids personal responsibility. The problem is the COPS who enforce the traffic laws. Really? Then the solution would be to rid the country of all law enforcement. According to some members here, cops are nothing but racist thugs who are given a badge, a gun and the authority to rampantly trample on our rights.

Sometimes I wonder what would happen if we did simply get rid of all the cops. I wonder how long it would take for those very same people to complain that there were no cops to protect them from being robbed, beaten or worse. They'd blame society for taking away the cops, even though they'd be the ones who helped get rid of them in the first place.

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Well, gee-whillickers, Imagery, I think I said the cops are writing many more traffic tickets as a means of enhancing revenue and that it didn't have much to do with public safety. Alot of drivers feel intimidated and hassled by overzealous cops who remind me of a pickpocket with a uniform, a badge, and a gun. Nobody said get rid of law enforcement, lord knows we need it. I just wish they would use a little more judgment and discretion in the enforcement of traffic laws and not make it seem like the police boot is on the neck of law abiding (well, most of the time) folks.