What will legalized marijuana mean? What will change?

:mj:

With possibility of marijuana being legalized this fall via Prop 19 just around the corner, have you stopped to think about how that will effect what life looks like around these parts?

One striking issue to me, which they are already trying to come to terms with up in Humboldt, is that it will turn a highly profitable crop, grown by many people in this community, into a commodity, that can be grown by anybody (using up to 25 sqft.). That's a major change in the economics! Oddly enough, I think the effect will be a drastic reduction of income from the crop's long time growers.

Music, visual and other sensual offerings will be more overtly cater to the stoner crowd and this may become as mainstream as alcohol.

What other changes to do you see coming and how do you feel about that??

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

:mj:

...have you stopped to think about how that (legalization) will effect what life looks like around these parts?...it will turn a highly profitable crop, grown by many people in this community, into a commodity...What other changes to do you see coming and how do you feel about that??

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Barry, My Main Man!

I've got news for you, it's already a commodity. Anything produced to be sold in a market, is.

As for the results? All I can say at the moment is. It's about f***ing time! (Although the poll results reported here today, do not bode well for Prop 19 passing.)

What a stupid war. Trying to stop people from ingesting an easily grown weed, to save them from themselves. No known serious side effects, other than respiratory tract distress, and paranoia, until one learns to maintain. The demotivating effects should not be dismissed either.

(Hint: Get a vaporiser. A good one, one that really works. Or eat it in moderation. Careful, it will sneak up on you.)

The article in today's NYT's about K-2, some noxious, dubious stuff that kids smoke back east, or wherever, because its advantage is that the synthetic cannabinols don't show up on a drug test? But any deleterious health effects have yet to be determined? What a fucking travesty!!! Talk about blowback from a restrictive security regime.

There are areas of our politics and culture where I'm totally down with the Libertarians. In general, it's called social issues.

Just watched a great "Masterpiece Mystery" on PBS, an Agatha Christie, Poirot episode, "Murder On The Orient Express". It raised interesting questions about Justice in the face of Evil. What should a community do, when the system fails? Brilliant!

Don't expect big changes soon. Given the recent raid on a medical pot plantation in Mendo, by the Feds, it won't be over even if Prop 19 passes. I'm not ready to predict a 21'st C. American (U.S.) Civil War over the right to get high. But it's not beyond the bounds of possibility down the road.

Eventually, I believe reason will prevail, and all this silliness over Marijuana will end. But I'm not holding my breath. When has reason determined history?

I predict it will be a nightmare to exit the state on our highways. Currently, most of our neighbor states don't even stop cars to ask for fruit declaration.

Now, with the likelihood of marijuana smuggling outside the state to dramatically increase, the borders of our neighbor states will get a lot tougher, probably stopping every car and sniffing with a drug-dog. This will probably lead to lots of arrests for minor users who are traveling interstate with a small personal supply.

Since its so readily available here already for medical use, they'd probably be targeting their own residents who just popped across the border for a little shopping. At some point they'll do the arithmetic themselves and find that that's a net cost (lost tax revenue plus cost of enforcement minus fines levied) and realize that prohibition doesn't work, never has, and join the legalization movement. Eventually it'll reach Washington DC and the totally disconnected legislators there will awake to find that the country has moved on without them.

I think more interesting is the "local option" - equivalent I suppose to the "dry" townships of some of the eastern states, where you have to drive to another town to buy booze, and of course there are liquor stores right across the township line. Will we see competitive taxing, similar to that between states?

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Posted in reply to the post by jryeo:

I predict it will be a nightmare to exit the state on our highways. ...This will probably lead to lots of arrests for minor users who are traveling interstate with a small personal supply.

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Environmental nightmare as well, in Humboldt Co. public lands and water being polluted and destroyed by growers who divert water and douse toxins everywhere to make a quick buck, no way to regulate or stop this.

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Posted in reply to the post by jryeo:

I predict it will be a nightmare to exit the state on our highways. ...with the likelihood of marijuana smuggling outside the state to dramatically increase, the borders of our neighbor states will get a lot tougher,..

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Latest Field poll shows this initiative won't pass. More Mafioso types still involved if it stays illegal here. More armed breakins into homes. I am more worried about people going to jail across the country for smoking pot. Shouldn't happen. I think everyone knows someone who smokes pot. Ask them - do you want to see your friend/family member in jail? If not, vote to pass legalization.

Sorry, A-Team, I disagree. I think legalization will be a huge benefit for our native ecosystems currently being degraded by renegade growers in the National Forests.

Legalization will not only reduce the risk of growing, but also the high-stakes rewards. Once every citizen can grow 25 square feet, there will be no cost-return for high dollar illegal operations on public lands.

Drug cartels and law enforcement oppose this legislation because it puts them both out of business!

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Posted in reply to the post by TheATeam:

Environmental nightmare as well, in Humboldt Co. public lands and water being polluted and destroyed by growers who divert water and douse toxins everywhere to make a quick buck, no way to regulate or stop this.

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I imagine anyone who has been making even a few thousand bucks a year on growing pot will loose money if it is legalized. Some would be willing to give it up, but many rely on it to maintain their lifestyles, make mortgage payments, etc.. The whole Northern California economy will take a hit, since logging is off, and there is not a lot of money, even in tourism.. marijuana growing and selling is probably one of the biggest and most successful businesses in the state! I predict some kind of sell off of remote lands in NorCal, if the owners can't make that extra money to cover the payments and taxes..

I think sending people to jail for personal use of pot is stupid, expensive, and regressive. (not that this is common around here, anymore, apparently). I think Cannabis has many, many valuable uses, including herbal medicine, fuel/lubricants, food, fabric, paper, and lots of other applications. (I eat cereal made with hemp, and wear yoga pants made with it) A lot of the opposition to hemp and medical marijuana probably comes from the industries that it might compete with.. such as pharmaceutical companies, paper companies, cotton and other fiber-producing crop companies, even oil companies might feel threatened: (I believe tanks were run on hemp oil, during one of the wars). I bet Monsanto would oppose it, as it requires less fertilizers and pesticides.. it's a hearty weed, after all..

That being said, I don't enjoy smoking it, (except on very rare occasions, and in very small amounts.. ), and I don't find heavy pot smokers easy to relate to.. or rely on. Of course, prohibition does not generally work as a deterrent. And there is a ton of money being spent on pot, and not taxed, while the infrastructure of California is in a deep financial crisis... It seems like some form of legalization/decriminalization, and taxation would make the most sense.. (obviously, taxation would only apply to retail/wholesale sales, not personal growing and use.. except for seeds, starter plants, supplies, etc. )

People that grow it for their personal use could stop being so paranoid and sneaky. People that need it for medical uses could grow or buy it without stigma or breaking the law, and stoners would maybe pay a little less, and hopefully tax dollars could help pull the schools out of financial collapse.. they are going to need money, because kids that smoke pot won't want to study much.. (you can argue, but I'm just speaking from personal observation as a parent.. ; ) Some money should go to drug education and diversion education programs. ANY drug can be over-used or abused..

I have my doubts that the puritan-ethic that infuses our culture will allow the pleasure-principle to win, this time, though.. ; )

Scott.

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Posted in reply to the post by jryeo:

Sorry, A-Team, I disagree. I think legalization will be a huge benefit for our native ecosystems currently being degraded by renegade growers in the National Forests.

Legalization will not only reduce the risk of growing, but also the high-stakes rewards. Once every citizen can grow 25 square feet, there will be no cost-return for high dollar illegal operations on public lands.

Drug cartels and law enforcement oppose this legislation because it puts them both out of business!

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IF it were to pass, I don't see things changing a lot.

People who live in the cities and don't have the space, time or desire to grow pot will still want to buy the best.

There will always be that market for high quality, special, new and interesting types that can be developed and grown by the experienced small time growers.

Prices for 'quality' product will probably stay a bit high. Growers will have to adjust their marketing and distribution a bit to stay in business.

Fear of the theft of plants and finished product will still exist.

Cartels will still grow it out in the vast empty north country and ship it east.

Local and state police will turn their attention away from pot issues for the most part, but the Feds may become more active.

But, who knows? Anything could happen.
I do hope it passes and that eventually the Feds see the light and stop the war. Hopey Changey : ))

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

With possibility of marijuana being legalized this fall via Prop 19 just around the corner, have you stopped to think about how that will effect what life looks like around these parts?

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Posted in reply to the post by Bryan:

Latest Field poll shows this initiative won't pass. More Mafioso types still involved if it stays illegal here. ... I think everyone knows someone who smokes pot. Ask them - do you want to see your friend/family member in jail? If not, vote to pass legalization.

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Bryan, I agree with you, except I would have said that here in west county everyone knows someone who doesn't smoke pot. Imagine at least dramatically reducing both the criminal element and the profit motive from the pot culture. Pretty soon it won't be any big deal. Over time we may even see usage drop. It just seems so silly for pot to be illegal. Of course, we live in an area that is at one end of the social and political spectrum, even by California standards. If the initiative fails I'll leave me just shaking my head. If it passes I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the federal government sues over an abridgement of superceding federal law, as happened in the Arizona illegal immigration statute. That will be a true test to see if Obama is a progressive or if the new boss is same as the old boss. If that happens, it will leave me shaking my head too.

hey Im liberal enough
Ive changed my life 2 or three times finding my self currently in college. Ive spent most of my life addicted to one thing or an other so I can relate maybe pot should be leagal because its so wide spread. just like prohabition was over turned. Although if you want to advocate for some thing know what its about. have you ever gotten desperate and cleaned your pipe or bong and smoked the resin? ( so you've at least seen it?right?)
well have you ever gotten oil based paint on your hand and it wont wash of with water? thats what happens when you burn- the fat souluable thc deposits in your brain clogging your synapse. so what I can still function- thats true! but its like starting an old f-100 pick up rrrrrrrr-hhhgggggg rrrrrrrhhhhhggg has trouble staying started and then after reving is running rough but started. runs fine!! then you start a new bmw rsssssssssss barely has to even try. so then you sat I can always stop later when want to take life sereously, ok . It takes your brain 2 years to disolve and get rid of all of that tar. it just makes me nervous to think of developing minds getting to a place where they can't fully wake up in their lives because pot is so common place. maybe if it was legal with education about it. it would be like if I gave you 10,000 dollars to put a band aid over one of your eyes for 2 years you might do it but you might come to regret that in about a year and a half.

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Posted in reply to the post by hales:

I imagine anyone who has been making even a few thousand bucks a year on growing pot will loose money if it is legalized. Some would be willing to give it up, but many rely on it to maintain their lifestyles, make mortgage payments, etc.. The whole Northern California economy will take a hit, since logging is off, and there is not a lot of money, even in tourism...I think sending people to jail for personal use of pot is stupid, expensive, and regressive. (not that this is common around here, anymore, apparently). I think Cannabis has many, many valuable uses, including herbal medicine, fuel/lubricants, food, fabric, paper, and lots of other applications. (I eat cereal made with hemp, and wear yoga pants made with it) A lot of the opposition to hemp and medical marijuana probably comes from the industries that it might compete with...That being said, I don't enjoy smoking it, (except on very rare occasions, and in very small amounts.. ), and I don't find heavy pot smokers easy to relate to.. or rely on. Of course, prohibition does not generally work as a deterrent. And there is a ton of money being spent on pot, and not taxed, while the infrastructure of California is in a deep financial crisis...People that grow it for their personal use could stop being so paranoid and sneaky. People that need it for medical uses could grow or buy it without stigma or breaking the law, and stoners would maybe pay a little less, and hopefully tax dollars could help pull the schools out of financial collapse.. they are going to need money, because kids that smoke pot won't want to study much.. (you can argue, but I'm just speaking from personal observation as a parent.. ; ) Some money should go to drug education and diversion education programs. ANY drug can be over-used or abused..

I have my doubts that the puritan-ethic that infuses our culture will allow the pleasure-principle to win, this time, though.. ; )

Scott.

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I'm not ready to predict a 21'st C. American (U.S.) Civil War over the right to get high. But it's not beyond the bounds of possibility down the road.

Actually, the first major threat to the US Constitution and the Federal government was "The Great Whiskey Rebellion." Hill folks had found a way out of their poverty by making good Whiskey and selling it widely. The Feds passed a law stating that Whiskey was to be taxed, especially in interstate commerce. The distillers decided to fight the Feds as they had the Brits. It got pretty bloody before the Feds overwhelmed their fellow countrymen (who fought for independence partially because of British tariffs (tax) on tea. BTW the law is why we have the ATF today.

Much of what you say is true, Scott. I agree that in our lifetime I would like to see cannabis legalized but this bill has a few repressive stipulations, i.e., it will be against the law to smoke in public places, like the beach - yeah, right...and with minors, like at home...more of the lies we tell our children..."Santa Claus is coming, so is the tooth fairy..." We are too puritanically based still, as you say, to see the good cannabis would do. Medicine, food, fuel, paper, clothing - I sell hemp clothes at the Sunday Market because I believe in the plant - we could be making plastics from hemp oil if we cultivated everywhere in the states, plastics that would biodegrade rather than end up floating around in the ocean or feeding sealife like the albatross, that's a truly sad story...No one has EVER died from cannabis overdose, but they sure have from alcohol, tobacco, tylenol, and a myriad of other 'drugs'. Of course, most people around here know this information. I will cc this to our governor...oh, right, he actually knows this stuff too, he's just too invested in the great white way. It was Harry Anslinger, in 1948, who told Congress that the reason we need to criminalize cannabis is that, "If our boys smoke this stuff, they won't want to fight our wars." Enough said.
Also, Sebastopolians need to pay attention to our city council's stand on growing outdoors...it won't happen if they have their way. Responsible use - for grown-ups, that's what that means, so it's time to grow up, adults; that's what we want. It's a very noble plant!

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Posted in reply to the post by jbox:

If it passes I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the federal government sues over an abridgement of superceding federal law, as happened in the Arizona illegal immigration statute.

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Highly doubtful, since Obama has instructed the federal authorities to leave local enforcement policy up to the states. It would be terribly difficult to sue a state successfully after having said that.

Now, if local growers are exporting out of the state, that's a total different deal.

Here's a great video comparing legal vs illegal marijuana:

YouTube - The Flower