I just saw the movie, The Matrix, for like the 100th time. I could never figure out the difference between the blue pill and the red pill.
Printable View
I just saw the movie, The Matrix, for like the 100th time. I could never figure out the difference between the blue pill and the red pill.
I'd be glad to try to answer, but instead of just throwing out more concepts, let's try to build the understanding from your perspective.
Please describe ANY suspicions you may have as to what it might mean, and you can go anywhere, say anything as long or short as you want, don't worry about being right or wrong...
How about just finish these sentences:
Someone who is a blue pill person typically....
Then...
Someone who is a red pill person typically....
The blue pill was a forget what was said and just wake up in your bed as normal so as not to ever know anything about the Matrix, the red pill is to see how far down the rabbit hole you can get in the Matrix.
Check out the first few minutes of the flick and pay close attention of what is said when the blue or red pill are offered and your question should be answered... ...Unless of course you have chosen the blue pill in which case you will never know (supposedly as the story-line goes).
Here is the pill scene where Morpheus explains starting @ 3:35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ1_IbFFbzA
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
Ah! So, just to give only a few examples:
Blue Pill folks today in the U.S. continue to believe:
that guns are a good thing, that vaccines are a bad thing, that god is not a superstition, that a woman's place is in the bed and the kitchen, that responsible women do not want to vote, that African-Americans were better off during slavery, that the Confederate flag is not racist but about Southern loser pride, that marijuana is an evil narcotic that is a gateway to heroin, that the US won WWII, that there were WMDs in Iraq, that demonic possessions are real, that if a woman has sex before she is married then she is automatically a whore, that the world is flat and that all of those "photos" of men on the moon are Hollywood fabrications, that Climate Change is a HUGE liberal lie (for what reasons they never really say), that evolution is not real because everyone knows that god created us, that menstruation is a shameful stain of sin, that homosexuals are sinful perverts that will surely burn in hell (and that gay marriage is an abomination against god), that American exceptionalism is real because the American race is superior to all other nations on earth, etc, etc, etc...
Red Pill folks:
The opposite of the above or simply don't buy the lies.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Alex:
Thank you, Hotspring. Your post is illuminating, as always. (Although I must admit that I did have a clue and I was being a tiny bit facetious, perhaps.)
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
Wondering... What happens for you if people and situations are not in neat packages of your assumptions and opinions? How would your world unravel if this happened? What is a discussion in how and what you write if it's an 'attempt' to set people up as foolish who disagree with your assumptive thinking? How can there be peace when you mock others who have to agree with your viewpoints in order not to be marginalized or berated? Your viewpoints are your opinions and are not absolutes as you seem to want impose for others. I wonder if this is why Alex asked you first in knowing the pattern of where you 'go' when people respond to you.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
That's not welcome here.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
Deceit and baiting is beneath the standard of honor and dignity this category stands for, especially since the core point is the dedication to truth.
Considering the longstanding history and tone of your opinions on wacco, I was wrong to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were sincerely seeking a red pill person's opinion. Far exceeding my suggestion to pose 'suspicions' to your question, you had no trouble producing a long list of hardcore, closed-door opinions in the form of another soapbox reeking with superiority followed by a token 11 words of disdain to describe red pill people, then admitted your question was facetious.
This proves my reasons for starting this category specifically to limit it to sincerely openminded, non-combative questioners, or there's no hope of grounded and intelligent discourse. This will be the first and last intrusion by an inappropriate member into the Red Pill Roundtable.
But I'll leave you with this to consider since it's one of your biggest buttons and hurdle to understanding us -
The day you can articulately discuss the primary medical issues that the most intelligent anti-vaxxers find disturbing enough to motivate them to refuse to inject their kids no matter what personal price or inconvenience and explain in detail why this evidence is so dire, valid and convincing, is the day you'll begin to understand what open minded means, and how much courage it takes to refuse to ignore contradictions to your ego's sacred beliefs.
Truth is imperceptible without first weeding the lies and liars out of the way.
I'm going to pile on Edward too for that post, with a slightly different slant.
The idea of "taking the red pill" is that of becoming aware that the common reality, the beliefs that "everyone" shares, are not necessarily true. But the list of beliefs Edward presented that represent "the blue pill", while they may be those of some Americans, are certainly not the beliefs of a large majority of our friends and neighbors in Sonoma County, especially not those of most of the people on this forum, and largely not those one hears on most of the media. Except for belief in God, I think it fair to say that what Edward calls the "red pill folks" are most of the people we know and those we know about through our favorite films and television programs.
And that doesn't seem to me to be accurate to the spirit of "taking the red pill". As others have mentioned, there are several other reasons to criticize the post, but I just wanted to point out what I see as a fundamental illogic.
Thank you for your post, Fred.
There are clearly 3 Blue Pill perceptions/values that are indeed widely shared amongst our "Conscious Community," including right here on wacco:
1. that guns are a good thing, 2. that vaccines are a bad thing, 3. that god is not a superstition... 4. that the Confederate flag is not racist but about Southern loser pride...
There is at least one Wacco who essentially defended the confederate flag. There are more if you include all of the "Likes" that poster got in response to his confederate sympathies. Don't take my word for it, search right now on the wacco list and you'll see it for yourself.
As a matter of fact, I deliberately placed the first three topics at the beginning precisely because they are widely supported here on the Wacco List by most fellow Waccovites.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by phredo:
all opinions are valuable and I'm not into classifying and labeling people at a time when we really need tolerance and unity, so forgive me if I ignore most of this ...
I only join in to share a fun fact from the Matrix movie .... did you know that Neo's passport in the movie expires on Sept. 11, 2001?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Neo-Passport.png
what a coincidence, eh?
I beg to differ. I don't believe that those values are "widely" shared here. I'd guess (although it's true I have no objective knowledge) : 10% on #1, 20% on #2, 75% on #3, and 10% on #4. You spend more time here than I do, so feel free to correct me. And I think you are correct; these are probably the only values in your long list that would find any adherence.
By the way, in my opinion those four values are, or should be, difficult for anyone to have a good/bad black or white attitude on. Except for a total pacifist, a gun may have good or bad uses. Vaccines are appropriate for some diseases but perhaps not for every disease for which a vaccine has been invented, and a situation where a given vaccine should be mandated is always a judgement call involving multiple factors. "God" can have many different meanings, and highly intelligent people claim some sort of belief. Who knows what any particular Southerner thinks about the Confederate flag, besides that she might prefer not having some Northerner or other thought cop claiming to know what she thinks about it?
By lumping those values which some people on the forum question in with the other values you list, most of which anyone here would object to, you attempt to create guilt by association. Of course you have the right to say anything you want, but my impression (again, correct me if I'm wrong) is that the Red Pill Roundtable is intended to be a place where somewhat marginal ideas can be safely and productively discussed, not made the subject of ridicule or summarily dismissed in a block. Probably many people here would be happy to discuss legitimate and illegitimate uses of guns, the proper use of vaccines, God, or the attitudes of Southerners, but your comment did not seem to genuinely invite discussion and, in fact, seemed to discourage and impede it. And, again, correct me if you disagree.
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
Making blanket statements like:
Shows me more where Edward Mendoza's thoughts are at at a moment in time than any actual useable (to me) information.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Edward Mendoza:
However that being said, I think I get the gist of what Edward Mendoza was getting at after:Edward (and all too) I think that is a narrow and woefully inaccurate way of defining “Blue Pill” 'perceptions/values' etc.Quote:
There are clearly 3 Blue Pill perceptions/values that are indeed widely shared amongst our "Conscious Community," including right here on wacco:
1. that guns are a good thing, 2. that vaccines are a bad thing, 3. that god is not a superstition... 4. that the Confederate flag is not racist but about Southern loser pride...
Edward, I think you may want to go further 'down the rabbit hole' and take a really open-minded look into the mirror.
Depending on 'how far down the rabbit hole' A “Red Pill” taker is...
… In that 'rabbit hole' (as I perceive myself in) I am wondering how literally to take the script of the movie “The Matrix”; the part that essentially says: not to ever know anything about “The Matrix”
I wonder if; once one has taken the 'Blue Pill' after they had the chance to choose between Red or Blue pill (that) if they are destined to 'never' knowing... ...(?)...
...I am guessing that, most likely destine to not 'knowing'.
At this point where I (think) I am at 'down the rabbit hole', I pose the following questions:
Are guns “bad”?... Considering that guns were made to kill...
...Is killing in all circumstances 'bad'?... ...Has anyone here ever eaten meat, fish (including shellfish), or cut lettuce before it goes to seed?... ...If yes, is not any of those things “killing”?... ...Are knives “bad”?
Are all vaccines 'good' and absolutely harmless to everyone or are they “bad” because they have killed, disabled, or maimed anyone?
“God”?... ...“Superstition”?... ...”Confederate flag” symbol of racism?
Answer to all is same: Not necessarily.
Once so far 'down the rabbit hole' I realize that everything has place in time and space whereas it has a particular context which makes the topic of interest so intriguing to me because much like in the movie “The Matrix” is fluid and in an seemingly paradoxical state of 'absolute' continuously changing where the line between 'good and bad' is 'liquid' and like liquids that are moving in very close proximity like oil and water they can blend, flip, settle and stratify only to continue changing placement and 'displacement':Yinyangv:.
Open our minds to the 'possibility' of being correct about something in the past and that same thing in a different time and space may be opposite; IOW, good then = bad now and visa verse and that which is now will not be in same time and or space for ever, :poof:or at least until there is a state where there is absolutely no matter.
the trick on the red pill side (ok, on any side, but currently we are positing that 'red pill' exists to keep minds open) is to be open, just not so much that any old wind will blow through. I think the red-pill side exists more to allow for discussion that accepts some premises that those of us a bit allergic to red find difficult to swallow. Without accepting those premises it's difficult to explore their logical outcome. And it's those consequences that the redpillers seem to find more worth discussing. and sure, it's not really fair for me to characterize since i'm not much for red.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by Hotspring 44:
I'm really going to disagree with you strongly on this one, Peter!
For starters, I think that red is a pretty color. I like it a lot, even more than pink, which is saying something because I'm a member of the LGBTQQI(???) community. (That's a stereotype so I apologize if it was politically incorrect.)
Second, I think blue is a pretty color too! Saying that blue is the color of the right wing or the democrats or the fascists, or the mainstream, or... well, I just get confused sometimes. I'm not one for discriminating (well, that's relative, actually. It really depends). But I absolutely refuse to discriminate against colors, which is serious business; just ask the big designers and fashionistas, like the late Versace, etc. (Well, you can't ask Versace anymore but there are plenty of living ones around that I'm sure you can drink an existentialist espresso with on a sidewalk cafe in Paris. And no, Sartre, Camus, de Beauvoir are not around anymore but that is irrelevant.)
Third, the abstract and surrealist metaphor of Alice and Wonderland is appropriate in describing the Red Pill (and going down the wabbit hole) because when you begin to push the boundaries of human perception and knowledge, everything begins to "bend" and warp, regarding our values, life, occupations, civilization, law, personal lifestyles, etc.
Fourth, I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about. I don't know anything at all, actually. Yes, sure, I have a master's in Political Science, I sojourned in Europe for 10 years (Spain and Denmark), I'm a hubby and a pappy, I'm atheist, I was an anarchist for about 25 years or more, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything at all. I've done a lot of different things throughout my long, complicated life and I've enjoyed many different opportunities and adventures that most people never have but, like Socrates said, "All I know is that I know nothing."
Fifth, the most important point, by far, that I want to make is... oh, I forgot what I was talking about. Oh well, I think I'm going to the SRJC library's cafe to get a can of coconut water, if they've gotten any in stock. Yummy!
Sixth, hugs and kisses to all!
Namaste
PS: I watched the movie, "Contact," with my daughter yesterday and it was really cool. I strongly recommend it. It is based on a novel written by Carl Sagan. Ta ta!
Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by podfish: