Who Pays Taxes?

On the subject of who is or isn't allowed entry and citizenship in the fair country of ours-- who do you think is paying the taxes that support the schools and Medi-Cal? Certainly not 1/3 of the people on this site who are working half time to pay the rent and selling herb the rest of the time. What's going to happen to Sonoma County when marijuana is legalized? You'll all have to get real jobs and pay taxes like the rest of us. Humbolt is already planning ahead for a hit to the local economy. What's Sonoma going to do?

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Posted in reply to the post by Dark Shadows:

What's going to happen to Sonoma County when marijuana is legalized?

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You see a problem, I see opportunity. It's legal for people to brew beer, or make wine at home. Has this put any microbreweries or family wineries out of business? Nope.

It's just going to cut the price of pot down to what it really costs to grow it, not very much. It's a case of supply and demand. Right now, the growers have the advantage because not many people grow it and you are only supposed to grow limited quantities. If it's legalized, the crop could replace grapes in Sonoma County. Would that be freaky? It's already the major crop in Humbolt County. So it won't be long before we see bars like they have in Amsterdam with different types of pot on the menu. Except there the crop competes with hallucinogenic mushrooms which are sold in all the shops on the Leidisplane. Not a problem for me Jacko!

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Posted in reply to the post by Tars:

You see a problem, I see opportunity. It's legal for people to brew beer, or make wine at home. Has this put any microbreweries or family wineries out of business? Nope.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dark Shadows:

It's just going to cut the price of pot down to what it really costs to grow it, not very much.

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Tried making wine; not good at it. Same principle will apply to pot for many. If people want to smoke lowgrade pot, than by all means smoke your own. Most of the garage wine/beer I've tasted - yuccola. Same for pot. If you want quality taste and good high, without having to imbibe horrendous amounts of garbage, go to a quality indoor grower. Thought about becoming one, but it is just TOO involved and scientific for me. Pot growing is a craft. Like any craft, some are very skilled at it, most aren't.

One reason I can see why there will be a continued market for professionally grown and processed marijuana is because there'll be all those clueless 20-something people growing pot on their apartment balcony, all over Santa Rosa. In their cluelessness, a significant percentage of them won't be able to tell the difference between a male & female plant. One male plant can exude enough pollen to spoil plants over several tens of blocks at least.

After the initial attempts at growing fail to produce anything other than trash, most will just go back to getting it from a skilled grower (preferably), or from Marlboro or whichever.

Price will go down, certainmente. Outdoor growers? C-ya. But skilled marijuana horticulturalists will continue to be able to make a decent living at their craft.

It's not rocket science Tars, people have been growing it way before there was written language. They used methods handed down through the generations, and instinctual reasoning. Maybe you just don't have a green thumb, or the desire to nurture living things.

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Posted in reply to the post by Tars:

Tried making wine; not good at it. Same principle will apply to pot for many. If people want to smoke lowgrade pot, than by all means smoke your own. Most of the garage wine/beer I've tasted - yuccola. Same for pot. If you want quality taste and good high, without having to imbibe horrendous amounts of garbage, go to a quality indoor grower. Thought about becoming one, but it is just TOO involved and scientific for me. Pot growing is a craft. Like any craft, some are very skilled at it, most aren't.

One reason I can see why there will be a continued market for professionally grown and processed marijuana is because there'll be all those clueless 20-something people growing pot on their apartment balcony, all over Santa Rosa. In their cluelessness, a significant percentage of them won't be able to tell the difference between a male & female plant. One male plant can exude enough pollen to spoil plants over several tens of blocks at least.

After the initial attempts at growing fail to produce anything other than trash, most will just go back to getting it from a skilled grower (preferably), or from Marlboro or whichever.

Price will go down, certainmente. Outdoor growers? C-ya. But skilled marijuana horticulturalists will continue to be able to make a decent living at their craft.

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[quote=Dark Shadows;115938] It's not rocket science Tars, people have been growing it way before there was written language.[quote]

Yeah, and they had the same trash as gave their ancestors coughing fits. By the way, the genetic equivalent of "rocket science" in pot growing/production has increased the THC content by about 2000% - from roughly 2% good ol' ancestral pot, to over 20%. THC content today. Very doubtful many balcony growers will get that level of production. production. If they want truly TRULY fine bud quality, they'll go to the indoor pros.

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They used methods handed down through the generations, and instinctual reasoning.

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Aw...that's just awfully quaintly cute....baloney. From your....simple perspective I'm guessing I've been around it longer and more than you, so have a more realistic picture of marijuana production over the last several decades.

By the way, I've smoked outdoor weed from all over Sebastopol, Sonoma County, and northern California, some of that was some of the best outdoor weed in the world.. It just doesn't measure up ti indoor, sorry. Most especially pot grown by the clueless..

By the way, if there are any readers of this thread who can stick with it beyond the good ol' timey-methods-are-good-enough-for-me stuff, hope you keep following. Right now is a real good time to consider the entrepeneurial opportunities presented by the coming legalization. Most of those balcony growers will be wanting clones, to at least give themselves a chance at THC. potency. They'll be very open to any outlet aside from the ripoff "dispensaries". They'll buy clones from any source from a flea market booth to a storefront, to internet drop shipments that provides a fair price.

Do you have a talent for cooking/baking/food production? THC consummables are going to be a huge market in the coming years. Heh..and just wait 'til other states start following CA's lead! Do you have or plan to open a coffee/tea/liquid refreshment shop? Excellent opportunities there. There's major cash to be made out there, friends. Help put those stinkin' money grubbing "caregiver dispensaries" out of business.

Oh, you've been around longer and more than me? Well then you'd probably know that the best way to use marijuana is not by "smoking" it, but to inhale the vapors through a vaporizor. Nobody in their right mind would smoke it, you are then more apt to injure the delicate tissue of your respiratory tract. Unless you've already damaged it beyone repair by smoking tobacco. Also, it is not necessarily THC content that most people who use it for medicinal purposes are after. It is the gentle effect that they are after, to relieve pain, nausea and promote an appetite. If it was only the THC they were after, they could get a prescription for synthetic marijuana (marinol). Neiner, neiner, neiner. [quote=Tars;115943][quote=Dark Shadows;115938] It's not rocket science Tars, people have been growing it way before there was written language.

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Yeah, and they had the same trash as gave their ancestors coughing fits. By the way, the genetic equivalent of "rocket science" in pot growing/production has increased the THC content by about 2000% - from roughly 2% good ol' ancestral pot, to over 20%. THC content today. Very doubtful many balcony growers will get that level of production. production. If they want truly TRULY fine bud quality, they'll go to the indoor pros.

Aw...that's just awfully quaintly cute....baloney. From your....simple perspective I'm guessing I've been around it longer and more than you, so have a more realistic picture of marijuana production over the last several decades.

By the way, I've smoked outdoor weed from all over Sebastopol, Sonoma County, and northern California, some of that was some of the best outdoor weed in the world.. It just doesn't measure up ti indoor, sorry. Most especially pot grown by the clueless..

By the way, if there are any readers of this thread who can stick with it beyond the good ol' timey-methods-are-good-enough-for-me stuff, hope you keep following. Right now is a real good time to consider the entrepeneurial opportunities presented by the coming legalization. Most of those balcony growers will be wanting clones, to at least give themselves a chance at THC. potency. They'll be very open to any outlet aside from the ripoff "dispensaries". They'll buy clones from any source from a flea market booth to a storefront, to internet drop shipments that provides a fair price.

Do you have a talent for cooking/baking/food production? THC consummables are going to be a huge market in the coming years. Heh..and just wait 'til other states start following CA's lead! Do you have or plan to open a coffee/tea/liquid refreshment shop? Excellent opportunities there. There's major cash to be made out there, friends. Help put those stinkin' money grubbing "caregiver dispensaries" out of business.

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"...In their cluelessness, a significant percentage of them won't be able to tell the difference between a male & female plant. One male plant can exude enough pollen to spoil plants over several tens of blocks at least..."

I keep imagining that male plants will be next on the endangered species and facing extinction list.

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Posted in reply to the post by Dark Shadows:

On the subject of who is or isn't allowed entry and citizenship in the fair country of ours-- who do you think is paying the taxes that support the schools and Medi-Cal? Certainly not 1/3 of the people on this site who are working half time to pay the rent and selling herb the rest of the time. What's going to happen to Sonoma County when marijuana is legalized? You'll all have to get real jobs and pay taxes like the rest of us. Humbolt is already planning ahead for a hit to the local economy. What's Sonoma going to do?

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I think even the people that are selling pot part time or w/e are still paying taxes, one way or another you will always pay taxes. I honestly do not think there are very many people on the street selling pot, most people stick to the clubs. Do you know how much a good old pot habit can cost? Sorry not a habit for a person with a part time job.

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Posted in reply to the post by Krunk:

I think even the people that are selling pot part time or w/e are still paying taxes, one way or another you will always pay taxes. I honestly do not think there are very many people on the street selling pot, most people stick to the clubs. Do you know how much a good old pot habit can cost? Sorry not a habit for a person with a part time job.

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One more thing, the reason this county is in so much trouble financially is because we send all our money to other countries. Around 100 years ago most of our ancestors where farmers, then we sent all the farms over seas. Then we where all about industry, then we sent that over seas. then we became consumers, then we sent that over seas. now people migrate here with what is a little money in there country and buy businesses here and huge houses cause there money is worth more here. We are a third world country, immigrants come here and make money and send it home to there families so they can spend it in there communities. There are kids getting out of high school that wont be able to find a part time job at Starbucks till they are 25 years old cause someone that was not born here already got the job. Kids are living at home longer cause there are no jobs, none can afford to send kids to college. I see so many things that are killing us right now, and none is ever going to do anything about it.

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Posted in reply to the post by Krunk:

One more thing, the reason this county is in so much trouble financially is because we send all our money to other countries. Around 100 years ago most of our ancestors where farmers, then we sent all the farms over seas. Then we where all about industry, then we sent that over seas. then we became consumers, then we sent that over seas. now people migrate here with what is a little money in there country and buy businesses here and huge houses cause there money is worth more here. We are a third world country, immigrants come here and make money and send it home to there families so they can spend it in there communities. There are kids getting out of high school that wont be able to find a part time job at Starbucks till they are 25 years old cause someone that was not born here already got the job. Kids are living at home longer cause there are no jobs, none can afford to send kids to college. I see so many things that are killing us right now, and none is ever going to do anything about it.

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you can't trust "what you see" because the world's a lot bigger place than your neighborhood. For example, "sending all our money overseas" ??? The US is one of the smallest contributors (unless you mean our military). I won't even link to a chart of real government spending since you may distrust my source - but look it up yourself. You're looking at all the wrong places for the cause of what's wrong.
The most significant change over the last 30 years is in the disparity between the richest and the poorest in this country. The difference between poor immigrants and unemployed 'native' citizens is nothing compared to that. But you can't "see" it because the wealthy aren't spending their money where you notice it (or them). So most people think "the rich" are celebrities or athletes (who they also don't actually "see"). But try to wrap your head around the idea that Bill Gates' worth is about the same as the gross national income of New Zealand. ANY expenditure is 'chump change' to someone like that. If you think someone's rich who has a couple of vacation homes, realize he could liquidate some of his assets and pay the mortgage of every home in New Zealand! When you say the "country is in trouble financially" you have to realize that not everyone sees it that way. It's working just great for some. It has to be a deliberate choice for a nation to have an economy that provides work for all its people. I don't know how you get from "we sent all the xxx overseas" to blaming immigrants rather than those who do the sending. Part of that 'we' is you and me choosing to spend money on cheaper goods rather than those coming from local farms or factories. What people don't realize is that they're spending less cash, but they're invisibly paying an intangible cost by allowing the standards of living for everyone in this country to decline - and we're allowing a small handful of middlemen to extract immense wealth because they can exploit these narrow channels of production.

Okay, just a little background, I am 32, I have lived in over 10 states, I have 2 kids. Saying that I cannot see past my own neighborhood is BS. I think that having hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming into our country ever year and taking money back to there countries and spending it there hurts us as a country. If you cannot see why your just plain ignorant.

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Posted in reply to the post by Krunk:

... Saying that I cannot see past my own neighborhood is BS. I think that having hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming into our country ever year and taking money back to there countries and spending it there hurts us as a country. If you cannot see why your just plain ignorant.

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Mr. Krunk,

Calling the people who disagree with you "just plain ignorant", is not a respectful way to express your disagreement. Please do not do it in your discussions on waccobb.net. It is a violation of the respectful, conscious guidelines for participation on this board.

Miles Mendenhall, One of the volunteer moderators on waccobb.net.

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Posted in reply to the post by Krunk:

... I think that having hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming into our country ever year and taking money back to there countries and spending it there hurts us as a country. If you cannot see why your just plain ignorant.

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numbers from a conservative, anti-immigrant website: "while Mexicans living in the United States send home more than $8 billion annually". A video game company, Activision, has about $8 billion annual revenues. If it disappeared from the earth, I doubt you'd notice.
Sure it hurts "the country", a little... but it's a distraction. I'm not talking specificially about your attitudes, anyway, Krunk, since you haven't given any context. But there's a lot of people who fit F. Scott Fitzgerald's definition of having a first-rate intelligence by holding two opposing ideas at the same time. They seem to feel that our government is borderline oppressive and should back off, at the same time they want a government crackdown on illegal immigrants that can only be sustained in what I'd call a police state.
I repeat my point - there's not enough jobs because our economy doesn't make it a priority to create jobs. It rewards people for finding ways to run their businesses without incurring the cost of any more employees than is absolutely necessary. When potential employees agree that it's unfair to an employer that he should be required to pay living wages, you can tell that our culture has adopted self-destructive ethical attitudes. It only works if people are like those in Lake Woebegone - all above average, so they'll be the ones who win out in a fair competition. Lots of people seem to feel that they'd succeed except for the unfair advantages (???) that illegals have, and sympathize with businesses and the wealthy who are being robbed by the government of the fruits of their honest labor. They see no irony in that at all.
One of the most depressing things I've heard recently was a report by Robert Reich where he pointed out that Obama's admittedly cynical adoption of tax-credits for businesses will enable them to increase automation faster than they would have otherwise - thus increasing unemployment. But it's a smart play considering the alternative is likely extension of the Bush tax cuts, which would be even more destructive.

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

Calling the people who disagree with you "just plain ignorant", is not a respectful way to express your disagreement.

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thanks, Miles, but since his full quote was "If you cannot see why your just plain ignorant." I think his grammar kinda makes it unnecessary to respond.

You're welcome Podfish,

I, of course, noticed the misspelling and syntax fail. I was attempting to apply the "charity principle" in internet bulletin board culture. Something my friend Fred Dolan introduced here a couple of years ago, before he was run off by the general tenor and content of many of the discussions here.

That said, I find myself once again appreciating the rationality and information that you provide here on a consistent and patient basis. Thank you!

A note for everyone reading this thread, and participating on it, its initiator revealed itself to be a troll, as time and behavior manifested.

Here's a topic for someone's Ph.D. thesis on the culture of internet discussions. The contributions of trolling, how provocation can sometimes create meaning, in spite of the intentions behind it, or perhaps because of those intentions, the paradox of provocation and dissimilitude, as an unintentional consequence of anonymity.

Just cite me as a reference!

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Posted in reply to the post by "Mad" Miles:

Mr. Krunk,

Calling the people who disagree with you "just plain ignorant", is not a respectful way to express your disagreement. Please do not do it in your discussions on waccobb.net. It is a violation of the respectful, conscious guidelines for participation on this board.

Miles Mendenhall, One of the volunteer moderators on waccobb.net.

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Now, just a minute. Telling someone that "the world is bigger than your neighborhood" is pretty snarky and condescending and so is making fun of their spelling and grammar.

[QUOTE="Mad" Miles;121575]Mr. Krunk,

Calling the people who disagree with you "just plain ignorant", is not a respectful way to express your disagreement. Please do not do it in your discussions on waccobb.net. It is a violation of the respectful, conscious guidelines for participation on this board.

Miles Mendenhall, One of the volunteer moderators on waccobb.net.

[/QUxxOTE]

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Posted in reply to the post by meherc:

Now, just a minute. Telling someone that "the world is bigger than your neighborhood" is pretty snarky and condescending and so is making fun of their spelling and grammar.

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I agree with your first point a little, at least. My comment was intended to point out that I find his post expresses a naive viewpoint, based on limited perception of the forces that are in play. I doubt that can be said without at least a little condescension. I post enough things myself that express naive points of view, I'm sure, and it's a bit embarassing to get called out on them.
Personally, I don't really believe any public forum can be all that warm, fuzzy and universally accepting; I didn't mind being called ignorant ignorantly. Especially when there was no evidence attached to defend that observation.
If you don't find it amusing that a charge of ignorance is being made in a way that intrinsically refudiates it, I'm sorry; I did....