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I am saddened by the losses in Sonoma and the surrounding areas. You are in my thoughts.
Would it be wise to visit as a tourist (wineries, restaurants, hotel) to the county in about 3 weeks?
I have seen some say it is a good idea to help the local economy. I have heard some say avoid it as it isn't in the shape for tourists.
Thoughts?
In my opinion and that of many others, wine tourism to what used to be called the natural Redwood Empire and is now called the commercial "Wine Country" is a major threat to our local economy, roads, food ag., and rural lands. For more documentation on this, you can visit the Wine and Water Watch website (www.winewaterwatch.org) and the Facebook page and website of Preserve Rural Sonoma County. We will be hosting events in the near future regarding the threat that a mono-crop like wine brings to our beloved county.
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Posted in reply to the post by Al Morris:
Yes! Come and visit! There are many areas of Sonoma County that were untouched by the fires. Of course, we are all touched and affected, perhaps not physically, but emotionally and psychically. But, many of the wineries, vineyards, hotels, restaurants and scenic areas, especially west of highway 101 are open, have not been harmed and are still beautiful.
The air quality is not good right now, but is getting better and should be fine in 3 weeks.
The Russian River Valley, Dry Creek Valley, much of Alexander Valley and Healdsburg, Sebastopol, Bodega Bay, Jenner, Petaluma, and probably many more areas, are still lovely to visit and...... they need to FEEL the love! Prayers and thoughts are powerful and good, but coming for a visit and helping the economy would be a great gift!
Thanks for asking!
It's a bit early to know. This area's not as dependent on tourism as, say, the Virgin Islands or Puerto Rico. It's a much tougher choice for them. But any area dependent on tourism, or even on locals going out for entertainment, suffers when people avoid visiting.
Small businesses and farms do desperately need business.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Al Morris:
Please come, eat at small local restaurants, and stay in a family run hotel/b+b.
Wineries don't need your money. They are mostly corporate or started by families with multi-generational plans.
Before everyone jumps on the tourism band wagon I'd like to point out just a few of the sacrifices we have made to have a wine/tourism dominated economic model in this county. First of all, any economist not hired by corporations knows that the tourism model is the first to go in an economic disaster and the last to recover. Our supervisors have made us less diverse to withstand such economic challenges by pandering to their donor class and allowing our county to get to the position where family's have to have multiple job earners and most with more than one job, to live in a county where big wine/tourism has driven up prices and vacation rentals have taken homes off the market to cash in. Granted this is keeping some people able to stay in their homes (great), most are "investments" and not homes.
Tourism has been the death of local servicing businesses which employed alot of folks. Our mom and pop stores are now upscale "things" to buy and not related to day to day living with rapidly accelerating rents. Our neighborhoods have been hollowed out, fragmented by tasting rooms, event centers and vacation rentals in all zones. Our kids have to leave because they can't afford housing (this includes first responders!), our streets are traffic nightmares so people drive fast through neighborhoods with kids playing causing safety issues on crumbling roads and infrastructure. Our police department has stated in the PD that half the calls now are coming from these tourists. Then there is the extra pollution associated with this business model and their toxic blew of over 2 million pounds doused in the vineyards yearly, our children are tied for number 3 with childhood cancer in our state (Napa #1) and hospice nurses are reporting cancer clusters all over the county.
I say to our supervisors they have alot of work to do to balance the needs of the residents vs. out of towners coming in to party. We've lost alot of what draws people to this county with the fires. I for one am saddened deeply by the burden and costs of the community but get real folks, we need a better economic base that caters to the people who actually live here and not a bunch of wealthy folks and out of towners. Did anyone actually read the sob story the PD put out 2 days ago where the winery owners who had damage were interviewed? They all owned 5 or more vineyards.
We are in a position to make this county more livable not continue the race to the bottom.
Let's stop draining our aquifers for wine profits, dewatering our streams and Russian River (1,100 unpermitted draws) and drying out our soil which in turn threatens the vegetation to survive droughts and causing much of the fuel for this fire. Let's stop cutting down trees that hold water and restores aquifers and stop filling in wetlands for more monocrops.
Yeah, Sonoma Strong and let's rebuild wisely and not let special interests continue to run our county.
Shepherd, Thank you for the feedback.
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Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd:
ChefJayTay - Thank you for the feedback. I highly prefer local places. I find the interactions to be authentic and unique rather than sterile and mass-produced. Given I am not from California, and it would be my first time there, I can be challenged in actually finding these family run places. If there is a website that I should look to find or if you have any pointers, I am all ears for listening for spending money more locally. I am planning on staying near Jack London state park, travelling to/from San Francisco for a couple of days. Either way, I really appreciated your feedback.
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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
I am appalled by this blanket, hurtful statement. There are *many* struggling small wineries. They are doing their best and working long hours to produce a great product, support their families, and pay a few employees. Are you suggesting we boycott them? Encourage tourists not to visit them because you want to paint the industry with a one-size-fits-all brush? Shame on you.
The first that comes to mind is Carol Shelton on Coffey Ln. Employees have lost their homes. Access to the winery is still blocked. I challenge anyone to visit when they reopen. Meet Carol & her husband. Buy a bottle of wine. Which, incidentally, is very good and fairly priced. Then tell me you still think tourists should not patronize small businesses like this.
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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
My environmental science teacher said, "Most environmental problems are caused by simplistic thinking in a complex cyclic world."
My issues with the wine industry is their massive use of pesticides and herbicides like ROUNDUP. We have the second highest rates of childhood blood cancers as well as adult cancers in CA - Napa is first.
BUT on the other side - can we afford to fill the vineyards with track housing to solve the housing problem?
We have serious water issues all over California. And wells in Sonoma County are dangerously depleted.
Do we have enough water to sustain everyone for the next 25 years or more? The experts say no.
I grew up in Pacifica, next to Daly City and watched the landscape and environment destroyed by endless and unsustainable development. There are so many questions to ask ourselves. And no simple answers. In my opinion, capitalism is at the heart of the endangerment of our planet.
Is it possible the county is overpopulated? Are we beyond our carrying capacity - do we consider wildlife and wilderness in our planning? Both of which are critical to our long-term survival. Should we be planting trees to restore what was lost in the past two fires?
I am asking these questions - they are NOT meant to be answered quickly and I don't have clear-cut answers myself.
In a real local economy - people would share the land to produce food. They would build permaculture like gardens and low impact smallish housing that blended into the landscape. Are we including genuine biodiversity and ecological principles in our thinking for new development? Are we there yet? And how would we convince most people who barely have time to shop and make dinner more or less contemplate such dramatic and sweeping changes to our society to take this on.
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Posted in reply to the post by barfly:
I can hate on the rich as much as anyone, but I have a different idea of who's rich, I guess. Someone with five vineyards doesn't seem to fall on the side of the evil oligarchs. There's a balance to be found here. It's true that it's not being found now, but address that directly; no need to put up the barricades against 'wealthy folks and out-of-towners'. You can't blame them all for lacking the strength of character to seek poverty.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by O.W.:
While I appreciate your point of view, it is important to recognize that regardless of how you feel about wine/tourism marketing, wineries are an economic engine that 1) attracts the very tourists who also enjoy staying at small B & B's and visiting family farms and local businesses and 2) provide jobs for many residents.
Dissing them as competition doesn't really work....perhaps cooperating with (and promoting) smaller, sustainable family owned wineries who can attract these visitors would be the way to go
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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
is it overpopulated? not as simple a question as it sounds. It leads to a question of what to do with people - where should they live? "Not here" isn't really a helpful answer.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by caromia333:
But your points on sustainability are exactly to the point. And your comment on complexity goes to the heart of that too. Pushing people out is too simplistic. Blaming capitalism as a cause is too simplistic, too. Again, what's a better alternative, one more achievable than Thomas More described? Better to think of it as one of the factors like another vineyard pest. Trying to eliminate it with some sort of social Round-Up isn't a good solution. Like any other environmental factor, it needs more thoughtful management to prevent it from being destructive - but it does have a place in the ecosystem.
You think in absolutes, I didn't speak in them.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by barfly:
"They are mostly corporate or started by families with multi-generational plans."
I'm glad there's small wine producers that aren't a part of Diageo, E&J, Bronco, Treasury, Constellation, or The wine group.
Edit: In addition, my opinion comes from knowing what it takes to START a vineyard. It really is a multi-generational task. Either you're rich enough to have bought a vineyard that is already producing, or you're starting new vines and waiting years for them to produce (and without knowing the quality....?). It's not a business that you get a loan and open tomorrow.
Nice try.
Really, you know how I think?!?
Obviously I was responding to your statement: "Wineries don't need your money."
You made this statement to someone considering visiting this area. Sounds pretty absolute to me. I'd guess the OP took it that way as well, but I won't presume to know what they are thinking. You do?
Further, now you're conflating vineyards and wineries, which are quite different. Nor do I agree with your assessment in almost every detail. I'm not even clear what you mean with this term multi-generational which you keep bandying about. Are you saying that if my father bought a piece of land in SoCo when it was affordable, and I derive benefit from this, that makes me evil? I should be boycotted, my children don't deserve shoes and any employees should lose their jobs? Is that what you're saying?
Please clarify. I'd like to live up to your moral standards, but at present, I don't know how.
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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
Our supervisors sold us down the river a while back to these corporate special interests. The business model base for the wine/tourism industry is totally rigged to the upper classes. Last week in the PD they interviewed some of the winery owners affected and very few owned less than 5 vineyards. Can you afford to own that much property in Sonoma County?
Low paying jobs for the rest of us. Name one economic professional not paid by the corporate interests that don't say this is the first biz model that collapses and the last to come back in tough economic times. We must rebuild with economic diversity!
This industry claims in our county that 40% of our wineries are owned by small families. Those families are Kendall Jackson, Gallo etc. It's like last year they tried to tell us that we were over 25% organic and biodynamic but when looked at closer the actual acreage not poisoning us was 2%. It's time for the 5th highest paid supervisors in the state to get to work and create a more diverse economic base that doesn't pander to their donors.
I have sympathy for the real small wineries who are trying to do the best they can. We all support them. Did anyone see the SF Chronicle article on workers out picking with the smoke and fire? The same paper had an article in the last month where 95% of our states grape crop is mechanized except for Napa and Sonoma.
I am really hoping that people who created such a wonderful community do not flee as the wealthy ownership class buys up more land for those tourists to come out for the weekend. How high do property values go before we are left with only upper class folks being able to afford to live here? How many jobs do families need to support themselves in this very low paying economic model while the wealth gap here continues to grow? We need better paying jobs or that is what will be left......another Marin in the making. :yinyang:
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Posted in reply to the post by gypsey:
No... I'm saying if your father bought a vineyard, it very likely isn't how he got his money originally.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by barfly:
It's something that takes a minimum of 3-4 years... FOR JUICE (not fermented, barrelled, or aged in any form). So... Maybe 5 years to have your first product?
If it's the only asset yours family has, sell it and get into something more secure.
You sound like you mis-represent. Your description of how long it takes to produce wine goes with the sentence "If your father planted a vineyard", not "if your father bought a vineyard".
And your proposed resolution is to sell the vineyard; to who? One of those corporations you so seem to despise, who have the deep pockets necessary to buy it from you? Because if you are selling, you are going to try to sell for top dollar, or at least the going market rate, because otherwise you won't be able to stay here anyway.
More than one person along this thread has effectively made the tautology:
- all wine is bad
- all tourism is wine
- therefore all tourism is bad
I hope the many people who own or are employed by places like Safari West, Trail House, Osmosis, Red Robin, and Screamin' Mimi's aren't listening. While wine tourism does indeed bring people here, if there were nothing else they wouldn't stick around long, and all of our lives and livelihoods would be that much poorer for it. Sure, balance is important and we can work on that. But the broad brush I've been reading doesn't seem conducive to sustaining a community here.
Do you have a point with these semantics? or are you just mad at me?
Let me repeat my first post....
"Small businesses and farms do desperately need business.
Please come, eat at small local restaurants, and stay in a family run hotel/b+b.
Wineries don't need your money. They are mostly corporate or started by families with multi-generational plans. "
I have removed Mark Goldes post and replies to his post. Let's keep this discussion on track.
Your " illustrious moderator" ~ Barry :waccosun:
Hi Al - Thanks for asking!Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Al Morris:
As you've seen, there's a variety of viewpoints on the matter. Here's mine:
Please come! We've taken a big hit, so clearly, the county is not in prime shape. However, your understanding support would be, on balance, appreciated, IMO.
If you stay away from burnt areas, then the many desirable features of the county are still here, especially the glorious weather, clear blue skies (finally without smoke), and foliage and vineyards starting their breathtaking displays. The mood has changed, though. Shock and terror are giving way sadness, loving support, and resolute solidarity. Public events that were at first canceled, are returning often focused on generating support for the fire victims.
Tourism is an important part of our economy. The businesses that are open (which most are) still need your support. While some people feel that we are too dependant on tourism, it's not in anybody's interest for that sector to be depressed more than necessary now. Diversifying our economy is a worthy goal that should happen by the building of new industries, not by abandoning tourism. Perhaps some headway can happen in that respect as we rebuild.
So please come. We need your support and are happy to share the beauty and bounty of our still-blessed county!
Old joke; how do you make a small fortune in the wine Industry? Start with a large one...Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay: