'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
What was it, two years ago that WACCO was temporarily (?) invaded by some chemtrails truthers? Perhaps they will emerge again from their subterranean caves whence they have retreated to avoid the noxious rain.
'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Well-understood physical and chemical processes can easily explain the alleged evidence of a secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying program, commonly referred to as "chemtrails" or "covert geoengineering," concludes a new study from Carnegie Science, University of California Irvine, and the nonprofit organization Near Zero.
Some groups and individuals erroneously believe that the long-lasting condensation trails, or contrails, left behind aircraft are evidence of a secret large-scale spraying program. They call these imagined features "chemtrails." Adherents of this conspiracy theory sometimes attribute this alleged spraying to the government and sometimes to industry.
The authors of this study, including Carnegie's Ken Caldeira, conducted a survey of the world's leading atmospheric scientists, who categorically rejected the existence of a secret spraying program. The team's findings, published by Environmental Research Letters, are based on a survey of two groups of experts: atmospheric chemists who specialize in condensation trails and geochemists working on atmospheric deposition of dust and pollution.
The survey results show that 76 of the 77 participating scientists said they had not encountered evidence of a secret spraying program, and agree that the alleged evidence cited by the individuals who believe that atmospheric spraying is occurring could be explained through other factors, such as typical airplane contrail formation and poor data sampling.
The research team undertook their study in response to the large number of people who claim to believe in a secret spraying program. In a 2011 international survey, nearly 17 percent of respondents said they believed the existence of a secret large-scale atmospheric spraying program to be true or partly true. And in recent years a number of websites have arisen claiming to show evidence of widespread secret chemical spraying, which they say is linked to negative impacts on human health and the environment.
"We wanted to establish a scientific record on the topic of secret atmospheric spraying programs for the benefit of those in the public who haven't made up their minds," said Steven Davis of UC Irvine. "The experts we surveyed resoundingly rejected contrail photographs and test results as evidence of a large-scale atmospheric conspiracy."
The research team says they do not hope to sway those already convinced that there is a secret spraying program -- as these individuals usually only reject counter-evidence as further proof of their theories -- but rather to establish a source of objective science that can inform public discourse.
"Despite the persistence of erroneous theories about atmospheric chemical spraying programs, until now there were no peer-reviewed academic studies showing that what some people think are 'chemtrails' are just ordinary contrails, which are becoming more abundant as air travel expands. Also, it is possible that climate change is causing contrails to persist for longer periods than they used to." Caldeira said. "I felt it was important to definitively show what real experts in contrails and aerosols think. We might not convince die-hard believers that their beloved secret spraying program is just a paranoid fantasy, but hopefully their friends will accept the facts." Story Source:
The above post is reprinted from materials provided by Carnegie Institution for Science. Note: Content may be edited for style and length. Journal Reference:
Christine Shearer, Mick West, Ken Caldeira, Steven J Davis. Quantifying expert consensus against the existence of a secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying program. Environmental Research Letters, 2016; 11 (8): 084011 DOI: 10.1088/1748-9326/11/8/084011
08-13-2016, 06:58 PM
Scott McKeown
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by geomancer:
What was it, two years ago that WACCO was temporarily (?) invaded by some chemtrails truthers?
'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Well-understood physical and chemical processes can easily explain the alleged evidence of a secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying program, commonly referred to as "chemtrails" or "covert geoengineering," concludes a new study from Carnegie Science, University of California Irvine, and the nonprofit organization Near Zero.
But wait, this is the conclusion of 76 of the world's leading atmospheric scientists that was peer reviewed and published in a reputable scientific journal. Therefore, by definition it CAN'T be trusted as a source, don't you know? We should really be turning to amateur conspiracy bloggers with no experience in the field whatsoever as our sources of information.
08-14-2016, 05:36 AM
geomancer
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Scott McKeown:
But wait, this is the conclusion of 76 of the world's leading atmospheric scientists...
But Scott, note in the article that one brave, nay heroic, expert stood alone against the elitist mob of 76 sheeple to reveal something, something something!. All is not lost!
08-15-2016, 12:10 PM
bill shearer
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Thanks Bill for keeping the flag of real science waving. The fact that our government cannot be trusted and will intentionally hide things from the public does not mean that all silly stories that someone makes up about the government hding things are therefore true. Why would we decry bible-thumpers for denying evolution, but will swallow this guff about chemtrails for which there is absolutely no evidence except - "look at that thing in the sky, it just ain't NORMAL." I like sceince, I like the irrational parts of life too. I like folks who know when to apply the rules of one domain and when to apply the rules of the other.
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
The REAL Truth Behind 'Chemtrails'
Published on Aug 17, 2016
One of the conspiracy theories that just won't seem to quit is 'chemtrails.' Is it something you should be afraid of? John Iadarola, host of ThinkTank, breaks it down. Tell us what you think in the comment section below. https://www.tytnetwork.com
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
What is missing with all of these concerns be it chemtrails, vaccines, GMOs, fracking, targeted individuals, etc. etc. etc. is public debate ... why not allow these so called "amateur conspiracy bloggers" a public forum to present their information and concerns? ... what harm could it do? ... is this not the function of a free and open society? ... instead we have this kind of crap going on ... questioning authority is now classified as a mental illness ...
I got interested in chemtrails after watching such a public debate in Shasta County ... these were not amateur conspiracy bloggers ... in case you missed it ...
and then I did notice long white trails across the sky ... I pointed to these and asked others what they were ... some said chemtrails, others said contrails ... I never worried about it too much ... Now, I don't see any of this, just a perfect blue sky ... to those who identified the trails as contrails, does the absence of any trails mean that there is no longer any airplane traffic?
08-18-2016, 01:08 PM
Valley Oak
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Your idea was already tried right here on Wacco. It was called, "The Red Pill." It was a dismal failure.
Those issues have been and will continue to be debated on WaccoBB as elsewhere, unfortunately, because there are lots of idiots around who believe ludicrous things such as the Sandy Hook shootings being either a hoax or a secret government operation (which murdered the kids), etc, etc.
Yes, there are many fools in this world who will argue against vaccinations and some of those fools are right here in Wacco!
08-18-2016, 02:21 PM
arthunter
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear ... I'm not talking about online debates, I'm talking about community forums where residents can meet face to face, present documents, guest speakers, etc.The City of Richmond is trying to do this and I am involved in the planning ... Topics under consideration are homelessness, gentrification, vaccines, emf sensitivity, targeted individuals, economic development, to name a few ...Time to talk to each other again instead of hurling insults from your desktop ....
WILFRIED KRECICHWOST/GETTY IMAGES Dozens of scientists say condensation trails like the ones pictured here are NOT the result of a secret government chemical-spraying program.The next time you ponder those white, cloud-like streaks painted across the sky, remember this newly published paper before disdainfully whispering to yourself, “chemtrails...”
In the first peer-reviewed study of its kind, researchers at the University of California, Irvine and the Carnegie Institution for Science found that the world’s leading atmospheric scientists overwhelmingly believe that condensation trails ― known in the scientific community as “contrails” and to conspiracy theorists as “chemtrails” ― are not the product of a government-funded program aimed at covertly spraying chemicals into the atmosphere to control everything from overpopulation to food supply.
Their results were published last week in the journal Environmental Research Letters and provide a much-needed authoritative source on this widespread conspiracy theory, according to Steven J. Davis, study co-author and professor of Earth system science at UCI.
“We’re not trying to change the minds of die-hard chemtrail truthers,” Davis told The Huffington Post.
“There are intelligent people who aren’t convinced one way or the other [regarding the chemtrail conspiracy theory],” he added. “When they go Googling, we don’t want them to just find conspiracy theorists’ websites, we want them to have some scientific perspective.”
The study’s authors believe this is the first peer-reviewed scientific paper that evaluates the claims made by so-called chemtrail truthers and provides proof that most real-life scientists just aren’t buying their theories.
The researchers point out that a 2011 study revealed nearly 17 percent of respondents believed it was at least party true that streaks in the sky left by aircrafts are actually attempts by the government to secretly spray harmful chemicals into the atmosphere. https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset...e02c73e72.jpeg
PNJ VIA GETTY IMAGES Researchers at the University of California, Irvine and the Carnegie Institution for Science asked scientists to explain why certain contrails look the way they do.To evaluate truthers’ claims, researchers surveyed atmospheric chemists and geochemists to ask if they’d ever encountered evidence that points to secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying programs, which the researchers refer to as SLAP. Of the 77 scientists who answered, all but one said “no.”
The lone researcher who had said “yes” reported observing high levels of barium in an area that typically has low levels of the element in the soil. In a follow-up interview, researchers found that this expert was simply not ruling out the possibility of a covert government operation in the realm of possible explanations (of which there are many), according to Davis.
“It’s pretty loose to say that this person was actually supporting this kind of conspiracy,” Davis told HuffPost. “It was more that they couldn’t exclude it.”
Researchers also asked the experts to provide a scientific explanation for some of the evidence that chemtrail truthers cite to support their theories, including photos of contrails and copies of lab analyses that, theorists argue, show indications of chemical spraying.
“We’ve taken the evidence that [chemtrail truthers] provided on their websites to the best that we could find,” Davis explained. Then, “we had experts weigh in on the simpler explanations for those things.”
The results were pretty conclusive: The surveyed scientists were able to give reasonable scientific explanations for the conspiracy theorists’ evidence.
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset...ae02c73e75.pngENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH LETTERS This is what scientists had to say when they were asked to explain different photos of contrails.Davis found it surprising that the experts from different disciplines were able to come up with relatively similar explanations, “considering that we’re asking a big diversity of experts to look at the photos and see what’s going on.”
“The experts were able to look at these photos and come up with pretty straightforward explanations based on chemistry and physics,” he said.
The study’s authors make it clear that they’re well aware this scientific paper will likely do little to discourage chemtrail theorists.
As The New York Times points out, there have been legitimate reasons for atmospheric spraying, like artificially inducing rain via “cloud seeding” and exploring chemical spraying as a way to combat global warming. Still, as this study proves, nearly all scientists surveyed have not observed any evidence of secret, large-scale atmospheric spraying programs.
“We’re not claiming that this definitively debunks the conspiracy theory,” Davis told HuffPost. “Rather, this is just the first step to get something in the scientific record that unconvinced people can Google and find something scientific. There’s plenty more work that can be done on this topic.”
By tackling these chemtrail theories, the researchers hope that people will consider actual scientific opinion ― not just conspiracy theory websites ― and come to their own conclusions. And they hope to inspire the scientific community to do more research to debunk chemtrail claims.
“Our paper would at least begin a scientific record on the topic,” Davis said. “One that we hope others will build upon.”
Interesting, and I look forward to the rebuttal, should there be one ... At the moment my focus is elsewhere
...
08-19-2016, 10:52 AM
arthunter
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
As I have said, this is not a subject which I have studied, but others in Cal are very passionate about it ... For their sake, I share the following rebuttal ...https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...ring-cover-up/
08-19-2016, 03:16 PM
podfish
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
As I have said, this is not a subject which I have studied, but others in Cal are very passionate about it ... For their sake, I share the following rebuttal ...https://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/...ring-cover-up/
why do people who run sites like that do the rhetorical/typographic equivalent of wearing a clown costume to the libertarian convention (a real example, by the way). It's a rare person who wears a bikini to a wedding, either. Defying convention makes for good theater, but only works if your goal is to draw attention to yourself rather than to your ideas.
Gary Johnson is a good sport about it, but the dude pulling off his shirt at the convention did nothing to help libertarian candidates convert many of the undecided. When speaking himself, he shows a more staid and conventional demeanor.
The dude behind this site fills it with "scare quotes" (because we're too dumb to recognize the irony without them?) and uses phrases like "Criminal Climate Engineering Cover-up" in the title. Those are flags that it's there to preach to the choir. He does himself no favors with text like this:
Quote:
The science terms for what is occurring in our skies were of course completely avoided by Caldeira and Carnegie "Science" as such terms would lead people to hard science data and that was of course NOT the goal of the "study/survey".
"science terms" (???) and scare quotes on Carnegie 'Science' ? Somehow he fails to convince me that he'd have any ability to read 'hard science data' if he had access to it himself.
08-19-2016, 04:09 PM
Jacobtwersky
Re: 'Chemtrails' not real, say atmospheric science experts
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by arthunter:
...
and then I did notice long white trails across the sky ... I pointed to these and asked others what they were ... some said chemtrails, others said contrails ... I never worried about it too much ... Now, I don't see any of this, just a perfect blue sky ... to those who identified the trails as contrails, does the absence of any trails mean that there is no longer any airplane traffic?
To speak to the sometime absence and sometime presence of trails in the sky, the way I've always understood it is that just like you can only see your breath under certain atmospheric conditions, contrails are only visible under certain atmospheric conditions. Just because you can't see your breath on a hot day, doesn't mean the water vapor isn't being exhaled. So the same is true with jet engines. Water vapor is a by product of combustion so it only makes sense that the water vapor being expelled by internal combustion engines will sometimes be visible in the sky and under certain conditions the atmosphere can hold it there for long periods of time just like clouds.
