Can the County confiscate your property?
I have just heard of two people who believe they are in imminent danger of losing their land and houses, because the county has found unpermitted structures on the land, and is set to impose ruinous fines. Neither owner would be able to afford the fines, and so the County has threatened to take their property. This seems outrageous, since the amount being imposed ($8,000 in one case, $50,000 in the other) is only about 2-3% of the market value. Sounds like a ripoff to me, since the County, like everyone else, is scrabbling for money.
So, does anyone know: Can the County confiscate your property? I have been told this is a bluff, and I do hope that's correct.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by comodin:
I have just heard of two people who believe they are in imminent danger of losing their land and houses, because the county has found unpermitted structures on the land, and is set to impose ruinous fines. Neither owner would be able to afford the fines, and so the County has threatened to take their property. This seems outrageous, since the amount being imposed ($8,000 in one case, $50,000 in the other) is only about 2-3% of the market value. Sounds like a ripoff to me, since the County, like everyone else, is scrabbling for money.
So, does anyone know: Can the County confiscate your property? I have been told this is a bluff, and I do hope that's correct.
Hi there. I am a certified (BBB&AAA) arbitrator and without knowing all the particulars of the case (infractions,code violations, health and safety issues) I am unable to render my two cents worth.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by comodin:
So, does anyone know: Can the County confiscate your property? I have been told this is a bluff, and I do hope that's correct.
not only can they confiscate it. you can watch while they try to sell it at auction -
2008 Public Auction of Tax-Defaulted Property - Treasurer-Tax Collector - County of Sonoma, California
that website lists the results of the 2008 Sonoma County auction. for most of the properties, the people who had been threatened with default etc. ended up paying the taxes at the last minute and the properties were withdrawn from the auction.
as far as the properties you're concerned about - it sounds like it's too early in the process to even use the term, "tax default".
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
Yes, I went all thru this and eventually had to sell my sweet country property of 20 years as a result. John Knott helps people get thru these things and was able to get my fine and fees reduces dramatically. His number was 823-8158. There are other people who do this for a living who are probably better but I don't know who. He charges a sizable fee but given the hours he puts into it, doesn't come out to much hourly and it was more than worth it in my case.
Dan Cahill at the Sonoma County PRMD (permit department) is brutal, mean spirited and clearly did not care about me or my home but had plenty of job security. Hopefully you have a different inspector. Honestly it will not surprise me at all the day I read in the papers that someone (not me) has gone postal in that office they are so exasperating.
I hope your friends' experience is better than mine was but be prepared.
IF your friends' non-conforming buildings were built in the 60's they may be able to be grandfathered in but if they were built after that period, as mine was, they have to be brought up to today's building codes. Very expensive. In retrospect I should have just torn the whole cottage down and not paid all of the permitting fees to the county. I had no idea what I was in for and it just kept going and going and costing and costing. That is something your friend should definitely consider.
Have them contact me if I can give them any other info. No one should have to go thru what I went thru with the county. I will never buy property under the Sonoma county jurisdiction again. Ever!
ONE MORE THING, there are a lot of non-conforming (unpermitted) structures in west county. The county needs money now and it is my understanding that they are actively looking for them to red-tag. At least now they can't do it anonymously as they could when mine was tagged. So just beware.
My heart is with your friends.
Jane
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by comodin:
I have just heard of two people who believe they are in imminent danger of losing their land and houses, because the county has found unpermitted structures on the land, and is set to impose ruinous fines. Neither owner would be able to afford the fines, and so the County has threatened to take their property. This seems outrageous, since the amount being imposed ($8,000 in one case, $50,000 in the other) is only about 2-3% of the market value. Sounds like a ripoff to me, since the County, like everyone else, is scrabbling for money.
So, does anyone know: Can the County confiscate your property? I have been told this is a bluff, and I do hope that's correct.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
The county is responding with concern for their presumed constituents who wish to maintain the value of their property and the zoning which has been put into place by general consensus.
How responsive local government is to emergency conditions should reveal those who should keep their positions.
Wouldn't that be nice if those who hold property decided to have a higher concern than their property values and publish by name those who have this brutal side to their nature.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by comodin:
I have just heard of two people who believe they are in imminent danger of losing their land and houses, because the county has found unpermitted structures on the land, and is set to impose ruinous fines. Neither owner would be able to afford the fines, and so the County has threatened to take their property. This seems outrageous, since the amount being imposed ($8,000 in one case, $50,000 in the other) is only about 2-3% of the market value. Sounds like a ripoff to me, since the County, like everyone else, is scrabbling for money.
So, does anyone know: Can the County confiscate your property? I have been told this is a bluff, and I do hope that's correct.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
They need to consult a real estate lawyer. I believe the county can place a lien on the property like a property tax. If people are late paying property tax, the county can eventually sejze the property and sell it. I assume the lien goes through the same process. In general, this will not happen if they work with the county to work out a payment plan. For any other similar lien from the government, it is a serious matter that should be dealt with. I have seen though that seizures can be delayed for several years if not longer by working with the county tax collector. Most people who owe taxes take out property loans to cover these bills where their property is worth way more than the bill.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
I believe that the County should condemn and red tag properties that are not up to code. On the other hand, they should also relax the codes somewhat to allow people to build in a safe manner without breaking the bank.
Case in point. I wanted to build a detached garage structure on my rural property. The cost of the structure was in the mid 20's range. It was to be used to store garden equipment and tools. The County required 8" of concrete, which was ridiculous, and also required that I put a water storage tank in the front of my property with a fire hydrant attached. I contacted the fire department and was told that this requirement was a waste because they would never hook up to it because of the iron content in unfiltered water in the area.
With unnecessary costs attached to the building my 25k project turned into a 45k project and was scrapped. The contractor and his employees lost wages, the local lumber co lost sales and the county lost permit money and additional property tax revenue.
I found a fabric 22'x24' temporary building on the web and built it myself for around 2k. It works fine and doesn't require a permit because it is temporary. Unreasonable county rules cost everyone.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
I am a licensed contractor and last year was at Contractor's seminar with S.C. Building Officials where we fielded questions to them.
Their latest claim is that if an Inspector is requested to look at a property regarding permit acquisition, that they have been instructed to not take notice of illegal structures or previous work done without permits unless there are very obvious health and safety issues. Believe it? Who knows.....As the story goes, they say this policy will get folks to do new work up to code.
For many years it has been policy for PRMD (Permit & Resource Management Dept) to not only require red tagged structures, or work done without permits to be fined 7-10 times the cost of what the original permit would have cost and then bring the structure up to current codes. Sometimes the fine is negotiable. The longer one waits to address code issues the more difficult compliance becomes, as they change every few years, especially here in earthquake country.
Before 1960 there were no building codes. When a home is improved then it is expected to have the improvements built to active codes.
Is it affordable? Yes to many and impossible for many as well.
My rule of thumb is if you want to do a project without permits don't increase the size of the building envelope or be prepared for the consequences when you go to sell. This is especially important if you are on septic systems.
If you choose to go without permits for whatever reason, then hire a licensed contractor and licensed structural engineer who know the codes. In case you are busted in the future, it will be much easier to deal with the local jurisdiction.
BTW, many folks are turned into authorities by their neighbors. A few years ago S.C. Planning Commission determined that complaints could no longer be anonymous and the plaintiff's would be public info.
Al
www.the-homewrecker.com
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Andy3:
I believe that the County should condemn and red tag properties that are not up to code. On the other hand, they should also relax the codes somewhat to allow people to build in a safe manner without breaking the bank.
Case in point. I wanted to build a detached garage structure on my rural property. The cost of the structure was in the mid 20's range. It was to be used to store garden equipment and tools. The County required 8" of concrete, which was ridiculous, and also required that I put a water storage tank in the front of my property with a fire hydrant attached. I contacted the fire department and was told that this requirement was a waste because they would never hook up to it because of the iron content in unfiltered water in the area.
With unnecessary costs attached to the building my 25k project turned into a 45k project and was scrapped. The contractor and his employees lost wages, the local lumber co lost sales and the county lost permit money and additional property tax revenue.
I found a fabric 22'x24' temporary building on the web and built it myself for around 2k. It works fine and doesn't require a permit because it is temporary. Unreasonable county rules cost everyone.
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
A homeowner (and only a homeowner or someone with written permission from the homeowner) can go to the Assessor's office and read about the structures on their property.
My parents did this and discovered the existing buildings on their property were built in the early 1930's and 1950's.
It is my understanding the standard is "...in good working order and repair and up to code at the time of installation..."
Permits and Resource Management (PRMD) for Sonoma County did not exist until sometime circa 1963; hence, any buildings built prior to then could not have been built with permits because no agency existed to issue the permits (for unincorporated Sonoma County parcels).
Still a variety of building calibers existed then -- as they do now.
A building built with true dimensional redwood timber harvested in the 1930s is probably more structurally sound than present day 2x4 fir structures.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Alfonz:
"...Before 1960 there were no building codes. When a home is improved then it is expected to have the improvements built to active codes..."
Re: Can the County confiscate your property?
The lien placed on the property for Code Violations does not result in property siezure. But, it will affect whether or not the property can qualify for loans - and penalties can end up accruing daily. This can greatly affect the value of the property.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Bryan:
They need to consult a real estate lawyer. I believe the county can place a lien on the property like a property tax. If people are late paying property tax, the county can eventually sejze the property and sell it. I assume the lien goes through the same process. In general, this will not happen if they work with the county to work out a payment plan. For any other similar lien from the government, it is a serious matter that should be dealt with. I have seen though that seizures can be delayed for several years if not longer by working with the county tax collector. Most people who owe taxes take out property loans to cover these bills where their property is worth way more than the bill.
