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Actually no I do not want bike lanes along Highway 116. This is quite frequently a motorist dominated thoroughfare with harried commuters. My experience of bikers and the "biking culture" is not a great one when it comes to sharing the road. I've been literally forced off the road and put at risk personally (as well as in danger of an accident hurting bikers) by rude bikers who simply ignore the rules.
The issue for me is one of safety and safety training, and also one of respect. Unfortunately I've not seen much of either of these 3 elements yet in biking culture, but to be fair I've also been told by my biking cousin that the real risk comes from biking tourists with little experience or training. These are the ones, he says, who violate safety rules,. spread out in threes over narrow roads with no oncoming visibility, etc. I assume these groups are led by "somebody local:" so I would like to know who these tour leaders are that put us all at risk?
I'd love a perfect world where bikers and motorists share a busy thoroughfare like 116, but unless and until training, safety and respect are part of the program, I am "voting no." Do I expect blowback from this post--yes. Let the dialogue begin!
IF bicycle riders would share the road that would be one thing, however, they don't. At least not for the most part. Countless times groups of them hog the road, while going nowhere near the speed limit, and seem to especially LOVE riding 2 or 3 abreast on a curve. Dangerous for me and them. And I have small compact! I often have to say to them, "share the road!" I can't begin to support spending a million bux on a project that does not justify its cost nor safety benefits to me.
lucky for you if you follow the car rules you can crush bike riders at will, with only a dent or two. there is no danger to you! however if there was a bike lane, and lets be clear, car parking places would be removed, you might suffer consequences if you hit a bicyclist (if they were in their lane). is this what you're afraid of? or perhaps it is the loss of parking?
then again maybe you are writing about rural county roads where recreational cyclists group together for safety. no worry to you then, that's not where these bike lanes are proposed : )
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Posted in reply to the post by Willow:
The County got a grant to study feasibility of creating a MUP on old railroad lines between Petaluma and Sebastopol. This proposed pathway would alleviate any concerns about bicycles on 116- at least between these two trail points.
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Posted in reply to the post by Willow:
it's not always about danger - maybe it's the expense of dent repair. On that note, why, as a british-heritage country, don't we share the awesome job description of 'panel beater' with other parts of the english speaking world??? 'body shop' sounds tawdry, anyway.Quote:
Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
hmmm if you're bringing up the cost of dent repair that makes me wonder if bike riders will now have to have liability coverage? dents and medical.:waccosun:
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
I think CA's rules of the road need to be clarified & simplified.
It's legal to walk out on the street and cars have to stop, but we pay for crosswalks & pedestrian lights. Why? is this to confuse everyone?
Why do we bother paying for painting solid white lines on the road, if legally they mean nothing?
I regularly see bicyclists operating (and not just kids) illegally using sidewalks, wrong sides of the road, lack of signalling, and general assumption that they're right because they don't have a steel box around them. There's a (I am assuming) mentally disturbed gentleman in the Sebastopol area that will actually swerve into traffic and kick at cars purposefully. We require a test & license to drive a steel box, but don't provide basic public education for riding a bike next to them?
Thought I would begin by indicating the "actual" rules for the road re-bicycles. This from the CDMV.
So legally speaking and regardless your feelings about whether or not you feel bicycles have the same rights as motor vehicles, it is the law my friends. And if bicycles are in your way, so be it, as they have the legal right to do so.
- Bicycle riders on public roads have the same rights and responsibilities as motorists, and are subject to the same rules and regulations. Refer to the California Driver Handbook to become familiar with these rules.
- Motorists must look carefully for bicyclists before turning left or right, merging into bicycle lanes, and opening doors next to moving traffic. Respect the right-of-way of bicyclists because they are entitled to share the road with you.
I am saddened that some postings indicated a dislike for creating a safer means for bicycles along 116. I would have been riding to work (Petaluma) long ago and if you travel much on Stony Point road, you can see it is very safe for cyclists since the shoulder is about 5' wide.
We really should encourage human powered transportation, especially around town.
Rud
years ago i learned how inexpensive insurance for a motorbike is. when we travel light we do so much less harm in the world.
i'm serious about the reduction in parking places. bike lanes through sebtown have been laid out using the existing pavement area. my understanding is that they haven't been painted because leaders understand that the loss of parking places would probably cost them reelection and new council members would paint the car parking back. cars win again!
another point; the reason bicyclists ride all over the place including sidewalks is because we are trying to stay alive. the safest way to ride is to understand you are invisible. cars kill and maim turning/merging right, left, and going straight ahead, or just opening the door after you park. if you don't drive away and you're not drunk or high the simple statement, "didn't see them", avoids all legal consequence. and why would you see them? bicyclists can't hurt you and there are plenty of other cars which could hurt you on the road. car drivers are just trying to survive too!
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Posted in reply to the post by Willow:
it's sometimes a case of selective reading. Bicycle riders on public roads have the same rights...as motorists. They conveniently forget the words "and responsibilities". I got into a discussion with a cyclist a few months back, and discussed the riding habit of blocking. This is where the cyclist hears a motor vehicle coming up, then veers left into the middle of the lane to intentionally block them (at MUCH slower speed), then decide when to pull over and let the motorist pass.
I commented that drivers like me already expect/anticipate that maneuver. I simply appreciate them not using that technique, but by allowing me by, I'm able to move clear of their path and not endanger them.
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Posted in reply to the post by rudimentary:
I just watched a guy in spandex kicking a car he was riding next to. He had been riding super slow blocking traffic and when a car finally tried to pull around him slowly he started kicking the side of it. I don't want bikers on 116 at all. They are rude dangerous and a safety issue.
funny, I feel that way about cars a lot of the timeQuote:
Posted in reply to the post by Attic:
What we could use is more bike paths well away from traffic. I also second the thought that all bicycle riders should have liability coverage and be required to carry proof of insurance. They should also be required to have a license to ride and a plate to identify themselves. More then half the bikers I have encountered are arrogant and don't follow the rules. If they want to use main thoroughfares we should require that they follow all the same regulations that motorist do, including being insured.
how much do you think liability insurance for a bike rider would cost? are you worried that when you slow for a cyclist an inattentive driver behind you might rear end you? of course that accident would be their fault, not the cyclist. it seems that mostly you are irritated when you have to slow down and that you don't follow the three foot rule.
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Posted in reply to the post by Attic:
I do not mind slowing for bikers. It is good that they choose this form of transportation considering global warming. However I do feel some irritation with the aggressive attitudes of bikers these days and the fact that they cannot be identified so they feel free to abuse those around them. I believe the solution is to extend the bike trails and get them off the main thoroughfares and out of higher speed traffic. I think bicyclist should be held accountable for injuries and accidents just like everyone else on the road. They should also be required to have plates for identification so they can be found by authorities when accountable for unsafe behavior on public roads.
California needs to take some lessons from other states like Colorado who have thousands of miles of off road paved bike trails. Most of these trails follow creeks and utility easements, they are also wide enough (about 8 feet wide) for bicycles, roller bladders and walkers to comfortably use. The bikers politely say something like "behind you" when they pass a slower moving walker. I was shocked when I moved to California and saw that most "bike trails" were no more than some lines painted on their busy country and city streets.
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Posted in reply to the post by Attic:
Overall, I think the interface of bikes and autos on our country roads is melding a little better. I rode a bicycle as my primary form of transportation for the first 35 years of my life (granted, traffic was about 50% of what it is now). I never felt hostility from drivers at that time and was never injured. We had careful safety training for both cyclists and pedestrians; such as "wear white at night", etc.
This is a whole new world of cyclists; feeling entitled, risking both themselves and others. At least they are more visible lately wearing bright colors. I wish we could just keep them off dangerous winding country roads (narrow, blind curves, no shoulder, etc) And get them to obey driving laws. And what about their graffiti on the streets? Is that another entitlement? It's only a matter of time before other bike riders get squashed on a blind curve, Like the death on Bohemian Hiwy) ruining both their own and vehicle driver's lives.
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
the only person killed by a cyclist (that i am aware of), in the last few years in sonoma county, was a jogger on a bike trail. i believe the bike rider was going over 15 mph and the jogger was wearing headphones and making a u turn just as the bike was passing them. whats your judgement?
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Posted in reply to the post by Attic:
recreational cycling is growing. and west county roads are a draw. do you know what happened in the accident you refer too? it seems that most cyclist deaths are either drunks not seeing them, regular drivers not seeing the cyclist when making a left or right, or cyclist error, like the old man who was turning around on the blind curve near bodega bay.
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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg:
My experience is that when bikes are going both ways and I'm walking on the same path, the bikes come too close to me and frighten me. Occasionally when they ring a little bell or say 'on your left' they are beside you as the words come out. I find that frightening and have stopped walking on paths where bikes are. I don't think eight feet is enough. I can forget, and occasionally step towards the middle of the path or go to make a u-turn and I don't listen to music or books while walking. My wish is to have one path for bikes, and one for pedestrians. Yeah, I know that will never happen. As far as 116, I don't walk there and I think bikes are fine.....Sandy
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Posted in reply to the post by Martin:
The death I am referring to occured on Bohemian Highway between Camp Meeker and Occidental. A rider was squashed by a large gravel or other large truck on a blind curve in that area a few years ago. Both were traveling in the same direction.
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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:
yow thats a terrifying one. reads like it was the truck drivers error in challenging road lanes. kind of like the pedestrians run over on 116 and 12 in crosswalks as the sun is setting or rising in drivers eyes. we all share the road. drivers have the death machines.
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Posted in reply to the post by Dorothy Friberg: