Printable View
This morning on KPFA radio I heard David Swanson laying out the case to impeach Donald Trump now. So I went to the website and joined over 100,000 signers. For more details you can also go to www.davidswanson.org. He dealt with the issues of Vice-President Pence perhaps being even worse. There are many advantages of an attempt to impeach Trump--one of many good strategies to keep the pressure on, and at least reduce his autocratic power.
So... impeach Trump on exactly what charges? I'm sorry- but this sounds like the same nonsense we saw during Bill Clintons term, and throughout Obamas.
And please feel free to explain how with a Republican controlled senate and house an impeachment would work today?
Look, I despise Trump the man. But there are no (real/hard) grounds for impeachment at the moment. And I have no idea what Trump actually believes, if anything (other then his own greatness).
Give the man time to dig his own grave- and in the meantime, fight where it makes sense, and otherwise- do what Democrats are best at- work to compromise and try and push things in the right direction.
Or are we to become the new Tea Party?
GOP is brilliant at protecting their POTUS by naming VPs such as Quayle, Cheney, the gal who could see Russia, and now Pence, who is probably worse than the guy in office. Agree with the last reply, GOP congress will have to act.
Just a thought. I'm sure it has to do with my having just got over an attack of pancreatitis, plus a terrible fall last Sunday, but I've got this in my mind and it just won't leave. I've been puzzled by Trump's operations, and have come to belive that being very deliberately coached about what to say when. I think that this year and through most of next, that we'll be seeing him deliver a series of exasperating executive orders which will cause us to shout and scream, demonstrate, write scathing diatribes in various publications and indulge in various kinds of civil disobedience. Then, shortly before the '18 election, the government will issue orders that will say that, because of all the brouhaha, a state of national emergency has been declared and the elections have been "postponed". And there goes democracy. Please...tell me I'm wrong, and why.
Roland
Well, for starters Trump has given the go-ahead to the ND pipeline, despite the fact that he is heavily invested in it as far as we know. (If he revealed his tax returns, we would know for sure if he has divested or not.) This is flat-out illegal! I do think that mass demonstrations and letter-writing to members of Congress would have an effect. Not that Pence would be much of an improvement, but at least he is not certifiably mentally ill (as far as I know).
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by SonomaPatientsCoop:
Really? Because my understanding is that, sadly, the laws that apply on this for members of congress and other government officials actually does not apply to the president.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by wisewomn:
Regardless- how is an impeachment on such technalities going to happen with a republican controlled senate and house?
As I said before- give the man the rope to hang himself. Sh** like this is only going to blowback, and cause entrenchment among the right. His time will likely come. But for now...we need to look to the 2018 election- when the entire house is up for re-election, and enough of the senate to possibly swing it. We need to look ahead...and do the hard work.
Actually, the POTUS has to abide by ethics standards as well. Herewith another worthy article from Steve Bhaerman with a link to worthy petitions on just this subject:
https://files.constantcontact.com/34...0e138d5ba5.jpg
January 26, 2017
Yes, We CARE!
"During the most discouraging days of the Bush Administration, the optimystics among us said, 'Cheer up ... things could be worse.' And sure enough, we were right. They are."-- Swami BeyondanandaSure, we miss George W. Bush. But this is no time for nostalgia, not even for the good ol' Obama days. We have had to downshift from "Yes we can!" to "Yes we care" if we want to upshift our karma and head toward the world we all know is possible.
In response to Kellyanne Conway's remarks that "people didn't care" if Donald Trump released his tax returns, we now have the opportunity to affirm in overwhelming numbers, yes we DO care. Yes we do care if our President is subject to the rule of law, and yes we DO care if he has institutionalized corruption and "ethic cleansing" into our already-compromised system.
We sent an email earlier this week encouraging people to sign the petition at WhiteHouse.gov to urge President Trump to release his tax returns. Since that time, there are 50,000 more signatures on the petition, and yesterday's New York Times actually had a story about it. (Proof that not EVERYTHING the Times covers is "fake news".)
There are 370,000 signatures and counting, and we're looking to reach a million by February 19th. Please check out my article that just got published on Huffington Post, go there, "like" the article, and share with friends.
Folks, even if you voted for Trump considering him a less terrible choice than Hillary, if you're on my list you want to make sure we live in a land ruled by law and for the benefit of the people. You want to protect our lives, our liberty, our planet. You probably had some doubts about Donald Trump in any case, and likely some concern that he would favor autocratic rule. That makes it all the more important that the President be subject to the rule of law. That's not a progressive issue, it's not a conservative issue ... it's one that is for the benefit of all. The American people were divided by the most toxic election in the past century -- divided and conquered. Donald Trump's gang -- his cabinet nominees and the Republican Senators set to give them the "robber stamp" are the same (or worse) neocon oligarchs represented by Bush / Obama / Hillary and the corporate state.
With the oligarchs in charge of every branch of the government, and a President ready, willing and able to wield his power with dictatorial zeal, the only remaining check and balance is We the People.
Let's use that power.
Nothing personal, Donald Trump. This is about the Constitution, and if we need to go back any further, the Declaration of Independence. Enough said. Go sign this petition (https://bit.ly/2jWhiteHousePetitionTrumpTaxes) and invite your friends to do the same.
Steve Bhaerman
Because we had elections during WW2, during the Viet Nam anti war riots (remember 1968?) and during the depression when rioting was common. Germany had only been a demcracy for ten years or so when Hitler came to power, and even then had been led the whole time by Hindenberg who was very much a leftover of the old autocratic days. They were used to being led by autocrats. We are not. There is such a thing as national character and historical tradition, and this country is not Germany or Russia or China or any other country. I am surprised that I, a resident alien, seem to have more confidence in the fundamental American character than most Americans. Wasn't it Churchill who said that you can always trust the Americans to do the right thing after they have exhausted all the other possibilities?
We survived Andrew Jackson, US Grant, Nixon, Reagan, Bush/Cheney and other presidents who seemed like disasters at the time, and we will survive this bunch too. There is a whole lot of very resistive bureaucracy that has to be set moving to achieve real fundamental change. Yes, they will do a lot of damage, just as those others did, but talk of canceled elections is, in my opinion, Chicken Little territory.
Patrick Brinton
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Roland Jacopetti:
Well, I'm having trouble thinking of a time in my lifetime I havent heard this from the fringes of the right or left. Surely, during Obamas 2 terms this was quite common even among the established right "news" sites. Maybe more obvious with the rise in the internet, but I remember pamphlets and newsletters going back far further- from both sides.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Roland Jacopetti:
Paranoid fantasy and IMHO- something that would require the acquiessence of both houses of congress, the Supreme Court, and 50 state governments among others.
Meanwhile, in this week's Bohemian article "Resist, Refuse, Sue," Rep. Jared Huffman is reported saying the following: "It's coming, folks, Huffman says, it's coming. 'This president is like a walking target for impeachment, so stay tuned.' He cited congressional and outside investigations in declaring, "I think there is reason to believe there will be the most credible case for impeachment you'll ever see, in the short-term."
The people first impeach Trump, then Pence, and anyone else the Republicans try to put in as president.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Stuart:
https://www.WaccoBB.net/forums/wacco...6_13-36-46.png
In just two short weeks, three communities have passed our resolution at their Town Hall and City Council meetings calling on Congress to launch an impeachment investigation of President Donald Trump. From Alameda and Richmond, California to Charlotte, Vermont, concerned citizens have taken the lead to bring this campaign home.
People like Susan O., a teacher from Charlotte, Vermont, who introduced our resolution at her Town Hall meeting:
“To become a teacher, I swore an oath to support and defend the US Constitution. Many of the people sitting in our Town Hall took the same oath to support and defend the Constitution — all public school and university teachers, all public servants in Civil Service, all members of the U.S. Armed Forces and the National Guard. Likewise, all members of Congress, all governors and state legislators, and all immigrant naturalized Americans.
So, I called on all people who have taken this oath and all people who feel allegiance to the Constitution to defend the Constitution of the United States against the violations committed by Trump and to push Congress to investigate these violations."
"Yes, let's make America great again. And above all, let's make the Constitution great again."
And hundreds more of you, from Orlando to Seattle, have reached out to us asking how to take action. To make this happen and to seize on this momentum, we need your help.
Pitch in $25 and help us reach our fundraising goal, so we can roll out the next phase of our campaign.
https://wfc2.wiredforchange.com/o/80...donate-now.png
Together, we will bring this resolution to more cities and states, to continue empowering people like Susan and communities like Alameda, Charlotte, and Richmond.
We need you to keep the ball rolling with a donation today.
This campaign isn’t just about Donald Trump. It’s about us. Who are we as a people? What are we as a nation? In this moment of crisis, will we rise to defend our Constitution, to defend our democracy, and to defend the fundamental principle that no one is above the law, not even the President of the United States?
Thank you for standing with us. Together, we will build and win this campaign!
In solidarity,
John Bonifaz
The Campaign to Impeach Donald Trump
Can we please just stop with this nonsense talk of impeachment??
Impeachment is NOT a political tool- it is one of the most serious tools of our system of government.
Only 2 presidents- Andrew Jackson and Bill Clinton, have been impeached by the House..and both were acquitted by the Senate.
There is currently no evidence of crimes that would amount to a valid impeachment of Trump by both the House and the Senate - never mind the Rebublican control of both houses.
So can we please stop this nonsensical talk, at least until there is strong and irrefutable evidence of impeachable offences? Because and impeachment will accomplish nothing good at this point- and only serve to strengthen the right. We don't need another circus such as Clintons impeachment, which I think many of us can actually remember....
Trying to silence over a million people who have called for Trump's impeachment, a political tool, does not make sense. Many of us consider Trump to be the worst president we have ever had. "No evidence of crimes," you say, yet this immigrant is dividing families, violating the constitution, alienating allies, threatening a nuclear exchange, and engaging in all kinds of current and potential harm to humans, our air, water, and environment. These are all crimes, and there are more. He is dividing the Republican party. Labeling people whom you disagree with as "nonsensical" is not likely to silence us.
To use your word, Trump is the head of a "circus." He has engaged in a corporate coup. He insults our last president. So NO, we will not be silenced. We will take to the streets, use the courts, and other tools to get rid of this fool, exposing him to a growing number of people for all the damage that he does.
Following is a link to an article in today's NY Times, which also appears in the Press Democrat, about the damage that he is doing:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/u...haos.html?_r=0
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by SonomaPatientsCoop:
That's crimes in a poetic sense, which is hard to disagree with. But did you actually read his post? Impeachment is a legal process, not an expression of disapproval. Isn't rule of law what Robin Hood fought Prince John over, giving us the Magna Carta? (At least that's what I learned from Errol Flynn)Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Shepherd:
There are good reasons to impeach this president. Foremost, in his short tenure, he already has impeachable offenses due to his business dealings (for more, https://impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org). There are no direct laws for many of his other behaviors that are not befitting a president or anyone with a modicum of decency. Think of the time when the mafia was put away for tax evasion when they had crimes of murder that would have been more difficult to prosecute.
We are in very serious times and we need to act and not sit around talking philosophically. Impeaching Trump would put him on the defensive and possibly slow down his realm of destruction. If the impeachment were successful, yes, Pence would take office but now under the threat of a similar action. The impeachment would likely embolden the Democrats and others to do other proactive steps to influence civility, humanity, and constitutionality to the executive leadership. It might even embolden those in this crises who usually only move their lips.
I don't think we should impeach Trump.... yet.
If we impeach we get Pence, a more level headed guy, but still ultra conservative.
I think Trump is useful for the time being to both tear the Republican party apart, and for demonstrating the horrors in reality for what the right has been saying they want (and have been elected by those who support it). Let them say (and perhaps see) what repeal and replace actually means. Let them see what boosting the military while not adding to the budget deficit, let alone actually balancing the budget actually means.
I think Trump can be very useful in breaking the Republican extremist fever. They will either forsake their former desires or be trounced at the ballot box. Plus Trump is so distasteful as a human being that he further hobbles their cause. Plus he may just shake some things up that are well worth shaking. For instance, it seems like he will successfully get Nato members to contribute more... if he doesn't destroy it!
It at all possible I'd like to see Trump serve out his term. I would not like to see Pence as a sitting President running for re-election in 2020.
The key thing we need to prevent is WAR! I think the rest of the damage that he will cause in 4 years, including to the environment, will be more than offset by the huge majorities we will win in 2018 and 2020, including redistricting, and hopefully a Republican party that has regained their sanity.
Yes, I can understand the point of view that there are benefits to letting Trump be Trump in this presidency. He has created an awakening within much of the electorate that has been needed for decades during this time that ruling elites have been planning for complete control. The awakening is already in process.
I'm going to assume that people commenting on this thread are not any of the vulnerable ones. Nor am I. We may be safe in our houses at this time but very many others will not. Putting Trump's regime into a defensive mode along with resistance from many inside the system, actions in the streets, and at our representatives doors can have an impact on their agenda which could save many people's lives and wellbeing.
Also, I would not assume that we will remain as safe as we think we are.
Nope... I see you edited your post but I DEFINITELY am one of the vulnerable ones. I'm a butch-femme nonbinary transgender lady who has autism and a Traumatic Brain Injury! (And, I'm a girl... I use she/her pronouns)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by larryjhanson:
But doesn't rule of law evolve too? Robin was an outlaw, i am an anarchist. It's not that i believe laws are bad, i just think of them as requests. I don't think trump impeachests are out to lunch, just out of order. Will the trumpet cross over the poetic line? He is a savvy man I'm sure.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish:
-
Here are the reasons to impeach Trump:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzDo5uj4lHk
oh yeah, don't think I'm not looking forward to his impeachment. I don't see it happening until a Democrat majority comes in, with luck in a couple of years. Probably just as well - I'm so glad that Trump is a buffoon with an out-of-control id. I'd hate to see someone like Pence, Cruz, or probably Rubio in charge. Maybe they too would be so outrageous that they'd stimulate the same kind of opposition, but I can't say I'm eager to find out.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
-
Trump has got to go either by impeachment or the 25th Amendment of the Constitution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtjw4UDnC10
Robert Reich : The Resistance Report March 23, 2017
https://yt3.ggpht.com/-HbhMp5sXeBM/A...ffff/photo.jpg