Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
What a shame that the Sonoma Dept of Health has acted so badly -- it would be very sad to lose the Heirloom Festival to LA or the South Bay.
Can they be pressured to refund the fines? As the article says, looks like they were more concerned with grabbing $$$ than protecting the public health.
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Posted in reply to the post by Shandi:
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
I think that returning the fines is a wonderful idea! I see in today's PD on the front page that the head of the County Health Dept has resigned. I hope that the county can both return the fines, as you suggest, and also let them know that its vendors and volunteers will not be subject to over zealous prosecution.
I attended the Heirloom festival this year for two days. There is nothing like it anywhere. What makes it so fantastic is the generous and warm spirit of the people, coming together to support organic, local, regenerative agriculture and our shared ecology.
Losing this event to another County, when the organizations that support it all come from Sonoma County, would be a terrible outcome. Out County health dept and Supervisors ought to do everything in their power to reassure Heirloom--and the food vendors who fed many of us SO WELL there--to stay! :heart:
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
I too think this is sad.
Because a few people with big microphones were MAYBE wronged, our health department gets badmouthed.
Frankly, What I think is that our Health department was a bit lax in enforcement. I still think they are. I think perhaps the heirloom fest was one of the first major events to see a new better enforcement team. I think people were expecting to operate not by the law, but by past lax standards and were rudely awakened to reality of LAW.
Giving refunds would epitomize favoring an event over following the law.
I had seen what I thought were positive moves under new management. This ruins all that.
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
The Heirloom Expo has been an educational experience for all who attend for the past five years. The vendors and everything connected to the Expo brings in a tremendous amount of income to the city of Santa Rosa and the surrounding towns and communities.
It draws people from not only the state of California but from all over.
It enhances the economy of the area and surrounding areas. The vendors and many attendees need places to stay and places to eat for duration of the Expo, 3 days / nights.
We should also have the right to receive and accept a free apple or a free package of seeds when they are chosen to be given freely. It should be our choice.
How can this be a health concern?
Are you kidding?
Chemical free, lovingly grown and given with heart… that is considered unhealthy?
Come on folks. This is not only ridiculous, it is offensive for the people who willingly attend the Expo.
What is really behind the County's behavior?
The county should make amends and hold its head in shame.
It should apologize to those who pay their salaries and expect appropriate actions.
Health concerns? Baloney
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Oh the Law, you must mean the LAW that only applies to the little guy? ...you mean, "throw a tomato in my face"
please because i'm such a bad bad purrrson!
give me a break. this was easy pickins' right!?
when does the Health Dept. have our backs when it comes to the Wine polluters like Hobbs!? the guy who can just pay the freakin fine and keep polluting the environment and putting people at health risk.
jeez,"Health Department" is a misnomer!
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Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
I too think this is sad.
Because a few people with big microphones were MAYBE wronged, our health department gets badmouthed.
Frankly, What I think is that our Health department was a bit lax in enforcement. I still think they are. I think perhaps the heirloom fest was one of the first major events to see a new better enforcement team. I think people were expecting to operate not by the law, but by past lax standards and were rudely awakened to reality of LAW.
Giving refunds would epitomize favoring an event over following the law.
I had seen what I thought were positive moves under new management. This ruins all that.
Anything not specifically permintted is now forbidden; Re: Uproar...Heirloom Exposition
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive... those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S.Lewis (my favorite quote)
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Posted in reply to the post by amanda fisk:
We should also have the right to receive and accept a free apple or a free package of seeds when they are chosen to be given freely. It should be our choice.
How can this be a health concern?
Are you kidding?
Indeed. This SHOULD be our choice. There are legitimate reasons to have a Health Dept, but as with almost all bureaucratic endeavors, they arise out of some crisis, with good intentions, and evolve into a self-sustaining organization whose main purpose is to protect their own and grow their power. Thus, they develop sets of rules so that they don't need to use judgment, and can be kept safely in their jobs as long as the rules are followed. And add to that the power to fine people to sustain their funding: recipe for abuse.
"for your own protection" is all the reason they need. Perhaps the apple has a worm? And you find out after taking a bite (and finding only half-a-worm). Then you might get post wormanic stress syndrome and sue somebody.
We have reached a point where in many locations, anything not expressly permitted is now forbidden. Remember those "little free libraries": not permitted explicitly so they must be removed (https://www.latimes.com/books/jacket...204-story.html ). Lemonade stand operated by a 7 year old: forbidden. Giving away an apple, or worse yet, unregistered seeds: forbidden. BUT, if you pay a permit fee, then it's OK. (do we really think the permit does anything to protect anyone in these cases).
Yes, it is reasonable to have a building permit to make sure the house built today won't have hidden defects. But there is a "reasonableness" aspect that has been removed from our life. Zero tolerance is the fascist way to control a society. 5 year old brings a bubble-maker to school, looks vaguely like a gun, and is arrested! (https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...le-gun-threat/ ).
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Posted in reply to the post by amanda fisk:
Come on folks. This is not only ridiculous, it is offensive for the people who willingly attend the Expo.
Health concerns? Baloney
And offensive to people who believe that they should be able to take few, very small risks in their life without government supervision. If we endeavor to have a society where every possible bad thing is prevented, the power we must give to civil authorities must be immense. We are already a long way down that road and we should try our best to bring into our civil leaders the concept of reasonableness. Very hard because that calls upon judgment, and judgment brings risks to those who use it.
Re: Anything not specifically permintted is now forbidden; Re: Uproar...Heirloom Expositio
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by spam1:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive... those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." C.S.Lewis (my favorite quote)
Indeed. This SHOULD be our choice....
spam 1
Thank you for your most honest and intelligent response.
Amanda
(C.S.Lewis quote says it all.)
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Ummmm, is there an 'UnGratitude button' around here somewhere...? i need it here and now. jude
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by ChefJayTay:
I too think this is sad.
Because a few people with big microphones were MAYBE wronged, our health department gets badmouthed.
Frankly, What I think is that our Health department was a bit lax in enforcement. I still think they are. I think perhaps the heirloom fest was one of the first major events to see a new better enforcement team. I think people were expecting to operate not by the law, but by past lax standards and were rudely awakened to reality of LAW.
Giving refunds would epitomize favoring an event over following the law.
I had seen what I thought were positive moves under new management. This ruins all that.
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Jude Iam:
Ummmm, is there an 'UnGratitude button' around here somewhere...? i need it here and now. jude
The feeling is mutual.
These are the laws you guys agreed too. I'm not necessarily agreeing that they are right...
Let's start with what everyone's crying about.
Evan wasn't able to give out free apples.... Boo Hoo.
This was a closed event that people paid to attend. Where food vendors spent thousand(s) in festival fees for the chance to fill your stomach (and supposedly hundred(s) in health fees). I've attended before... 10% of your sales + more go to the fest. How is that in ANY way fair to them?
This is a legal community event. That means the Health department attended as a requirement of law as they must inspect all at least once a year.
Now let's add my opinion...
Sonoma County's Health department is already lacking. Go to a farmers' market. Are the food vendors using fly netting? Does it look like they cleaned their equipment this year? Did they even bother to bring water? Did they bother to setup a hand wash station? Are they cleaning the produce they are using? Now compare it to a Marin or Napa one. They need to happen under STATE law. They don't seem to here. I didn't even get inspected a second time in 2015.
I thought that was perhaps changing for the better. They were at least reviewing their operations. With a new department head who upped fees for health permits roughly 35% -roughly what they are in Marin- (which by the way I specifically brought up at the Sebastopol Farmers' Guild... They didn't care then). Now you guys went and turned him into a scapegoat for the next supervisor... nice job.
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Fly netting? Cleaned their equipment..hand wash station.. Marin or Napa.. Farmers Market
I thought this was about issues badly handled at the HEIRLOOM EXPO in Santa Rosa.
I would rather have a fly land on my free apple than all the insecticides used to keep a fly from landing on my food.
I don't mind a worm hole, it means the apple isn't poisoned.
Health concerns at the Farmers Markets?? Again you have a distorted illusion of what is healthy.
This is about control and dollar signs.
Oh I see the Sonoma County Health department just isn't really doing a good job in any direction
except finding ways to make money?
Re: Uproar Over Sonoma County's Handling of National Heirloom Exposition
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by amanda fisk:
[...]
I thought this was about issues badly handled at the HEIRLOOM EXPO in Santa Rosa.
[...]
Health concerns at the Farmers Markets?? [...]
The majority of food vendors at the fest are also farmers' market vendors... Whom are likely used to lax enforcement.
Re: Anything not specifically permintted is now forbidden; Re: Uproar...Heirloom Expositio
I am sure you understand the full motivation for these fascist acts, not the least for the two examples examined. Record keeping is a primary goal for both pmrd and health. Regulatory agencies can get in trouble for simply not having records. The rational scientists and more holistically minded challengers to this dominant paradigm demand more and more recording. Records are incredibly useful for fines and fine defense, now and far into the future. Our legal system is the heavy hand behind most of the powerful motivations to record. If we don't know who is giving away apples and seeds how will we track food born illness and genetic contamination/Scalping? This is why current docs spend more time creating electronic records than treating people.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by spam1:
...There are legitimate reasons to have a Health Dept, but as with almost all bureaucratic endeavors, they arise out of some crisis, with good intentions, and evolve into a self-sustaining organization whose main purpose is to protect their own and grow their power. ...
