Tiny Houses explored

I agree that we need to not alienate anyone involved in our conscious community by casting blanket statements. We need all of the support we can get for this community.

Sebastopol is a model for sustainable, conscious community for the entire country. It is a haven for healings arts, creative arts, environmental activism, conscious parenting, spiritual awakening, ecstatic dance, organic farming, and much more. There are plenty of other projects that could go up in our vicinity that would expand and sustain this vision while protecting our land and our diverse community. Sebastopol is already a magnet drawing the right kind of people. But it will always draw the tycoons who want to exploit this sacredness for a profit.

If this community is sacred to you, you may have to get involved in keeping the businesses that don’t care about our land or our community vision from gradually taking Sebastopol off it’s course. The heartbeat of this community lies with a sacred group of individuals, many of whom can barely afford to live in Sebastopol anymore, or have already moved to Santa Rosa for this reason.

Perhaps we need to think about affordable housing for Sebastopol. Ideas such as finding a piece of land where we can build an intentional community of tiny houses. The heartbeat of Sebastopol’s sustainable community lies in the continual rising of consciousness of our community members. Moving from looking out for ourselves, to looking out for our tribe, to looking out for everyone, especially those who through no fault of their own can no longer afford to live in their own village.

Blessings,
Christine Dufond

I have long thought that Sebtown should consider a small house development with houses in the 400 to 800 sq foot range with community open space and gardens with not a lot of private space around the houses (read lawns) but lots of public space. This could be for a combination of young people desiring to buy and live in Sebtown, and retired folks (like me) who may want to downsize.

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Posted in reply to the post by norcalredtail:

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Perhaps we need to think about affordable housing for Sebastopol. Ideas such as finding a piece of land where we can build an intentional community of tiny houses. The heartbeat of Sebastopol’s sustainable community lies in the continual rising of consciousness of our community members. Moving from looking out for ourselves, to looking out for our tribe, to looking out for everyone, especially those who through no fault of their own can no longer afford to live in their own village.

Blessings,
Christine Dufond

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I think an affordable tiny house community is a very good idea and I would like to belong to such a group if and when it exists.

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Posted in reply to the post by Richard Nichols:

I have long thought that Sebtown should consider a small house development with houses in the 400 to 800 sq foot range with community open space and gardens with not a lot of private space around the houses (read lawns) but lots of public space. This could be for a combination of young people desiring to buy and live in Sebtown, and retired folks (like me) who may want to downsize.

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Ting houses clearly respond to high rents & costs of the housing market. I've been in a few, and both times they were sited illegally. One behind the main house, and surreptitiously (illegally) tapped into the local sewer. The other one on a big rural property, with the sewage going into a redwood box. The other problem is I don't think they're made to code, as for instance mobile homes are made.

I saw recently a high rise building is being built in NYC with small 400 sf "affordable" apts, which are pre fab & slid in by a crane.

There are many pressures against tiny houses: they don't comply with zoning or codes, and associated things like providing parking, paying taxes, providing for schools, etc. Having a wish for tiny houses must address these issues, or they'll never happen, except illegally.

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Posted in reply to the post by Tinkerbell:

I think an affordable tiny house community is a very good idea and I would like to belong to such a group if and when it exists.

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this is all true. i understand tiny houses as custom movable homes, aka hand built trailers or manufactured homes. they are usually built to a higher standard than a travel trailer or manufactured home. they would be a positive addition to any trailer park. unfortunately these kind of affordable housing options have been zoned and fee'd out of development potential and are outlawed on residential property (there is a caregiver exemption, with to code septic/sewer ect.). and the ones that do exist are being shut down, like village park just east of economically exclusive sebtoon. i cringe when the county talks affordable housing, we spend so much money eliminating it. i honor those brave enough to risk providing a place for a tiny house/trailer/rv where someone can live affordably. true hero's of community, please honor them when neighbors and/or local government goons order the trailer trash out. its just how this world works...!

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

Ting houses clearly respond to high rents & costs of the housing market. I've been in a few, and both times they were sited illegally. One behind the main house, and surreptitiously (illegally) tapped into the local sewer. The other one on a big rural property, with the sewage going into a redwood box. The other problem is I don't think they're made to code, as for instance mobile homes are made.

I saw recently a high rise building is being built in NYC with small 400 sf "affordable" apts, which are pre fab & slid in by a crane.

There are many pressures against tiny houses: they don't comply with zoning or codes, and associated things like providing parking, paying taxes, providing for schools, etc. Having a wish for tiny houses must address these issues, or they'll never happen, except illegally.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

i cringe when the county talks affordable housing, we spend so much money eliminating it.

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absolutely right.

there's a weird disconnect I see in a lot of public policy. I see it as a failure to follow through with the obvious logical implications of an idea. To support "affordable housing" means accepting that low-income people will be living in your community. Maybe in more visible ways, and in larger groups. And need services like non-boutique food sources, and schools. And infrastructure like roads. Quelle horreur, I know!

Even worse is the discussion about whether 'Obamacare' was affordable for the country, especially when it took the turn that maybe the medical system couldn't handle having so many people, so giving more people insurance was a bad idea. I never did hear anyone say that some people just shouldn't have medical care, but there's no other outcome from the policies they were/are advocating.

I have always been a proponent of strict agricultural zoning that disallows the proliferation of housing. Why? it is the only way to save this land and keep Sonoma County from looking like Contra Costa with helter skelter development. Remember, whatever you do with zoning will be exploited by someone wanting to make a buck.

Now, you can have a primary residence, second unit and guest house on one parcel if you meet sanitation requirements and lot size. Are we to also add small houses? It has always been the thought that "affordable housing" should be in cities and sewered areas where density could be increased.

Lastly, there has been a body of planning law in California developed over the last forty years that is complicated and limiting. You can't just make something up and do it. It takes General Plan and Zoning compliance which takes environmental determination , all which takes years. So, government needs to make space available without collapsing the agricultural base. That is still primarily in cities and sewered areas.

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...2_13-54-14.png

I've split of the Tiny House conversation that sprouted out of the Dairyman Winery proposal thread into this new thread (Tiny Houses explored).

Please use this new thread to continue to conversation regarding all aspects of Tiny Houses. In addition to topics already mentioned (zoning, sewer access, etc.) other areas of interest include: Personal experiences of living in a tiny house or hosting one on your property or having one show up near your property, design features, differences from a trailer, organizing to form a TH park/community, etc.

I think Tiny Houses are an important new development in housing that have yet to be fully integrated into our community both from a local government considerations and lifestyle options.

Please share your experiences, questions and concerns with us!

I do not have any prejudice against small houses. The issues I raise are real in the government planning organizations plus there are economic factors-e.g with the price of land in Sonoma County, who is going to build (install) a small house? I do have extreme prejudice in preserving the zoning and General Plan policies. That includes maintaining large lot zoning in Ag Districts and prohibiting commercial, camp grounds in part, the intrusion of residential, and more. The General Plan is purposefully restrictive and has lead to large lot zoning and blocks of land for agriculture. It disallows urban intrusion and housing beyond primary and secondary units. There are some allowances for "farm worker" housing and that follows its own rules. (The Sonoma County Zoning Code is on line.)

In most unincorporated areas, one can have a second unit up to 840 square feet. It may be that a small house would fit this category. It is necessary to have one and one-half acres if on a well and septic. That is in order to achieve mandated sit-backs from property line, and well from septic and preserve expansion area for septic. A guest house by definition does not have a kitchen. So, where does a small house fit? By zoning, it would have to be a second unit I believe.

The other alternative is to have the County (or a City) recognize small houses in areas zones R-3 or high density as an alternative to the condo or townhouse that is usually found in these zones. That zoning is limited to sewered areas and limited in the County period. It needs to be sewered as high density implies a lot of human waste. You also have the problem of required infrastructure improvements like roads, water and the mitigation fees required by the County. So, a disbursed model is limited by definition. A high density model would be like a campground or condo complex with sewer but none are currently developed.

So right now, there is no special allowance for small houses within the County. You can certainly buy a parcel and move one in as your primary residence if it meets all the other County requirements for sewage disposal and water. In sewered areas like Guerneville and Forestville it is theoretically possible. However, land is not as affordable as many would like. In order to get any special changes in the Ordinances for small houses, the Board of Supervisors would have to agree and then change their own rules. This is a lengthy process. A City is preferred, easier, because they have sewer and water and more developable territory. That is, cities are planned for development.

Lastly, buyer beware as there is no real allowance for small houses that I am aware of in Sonoma County. There is nothing to say you can't park on a friends property but if Zoning Abatement shows up, you're most likely screwed. Someone next door with a million dollar honker mansion may not want a little house showing up on their doorstep. Best would be to convince a city to allow a developer to build a park wherein small houses could be built or placed. A small house subdivision. Rest assured, some developer will jump at the chance but at the end of the day, you'll be paying more than you anticipated.

I would love to hear ideas on how we can do this with out collapsing the General Plan and intruding into Ag land and in a way that makes sense and is affordable.

https://www.sonoma-county.org/prmd/d...ning/index.htm

Above is the link to the Sonoma County Zoning Code. All development has to follow this code. You can just read the Definitions in 26-140-02 to get a flavor.

Regardless of opinion or what one thinks is right, low or high ground, you must follow the code in development. So, if special dispensation is given to "small houses" it fits in the code or the code has to be changed. Change means consistency with the General Plan (also found online). All of this has been tested in numerous legal battles. In brevity, the courts have found that "need" is not appropriate in planning. Rather, it is how big is the bread box and are the laws applied equally.

Each city has their own laws separate from the County.

Check out Petaluma Avenue Homes, corner of P Ave and Walker. If you've got a limited income you may qualify.

You said " neighbors and/or local government goons" ... just slightly judgmental and name calling of those who represent the public good. Affordable housing is possible only when you work with those you objectify. Would you want to design and build a $300k house, and have a tiny house move in 5' from your fence, playing loud music and smoking dope day and night, having their sewage go under your fence?. We live in a culture of agreement with codes and rules that are in the best interest of all.

Tiny houses are adorable, and often made by craftspeople. However, face reality. You could put a tiny house out in the middle of nowhere in Lake County and no one would mind. Put it within the city limits of Sebastopol, or most places in Sonoma County, and it's a different story. These are more appealing areas, with higher standards, more amenities, and higher costs.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

this is all true. i understand tiny houses as custom movable homes, aka hand built trailers or manufactured homes. they are usually built to a higher standard than a travel trailer or manufactured home. they would be a positive addition to any trailer park. unfortunately these kind of affordable housing options have been zoned and fee'd out of development potential and are outlawed on residential property (there is a caregiver exemption, with to code septic/sewer ect.). and the ones that do exist are being shut down, like village park just east of economically exclusive sebtoon. i cringe when the county talks affordable housing, we spend so much money eliminating it. i honor those brave enough to risk providing a place for a tiny house/trailer/rv where someone can live affordably. true hero's of community, please honor them when neighbors and/or local government goons order the trailer trash out. its just how this world works...!

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Funny thing, I more or less started this conversation out of some comment in the Dairyman thread, but I wasn't talking about tiny houses (like the concept) but about a small house project house of maybe 600 to 800 feet, clustered around community open space and shared gardens and patios with only a small bit of private outdoor space. This perhaps would be affordable to younger people who want to live in our great town, and to retired folks who want to downsize.

Tiny houses and this concept oare different critters.

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...2_13-54-14.png

I've split of the Tiny House conversation that sprouted out of the Dairyman Winery proposal thread into this new thread (Tiny Houses explored).

Please use this new thread to continue to conversation regarding all aspects of Tiny Houses. In addition to topics already mentioned (zoning, sewer access, etc.) other areas of interest include: Personal experiences of living in a tiny house or hosting one on your property or having one show up near your property, design features, differences from a trailer, organizing to form a TH park/community, etc.

I think Tiny Houses are an important new development in housing that have yet to be fully integrated into our community both from a local government considerations and lifestyle options.

Please share your experiences, questions and concerns with us!

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Just perhaps a ignorant question; since the majority of the tiny houses I have seen are built on a mobile format, read trailer,; it is also my understanding that they have holding tanks much like an RV which would technically make them an RV. Would that not circumvent some of the city, county zoning regulations. They are not terminate structures. So conceivably a camp ground, RV park business model would work if someone could develop their private land with the infrastructure to support such a community, like a private members only development. Could, would that circumvent some of the zoning issues? I personally would love to live in a tiny home in a collective community. Perhaps I am nieve and this is a stupid question.

reads like you had a very bad experience. there are a lot of rv,s, trailers, tiny houses, yurts, sheds, garages and unpermitted additions providing housing, often the most affordable, all over the place. when they are shut down the reasons include the nasty example you give, and lots of others generally described as economic segregation or revenge. it takes a lot of courage for a landowner or tenant to step outside the regulatory structure and provide housing. while the regulatory structure is described a "public good" by those its working for, my experience is that keeping the riffraff out and generating revenue for government and industry are more fundamental in its formulation.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy;18812 8:

You said " neighbors and/or local government goons" ... just slightly judgmental and name calling of those who represent the public good. Affordable housing is possible only when you work with those you objectify. Would you want to design and build a $300k house, and have a tiny house move in 5' from your fence, playing loud music and smoking dope day and night, having their sewage go under your fence?. We live in a culture of agreement with codes and rules that are in the best interest of all.

Tiny houses are adorable, and often made by craftspeople. However, face reality. You could put a tiny house out in the middle of nowhere in Lake County and no one would mind. Put it within the city limits of Sebastopol, or most places in Sonoma County, and it's a different story. These are more appealing areas, with higher standards, more amenities, and higher costs.

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i'm all for ag land and reducing our ecological footprint. how bout the county come up with some regs to allow alternative development? it is not necessary to flush our shit into a hole in the ground or use a lot of electricity. and cars, why not really incentivise getting out of our steel life crushers by tying that to a place to live? the new greywater code is just another puny toss to the 21st century challenge of figuring out how to live well sustainably. this challenge will be met by innovators who look beyond laws designed to chain us to our earth destructive tendencies. seems like sooner rather than later we will all need to do this.

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Posted in reply to the post by Ernieman:

I do not have any prejudice against small houses. T...

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Tommy's comments are knowledgeable and well said.

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Posted in reply to the post by tommy:

You said " neighbors and/or local government goons" ... just slightly judgmental and name calling of those who represent the public good...

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Posted in reply to the post by luke32:

Check out Petaluma Avenue Homes, corner of P Ave and Walker. If you've got a limited income you may qualify.

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Petaluma Avenue Homes is a lovely affordable housing development with lots of nice folks living there, but anyone considering applying to live there should be aware of this caveat: While they describe it as "cohousing" it really isn't. It does have some design aspects of cohousing (a nice "common house", a central courtyard the apartments face onto, etc.), but it is not owned by the tenants, was not designed by them, is not run by them, and most of them have little or no interest in the sort of community involvement that's essential to real cohousing. If all of that's okay with you, it is a dandy place to live; just don't buy the "cohousing" come-on so you won't be disappointed like some have been.

It seems that there is already a plan in motion for a tiny house community in Cotati. You can get on their email list to get updates about it:

www.fourlightshouses.com

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Posted in reply to the post by Richard Nichols:

Funny thing, I more or less started this conversation out of some comment in the Dairyman thread, but I wasn't talking about tiny houses (like the concept) but about a small house project house of maybe 600 to 800 feet, clustered around community open space and shared gardens and patios with only a small bit of private outdoor space. This perhaps would be affordable to younger people who want to live in our great town, and to retired folks who want to downsize.

Tiny houses and this concept oare different critters.

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Tiny houses are an innovative way to circumvent zoning & building codes, & dramatically reduce the cost of housing.

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Posted in reply to the post by rossmen:

reads like you had a very bad experience. there are a lot of rv,s, trailers, tiny houses, yurts, sheds, garages and unpermitted additions providing housing, often the most affordable, all over the place. when they are shut down the reasons include the nasty example you give, and lots of others generally described as economic segregation or revenge. it takes a lot of courage for a landowner or tenant to step outside the regulatory structure and provide housing. while the regulatory structure is described a "public good" by those its working for, my experience is that keeping the riffraff out and generating revenue for government and industry are more fundamental in its formulation.

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The PD has picked up the rising interest in Tiny Homes:

https://img194.imageshack.us/img194/...1206081330.png
Sebastopol developer has big plans for tiny homes

BY RICHARD SHEPARD
SPECIAL TO TOWNS
February 23, 2015, 11:07AM

https://www.waccobb.net/forums/wacco...4_11-05-40.png

There’s a new cottage industry sprouting up outside of Sebastopol, and it doesn’t resemble the strip-mall condos or McMansions of past years. It’s a new tiny house village that will fit the needs of people with small families who care about economy and energy-efficiency.

Of course, Sebastopol resident and tiny house guru Jay Shafer is on the forefront.

“Building a tiny house village has been a dream of mine for the past 10 years,” says Shafer. “The plan is to have dozens of tiny houses arranged around a common-use building in a park-like environment. The houses will be designed for one- or two-person households, and each cottage, though similar in design, will have a unique look or style.”

For the past year, Shafer has been in discussion with Sonoma County’s zoning department about building the tiny house village and has recently narrowed his search to several properties just outside of Sebastopol.

“The officials seem to love the idea as much as we do,” he said. “Since it would be near the downtown area, bikes would be a viable form of transportation for work and shopping. Several covered bike racks will be provided.

“In many ways, tiny houses work best in a group, with shared amenities. I’ve used the same design principles that go into each of my tiny house designs to create an environment that feels contained but not confining, vibrant but not at all crowded.”

The village will be zoned as an RV park, but the setting will be drastically different from the typical trailer park.

Its structure would draw from the co-op model, with residents owning their portable houses and the parcels they reside on and paying a monthly fee to maintain the common facilities. Community rules will be in place to keep the peace regarding pets, stereos, TVs and other potential annoyances.

Continues here.

:idea: Brilliant!! I am thrilled to see these tiny houses come front and center in Peacetown! YAY! Tiny is just what we need in our tiny town, and the infrastructure and laws to make them work peacefully into the scene. I am happy to have the opportunity to express my enthusiasm for a village here, and access to the tiny houses on a more individual/solitary basis. I see great possibilities for retired people, students, those with some limitations in ADL, many who would never want or work for a larger house with property.
The photos make me want to take a tour!
Rev. BE :heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Barry:

...Please use this new thread to continue to conversation regarding all aspects of Tiny Houses. ...

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Mrs. Pole and I have been talking about a tiny house for a while now. We are decaying boomers with little savings trying to figure out where we shall spend our last couple of decades, and the idea of a tiny house somewhere in NorCal would be ideal. We've been pondering various friends who own property here as to whether they would or could be willing to let us drop a house, as chattel, on their property in exchange for extra income.

We are still exploring, and found these large tiny houses to be of particular appeal: https://wheelhaus.com

The idea of a community of smaller dwellings sounds wonderful.

And then we saw this:

https://www.ifc.com/portlandia/video...dia-microhouse

:wink::Yinyangv::heart:

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Posted in reply to the post by Ted Pole:

And then we saw this: https://www.ifc.com/portlandia/videos/portlandia-microhouse

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That was so funny! I just spent 20 minutes I didn't have watching their other clips....
Even though I love and will have my own tiny house soon, it doesn't mean we can't take a tiny joke!
:thumbsup:

Not sure watching TV adds much to discussion. On the other hand, the City of Sebastopol, working with West County Community Services is in the process of housing homeless in used travel trailers in Park Village on Rt 12. While we have had a few usable trailers donated, we still need trailers. Trailers should be 25 + ft long & everything should be working. Minor problems acceptable. Please contact us at: [email protected] or call: 707-332-4456.

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Posted in reply to the post by terijane:

That was so funny! I just spent 20 minutes I didn't have watching their other clips....
Even though I love and will have my own tiny house soon, it doesn't mean we can't take a tiny joke!
:thumbsup:

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Hi, I'm looking for an architect who might be interested in collaborating on shipping container project.
This would be for temporary housing, code-approved, self-powered, self-contained(mostly).
Looking to create design together, build one and see where it takes us.
Message me here on Wacco please.

Thanks,
Kane

Hi Kane,
I've helped design and build straw bale and tiny homes and have thought about using shipping containers. I have a few ideas. Love talk to you about doing this.
Give me a call or email.
Thanks.
Bob

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Posted in reply to the post by kane:

Hi, I'm looking for an architect who might be interested in collaborating on shipping container project.
This would be for temporary housing, code-approved, self-powered, self-contained(mostly).
Looking to create design together, build one and see where it takes us.
Message me here on Wacco please.

Thanks,
Kane

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