Speeding, tickets and crashes on 116 south of Sebastopol

I received a ticket two days after christmas. I had driven 45 miles from a doctor appointment and was about 2 Miles from my home.
But as soon as I entered Sebastopol area on Hwy 116 near the baker/antique store near todd Rd (they hide in the dark there) I soon saw those happy lights behind me. I haven't gotten a ticket in 10 years. And I always drive extremely slow in Sebastopol. For 2 reasons Sebastopolians jump out in front of your car at any speed and the other because the police always are there. I didn't know that from Lone Pine rd up you can go only 45 miles an hour. Probably because everybody goes faster. But it was near midnight and I was the only victim around so guess who got the ticket. The policeman said I drove right by him going 55 mile an hour, he acted like I saw him and did it on purpose to offend him. He was sitting in a dark corner near the store with no lights on. I have seen them there before. He said I was on a very dangerous road (with no traffic around me?). When I told him I was tired and trying to get home and I usually take the Roblar back road but it was flooded. He said I shouldn't drive then. Oh well I will know the speed limit now and probably not take that section anymore. By they way I said "Merry Christmas" to him.

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Posted in reply to the post by CarolineL:

I didn't know that from Lone Pine rd up you can go only 45 miles an hour. Probably because everybody goes faster...Oh well I will know the speed limit now...

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If westbound on 116, the speed limit drops from 50 mph to 45 mph at Llano Rd intersection, not at Lone Pine Rd. Know the posted speed limit at all times by noting the regulatory speed limit signs, then drive at or below that speed, and you will not get a speeding ticket. Pretty simple. All the little reasons and excuses mean nothing if you are exceeding the posted speed limit. This isn't rocket surgery.

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Posted in reply to the post by CarolineL:

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But as soon as I entered Sebastopol area on Hwy 116 near the baker/antique store near todd Rd...

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That is considerably outside the city limits of Sebastopol and thus outside the jurisdiction of the Sebastopol Police Dept. The Sebastopol City Limit starts at Cooper Rd, just south of the Marriott Hotel.

Thanks for the tip on LLano rd. It doesn't seem like highway speeds. Oh well I am human and I drove perfectly all the way home some 50 miles. Have you ever noticed that the speed signs are rather far apart, sometimes I will looking for quite a while for the speed limit sign.

Hi Caroline - Our wine shop is near where you got your ticket.

at the Antique Shop/Todd Road and the first Cooper road. I am pretty sure this was CHP but could have been Sonoma County Sheriff.

Basically, there is a long straightaway between Lone Pine and the left hand curve at my shop. The police often sit there at night looking for speeders / drunk drivers. I see folks getting tickets. It doesn't necessarily slow down any of the traffic though as that stretch is fairly wide and long so folks naturally speed up. I think the police have figured that out and are using it.

I have seen one car during the day spin out at the curve (near the flea market.) The car landed upside down in the ditch after
almost hitting someone headon. I hear lots of cars coming round the curve almost hit other cars stopped to turn into the flea market.
One of our staff was hit head on going towards 101 AT Lone pine by a driver who turned left into Lone Pine in front of him.
Totally her fault - not a speed thing, inattention He did get hurt.

I believe there was a recent fatality at Llano and 116. There are several recent accidents there from people not paying attention to the other drivers. I know of one fatality at Hessel (north) and 116.

Basically, this whole section is rated around 45. I think you got caught by that stretch from Lone Pine towards town where its easy to speed up.

But other people are constantly 'in a hurry' and not just speeding but tailgating all along the section from Stony Point onwards.
We need to remember that roads like 116 these are NOT interstate highways and 55 is really the MAX and only in a few sections.
With other businesses and homes along 116, 45 is really the limit.

In addition to cross traffic, they are country highways with narrow shoulders, no turn lanes, no middle lanes, ditches on the side of the road etc.

Not trying to preach here - just hoping everyone benefits from this by driving more slowly south of town and anywhere that really,
we are driving country roads.

I wanted to print out stickers saying something like 'Its the Speed MAXIMUM, not the Speed MINIMUM'.

(The thing I don't like about using Roblar as a shortcut is how bumpy the Peterson road is upto Blank) :-)

If you want to be sure to avoid a speeding ticket, train yourself to read every highway sign with special attention to speed limit signs. Then, adjust your speed to the posted limit before you actually get to the speed limit sign. You will find that this takes some effort at first if you are not used to doing it, but after awhile it will become automatic. You will NEVER get another speeding ticket.
Paying attention to signage also helps us stay alert when we are feeling a bit tired.
Have a safe day

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Posted in reply to the post by tomcat:

If you want to be sure to avoid a speeding ticket, train yourself to read every highway sign with special attention to speed limit signs. Then, adjust your speed to the posted limit before you actually get to the speed limit sign. You will find that this takes some effort at first if you are not used to doing it, but after awhile it will become automatic. You will NEVER get another speeding ticket.

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WRONG! I got a ticket driving at 55 in a 55mph zone. The CHP officer simply lied, claiming my equipment needed to be re-calibrated. I managed to prove in court that this was extremely improbable, and the ticket was dismissed. But it showed me that the CHP cannot be trusted to abide by any principle other than to soak the populace for as much money as possible, regardless of the legal facts. Probably the result of the bankruptcy of the State of California. If this happens to you, PLEASE fight it. It costs them much more to have to defend their false accusations of breaking the law, than it would simply to stick to real speeders, and it probably deprives the officer of the brownie points she or he would have been hoping for from the local CHP captain. Since these are the motives for the practice, remove them.

Re: Warning: Speed Trap on Steele Lane!
02.02.11

Challenging the CHP

Yes, you can fight illegal speeding tickets
By Paul Sarran

Like most upstanding citizens, when we get a speeding ticket, we pay it. Without thinking. We are not inclined to question authority. Especially not the authority of the CHP.

However, when my wife got her third speeding ticket in the same place, on Barnes Road between River Road and Dennis Lane, in Santa Rosa, I thought, "Wait a minute—something's wrong here." I began to research. And thanks to David Brown's book How to Fight Your Ticket and Win, I learned that if a radar speeding ticket is issued in a location where the posted speed is not justified by an engineering speed study, the ticket is illegal. (See California Vehicle Code  4080040808.) Even if the officer testifies that in addition to the LIDAR, he visually determined your speed, legally he is an incompetent witness and none of his testimony can be used. That is the law.

Perhaps my wife's tickets were actually illegal, I realized. I decided to find the speed study for Barnes Road. CALTRANS didn't have it. They were very helpful, though, and suggested I try a more local authority.

Sonoma County Public Works had the study, and also issued a statement that there was no valid study for the road, which they provided free of charge. The most recent study dates back to March of 1989. Since, for the purpose of speeding convictions, the study is not supposed to be more than five years old, I knew we had a legitimate case. All three tickets were issued illegally.

Unfortunately, my wife had already pled guilty to the first two, as a compliant and trusting citizen would. We were left with a sense of injustice. We could have gotten those tickets removed by visiting the DMV with a copy of the court's judgment of dismissal for cause, but we have to take the time to do it. That is a cost.

So we requested a formal trial with the officer present.

In order to use these documents in court, I sent copies of the papers we had to the CHP, along with requests for the officer's notes from the back of the ticket. We also requested that the CHP produce a valid speed study as part of the discovery process. We got a letter back from the CHP with the officer's notes and a statement saying that they were not in possession of a valid speed study.
The day of the trial, several CHP officers present stated that the officer was out tending to an accident and would be late. We sat in court all day. The officer never did show. We were the last to be heard that day. When the judge offered all kinds of reduction bargains, we remained firm and refused.

The judge offered to drop the case, since the officer hadn't shown. We didn't accept. We showed the judge the speed study, the declaration of lack of valid survey and the note from the CHP that they were not in possession of a valid study. Shocked, the judge immediately dismissed the case "in the interest of justice."

That is what we wanted, and that is why we spent all day waiting: to have our day of being heard in court, and to have justice.During this process, we were told that the CHP "dot their i's and cross their t's," and that they would never operate an illegal speed trap.
This is a myth. All three of the officers who issued those tickets simply ignored the law. Officers have issued hundreds of tickets at that spot on Barnes Road—all illegal since 1996! I think the individual officers and the CHP owe their victims damages.

We paid fines, got points on our licenses, experienced raised insurance rates and could have lost our license or job because of points on our licenses. It is their fault, and they should be held responsible for the damages they caused. They can't say they didn't know. They are the first ones to tell us that ignorance of the law is no excuse.

This warrants legal suits against the CHP. They got it wrong, and they should have to pay for breaking the law.

If someone has been cited two previous times for speeding on a certain road, it's difficult to have sympathy for that person when they get a third ticket for speeding on the same road. It appears to be a disregard for the posted speed limit. More likely, it is an example of a driver that goes as fast as the car in front of them and assumes the speed limit is whatever feels comfortable to the driver.

An out-of-date traffic engineering study may make the citations technically incorrect, bit it seems like a specious argument to lay such heavy blame on the CHP when the driver willfully disregards regulatory speed limit signs (even after being previously cited twice on the same road). If the engineering study was last done in March 1989, are there changed conditions that would warrant a change in the speed limit now? If so, would these changes lead to an increased speed limit?

We have enough bureaucracy (that we can't afford) without having every road engineering study updated every five years. How about if we just pay attention to the posted speed limits?

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Challenging the CHP

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How about if we just pay attention to ALL the laws, so we can also save the cost of policemen and prisons?

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We have enough bureaucracy (that we can't afford) without having every road engineering study updated every five years. How about if we just pay attention to the posted speed limits?

Well, you are right of course. One should never say never. I guess if the officer is honest and all the equipment is working properly, it is most likely that you will not get a ticket. But at least you will be driving at a safe speed... if the traffic study was done properly and road conditions have not changed.
Bottom line... Be Aware.

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Posted in reply to the post by comodin:

WRONG! I got a ticket driving at 55 in a 55mph zone. The CHP officer simply lied, claiming my equipment needed to be re-calibrated. I managed to prove in court that this was extremely improbable, and the ticket was dismissed. But it showed me that the CHP cannot be trusted to abide by any principle other than to soak the populace for as much money as possible, regardless of the legal facts. Probably the result of the bankruptcy of the State of California. If this happens to you, PLEASE fight it. It costs them much more to have to defend their false accusations of breaking the law, than it would simply to stick to real speeders, and it probably deprives the officer of the brownie points she or he would have been hoping for from the local CHP captain. Since these are the motives for the practice, remove them.

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driving home last night, dark, on Guerneville Road, due to heavy rain and standing water, I had difficulty doing the 55 mph.

The speed limit is also governed by the road conditions. Even if a speed limit is 55 mph, the driver must conform to a speed that is safe for the conditions.

it is better to arrive home safely, without an accident (or a ticket)! Saves you time and money! :)