What *is *the *Nature* {& Gender}* of * "GOD" ?
Please post your thoughts
on this, most weighty,
yet Lightest of All
Matters Here:
the lines are open...
Printable View
What *is *the *Nature* {& Gender}* of * "GOD" ?
Please post your thoughts
on this, most weighty,
yet Lightest of All
Matters Here:
the lines are open...
God does not exist.
The truth is more often simpler than we care to recognize.
;-)
To deny divinty is not poss8ble for me, the trees, the earth speak to me. When i walk in the realtm of my kinds words, and actions, i cringe and cower at the cruelty. I can hardly write, for god.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Valley Oak:
https://waccobb.net/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Mayacaman wrote: https://www.waccobb.net/forums/image...post-right.png
I find the third chapter of St. Paul’s Epistle to the Colossians to be of great help in this regard. It supplies a window to the overview. –As does the following little logion left us by the Apostle who heard from the Lord on the Isle of Patmos: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/3-21.htm
Star Man wrote:
Quote:
The only gospel I trust is the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, the only gospel written by someone who actually knew Jesus. Magdalene knew Jesus well because she was married to him and had his baby. She moved to the south of France where she established the Church of the Black Madonna.
Well, Star Man, Not to play the game "More Orthodox than Thou," nevertheless, I do accept the Christian Canon, as it has been preserved down to the present - and I don't prefer any of the non-canonical "gospels." I will confess that I have some (one or two) "Gnostic tendencies" but it is within the Canon itself (i.e., Matthew, Mark, Luke & John, et cetera) that I see vestiges of evidence that first century Christianity was something of a "mystery religion."
My concession to the Goddess Gals is the recognition of "SOPHIA" {aka, "Hochma", Wisdom) as the "Third Person" of what is spoken of in "Christendom" as the "Holy Trinity." In actuality, perhaps, it would be more appropriate to think of Her as the "Second Person" and to see "GOD" as a Father/Mother Unity with the Logos as the "firstborn" Fruit of this Union. All this goes back into Eternity, Past time.
Thus (in my way of reckoning) there is a Yin / Yang Unity in the Godhead. The Logos - which is generated out of the Father/Mother Oneness in the bosom of the Universe from Eternity - is the One who descended from Heaven at various moments in Biblical Time, in the received account, and - as "Jehovah" - made appearances to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; to Moses, David & the various Hebrew prophets.
I have been called a "heretic" because I believe that the "Dao" of sixth century, B.C. Taoisn is identical with the "Logos" of Christianity. But here is my concession to Orthodoxy: In the Person of Yahshua Ha' Messiach, {Jesus Christ) the Logos tabernacled in the flesh. He also ascended into Heaven and sits at the "Right hand of Power" on high. So much has been revealed to me, from my adolescence.
The above is just a bare outline of what I have come to believe. There is More - which I can flesh out in the course of this dialog.
"God" is a construct of human beings so terrified of death and of the Mystery of existence that they have created a false rationale for eternal life and a fairy tale to relieve them of their terror. "God" has no gender and "God" does not exist.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Star Man
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:
What does exist is conscience, which is the part of us that we all share as one. From conscience came thought and the question was, who can I become? Our soul never dies, it transforms. We are here to realize that we need to go within and look at ourselves in order to understand the real meaning of existence here on earth. By transforming ourselves we can transform the civilizations that we all have created. By looking outside of ourselves and blaming others for the problems that exist on earth is what has caused all of the crisis we have experienced, including this one. We did not come here to suffer, we came here to learn and experience what love is. It is every humans responsibility to learn for ourselves what our purpose is. The hardest thing to do is to really look at ourselves very deeply. That's why most of us do not know what our purpose is. If we don't do something to change our destruction of earth, she will force us in ways that she is now. This is the time to look at ourselves. We are not separate, we are all one conscience. The earth is a living being, as is all things living here with her. So you can call it Conscience, God, Goddess, Source, Universe, etc. it doesn't matter they are all the same, and are female and male. Religion is one of the things that blocks us from seeing our true selves. We all need to learn what it truly means to have passion for compassion.
Thank you Becky Lynn for your thoughtful response. I use the word "consciousness" for what you call "conscience." I am in complete agreement with what you write. Gratefully, Star ManQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:
Thank you Star Man for your gratitude. 😋 I get the 2 spellings of the word conscious and conscience mixed up sometimes. Both are similar in meaning, although I do prefer the spelling of yours. As it relates better to what I'm saying, and that is awareness of self. Where as conscience is more about knowledge which is limited by time. When we are coherent with our spirits,souls,and bodies the world will be in balance and harmony.
I disagree with that , Star Man. "GOD" would exist without us - and without the "Creation" as we know it. for "GOD" is the Self-existent Eternal One. That much is contained in the letters of the Name in Hebrew - יְהוָ֗ה - and I think that the Hebrews were on to something.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:
Furthermore, it is written : "Seek and you shall find" - and of Wisdom (SOPHIA) it is written : "...those that seek Me early shall find Me"... If you believe that "GOD" does not exist, Star Man, it is simply because you have not sought for the Pearl {Wisdom} with your whole heart.
By the terms of Modern, Cartesian Science, I can boldly state that I Know that "GOD" exists, for I have experienced the presence of "GOD" (sense of touch) - and also Seen Him in a waking vision (sense of sight) - and also heard Him in my inner ear (sense of hearing.)
One difference between you and me Mayacaman is that I know when I'm talking to someone whose mind is made up and who will not change. I will tell you that my mind is made up and I will not change my beliefs about whether "God" exists or not. I do not believe you will change your beliefs about the existence of "God." Now, here is the core difference between us: Knowing that your mind is made up and you will not change, I choose not to discuss the existence of "God" with you. However, you continue to send me citations and references, none of which will affect my knowing and my belief. So stop. Just stop. Please. My only recourse will be to block you if you send me one more reference, citation, or argument for the existence of "God." I am as happy with my beliefs as I am certain you are with yours. Blessings to you. Star ManQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
That which you call “conscience” Becky Lynn, is also called by other names. The still small voice within is the voice of “GOD” within us –Our Guide-who strives with us to lead us in the right direction(s).Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
Grass doesn’t have to be led; it has nowhere to go. Yet the grass and the flowers also have the presence on “GOD” within them. For “GOD” is the very Life of the grass.
Religious Orthodoxy in Amerika has always argued that to see the Immanence of God in this manner is the same as ‘pantheism’ or ‘paganism.’ But it is not; for God is the Life of the grass – even as He is Our Life.
Still, it is folly to deny the “God who is above." Did you know that there is a magnificent “Wormhole” in the center of Our Galaxy? It has recently been discovered. Here is what it looks like: One may well wonder Who or What is on the far side of this…
Mayacaman,Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
I really get that your mind is made up and you will not change. I have no desire, none, to try and change your mind. However, I just don't want to contaminate my awareness any further with your foolishness. This post to Becky Lynn really finished me with you. I had sent a message telling you I would block you if you continued with you proselytizing. I respect your beliefs. I just don't want to have them intrude on my Wacco page any more. So, I wish you well. I am respectfully blocking you. Good bye.
You may 'block' me if you wish, Star Man. That is totally your option. But still, I shall post on this thread -since I am the one who initiated it- and I reserve the right to state and/or cite anything that comes into my mind to say. You are free to cease from posting on this thread, also, Star Man, since you have nothing more to say about the "existence" of "GOD." Blessings to You, also. -Marko
You have my word that I will never post on this thread again. Thank you for your blessings. Star ManQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Add my blessings. To dispute the exsistenst of divinity is always an exercise for me, because I see beyond rationality, while appreciating it. The exsistenst of paradox is difficult. And the essenst of wisdom. When someone says to me, let's agree to disagree, I feel sad. The truth of curiosity is not cutting off communication.
Thad wrote:
"Interesting connections between The Gospel of Mary Magdalene, The Cathars, Eleanor of Aquitaine, and the Albigensian Crusade's attempt to wipe out this challenge to the last vestige of the Roman Empire.
I often wonder why the vitriol towards a doctrine that would produce such outcomes and what life would be if it were these values that were heralded as Christian behavior.
Excerpt from Anne Barings website on Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Courts of Love
"The Courts of Love were established in the twelfth century by Eleanor of Aquitaine and her daughter, Marie in different towns in France. But they were particularly famous in the Languedoc where Eleanor was a daughter of Duke William of Aquitaine, himself a renowned troubadour. When she was married to the king of France, Eleanor established their Court at Poitiers. These Courts gave women a social position and a role apart from that of wife and mother. Here women were queens presiding over Courts where philosophy, poetry and literature could flourish; where the relationship between man and woman, and between man, woman and God could be explored in a context that celebrated life and the aspirations of both genders. Husbands who listened to troubadours singing the praises of the beauty and intelligence of their wives began to look at them with new eyes and pay more attention to their own appearance and their manners. The code of courtly values that grew up here is summed up in the words Pretz et Paradge which can be translated as high ideals, the courage to honour and serve them, a gracious presence and impeccable courtesy, particularly towards women, as well as the ability to compose poetry and play an instrument.
note: It was Eleanor of Aquitaine who introduced the Grail legends into her court at Poitiers and later, in England when she married Henry 11. She may have commissioned Chrétien de Troyes to write the story of Parsifal. (source: Laurence Gardner, The Legacy of Mary Magdalene and The Grail Enigma)
Until these Courts appeared to offer a different view of her, woman was presented to society by the Catholic Church as a lewd, wicked, treacherous creature, fatally flawed by the sin of Eve, whose destiny was to be ruled by her husband and to serve him in the same way and on a similar contractual basis, as the medieval vassal served his overlord. Following the instructions of St. Paul, she was to keep silent. How different is the image of woman seen through the eyes of the troubadours and indeed, the Grail legends, where the Feminine Archetype is portrayed as the actual goal of the Quest, as well as the guiding spirit of it. What a contrast there is between woman as a chattel to be disposed of by her husband, or woman as temptress and sinner, and woman as the inspiration of a renaissance of spiritual devotion and the celebration of art, poetry and beauty and the ecstatic enjoyment of life. The troubadours freed sexuality and eroticism from guilt and freed both man and woman to follow a spiritual path without renouncing the body or the enjoyment of life and human relationships...."
*******Thad, In the first place one must reckon with the distinction between "authentic, first century" Christianity - and what became known as "Roman Catholicism" after that unfortunate "vision" that the soon-to-be Emperor Constantine had just prior to the battle of the Milvian Bridge in 312, A.D./C.E. -Because they are two different kettle of fish.
And when the womnfolk speak of the how the "patriarchy" co-opted "Christianity" let me put a date on it: 312, A.D. -For that was when the Roman Oligarchy, aka, the Roman Senatorial families, through their front-man, Constantine, gave the kiss of death to what had previously been a problematic, underground, & suppressed religion. The operative motto, being, "If you can't beat 'em Join 'em."{or co-opt them.)
When I was in Rome in early 1984, staying in a Hostel after my initial night wandering around the town, I took the Tour of the Vatican. I was there all day. I started out at eight o'clock and was there until closing time when they had to sweep me out of the place. Midway through the tour, We came upon a Chamber that goes by the name "Constantine Room." It was there that I had an Epiphany.
Spirit spoke to me and told me to stay in the Room until I "got" it. So I did. I let the English-speaking Tour Guide & the Group I had been accompanying since eight a.m. pass on by. I stayed in the Room and listened to the Guides with all of the other tongues talk. I stared at the frescoes on the four walls and the ceiling; all done by the School of Rafael. I was there for about three hours. I got it.
What I got was this: in a nutshell: Sometime in or around the 290's (A.D.) the Roman Senatorial families were beginning to see the writing on the wall. They realized that they could not keep the Roman Empire together indefinitely. The Barbarians were at the gates, & the lead was in the pipes [they didn't know about that part.]
So they held a series of meetings - clandestine; not in the Senate, but in their Villas - to discuss what to do to cope with the inevitable debacle of the 'Fall' that was impending - and how to prolong the power of their bloodlines and families on into the uncertain future they were all facing...
Some bright Senator at one of these conferences came up with the bright Idea of co-opting the Christian Church, and turning it into the vehicle of the State. In the future, they would fan out from Rome and occupy the citadels of Northern Italy. Their elder sons would be called Dukes and their younger sons would be called Cardinals. Thus they could still convene as they had of old, in the Senate.
What was the result of all this? The wheels of the Roman gods turned slowly, but they turned surely. Less that twenty years later, the Senators found their man in Constantine, and he was able to bring about the Plan that was hatched in the Villa of some Senator. From thence dates the ascendancy of the 'patriarchy' over the primitive Christian religion. All of this was confirmed for me later when I read the Book "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hyslop, & the 'Cliff Notes' of that text, entitled "Babylon Mystery Religion," by Ralph Woodrow.
You must understand this: First Century, authentic Christianity did not burn people at the stake. They didn't kill anyone. Murder was anathema to them. In the first century, A.D. in the Mediterranean Basin, Christianity was the Revolution. It was a novel & revolutionary ethic in which "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all One in Christ Jesus"
All of the Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch-burnings, Slaughters in the Name of Jesus, etc., etc., came later - After Constantine had his "vision" before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge, and ultimately organized the Council at Nicea. They belong, properly to the religion known as "Roman Catholicism" - and her daughters.
In order to find out about primitive, first century 'Christianity' one must read the Four Gospels, and the Book of Acts. In order to appreciate the "teaching" of Lord Jesus, one must read the Sermon on the Mount. That's just basic.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Have you ever asked yourself why you need some kind of authority to tell you what to believe and how to live your life. Is it perhaps because you don't want to look at yourself to find out who you really are, and so you choose organized religion as an escape. Organized religions are just someones thoughts written in books which have caused separation. That's one of the biggest reasons why there has been constant conflict in the world.
Is it possible to free ourselves from our conditions of the past? So that we can radically transform ourselves and find out what it truly means to love ourselves unconditionally, and therefor be able to love others unconditionally as well. It's only when we really find out for ourselves, how to be free of our conditions which is the cause of separation, and that is by actually looking at ourselves with total awareness. Then we will be able to see clearly how to end conflict, which is the cause of suffering, sorrow, pain and misery in ourselves and the world. It starts when we realize the fact that we are all one consciousness, and that there is no separation, and therefore the end of conflict.
Ain't got nothing to do with "organized religion" Becky Lynn. I just recognize that there is, in this Huge Universe, a "First Cause" - a Power that is Greater than you & me. And, as far as "knowing" myself, Yes, that is an integral aspect of "finding "GOD"" - for We -Individually & Collectively- are His Temple. "GOD" is within Us -not as the "Self"- but as the "Sustainer."Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
Upon reflection, I feel there is something that I must add to this: That it is not a matter of "religion" -but of "relationship." During my first pass through all of the Major Religions back in '66, I was struck by the words that Paramahansa Yogananda wrote: "God is more personal than you can ever possibly imagine."
And, although I never got a touch, heard from -or saw- Krishna, I did see Yahshua {Jesus} and can testify that He has Person-hood, and also offers Friendship to those who will "...keep my sayings and follow Me..." I can also testify that, although this "relationship" can be rough & rocky (the flesh is weak) that it is also more precious than all of the precious things of Egypt...
What you call "major religions" are in fact organized religions. Following like sheep some thoughts written in a book. Needing some authority to have power over you. When you realize that you have the power yourself to look deeply at why you accept that authority, then you may come to realize that it is about security. Then you can look at the fear of all of that. Then you can possibly free yourself, and when we are all free of our conditions then we can change our violent ways. Not by becoming non-violent, but by realizing that we are violent and ending it.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
Well, in a way you are preaching to the choir - though you don't know it. I've already stated that i don't go to 'church' (my Communion is with the Great Outdoors.) What more can i say to indicate my hippie orthodoxy? I also have a pretty non-conforming pedigree, given my Berkeley roots, Unitarian up-bringing, & radical family. All the same, I saw Jesus after subjecting myself to the rigors of six months of intensive study of All of the so-called "Scriptures" &, When one has seen the Man, one does not forget...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
To each his own //: PEACE...
So you are aware of the fact that we are all one consciousness. Knowing that then, you should understand that in order to change the constant conflict that we have created in our civilizations all over the world. We have to radically transform ourselves first, so that we don't continue with the same problems. You can not change the problems with the same mind that caused the problems. Unfortunately, peace does not exist as long as there is separation which is the cause of violence,suffering,and misery in the world.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
This crisis we are currently in is a huge wake-up call, and if we don't change our ways be prepared for more of the same. Because when our time is up it's not going to matter what religion you followed, what will be asked is, did you fulfill your purpose while you were here on earth? Did you know yourself? How did you help end conflict? Did you contribute to the destruction of the planet, or did you try and help her?
I almost gave you gratitude for this post, Becky Lynn, because I agree with so much -but not all- of it. When you say "...what you will be asked..." it is almost as if you believe there will be a Judgment of some sort. Let me ask you a Question or two: Who is going to do the asking? & If you reject the Scriptures of the (six) "Major Religions" do you have a replacement text, or are you just winging it? Not intending to be rude; just curious.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
I choose to not follow authority when it comes to religious beliefs. Simply because as I have said many times, that the organized religions have created a huge amount of separation and conflict in this world. I also don't believe that we will be judged. I do not know who will be asking the questions, it could be consciousness it's self.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
I do think that we are here for a purpose, and that is. To know ourselves not intellectually, but intelligently what it means to have love and compassion for every living thing of this planet. And as human beings we are here to learn and experience conscious, unconscious, and physical, or spirit, soul, and body, as one. I also think that to really know ourselves is by having relationships with others, because that is how we mirror each other. By relationship I mean seeing each other without an image of the person, even though it's someone you have known for a long time. That is the way to actually be able to see each other as we truly are. In order to have a replacement text, we would first have to free ourselves of our past conditions, so that we can clearly see with new eyes how to come together as one, and then we can change this world for the better.
Yes, but. Our constructs are our beliefs. And science as a belief system is a false understanding of it's utility. Is it possible too live without belief? I chose mine. And since my choice is conscious, it evolves. I don't think judging others belief is connecting. And yes, I've done it here.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Star Man:
Becky Lynn wrote:
I choose to not follow authority when it comes to religious beliefs. Simply because as I have said many times, that the organized religions have created a huge amount of separation and conflict in this world. I also don't believe that we will be judged. I do not know who will be asking the questions, it could be consciousness it's self.)
- A partial Yes /
I'll get back to you on this...
I do think that we are here for a purpose, and that is To know ourselves not intellectually, but intelligently what it means to have love and compassion for every living thing of this planet. And as human beings we are here to learn and experience conscious, unconscious, and physical, or spirit, soul, and body, as one.
Yes
I also think that to really know ourselves is by having relationships with others, because that is how we mirror each other. By relationship I mean seeing each other without an image of the person, even though it's someone you have known for a long time.
Yes
That is the way to actually be able to see each other as we truly are. In order to have a replacement text, we would first have to free ourselves of our past conditions, so that we can clearly see with new eyes how to come together as one, and then we can change this world for the better.
Again, a partial Yes
Becky Lynn wrote:
“I choose to not follow authority when it comes to religious beliefs. Simply because as I have said many times, that the organized religions have created a huge amount of separation and conflict in this world. I also don't believe that we will be judged. I do not know who will be asking the questions, it could be consciousness it's self…
...In order to have a replacement text, we would first have to free ourselves of our past conditions, so that we can clearly see with new eyes how to come together as one, and then we can change this world for the better.”
We all make choices in life – for various reasons and in accord with experiences that have shaped our thinking. I agree with you on the point that “organized religion has created a huge amount of separation and conflict in the world” -For that is undeniably true.
Furthermore, the Sanhedrin of Judaism, the Vatican of Catholicism, the World Council of Churches of the Prots, the RSS of the Hindus, the Mecca of Islam, & the Lamas of the four schools of Tibetan Buddhism-in-exile are all examples of Institutions that exercise social control. I wouldn’t want to subject myself to be controlled by any of them.
Nevertheless, I think that there is still a certain amount of ‘virtue’ in the texts {the bare-bones, original ‘scriptures’} of each of those “paths.” -There are certainly many lessons that may yet be learned when one does comparative studies of the texts. -And also, when one studies the History of all of those sects, and how they have interacted –and conflicted- through the process that we call Time.
I also believe that there is a judgment, and that the One who will ask the questions and make the final decisions is the Son of Man.
So to live in fear of judgement is your choice.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Mayacaman:
The reason why religion has divided and confused people is by comparing constantly. All of the names of one person for instance Yashua,Yahweh, Joshua, and Jesus as an example of all the confusion.
The Buddha, Dalai Lama, Jesus etc. were needed to help people remember what their purpose is while here on earth. For the past 2,000 years while in the age of Pisces we have endured division, which has caused many wars, misery, and suffering.
We are shifting into the Aquarian age, and it's clear that we no longer can live here with division and constant conflict. So we have to know thyself, and learn to flow as one. All of the systems we have created are going to change, as has obviously been happening. We can choose to fight it or go with the flow. I choose to be the light that we came to this earth to be. Unconditional Love starts within. Then the earth will be in balance and harmony.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Becky Lynn:
He put before them another parable, saying, “The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man having sown good seed in his field.
25 And while the men are sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds in the midst of the wheat, and went away.
26 And when the plants sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds also appeared.
27 And the servants, having approached the master of the house, said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?’
28 And he said to them, ‘An enemy did this.’ And the servants said to him, ‘Then do you desire that having gone forth, we should gather them?’
29 And he said, ‘No, lest gathering the weeds, you would uproot the wheat with them.
30 Allow both to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the harvesters, “First gather the weeds, and bind them into bundles in order to burn them; then gather together the wheat into my barn.”’”
34 Jesus spoke all these things to the crowds in parables, and He was not speaking to them without a parable,
35 so that it might be fulfilled that having been spoken by the prophet, saying: “I will open My mouth in parables; I will utter things hidden from the foundation of the world.”
36 Then having dismissed the crowds, He went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.”
37 And answering He said, “The One sowing the good seed is the Son of Man; 38 and the field is the world; and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the weeds are the sons of the evil one; 39 and the enemy having sown them is the devil; and the harvest is the consummation of the age; and the harvesters are angels.
40 Therefore, as the weeds are gathered and consumed in fire, so will it be in the consummation of the age.
41 The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all the stumbling blocks and those practicing lawlessness,
42 and they will cast them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. The one having ears,d let him hear!
13 “I saw in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like the Son of man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him.
4 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.
1 At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, shall stand up. There will be a time of distress such as never has occurred from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people— everyone whose name is found written in the book— will be delivered.
2 And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
3 Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.